/lit/ - Literature

>God gave them over to a reprobate mind
wat mean

>>17550792
God stopped trying to stop them from falling to error because they were obstinate.
Sort of like with Nimrod when he decides to build the tower of Babel and God sends "a spirit of error" to him and his people.

>>17550785
It's exactly what it says. People who know of God turn towards vice when they ignore him

>>17550785
God created Man out of love, as the highest of earthly creation, able to move about and change the things of the earth, but also able to contemplate God, to know him and to love him. As God is the Creator of All things, he is Good in and of himself, and deserving all love; likewise, as he is All Good, there is no greater good for a creature than to know, praise, adore, and converse with God. Such was Man, that even as an earthly creature, made from dirt, God gave to him the highest of gifts. All that was asked of Man was obedience and love--an easy thing to give to God, who is All Good and whose commands are light and easy. Man was free to use the things of the earth, and was only forbidden from eating of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. Adam and Eve, following the deceit of Satan rather than the command of God, broke the friendship of God and made themselves--by justice--subjects of the Father of Lies. Repenting of this greatly, and confessing their sin, Adam and Eve accepted their just punishment of God, and God in turn promised the redemption of their seed.

But, since that sin, human nature itself has been broken. Every man and woman, in their nature, is corrupt and inclines towards sin and disobedience. Without the grace of God, we all fall into the most profound wickedness. Now, God loves Man, for God does not repent of anything he has made. God gives graces to all men in the hopes that they turn from their sins and return to love of Him, which is Man's greatest good. But, as men sin, they make themselves--by justices--more and more subject to Satan. In this, they make themselves less capable of recognizing and receiving the graces of God, they blind themselves to God's love and and his laws, they become confused in their reasoning, and they trust their lower faculties above their reasoning, so that the pleasures of the flesh overwhelm all logic. In this, they choose Satan as their master, rather than God--and Satan is beyond hateful, desiring nothing but the destruction and consumption of men's souls, and the mockery of God. God, for his part, allows this, for it is the free choice of Man.

So, in this passage, Paul describes the way of society when Men leave the commands of God. This has always been so, and so consequently we can see it plainly today, for almost all men have left the ways of God.

>>17550785
>even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature
I wish I were there to push their shit in

Pure exotericism. Getting blowjobs by the wives of other men and banging underage girls is the true spirituality. Proved and demonstrated by facts and intellectual intuition.

Romans 1:18–32 describes why God rightfully condemns humanity and some of what He has done about it. Humanity's fall is pictured as a downward progression. It starts with rejecting God as creator, refusing to see what can be known about Him by what He has made. We also reject that He is our provider and stop giving Him thanks. We worship His creation instead of Him. Finally, God acts by giving us over to the unchecked expression of our corrupt sexual desires and all other kinds of sin. In part, He expresses His wrath by giving us what we want and condemning us to suffer the painful consequences.

Paul has said that God, in His wrathful response to human ungodliness and unrighteous, gave humanity up to the unchecked expression of our sexual lust and impure desires. As a result, unrighteous human beings increasingly dishonored their bodies together (Romans 1:24).

Paul's words here are not a blanket condemnation of sexual desire and expression. God gave those things to humanity as a gift to be enjoyed between husband and wife, even before sin entered the world (Genesis 2:23–25). Like anything else, there is a God-honoring time and place for sexual expression (1 Timothy 4:4; 1 Corinthians 7:4–5). Sexual desire and activity—within their intended use—continue to be God's gift in this way. What Paul is describing is the unchecked corruption of this beautiful gift.

Now Paul describes God giving humanity up to sexual desire and activity of another kind: female homosexuality. The result, as Paul describes it, is that women trade natural male/female sexual relationships for ones that are contrary to nature as God designed it. The following verse will apply the same condemnation to acts taken between men.

Again, Paul pictures this as an expression of God's wrath against unrighteous humanity. This is in direct response to two things mentioned in the previous verse: Rejecting the truth that God is creator and worshiping His creation, instead. God's release of humanity from sexual restraint came in response to our worship of the false gods of creation and not Him as the maker.

peepee in poopoo one time = infinite burning pain

this is Christianity's actual view of justice. this is *perfectly fair* to them

>>17553801
Trespassing in a public park after hours will get you a fine. Trespassing on your neighbors lawn can get you yelled at. Trespassing on a military base can get you thrown in jail. Trespassing in the Capitol while congress is trying to elect a president can get you life in jail. If you resist lawful authority in any of these cases, you can be killed. Injustice is messured only by the one who acts and the nature of the act simply, but also by the nature of the one acted against. If you trespass against Infinite Goodness and resist correction, then obviously the consequence is infinite suffering.

>>17553914
You're psychotic and you need to be kept in a cage or killed outright

>>17553914
>trespass for a couple decades
>tortured forever
not even going to touch the
>infinite goodness
>btw made a place of eternal torment for everyone lol
part

>infinite goodness
>infinite power
>any bullshit existing at all
Does not compute since six million BC. Whatever the fuck Yahweh wants--freedom, or goodness, or love, or whatever, he could have just had it immediately for zero shekels without anyone suffering even one hangnail.

>>17553951
>>17553975
>>17553992
I can relate to your sentiments, because you think like men, and I am a man also. But God was before all things. His ways are not like unto our ways. God created you so that you could enjoy good things.

>>17550785
Sounds like everything is exactly the same then.

>>17553975
Love requires the possibility of denial. If you want to marry a girl and she doesn't want to be with you, the loving act would be to let her go. God loves you and wants you to love him and this requires the possibility of rejection and separation. This state of separation is what hell is, and it's described as painful because God is goodness itself. You don't have to reject God.

>>17554051
>because you think like men
Oh, do I also think 'on earth?' Grandiose broken brain ass nigga

>>17554104
>This state of separation is what hell is
Hell is a lake of fire, on earth, where resurrected 3D people suffer forever and the good get to watch, presumably with coolers full of cold ones

>>17554104
>the loving act is to torture them infinitely
do you understand what you're saying
>You don't have to reject God
God doesn't have to torture anyone, being omnipotent. It would be a contradiction for him to be benevolent and all loving and also torture the majority of mankind for eternity

>>17554195
God isn't torturing anyone. If you're drowning in the ocean and I come up to you with a boat and offer my hand, I'm not the one who killed you when you refuse my help. You chose to be in that state.

>>17553914
I’m just glad no one takes religious nuts seriously in public life anymore.

>>17554104
Friend, I do not think this is a strong analogy. When men find Hell to be unjust and unloving, it is because they do not understand the nature of God and creation. All people recognize, to some extent, the idea of equity and reciprocity. What is rejected is not the mere idea of punishment, but rather the seeming contradiction between a God who is all powerful and who loves us, and a God who has those who have insulted him suffer for eternity. It is not the ordinary sense of justice all men share that we need to demonstrate. The difficulty is in raising men's minds up to God so that they can perhaps recognize the infinite debt of sin. Once a man understands the real nature of God and Sin, the justice of hell and the mercy of purgatory is readily accepted.

>>17553110
>cooming your way to enlightenment

>>17554221
The religious are still running things, the only difference is they're not Christian.

>>17554221
>no one takes religious nuts seriously in public life anymore.

>>17554220
this is retarded because in this analogy you're in the place of God right? remind me who created the ocean? who made it so people drown?

>>17554276
BLM/leftism isn’t a religion, at best you can claim that it has religious elements.

>>17554317
The idea that all human populations are cognitively identical on average is definitely a religion. Not only is there no evidence behind it, all the evidence contradicts it, and it's pretty much just lifted from the Christian equality of souls, translated into bugman materialism. The other main portion of the religion is the concept of progress, which is just the same thing as divine providence, that history inevitably is trending towards a better world.

>>17554233
You must pull a lot of hotties when you go out

>>17554287
I am not that Anon. He is doing a poor job. I think this might be the issue--most people think of order and chaos as opposites, as mutually antagonistic but dependent forces. Perhaps most popularly recognized today by Batman and Joker in the Dark Knight; Sherlock and Moriarty; the archetype appears frequently. But it is a false dichotomy.

Order exists without disorder. Harmony exists without discord. Disorder, discord--these only exist as a disruption or perversion of order and harmony. That something is according to design or plan is clear merely by its order. That something is not according to plan or design is only seen as compared to what ought to have been.

Now, God, being the creator of all things, created all things for a purpose, and he created all things according to their greatest good. Necessarily, all things were well ordered and in harmony. Now, by our free will, we are able to carry ourselves into disorder. If we contradict the designs of God and subvert our own purpose, it is clearly not by God's doing. Now, it is possible that men bring themselves into disorder with God permanently. God, out of justice and mercy, allows this. But if a man so disorders himself that he is in no way compatible with the order of God, then in what way can he enjoy that which God has made him to enjoy? If a man hates God, how can he enjoy the presence of God? But God is present in all places. And if man was made to be united with God, how can a man enjoy being separated from God? And so, in the end, if a man has decided to hate God and separate himself from God permanently, what will be left to him except to suffer eternally, for he has removed from himself everything necessary for his satisfaction and enjoyment.

>>17554353
I am quite happily married.

>>17554372
pageau pls go.

All this talk about a guy you've never met but whom you believe told the truth about Noah's Ark

>>17554372
I get what you're saying, but at least for me the problem is that God, being omniscient, knew that mankind would sin. God, being omnipotent, could have prevented it and kept man's freewill intact. God, being omnibenevolent, would not allow his creation to suffer. Despite this, he allows man to sin and punishes him for it, sending him into a world of suffering and then eternal torture afterwords (until Christ. Even then most of his creation winds up in hell).

>>17554439
He could have made some unthinking robots if that's what he wanted, but that wouldn't be very fun.

>>17554476
reread the post

>>17554566
No

>>17554476
We are unthinking robots to Him. He knows every atom in every neuron and every object on its way to producing a sense-impression. He knows where every memory is stored. None of your thoughts could ever surprise Him.

>>17554596
Where did the second half of your post go?

>>17554624
Check up your ass, you'll have to remove the Jewish dick for a moment

>>17552991
Based. Was going to fap today until I saw this post

>>17554439
>>17554566
Sorry, another Anon responded. It would seem your perspective is still very Man centered. God did not make Man merely to push dirt around a sphere. God is Infinite Good. This is necessarily so. It is God's nature, and it can be reasoned independently by recognizing that God created all things; therefore all things exist and are defined in relation to God. Now, if God prevented men from sinning altogether, certainly Man could still have some freedom of will. But the meaning of choice is in part defined by what is not chosen. So, if a man obeys God with no possibility of disobeying, Man necessarily obeys God's will, but since Man had no choice in obeying, we cannot call it an act of obedience. If man can disobey, now whatever man does in accord with God's will, if he does it in order to obey God rather than disobey God, it becomes an act of obedience. Likewise with love. Now, I can clean my house for my own comfort, or for the comfort of my wife; and if I do it for my wife's good, I can do this gladly or unhappily. Perhaps I do it resentfully. The intent with which I perform the act changes the nature of the act.

God does not desire merely our good, but our greatest good. And God is the highest good. So, our highest good is to know, love, and serve God. And the more freely we do this, the greater it is. And more so, he does not desire things generally, but specifically, for he has made things not generally, but individually and specifically. So just because one man would reject his own good, God will not deny the highest good to another who will accept it. And so, if God prevented all men from disobeying him, to do so would lessen the good that others could be given. And since God makes no man evil, nor does no harm, that some fall away from the highest good is not reason enough to deny the highest good to others.

>>17553110
you know that frithjof is in hell right now right? right besides Guenon being fucked in the ass by the desert demons they worshipped.

St Paul:
>God abandons those who disbelieve in Him to suffer and cause suffering as a consequence of their own foolishness.
Anon:
>If God is real then why do I suffer so? Checkmate, Christians.

Yikes.

>>17555095
>God is all loving and merciful
>btw he's going to torment you in this life and torture you in the next lol
>but it's out of love or something so that makes eternal torture ok just don't question it

>>17552991
Holy fucking based

>>17555610
We will have to account for all the words we have ever let out of our mouth.

>>17555525
See:
>>17552991
>>17553914
>>17554372
>>17554735

>>17555640
Are the angels in the room with us right now?

>>17555708
Angles are incorporeal.

>>17555640
>God is all good and is deserving of all love
why?

>>17555720
Then how does risperidone work on them?

>>17555741
Imagine a time before creation; all that exists as God. He is all powerful in the sense that whatsoever he wills, is. Each thing that exists has been willed into existence by God. From each grain of sand, to all the nebulae, each has been foreknown by God; the universe of all things that exist has been created and ordered according to His will. There is no other meaningful measure for anything except God's will.

>>17555749
It doesn't do anything to them. They don't have bodies. It effect the schizophrenic person's neurochemistry. Most people who have the impression of having spoken with angels have simply confused themselves with imagination. On the other hand, most people have interactions with angels and demons every day without realizing it. Angels (which Demons are) are essentially intelligences with wills; with infused knowledge, they are capable of suggesting images and thoughts to all people at all time. It is not usually God's way to reveal the spiritual to ordinary people, and even most religious people will never have a stereotypical religious experience. God works with people's minds according to their disposition and understanding.

>>17555765
>There is no other meaningful measure for anything except God's will.
Except all of them! God would necessarily will everything that exists

>>17555794
>most people have interactions with angels and demons every day without realizing it.
Can you feel embarrassment?

>>17555797
But they exist according to God's will and are subject to God's will. He did not will them arbitrarily, but for a specific purpose, which is well ordered in relationship to everything else that exists. Men, with free will, can will many things which God doesn't will, but it is fruitless. Our will cannot accomplish anything without the allowance of God. And whether something is good or has done well can only objectively be measured against God's will.

>>17555804
All men are subject to human fear. It is a form of pride that we desire to be thought well of by other men. If you would mock me, I would have to struggle to be unashamed by my faith. But it would not be hard, because I value God's view of things more than yours.

>>17553975
"Eternal torment" is separation from God. He gives you want you want in rejection. If God is the font of all goodness, then separation from Him means "torment" in human terms. To do otherwise is to force love upon you (which is to say, rape).

>>17552991
Amazing post, thank you anon!

>>17555878
Anon, this is partly true, but in conversation like these, it is necessary to disclose all. If people struggle with the doctrine of hell, it is necessary to complete their understanding, and not focus only on one part which seems like it might be least offensive to their sensibilities. The greatest suffering of hell is the separation from God, but He'll also includes such immense physical suffering that our minds cannot comprehend it. We cannot shy away from this part, because to do so forces us to ignore that Man is not mere mind, but is mind and body. It is not a duality, but an integrated whole. It cannot be then, that only our spirit suffers, but our body will suffer in hell also. The reason for the suffering remains the same--we are cut off from life itself.

>>17552991
Damn. I'm learning Christianity as I go, but this is a blessed post. Thank you anon. 91. Year I was born.