/lit/ - Literature

>>17547860
Wilhelm II

both dog shit

>>17547860
This nigga would literally time travel just to suck Wagner's dick if he could.

Nietzsche.

>>17547905
Do you have any idea how many people are equally as obsessed about Goethe?

>>17547980
based

>>17547980
>Famously, in his published writing Nietzsche sets up Bizet against Wagner, declares Carmen to be the greatest of all operas, and compares its music favourably with Wagner's in a certain amount of detail. But he does not believe this either. Privately, in a letter to a friend he writes: 'What I say about Bizet, you should not take seriously the way I am, Bizet does not matter at all to me. But as an ironic antithesis to Wagner, it has a strong effect' (27 December 1888). It does indeed, and has been quoted ever since. We begin to realise who, as between Nietzsche and Wagner, is the actor, the master of insincere effect. As for Wagner the man, although Nietzsche heaped almost incredible public abuse on his head ('Is Wagner a human being at all? Isn't he rather a sickness?' — this remark in The Wagner Case is representative of dozens such to be found in his writings) he never, in spite of himself, lost a vivid sense of Wagner's greatness. In the last year of his effective life he wrote to a friend: 'Wagner himself, as man, as animal, as God and artist, surpasses a thousand times the understanding and the incomprehension of our Germans' (26 February 1888).

Nietzsche has tons of letters like these too.

>>17547860

>>17548024
Honestly still not sure what his poetic insight actually was, of course one vaguely knows from hearing about his influence on Heidegger, but is he really that hard that he can't even be expressed to a degree of understanding in basic language while someone like Goethe can be?

>>17547980
For Nietzsche, it was Goethe
>Goethe imagined a European culture that collected the inheritance of all that humanity has achieved. The German culture of this century arouses mistrust: music lacks that complete element that liberates and binds: Goethe.

>>17547860
The dude who played Ulrich Nielsen in Dark

Reminder that Jewry decided to drive this people to extinction centuries before Hitler and Eisenmenger tried to warn us

>>17548274
Who?

>>17548293
Well they took their sweet time, Germany has been the most populated European country for over a century now.

>>17548922
Populated, but by whom?

>>17547860
goethe is to wagner what iggy pop is to kurt cobain

>>17548293
You mean jews like Kant?

>>17547860

Goethe. He is the most well-rounded and was even critical of his earlier work later in life. Stand-up guy.

>>17549171

At this point in history the "omg jews" crowd has just utterly jumped the shark. Everyone knows the stereotypical problems with the jews, and yet above all that they still get attributed these absolute powers of coordination and conspiracy across time and space. You'd think they'd realize by now that the jews are just as much a part of their history as the slave traders are part of black american's history.

>>17547860
Bach

>>17549234
Wagner himself was very well rounded as well, though more in being a great figure in more than just art, or a single art, rather than a true renaissance figure like Goethe (and where his work in art is in a single art), but the extent of this well-roundedness is possibly best shown by the fact that Heidegger thought Wagner's aesthetics and philosophy of art was the primary between Hegel and Nietzsche, and Wagner's thought not just about art.

Wagner was also critical of his early works, his Rienzi is infamous for that.

>>17549276
The slave traders in America's history were jewish.

>>17547980
>>17548012
cringe
>>17547860
Correct answer is Goethe of course.

>>17549722
Explain your thought process.

>>17549722
Goethe isn't comparable to Nietzsche. He wrote a couple of alright books that influenced a movement no one remembers. Nietzsche is a top three philosopher all time and by far the best poetic thinker.

>Although it is doubtful that Goethe agreed with Schopenhauer's philosophical positions he was impressed by his intellect and extensive scientific education.[80] Their subsequent meetings and correspondence were a great honor to a young philosopher who was finally acknowledged by his intellectual hero. They mostly discussed Goethe's newly published (and somewhat lukewarmly received) work on color theory. Schopenhauer soon started writing his own treatise on the subject, On Vision and Colors, which in many points differed from his teacher's. Although they remained polite towards each other, their growing theoretical disagreements—and especially Schopenhauer's tactless criticisms and extreme self-confidence—soon made Goethe become distant again and after 1816 their correspondence became less frequent.[81] Schopenhauer later admitted that he was greatly hurt by this rejection, but he continued to praise Goethe, and considered his color theory a great introduction to his own

>>17548293
They’ve been very slow. Still too many degenerate krauts around. I wish they would finish the job already.

>>17550255
>Goethe isn't comparable to Nietzsche.
If anything it's absolutely the other way around.

>>17550255
>and by far the best poetic thinker.
*Blocks your path*

>>17547860
Wagner is not even the best German composer, let alone the best German artist

>>17549171
What did Kant do?

>>17548293
Wagner was Jewish. Just a daily reminder

>>17549276
>they still get attributed these absolute powers of coordination and conspiracy across time and space
Yawn, cliché.

We have not even BEGUN to jump sharks. We don't even have our waterskis on yet

>>17549171
>>17550368
>Guy I don't like? I know, I'll call him a Jew!

>>17550363
What both Wagner and Nietzsche thought would kill life

>>17550394
I mean, feel free to get triggered, but it is actually the case that his father was Jewish.

>>17547860
I think Wagner is great but Goethe was absolutely God tier. Very few are comparable to Goethe. You could, however, compare Shakespeare with him.

>>17550277
>Goethe rejected Schopenhauer
>Schopenhauer rejected Wagner
>Wagner rejected Nietzsche
why are g*rmans like this

>>17550358
everyone's daddy

>>17550277
>especially Schopenhauer's tactless criticisms and extreme self-confidence
This seems to be a running trend with him, like when he scheduled his lecture the same time as Hegel's to compete for students, but almost nobody ended up attending his lecture and everyone went to see Hegel's.

>>17550255
Nietzsche considered Goethe one of the few people that were close to the Overman.

>>17550463
That's a myth, there is no evidence for it. Wagner stepfather had a jewish-sounding name and some suspect he was his actual father but there's no evidence for that. Your best argument would be that Wagner was born in the Jewish part of Leipzig, but even that isn't much.

>>17550362
This. Take the Beethoven pill

>>17547860
It's neither Goethe nor Wagner.
The true question is: Kleist or Beethoven?

>literature
Goethe
>philosophy
Nietzsche
>music
Wagner


Can any country keep up with this? Seems like Germany has the perfect holy trinity

>>17551202
it's bach not wagner lmfao

>>17547860
Wagner was a bit autistic and liked to wear women's underpants so I'm going to go with Goethe since the weirdest thing he did was simping really hard.

>>17551245
What about this

>>17551231
Bach insanly overrated. Only tryhard faggots put him so high.
Bach is the Kafka of music.

>>17551269
Bach is good because he is objectively good. His music is complex, universal. Wagner's music is riddled with insecurities.
>tryhard faggots
>the kafka of
The kind of people he appeals to

>>17551253
Based

Bump

>>17551269
Congratulations, you are in possession of the dumbest post on /lit/.

>>17550965
Just look at Wagner, you might as well say his father was a Negro or Japanese

>>17551269
This is so wrong

>>17551276
>>17551269
Both wrong
The answer lies in Beethovens Eroica Symphony

>>17551269
Classical music is a degeneration of music from the baroque period. It is because classical music tries to be lighter and simpler while Baroque is more complex