/lit/ - Literature

>>17514947
Dante plagiarized the night journey story or the Isra and Mi'raj off the Quran for The Divine Comedy

>>17516176
Bullshit only muslims are stupid enough to believe
>also muslims unirocally believe their prophet rode on this thing

>>17516214
cope little christcuck

>>17516238

>>17516259
>tfw having to carry Muhammad all the night

>>17516238
Cope?
He is calling you stupid, stupid.

>>17516214
didnt ur god die or sumthing

>>17516259
>>17516264
Aren't depictions of humans haram?

>>17516460
I mean it's hilarious, you literally believe in Santa-tier stuff

>>17516214
the buraq having a human face is not a belief muslims have and is not found in any sources in islam. Persians just liked to portray the horse as having a face in their artwork.

>>17516892
As it was the sole thing, come on it's fairy tale material.
>Then he [Gabriel] brought the Buraq, handsome-faced and bridled, a tall, white beast, bigger than the donkey but smaller than the mule. He could place his hooves at the farthest boundary of his gaze. He had long ears. Whenever he faced a mountain his hind legs would extend, and whenever he went downhill his front legs would extend. He had two wings on his thighs which lent strength to his legs. He bucked when Muhammad came to mount him. The angel Gabriel put his hand on his mane and said: "Are you not ashamed, O Buraq? By Allah, no-one has ridden you in all creation more dear to Allah than he is." Hearing this he was so ashamed that he sweated until he became soaked, and he stood still so that the Prophet mounted him.[9]

>>17516936
open the bible please

>>17516991
>hey look at them it's perfectly okay to believe Muhammad was carried on this Buraq thing like Santa on Christmas Eve.

>>17516807
>brooooooo talking snake broooo
r/atheism is one block down

>>17517044
>nooooo muh atherino you must believe in my magic winged buraqino and my mirajino

>>17517062
>noooooo broo there's a talking snake in this book that's so sillly

Atheists have no allies aside from themselves.

>>17516214
Prophet Muhammed(SAW) ascended to the highest reality and was brought close to Allah. Is this hard to believe?

>>17517106
Look these pagans. They believe in ridiculous stuff like Pegasus carrying Bellerophon to kill the Khimaira. Look these children. They believe in naive stuff like Santa riding a sleigh during Christmas Eve to bring gifts to nice little boys and girls.
But my Buraq is not like that. Buraq is real. Buraq really carried Muhammad to heaven with his little wings. Validated authorities state Buraq did so. You should not joke with Buraq. Buraq is serious.

>>17517142
I wish I had a friend like Buraq desu.

>>17517171
seethe

>>17517171
No real argument here. Muslims believe in the djinn and the angels.
"177 baqarah :It is not piety, that you turn your faces to the East and to the West. True piety is this: to believe in God, and the Last Day, the >" angels", the Book, and the Prophets, to give of one´s substance, however cherished, to kinsmen, and orphans, the needy, the traveller, beggars, and to ransom the slave, to perform the prayer, to pay the alms. And they who fulfil their covenant when they have engaged in a covenant, and endure with fortitude misfortune, hardship and peril, these are they who are true in their faith, these are the truly godfearing"

>>17517189
I like horses very much and imagine that I'd really love a flying horse.

>>17514947
What's wiith this sandnigger terrorist invasion here

>>17517171
Are you female? Ex Muslim? Atheist?

>>17517171
I already believed in Bellérophon and Santa, now thanks to you, I also believe in Buraq.

>>17517240
I want a fancy flying horse like Buraq, please indicate me a Buraq dealer.

>>17517263
Dump r/atheism.

>>17517263
I can refute you by saying the buraq is symbolic. You have no actual argument against Islam.

>>17517258
You're welcome, you should give a try to the unicorn too. Alas it doesn't fly like Buraq, Allah being the greatest, only him creates fancy flying horses like Buraq.

>>17517295
Yes that's the usual cope for every retarded thing that's contained in millenia old religious books.
>a-akshually it's symbolic

>>17517324
>aksually it's symbolic
r/atheism tier argument.

Why is it a cope? My argument is legit

>>17517324
Miraj is about Muhammed (SAW) being brought close Allah (the truth). Muhammed (SAW) ascended.

>>17517345
Because implictly you admit this Buraq stuff is too ridiculous to be real, so, in order to save your beliefs, you assume it must have some subtile symbolic meaning. But in truth it's obviously ascribable to the wild imagination of VIIth century bedouins.
>>17517353
And Allah gave him a magic horse so he may attain the truth, what a great miracle.

>>17517524
You're strawmanning, stop it right fucking now before you get a bitch slap.

>>17517534
By Allah send a magic Buraq instead.

>>17517553
You do not understand the symbolism retard. Miraj is not a mere physical journey from point x to y. Do not equate ir to a space flight. It is a spiritual journey. It is the meeting between Muhammed(SAW) and Allah(the lord of the worlds and the truth). It is the ultimate state of tawhid.

>>17516214
Can you tell me why the story of the Night Journey is so ridiculous to you when tales divine miracles are common throughout Abrahamic theology?

>>17517623
>The Israʾ and Miʿraj (Arabic: الإسراء والمعراج, al-’Isrā’ wal-Miʿrāj) are the two parts of a Night Journey that, according to Islam, the Islamic prophet Muhammad took during a single night around the year 621. Within Islam it signifies both a physical and spiritual journey.[1] The Quran surah al-Isra contains an outline account,[2] while greater detail is found in the hadith collections of the reports, teachings, deeds and sayings of Muhammad. In the accounts of the Israʾ, Muhammad is said to have traveled on the back of a winged baby-horse-like white beast, called Buraq, (Arabic: الْبُرَاق al-Burāq or /ælˈbʊrɑːk/ "lightning" or more generally "bright") to "the farthest mosque". By tradition this mosque, which came to represent the physical world, was identified as the Al-Aqsa Mosque in Jerusalem. At Masjid-e-Aqsa, Muhammad is said to have led the other prophets in prayer. His subsequent ascent into the heavens came to be known as the Miʿraj. Muhammad's journey and ascent is marked as one of the most celebrated dates in the Islamic calendar.[3]
"Both a physical and spiritual journey". Buraq is real my man.
>>17517628
>Whatabouthem

>>17517669
>Buraq is real my man.
yes

>>17517669
>>Whatabouthem
I asked you a question.

>>17517857
And you have my answer. Whataboutism doesn't justify Buraq existence.

>>17516214
The Buraq is one of the many made up fantasies invented by the “Islamic traditions”. You don’t find this bullshit in the Quran.

Reject the hadiths, you fucking cucks.

>>17517922
No the Qur'an doesn't involve any ridiculous claims at all
Nothing silly like slicing the moon in half or anything of the sort

>>17517951
>Nothing silly like slicing the moon in half or anything of the sort
Miracles are common in every religion, you fucking retard. Miracles are, by definition, supernatural, you fucking retard. Also, the Quran mentions the moon being “split”. Nothing more.

>>17517967
He hasn't read the Qur'an to know. He gets his information from religionofpeace dot com.

>>17517967
>Also, the Quran mentions the moon being “split”. Nothing more.
Nothing more, a plain, casual moon splitting.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lamassu

>>17517967
Yes, and it also claimed that it physically happened
Early sources used it as an arguement in favour of Muhammad's prophethood
And yet, no slicing, splitting or smlitting ever happened based on astronomical data

>>17518012
You don't get it, it's a MIRACLE, Allah's TRYING YOUR FAITH when he splits the moon and leaves no trace in order to confuse future kaffir astronomers, because Allah's the wisest.

>>17517894
You didn’t answer my question. You accused me of whataboutism. Answer my question

>>17518035
Your question is whataboutism and I addressed it for what it is, whataboutism.

I'm not even muslim, or religious at all really.

But do you retards seriously think there will be scientific data that shows miracles? Then by definition they would not be miracles but something natural

>>17517996
Metaphor, you fucking retard, you what it is? The Quran is written in a poetic language because society relied heavily on rhetoric and oral poetry.
>>17518012
Actually, there are several interpretations, even in the early records, you fucking retard. I won’t advise you to kill yourself, it’s haram but for your own sake, you should shut the fuck up. You’re not trolling; you’re merely revealing your own stupidity.

>>17518066
>i-its a metaphor
See>>17517524
Because implictly you admit this moon splitting stuff is too ridiculous to be real, so, in order to save your beliefs, you assume it must have some subtile symbolic meaning. But in truth it's obviously ascribable to the wild imagination of VIIth century bedouins.

>>17518043
They’re arguing like retarded teenagers who just discovered skepticism after watching two videos on YouTube.

>>17517996
>>17518012
>>17518029
I don’t get the argument. There’s no physical evidence of a miracle so these people are stupid?
I always interpreted the moon splitting thing to be the moon changing phases abruptly.

>>17518075
>Because implictly you admit this moon splitting stuff is too ridiculous to be real, so, in order to save your beliefs, you assume it must have some subtile symbolic meaning.
Nice strawman, retard. I’m not admitting anything, you fucking piece of shit. I’m saying that there’s more than one way to understand these verses.

>>17518075
You’re arguing in bad faith

>>17518084
These retards, who probably think themselves as rational skeptics, are literally conflating absence of evidence and evidence of absence.

>>17518084
They believe whatever silly stuff that comes from their books because it comforts their beliefs. Had the Buraq or the moon splitting story come from pagans or hindus, you would all be laughing at it. But here you are, trying to defend fairy tales because it's part of your lore.
>>17518091
You're willing to think that there's a gorillion way to understand those verses because they narrate things that didn't happen and you can't come to terms with that.

>>17518105
Yeah whata silly idea to require a bit of evidence to admit that a flying horse is real and the moon splitted some times ago.

>>17518136
>They believe whatever silly stuff that comes from their books because it comforts their beliefs
Is there a problem with this? Religion is an important part is many people’s daily lives.
>but here you are
I don’t want to sound rude here but you sound like you’re projecting. Just because you would belittle beliefs that aren’t your own, doesn’t mean you should expect others to.
>you’re willing
He’s not wrong in that there’s a lot of ways to interpret these stories. Why can’t you come to terms with that?
I’m going to have to say this again but this seems like a projection to me. You can’t understand what his reasoning so you attribute your own traits to him.
I’m thinking you and I just have unreconcilable differences in values.

>>17518151
You’re asking for evidence for an argument based on faith. You’re really fucking dumb.

>>17518172
>Is there a problem with this? Religion is an important part is many people’s daily lives.
The problem is that they lie. What they say is not true.
>I don’t want to sound rude here but you sound like you’re projecting. Just because you would belittle beliefs that aren’t your own, doesn’t mean you should expect others to.
I belittle them because they are false, and not even subtely false but plain bullshit.
>He’s not wrong in that there’s a lot of ways to interpret these stories. Why can’t you come to terms with that?
I’m going to have to say this again but this seems like a projection to me. You can’t understand what his reasoning so you attribute your own traits to him.
I’m thinking you and I just have unreconcilable differences in values.
Because it's a way to circonvene the obvious lie in order to keep their system of belief afloat, it's hideous desu.

>>17518180
An "argument based on faith" is I trust whatever bullshit suits me because I want to. Nice for you if you want to believe the moon splitted and buraq is real, nevertheless it's not true.

>>17518194
>they lie
To you. What’s true for them isn’t for you. What’s the problem here?
>because they are false
Ah, and here we go.
Because they are false. So you should be OK with Muslims belittling other faiths because their think they are false, right?

>>17518234
>To you. What’s true for them isn’t for you. What’s the problem here?
The problem is that there is only one and single truth, and the truth is that buraq didn't exist and the moon didn't splitted circa 600 AD.
>Because they are false. So you should be OK with Muslims belittling other faiths because their think they are false, right?
They basically do that all the time, even the Quran is pile of insults toward christians, jews, polytheists, and whoever doesn't follow Muhammad's sect.

>>17518245
Are you OK with Muslims belittling other faiths because they believe those are false?

>>17518254
They don't wait for me to give them permission, they've been doing that since the beginning of islam. Again just read the Quran.
Anyway, all of this doesn't matter as it comes to what is true and what they say is not truth.

>>17518320
I asked you a yes or no question.

>>17518330
You have my answer.

>>17518333
I specifically want a yes or a no. Both of your answers were deflections.

>>17518345
I fully understand you try to ensnare me in false dillemmas, anyway you have my answer.

>>17516807
>2021
>still not believing in Santa

>>17518205
>nevertheless it's not true
Who knows? Not you, because your skepticism is clearly limited by your own stupidity. As I said, absence of evidence isn’t evidence of absence and as a real retarded piece of shit, you insist on elements which rely only on fate. Did Jesus walk on water? Did he resurrected? I don’t know but I’m not a retard who thinks “science” and “plausibility” are valid arguments to object fucking miracles which are - by definition - SUPERNATUAL. You’re an embarrassment.
>They basically do that all the time, even the Quran is pile of insults toward christians, jews, polytheists, and whoever doesn't follow Muhammad's sect.
So what? Also, these insults are clearly directed at the Arabs who fought Muhammad. You’d have to be retarded to think these insults are aimed at every Jew and every Christian when historical records show that Muhammad had Christians and Jews among his allies.

>>17518359
>ensnare me in false dilemmas
I’m trying to hold you to your principles, dawg, what the fuck do you even mean?

>>17518388
He means you’re a sophist who’s trying to eliminate nuances and complexities to suit your retarded rhetoric.

>>17518402
I’m sorry but if you’re willing to abandon your principles to dunk on people that you don’t like, then you’re a subhuman in my eyes.
>sophist
Fuck you retard.

>>17518418
You’re lying. You’re retarded. You’re ignorant. You’re a sophist. Go back to /pol/ or r/skeptics, you pathetic piece of shit.

>>17518488
K. See ya.

>>17518386
>Who knows? Not you, because your skepticism is clearly limited by your own stupidity. As I said, absence of evidence isn’t evidence of absence and as a real retarded piece of shit, you insist on elements which rely only on fate. Did Jesus walk on water? Did he resurrected? I don’t know but I’m not a retard who thinks “science” and “plausibility” are valid arguments to object fucking miracles which are - by definition - SUPERNATUAL. You’re an embarrassment.
Ah yes, so you just have to qualify it a miracle and by construction it becomes undeniable since no rational argument can be opposed to it. Because it's a miracle.
Look, I just saw the Buraq flying before my window. It's a miracle. Now prove it didn't fly before my window.
>So what? Also, these insults are clearly directed at the Arabs who fought Muhammad. You’d have to be retarded to think these insults are aimed at every Jew and every Christian when historical records show that Muhammad had Christians and Jews among his allies.
All this book is pure hatred toward the disbeliever, i e everyone on earth who's not muslim.

>>17518388
My principle is to tell the truth, nothing more complicated.

>>17516214
Looks like a bootleg lamassu.
>>17516176
The quran is for all intents and purposes a reworded syriac christian missal book.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Syro-Aramaic_Reading_of_the_Koran

>>17517227
Why are they not getting banned left and right for spamming this low effort shit everywhere?

>>17518575
Ok, so you should be fine with gunning down runaway slaves for lying about their runaway status, correct?

>>17518567
>Ah yes, so you just have to qualify it a miracle and by construction it becomes undeniable since no rational argument can be opposed to it. Because it's a miracle.
Another strawman. I’ve never said it’s undeniable. I’m saying it’s a matter of faith, you fucking retard.
> All this book is pure hatred toward the disbeliever, i e everyone on earth who's not muslim.
Another lie. Fascinating.

>>17518628
>Another strawman. I’ve never said it’s undeniable. I’m saying it’s a matter of faith, you fucking retard.
Yeah and "matter of faith" means fairy tales are true because you decided they were, no matter the evidence since it's discarded as a premise. It's a miracle!
>>17518625
That's some low effort sophistry anon.

>>17518658
>sophistry
What sophistry? It’s the logical conclusion of your principles. If truth is the most important thing to you, then you should be fine with runaway slaves being gunned down for lying.

>>17518658
>Yeah and "matter of faith" means fairy tales are true because you decided they were, no matter the evidence since it's discarded as a premise. It's a miracle!
You’re such a disgusting philistine... I mean look at you, ridiculously comparing the sacred and the profane without any understanding of what is distinctive about faith. Faith isn’t a matter of “deciding”, you fucking retard. I’m not imposing my views built on faith, pigfuck. Do you get it?

>>17518693
You're just doing cheap slippery slope.

>>17518702
>You’re such a disgusting philistine... I mean look at you, ridiculously comparing the sacred and the profane without any understanding of what is distinctive about faith. Faith isn’t a matter of “deciding”, you fucking retard. I
Aw it's sacred so no one can tell it's obvious bullshit.
>I’m not imposing my views built on faith, pigfuck. Do you get it?
You are every time you make an assertion. When you say the moon splitted, or may have splitted, you're telling something blatantly false for the sake of safeguarding your system of belief.

>>17518738
>something blatantly false for the sake of safeguarding your system of belief.
Like what?

>>17518759
Like the moon splitted, Muhammad rode a Buraq, saw angels, whatever. All your revelation system rests upon a bunch of fairy tales at best, lies at worst.

>>17518738
>>17518759
Before you reply, I want you to answer something:
Do you believe absolute truth exists in this world?

>>17518783
Of course they do. There is one truth.

>>17518738
>Aw it's sacred so no one can tell it's obvious bullshit.
Another strawman. Tiring. You’re a miserable scumbag.
>You are every time you make an assertion. When you say the moon splitted, or may have splitted, you're telling something blatantly false for the sake of safeguarding your system of belief.
I’m not. I’m simply responding to your sophistry. Tell me? Are you euphoric, right now? Are you enlightened by your own intellect? :)

>>17518782
Again, let’s walk back a bit.
Earlier I said these things are all based on whether or not you choose to believe in them. That becomes your truth.
But what is true for you may not necessarily be true for someone else.
What you are doing is imposing your truth on to others.
>>17518792
Like what? What makes something true for you?

>>17518798
What's sure is that you're way angrier than me anon.
>>17518806
>Again, let’s walk back a bit.
>Earlier I said these things are all based on whether or not you choose to believe in them. That becomes your truth.
>But what is true for you may not necessarily be true for someone else.
>What you are doing is imposing your truth on to others.
Truth imposes itself. If I say you're running into a wall and this wall exists, you're gonna hit it and it will hurt, even if you hold as true that it didn't exist. Same thing in reverse.
>Like what? What makes something true for you?
Truth is what is objective, ie independant of opinions. The sea exists whether any or all individual minds want it or not, know it or not.
Conversely, some or even all individual minds may have the opinion that something as the Buraq, it doesn't entail that Buraq exists objectively.
The entire point is to seek truth, not to indulge in illusions, be they temporarily comfortable.

>>17518971
>Truth imposes itself. If I say you're running into a wall and this wall exists, you're gonna hit it and it will hurt, even if you hold as true that it didn't exist. Same thing in reverse
I have a better analogy. If I told you (in a vacuum) that I raped your mother in her sleep, what would you do?
You would have choose whether or not to believe me no? No evidence I fucked your mom though, but I did it. What you chose to believe is true for you.
>objective
So the word objective only means “independent of opinions” to you?
It also means to be “based on observed fact”. Do you agree with this?
>it doesn't entail that Buraq exists objectively
As in “observable fact”? I would say yes. But for “free of opinion”? You can argue that any form of interpretation of anything is meaningless.
I’m fairly certain Harry Potter is someone who only lives in the imaginations of people who enjoy the stories. They objectively don’t exist, but the stories still mean something in the heads of the fans.
I’m curious, what do you think of trannies? Not memeing or trying to shit on you. Genuine question. What are your thoughts on trannies?

>>17518971
>What's sure is that you're way angrier than me anon
Trust me, I’m not. I’m calling you out but I remain unaffected by your buffoonery.

>>17519198
>I have a better analogy. If I told you (in a vacuum) that I raped your mother in her sleep, what would you do?
>You would have choose whether or not to believe me no? No evidence I fucked your mom though, but I did it. What you chose to believe is true for you.
Since you was not materially able to rape my mother, nor anyone for this matter, I would simply not trust you and consider you a sad weirdo somewhat disgusting.
>So the word objective only means “independent of opinions” to you?
It also means to be “based on observed fact”. Do you agree with this?
Observation is actually meaningless if it doesn't relate to an objective reality.
>As in “observable fact”? I would say yes. But for “free of opinion”? You can argue that any form of interpretation of anything is meaningless. I’m fairly certain Harry Potter is someone who only lives in the imaginations of people who enjoy the stories. They objectively don’t exist, but the stories still mean something in the heads of the fans.
It's a fiction character that only exists in readers mind. Anyone who pretends that Harry Potter is actually someone who exists in real life, is a sorcerer, rides flying brooms would rightfully be considered good for mental hospital. Yet when it's sorcerer Muhammad riding his flying horse Buraq it's somehow different because muh faith.
>I’m curious, what do you think of trannies? Not memeing or trying to shit on you. Genuine question. What are your thoughts on trannies?
That they're people taking themselves for what they're not, as a simple probing of their underwears would indicate. However that's barely more stupid than to believe in Buraq.

>>17520317
>I would simply not trust you and consider you a sad weirdo somewhat disgusting.
The reason i engage in absurd hypotheticals is because it gets us down to the point a lot faster than milquetoast ones like the wall one you brought up.
>Yet when it's sorcerer Muhammad riding his flying horse Buraq it's somehow different because muh faith.
Yes of course it’s fucking different because religion isn’t just collections of fairytales. They’re systems of belief that guide the lives of millions of people worldwide. These two are not equivalent at all.
>trannies
Thank you for answering that question. I can now confidently state that we just fundamentally disagree on what things ought to be valued and there’s nothing else to talk about further.
I value the emotional and spiritual attachment people have to things. While you on the other hand, value things you believe are objective truths.