/lit/ - Literature

>>17511723
Should I really start with the Greeks? I feel I will learn nothing with them since their teachings are antiquated for my liking. Are there better alternatives?

>>17511793
Start with whatever you want.

Does reading a-lot actually make you a better writer? The people I know who read the most are the least creative, and most stiff people I've ever met.

How do I read without looking at the page number? I makes it feel like a chore.

>>17511793
It depends on what you're trying to get out of it. If you want to "understand philosophy" then yes, and depending on who you're trying to understand (if there's a person in question) then maybe still a yes, but often a good secondary source is sufficient.
>>17511895
To some degree. Many good writers imitate some of the style of other, older writers. The issue is that instead of imitating a little and taking some general pointers from other people's methods, they reduce it to an almost algorithmic form of writing where all they can do is ape someone's style and any deviation is impossible.
>>17511908
Do you have OCD or something? Otherwise just "don't look at the page number" m9, it's usually at the bottom of the page so just stop reading when the words stop

Any recommendations for prerequisites for The confessions by augustine? Also any recommendations on a translation? I was thinking about buying the oxford translation.

>>17511908
Get a Kindle or whatever and turn off page numbers

Why do you keep making these dumb threads?

>>17511987
>Why do you keep making these dumb threads?
>I think this could help the board quality overall.
Read the OP post next time, anon.

>>17511975
Ebooks are for fags though
>>17511957
I probably do have undiagnosed ocd but I’m reading a book with a pretty big page size so I just end up seeing the page count each time I get the the bottom. This isn’t a problem for me when I read smaller books.

Are my aspirations stupid and hopeless?

>>17511723
are the yearly brands in Infinite Jest minor or second brands or are they supposed to be big American brands? I don't seem to know any of them

>>17512062
yes, but then again what isn't >>17511971
the bible I guess. I didn't read it in English but you can't go wrong with oxford imo

>>17512064
they are all large american brands. the whopper is a burger king sandwich, tucks are cooling pads for hemorrhoids, dove is chocolate, perdue is a slaughterhouse farm brand etc. etc, they are all real. (the year of heartland dairy products references the insane american dairy farm subsidy though)

>>17512033
>Ebooks are for fags though
Why it's more practical than buying normal books.

>>17512161
Not as comfy

>>17511723
Anons, my parents have been bothering me lately wanting me to explain them why is greek philosophy important to life. They have programmed a 5 day week where i explain them the vital importance of greek philosophers. Now my problem is that i told them i was reading them but instead i was reading Deleuze and Spinoza like a boss.
What short greek works can i read in the span of a few days that will prepare to give them a lesson in Greek thought? it needs to be as close as self help as possible so be nice please. And thank you in advance.

>>17512064
All but one, you should be able to gueas which is not real. Say them out loud if you must.

>>17512366
Either you’re homeschooled or you’re just lying so we can help with your homework

>>17512196
Who cares about that?

>>17512474
neither

>>17512576
Then why would your parents care about the greeks.

>>17511723
Fuck off /sci/nigger

>>17512720
/sci/?

>>17512646
Because they care about me

>>17512898
By talking about the Greeks?

>>17512913
About what i like

>>17511895
>The people I know who read the most are the least creative, and most stiff people I've ever met.
That's because they're stifling their own voices in the hopes of imitating others.

>>17512944
How old are you? Be honest

>>17512772
I think /sci/ has a similar thread like this.

>>17513083
He might be underage.

>>17511723
Novels with Pessoa like protagonists?

>>17513235
Most boards have a QTDDTOT

>>17511971
There was a nice two parter lecture about Augustine in Philip daileader's Teaching Company course on the Early Middle Ages
https://www.thegreatcourses.com/courses/early-middle-ages

Also helpful
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QpBvJs4Pu-4

I also recommend watching this guy's lectures on early Christian thinkers especially middle platonists
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9kcNSs_hBFE
You have to dig a bit, but look for Clement, Justin Martyr etc on his channel, I think he has a whole bunch on the early Fathers. All of that would be helpful

But really, the best intro would be just reading it. It's so short and it's beautiful. As long as you know that the ancient world at that time was a confusing place full of vague desire for mystery religions and metaphysical answers, and that's why all these weird Manichaeans and such were about, you will have a good time. There is something magical to Augustine

>>17512366
just threaten to kill them if they bother you with pointless inconsequential questions again.

>>17512366
>i was reading Deleuze and Spinoza like a boss.
ha yes the pomo vitalist ''god is just nature bro''

I will let you know philosophy is shit after the presocratics, unless you wan to larp in acadamia getting a cushy job and building a narrative that you are a free thinker to sell your crappy books to atheists.

bnumo

>>17513842
What are you? A psycho?

>>17511723
I want to hug Okayu

>>17514844
What’s she like?

>>17514865
Very cute and gay.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lusGw2tPWpQ

>>17511723
Which Greek philosopher should I read. I have a copy of the The Republic from Plato, is that a good start?

>>17514914
Actually, it is.

>>17514944
Cool. After I'm finished with Plato and Socrates what other Greek philosopher should i read?

i am reading Meditations by Marcus Aurelius rn. What I am reading I already thought, however, the fact that this man was a Roman empire furthermore ignites these thoughts all the time. I'm not sure if it is healthy for me to be reading. Especially due to the fact I am a very happy person,. Should I keep reading this book? Does it ever tell you to live your life in happiness? Am i reading this wrong? Its making me nihilistic - which i have always been against my whole life. I even looked down upon nhilists.

>>17514991
Why is it making you nihilistic?

Does one need to understand Spanish to fully understand/enjoy Under The Volcano?

>>17515031
Because it makes me realise life is pointless - I kinda already thought this but no one reinforced it.

>>17515031
What I have so far come from it is that
"Once you do die only a select few people will remember you until they die. But If somehow you make it big only a generation will remember you, then a select few people will remember you, then no one will remember you. The only point of life is to accept death and appreciate birth"
But this fact didn't really need to be reinforced at the current point in my life.

>>17515072
>>17515090
I don't see how that would make you nihilistic or less happy.

>>17515101
Becauseyou live your life thinking you are the centre of the universe and that you will die and still be a ghost of yourself. I know its very childish but it is how I have lived. Your soul and your memory will exist how it does right now just in an immortal form of yourself. Now that the thought has been challenged i no longer see the reason. Im sure i will come to my senses in a few years. I just have nothing to believe right now an it makes me crazy.

>>17515059
it was written in english nigga

>>17515120
>Becauseyou live your life thinking you are the centre of the universe
I don't really get this. Maybe I'm just telling myself I don't do the same. I've accepted that I'm just one of many millions and that I'll be soon forgotten when I die. Everything and everyone gets forgotten eventually.

>>17515123
I know, but the audiobook, at least in the first 180', contains many a bout of lively, sections in spanish. I don't know if this is in the original as well, or if it's an embellishment, as if 'yeah, dude, i'm so emtioned-up that i'm gonna speak spanish then repeated the same thing in english, but toned down'

>>17515137
Well im not necessarily the centre of the universe. I just exist right now. And i will always exist even after i die. It makes me realise I won't exist once i die. It's interesting how we all think. Thanks, anon this makes me really reevaluate each and every person.

Why are writers so averse in using adverbs?

>>17514892
I see thanks, it was enlightening.

what am i in for?

>>17511723
>study engineering because parents
>fucking hate it and think that it's evil
>like philosophy and literature
>no job prospects
I feel lost and don't know what to do.
>inb4 kys
any recommendations would be helpful, what can a litfag do for a living?

>>17515726
Why are you letting other people control your life?
If you want to spend time on philosophy and literature then do so. If engineering is getting in the way too much then stop it. Obviously you need to support yourself, but you don't need to spend years going to college to get a degree and make a hundred thousand a year if you don't want to. A big salary, while certainly nice, will not in and of itself bring you fulfillment. Unless you end up completely changing your interests then there's a not insignificant chance that you'll look back to the earlier times of your life with regret of wasting it on doing something you hate just to satisfy others rather than doing something you enjoy.
You can just get a normal job to support yourself. If you really want to make money of off writing then you can start a Patreon and shill yourself whenever you get the chance. that's probably your best bet. Try to establish a dedicated audience. Publishing is basically playing the lottery and self-publishing is even worse about that. Having people that want to read what you write because they enjoy your works is a huge boon. Additionally, if you want to make more money, you could write smut. If you want to make even more then you could write erotic literature featuring anthropomorphized animal people, more commonly known as furry porn. Overall you should always be prepared to never make any money from writing. It's quite a gamble no matter what you do.

>>17515815
I never tried writing and would probably suck at it since I am not a native english speaker. My main problem with engineering and science is the dark and evil future that they will bring. I didn't feel always like this but I don't know why I can't stop these thoughts, maybe it started after reading the crisis of the modern world. Are there any jobs left in this world that don't help the clown world?
All I want is to have my books and a minimal amount of money to live.

>>17515501
A wild ride.

>>17515501
A fucking great book.
Make sure you are not sleepy.
Best enjoyed on your mild upper of choice in the sunlight at noon

>>17516046
It's a bitch to do but I think you should write in your native language first to get it down as accurately to what you want as possible and then write a translation to English after you've finished. It'll also give you a bigger market to have two languages that your book is available in.
If all you want to is be able to support yourself so that you can write then pretty much any job will do. Just try to get whatever one you hate the least if its only purpose is to give you just enough money to get by and support your writing.

>>17515726
Browse /biz/

Does anyone have Kaczynski's letter on studying mathematics? He talks about it being a terrible idea and such. It was quite short. Can't seem to find it through google.

>>17516606
Unironically, no one reads in my country. I thought about purchasing an English dictionary and going through it to expand my vocabulary, but I don't think that I'll ever reach a sufficient level for writing. What do you mean any job? Most jobs are being replaced by AI and the only ones left are STEM.

>>17516686
I don't know man. I can't get the idea of digital coins having any value through my head. I also think that it contributes to a future where your entire livelihood can be erased with the press of a button.

>>17511793
You should start with what you want to learn about.

>>17513544
also like to know that

>>17517154
I want to live like this dude: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJIIMmCfJxBv5-jGTK3iIMw

Can we find a way to gas all Evolafags and Guenonfags?

>>17517490
This.

>>17512366
If this is real read summaries https://plato.stanford.edu/

>>17517490
No, sadly, no.

>>17517490
I know you don't like when things get mainstream and many plebs know about it, but in this case I wish everyone (even redditors) knew about traditionalism and embraced it.

>>17517490
I would advice against it because it is precisely the same way to gas you

>>17516774
>Can't seem to find it through google.
Literally did a five-second google search.

>>17519984
What was his problem?

>>17520017
He saw the future of mankind.

>>17519984
Kek

>>17519984
Guys I need a hug from him, he seems to be a nice guy

>>17520066
Which was?

>>17520116
Doom

>>17520119
Doom of what?

>>17520159
Mankind

>>17514991
hapiness is gay

>>17520017
lack of pussy

>>17520217
Doubt he cared about that.

>>17511793
They may be antiquated but their works will have directly influenced whatever you decide to read instead. It's useful to be familiar with them.

>>17520320
that what niggas who get 0 pussy always say

>>17520352
Yeah, but a few 20th denied their teachings.

Is there anywhere better than /lit/?
I'd like to find a place full of intelligent and literate people who I can learn from online that doesn't devolve into mindless shitflinging about politics.
I'd be fine with almost anything aside from plebbit and discord desu

>>17520552
>Is there anywhere better than /lit/?
No, not in a million years

>>17514975
>>17514975
Aristoteles

>>17515501
One of the best books of the 20th century.
Make sure to not gloss over any sentence because every one of them progresses the story and it is very easy to get lost if you're not paying attention

>>17520552
Sadly not, from what I know

>>17520552
This is the best you’ll ever get.

>>17511895
Yes and no.
Yes because you learn how to write, how to make the composition flow, learn what works and what doesn't in an intuitive manner. Someone who doesn't read much and tries to write has no idea how to properly pace things out or what words to use to help keep the reader engaged.

No because as said before, often times people get stuck in an imitation mindset, instead of
>I have and idea about X!
It starts to become
>wow I really liked X in this book. I can do it better!
But in focusing on X they often forget that X was just a minor part of the whole story.

I'd like to start posting some shitty little stories somewhere.
Where would I post them?

I want something like those fanfic sites are where I can just post chapters once every few weeks and people can just read the story and comment on it.

>>17520195
It really isn't. It's the most beautiful feeling ever

>>17520863
https://www.royalroad.com/

>>17520904
I always find it odd, This stuff I mean. Whenever I click on the site I see what amounts to light novel schlock, and I wonder who is the kind of person who uses Royal road for their reading. I’m sure there’s hidden gems of course but it just feels like an odd choice instead of hand selecting with study what book to read. Know what I mean?

Is it because I don’t read modern fantasy that I don’t find this appealing?

Why does this board not like fantasy?

>>17520946
They like to pretend to be intellectuals and not the fourth rate writers and midwife that they are.

>>17520946
We like fantasy, I personally like older fantasy, it’s just in general fantasy is looked down upon as genre fiction, schlock, trope heavy and overly formulaic. But beyond that there’s a daily thread for fantasy anon. In general when anons complain they don’t complain against Lewis Caroll, Macdonald, Dunsany, John Crowley or the like. They don’t even really complain about Wolfe from what I see. They complain about the generic 40 book series that seem to be everywhere filling the market.

>>17520904
Thanks.
>>17520924
If they're like me, I imagine it's joys is schlock.
A lot of these shitty LN ripoff can't be considered good or well written, but they have a charm of their own and they have an idea they want to get out there.
Yeah this dragon rider book I'm reading now is relatively well written, and miles ahead of anything on there. But at the same time it doesn't have the spark I'm looking for when I read LNs. That initial curiosity as you learn more about their gimmicks and the unabashed Gary stus is nice sometimes.

That said, time and a place for it. It gets old really quickly, but thats why reading it online is so nice. No real commitment, just cheap quick entertainment.

>>17521032
Fair enough, when I read fiction I like to really drown in the world and the aesthetic and if I want schlock I basically just watch anime or YouTube. But I see the appeal. Some years ago I used to be a on big kick of trying to consume the absolute worst writing in terms of actual books and even fanfics both as a morbid curiosity and just for the contrast it shows with actually good books. So I can kinda see the reason why you’d want to read something that’s kinda shitty. Ever find any gems in the dirt? Stuff you thought would be trash but was actually very very high quality?

>>17521059
It's not that it's shitty, it's more that they have an idea, a gem so to speak, but don't know how to cut it. Reading them is basically like admiring a natural beauty, its not cut or presented in any appealing way, but you can admire the potential it has and let yourself imagine what it could be like in better hands.

Plus because of the lower stakes, people will try new and failing ideas. Your generic fantasy novel is almost always just the usual rehashed heroes journey. It does it because it works, you need the rise and falls in action to build up to a good and satisfying climax. But in turn no matter what book I pick up, I know it's going to be 1 of 2 stories. Itll be the budding hero discovering themselves, or it'll be the old jaded hero who rediscovers their light and passion. LN writers don't have a problem going off on pointless tangents or just having climax after climax without building it up, makes for a shitty story, but damn it's nice to break the mold.

>>17521164
Thanks anon that makes sense, eh maybe I’ll give it a shot and read some myself. Maybe it’s fun to see how their skills refine chapter to chapter yeah.

>>17520871
sensitive experience is not a goal

>>17520159
Eternal

>>17521164
Honestly, this.

>>17521176
I know its not a goal. However, I'd never achieve any goal without it

>>17520945
What's wrong with that selection?

>>17511793
90% of Greek /lit/ holds up. Greek Folk wisdom is still practical. Greek poetry is still artful. Greek Philosophy is still the gold standard and no, Platonism has never been "refuted" or anything of the sort.

>>17511723
Any reason why /lit/ has such abhorrence towards adverbs?

>>17521339
Just people trying to pretend to be writers.

>>17520159
Of the leftist menace.

>>17520924
Some people just read for simple entertainment and nothing more.

Requesting an autistic explanation yet a quick rundown on punctuation, sentence structure, and paragraph structure.

>>17521285
Idunno, feels like a bunch of YA novels, just not the thing I find appealing personally.

>>17521339
I personally think they’re highly effectI’ve and lovely especially when the right ones are chosen. Dunsany has a lovely lecture on his prose and poetic style, he demonstrates how pseudo-adverbs are the signs of a degrading language and how a well placed one can really bring up a work. Always found him agreeable there.
>>17521441
I mean so do i at times anon.

Books on finding yourself/masculinity/letting go? I’m in a tough spot in life generally and need a guide

>>17521486
>Requesting an autistic explanation yet a quick rundown on punctuation, sentence structure, and paragraph structure.
Jesus fucking christ, it's like /wg/ with people asking pointless shit they can find by searching this shit up on Google/Bing/duckduckgo, etc.

>>17520863
There's also fictionpress which is like fanfiction but with original stories.
https://www.fictionpress.com/

Anyone got any /his/ charts tried there but no one answered me yet.

Can anyone rec me some GOOD Wuxia/Xianxia/Xuanhuan?
I've already read Cradle, Coiling Dragon, Desolate Era, Tales of Demons and Gods, Against the Gods, Renegade Immortal and like a dozen other shitty ones that I dropped because of their nonexistant plot or garbage esl tier prose.
I need something that has a satisfying power progression of a man going from weak to strong in a dog eats dog world.

>>17521508
Try googling it.

>>17521707
gives me mixed answers anon

Why the fuck are some people able to become published authors in their 30's with only a handful of years writing and others spend 25 years writing never to be published. How is writing not genetic?

>>17521748
Because people feel for the traditional publishing meme and refuse to go with the alternative publishing.

>>17521743
Then find the ones you like, fucking hell, stop being a dithering bitch and do something.

>>17521779
>alternative publishing.
Tell me more.

>>17521748
Literally any retard can get published. It's piss easy. It doesn't mean you'll get published or promoted by a big licensed brand though.

>>17521939
What do you mean it's piss easy?

>>17522062
easily obtained or achieved, anon.

What happened to lit quarterly?

Why the fuck do people here want to write as if there were in the 19th, and 20th centuries? Fucking hell just write in modern times.

>>17522083
Why not google search it and find out?

>>17522107
Because I want all my information spoon fed to me.

>>17522099
It’s fun, I honestly just try to write how I think and since I (and I think this applies to a lot of us here) saturate my mind with older materials, the writing reflects this. I personally like to go for a much older style but I think that fits my content and favorite ideas, I could see how that’d be difficult for a lot of other anons though.

But tell me what you dislike the most about the pastiche heavy writing style anon.

>>17522241
>But tell me what you dislike the most about the pastiche heavy writing style anon.
Hate it because other anons insist I write the same way even when it makes no sense.

>>17511723
>http://b-ok.org/
Is it inaccessible for anyone else?

>>17522260
Oh that’s senseless then anon, there’s a time and place for everything and different styles definitely should exist.

>>17522265
Make it b-ok.cc they changed it.

>>17519984
Thank you, much appreciated. I thought I tried a variety of terms, though I did use ddg.

>>17522270
>Make it b-ok.cc they changed it.
Thanks!

>>17522276
Literally the first image in google.

>>17522270
>there’s a time and place for everything and different styles definitely should exist.
Oh, definitely, I just don't think an 18-year-old in the 2010s is going to talk like a man in the 19th, and 20th centuries.

>>17522690
Definitely, but I’ve noticed a lot of anons make des esseintes-esque self inserts to justify their language and mannerisms from what I’ve seen anyways. And that can work pretty well ya know.

>>17522703
>des esseintes-esque self inserts to justify their language and mannerisms from what I’ve seen anyways. And that can work pretty well ya know.
Good on them, and I wish them well, but my character isn't like that one bit. He might say an outdated phrase mentally but that's it.

Could someone recommend me a few books for middle/high school kids? A friend asked me to help him find some books for kids because his nephew wants to read in English (non native speaker)

>>17522899
Holes by Louis Sacha?

>>17522899
I don't know what kids these days would like to read, but at high school age I was reading a lot of Agatha Christie. Other authors from mystery genre would be very suitable too, but her style is not so dense, so she is always a good choice for younger reader.
Short story collections from the Arsène Lupin series would be good too, teenagers love it when some fun guy sticks it to the police.
Jules Verne is great for young readers. Generally all adventure books are great.
Colonel Clay by Grant Allen
Sexton Blake by various authors (created by Harry Blyth under pseudonym Hal Meredeth, but taken over by as much as 200 of other authors for almost 100 years)

>>17522899
Redwall?

>>17520863
archiveofourown.org
That's the best one I know of. You can post whatever you want so long as you aren't using it to advertise. Other sites seem to invariably have certain restrictions on the content that can be posted.

>>17523049
>archiveofourown.org
The search engine is shit though.

>>17523096
https://archiveofourown.org/works/search
You mean this or the one up in the top right under the login button?

>>17514844
mogu mogu

>>17522915
>>17522948
>>17522996
Thanks, I'll look them up

>>17519984
And I suppose those super smart machines are just going to be programmed on semantics. No maths allowed?

>>17523127
Glad I could help, anon.

>>17523153
Did you read the letter?

>>17522899
Ranger's Apprentice

>>17523816
Oh, nice.

>>17523428
No.

>>17522467
you know Google gives you different results based on your previous search history and the sites you visit, right?

>>17524591
I actually did not.

>>17519984
I would honestly read any book he writes.

>>17525250
He did wrote a few books.

If I accidentally submitted the wrong version of my short story to the Lit Quarterly. Should I just try re-submitting it and explain what happened in the "Your Message" section?

>>17525291
Names?

>>17525386
it doesn't matter

Bump.

>>17514914
Read the Meno, the Phaedrus, the Phaedo, the Crito, the Euthyphro, or even the Symposium before the Republic IF you get lost in the Republic. The Meno in particular will give you lots to think about and it's shorter. The rest all have some of the most discussed dilemmas in Plato and in philosophy in general in them.

However, if you can read and enjoy the Republic just fine, then just do that and have fun. I am only saying this for if you bounce off the Republic and feel unsure why.

>>17521629
Black Company

How do I read
I want to read books but my dopamine receptors have been friend from years of porn weed and video games. Tried Infinite Jest but got bored, now reading Crime and Punishment and about 2/3 through it but losing interest

>>17526450
Nice.

What is the relationship between pure mathematics and platonism? Is the mathematical world is a type of a world of ideas? I heard people saying that mathematicians are platonists in essence, is that true?

>>17512062
yes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bAZqE2DnxUI

>>17526481
literally just pure will, force yourself to do it.

>>17526481
read 20 pages a day

>>17526481
Read good books you enjoy until your brain detaches from the physical compulsion to consume dopamine drip garbage like a fat person craving handfuls of processed sugar, then transition to books that are more challenging. Notice I said good books you enjoy, not shit books you enjoy (like total filth YA), since those are often empty sugar themselves. Just don't read good books you DON'T enjoy until it's more rewarding. Infinite Jest is the worst thing you could start with.

Also rid yourself of the bullshit belief that literature necessarily means modernist or postmodern literature from the last 150 years. That stops a lot of people from reading. I don't enjoy realist nonfiction at all, and I don't like postmodern crap either. I also hate Latin American magical realism because it's just meandering and gay. Go read The Warwolf by Hermann Löns, or something by Hesse, or Tarka the Otter or Call of the Wild or Watership Down. Just accustom your fucked up brain to reading on fun (but quality) stuff while staying away from instant gratification garbage. As your soul recovers from its coma you will start to appreciate Dostoesvsky more. Or rather, you will start to rediscover the objectively important and deeper dimensions of life that are lost when all you do is suck down mass media sugarcum all day, and the light from those deeper dimensions will shine naturally on Dostoevsky and illuminate him differently.

Remember, you're basically asking "how can I stop being a slime mold who toils to earn credit chits half the day, then trades the chits back to my boss for a half day's worth of mindless happiness goo." Whatever the answer entails by way of concrete details, the answer will always be "any way you can," unless you want to remain a goo eating subhuman. So when >>17527767 says pure willpower, he isn't joking. You're choosing right now between being a 60 year old man someday who spent the last 40 years turning himself into a retard (imagine how bad alzheimers is going to spike as millennials and zoomers start to hit old age), or a multi-dimensional person with a rich inner life. There are higher stakes here than "i'm boredddddddd."

>>17527711
They mean because maths is a set of seemingly pre-given and necessarily true relations, which means they are ideal and pre-exist our contingent selves. It's a mystery going back to Plato himself that anyone, even a child slave with no prior education (read the Meno) can start learning geometry, and everyone will more or less agree on the apodictic certainty of geometrical demonstration. Euclidean geometry is one giant exercise in "if you see x, xa, and xb for yourself, you MUST consent to xc."

But they are also ignorant of the history of mathematics, which has tried for a long time to found mathematics on "platonically certain" foundations. In fact the ancient Greeks had enough problems with this themselves, since they took geometrical proof to be more or less intuitively certain (you can't not see a square as having four sides), but how symbolic representations (algebra) and wider language and thought related to geometry is another thing. And whether ideal geometry really exists or exists only in our ideas is another thing.

It's obviously attractive to think that nature is ideally and mathematically structured. That's why Kepler was so excited when he thought he had found divine mathematical ratios and shapes in nature. Imagine his dismay when he found out the orbits are elliptical and messy, and the mathematical regularities underlying nature are much much deeper, if they exist at all.

Everyday modern mathematicians carry forward this platonism because, just like for the Euclideans 2300 years ago, the sheer feeling of progression and proof in mathematics is beautiful and seems to suggest something more stable and harmonious beyond the contingent self. They are still excited by what Descartes called the "clear and distinct ideas" they have when they imagine mathematical relations. But the maths they do is very contingent, based not on clear and distinct ideas but on evolving discourses of mathematics, many of which have prosaic applications. Calculus itself is perfectly contingent. It is unbelievably beautiful and Newton's achievements with it shocked the entire enlightened world but there is nothing magical about calculus. Also the ancient Greeks, for all their "mathematical platonism," would find modern mathematics, with its suggestion that approximation techniques like calculus can ever reach true identities, and especially its divorce of algebra from concrete intuitive geometry, baffling and probably disgusting. Greek love of mathematics was love the manifest irreducible truth of geometry for the most part, and mathematical systems closely related to geometry, like the study of ratios and trigonometry.

>>17528133
>>17527711
Higher philosophical mathematics kind of fell apart around 1900. Intuitionists (and some phenomenologists (Husserl's early work on maths) tried to base it on Kantian intuition and never produced great results. Formalists didn't fare much better. True logicism was based on a metaphysical rationalism that no one holds to anymore, since the foundations of logic are generally regarded to be linguistic and conventional (if deeply felt) at this point. Despite all this, people kept doing maths, because, again, maths "works" as a pre-given. The problem is that, now, a deep critique of mathematics would say that this pre-givenness is a cultural phenomenon, not something innate in the mind, much less in reality.

The leftover platonism in mathematics is mostly a result of ignorance of these depressing movements and collapses in mathematical epistemology. But that's probably a good thing, since it keeps the flame of fascination with the brute reality of mathematical truthiness alive and hopefully will cause a new generation to try to solve these problems. I think that would require going back to the original situation of the Greeks, with their focus on what is truly primordial and "given" in mathematics and NOT subject to cultural construction and re-construction, namely the intuitive givenness of geometry. Personally I think the "givenness" of apodicticity (self-evidence) in proofs is pretty boring, obviously culturally and psychologically contingent, something that would enrage a Fregean or other logicist if you said it. Wittgenstein wrote a good short book on it, Remarks on the Foundations of Mathematics (very hard read, warning). But if we do want to get back to what math is, platonically, we need to not make it not an all or nothing affair. You can give up the fucking apodicticity of set theory but maintain the platonicity (even pythagoreanicity) of math.

That's sort of what Kant did. Kant said that our minds are built to see the world geometrically, as a 3D manifold of space and time, more or less. So we always already have that manifold, and then we add all our discoveries about it ("synthetic a priori") to create a mathematical language which is culturally shared, and guaranteed insofar as it correctly expresses the properties of the manifold. Of course modern post-riemannian physics has probemelatised this, but not fundamentally. There are also platonic esoterics who think that we can train ourselves to see in higher dimensions because of these developments. Basically, our Kantian intuition is not innate, but is just the equilibrium state of spiritual development we've currently reached. Our abstract knowledge of higher dimensions, proved to some extent by the empirical fruit it has borne, is pulling us onward to a higher state of comprehension.

bump

Can someone give me an honest answer of getting a novel published with 0 connections?

>>17528866
Publishing agen has to like your work if you have any chance of succeeding.

>>17527797
Okay then what?

I bought my mum this book a few days ago at a charity sale, just because it I recognised the Bronte name and it looked nice, and was only a quid. She's since decided she doesn't want to read it and has given it me back, is it actually any good?

>>17530225
No, and I say that as someone who has read that book.

>>17530261
Alright I'll keep that in mind. I did read the first few paragraphs just to see what's what, and the prose seems pretty good, but idk, it's probably something I'll give at least a go in the far future.

>>17530225
why doesn't she want to? the brontes are special, you should read it anon

>>17530436
Each their own, anon, I just didn't have all that great experience.

>>17528866
Extremely difficult unless you write something leftist.

>>17531604
Any proof of this?

>>17531857
Several.

>>17530225
You’re a good son.

Any book recommendations for a guy who hasn't read anything since high school?

>>17531991
What’s you’re interest in genre?

>>17519984
damn I wish my hand writing was this legible

>>17531991
something below 200 pages

>>17532117
No particular interest in genre, a fiction book about anything will do.

>>17511723
stop making thread

>>17525444
Technological Slavery
Anti-Tech Revolution
ISAIF (obviously)

>>17531991
Short story collections from Arsène Lupin series by Maurice Leblanc. Just look up the name on wikipedia.
Would have recommended Fantômas, but I see the page count might turn you off, even though one can read it relatively fast.

>>17532570
Animefags are the only ones who care about the quality of this board.

>>17532446
Well, I recommend this manga, if you want. It puts an interesting spin on the whole love triangle between two female friends.

>>17530213
Your goal was to read right? Mission accomplished

>>17532911
And what do I do after finishing reading?

>>17532959
You’re done that what you wanted to do

>>17532742
Seems interesting, I’ll read it.

>>17530641
Well tbf, it's not really any surprise since she doesn't really ever read, and then it's only like fuckin Polish middle-aged divorcee bestsellers. I gave her The Old Man and the Sea last year and even that was too much for her to handle.

>>17531989
Thank you

>>17533397
Just give her some easy books.

>>17520863
archiveofourown
Royalroad
Fictionpress
Wattpad
Wordpress

There's no rule saying that you have to post your story on only one website, so you should branch out and post your story on as many websites as possible, specifically under the same pseudonym so that you get as many followers as possible.

>>17533424
I've offered her all sorts of stuff, but she's always said no.

>>17533532
Why not give her books from her childhood? Let the nostalgia factor help you.

>>17533532
Honestly, you should do this, >>17533558

>>17532742
The fuck is going on?

Is Jane Austen the best author whose surname starts with an A?

>>17533828
No. Marcus Aurelius.

Should I keep a list of every words encountered which I didn’t know with their meaning? Or should I just try to guess by context? Looking to expand my vocabulary though.

Why is /lit/ such a /pol/ shitshow?
I can only assume that it's because retards think books are intellectual or someshit so they come here to feel good about themselves, not realizing that literature is literally just cheap entertainment and circlejerks.

>>17534202
You don’t have to keep a list unless you’re motivated enough to, but you should definitely look words up.

>>17534521
Pretentious faggots, the lot of them.

>>17511723
BOOKS written for incels or that incels can identify with/understand?

>>17534867
תַּלְמוּד

>>17534867
Old Testament.

>>17535085
New Testament is better.

Is being 25 years old too old to learn Latin, Greek, and German?

>>17535238
No, stop being a fag and looking for excuse to not learn and go do it.

>>17520320
He cared a lot about it and it drove his actions more than you think. There was a long thread on /pol/ about his memoirs and interviews with his family/friends. I think he kind of got over it when he started getting massive female attention in prison like how serial killers get.

>>17535238
No not at all. You could be reading in two if not three of them by summer. But take it seriously and make it your goal, don't do what everybody who isn't being absolutely forced does and just talk about it for ten years. Do it every day, make it a daily ritual.

Hesiod: "If you put a little on a little, soon this too will become big."

>>17511723
Books on how to stop being an incel?

>>17535252
>>17535336
Should I learn 3 of them during the same time-period or would it be wiser to learn them more-or-less one by one?

>>17511723
please guys, I want some gritty action books.

>>17535515
No.

>>17534521
>not realizing that literature is literally just cheap entertainment and circlejerks.
Someone didn't like your Harry Potter thread?
>retards think books are intellectual or someshit so they come here to feel good about themselves
This has always been the case, nothing to do with /pol/

>>17536382

>>17511793
Start with something that interests you. If it alludes to the Greeks, learn about the Greeks. If it alludes to Eastern philosophy, learn about that. You'll learn a lot simply by having the intention of understanding every sentence in a text and putting in a bit of effort to do so.

>>17536383
It’s the truth

>>17535515
Read Guy N. Smith if you want utter trash about dudes getting ripped in half by giant crabs or crazed animal rights activists accidentally petrol bombing themselves when trying to stop noble, elderly, definitely not author stand-in hunters from shooting man-eating panthers and fucking women 40 years their junior.

With prose like "the heat began to melt her voluptous breasts, nipples burning like candles", how could you ask for more?

>>17537948
>"the heat began to melt her voluptous breasts, nipples burning like candles"

>>17535418
One by one, how is this even a question?

>>17538534
People are honestly retarded.

>>17538057
What’s wrong with what’s written?

>>17539683

>began to melt
>burning like candles

>>17540340
Seems fine to me.

>>17540855
Seems like body horror to me.

>>17539683
it's bad

>>17535418
I personally don't see a problem with learning Latin + German (then Greek later when you're ok at Latin) or even all three if you're really dedicated. At minimum, it's certainly not impossible to have two language hobbies at once. I'm always in a state of learning a few languages because I just do it for fun. I try to go through books and get up to the point that I can read poorly, then just read 30-60mins a day in my target language until I get better.

Why is it that the more abstract something is, and the less concrete any rationalizations of it's elements become, the more people tend to project or have to make an opinion based argument regarding it's nature? I have this vague sense of plato's forms and the notion that our perspectives are merely too narrow to conceptualize the entirety of these "vast" concepts, leading us to have such a unique slice of already far-reaching ideas, which is usually offset by the fact that some people will not be able to see the premised object merely because it isnt "wide" enough to at all fill any portion of their perspective, so to speak. For example, if I asked anyone to explain what they think the world is, they would each have a very narrow perspective of a very big idea that would essentially be a fingerprint of their identity. While something like stenography would be something not a lot of people have any perspective of. (btw this concept of narrow lenses and plato's forms answered my own question but ill still post this) Also, if there are ideas that are too broad for any individual to rationalize, does that mean that something out there must exist that can explain everything? Or is there really just an unknowable vastness to the universe and it's many facets of abstractions? (like an upside down tree or some shit except with the father of existence at the top so to speak) One last thing, please feel free to denounce this reductionist approach and habit of generalization if you'd like I feel like there's some false dichotomy shit going on in my thinking if u can tell what it is.

>>17511723
Also, considering the overlap between perspectives, and thus the maximum of unique non-overlapping segments (like the right and left-most parts of a venn-diagram, wouldn't the totality of humanity have a singular maximum perspective? Everything within the bounds of human understanding? What do you call that amalgam? Humanity itself? The collective consciousness? The basis for the categorical (human) imperative? Is this epistemology? Or does that include non-human knowledge???

>>17541341
>>17541401

>>17511793
Their teachings aren't antiquated at all.

>>17533532
Stop bothering your mother you weirdo

What does /lit/ think of Leo Strauss

why didn't crime and punishment have a sequel

>>17512196
This is pretty subjective

>>17542229
There was no need for a sequel, because the story of Raskolnikov was over.

>>17542183
shit

>>17540940
Thanks anon sounds good. I'll try to take it easy at first though since this is my first time learning a new language.

>>17542336
this

>>17542229
It didn’t need one.

>>17511895
For you to become a better writer you have to write a lot.

>>17512366
>Anons, my parents have been bothering me lately wanting me to explain them why is greek philosophy important to life.
I fucking doubt it.

BUMP
Does anyone know any good nonfiction booktubers?
And by nonfiction, I mean nonfiction excluding biographies, memoirs, travel diaries etc.

>>17511723
What is the word count cutoff between a short story, a novella, and a novel

>>17545849
wow, that wasn't hard to google at all
https://www.masterclass.com/articles/word-count-guide