/lit/ - Literature

What's the Shogun 2 of science fiction and fantasy books?

>>17494661
Chinese web novels?

Why aren't you reading Worth the Candle yet, /sffg/? It's a rational self-insert litrpg isekai webnovel by Alexander Wales, and it's the best piece of writing I have read in years. Currently at 1,418,177 words, it's over FOURTEEN NOVELS' worth of free content, and still ongoing!

https://archiveofourown.org/works/11478249/chapters/25740126
https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/25137/worth-the-candle

>It's a self-insert litRPG portal fantasy, loosely based on my personal experience of falling into a portal to another world and discovering that I had a character sheet attached to my soul. This story uses some custom CSS for the character sheet and definition tags to allow mouseover on various game terms, so mobile and touchscreen users, you're missing out.
>Update schedule is, as always, whenever I feel like it. Special thanks to the people of /r/rational for helping me think about ideas.

The setup is that Juniper "Joon" Smith, an ordinary suicidal rationalist teenager who has been on a self-destructive downwards spiral ever since the tragic death of his best friend Arthur, suddenly finds himself transported from English class to the magical land of Aerb and given RPG abilities along with a quest system and achievements. Specifically, he finds himself dropped into the Risen Lands, an abandoned hellzone filled with undead used by the government as a trail by ordeal. There, he meets the most beautiful woman in the world, Princess Amaryllis Penndraig, who has been falsely accused of a crime by her power-hungry family in a bid to claim her substantial assets. Now, the two of them must team up to escape the Risen Lands alive while unraveling the hints that Amaryllis's great ancestor, Uther Penndraig, may be someone Juniper knew in his past life.

And that's just the tutorial!

I'm reading LotR right now, on RotK. What is Tolkien's best work outside of the bigbois?

>>17494709

What really sets this story apart is the intelligence of the characters, the plot or the setting.

There are no idiot balls, failures to communicate, or any other form of artificial conflict; Joon and Mary act exactly the way you would expect smart, rational, mature adults who are trying to survive and achieve their goals to act. Their every move, from which quest to tackle next to how to optimize Juniper's build to whether to trust this or that stranger is discussed and analyzed in excruciating detail as the life-or-death choices they are. Personal and romantic issues are brought into the open and worked-on rather than allowed to fester for umpteenth installments as they would be in a typical anime. Juniper is incredibly well-read and a veteran Dungeon Master with a ton of experience in worldbuilding, while Amaryllis is a workaholic with a gift for diplomacy and management. Both of their skillsets get a lot of use in the story.

Aerb is an extremely detailed and coherent setting. Everything from the mechanics of travel on a hexagonal grid to the logistics of bulk-teleportation to the economics of magic items has been accounted for and integrated into the story. More than once, these details turn out to be the key to solving this or that puzzle.

The plot is hard to explain without spoiling anything, but rest assured that there IS a rational explanation for everything, up to an including why a random Kansas teenager was transported to a fantasy realm and gifted with magical powers.

Overall, if you are the kind of person who likes Greg Egan or (early) Larry Niven, you will not be disappointed with this story.

>>17494683
No, something that's set in either the genpei, boshin wars or the sengoku jidai. Or just weeb samurai stuff w/ a strong historical tinge to it that's /lit/.

>>17494451
Got a hot take that's going to visibly upset some people. The Ars Arcanum at the end of each Sanderson story is presented as an in-universe scholarly writing from a character named Khriss, a top scholar from the cosmere world of Silverlight. For background, Silverlight is, as far as the reader is aware, the most technologically advanced post-shattering society in all of the cosmere. That's how scholars like Khriss are able to travel from world to world and study Investiture systems on other planets to create the Ars Arcanum for each book.

In the Ars Arcanum for Rhythm of War, the reader is treated to notes on stoneshaping, Venli's ability to manipulate solid rock, for the first time. While discussing stoneshaping, Khriss refers to the necessity of Intent on stoneshaping. It's in this section where Khriss, one of the brightest minds of the most advanced society in the entire fictional universe, points to Navani's discovery of anti-Investiture as a LONG HYPOTHESIZED THEORY! Navani has just proven the existence of a substance that has eluded scholars on the most technologically advanced planet in the universe! None of which would have been accomplished without Raboniel's help.

tl;dr Navani 100% played the millennia old immortal and is actually a brilliant scholar on the cutting edge of Investiture theory and she doesn't even know it. Pic related

I'm about to dive into the Terry Pratchett books, and I just wanted to know /lit/'s thoughts on them since I trust your guys' judgement. Which books do I start with? I heard it's a little complicated and messy.

/sffg/, does anyone else get a massive kick out of reading genius MCs inventing, learning and strategizing?

I grew up believing the whole "gifted kid" spiel, but crashed in college, so it's absolutely self-insert power fantasy appeal, but it reminds me of better times and because I'm bipolar it gets my hypomania racing

>>17494451
The Sword of Truth series is legitimately good until the book after Faith of the Fallen, which is the best fantasy book written in the 2000s. The series immediately becomes terrible after it.

>>17494789
I can't remember which that was, I dropped it when there was an ENTIRE BOOK about three peasants from bumfuck doing fuck all for ages, and then in the end, when they're FINALLY going to fucking accomplish something, the actual MC shows up, kills all of them in 3 seconds, the girl asks "what was up with those guys?" and he says something like "probably nothing important" and continues on as if it never happened. I mean, it's hilarious in retrospect, but the actual experience reading it was torture.

>>17494451
I hate niggers

>>17494812
lol shit I remember that. That’s the thing I remove most from reading the sword of truth books as a kid

>>17494812
I'm pretty sure that's the book right after Faith of the Fallen. That's when I dropped the series; it went from something totally awesome to unbearable in just one book.

>>17494848
*remember most

>>17494713

Children of Hurin. Underrated as hell probably because of how bleak the ending.

>>17494451
>Thread topic: Post the most controversial /sffg/ opinion you have, see how roasted you get.

Fantasy seems so gay and girly, i'll probably never read one. Only here for the sci-fi.

>>17494853
Not the magical objectivism conversion statue that automatically makes anyone who views it into John Galt?
Not Richard LITERALLY cucking himself to death and then sulking about it in hell?
Okay yeah, those were fun-stupid, like the rape witches, and the rape dungeon, and the demon-rape nunnery, and the rape god, and the magical rape collars.

I like power metal. Give me fantasy books that make me think of power metal. Now.

>>17494451
>Post the most controversial /sffg/ opinion you have, see how roasted you get.
2001: A Space Odyssey sucks ass.

>>17494709
>>17494715
Stop posting this fucking pasta

>>17494451
the way of kings is probably one of the best fantasy books written

>>17494451
Hard science fiction, hard fantasy, and rational fanfiction are the only fiction genres worth reading.

>>17494942
>hard fantasy
What would you classify as hard fantasy? I'd like to see if my own work matches up with that.

It sounds like you're referring to epic fantasy.

>>17494969
Sanderson.

>>17494752
Start with guards! Guards! and then go from there

>>17494976
>Sanderson.
Ah. That makes sense. I'm fairly certain that my own world techs up faster than his does, though.

>>17494909
>2001: A Space Odyssey sucks ass.
The movie or the book?

>>17495041
Both.

>>17495063
The War of the Worlds is terrible, too.

>>17495063
Cool

>>17495041
Why does this website have such a massive problem with contrarianism?

>>17495077
I have no idea what you mean

>>17495077
Huh? I mean I only half agree. The movie is overrated. The book is good though, in my opinion.

>>17494451
Iain M. Banks's The Culture is Star Trek for grownups.

>>17495149
There is no such thing as fiction "for grownups".

>>17494451
>most controversial /sffg/ opinion
that's easy. discord is good

>thread topic actually getting some traction for once
Nice.

>>17494876
>Fantasy seems so gay and girly, i'll probably never read one.
It's just perspective. Modern fantasy, for example, is almost embarrassed to BE fantasy so it uses it as backdrop for whatever author actually wants to talk about.

>>17495157
Would you read The Metamorphosis of Prime Intellect to a child as a nighttime story? No? Then there is such a thing as fiction for grownups, you pedantic dipshit.

>>17495067
Careful, anon, don't down it all right away.

>>17495299
Having an intended audience doesn't make it "for" that audience. Every book is a children's book if the kid can read it.

>>17494451
Gene Wolf is for self-loathing sff fans who have pretensions of being literary.

>>17495299
I also wouldn't read it to myself, since it's shit.

>>17495246
It's almost like modern fantasy authors are afraid that they'll get made fun of for writing fantasy. The characters in their stories don't even treat the fictional worlds as real most of the time.

>>17495412
I hardly ever say this, but incredibly, deeply filtered

>>17494451
"Magical Realism" is just a term for fantasy for Latino authors who are too afraid of getting judged for writing fantasy.

>>17495581
Incredibly based and correct
Had one of them for a creative writing class. Pathetic

>>17495581
fucking wrong. 100 years of solitude has nothing to do with dungeons and dragons bullshit. If you put it in a 'fantasy' section 99% of people who bought it would say "what the fuck is this?"

>>17494661

What do you mean? A place where people refuse to use shields in ballte?

>>17495598
Magical realism is just as much of fantasy as LOTR or Harry Potter.

>>17494942

>hard
>fantasy

>rational
>fanfiction

W.T.F.

>>17495630
The cultural genealogy is completely distinct. One Hundred Years of Solitude is influenced more by Faulkner than anything related to the fantasy genre.

>>17495581

Yes, but the book you posted is not "magical realism", its a long family epic with pseudo historical happenings, basically a mixup of the Latin American experience between independence and the beginning of the XX century.

>>17494451
>Post the most controversial /sffg/ opinion you have
Science fiction has been over for about a decade and just about none of what has been written in the genre since belongs in it.

>>17495622
That's easy, it's Dune.

>>17495647
Wasn't me, whoever posted it probably just searched for magical realism and that came up first

>>17495650
the whole reason people in dune use knives is because they've got personal shields that make lasers backfire and explode. they can only be penetrated by blades using a special technique.

>>17495888
As remember it also makes the shields explode.

>>17494451
Binti: The Complete Trilogy - Nnedi Okorafor
Three relatively short novellas and a novelette form this trilogy. Yes, I'm aware that's four. I apparently confused this with some other book about going to a galactic university and now I've no idea what it was that I was thinking of.
The protagonist is the first of her tribe to be offered admission to the university where only 5% of the students are human and the vast majority aren't even humanoid. So, she goes and on the way an atrocity occurs and she spends rest of the trilogy trying to deal with her PTSD and panic attacks. The school part itself is far too short. It was at its best when it was there and should've only been there.
There are many twists, especially the near, but they're so entirely ridiculous in a terrible way. Some of them, especially the final one, seem to be there to be absurdist humor that mocks genre conventions and expectations, but it really didn't work for me. Even when not being read as serious, though I think it's intended to be serious, there are so many deus ex machina, utterly incoherent plotlines, rushed ideas, inchoate worldbuilding, and mysterious characterizations, that it that beggars belief. Together it gives the feeling of being entirely insubstantial, incomplete, and unfinished. There's a lot that just feels missing from it in general. This should've been a comic or tv series.

Binti: 2.5/5 (18%)
Binti Sacred Fire: 3/5 (10%)
Binti Home: 2.5/5 (30%)
Binti The Night Masquerade: 2/5 (42%)
That comes out to a weighted average of 2.34

>>17495890
yes. one could obliterate a whole army by throwing a ball that shoots lasers in every direction, but mentats weren't big brained enough for that idea.
there might have been something like that in one of the last books, though?

>>17495902
Shame it didn't turn out any better. The plot synopsis sounds really interesting.

>>17495902
>especially the near
especially near the end,
I corrected this in notepad++ but forgot to paste it back into the textbox here. Oh well.

Recommend me a comfy book about spaceship crew. Something like The Expanse but comfier.

>>17495957
It seems I'll ever be a fool for an interesting seeming plot.

>>17494976
No.
That would be shit fantasy.

>>17494451

You know that Golden Age sci-fi thing where the whole story/novel was just an excuse to geek out about this or that physical concept or engineering idea, with indistinguishable cardboard cutout characters infodumping each other for several pages about things they should already know? The writing style that "Masters of the Metropolis" and "If all stories were written like science fiction stories" were written to parody?

http://web.archive.org/web/20091216091121/http://www.shrovetuesdayobserved.com/flight.html

I LOVE that writing style. It is the perfect match for hard science fiction. By using it, you can keep the focus on ideas and the sensawunda, which is hard science fiction's strength, and ignore unnecessary crap that gets in the way like "character development" and "story arcs".

>>17494451
I'm about to read the journey to the west because it seems pretty integral to chinese webnovel culture.
What am I in for?

>>17494709
What horrible tasting pasta.

>TQ
>Thread topic: Post the most controversial /sffg/ opinion you have, see how roasted you get.
Tolkien ruined fantasy, western fantasy as a whole would be in a much better place right now if frodo had died at the end instead.

>>17496153
You can actually get some good writing in that style if your characters are scientists and engineers, but then it sort of feels like a self indulgent tale.

>>17496161
>>17496153
Also if you've ever met autistic engineers and biologists you'll know that info dumps is literally how they communicate.

>>17496166
Literally nerd out: the writing style.

>>17494742
Isn’t Navani the one with Stockholm Syndrome?

>>17494451
>Space Station edition
My characters are currently on a massive space station and I’m afraid I’m not doing it justice. Describing the rooms and the view outside the window just seem to be lacking. I feel like I’m writing an among us fanfiction or something.

>>17496238
>I feel like I’m writing an among us fanfiction or something.

You are, also if you can't do it justice just ham it up and mention them not coping with the vastness of space or the dull hum of recycled air.

>>17496018
Quarter Share

>>17496270
>if you can't do it justice just ham it up
That’s basically what I did was tout in a ton of cliches. Example:
The elevator opened to the 7th floor. Before them a white hallway walled to the right with windows. Magenta and mulberry danced with each other in the starry sea outside. The windows made these halls quite a bit chillier than the rest of the station. Being cold blooded, the two really never seemed to notice much. How could anyone though, with the sight of heaven right there? It did not matter how many times any member of the group looked at it. Without a doubt, one of them would stop for just a second to exhale and appreciate the silky flow of the solar system. Gold streams ran between the interstellar clouds, illuminating their fluffy shapes. Moving, yet still. Liquid, yet gas. Timeless, yet always changing. A child can imagine what the ocean looks like while living in a landlocked country. Yet, that child never knows for sure the extent of what seeing the ocean in real life would be like. Perhaps, it was not even all that it was cracked out to be, so the child forgets to even ponder the existence of the ocean as they grow older. Really, it is not until that very child has grown into a young adolescent and are shipped off to war in some foreign country do they see the ocean for the first time. Ephemeral shock occurs before the ability to appreciate the scene. Tears as salty as the waves ahead roll down. Suddenly, the realization of how small and precious life is comes over our individual. The ocean is a smooth rock from the distance and a serrated edged knife in close proximity. Like the ocean, once one has experienced the beauty of it’s evergoing mystery, it’s wideness, that cannot be forgotten. It cannot be taken for granted in the same way again, for the ignorance of it’s grandness is gone forever.
“That nebula over there is shaped like a penis.”

Read Traveler's Gate. Simon is a strong MC who shits all over Lindon.
>A horrible realization dawned on Simon. "It was you. You were the reason that the sacrifice came to Myria. You're why all those people are dead."
>Depending on her answer, Simon was quite prepared to summon Azura and cut her down in the street, even if he would not survive her long.

>"I remember," Simon interrupted. His voice went flat, and anger surged once again in his chest. He desperately hoped that she didn't have anything to do with sending Cormac into that cave, because if she was responsible for the death of his mother...
>He didn't know what the penalty was for killing a member of the Damascan royal family, but he would do his best to find out.

>>17496197
Are you the one who doesn't actually know what Stockholm syndrome is? Seriously, the people the syndrome is named for literally fought the police to keep their captors from being captured. It's not even in the same ballpark as working with the enemy to exploit their knowledge.

>>17496197
Yes, but I would call it mild treason. Calling her dumb doesn’t do it justice. But that’s just one of the multiple inconsistencies in the book.

What is the Mushoku Tensei of /sffg/?

Wolfe > Bakker

>>17496480
Probably that guy who tried to copywrite Litrpg and then spawned the whole genre craze. Just like tensei spawned the whole isekai thing

Read Bakker.

>>17496431
Sanderson really can’t write compelling characters, can he?

>>17494752
Publication order, anything else is for simps

>>17496981
Every bigger female character of Sanderson is a Mary Sue.

>>17496160
>Tolkien ruined fantasy, western fantasy as a whole would be in a much better place right now if frodo had died at the end instead.
Let’s be honest for a moment. What did Tolkien actually accomplish? He was the first one that really delved into world building. He was a decent writer as well.
That’s all he did. No more, no less.

>>17497349
>20th century Sanderson

>>17496981
Taravangian is fantastic, Dalinar used to be pretty compelling, less so now.

>>17496493
It's embarrassing that this has to be posted and isn't just known.

>>17494661
The last gasp of quality in a once-great series? Dune: House Harkonnen

>>17494901
The novel I'm currently writing

>>17495902
>So, she goes and on the way an atrocity occurs and she spends rest of the trilogy trying to deal with her PTSD and panic attacks.
let's be perfectly honest here for a second. how the fuck is this engaging?

>>17496750
>First Bakkerpost is 83 posts into the thread
WHAT IS THIS MADNESS??!!

>>17494787
I love intelligent MC.

BTW read Understand - Ted Chiang

Hoe come the religion of the seven is the only one that don't do anything in the ASOIAF?

>>17497479
>Taravangian is fantastic
More like “was”. A good idea down the drain.

>>17498137
I wish there had been more Diagram shenanigans, but I still enjoyed his part after that broke down, and him becoming Odium is a good development.

>>17497782
I thought you were speaking about the Stormlight Archive.

>>17498142
>and him becoming Odium is a good development.
>development
>*snatches Nightblood*
>”Pst, nothin personel kiddo.”

Lol

>>17498142
nice spoiler

>>17498159
Yes. Now we have have the jobber Rayse out of the way and someone actually competent in control.
>>17498162
deal with it

>>17498162
here's another one
sanderfag a hack

>>17498162
They are doing you a favor. That’s just another ass-pull among the dozens in the series. There’s absolutely no reason or that to happen.

>>17496018
>comfy book about spaceship crew
long way to a small, angry planet

>>17496160
>>17497349
He created the modern fantasy genre, that's all. Things like D&D (and by extension, Final Fantasy) wouldn't exist, nor would any books or games that rely heavily on Tolkienian elves, dwarves, hobbits, etc. The idea of a party surrounding the protagonist wouldn't exist either, which has become a pretty standard fantasy trope. You may not like those things and prefer books that subvert them, but the only reason why they're subverting them in the first place is because they're so commonplace.

>>17498218
D&D came out of Conan and other pulp shit, tourist.

Fuck. E William Brown better publish this year.

>>17498282
So why did the Tolkien estate sue Gary Gygax for copyright infringement and prevail, which forced the D&D people to change a bunch of the names and terms? Balrogs and Ents were nowhere to be found before Tolkien, yet there they were in the first edition of D&D, and those were just two of the names they were forced to change.

>>17498218
Tolkien did achieve something amazing, no one is disputing that. But it doesn't live up to today's writing standards, that's all. The Lord of the Rings narrative, on its own, falls apart without all the mythological and world building work that he did.
He didn't revolutionize anything with regards to character complexity or plot themes.

>>17498218
>>17498218
>The idea of a party surrounding the protagonist wouldn't exist either
This is absolute nonsense. To think Tolkien somehow invented travel or quest companions is pure ignorance.
>>17498357
>dude roleplaying is all about names
Good lord.

>>17498461
>But it doesn't live up to today's writing standards, that's all.
those standards dont even exist

>>17498485
Not with so many shit writers around, I'll give you that.

“I renounce!” Anon roared, sweeping his scathing gaze across all assembled. “I renounce my station as Holy Shill, as Exalt-Shitposter in the service of R. Scott Bakker!”

He glanced at the Janny, not caring whether the old tranny sneered or no.

“I renounce my School!” he continued. “As an assembly of adolescent midwits and misogynistic edgelords.”

“Then you sentence yourself to death!” a Bakkerfag cried. “There’s no good philosophical fantasy outside of His work! There are no other series—”

“I renounce my Author!”

Gasps and sputters filled the galleries of the /sffg/. Anon waited for the uproar to subside, staring for what seemed an unblinking eternity at the otherworldly aspect of the stringy-haired Canuck. Nothing passed between them.

His face a mask of nimil, Anon turned without leave, began walking back the way he came. The anons of the Thread stared at him dumbstruck, their outrage as bright as sparks in their eyes. But they fell away before his approach. They fell away.

“ANON!”

The Self-Insert himself. Anon did not condescend to turn, but he did pause. It seemed the future itself leaned inscrutable against him, a yoke about his neck, a spear point against his spine …

“The next time you post about me,” the Autist-Author said, his voice surprisingly nasal, ringing with Canadian accents, “you will shill, Anon.”

Retracing his bloody footprints, Anon limped on.

>>17498507
Thank God I'm not a literal cuck.

>>17498464
>dude roleplaying is all about names
Surely you aren't this retarded. If you used that pea brain of yours for 3 seconds, you'd realize that Gygax lifted entire character archetypes and monsters straight from Tolkien. He was only allowed to keep them the same because he was forced to change their names as they were copyrighted. Show me where Balrogs and Ents existed before Tolkien. If not, then shut the fuck up.

>>17498461
His writing style was deliberate because he was trying to create something like Beowulf. Most of his themes and characters were throwbacks to Anglo-Saxon stories and medieval literature.

>>17498528
>His writing style was deliberate because he was trying to create something like Beowulf. Most of his themes and characters were throwbacks to Anglo-Saxon stories and medieval literature.
Sure, which is why he is overrated, in my opinion. Certain literature pieces are timeless on their own. Tolkien isn't one of them. Only the first.

>>17498528
I never disputed that, I was referring to how shallow that was. So, let me rephrase that.
>dude roleplaying is all about races and monster names
Talking trees as oracles or the embodiment of nature were not new. Tolkien gave them legs, among other things.
>>17498541
Nothing screams pseud and midwit quite like caring about power rankings and over- or under-ratedness.
You should judge the work of art for its own merits, in relation to its influences and its legacy, not some retarded and vague notion of how highly some imaginary collective of random people may or may not hold said work. It's such a pathetic excuse to justify your own pretentions it should be entirely ignored.

>>17498738
>Nothing screams pseud and midwit
>Using the word "midwit"

Found the pseud.

>>17498102
Because Geroge Martin is a bitchmade atheist who hates the fact that he was baptised and raised Catholic.

I know the concept of a universal translator is a bit silly on its face, but how do I make it more grounded? I know generally, they are unable to translate idioms if you want them to be a bit more realistic. What about things like grunts or laughter? Would they be able to translate “uh huh?” What about species that communicate more with gestures or even pheromones?

>>17444444

Father? Is this another test?

>>17499297
I
SMELL

>>17499297
The study is so deep, Father....

>>17499297
Bakker has unironically convinced me to get myself a sumna whore, damnation or not.

Reading Bakker...

Kellhus man, does no one else think that he sortve has Sherlock Holmes syndrome where he just says the write shit due to the author having a hard on over him.

Like...I just read the scene with Akka and Kellhus just before Shimeh where Akka gets pissed the fuck off but suddenly two sentences later he’s crying on the floor like a bitch...I mean come on. Hopefully Cnaiur puts this Kellhus bitch in his place, I know if I was next to this blonde haired fairy I would put my fingers in my ears shout LALALA and slap the fuck out of him smug cunt.

>>17499375

I'm re-reading TWP. Interesting to realize that at this point the reader is still let to believe (like the Inrithi believe) that it's primarily whores and sorcerers who are damned rather than literally everyone. Oh sweet summer child....

>>17499400
Not gonna make it.

I've just finished pic related. You guys told me that the first two books weren't that great.

I have to disagree, at least with this one. The stakes never felt higher. The entire Nonman mansion chapter was pure kino prose. Probably my favorite action sequence in the series yet.

Is the White Luck Warrior even better, bros?

>>17499496
You're right, Cil-Aujas (not-Moria)[/spoiler[is a breathtaking sequence.
>Is the White Luck Warrior even better, bros?
I personally feel that WLW drags the most of the series, but it's worth it for the lead-up to the last two books.

>also
>posting ugly hardcover edition
ngmi

>>17499400
Sounds like you're getting filtered pretty hard. I'm surprised that you even made it this far.

>Brothers, have you grasped the Absolute?

>>17499400
At the start of the series you kinda hate Khellus but at the end you realize he's the only character doing something worth a damn.

And of course, Esmi ruins everything, again.

>>17499367
Esmi is unironically the single best female character I've ever read in a fantasy series.

I know that this triggers the soys, but I don't even care. It's true.

Does anyone know the lifespan of a Nonman before the Inoculation? The glossary says that Cujara Cin'moi was young at the time of Arkfall and old at the time the Nonmen got vacc'd.

>>17499623
whats her of

>>17499623
She's a realistically written woman so she stands out in a genre where most authors are a bunch of simps and can't write women to save their lives.

>>17499614
The entire sequence where Achamian needs to choose between his heart and the apocalypses stung deep.

>>17499635
I think they were still long lived by human standards.

Is it even possible to "make it" as a fantasy author these days? I detest authors like Sanderson, Rothfuss, Jemisin, GRRM, etc. And that seems indicative that whatever I write will not find success.

>Bakkerposting starts.
>Post quantity and quality drastically increase.

Based

>>17499496
>>17499652
>Curses filled the silence, some murmured, others spoken quite out loud. Such was the monumental delicacy, the profusion of figure and detail, that the forms seemed more revealed than rendered, as though the sheeted cliffs were naught but mud rinsed from the stone of ossified souls. Even half-ruined, there was too much, too much beauty, too much detail, and certainly too much toil, a grandeur made wicked by the demands it exacted on simpler souls. It was a place that begged to be challenged, overthrown.

>>17499623
True but I still hate her.

>>17499671
Probably not. You should know by now that most publishers don't like to take chances. They are only interested in chasing safe and profitable themes/tropes.
Your best chance is just copying what's already being done, and add your twist to it. If you're really good, there's hope.

You're also restricted by the current political climate. Which means that you better have all the mandatory quotas in your story.

>>17499736
Or you can just write what you want and not contribute to the further debasement of literary culture.

>>17499759
Maybe I'm just completely ignorant to the entire scene.

But is there any actual good platform for self publishing? And by that I mean something like "goodreads" where you can simply publish and receive public feedback, and gain visibility in the meanwhile?

>>17499671
Write your books, pour your heart into them, but have a day job to pay your bills, and don't rely on writing for a career unless you find a way to write generic but profitable YA shlock like Sanderson.

If you're as good and original as I would expect given your hatred for the authors you mentioned, maybe in 10 or 15 years, when the current political hysterics have blown over, the world will be ready to receive your work.

>>17499777
>>17499688
>>17499599
>>17499555
>>17499655
>>17444444

>>17498102
Dunno, but it's cool how Jungian it is. Like, they are aware of the roles they want their gods to play and refer to these roles as to their gods.

There is magic to it in the background, like the notion the gods used to walk the hills in the old country and that that the high septon had the vision that made him side with the Targaryeans.

>>17499777
>when the current political hysterics have blown over
I have reflected on this idea for some time now. Do you think that some event will cause this? Or will it simply dwindle over time?

I know that there's a tendency for people to be hopeless in the middle of the storm, but it really feels like this maniac obsession with politics won't go away.

>>17498507
nice

>>17499809
I'd give it until the end of the Biden adminstration and see where things are at. Identity politics fatigue is real and the political pendulum always swings the other way with the young generation. Always.

>>17499403
I don't think that is true. The people who are judged are all being led astray and we've read about the horrible things they did. We know some people are saved, even without the eye, because the narrator literaly says so.

So I think the grimdarkness of the work is exagerated.

>>17499855
And yet...
>I have heard the sighs of the wicked in heaven, and the screams of the righteous in Hell; and I assure you, Brother, they sounded the same.

>>17495149
>dat trail of soot

LOL

>>17499166
You could use universal sign language that evolved through trade over centuries. Or maybe there is an intelligent species on the planet you want to create that has no vocal chords or a normal mouth. Or there some all pervasive religious order like Buddhist monks who arent allowed to speak.

An /sffg/ thread that is 95% free of Bakker and Sanderson shit, what a relief.

>>17499963
>Sanderson
Who's that?

>>17499876
That was one anonymous quote.

Need GRI published between 2018 - 2021.
Recommend me some.

>>17494787
Methods of Rationality
Arcane Ascension
Mother of Learning

Made more progress on my novel.
Hopefully I'll finish this beast sometime in the next decade.

>>17494451
What kind of sci fi books was >>17479268 talking about?

>>17500374
Watts

trannies browse these threads

bakkar bros we got too cocky

>>17500523
Lol this non-sequitur, pointless "meme."

>>17499166
Vricaltian Tourist Agency: http://spacespy.thecomicseries.com/comics/56/#content-start

>>17499450
>>17499579
>>17499614
I’m not getting filtered and am entirely open to Kellhus becoming some legendary figure when it all is explained however right now I would love for Cnaiur to slap the shit out of him and Akka to not be a beta cuck.

>>17500753
> just says the write shit due to the author having a hard on over him.
He says the **right** shit because he's literally like 5 times smarter than einstein and knows what people are thinking, his "argument" regarding achamian there was pretty solid.

And A, cnauir already fought kellhus a few times and lost pretty hard, Kellhus fought a thousands year old nonman in like the first chapter and was way more skilled, he punched through someone's head like a watermelon in TWP and fought multiple skin spies at once and came out ahead, while cnauir is unable to beat one. And his sorcerous abilities are so great if he fought akka it would be like akka fighting a single scarlet spires schoolman.

I do think bakker has a "hard on" for him per se, because he's pretty awesome and hyper competent.

TTT spoilers

how come moenghus got stabbed by kellhus

He was paying attention and both knew the other was likely planning to do that is kellhus just faster/having eyes? makes sense I suppose

>>17500816
Nah I think the flaw here is that Bakker thinks that saying the right thing can override human emotion - having dealt with people having breakdowns I can assure you it’s not the case. Sometimes you just can’t communicate with people - at the time I’m talking about his best friend has died, Kellhus has cucked him, and he’s under the most pressure he’s ever been given how near to shimeh they are and Kellhus literally does two statements and it’s over.

I’m pretty sure Cnaiur held his own against an initial fight with Kellhus where he actually struck Kellhus. And Kellhus also ran like a bitch from the non man iirc.

I think that Bakker simultaneously relies on and falls short of Kellhus manipulation of human emotion - Akka literally sees through Kellhus for the first time and then crumples, Kellhuss rise so far feels sortve unchallenged bar the circumfix and even that worked out entirely in his favour

>>17500826
Don’t overthink it too much. There’s too much at play already. Kellhus is not only able to see, but also younger than his father. Bakker handed that part brilliantly, instead of making some retarded fighting sequence.

>>17500888
Did you forget the part in tdtcb where kellhus and cnauir fight and kellhus open handed slaps cnaiur around like a woman? As soon as kellhus learned how to read cnaiur he made him his bitch.

>>17500888
When will you stop pretending that Kellhus is “human”?

>>17500888
>Nah I think the flaw here is that Bakker thinks that saying the right thing can override human emotion
Spoiled for the end
Kellhus literally dies at the end of Unholy Consult because regardless of what he said to Esmenet, she -still- disobeyed him and gave Kelmomas that pick to free himself. For all intents and purposes, Kelmomas should have been locked forever, yet Esmenet disobeyed Kellhus and freed her son. This is proof that human emotion can overcome even the deepest dunyain tricks.

>>17500888
Kellhus overrides his emotion with a greater emotion (making akka think Kellhus was literally God, akka having gone into their encounter thinking kellhus was a false prophet manipulator), reread the scene and see what you think.

>And Kellhus also ran like a bitch from the non man iirc.

because he started throwing fucking fireballs at him and kellhus didn't even know sorcery existed, he also was in like full plate nimil armor which made him almost impossible to injure, kellhus was still managing to cut him on the chin and stuff and was clearly more skilled

>>17500929
yeah, I bet moenghus had a great body for an old guy though.

>>17501016
Moengus was hilarious as a character, in the sense that he was too autistic for his own good/magic.

I'm rereading through the whole god damned Second Apocalypse / Aspect Emperor. I'm about at the part where Inrau dies and I realized early Bakker was full of soul. The characters felt human, were having real dialogues, had charisma, showed real emotion.
Compare to that, by the end of the fucking Unholy Consult, NOBODY feels like human anymore. I want to believe Bakker did it on purpose to show how much Kellhus / the Consult got under people's skin and how brutal the world became in the meanwhile.
At the beginning of "The Darkness that Comes Before" you had a bunch of guys dealing with fairly inane stuff, some dudes laughing at a whore in a bar, and by the Aspect Emperor series you get literal "I FUCK SRANC" tier insanity running around.

In truth though, I'm fairly sure Bakker got severely depressed by the time he got to write the second series and especially the last book, and that affected the atmosphere of his writing.

>>17499671
Depends what you mean by success. If you want to specifically make money out of books, probably not.
But if you want even a handfulf of people to legit enjoy your stuff, then yeah. I personally use Royal Road. Nobody really gives a fuck though, I'm just doing it for my very own enjoyment and it feels like uploading my work somewhere gives it legitimacy instead of collecting dust somewhere on a driver,.

Greetings from /tv/

Who is the Sneed of fantasy?

friendly reminder that bakker only got published because he had a jewish friend from college

and that's a good thing

>>17501138
other than proyas and a few other characters the great ordeal kind of becomes its own character.

in the first series you had quite a few notable lords like gotian, conphas, scout guy, old boomer guy, saubon proyas etc.

in TUC you have proyas, kayutas sort of, moe jnr, most everyone else in the ordeal is basically just a interchangable kellhus cocksucker

the scale and prose get really zoomed out and remote,I kind of like it though

>>17501322
Stupid frog poster

>>17499849
>the political pendulum always swings the other way with the young generation
Reminder that at least 25% of gen z identifies as something other than heterosexual.

>>17501429
Didn't he also have constant disagreements with his publisher?
The No-God is never going to happen, even if it weren't for his crippling arthritis.

>tfw no Soulcatcher gf

>>17501720
s-should i read cook?
i enjoyed malazan and bakker

“Can’t you see?” she screeches. “Looook!”

Her tone is so wild, so stricken, that it claws the fabric of every soul in earshot. The cheer cracks and dissolves into bewildered peering. Achamian might have been toothless for the way he gaped.

Read Space Odyssey, Childhood's end and The songs of distant Earth from Clarke, which book should I read next? How good is Rama series, is his later work like Cradle and Time Odyssey worth reading?

>>17501753
If you liked Malazan you will probably love Black Company.

>“Can’t you see?” she screeches. “Looook!”
>Her tone is so wild, so stricken, that it claws the fabric of every soul in earshot. The cheer cracks and dissolves into bewildered peering. Achamian might have been toothless for the way he gaped.

>>17501781
Rama is good but the sequels aren't, you can read the first book as a standalone just fine though. Time Odyssey is fun but not as good as his earlier works, in general most of late Clarke feels a lot like him cashing in on his fame. I'd recommend The City and The Stars and The Fountains of Paradise. Deep Range is also worth a look because of the really cool premise.

>>17500963
Yea, but this was weak Cnaiur not Peak Cnaiur. I highly doubt it given how TTT is going but I would welcome a reunion between Kellhus and Cnaiur in which Cnaiur ain’t a pussy.

>>17500968
Understood however I still
Hate him as a character so far.

>>17501011
Haven’t finished the Series but interesting ... I like Esmi as a character as she is human like Akka, her desires are relatable and understandable despite her thirst for the Dickus.

>>17501016
Tbf Kellhus should’ve just used the right words to get the non man not to through the fireballs or even yet had a metaphysical conversation with the fireballs about fate and destination and energy and convinced the fireballs to just suck his cock like every other character but alas I guess his speech stat was only 99 instead of 100, the next three books of continually asking “is this what you meant father” whilst professor x-ing every motherfucker he comes across should level him up one last time.

>>17501720
What’s this image from
And is there more of them?

>>17501837
Tnx

>>17499403
>tfw still haven't been invited to the inverse fire parties

>>17501869
Fanart by some russian guy

>>17499623
Reminder

>>17501961
>tfw they make you sit at the sranc table
>so far away you can’t even smell the cunny

>>17494451
B-ok is gone

>>17495598
>If you put it in a 'fantasy' section 99% of people who bought it would say "what the fuck is this?"
The day I discovered they sort all the genuinely good fantasy into the Fiction section was revolutionary

>>17502465
No, it's not.
Google zlibrary (z-lib.org) or try some of the regional mirrors or just get other DNS.
>b-ok.asia
>b-ok.lat
>b-ok.cc

>>17502631
Thanks anon

A couple days back I asked for a recommendation for a book by Sanderson (thanks for the anon who made the recommendation, it did indeed work as a standalone which was what I was looking for). Having now finished it, I can say that Sanderson is crap. Even though he fails at it horribly, at least Bakker is trying to do something interesting with his books, as compared to Sanderson who is writing the most derivative fantasy shit without even trying to do something original. They're both bad and if either one is someone you would list as a favorite author you should be embarrassed, but it's very clear to me that Bakker > Sanderson.

>>17503433
what would you recommend?

>>17503478
Not reading Sanderson or Bakker. If you want a more specific recommendation, give me more info on what you're looking for.

>>17503433
I tried to warn you anon

>>17503597
Yeah I suspected he'd be bad, but he's one of the most successful fantasy writers so I thought I'd give him a try. He was worse than I thought he'd be though.

>>17503433
I bet you didn't even know you were posting with the thread topic :^)
I recommended it as a standalone. I dunno, my foremost loves are worldbuilding and a "good" story. I think Sanderson writes serviceable stories and excels in worldbuilding. I don't know if you know much of his own personal story universe outside maybe its existence, but you can just see through the natural arc the story he lays out in the first 3 misborn that there's so much depth to the universe he's constructing. I'm in it as much to solve all the mysteries as I am to see how it all connects in the end. I understand that's obviously not everyone's preference, but he's a man doing what he loves and I enjoy it for what it is.
>inb4 schizo hours

>>17499166
Unironic telepathy. You just get direct impressions from people and "know" what they're trying to tell you without language. Alternatively, just have everyone speak in some standard language, that's the historical answer. If you really want to, you can even have it auto-translated and write all the dialogue with the assumption that it's never exactly what people were trying to say. Most extreme cause would be newspeak-tier speech restrictions where certain entire concepts and topics can't, or won't, be expressed in the common tongue.

>>17503528
Recommend your top three fantasy picks.

>>17503433
Nice blog post.

I am once again here to shill my boo- ask for your support. Gifting free copies to anyone who is interested. Shit has a fucking SOUNDTRACK, anons. We're all home doing fuck all, anyway.

>>17504224
> S A N D E R S O N
> C O S M E R E
> R A D I A N T
> S H A R D S
> S P R E N
> W I N D S P R E N
> H O N N OR S P R E N
> C R E A T I O N S P R E N
> ...
> D E A T H S P R E N
> S H A R D P L A T E
> S H A R D B L A D E
> S T O R M L I G H T
> V O I D L I G H T
> T O W E R L I G H T
> W A R L I G H T
> P A T T E R N
> S H A L L A N
> L I F T
> K A L A D I N
> D A L I N A R
> B O N D S M I T H
> L A S H I N G
> G E M S T O N E S
> H E A L I N G
> F A B R I A L S
> I M M O R T A L W O R D S
> O A T H S
> D I A G R A M
> S A D E A S
> S A F E H A N D

Amazingspren worldbuildingspren.

>>17504628
And that's just one series!

>>17504628
I don’t disagree that he’s a good word builder.
He’s just a shit story teller.

>shitpostspren
>those ones of free rent
>shardtakeyourmeds

>>17504781
world*

>>17504762
Coinshot
Lurcher
Allomancy
Ferrochemy
Hemolurgy
Terrismen
Lord Ruler
Kelsier
Mistborn
Misting
Koloss
Kandra
Harmony
Ruin
Preservation
Well of ascension
Skaa
Vin
Smoker
Seeker
Inquisitor
Tineye
Thug

>>17504799
You forgot all the metal and its respective swallowing.

>>17504799
If I respond to this post, will you dump more cosmere terms? Maybe you'd like to use your bigboy words and say something of substance instead of copy/pasting lists of things you dislike?

Sanderson’s worldbuilding is really just
>End of the world is coming
>There are 2 or more gods
>there is some big weatherlike thing because gods (mist, storm, etc)
>there is magic and its very categorized
>there is nobility and poor people, nobility are assholes
>there is some mystical old civilisation that predated modern times
>there is a prophecy that only few people believe and it is fulfilled
>there are way too many Mary Sues
>the magic (investitures) are always linked to some elemental thing like rock, metals etc

>>17504799
>>17504628
All of those sound like unoriginal shit.

>>17504823
What did you expect? He’s writing for 12 year olds.

>>17504799
And say what you will about terminology or originality or whatever this dump means, but using one magic system to go from feudal european fantasy setting to actual interplanetary space opera sci-fi is one of the more original ideas I've ever heard.

>>17504847
>And say what you will about terminology or originality or whatever this dump means, but using one magic system to go from feudal european fantasy setting to actual interplanetary space opera sci-fi is one of the more original ideas I've ever heard.
LMAO

>>17504823
I mean the main problem with him is he rushes his books, his imagination is decent enough (and so are his writing skills). I just wish he takes 2-3 years per book instead of aiming for a book a year.

>>17504895
>I mean the main problem with him is he rushes his books
False. His main problem is his prose.

>>17504939
His prose is fine. Especially if you account for his conceit that his books are translated from native languages to bypass the requirement of having a unique voice for every world he writes.

>>17504995
>Especially if you account for his conceit that his books are translated from native languages to bypass the requirement of having a unique voice for every world he writes.
>admitting that he “caters” to translators.
>somehow that makes his prose “fine”.
Kek

This has to be the one of the biggest copes I’ve ever read here. His prose has absolutely no depth. There’s is literally nothing subliminal about it.

>>17504995
Even if you accept the idea that the books are actually translations of texts that someone found, the translator has to be one of the worst scholars imaginable.

There's nothing wrong with Sanderson's writing, but I've never read another author where the words on the page are so unremarkable. I've read authors that are cringeworthy or otherwise just bad, so I guess they're worse, but I've never read one where the words matter as less as his do.

>>17504895
>I mean the main problem with him is he rushes his books
How the fuck is that even a problem?

>>17504784
cringe

>>17505054
I don't read it for the prose, but as you say it's not bad overall. Just not very good.

>>17505054
Agree, even though he can be cringeworthy at times.

>>17494709
>>17494715
WTC sucks since the main character is a loser.
He just keeps on whining about being given free wish fulfillment.
Honestly he should just kill himself

>>17504842
this. why can’t sanderfags accept his shit is literal YA? why do they get so upset when anyone points out the obvious fact that sanderson writes entertainment-shlock for kids?

>>17505136
There’s a guy here who has bought every Sanderson book. No wonder he’s pissed.

I'm gonna fall for the meme, how do I start Bakker?

>>17505246
From the beginning.

>>17505251
But which one is the first?

>>17505257
the darkness that memes before

>>17505271
gotcha

>>17505272
Just go into it with an open mind. The first 100 pages can be overwhelming/bizarre.

>>17501855
>Tbf Kellhus should’ve just used the right words to get the non man not to through the fireballs

A, he had no idea what a nonman was or anything about their culture, B the nonman was insane which made him hard to manipulate

I STAND
WHERE MY BROTHER STOOD

tfw kellhus's manipulations he even convinces the majority of the fanbase to support him despite them having his pov and 12321321% more information than the people of earwa.

BASED?

>>17501753
Yes

>>17505233
Who's pissed?

>I feared what I might find here

>>17494451
>Thread topic: Post the most controversial /sffg/ opinion you have, see how roasted you get.
The Harry Potter books are fun and enjoyable reads.

>Most uncontroversial opinion
litRPG is the dumbest genre

>>17494451
>Thread topic: Post the most controversial /sffg/ opinion you have, see how roasted you get.
'hard' sci-fi and trying to scientifically explain things adds nothing of value in most cases. hand waving the science should be the preferred choice for most authors. it doesn't detract from the story and will be less embarrassing.

Anyone recommend any good first contact books? so far i've enjoyed Childhoods end and Contact

thank you

>>17506055
Pushing Ice, although you won't get any global community stuff in it

>>17506002
I generally agree with this. I don't need or want an explanation of how an internal combustion engine works when a character drives a car, and I really don't want or need some speculative nonsense about how a spaceship's engine works.

>>17506055
blindsight
rendezvouz with rama (no actual contact, though)
pushing ice
eifelheim
the high crusade
flatland
the left hand of darkness

>>17494451
>Post the most controversial /sffg/ opinion you have, see how roasted you get.
This general would be dead without Bakker.

Threadly reminder to read Bakker. Start with The Darkness That Comes Before. This is part of the /sffg/ canon. Not understanding Bakker memes renders you blind to most of the relevant discussion that goes on here.

>skin spies and sranc are actually the best off in earwä due to not even having souls
>also have the most fun while "alive"
uhhh bakker???

>>17504614
Interesting
Give me the first 3 chapters for free and if it looks good I'll help ya out kiddo

>>17505728
Where is this from?

>>17506327
Nonmen, Sranc, and Men:
The first forgets,
The third regrets,
And the second has all of the fun.
—ANCIENT KÛNIÜRI NURSERY RHYME

Does Cradle get better? I'm at the fourth book and I'm just losing interest.

>>17505521
Oh my god I've been PROYAS'd ;__;

>>17506714
dity?

I always saw Kellhus as some warrior Jesus and he is pretty based also. I have only read three first books so I don't know what is going to happen. Pls no spoilers.

>>17501753
Malazan draws heavily from Black Company, but has a way grander fantasy story to tell otherwise. In fact many argue Black Company loses its appeal with Books of the South when everything is upped.

>>17506799
Just know Khellus continues to be the most based character.

>>17494789
i couldn't get past the first book, it was so boring.
loved the tv series tho. watched it 3 times so far

does anyoe know wtf happened at the end of Dragon heart: sea of sand book? Why did mc eat the fairy? the entire book had a good pace and consistency but it seems at the very end author suffers a stroke or a brain seizure.

>>17506757
Y-yes...he didn't cuddle me after....

>>17504614
Hey the idea for your novel looks good as hell but I can't help but notice that it has received 1 review in more than half a year. I have some recommendations for your advertising.
1. Get a whiter or Japanese pen name.
2. Advertise it as a play. Don't say "play-style text," nobody knows what the fuck that means. If you wrote it as a play, sell it as a play. You could even include it as a subtitle, like Crimson Tower: An Otaku Play, or some gay shit like that.
3. Take the soundtrack out of your Amazon page's title, as it's going to murder your SEO and confuse people looking at the page. Advertise it separately and within the book itself. Your book's page should just be about your book.
4. Re-format your blurb. It looks like shit.

>>17505927
People here say Sanderson appeals to the lowest common denominator, but he's high level literature compared to litrpg trash.

Are litrpgs even a thing anymore? The trend seems to have died down.

>>17507281
Lol no.

>Bad authors feel the need to explain everything.

What is this fat fuck even doing?

>>17507429
Streaming on twitch and milking money off of his fans/from cons. Also mentioning his books on his stream gets you banned.

>>17507429
eating

>>17506055
The Mote in God's Eye

>>17507429
Only read the first book so far but god damn am I hoping that Kvothe is revealed to be an unreliable narrator

>>17507448
>Option A: Finish your series, make bank and stream on Twitch without being harassed.
>Option B: Be lazy. Don't finish your series, and get constantly bombarded with questions like "When is the book coming out ??!!

How is this even possible?

>>17507512
It gets cringier anon. Especially anything that revolves around Denna.

>>17504628
This desu senpai

>>17505927
>trying to write YA fantasy
>go read harry potter to see how i compare
>absolute mogged by le british lady of trans discourse
She's so fucking good at writing for kids.

>>17507526
I wouldn't be surprised, considering how much of a deluded "Nice guy" simp he is towards here.
>Yeah, even though you're the one she fucks, and I'll never experience anything like that with her, I'm the one she really cares about

>>17507368
Just by looking at that bookshelf I know she has fuck all to say about good writing.

>>17505118

>>17507642
Do you love every single book on your shelf?

Are there any decent oriental based fantasy stories? Seems like all there is are RPG mechanics, overpowered reincarnation/revenge and cultivation stories.

>>17507753
Never die was ok

Which Second Apocalypses editions are the absolute best?

I want to buy the entire collection for my kids to read one day.

>>17507749
Yes, since I only buy physical copies of books I actively re-read.

>>17495412
>Gene Wolf is for self-loathing sff
How so? What is it about his books that imply his readers are "self-loathing"?

>>17506277
Based

>>17506444
The shimabara rebellion and the cover of "Christ's samurai"

>>17507368
>erikson doesn't explain anything and instantly filters 100s of brainlets

>>17507753
I read a book about a young Indian king who gets gypped of everything by a traveling gambling prince. He travels a bunch, learns about life, but I forget the ending. Definitely fantasy, and it was pretty good. Don't remember the title though.

>>17508009
>>17507753
>oriental
>gypped

come on guys cool it with the racism ok?

>>17507982
You can go too far in the opposite territory, though.

>>17508110
what people really mean when they say they don't want the author to explain everything is they want them to explain a lot, more than needed but not a ridiculous amount.

>>17507749
Adults shouldn't have Harry Potter books prominently displayed on their bookshelves

>>17508119
Not true

>>17502587
Any recs?

>>17508194
Read Bakker.

>>17507642
have sex incel

Does it bother you guys when a fantasy book moves to fast, or do you prefer that in some novels?

>>17504823
Bakker’s worldbuilding is really just
>End of the world is coming
>There are 2 or more gods
>there is some big damnation thing because gods (compensatory, bellicose, etc)
>there is magic and its very categorized
>there is nobility and poor people, nobility are assholes, poor people are also assholes
>there is some mystical old civilisation that predated modern times
>there is a prophecy that only few people believe and it is fulfilled
>there is precisely one Mary Sue
>the magic (schools) are always linked to some philosophy thing like gnosis, logos etc

>>17508397
lmao. filtered

>>17508397
kinda kek

>>17508397
lmao imagine sandersoy seething this much

>>17508397
Only difference is that Bakker only did that once, and got it right the first time.

Sanderson is still trying, to no avail.

>>17508397
Bakker doesnt autistically explain in detail how his magic works. Its just Cants with utterals and inutterals. Other than that is magic its not going to explain shit. Sanderson's "magic" is just fantasy physics.

>>17508397
There isn’t a single Mary Sue in the second apocalypse.

>>17508367
You mean pace?

“It is their nature to believe as their fathers believed,” the darkness continued. “To desire as they desired … Men are like wax poured into moulds: their souls are cast by their circumstances.

Why are no Fanim children born to Inrithi parents? Why are no Inrithi children born to Fanim parents? Because these truths are made, cast by the particularities of circumstance.

Rear an infant among Fanim and he will become Fanim. Rear him among Inrithi and he will become Inrithi …

“Split him in two, and he would murder himself.”

>He whispered into her ear. “He doesn’t see, Esmi … He watches.”

Like a spider.

>>17508397
OH NO NO NO BAKKERBROS WE GOT TOO COCKY

>>17508417
>>17508461
>implying I would remember the different kinds of gods if I wasn't a fan
I haven't even read Sanderson, the post is just poking fun. The description in the post I replied to is literally just a bunch of the features that second-world fantasy books tend to share in common.

>>17508603
yeah it was pretty funny

you claim to be a bakkerfan but have only read TSA? Interesting....

>>17508624
Have I told you about the Argument?

>>17508653
I read he toned down the end of NP and sranc meat orgy due to beta reader feedback

>>17506397
Anywhere you want me to send it to? I have a discord or I can send it through email

>>17506970
Damn, that's some good advice. Screenshotted it for later. I have had some trouble in the advertising field as I had people click into the link, but pretty much no one wanted to buy haha. As for calling it a play, idk I kind of just wanna call it a light novel at this point. I don't want people to think it's something that should be acted out on a stage, because the reason I wrote it like that was to make it feel more like you're reading the scenes of an anime. I had James Tullos review the book and he said he enjoyed that it was written the way it is, and that it did feel like it was a show. But maybe I'm overthinking it. As for the blurb, anything specific? Thank you for the help, anon.

>>17506397
>>17508817
Scratch that I'll post a pastebin here in a sec

>This study is so deep, Father...

>>17508906
Reread Bakker.

>>17508906
Too young to be PoN Esmi.
Akka got to fuck prime Esmi though, so get fucked Kellhus.
Also
>tattoos
Damned after all

>>17508940
Akka's psycho cuck rage at the end of TFT tho, so sad.

TUC SPOILERS


“Anasûrimbor Kellhus …” Nersei Proyas finally declared, paused out of some bardic instinct. “Our Most Holy Aspect-Emperor has charged me with leading the final march upon Golgotterath.”

One heartbeat passed, then the assembly leapt to the limit of stature and voice, howling incredulity, shouting dismay. Frenzy had seized them whole, soldered them into a singular beast.

Or nearly so, for Prince Nurbanu Ze barged quite alone to the floor, bellowing, “Nooo!” among the burst carcasses. “The Scald consumed Him! My men saw this!”

The uproar crashed into silence.

“Even as the Scald struck them blind, they saw this!”

Proyas squinted, then scowled, but Kayûtas was already in motion, leaping the nearest trestle with his broadsword drawn, Proyas stammered something he would never remember. The Prince-Imperial’s blade hooked white—cutting white … Nurbanu Ze stood stupefied, his expression clogged for incredulity. Blood jetted hot and crimson across the greying scraps and gelling grease …

Death came swirling down.

And for the merest heartbeat they all saw it, flaring as luminous as flame in a nocturnal cavern, the miracle of the Father in the Son. No mere Man could have done what he had done. No human.

The Jekki Prince pitched backward, flopped across the soiled carpets. Proyas glanced up and out, saw the Lords of the Ordeal laughing, roaring in lunatic approval—exultation. And his gaze caught upon the blood-slicked joints and lobes. Drool crowded the corners of his mouth.

He raised his arms high, as though bathing in the elation. He thrust the arch of his manhood against the cheek of their raucous image. Couras Nantilla howled in seizures, mucous threading the black hole of his mouth. Grimmel had dared go so far as clasp his manhood through his kilt.

>>17508982
>I’M GONNA MEEEEAATTTTTT

>>17508982
FUCK PUT IT INSIDE SPOILERS HOLY SHIT I HAVENT EVEN READ JUDGING EYE YET. I ALREADY SAW KELLHUS AND "DEATH CAME SWIRLING DOWN" NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

>>17508982
Whoa, give me the Meat, Proyas, and damn my soul
I want to get lost in your Sranc 'n' roll
And drift away
Won't you take me away?

Beginnin' to think that I'm wastin' time
I don't understand the things I do
The World outside looks so unkind
And I'm countin' on you
You can carry me through

>thought the madness of the meat had finally lifted

So I've seen a lot of Bakker-talk online and you'd think to read it that the man was either the devil incarnate or a seven-fold genius come to show the true way. A phrase I'm used to hearing is 'marmite book', another is 'you'll either love it or hate it - there's no in between'. All as much bollocks here of course as when applied to my own work. A simple click of the ratings button shows a vast number of in betweens. In fact most people are in between the 5* and the 1* on this book (as on mine). Most people give it 4*, 1* is the least popular rating.

There are plenty of good things to say about the book.

I've heard it comprises 'dense philosophy'. To my mind that would make an awful work of fiction. I've read philosophy text-books, and the fiction of Satre, De Beauvoir, and others. This is nothing like that. This is a fantasy story with a complex plot and plenty of action. Yes there's a little more introspection than typical for the genre. But philosophy? Very little. Bakker wisely opts for aphorisms and a measure of psychology to scatter around and create the ambiance.

The prose is powerful (can be long winded in places), there's an abundance of cleverness and insight on offer, the much talked of darkness of the book didn't strike me as particularly dark at all.

At the end of the book the threads converge and a pretty decent 'climax' is delivered, ending without a cliff hanger and with a (for me) mild impetus to continue.

The intricacy of the many part plot ... well, I admired it but I can't say it really did it for me. I guess it's a ton of material for the epic side of epic fantasy to play with over the course of the next however many books. I perhaps wanted more focus and more character-time.

There's great imagination here and Khellus' methods are a fresh and entertaining idea. All that really pushed this a touch below 4* for me was the fact that the whole book lacked the emotional content I enjoy. I don't need nice characters. I don't need to cheer their every move. And Bakker's character list certainly includes interesting characters - which is great. But I never really felt emotionally involved and that blunted my enjoyment.

The Mandate Schoolman was the most involving character for me, then Esmenet.

In short then, a book with depth, complexity, written with skill, and well worth a look. Personally I wasn't as swept up and held by it as I had hoped to be, but your mileage may well vary!

nonmenbros?

>>17506970
>>17506397
https://pastebin.pl/view/raw/179fb4a0 I think the strength of the book lies in it buildup and payoff, but I suppose enough about it should be discernable from the first three chapters. If the formatting is too fucked, let me know. I can maybe post a word file or whatever is easier.

Here are two tracks that I think really capture the mood and atmospheres of the plot: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osz_XPQdfhA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7MMwa8MiJ4

>>17509084
“My wife, Mirinqû, would sing thus,” the Lord Torturer said, “as she prepared my kit before battle.” He had paused just outside the penultimate threshold; now he grimaced for crossing, stood riven in her presence. “That very song, that very way …”
He raised and lowered his left hand, blinked two tears from his eyes.
“In her voice …”

are these threads now people copy pasting bakker book discussions from reddit

>>17509111
/sffg/brahs, are we going to do a live reading of this bad boy? i can play the mom

Why was he so against R+L=J?
I remember him going out of his way to ignore the show's confirmation of it for... some reason?

>>17509140
Author here, if we can get a /sffg/ play going I will probably be content with life for the next 5 years. Sounds like so much fun

I never finished this book, actually I never finished the first chapter.

I couldn't read this book it was like the author grabbed a thesaurus and picked out vocabulary that would have even made Jerome Shostak have to look it up!
It made me hate the author...it felt arrogant, high handed and pissed me off.

>>17508520
Sorry, yeah. Would you mind a fast paced fantasy novel? Let's say it covers a-lot of ground.

>>17509255
ESL? Yeah should start with something easier.

>>17509255
Namefag? Yeah should start with something easier.

>>17494942

Just finished this today. I think it might take a second for it to really set in, the impact. The whole reason I'm still alive would be a moot point if I lived within the fiction.

>>17509257
It really depends. Good authors adjust the pace based on the narrative and plot.

I fucking hate slogs like the Wheel of Time though. It’s like he’s writing a real chronicle, but it’s totally made up. He’s only doing it for the sake of it, because he decided he would do so right from the beginning.

>>17505097
>Shartspren

>>17509411
Dilatespren

>>17509173
Because it's too obvious and cliche

>>17509111
>pastebin.pl
I don't know what wacky version of pastebin this is but it won't load for me in the US.

>>17509255
HAHAHAHAHA FAGGOOOOT

>>17509411
You need to be 18 to post on this website.

>>17509590
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1A3Jze4h4iOxcjqLOflpA1yp-ZlVjrl49/view?usp=drivesdk

Maybe I can just send the drive file? It was impossible to read because of the formatting of the text being a play. I realize it's the whole book but I'm on mobile rn at work so this is all I can manage for now.

>>17509957
>>17509957
>>17509957

>>17509173
Because he thought it was a masterful twist that was telegraphed but not obviously so. And to be fair it was at first, I remember finding the soiaf forum in 2007 or whatever and jaw dropping at the R+L=J thread part 20-something. A couple of autists who read and reread every chapter figured it out, and they told other people, and then when the show came out and everyone in the fucking world became a fan those people told everyone else and then everyone was spoiled on it going into the books the first time and thought the foreshadowing was obvious. Now George Martin is butthurt that people figured out the big twist, but that's just the gamble you take when you write a story where the plot twists are a major selling point.

>>17509576
Most people did not discover it on their own.
Of fucking course when it's been 20 years since AGOT's publication and most people are told about it then it seems obvious because unlike dumb shit like R+L=D there is a logical chain of events.
Most of the best twists seem obvious in retrospective but you likely didn't piece it together beforehand.
Twists like what Preston peddled stretch/break any sense of logic just for the sake of contrarianism.

>>17509961
GRRM spoke about people discovering a story's twist, and resisting the urge to change it for that sake, so he did have integrity at least at the time of that interview.
If TWOW ever fucking comes out, we'll see if he sticks to his guns.

>>17509961
>>17509982
Joke’s on him for being lazy. Should have finished the books years ago.

>>17509982
Do you really think that it wasn't obvious? It seemed pretty apparent to me when I read it, and that was back in high school before I was looking at shit about books online.