/lit/ - Literature

>>17478986
society is a prison, it uses the mechanisms of power and discipline to subject us to their rule

deep cut refutation. wow, so deep, such cutting.

>>17478998
existence is a prison

>>17478998
Mongolian throat singing and it’s consequences have been a disaster for the evolved monke species

>>17478986
Prison create criminals

>>17478986
>he literally quotes Sylvanas in a blizzard cinematic
What a fucking idiot

>>17479014
There are two types of neets:
1.bully neets-criminals
2.bullied neets-4channers

>>17478986
>>17479014
Looking at france atm, it's hard not to judge prisons as an utter fucking failure. Speaking only of muslims extremists, well prisons is where most regular joes get radicalized. I imagine the same goes for petty criminals falling further down the path. Hard to start being a better person in such a poisoned environment

>>17478986
>unironically simping for prisons
this is your brain on conservatism

>>17478998
Dude we live in a society

>someone tells this gay pedo hack is irrelevant
>most cited individual in academia ever

>>17479090
I know you don't think this, but if I took only this post for all you do think I'd assume you believe that you go to jail on completely random basis and it has nothing to do with your actions.

Now again, you obviously don't believe in it, just haven't thought of the implications of what you've said as whenever similar "argument" was brought up, this concern about it was never voiced.

The reason why prison "radicalises" criminal is because people who end up in one tend to have mental makeup that predisposes them to being radicalised. In all likelihood their time behind the bars didn't influence the outcome here at all.

>>17478986
I think Guenonfag changed subject to hate Fuko

>>17479173
>The reason why prison "radicalises" criminal is because people who end up in one tend to have mental makeup that predisposes them to being radicalised
retard. you can drastically change recidivism rates with a few simple chanegs

There are four things black people are willing to do for work for some reason.
1.working in factories
2.paving walls
3.farming
4.government jobs
Give them those jobs and itll keep them busy and away from destroying stuff.

>>17479173
Imagine believing mental makeup and predispositions are a thing, you'd benefit from reading foucault

>>17479309
Foucault's greatest nightmare involved calipers. He projected that fear on his "philosophy".

>>17479264
you can, just don't let muslims in

>>17479430
Muslims are the only ones still advocating for the importance of traditional values. We have a lot to learn from them.

>>17479435
I agree but we can learn from them from far away

atheists have no critical thinking so they hype retards who discover warm water.
all the postmodernists are atheists and they just discovered that society is full of mental masturbation about pictures and humanism is just glorification of the state, ie fascism too, but it's better than other fascisms because this time, all the humanist intellectuals, actors, commentators and journalists are included in the ruling class, and they said that ''being life affirming'' ie being a vitalist is good. Vitalism is the fancy word of the atheist for being an hedonist, ie cooming. This is why in humanism, there is a merger of politics, education and entertainment, and why atheists are sex and drug addicts glorifying sex and drugs.

Now atheism exists only by rejection of judeo christianity , so now that christians are not in power, they still need a bogeyman and need to dream up threats of nazis harming atheist democracy. Ie creating more and more narratives and pictures to delude themselves into a fake sense of righteousness, because nobody who isn't atheist or not christian tells the atheists they are good people. This is why atheists desperatly turn to eastern guruisms, hoping the gurus will tell them they are decent people. It works because the gurus capitalized on these empty followers by embodying the asexual old wise character. Gurus expressed the emptiness the atheists were feeling and then played the character which would be the opposite of their emptiness, which in turn reinforced their projection as him being an enlightened master. This gets to be a self-sustaining loop where the worship and admiration of followers feeds to the confidence of the leader, who becomes fulfilled and the character becomes easier and easier to play until it becomes unnoticeable.
So atheists have no external validation besides scam artists banking money and sex from them. An atheist is a fatherless girl craving to hear from her father that she is a good girl, but she spends her life on casual sex and
posting on instagram how she likes the dalai lama and fair trade beauty creams.

>>17479173
Yeah and people who don't end up in prison are either high level bureaucrats or spineless plebeians who eat up what the ruling class of bureaucrats give them.

>>17479442
I think you would find much to agree with in Foucault if you read him anon

>>17478986
Prison is good if you want to get fisted though, which is all that retard achieved in his life.

>>17478998
Not necessarily a bad thing.

>>17479150
>gay pedos is the most cited individual in academia
The absolute state.

>>17479264
Swede here, our recidivism rates for those who get a prison sentence is about the same as yours even though we're entirely focused on rehabilitation rather than enacting justice through punishment.

>>17479443
High level bureaucrats like Foucault or the hundreds of thousands of bureaucrats who quoted him in their thesis' when obtaining their credentials?

>>17479468
>Sweden has one of the lowest recidivism and incarceration rates in the world where only 29 percent reoffend and 1 in 2,278 of their total population is behind bars (Kriminalvården, 2017; The World Bank, 2016).
Why lie?

He is investigating power relations, control over bodies through institutions and techniques they use to exert dominance over people's body, how the body becomes an object shaped and controlled through discipline.

>>17479478
>"STOP, POLICE!"
>"No"
>"Oh, ok then, keep going, we'll find someone else to bother."
Sweden is a laughing stock.

>prisons actually good dude

>>17479490
Old school death penalty for blasphemous crimes and weregeld/feud dynamics for others was better, yes

Discipline, order, control, exertion, the penal system, dominance, will, influence, punishment, authority, master-servant. Sounds a lot like gay BDSM sex to me.

>>17479486
Nice imagination.

>>17479500
that actually helped foucault develop his theory

>>17479501
Brown is the colour of freedom in Sweden.

the government's handling of covid 19 proves him right

>>17479506
Proofs?

>>17479511
biopower baby

never let a good crisis go to waste

>>17479511
WHOA GUYS, covid is so deadly, it has killed so many people haha, symptoms include car crashes, bullets to the head, crushing, and a mild cough. Better shut down the entire planet for over a year. God forbid some of the elderly die from a mild respiratory disease.

I'm fucking bored of this meme virus.

This is what happens when you think iq is racist.

prisons are a disgsuting liberal meme. bring back whipping, pillory, ducking stool, public hangings. also bring back that most exquisite form of communal justice, lynching

>>17479607
yes... bring back the stocks... i agree anon

>>17479632
This is kinda hot & I'm not even into feet

>>17479607
bring back the guillotines

>>17478986
the vast majority are in for non-violent crimes.

>>17479014
depends on the prison. rehabilitation focused prisons have very low re-offence rates.

>>17479677

they are also fucking GAY

>>17479684
foucault wants gay sex to be the norm. the straights are trying to force us into heteronormativity. they want to police sexuality and humanity so we cant express ourselves freely as nature wants us to

>>17479719
>foucault wants gay sex to be the norm.
based

>>17479719
>be me, in school, many many years ago
>be homosexual
>want to start being more open
>want to start having relationships
>confide in friend
>friend outs me
>watch all friend circles melt away
>constant ridicule
>total ostracisation
>no longer want closeness with anyone
I keep hoping I'll die in my sleep.

>>17479719
>heteronormativity
>gay

no such thing. there are no orientations, only acts. if you fuck a person of the opposite sex, you acted "straight". if you fuck someone of the same sex, you acted "gay". simple as. all else is pseudoscientific retardation. but i'm sure you like to be researched, analyzed and categorized by an army of psychologists, gender therapists, sexuologists and the like.

>>17479094
>simping

>>17479736
Based

>>17479736

wasn't it historically about being the receiver or giver? getting pegged by a woman would be more gay than fucking a twink.

>>17479094
Why are leftists so cringe bros?

>>17479736
truth
>>17479784
sexuality as a categorization is a recent invention and perpetuated by institutions seeking to box everything

There's absolutely nothing wrong with prisons. I'll refute anyone who tries to argue differently.

>>17479677
most serious offenders cannot be rehabilitated
no one cares if you "rehabilitate" some petty thief, murderers, rapists and gang members should be executed and/or tortured for information on their friends
saves the State money and the public several headaches

>>17479791
>prison good

you retard. if you are not a leftist, you should hate prisons. only acceptable way of justice is retaliation by the family of the victim against the perpetrator, or this retaliation bought off by the family of the perpetrator by way of blood money. public crimes like corruption, treason, public indecency,.. should be publicly dealt with in the most spectacular fashion, a communal event of purification. all else is liberal and leftist cringe

>>17479264
>few simple changes
the fucking nerve on you people
criminology was a fucking mistake and beccaria should have never been born
we need the panopticon

>>17479809
>impotent rage
You're literally repulsive to talk to.

>>17478986
reminder that this poofta's """"philosophy"""" was all a means to an end for him to push for legal bumming of prepubescent boys
that's literally all he cared about, everything he ever said or thought about pointed towards his desire to molest children

>>17479818

historically if you said that to my face, i could kill you on the spot, and merely had to pay a fine to your family for it. if only...

>>17479827
Post body photo with timestamp

>>17479824
this
read his shit if you want but only to help you refute retards who unironically simp for this pedo cunt

>>17478999
you sound upset
go cry some more you faggot redditor

>>17479816
upset by facts?

>>17479264
>. you can drastically change recidivism rates with a few simple chanegs
List them please.

>>17479805
death row is extremely expensive, dumbass. More than just a life prison term

>>17479872
the only fact here is that you're a bleeding heart imbecile

>>17479886
what a shit argument.
I'm saying they should be executed immediately.

>>17479872
you don't know what you're talking about.
recidivism in of itself is indicative that the subject CANNOT be rehabilitated. Recidivist individuals simply view crime as a way of living, rather than a momentary transgression. It's virtually a waste of time to attempt and rehabilitate someone who sees no point in participating in civilised society.

>>17479892
>I'm saying the decision should be taken in isolation of the entire social system
You sound like an actual retard. Are you a lefty?

>>17478986
can't both be bad?
our prison system is an absolute travesty which turns tax evasors and boys who just wanted to coltivate some ganja into repeating offenders by keeping them in the same place as rapists and murderers.

>>17479901
that's not at all what I said, are you dense

>>17479916
You did, but you're so dumb you don't realise it.

>>17479090
>Hard to start being a better person in such a poisoned environment
No it's not. It can start right away by not wanting to get back there under any circumstances.
Of course, it's the job of the white (few black) prison guards to convince you of that. They need proper convincing training.

>>17479911
That doesn't make prison as a concept bad dumbass. These are just implementation details and not what Foucault was arguing against.

>>17479632
Jesus that's an awful kind of turture. Wtf

>>17479926
keep arguing with yourself you dolt

>>17479656
Imagine that. Deapitations every weekend in the town scquare. Man that would be a better world

>>17479939
you have a problem with that?
it would be an excellent deterrent and reinforce the us vs them mentality between civilised people and criminals

>>17479926
>You did, but you're so dumb you don't realise it.

>>17479732
That's what you get for being a fag. So don't open in front of nobody about your fundamental flaw. They will rip you off.

>>17479948
>you have a problem with that?
No problem. I meant unironically weekly decapitations will change society for the better.
And I think it would be a perfect timing to institute that at the end of the pandemic. It fits perfectly.

>>17479887
not really. if you want less crime bleeding heart policies are what work. you don't have to care a whit about the crims.

>>17479898
but different places with different policies have different recidivism rates. you can affect people's desire or ability to participate in civilised society.

>>17478986
give me one page in Discipline and Punish in which Foucault emits such moral statement
pro-tip: you cannot because he doesn't

>>17479948
>it would be an excellent deterrent
no empirical proof that it works as one

>>17479955
>So don't open in front of nobody about your fundamental flaw.
I get your point, but are you a 1920's cockney or an ESL?

>>17479999
Read part four chapter 2

>>17479442
>all the postmodernists are atheists
wrong, they're all Catholics

>>17479442
seconding >>17479453

>>17479442
>Vitalism is the fancy word of the atheist for being an hedonist, ie cooming. This is why in humanism, there is a merger of politics, education and entertainment, and why atheists are sex and drug addicts glorifying sex and drugs.
KEK. How will atheists recover from this?

>>17479595
>people dying enornously despite hospitals
Retard

>>17480201
>Retard
Governments aren't taking it seriously if it's actually deadly. Half measures that people ignore, no real lock-downs, only shutting down small business... who the fuck cares. It's been misreported, over-inflated, and at the time down-stated by obviously economically minded people.

Even the plague didn't wipe us out, and we didn't understand shit about it.

>>17480212
They are taking it seriously, it's just that people would rather riot if their rightoid tabloid tells them a measure is unconstitutional.

In Europe we have lockdowns and they are working.

I hate this strict dad mentality of "but criminals were bad, so they should be punished!!" even if it shows the punishment does absolutely no benefit for society, doesn't reduces the risk of other criminals comitting similar crimes, or even the criminal themselves comitting future crime. Punishment for the sake of punishment is the same as a child lashing out because it can't handle it's emotions.

Prisons should exist to rehabilitate criminals and ensure they become a useful and trustworthy member of society. Although prisons would have way fewer people in them in the first place if pointless drug laws were abolished and the absolute minimum people had provided for them was much higher.

>>17480238
>In Europe we have lockdowns and they are working.
Not from what I've seen. People ignoring it. Flouting the rules. There's no enforcement of course. It's a lockdown predicated on the good will of others. It's nonsense.

>>17480252
Police will arrrst you if you don't follow the curfew, businesses are closed so social gatherings become much harder especially with this weather.

My country uses drones to spy on people, to make sure every household is abiding by the no guests rule.

>>17480257
Mine is pretending to have a lockdown while everyone goes for a jolly.

>>17479948
There is no evidence at all that stricter punishment for crimes, including the death penalty, lowers any crime rates.

Why do rightoids want society to be organised around their under developed emotional impulses?

>>17480262
>rightoids
Hi bunkertranny

>>17480251
It's either prison or being shot. I don't particularly care as long as criminals are removed from the civilised society.

>>17480065
you're talking about these pages?
it's not a moral statement, it's the assessment that prison failed to meet the goal it had fixed itself (in continuity with the statistics quoted the previous pages talking about early 19th century)

>>17480273
Prevention is better than the cure, fix what causes criminals. For violent crime it is almost always poverty, enviroment or stems from drugs.

>>17480278
Cool, but while we're fixing poverty, criminals go to prison/morgue.

>>17480261
Which country?
Based desu

>>17480290
This causes fatherless homes, ruined communities and hate for authorities. Criminals can be reformed. Prisoners in Northern Europe have a 20% reoffending rate because their prisons are based on rehab. In the US it's over 60% reoffend because the prisons are horrible, stressful and/or traumatising for most people.

>>17480302
No, it's because in America it's mostly black people.

>>17480308
Qualitative personality traits aren't genetic, no evidence traits like criminality are inherent to race. Black people are more likely to live in poverty, fatherless homes, or be involved with drug dealing. Take an American baby and put him in Norway and the likelyhood he will become a criminal is vastly lowered.

>>17480302
you sound like such a bitch dude, and I mean it sincerely
you university trust fund retards are so gullible

>>17480317
>no evidence traits like criminality are inherent to race
That's what happens when you ban behavioral studies based on race.

>>17480296
England. We're in national lockdown, but you'd never think it leaving the house. (I'm a keyworker.)

>>17480332
Gyms are closed though. Fucking Boris.

>>17480319
And you sound stupid, you're understanding of society comes from Youtube videos and ideas that sound correct in your swiss cheese brain.

The reason no one in the real world agrees with your fringe politcal beliefs isn't because you have an unconstrained, redpill brain, it's because they are stupid, emotional and not based in reality.

>>17480337
Can't play golf, it's not socially distanced :))))
Worthless fucking country.

Hope we finally get some sensibility and lynch every member of the money party, maybe bring back some true conservatism instead of a faux crony government.

>>17480317
biopsychosocial models are key, emphasis on BIO
you retards always harp on "muh environment and muh money" as if every poor person is automatically destined to become a murderer or a rapist

>>17480349
The majority of people are racists and hate immigrants sweaty.

>>17480349
>all these assumptions
and there it is. I disagree with you and automatically I must be a /pol/tard or some r/thedonald retard who watches ben shapiro videos religiously or whatever
quite the emotional response there, my friend. No need to get so worked up

>>17480331
There is no evidence that qualitative traits are genetic at all, regardless of race. Qualities like cowardice, friendliness, trustworthiness, etc, come entirely from nurture and environment, not from nature and genetics.

>>17480367
Did you learn this in your anti-racism course?

>>17480372
Not the anon you replied to, I still remember doing an intersectionality thing in 'equal access to justice' in a law class. The teacher was shocked none of us cared about it. Turned out she didn't either. Got an A in that class.

>>17480358
The majority of stupid people you mean. Each generation is less and less racist, and it's clear the view is generally abhorred in society.

>>17480379
you're just a product of your time. Nothing more, nothing less.
You're arrogant and childish.

>>17480356
The biopschosocial model doesn't imply that behavoural traits are genetic? The bio is related to aspects that are genetic, which is seperate from the psychological portion which relates to personality, so what's your point?

>>17480372
No, it's a fact that if you read a few books you might know, we are on /lit/ after all. Show me some evidence that personality traits can be inhereted.

>>17478986

He never met an american nigger

>>17480392
You're still wrong. You're a product of a past time, still believing that punitive justice works despite all evidence to the contrary, simply because you want the goveremnt to act like a big, tough, conservative dad, even if it results in a worse society and a justice system that fails every goal it has, other than locking up more people.

>>17480416
is strawmanning all you can do?

>>17480428
Considering my post you originally responded to was about punitive justice being wrong and rehabilitative prison being better for society, how is it a strawman?

You randomly brought up immigration, so if you want to talk about fallacies, you're throwing out red herrings.

>>17480445
I have never brought up immigration, you neurotic fuck

>>17478986
does not the state maintain nurseries of vice at the expense of taxpayers?

>>17480455
>>17480358

I'm responding to this post, and you responded to me. Posting is anonymous, am I supposed to differentiate between who I responded to, and the random person who's responding to me by their writing style? Clown

>>17478998
More like we collectively enforce norms largely to our collective benefit.

Example: Hey anon, being a faggot is fucking weird. Stop being such a fucking faggot and having such fucking retarded views. If you continue down this path you will increasingly feel ostracized and we will withhold our dopamine inducing praise. Now go to your room and think about ways you could be better.

>>17479872
Softening up prisons in the UK was a complete disaster

>>17480474
I think you're pathetic, in all honesty. The reason you're the way you are is because of factors mostly beyond your control. Calling other relics of the past while hailing your positions as the "way forward" makes you sound like some deranged cultist.
The world isn't your university campus, and your positions are not eternal.

>>17480251
Prisons don't exist for any of those reasons
It exists so that apes don't commit crimes because they are stuck in a box

>>17479090
Your placing no value on how homogenous of a society France is both in their culture and their ideals. If your a goat fucker have fun trying to actually live an integrated and successful life in France. A more telling example would be from the middle east

>>17479309
I disagree with the poster you’re disagreeing with but your a total fucking retard if you think predisposition is non existent

>>17480474
lol, turns out a lot of people think you're retarded

>>17480517
>positions are not eternal

But yours are, okay. What does this have to do with rehabilitative justice being worse than punitive justice? You want to be correct without having to give reasons why, other than it's just what sounds right in your head.

You spend all your time posting in an echo chamber, and have never bothered too look up any oposing views. You just like feeling like you're correct. Maybe if you went to uni and read some books that weren't written by right wing Youtubers you wouldn't be such a dimwit.

>>17480539
>but yours are, okay
how could you possibly discern that from my statement? You really are ideologically possessed
And what's with this fixation you have on right wing youtubers, and thinking that anyone who disagrees with you has to be the type who watches them? Does it make things easier for you? Does it help narrow your world into categories, i.e. the smart good boys who study criminology in a Western university and the incels who watch right-wing youtube videos all day? You're awfully close-minded, but I guess that's what university is for.
Criminology is a very bad field to graduate on, by the by. You could have gone for law for some realistic avenues, I reckon.

>>17480278
>Almost always poverty
The UK had 60 million instances of theft in 2000
It is incredibly difficult to be poor in the UK because of welfare
Also, you're mixing causes up
Crime ruins communities, not the other way around

>>17480507
Do you have a single fact to back that up

>>17480557
I studied Business with Econ, you don't have to study criminology to know that US prisons aren't fit for purpose and don't benefit society at all.

I'm glad you don't watch shitty Youtubers, though.

>>17479791
Shut the fuck up, zoomer.

>>17479006
Yes and no. You existence is limited to what you are, but your necessities are simultaneously bound to what you are.

>>17480571
Sky high crime? Try going out in Birmingham at night, if you don't have a y chromosome, the experience will be extra exciting! The hellscape known as the British slum? Millions and millions of robberies, none is ever caught and yet prisons are full of robbers?
Of course the government is very talented at deceiving the public
You'd think that we have a lower murder rate nowadays but that's at best a half truth
More attempts are made nowadays than ever before but more also survive due to modern medicine
Criminals ruin communities, not the other way around and if you don't put them in a box to keep the others safe from them, you're not going to see much improvement
But in the UK, the police is also castrated and most of them evade doing any actual research because the paperwork is too much of
The crime U-turn directly coincides with the gradual relaxation of the prison system

>>17480642
Don't worry, the tories will pay American firms they have huge shares in to come and manage people rather than the police. That's what the money party usually does.

>>17479930
it absolutely doesn't I agree but perhaps we can do better than we have now.

>>17479933
admit that you'd love it you nasty twink~~

>>17480591
Actually based. What philosopher uses this concept?

>>17480111
I keked

>>17479442
That's beyond retarded and the fact that you conflate life affirmation with vitalism and with [your understanding of] hedonism is proof enough.

>>17480659
At this point, maybe we could benefit from some of those super violent burger cops because it has gotten to the point where the police LIES to people to avoid work
It's quite ridiculous
We used to be one of the safest countries on the planet if not THE safest
Nowadays, all my life really and probably further back, you can't go out alone unless you want to be robbed and/or violated by the "impoverished"
And all this happened in a few decades without a real external cause
He was laughed at back then iirc but Macmillan was right, we never had it so good
And yet crime went zooooooooop upwards

>>17480707
Macmillan was before my time. I am inclined to agree. The 70s/80s seem like the high point of British life. Everything since has been a gradual degradation into ghetto thinking and cronyism.

Think I'd probably drop Thatcher if I could go back in time. She started our rapid decline into 'business first people last' ideology the tory party seem to live and die by.

>>17480642
Don't you think that has more to do with certain demographic changes than with the failure of rehabilitation? Crime itself rose immensely during the "tough on crime" Conservative years (the exact opposite of what you say about the "crime u-turn"). See pic related. Your "soft policing" problem seems to be less about rehabilitation and more about systematic incompetence and neglect. It's odd you deny that criminals come from impoverished communities - a well-documented effect. That's not even conservatism - that's just lunacy. Where do you think criminals come from? They are produced by communities. Most violent criminals come from low income families, have single parents, shitty childhood experiences, exposure to violence, poor education, etc. If you get rid of these social factors that produce criminals, the number of criminals - miraculously - decreases.

source for the pic
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeandjustice/bulletins/crimeinenglandandwales/yearendingdec2016

>Poverty is the parent of revolution and crime.
Aristotle, Politics, Book II, Section VI
>While crime is punished it yet increases.
Seneca, Thyestes, XXXI.

>>17478986