/lit/ - Literature

>>17460856
>tfw just realized my style is not my style, I just stole it from my two favorite authors and merged together.
Does this happen often? Is there anyways to counter this phenomenon.

>>17460874
WE. LIVE. ON. THE. SHOULDERS. OF. GIANTS.

WRITING. IS. ALWAYS. DERIVATIVE.

YOU. ARE. BUT. THE. AMALGAMATION. OF. YOUR. EXPERIENCES. AND. MEDIA. CONSUMPTION.

Good job on finding your voice, anon!

>>17460820
Any suggestions on websites?
>>17460803
Yeah, that was why the old burgerpunk threads were so much fun.
>>17460798
Eh, youre right, I meant it in the pejorative "people who complain about freedom of speech outside the context of government opression because they want to be edgelords in their use of language." If I wanted to talk real fascism there are other /lit/ threads for that. I meant it more as a joke than anything.
>>17460771
Yeah, I guess I'll go post it in some critique threads or something. Thanks.

>>17460961
>people who complain about freedom of speech outside the context of government opression because they want to be edgelords in their use of language
Okay so basically you're an authoritarian dickweed who thinks silicon valley corporate CEOs should be able to say what you can and can't say online. Great. Go fuck yourself faggot.

>>17460978
No, I'm not saying that. Now youre implying things from what I said. I wouldn't have been posting on 4chan for so long if I believed that techno-capital should be so powerful. I was just saying, as an offhanded comment, in response to a vague statement of "political" nature of a website, that it was possible, just as every other thing I jokingly listed as a possibility, that the type of person who gets very intense about the idea of internet 'free speech' could be the kind of person who would call a website like that political. Please calm down friend, but calm down out of your own, personal, autonomous choice as friends, not as some sort of authoritarian call to action on my part.

Goddamn I went way too ham on this chapter. It might almost be 8,500 when I'm done with it.

>>17461015
words I mean

>>17461015
Is that one of the girls from mahjong soul?

Also, good job, anon!

>>17460709
Two thousand if you have a fair bit of experience writing under your belt.
Over a thousand is good otherwise.
Over five hundred if you're somewhat new.
>>17460874
>Does this happen often?
Yes.
>Is there anyways to counter this phenomenon.
Not really.
Execution is a thousand times more important than originality.
>>17461015
How long did it take you?

help. One of my character's subplots looks like the plot of a short story instead of the plot of a novel. What do I do?

>>17460874
B. Travern merged Kafka and Melville. Even though he's largely forgotten today, Bolano based his character Archimboldi after him. So you could still get somewhere being a derivative hack.

>>17461075
What lesson/object/change occurs by the end of the short story section that would have a dramatic shift on the rest of the novel? How are you going to incorporate that lesson/object/change to make the reader feel like it actually happened and had effects on the world?

>>17461075
How does their subplot relate to the protagonist's arc?

>>17461066
Yes, also thanks.

>>17461074
>How long did it take you?
A record time of two whole days, maybe two and a half. There were lots of coffee and energy drink abuse invovled.

>>17461114
Fucking impressive. Well done.
Careful to not burn out though.

>>17460856
fuck your tranny OP image spamming
fuck you OP

>>17461114
Nice. I was so happy when I unlocked the biker girl. Stopped playing after a while tho. I just spent 3 minutes figuring out how to navigate a chinese wiki to find this image so I could cheers you, which was not my spam emoji. That was the "im an alcoholic" one.

>>17460961
>Any suggestions on websites?
Not him, but Spacebattle, Sufficient Velocity are the two on top of my head.

>>17460856
rot in hell animefag

Hello again /wg/. I posted here the other day about the YA/middle grade fantasy I'm working on. I decided that the first bit I posted sounded much too dour for what I was doing, so I've attempted to cartoon-ify my writing style for this next excerpt. Am I doing it competently enough that I should continue on in this way, or should I step back and attempt to hone it a bit before I crank out a whole draft like this? If you decide to read it, thank you, and apologies for the lack of italics.

https://pastebin.com/GGzEvLtZ

why is writing so hard. I've resorted to just putting out anything without worrying about quality control. will i magically improve if i keep doing this for a few years?

>>17461335
Holy shit I can't remember the last time I was an active member of a forum. Like an actual forum. Damn, man.

>>17461092
>>17461097

for context, the section revolves this character being trapped in a mysterious lab while the rest of her friends are dealing with the apocalypse. The lab has answers that can save their lives if she investigates it enough, but it also has a time machine that the character can use to go back in time, save the life of someone dear to her who she lost, and prevent the start of the apocalypse altogether. However, ultimately the friend she failed to save doesn't want to be saved if it comes at the cost of everyone in this timeline, and ultimately kills herself to prevent the character from dooming her friends

Ultimately, this leads her to investigate the cause of the apocalypse and realize that their understanding of it was wrong. the shift the world is undergoing is actually a postive one, but the steps her friends were taking to stop it would lead to extinction

it's supposed to tie into a novel-wide theme that you can't put things back together exactly the way they were before, but if you take your time to pick up the pieces you might find a way to reassemble them that's better than what you had before

Do you start writing the book inmediately or do something before it?
I'm trying to write general ideas first

>>17461857
>have idea
>write it down in a sentence
>no wait, that doesn't capture the whole idea
>write paragraph describing idea
>fuck that's not it either
>write bullet point list of events and ideas
>fuck this isn't in order
>arrange into outline form
>fuck this is a mess
>get mind map software to link characters to their profiles along with a time stamp along certain ideas
>well, this doesn't quite cover it
>add footnotes to sections
>add footnotes to footnotes
>add end notes to footnotes of footnotes
>hyperlink and cross reference all notes with every instance of the idea mentioned in idea web software
>add in the "he said"s
>???
>book

>>17461857
I did enough prewriting for the story I'm working on that I felt like I knew what the protagonist needed to develop by the end and what he'd be fighting throughout the story. I think that it helps to do a bit of focused sketch writing like that about your protagonist, at least.

>working on my stop motion toy epic
>decide on a whim to check how the first antagonist team looks together
>three out of six have nearly the same color scheme
>already have most of their arcs figured out
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

>>17461135
I just started playing seriously about a week ago, which is probably why I started slacking off on getting writing done.

Speaking of which, I finally finished editing the chapter. I don't really like posting chapter updates here since RR triggers anons so I'll spoiler it in case
https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/31062/saga-of-the-cosmic-heroes/chapter/625897/chapter-67-memories-of-toscana-rouen-the-ashes

>>17462172
jk sama, its me, burdgerponk. Message me ur mahjong soul friend code thingy. I haven't played in a hot minute.

>>17462210
>>17462172
Or just add me lol it finally opened. My Friend ID thingy is 126189038

well /wg/, I'm almost done. I'm 150k words into my novel but my excitement for it never came back. at least, for more than 2 days at a time anyway

I rely on the exhilaration and rush of ideas to function as a writer, as well as the boost from hypomania to truly find my zone and inspiration

I took breaks. they didn't work. they only slowed me down to a crawl

I don't know what else I have to do to become as good a writer as i was before

>>17460856
any way to improve my writing skills?

The fisherman rewound his fishing pole and a hooked pistol raised up from the dark sea. It was an antique pistol, something you see in those old photographs during the civil war. Rusted to hell and back. He poked his eye into the end of the barrel and found something of what looked like a piece of paper. He smacked the gun like it was a glass ketchup bottle at a local diner and outshot the coiled-up beige bullet.
He unsheathed it and revealed it was a map with a heading that went, “Dear sir, what you just found is a map to Captain Isobel’s treasure. The feared pirate leader that roamed the Seven Seas! It is not far, and I hope you find it.”
The map had a black streak pointing to a scribbled cave under some wobbly lines, presumably the waves of the sea. It also had little drawings of fishes with dimpled smiles floating around. Who was this Captain Isobel? How is this paper still intact? Is this a joke? My feet hurt—and other similar thoughts bounced in his head, but it all came to a halt. He decided to come back with his boat and equipment. If needed, he will also borrow a wetsuit and scuba equipment from his friend. Might be fun, he thought. The sky had turned into a chainmail grey. The fisherman left.
Two weeks passed, taking the grey sky on the way out. Instead, a baby blue color became a replacement for the day. The fisherman jumped off his boat, wearing only the scuba gear his friend Tony offered him. The reason? His Treasure Finder 5000 was going bananas. The reason? It found treasure under the sea. The reason? They don’t know.
He dived a bit deeper, a bit deeper and a bit deeper. The sea darkened but he knew where he was going. Common sense and other related illnesses were needed to be scrubbed out of this old sea dog if he wanted to continue the voyage. The cure was obsession and he OD’d on it.

>>17462403
He found a hole, tight like a virgin. Looks like the map, he thought. He tightened his beer gut, squeezed into the hole, and ripped the stone hole. The seawater did not flush him down the hole, for it was still too small for the ocean. He dropped his scuba equipment to the cold stone floor, creating a dink sound. He was in undies and it was cool. He went on a linear path but at the end, light bounced on the wall and flickered. He walked to the light. At the end of the path, legions of skeletons lay on the rocky floor. Each of them reflected a different era: a skeleton with a confederate kepi lay lopsided on its head; a conquistador skull looked at our plucky protagonist with a toothy grin, and a rusted knight guarded the entrance which the fisherman came from. A loud roar echoed to and fro in the cave like it was an invisible game of tennis. “What the hell was that? What the fuck was that?” the fisherman questioned calmly.

The ground was shaken and so was the fisherman. They were like maracas being played by a crack head in downtown LA. the rocky wall burst into tiny pebbles and out came this real icky dude, a real rotten kind of guy. The fisherman realized there was no treasure, but instead a disgusting guy lives here. Ouch! The fisherman farted his way out of the cave, suffocating the revolting man to a limp carcass. He got back to his boat and looked at the sky, becoming more of a velvet color and then turning into the color of kings! The fisherman knew that somewhere in the world he occupied.
Except that’s not what happened. it’s what the fisherman wanted, but Instead, he was eaten whole by the really rotten dude. His skin and meat dissolved in the belly acid and his collection of bones was pooped out. his brain however lingered in the acid, soaking it all up. The real icky dude grasps the slimy bones and rebuild it back as a skeleton. He found the scuba gear laying around near the entrance. And gave it to the skeleton for added character. A new era was etched into the cave’s history. The fisherman was wrong. the bones were the treasure. The bones.

i would like to thank the anon for editing for the first couple of paragraphs

>>17461709
sounds like shit. kill yourself

>>17462417
>He found a hole, tight like a virgin.
delete this
I can tell you're young (high-schooler most likely) and passionate, so just keep on writing, finish this novel from beginning to end. Remember, the details you put in should be for a specific reason (think about specific wording first over descriptions) and, if you want an actual career in writing, start reading books published in the last 5 years.

>Except that’s not what happened. it’s what the fisherman wanted, but Instead, he was eaten whole by the really rotten dude. His skin and meat dissolved in the belly acid and his collection of bones was pooped out

I don't know if I'm replying to a troll post now, I probably am, but if you're not.. just remember that your audience isn't retarded, you don't have to force feed them every single action, you're telling a story, not writing a screenplay.

>>17461709
Is this a YA? If it is, then it sounds like it could be interesting.

>>17462516
you'll never be published

>>17462539
I consider it YA, but it's probably too crass by publisher standards. If I go the traditional route it's going to be marketed as comedic fantasy

My concern is that while this is going on, the rest of the main cast are having larger adventures. this character's experiences seem more constrained. I use a 4-act structure and this needs to fill acts 2 and 3 sufficiently that I have time to characterize the friend.

>>17462579
from what I've read so far about your novel, it won't get published outside of being YA, so just keep that in mind (if it's entirely a passion project versus a mixture of passion and career aspirations)

Trying to get a book off the ground as someone who was born poor has drawn to my attention the classism of the publishing industry. I can't afford and editor. I can't afford an agent. I have no infrastructure other than my own will to see my writings to fruition. Does this make me stronger than others? Absolutely yes. Practically speaking though it kills my chances of getting my stuff out there. Rest assured my truth will out, but I see nothing but cowards and half-talents in all my contemporaries, because if I were a betting man I would guess they were no more a self-subsistent talent than a pop star who has an army of facilitators, cosmeticians, producers, publicists, agents, making them a reality. The ultimate triumph of art is for a working class person to have their soul heard. These are the truths that are strangled in the cradle.

>>17462587
are you going to self publish?

>>17462583
It's actually my plan to publish this specific story as a webnovel, though I have others in the pipeline that are going to be meant for traditional publishing. That wasn't originally the plan, but I think this and the series it's a part of need a serialized release schedule, because it's my goal to cultivate an active fan community and that's nearly impossible to get with condensed releases unless you get a highly popular adaptation

>>17460856
How would cowriting a work be like? Has anyone tried it before?

Nonfiction doesn't seem that bad but things like fiction and poetry seem impossible unless you intend to do some experimental piece.

Would /wg/ be interested in a Vocabulary general?

A place for writers to ask "what would be a better word for . . . " or "is there a word for . . . "

Or does /wg/ satisfy this enough?

We are so satisfied to see our enemies meet one end. Even if our own fortress is smoldering and the mountain we stand on has crumbled into a deep ocean there is no more sinister joy in knowing that no matter how high the tower all pillars of man sway and fall to the same end. When we finally contemplate this some hopeful few are struck with a certain empathy for both me and my terrible brothers who have fallen, so many of us have fallen, the oceans as deep as they were in creation, as I imagined them when my head would not stand above the water, now they are but full and the towers of man no longer are built brick by brick against the very wind and storm of the thunder but instead the mason carved the ribs of the fallen whose limbs lock in a ghastly barge which floats above abyss. The depths are infinite but so is my joy in these collapsing towers and as my twisted satisfaction will never end I tremble in imagining a instant where the brothers finally stop sinking and the tower to the heavens is no longer the falling ladder but the piled bodies spirally foot to head in infinite prostration.

>>17462656
I’ve seen husband and wife teams a couple of times

>>17462628
Maybe. I'm working on something right now that I believe in so much I will do whatever it takes. Self-publishing is the future, it's inherently democratic. The one thing you're missing when you self publish is other people getting paid to shove what you wrote into other people's attention. Marketing.
It's sort of like that old chestnut, if a tree falls in the woods and nobody is around to hear it, does it make a sound? Popularity is not a measure of quality, although they can positively correlate. Until we start seeing self-published best sellers it will still be seen as a peripheral and taboo form of publishing, fit only for losers. It's odd, because publishing is one of the last remaining media industries where this holds. You have sound cloud rappers, youtubers, blah blah. But a self-made self-promoted writer is an anomaly. This culture wants to kill writers.

>>17462706
There's quite a-lot of people making high 6 figures self-publishing on Amazon, it just doesn't seem like a-lot since there's a million self-published authors on KDP, but.. it's definitely possible to make a good living self-publishing, you just need to break through the mounds of mediocre work.

>>17462706
We should start a union.

>>17460856
hows my prose bros? Am I going to make it?

Whipped this one up right now, its suppose to be part of a longer surrealist/stream-of-consciousness piece

>>17460856
ok anons, sell me on your books by giving me a plot synopsis

>I took my regular shortcut through some woods back to my accommodation, and along the way I noticed a ginger cat playing with a downed robin in an undergrowth just off the path to my left. I stood and watched for a few moments. First, the cat would swipe the bird, sending it skidding a metre or so across the ground. Then, it would bound blithely after it before seizing it between two paws and hurling it into the air in a parabolic arc peaking well above the enraptured cat’s dilated pupils. Finally, it would trot over to the helpless creature and casually place a paw on its’ upturned breast whilst it suspiciously surveyed its’ surroundings. And so on.
>As soon as the cat noticed me creeping in his direction, the spell was broken and he scampered away, leaving the robin stranded behind, wings broken, gaze directed longingly up towards the dense canopy of branches and leaves overhead, where sunlight diffused into ethereal beams reaching mercifully down to the earth, where I stood, illuminated, shoe now hovering tantalizingly above the complex configuration of flesh, bones and feathers surrounding a still beating heart, slowly moving down, down, until the magnificent sound of crunching and cracking released the bird’s eyes and brains from the oppressive confines of a corporeal skull, painting the tip of the rubber sole of my shoe a crimson red and leaving an aureole of blood around avian remains.

Feedback?

>>17463715
whoa...just like real life...

>>17463737
What do you mean?

How feasible is the whole Web serial/Web novel shtick? Is it a really good alternative to traditional publishing? What am I in for if I go down this route?

i was determined to see a project through to completion so i plotted a book in detail in advance, wrote consistently, and suffered through the hell of editing to the point where im about to self publish, and now im enjoying full blown imposter syndrome as i finish up even tho i had beta readers say that it wasnt worthless (it is), but gotta see it through i guess or forever be a never-publish

>>17463873
Who expects worth from a self-publication, anyway?

>>17460856
waterbed in heaven animefriend

Just found this on my computer. I wrote it back in hs for I girl I found cute. There was a fb page where everyone could publish a love declaration anonymously. I had to translate it bc I'm ESL.

>My dear little Mathilde, forget the wretched lines of this bland man which calls itself in love. What an insult it would be for Eros to see you give in to the romantic ramblings of an impotent, even as a man invites you to taste the most exquisite of refinements: those of fart and shit.
>Give up the naive games of these retarded teens and let yourself be charmed by the vision I had of our superior antics. Gently you caressed my member and with my hands I picked the fruits of your puberty. Then spreading my buttocks with a graceful gesture, you suddenly decided to plunge your mouth, your tongue, your teeth into it.. Ah! The divine feeling it was. For more than two hours I had to defecate and you had decided that it would be in your mouth that I will honour you. Soon the droppings overflowed and began to flow gently down your delicate cheeks as I got harder than a Cossack. As soon as you were sated with the food I had served you, you decided that I, in turn, had to taste the stercoral delights: the brown orgy had just begun. Crouching on my chest you shitted a filthy monster that you gently spread with your ass towards my mouth where you farted ten times. At the same time, you stuffed my member into your throat and the shit it contained perfumed it like a beast.
>But this little game can only last a while: you soon knew you were running out of excrement. In a supreme effort you impaled your sublime anus on my turgid cock. And each blow that you gave on my penis made a torrent of farts shoot out of your ass which was going to roll between my thighs. We came together: the tide of cum that spurted in your ass mixed with the shit and soiled my balls with a terrible noise. Eager not to spoil this fecal ambrosia, you decided to lick them gently.
>It was when you brushed some loose hair full of shit from your forehead that I realized that I really loved you, you and those pretty green eyes looking at me lovingly.

>>17462706
Keep at it bro. I recently got a rejection from a small publishing house concerning my request to pay them for guidance around what to think about when self publishing. I mean, i understand they most prolly dont have time or whatever, but the fact that even getting advice is impossible makes me wanna shit all over them once i hopefully make it.
It’s hard not to get bitter when people aren’t even interested in your questions.

Hey /lit/, new here. Which "The Art of Fiction" am I looking for? There's so many books with that title.

>>17461503
Even though I'm new, that's what I've heard it is, for anything. Before you can do it well you must do it badly. Helps to have a critical eye too!

>>17464092
Man, there are 1000 and 1 checklists, tutorials, and step-by-step guides out there to self-publishing, traditional publishing, creating novels, etc, just one google search away. You'd have to be a full frigging tard to pay some publishing house suit to hold your hand, and they'd be idiots to waste their time doing it. It guarantees no success for you in any event.

How do you guys feel about writing a single draft, then modifying it until the desired result is achieved.

Everywhere I look, the common consensus is one where you to write a minimum of three drafts. It's fucking retarded

I just don't have the fucking time for that. Maybe if everyday had 36 hours or so. Rewriting several thousands of words several times over, really now?

Shakespeare was one Drafter, why can't I be.

>>17464806
I don't even know what a draft is I just write

>>17464806
Do people really write three separate drafts? I thought that was just
>write first draft
>revise a bunch
>ship of theseus
>is now second draft
>edit a bunch
>now third draft

>>17461502
Bump

>>17463804
It depends on what you're looking for. Worm got a TV deal, and though it hasn't panned out into anything yet, it shows that there's at least potential and enough interest for even that level of success. Web serial readers are for the most part loyal to work ethic. If you have it in you to treat it like a job, or a second job, and write every day and publish a meaty chapter 3 times a week for years, you're much more likely to see readers stay with you. However, the topics that are viable on that sort of platform are restricted. You're unlikely to get much attention if you write with high-quality but challenging prose, and it's much easier to get fans if your story has a lot of anime/manga influence. It's also very hard to out-algorithm litRPG stories, which puts me off, personally.

>>17464819
Huh? That's not what the people r/writing told me.

Stephen king(crackhead) is an example of someone who writes three separate drafts, from what read in writing advice books like writer's digest and on writing.

Apparently most prolific writers, write several drafts.

Ship of Theseus method, I like the name. But yes, I also write this way.


>>17464818
Kek. But do you edit though?

>>17464806
Depends entirely on if it's what you want. If you can nail your vision perfectly in a single draft, then great. Just roll with it.

I had to rewrite my first novel 7-8 times, because every draft was fucking senseless, broken shit, until I finally got the idea and tone down. The others since were considerably easier.

>>17464819
No. It's still the first draft, just edited.

>>17464897
>do you edit
Do I fix typos? Yes.

>>17464897
>r/writing
I know people always shit on reddit, but is this at all useful? I've heard r/hireawriter get mentioned in a not completely horrible light, is this similar?
>>17464914
I just can't comprehend writing what is effectively three whole stories all for just one.

>>17464889
Yep. I'm currently working on a litrpg serial purely for the big fanbase. I write relatively fast so I believe I can put out 4 chapters week, post 3, use 1 as a backlog. I can build a fanbase and make patreon bucks in a year or two.

Consistency is both a boon and burden for a webserial. I've seen fast food level trash make thousands of USD a month, but the moment authors don't interact or post for a month or so. The readers will migrate, those that don't follow you anyway.

>>17464906
Well shit. Hope those 7 drafts made huge a difference.

>started writing a short novella (abstractly, but directly about 3 close friends)
>wrote it slowly, but got about 30k words in 3 years
>friendships with those people disintegrated or became very restricted
>lost all motivation to continue writing
I feel like it had a certain cheerful optimism to the writing that I can't bring myself to replicate. What do?

>>17464591
>god forbid someone prefers talking in person and asking specific questions instead of reading a million guides by nobodies who didn't make it

>>17464945

>r/writing
>I know people always shit on reddit, but is this at all useful? I've heard r/hireawriter get mentioned in a not completely horrible light, is this similar?

I'd argue yes, r/writingcirclejerk unironically literally gives better advice. I'm slowly moving away from r/writing, because it seems like most people there don't read books. Only watch movies and anime.

Every fucking time I have to hear about star wars or avatar the last airbender, I want to vomit. If you want anime-level writing I'd say it's the place to study.

I've migrated to smaller sub's like storyandstyle.

>>17464970
>implying implied implications
Who guarantees the guy you're paying has any idea what he's talking about? Working at a publishing house doesn't make you a master writer, and not every publisher is the fucking star factory you think they are. In fact, most of them hover constantly on the brink of bankruptcy, especially the small ones.

But what do you know, the people in the industry can use the internet too! Some of them make their own guides! Writers who actually did make it share tips online too! Inconceivable, I know.

Talking to someone isn't going to magically turn a dumb person into a smart person, and maybe you shouldn't dream about writing if you can't read.

>>17464946
How long you spend developing your rpg system?

Wow, posting the work on a few subreddits bumped the RR views and actually got a new review. Thanks anons. I hate shilling but I do like seeing people enjoy my work.

>>17465074
I can't answer that, because I'm still working on mine. It definitely doesn't have to be perfect.

The easiest way I believe is to mimic the framework of someone else's story.

Here's a answer I found in r/litrpg a while ago and threw it in a pastebin. Helped me out.

https://pastebin.com/uFKPtTtH

>>17465108
You have to go back

>>17465220
I've been on 4chan since 2005. I don't know where I would go back to. Part of this thread is about self publishing and marketing technique. I don't know why you would participate in a thread like this and be an unproductive, bitter, and cynical dude about it. We all know Amazon fucks authors. We all know that writing has become a cult of personality with publishers looking at how many twitter followers one has. There's plenty of reasons to be angry, but, like, shouldn't we be constructive in threads like this?

>>17462386
>I rely on the exhilaration and rush of ideas to function as a writer
this is where you're going wrong. sure you'll have lots of sections where words are just flying and you're in the zone. you're also going to have sections you struggle through. I guess my advice is: don't bitch out. tough it out through the bad and you'll get back to the good.

>>17465256
You remind me of that cringe image of a bunch of 50 year old housefraus talking about how based and topkek they were on r/the_donald

>>17465298
I'd prefer not to give off that impression but I'm not going to post any differently. Sorry I offend your reasonable sensibilities to the core.

>>17460856
>Which writing software is BEST for you?
>Take this 2-minute assessment to determine which software is the best fit for your unique needs—and waste no more time in deciding!

>TAKE THE ASSESSMENT NOW!

>Here are 13 of the best writing software for writers:

1. Microsoft Word – Word Processor, $79.99

lol why include this microsoft SEO shill article in the OP

>>17465047

i picked a publishing house that publishes stuff that's similar to what i am writing. I wanted to ask questions that aren't really about the publishing part but rather related to publishing such as choosing editor, proof reader and the like. I was hoping to get suggestions and guidance from people who know people and have the same interests as i do. Not some random self made nobody who makes a living out of selling the emperor's new clothes. The point i was trying to get across to the other anon was that getting help in this endeavour (the getting a book out there) most likely won't happen.

The things i want to ask aren't answered in a book, nor on threads on the internet. I wanted to talk to people to maybe cut a corner or two, to get in touch with the right people, but it seem's that's not happening. My encouragement was to the anon that had set his mind to getting his stuff out there no matter what.

In short: you're wrong and fuck you and your retarded assumptions.

>>17465392
When I wrote the draft of the OP that included that link I was frantically searching for links before the next thread went up. I didn't have much time and I never bothered finding a new one because anyone that believes there's a difference in using scrivner, word, open office, google docs, or word perfect that would materially effect the story you are trying to tell is the same kind of guy that spends hours researching cameras without ever having taken a photo. How about this, you find a better link that reviews all the different word processing softwares out there and send it to the anime OP, and maybe they will change it.

>>17465407
good point. most articles out there are trash, it might be worth reviewing some software myself

>>17465403
Yeah, I get it, you're phenomenally stupid. You can stop elaborating on it already, my opinion of you can't turn any worse anymore

>>17465443
Write a story about a blogger who spends his days reviewing different softwares and products but something happens to him where he becomes desensitized to minor differences and every subsequent article he writes is trash and he loses his job but also finds out how to finally sit down and use the software he reviews.

>>17465534
i'll title it "the old man and the seo"

There she was, standing under a lamp post. I could see that she got prepared for our date, given that she had a nice outfit and some light makeup. It was kinda surprising, as she didn't sound that enthusiastic for our meeting. It was only a couple days ago that we met, on Facebook. Actually I had seen her on Tinder, but as she had an uncommon name in my city, I searched for her on Facebook and added her as a friend. Wasn't expecting her to accept but she did. Then I told her that she was suggested by Facebook, under the tab 'people you may know'. It was a lie of course, but I didn't care. I lied to almost every girl in my life. We exchanged greetings, and started walking to the Irish pub I told her about. Grabbed our beers and went upstairs to sit down. I took out my playing card deck and started few easy games, to make her drink faster. The discussion was stalling a bit, but it was because of her language skills in the country I resided in. After about 45 minutes of drinking and playing, she was getting tipsy. I took her waist and started kissing her. She was really shocked as it wasn't like this in her own country, and in her culture. I didn't care, I had crossed many taboos at this point of my life. We made out, kinda forcibly because she was getting shy and embarrassed, even though she was 32 years old at the time. I was 26. We made out a bit more, drank the second round and I told her that I had classes the next day, so we couldn't stay too much. It was another lie, of course, as my girlfriend at the time was waiting for me at my place. She didn't know that I had a date, she thought that I had a meetup with some buddies from school. Well, I never had morals anyway. Having cheated on countless times before, it wasn't a first. We left the pub, started walking towards her place. I wasn't expecting to score on the first date, but I get that she had a dry spell for some time. I can relate, there was a time I was single and unlucky for 3 months. It was a living hell as I was starting to feel like I was gonna explode, so I don't blame her. We are all human beings after all. We came to her place, I went to bathroom to piss and wash my face. I had drunk two pints of beer in that pub and I knew that I would have a whisky dick. I came out, we started making out more passionately, and I undressed her. She was in a good shape for a 32 years old, maybe a bit chubby but she was gorgeous. And the sex was mind blowing, her pussy was really tight. Well, Asians are really like that, some stereotypes have a pinch of reality to them I suppose. She drove me crazy, we did it twice with some pauses and her neighbours heard her cries of orgasms in the middle of the night. We finished and I told her that I had to go, as I had to wake up really early in the morning. Which was also another lie. I came home, kissed my girlfriend good night and went to sleep. She never knew what I did. I guess it's pretty easy to put on a pokerface when you don't feel guilty.

>>17465550
hehehehe. Good one.

>>17465461
>realizing he’s wrong so he goes ad hom

Schoolwork is letting up again, tomorrow I can get back to some serious writing.

>>17462587
You don't need to pay for an editor yourself (if you were to get traditionally published, the publisher would sort that for you). You also don't pay for an agent, they take commission from your sales, which is what motivates them to do good work for your book. It's cheaper to try and get trad published than to self publish but there's a higher bar in terms of quality (and connections).

>>17460856
It's not a novel, but I've been putting work into my RPG as recently as this morning.

>>17465850
Yeah, an agent is like a real estate agent. They're just middlemen with the right knowledge/connections to make things smoother for both sides. Since they make things so much easier for publishers, they're basically mandatory. No decent agent would even let you pay them to represent a book that they don't think is good enough to represent for a commission; it would tank their reputation.

>>17465403
>I wanted to talk to people to maybe cut a corner or two, to get in touch with the right people
don't we all? what makes you more worthy of cutting corners than anyone else? the fact that you offered to pay?

I started writing this little story for fun. The main character wakes up in a futuristic high tech facility and is told she's an ancient corpse resurrected to fight machine life forms. I think the idea is fun, but looking at the opening, it's just one big, extremely generic info dump. Certain things have to be established for there to be a story, but would there be any more creative way I could convey the same information?

>>17465982
Spread it out.
Have them give her only the information she needs for whatever she's soon to encounter.

>>17465392
microsoft word is the best word processor though.
i also stopped using evernote in favour of onenote years ago.

>>17466007
I use roam research for my notes but word for my writing.

>>17465982
oh that's cool so like destiny?

>>17465989
It's not really the information itself that is the problem, but more how it's essentially just another "MC wakes up in a room"-situation. Holy hell, how do you escape these?

>>17465982
Tell it from the perspective of the corpse. Make the organization that runs the program very Bureaucratic and mysterious. Drop the character into fights early and often.

Basically use all the tropes that piss you off in movies that make you shout “IF THESE CHARACTERS JUST SAT DOWN AND SHARED INFORMATION LIKE NORMAL PEOPLE THIS MOVIE WOULD ALREADY BE OVER!”

>>17466027
Damn, now that you said it, it's exactly like Destiny. Almost.

right, I need to write a novel before this whole pandemic ends and everybody expects me to go back to looking for work or entering higher education, neither of which I want to do

>>17466117
I'm in this same position except I caved and went to grad school, but then fucked up registering for this semester and took a gap. Still trying to do the novel thing, and not having school to worry about is a relief.

>>17465907
>worthy

i have no idea why one has to be more worthy than anyone to talk to anyone. I asked them, they said no which made me realise it's fucking hard to even get to talk to people. And the offer to pay was to make it worth their while. That's it. I don't know why this seems so hard to understand, but talking to or communicating directly with people is a normal thing to do. If someone sends me an email asking about things related to my proffession i'll answer them with some small guidance. If someone needs a referral i'll recommend them someone i know, if i know the kind of person they're looking for. It's called common decency. Of course, you've neither experienced it nor had any, so i guess it's no wonder i have to spell it out for you.

>>17466276
Consider the following scenario. An author writes a bad book. The author is not capable of writing a good book, but they think they have written one. (This happens every day.) That author sends their book to every agent they can find the contact information for, convinced that they're ready to publish. They receive no positive responses, and maybe no responses at all. Okay, they think, I will edit my manuscript. They edit their manuscript a bit. It's still bad. They send it off to every agent, again. They receive no positive responses. They edit it again. They have not learned how to craft a good novel. They receive no positive responses.

On and on and on this goes, until every agent has received ten emails from this man. Now, realize that one of these men, as I said, is born every day. Every day, someone finishes a novel that they think is worth publishing, but is in fact not worth reading at all. Every day, someone re-submits an edited manuscript. All of them are convinced that they've written something worth reading, and that if they simply had the connections, they wouldn't be ignored. They're wrong, of course, but they try asking agents how they can get a foot in the door - "cut a corner or two" - "get in touch with the right people" - without, of course, actually writing a better novel. Some of them are so pathetic that they even try to pay agents, offering up whatever they can of their day-job salary just to talk to the people who they perceive as gatekeeping them.

This is you. You do not understand agents' situation because you are an engineer or a student or something like that that does not have a herd of retarded men such as yourself banging on their inbox every day begging you to give them their dream job. They can't give you that dream job. Attaching an impressive manuscript to your queries is going to get you much further than trying to cheat your way past that step.

>>17466569

you are wrong and i like that you went from ad hom to trying to make a point which is totally beside the point i'm making, then going ad hom again. I understand why you feel people are retarded since you don't seem to understand the points they're making. I also like that you pretend you don't care when in fact you're doing your outmost to come out of this on top of an argument which you haven't even understood. And i'm not writing this to change your view of me but rather to point out to you that you're a misinterpreting rageboy.

Read this carefully again, (or should i caps lock it so it penetrates that dense skull of yours?): I haven't sent anyone my script, nor done any of the wrongful assumptions you mention above. Once more, you subnormal illiterate - i've asked them for referrals to people who work with this shit so i can ask those people if they want payment for a service they provide. My point was still that it was hard, not that they were wrong.
Just face the fact that you didn't get my point and go seethe somewhere else.

>>17466661
>I haven't sent anyone my script
I just scanned your post quickly but I already found your problem.

>>17466688

>changing the subject for a third time

you're dancing around the arguments like Ali. Guess it's that alzheimers doing it's work. Stop clogging the thread now, seetheboy.

>>17466746
Just Write

https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/37998/wish-mountain/chapter/609878/the-trial-of-hress-dunter-chapter-one

New chapter is up!

Just added the fourth chapter. Link goes to the first chapter for those who haven't started the story yet.

Also happy to answer questions about the story if you have any.

>>17464092
>I recently got a rejection from a small publishing house concerning my request to pay them for guidance around what to think about when self publishing
You two have been bitching back and forth for a bit now so I go back to see what started it and found this.
Question: Why would a publishing company want to give you advice about self publishing? It would completely undercut what they're doing. Why would you be at all surprised they wouldn't be interested in helping you do something that makes them irrelevant.
You want a real short list to be successful at self publishing?
1. Write whatever. Give it at least one edit.
2. Market. Market, market, market.
There, that's it. Write something okay-ish, preferably trendy, and then market. Either pay money for ads or shill everywhere or, more likely, do both. Its not complicated, I don't know why you imagine it is. But then you're also surprised a publisher doesn't want to help you get around them, so I don't know what to tell you.

>>17467130
>You two have been bitching back and forth for a bit now
I made exactly 1 post explaining the retard's situation to him and then 2 posts basically just laughing at him. I don't know about anyone else he's been talking to.

>>17467130

that's the proper way to answer. No "retard", no offensive shit. Thanks for the sincere reply anon.
Your points are totally valid, and even though i'm not sure they're undermining themselves completely since a lot of the time they have to publish fewer books than they would actually want to due to the financial risk they're taking with each book, i still think what you're saying might play a bigger role in it than i thought. Kudos for keeping it civil.

>>17467107
I followed and favorited and marked to read later.

>>17467322
lol he said the exact same thing I said before, just in more words. I guess it was the bullet points and short sentences that made it digestible to your peanut brain

>>17467514
thanks appreciated

>>17460874
Why did you copy my post from a month ago?

>>17466569
>Every day, someone finishes a novel that they think is worth publishing
Lol

>>17467730

your arguments was that agents (of which i haven't even spoken about) are busy with bullshit drafts.
His argument was that it's not in the publishing house's interest to help people self publish.

My point however (which neither yours nor that person's replies are adressing) is that that it's hard to get actual advice that isn't the advice that's all over the place (that advice being: write, market etc etc.) I ignored him missing the point since he was polite and my first posts weren't really clarified.
Now if i have questions about which editor to pick, and i mean which specific person that is a good [insert genre] editor, i believe asking a publishing house that publishes said genre should know better than your average self publishing advice that says "find the right editor for you!", right?
Of course, if it's not in their interest to give their editor's work from other sources, that's a whole nother thing than what you wrote. Just go back up and look at what you wrote. Nowhere in any of your posts have you pointed that out. Instead you're going on tangents about agents (lol), my retardation level (high), who is worthy of asking people for advice, and just generally being an argument changing little bitch that can't face the fact that he's been beside the point half the time. You were on point before i clarified what i had required from the publishing house but then you just went all over the place.

This is my last reply to you since i don't wanna clog up the thread with more of this childish bullshit.

If you wanna keep in touch, send me an email at yousuckcocks@fag(dot)com

>>17468297
You have to be 18 to post on 4chan

If anyone has any feedback on this passage from my short story, I'd appreciate hearing it. I'm hoping to have it done soon.

>>17468333
>Father Nowak wouldn't like that
wouldn't doesn't belong. say won't. or in his retard speak, wone
also above nough should be spelled nuff. and when he's thinking to himself you can get rid of every instance of "I", so Jus las winter coulda made by on a haffa bowl. Now a full ones barely nuff to get by.

If I were you I'd get real sick of writing in that accent, but if you can stomach it, keep it up.

>29
>writing on and off for ten years now
>up until three years ago I could spend all day writing
>buy house and hit epic block
>come up with ideas for novels that have great beginnings and endings but no middles
>realise most of my ideas nowadays dont work when thought or are suited for the big screen
>REEEE
Maybe I should just go back to short stories or flash fiction. Ugh

I've conceived a plot for my sequel /wg/, why does this not excite me anymore

I need to write some poetry right now, 10 pieces in a theme of my choosing. I ordered the 2 books from the OP but any online resources that could help me get creative? Feel like shit

>>17460874
Yeah, I'm trying to overcome my copying Nietzsche. But to my credit, I do believe I copy him well.

>>17460856
AAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH I SAW LAST THREAD'S OP IMAGE AND I WAS FILLED WITH HOPE BUT THIS RETARD IS BACK

FUCK YOU OP

>>17462529
It's (probably) not a troll post. It got posted over in the Flash Fiction Anthology thread (>>17455716).

Any recommendations for finding a graphic designer to make me a cover?
upwork, fiverr. /gd/ ?

>>17466661
>you went from x to x
in case you couldn't tell, there are multiple people responding to you because there are multiple people with criticisms of your position/approach to trying to get published. like the other guy said, write a good manuscript and send it in. they probably get asked for the kind of shit you were asking all the time so again, why should they help you cut corners and not anyone else? do something to prove your worth before expecting an investment in your career.

>>17469074
Sketchmob if you don't mind the anime aesthetic. There are TONS of starving SEA artists on there with extremely reasonable USD prices (like generally over 30-50$ from conversion), however, if you want to monetize at all then purchasing the copyright will cost a hefty amount (can be up to 50$ or even more)

>>17469157
Considering the 1000 figures I heard from some people, if it's the same quality that might be reasonable.

aaahhhhh how do I get over that cringe feeling where everything I write just feels pretentious to myself

>>17468447
>in his retard speak
Kek. Thanks anon, this is really helpful. It is a little tough to write, but I just read Outer Dark so I can’t help it.

>>17469531
you don't

>>17469614
nooooo

>>17469531
What feels pretentious about it?

My goal is to be published in the Magazine of Science Fiction and Fantasy, bros!

>>17469802
ngmi (Now Going to Make It)

Then I remembered why I was in there in the first place. Ok, so first
thing, pants off. I reached down to feel my jeans and damn, were they
tight. I had noticed as I was walking a bit, but they felt like damn
near a second skin to me. I tried to unbutton them like I would any
other pair, but I was having trouble with my longer nails. Frustrated I
looked down trying to see what I doing, but I was blocked by the
enormous fun melons in front of me. Getting a little ticked off at this
point, I tried and lean forward to see over them, but I accidently
leaned too far and that combined with my new weight distribution led to
me almost falling over but luckily, I caught myself at the last second
on the sink.
And of course, because nothing can go right today, I run into my next
problem as I try and pull down my pants, mainly I can't. I don't know if
I mentioned it before or not, but skinny jeans doesn't even begin to
explain these. It's weird, they feel a little loose, normal even, around
the feet. But as you travel up the leg, they become tighter, and
tighter, and when you reach my delicious, juicy ass, forget about it. I
think that's the main problem, my ass honestly seems like it should go
on another girl, like someone a good forty to fifty pounds heavier than
me. I'm exaggerating, but only a little. I remember back to the hotel
room, trying to zip up my jacket around my enormous hooters, that was
nothing compared to what I was doing here.

I had to resort to actually jumping up and down to get them off. Which
of course my chest didn't agree with. I felt them bouncing up and down
to the point I was afraid that if I put my head down, I might actually
give myself a black eye. What is the point of wearing a bra if they
still bounce around this much? Of course, as soon as I get the waistband
of the jeans down past my bodacious booty, they fell down easily. As I
straightened back up, I could feel my chest still moving around as it
settled into place the best it could, and the strain that I guess my bra
was putting on my shoulders was getting uncomfortable.

>>17468333
vary your sentence length/structure. it's especially obvious in the first paragraph but gets better as you continue. you have potential anon good job

>>17460856
I want to co-write a book with my friend, we've settled on essays most likely but the issue is I don't really know how it works.

the idea of crafting a story doesn't fill me with excitement or joy anymore. It hasn't in almost two years

I want to believe I'm still a writer, but in reality I'm a husk desperately grasping at something that used to make me happy and feeling it slip through my fingers

>finally decide to start creative writing after years of just daydreaming about it and collecting inspiration
>map out story
>have a list of all characters and their personalities, what they do, how they feel, etc
>go to write a chapter
>realize I can't actually write
>all I can do is "this happened, and then that happened, and this is how X responded"
greentexting on 4chan for 12 years has ruined my ability to tell a real story

>>17470345
So the best way I've found when you hit this point is to write it like a dialogue. You know the two characters and if you put them in a room, you know how they would talk to each other. Write that out. Then go back and think about how those characters would physically react. When does the dude angerly light a new cigarette, when does the girl start walking away to her car? After you write those in, then review what you have and start blending the edges together like you would with the photoshop smudge tool. it doesn't have to be perfect, but it does the job when you are stuck. When you do that for long enough you can start doing it in a flow state without having this structure.

Hope that helps! Please let me know how it goes!

>>17470345
Sort of like the other anon says, but if you want a bit of a crutch for your narrative, you can try writing with a "narrator character." Think the Lemony Snicket YA stuff. It's probably more natural for you to think in terms of characters, so just "act" like someone who knows how to write. Also, you probably should read more. Nobody reads something without absorbing a bit of their style, with the effect being stronger the more recently you've read them.

>>17468333
i like dialog on its own line, but that me. You have a clear, concise style going on, i like it.

>>17470345
better learn scene writing.

>>17470345
I have the same issue, though I know how to write. My grammar has simply declined due to reading garbage, borderline mtl chinese fantasy (cultivation novels). I've subconsciously picked up alot of bad habits (choppiness, and awkward prose that's stilted and overexplained) that have bled into my writing style, anyone have any advice?

>>17470496
Rewrite it after you finish writing it. Like your post, for example, has a few of the errors you are talking about directly in your post.

But you also know the real answer. You are what you eat. You can't read garbage and expect a diamond. You are what you eat.

How the fuck do I learn enough about topics with a lot of depth to be able to write about it correctly?
Like, say I am writing a historical fantasy story, where could I learn about the inner machinations of a medieval-era society? Or if I am writing a cyberpunk story, how can I learn what corporate espionage and shit are? So that my writing doesn't sound like a child is just making stuff up

>>17470517
>Like your post, for example, has a few of the errors you are talking about directly in your post.
Can you point out some of the errors I made, and how I can fix them?

>>17470567
I have the same issue, though I know how to write. My grammar has simply declined due to reading garbage, borderline mtl chinese fantasy (cultivation novels). I've subconsciously picked up alot of bad habits (choppiness, and awkward prose that's stilted and overexplained) that have bled into my writing style, anyone have any advice?
I'd rewrite it as
>I have the same issue, though I'd like to think I know how to write. Some problems have cropped up recently, though. My grammar has suffered from all the garbage I've consumed. Borderline machine translation Chinese stuff. I think I've picked up some bad habits from reading too much of it. Everything I write seems choppy, awkward, and overexplained. That kind of awkward prose has bled into my own writing style. Does anyone have any advice? My life is suffering.
But that's my take on your message with my own "prose". Your ideas are there, but it's like you don't connect any of them fluidly. It feels like a gravel beach instead of a fine grain that gets washed away by the ocean.

>>17470589
>>17470567
Ha, and then I spotted a few errors in my own rendition. But that's the point of editing, right?

>>17466007
The 90s calling? Word doesn’t do shit. Scrivener. Scrivener. Scrivener.

>>17470565
Just research real life (or fantastical) equivalents or what period you want to write in. For example, GRR Martin took inspiration from the tudors, the plantagents, and the war of the roses; Tolkein took inspiration from the norse mythos; most fantasy authors take inspiration from the arthurian mythos, tolkein, and greek mythology. It just depends on what YOU want to write anon.

>>17470589
I see. I ramble on for long with my clauses, and I'm missing transitional phrases needed to bind my ideas together. Thank you anon. Because of your input, I have a better of idea of what I need to focus on.

>>17470596
I've never used Scrivener. What benefits does it offer over Microsoft Word?

>>17470636
It actually does something. It’s not just a brick you write on. It completely organizes your whole project.

>>17470626
Nice! Glad I could help. There's nothing wrong, technically, with a four page long clause a la DFW, but you just gotta do it right.

>>17470636
I've only used it for a few days, but what works for me is how you can outline on the corkboard and then drill down from the synopsis of something in the folder structure (of part, chapter, scene etc.) to the actual bit of text you're looking for.

What I don't like is that it's not exactly feature-complete on Windows. If you're going to get it and have a choice, get it on mac.

>>17470592
The 90s was wordperfect though.

On a bright sunny day, F. Gardener made a decision. This decision, simple and selfish, would affect Matt's life more than Gardener's and would lead to the most frantic detective story since Sherlock Holmes. It would all over the news, the papers, twitter, Facebook, you know, all over the internet. Anyways, here goes


Gardener sat down on this dusty chair in front of his 2017 windows 10 PC, slanted rays of amber sunlight from the glass windows falling on his face. You could see the dust in the sunlight and Gardener could see, in this dust, his life. Dust was all powdered particles and Gardener remembered a kid in fourth grade telling him about air molecules. The kid had been referring to the dust Gardener now saw and this made him chuckle. Kids sure love explanation through fabrication, he thought. He leaned forward and ran his fingers through the keyboard. The dust wafted up to join the line of dust at Gardener's nose. Fascinating!How long it had been, how he had waited for this day, an inspiration shot through him. It was like water bursting out of a high pressure pipe, a crack in the pipe by some kid at school, the water being Garderner's adrenaline. He said this to himself and in his head, he felt like a genius. What a clever metaphor! I could write a story, he said to himself. And thus began, the garderner chronicle spanning 2 decades, the Andromeda galaxy and the anime forum of the, then underground internet.

Cont?

For the third time that day, Alex stepped through his front door, locked it behind him, and walked up the road. Work didn’t start until 4 o’clock, but he liked to allow himself time to wander before arriving. He always imagined himself using that hour to smoke on the wall of the cemetery, striking up conversations with the bus stop dwellers. He’d ask them about the weather and then about their job, he’d display all the right emotions at the right times, and he’d end the conversation by flicking his cigarette away and mumbling something about Sod’s law. Sadly, he hated smoking and only the college students took the bus anymore, and they never had anything to say. Instead, as usual, he resorted to walking slowly and peering into the high windows of the buildings around him. Imagining that the office workers were peering back and passing notes to each other normally filled him with a great sense of importance, but today there were only empty chairs and adverts playing on large televisions. This frustrated him, but his attention soon turned to the busy road – a red car had just sped past and he could have sworn the driver was looking at him. The endless bickering at home had clearly affected him, but he had never found himself literally chasing cars before. He shook off the thought and sped up a little, hoping to confirm his suspicions. Alex carried on this way, both in and out of reality. Schrodinger’s Man, his mother called it.

Beginning of a short story. I am shit, yes?

>>17470869
Slow down and it might be decent. You tend to jump a lot, don't

>>17470869
Difficult to judge as of now. I’m curious and want to read more though, so I guess it’s successful.
Just make sure you divvy up the paragraph and include a plot. Alex’s motivations are a bit murky right now.
If you’re digging into that soon, discard the above.

>>17470068
>>17470422
Thank you very much anons. That's super helpful to hear.

How much rewriting and editing would you guys expect and be ok with and how much do professional editors actually do for professional writers?
My brother let me read his first "finished" novel after finishing various drafts of about 4 different ones over the last 5 years and he doesn't seem to be getting my notes, so all I can think of is just taking a chapter and rewriting the entire thing but don't want him to think I'm stepping on his toes or trying to steal it. I have no interest in becoming a writer myself.

>>17468988

They want to weed us out man. They feel insecure when something reminds them of real life and the fact that they are partially responsible for their shit lives. So instead, they just keep forcing their imaginary worlds upon everything around them until reality stops knocking. The internet is their domain. Well, at least 4chan is.

>>17470636
i only just got it over the last few days as well but it means that instead of a huge disordered mess of notes, ive got some structure and it looks good for plotting things out scene by scene which is what i want

>>17471073
your brother will have to learn the hard way

>>17460856
>The Art of Fiction
Which one?? There's a ton lol

>>17472038
That means you have to read all of them

>>17460856
Any PDFs of the prose books?

Anyone here ever tried publishing low content books?

https://thinkwritten.com/low-content-books/

Any free prose guides/writing exercises that are worthwhile? I don't have the money for any new books right now but I want to start immediately

Do you mind if I ask your opinion about my work?

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1CEMcOkvaXDWkjSpzjRCndaZ33E-AvdcV/view?usp=sharing

>>17472313
Everyone here makes low content books. In fact, most are so low on content, there's no actual content at all

>>17472562
rood, I write very seldom and slowly, not never at all

>>17472548
Reads like every other unrequited love letter I've ever read. In terms of the layout, the illustrations are nice. Would put on a side table as a house ornament.

>>17472562
Speak for yourself

>>17472544
One exercise I used to do a lot of was 50 word flash fiction. It teaches you to be efficient with your words; to say more with less.
If you write fantasy or sci-fi, you'll find prompts and examples on the r/fantasy writers and r/scifiwriters subreddit.

I'm going to pirate Scriviner.

>>17472825
Buy it.

>>17473156
Too late, already downloaded it. If it proves useful and I'll gain enough money with my book I'll think about it.

I started a new project on the 20th last month and am now around 20k. Is this a good pace for a first draft with light editing along the way?

>>17473189
You know there's a trial for that kind of thing? The 30 days of use trial is quite neat.

Am I allowed to post here if I'm writing the script for a serious VN

>>17473250
Better off on /trash/

>>17473193
Sure

>>17468333
I like this, it is pleasant to read and it is clear that it takes place in a fantasy/maybe sci-if setting.

>>17468333
Like others have said, up until the last sentence of the 3rd ¶, it reads like a bulletin of similar lengthed points. The language is smart but not superfluous.

>>17473483
Also,
>or the twelve men dead from his hand.

doesn’t seem to flow as good as other simpler alternatives. I’d experiment with different versions of this line to see if it reads better.

>the magazine has accepted my stuff but theyve ghosted me when i sent them the slightly edited versions
what do bros. i dont want them to be published in that state?

>>17473688
Have you sent a nudge? Sometimes they forget stuff, but are still interested.

two island stories
I
A letter in a bottle said we ran out of time and so Mainland would disband us. We were already mostly disbanded. Everyone except me and Johan and his wife were dead. But Mainland was rightfully anxious because we had found the ship before them.
The ship was big. It had beached on the shore and was long abandoned. It took an hour to get in and find the diving room. We searched around for things we could trade with the natives for a lifetime supply of food and maybe a hut to live in.
I found an atmospheric pressure diving suit. I got inside. I tried to move but the suit was too heavy. I couldnt get out either. I told Johan to come get me out of it. Johan came over with a harpoon gun he had found lying around. He started grinning once he grasped the nature of my situation. Then he pushed it over to the ground. When it fell I hit my head really bad. I cursed him, threatened him, apologized, pleaded for my life, cried and cursed him again. He went over to his wife and shot her in the face with the harpoon. He zipped it back and reloaded the spear.
“AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGHHHHHHHH!!!!!! Stop Johan!!!! Stooop!!! Get me out and I’ll get lost!!! You’ll never see me again!!! I’ll sign anything you want!!! FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK!!!”
“You two weren’t quiet enough behind the bushes last night were you captain?”
“It must have been the natives! You know how they’re like! They’re like rabbits the savages!!!”
The endblade pierced the glass of the helmet and shot through my eye. Then I bled to death.
II
Music kept playing as the 72nd crashed and sunk down. Jerico, Gestalt and the kitchen staff survived. They washed ashore on an island. They caughed up the water in their lungs and sobered up. Jerico and Gestalt stared at each other for a moment trying to make heads or tails of what was to happen next. Then Jerico got up and ran away.
“What are you waitinng for! Run after him! He’s a spy and a traitor!!!”
But they didn’t speak Dutch.
“Vamos!”
Nor did they speak Spanish. So he gave up and settled down with them on the beach.
Meanwhile Jerico was deep in the jungle trying to find a stick to sharpen and make into a spear. He found a cave. There were mushrooms inside. He was very hungry. They were the wrong kind of mushrooms.
The kitchen staff was cooking a crab they had found on the beach. Gestalt was kicking down trees. The staff started arguing about the cooking process. A howl came from inside the jungle. They stood still in anticipation and silence. From behind the bushes Jerico came out wearing the carcass of an animal with blood still dripping down and a spear made out of bone. The staff scattered out and hid among the rocks and palm trees. Gestalt ran away screaming in terror, towards the sea. Jerico ran after him. They swam out into the horizon, never to return.

>>17473908
At night, the kitchen staff enjoyed a fine dinner of crabs with a side of coconuts under the shimmering moonlight, accompanied by music from the sunken 72nd.

>write the beginning of a book
>decide fuck it, gonna write a short story as practice first before I get too far in
>short story ends up 40 pages
>ends up more organized than the 30 pages I have of the book
>want to just take the short story and make it into the new book, abandon old book

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

>>17474648
>halfass old thing
>get tired of it not even 30 pages in
>do something else under the guise of 'practice'
>wtf does that even mean
>2nd thing ends up better
do it. I mean are you surprised? although, maybe the 40 page short story only seems more organized because you've put down all the plot points whereas with the 30 page introduction you've barely gotten anything down yet

Not great man, not great. I just figured out my supposedly "leading character" is an uninteresting blank page, an empty vessel with no free will nor agenda on her own.

>>17460893
^give this guy more attention

>>17474784
Sounds like the perfect woman

>>17470345
Show emotion.

>>17474877
I don't like "empty vessel" leads - they are just pushed from one place to another like ragdolls. It's overplayed and boring.

>>17472745
Thank you v. much!

Is there a common modern way to make a little bit of money with written stories? Patreon? Kindle?

I've already got a career that I like, but I also like to write horror stories. I also draw a lot of porn, and I could be making thousands off of commissions, but I don't want any of that shit coming into my real life. But if there were a way to profit off of horror writing I wouldn't mind.

>>17460856
Wrote 1k today, 3k yesterday.
Just broke 50k total.
Have sent first part of book to a friend to review it.
Thanks for your support, my guys and gals.

I have two first names and they're retarded names at that, how the fuck do I create a pen-name that people will like? Any ideas, /wg/?

>>17475498
use your initials and a last name that sounds good when read aloud with those initials.

>>17473193
That's a great pace.

/wg/, how do I get excited for my next novel?

>>17475498
I have a foreign name that no one can pronounce correctly

>>17475530
thank you, I'll try that out (my first and last name is an abbreviation that people won't take seriously, so might have to make up 2 new names)

>>17475685
what are you going to do when you publish a book? use a pen name?

>>17475602
Get a buddy who likes your writing and send each other bits as you write.

>>17475602
>how do I get excited
now there's the rub

>>17475685
Me too. I'm hoping it will make me seem interesting and sell more books to hopeless libs.

>>17473638
Thanks for reading, hope it really was pleasant. I know what you mean about that last line, I've been struggling with the phrasing of it.
>>17473539
Thank you anon. Re-reading it I can really see the problems with that first paragraph. Appreciate the help.

>>17470869
I would spend more time with some of the metaphors you're making. It sounds a little awkward just saying that the dust was meant to be Gardner's life or that the water was Gardner's adrenaline.
>How long it had been, how he had waited for this day, an inspiration shot through him.
Certain sentences like this also sound a little awkward. Sounds like an interesting start, though.

>>17475498
Okay Fannie Shanda-Lear

>>17460856
whirling wind zones licking overcast skies— i fell on ip adress of indecipherable counts. it blazes through the atmosphere to vault me into space. inside me an unrecognisable diety vanishes in— i descend onto bricks of air, sporing the sky of multiple colours of dirt with every bump. i cease, being with every air

>>17475889
Real funny.

>>17460874
Most art is born as immitation, not innovation

>>17476175
Tell that to the greeks.

>>17460856
who is this cute anime girl

>>17476212
>nothing new under the sun

pretty sure they didn't need to be told

>>17476259
Honestly, what’s the point of everything at this point just derivative from something else?

>>17476295
>what's the point of creating a "machine gun" when the rifled musket already exists?

>>17476325
Rifled Musket already did the job well, why make another?

I don't write prose, just many iterations of my outlines. Sometimes I write them in green text, others in full sentence and paragraphs. Sometimes I take the paragraphs and turn them into greentext bulletpoints.
Every time I either tear it all apart or get a little bit further into a plot that will never be finished.
At this point, I'm struggling with my kick off of the third act, internalizing it as the "all plot points converge in Cloud City". The players are all on the board, I just don't know how to get them all on the same square at once.

Has fiction just sort of blacklisted adverbs/adjectives as dialogue tags? Like if I leave some in a piece and shop it around, will it get tossed aside on sight?

>>17476439
>Sometimes I write them in green text
This gives me an idea. Maybe I should write an epic poem style 100k+ word greentext.

>>17476464
Maybe the more racist adverbs/adjectives? Unless it's time-appropriate?

>>17476439
outlines are unironically more of a hindrance to writing than not. if your outline for a projected 100k word book is more than, say, 5ish pages, you're likely wasting your time

>>17476482
>mfw tempted to use the word niggardly in my story
one day

>>17476569
Pretty sure most literature agencies know what that is and it's been used recently.

>>17476569
>niggardly
When has that been ban? Pretty sure people still use this.

>>17476464
I don't know if it will get tossed aside on sight but it is frowned upon. I don't know, I think it's a silly rule.

>>17476551
>5 page outlines
Writing is best when you jump into it blind and let your thoughts flow. Don't be burdened by your past self's plans.

>>17476464
Depends on your genre, mostly. YA/middle grade loves them. The older your target audience, the fewer of them you can get away with.

>>17476716
Any reason for that?

If you're just starting out, outlines are more than helpful because you likely will not have a good grasp on story structure or pacing. As time goes on and the more you write the need for an outline dwindles, depending on the kind of book you're writing of course
Needless to say anyone telling you outlines are a hindrance either have enough experience to make it so for themselves, or don't know what they're talking about.

>>17476464
Using them every once in a while is fine. In fact, I'd say this is better than not using them at all. It'll add an element of surprise/variety to your writing. This rule is so newbie writers don't spam words like "forcefully," "angrily," "excitedly" after each time they use "said" or whatever they replaced it with.

>>17476551
>>17476714
I just need to know where things are going before I can begin. I'm giving myself spaces to fill in as I arrive to them, but for the big moments I feel like it's necessary for the structure.

>>17476904
It's also a nice excuse for me not to write. I'm afraid of my prose and ability to actually write. I'm much more comfortable in the worldbuilding/structure department, which is usually what I do to help with my friend's writing.
It is what it is.

>>17476902
Not him but if there's a longer conversation between just two people what's the best way to go about it?
I feel like just writing down "x said, responded, interrupted, etc." is far too repetitive but I haven't been able to come up with any solution to it.
I think just forgoing the dialogue tags altogether would work plenty of the time. I'm not writing a professional book or anything that's going to get published if that's relevant.

>>17477017
I've recently just started leaving out the dialogue tags unless a character's tone drastically changes, in a way that simple punctuation can't convey.

>>17477167
And has it worked?

>>17477430
It's a miserable failure.

>>17477440
Any reason for it?

Why do my characters always have dead people in their lives?

>>17477167
>>17477440
I did that with something I ended up dropping last year and I had some complaints about it. This time, as I said, I've been forcing myself to add them and I haven't gotten any complaints even though I think it's worse.
Maybe it's something brought about as a result of looking at the story differently when you're the one writing it; where it seems to be much better to you but the readers end up enjoying it less?
>>17477462
Lots of people have had people they know die.

>>17477017
Use the dialogue tags once at the start of the conversation, or if you think the reader needs reminding of who is speaking.

I mean, this isn't rocket science. You'd see something similar if you picked up any book.

>>17476464
If they're there they need to be there for a good reason. It's far too easy to overuse them when other parts of the text already convey the information that they would.

>>17477462
I mean, they probably don't anymore.

>>17477491
I try to avoid the "said" tags and just make characters do something during their dialogue. A fidget, a cough, a sneeze. Usually every 3-5 lines just to throw the reader a bone.

>>17477541
This is good. But I hope you didn't make it redundant?

>>17477541
"bad move, bruv," he sneezed, "bad move."

>>17477541
Why are new writers so fucking scared of "said"?

>>17477730
Because people here and in the traditional publishing said that's one of many red flags?

>>17477638
Sneed

>>17477736
Too much said is bad but messing around too much with alternate dialogues is also bad, and removing dialogue tags or punctuation altogether is also bad. The only solution is to get rid of dialogue entirely.

>>17468932
>But to my credit, I do believe I copy him well.
Well, at least it's something.
I was told some of the thing i have written seemed like edgar allan poe stuff, for me it was a compliment.

>>17477763
Based autist.

>>17477778
Won't fly when your agent tells you to rewrite.

Hello writefrens
I finished a short story, started before the general was around. Used much of your crits to get here, and now it's done.
Feel free to leave a comment on it what you think, or crit.
Thanks!
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1lef51jBNK3sRIR6IwqdVLnaTIEdZjFhynuLsaPBUeEk/edit

>>17472548
is this supposed to be poetry?

>>17476902
I thought he meant using odd verbs that don't actually describe speech.
>"Pass the sour cream," burped Joseph.
>"You are such a little dork," noogied Julie.

>>17477736
No one worth their shit says "said" is bad. They usually say it's basically invisible and to be used in at least 90% of tags.

posted this on the write what's on your mind thread, figured this was a much better place to post it.

there's four stories that i want to write, but right now i'm just doing one of the four in particular. i have a lot of notes saved, choc full of drafts, three mbs worth of potential descriptions and dialogues to use in any of my stories, catalogued by which story the line will be used in and which character might say it, or which character a description might fall under. some of these lines i have written myself, others i have taken anywhere on the internet, some i have repurposed and modified or just used as an inspiration to make up sentences.

i made another note where i have different chapters of one of my stories, the one i'm doing right now, where i try to position all the lines and description that fit that chapter the most, basically trying to make up context. there's just a problem: it's incredibly overwhelming. it's hard to choose which line should belong where and when and which character would be supposed to say which line when to who, etc. i'm trying to structure something in the most convoluted time-consuming retarded way possible, just to make something that fits perfectly, like staking puzzle pieces together.

whenever i think i'm done i always feel like i need to rummage through my draft archive to find the perfect line of dialogue or passage of description for this particular thing i'm trying to write instead of just writing it myself because i have a very hard time trying to come up with something off the cuff by myself.

sometimes i really think these stories will never see the light of day. the fact that i have a clock ticking on the back of my mind doesn't help, but that's another issue in and of itself that i won't get into in this post.

i don't want to give up, i've accrued so much material, but it feels so hard.

normal people can just write. normal people don't have to think about it too hard. i lack that. i know what i want to do in the beginning middle and end, but i don't know what to do AROUND the beginning middle and end.

forgot to mention that this one particular story that i'm writing right now is supposed to be the easiest one to do out of all four of them. i was meant to write this just to have fun, for myself, not giving a shit about how it'd come out but here i am.

i tried to just write recently and it went well, but now i'm stuck again and if i try to write by myself without relying on my drafts trying to handpick something that fits, if i try to write something without doing that, i can feel the fucking cringe growing inside of me. i don't know what to do. i should just do it, but it feels easier said than done... but i really want to write this thing and finish it.

i'm not giving myself a chance aren't i?

>>17477980
Teenage Augra?

>>17478105
this might actually be a good problem to have in the sense that it's an advanced or expert level issue. the challenge of expert level problems is that the pool of easy answers has dried up. for master level problems, ultimately you'll be the only one who will be able to solve them. my best shot at advice is to use filler that is consciously reduced to bare elements, flag that section with an editor's note, then return to it when you're really feeling inspired or when it's the last thing you have to deal with. sometimes the broader context laid down in the document will help you to fill in the gap. i hope i helped somewhat but, again, this is a very tricky and technical issue. it might require you to reevaluate the intensity of your prep work. best of luck!

>>17478239
>it might require you to reevaluate the intensity of your prep work.
but also the specificity of it. because the demands of the text will always be a product of the document, it's unlikely you'll be able to pull material from elsewhere to meet that demand. trying to puzzle in a lot of disparate elements like that is really very maddening, and such a practice might need to be abandoned.

>>17478279
For as difficult as it may be, it could be worthwhile to read through the documents a final time and delete them as you finish them. Leave only the best in your mind or the things you absolutely need to leave on a page for later.

>>17478303
this is actually something i practice as well. my theory is that if something is worth committing to page it ought to be memorable enough to survive a few days in my mind.

I'm going to do it, I'm going to write a weeb story

>>17478327
I never go that severe, but I do run through my idea/note pages and pull out the things I do/don't want to use in the future. Just helps reduce the visual clutter. There can be very old draft ideas somewhere and it doesn't do any good to the future story if I know I'm not going to use it.

>>17478335
Go for it, nobody was stopping you in the first place, anon.

>>17478335
I hope it has lots of incest

>>17460856
>watching booktuber
>booktuber reccs a book that is relatively obscure and has praise for notable people
>try to find information on the author
>nothing
>give up
>months later I try again upon watching the video and reading his book
>he works at a uni near me

Should I email him and give him praise? I am a student at another uni but is this how you network? Also, a professor in my uni is a pretty notable poet too. Do I email them and tell them to check out what I'm working on while simultaneously sucking their dicks?

>>17478458
Yes, it's the quickest way to be published.

>>17478458
Find his office, go up beside him and whisper "I love your work" with enough force to ensure copious amounts of your saliva land inside his ear canal

>>17478458
slobber that wang and don't get gamergate'd. used to be so much easier.

>>17478458
Yes you should reach out and network, worst case scenario they blow you off with a few short thank yous or whatever.

>>17476225
>who is this cute anime girl
Shirogane Noel, she's pretty much /lit/ approved despite her appearance. She has read classic Chinese, Korean and Japanese Literature and is planning on reading western literature.

>>17478567
I was hoping it was a character from an anime and am now disappointed it's just a virtual e-thot

>>17478335
What makes it weeb

>>17478581
The tone, and the fact the characters are adolescents.

>>17478576
Noel is not a e-thot. She's incredibly well-read and she has a bachelor's in science.

>>17478458
Listen to this, anon, >>17478538 you literally gain something by doing this and lose nothing if nothing comes out of it.

>>17478603
There's a whole board for your kind now.

>>17478603
Maybe she can tell you that it is scientifically impossible for her to exist then

>>17478458
So, who's the obscure author?

>>17478630
if she don't exist then why you talkin about her. checkmate, atheist.

>>17478617
There is?

>>17478646
/k/, /his/, /int/, /jp/, /lit/, /tg/ are the ones on top of my head.

>>17478646

>>17478538
>Yes you should reach out and network,
How much of a factor is networking anyway?

>>17478664
Just delete this whole fucking website already. What a joke.

>>17478677
In pretty much every industry, it's more about who you know instead of what you know.

>>17478677
Knowing the right people makes being publish a lot easier. Especially when the criteria of being publish is arbitrary to begin with.

>>17478682
It was basically made as a containment board because vtuber posting was overtaking everything else on /jp/. The vtuber craze is only getting stronger.

>>17478688
So like this anon said? >>17478693

>>17478703
Yep. Knowing the right people opens a lot of doors, no matter what kind of job you're going into.

>>17478702
vtuber are to /jp/ what 2hu is to the rest of the boards.

>>17478702
that shit is pure mental illness like what the fuck, I have not even thought of researching in fear of losing any more hope

>>17478711
Isn't that sorta nepotistic?

>>17478682
everyone who's been here forever knows that it was inevitable.

>>17478718
Yes, very. That's how the world works.

>>17478721
The entire board is optional. Much to /jp's/ chagrin,

>>17478724
Bullshit, why haven’t people stop it?

>>17478718
Not really. It's not a relative you're giving a hand out too, it's another professional who you know does good work and can vouch for.

>>17478736
Still though, it gives power to a select few individuals.

>>17478732
Doing things the fair way is harder, takes more effort, and isn't a lot less arbitrary.

>>17478732
There's not a lot you can do to stop it. Life is not meritocratic, no matter how much many of us want it to be. People are generally more willing to trust people they already know rather than people they don't know. So if you're looking to hire, promote, publish, etc. someone, who do you think they're going to pick? Their friends, or some random person they just met?

New thread is up for those who want to switch.

>>17478772

So I was on a thread on /tg/ about geographical worldbuilding and feel this question is also appropriate to ask here, just extrapolate it to all dimensions of fictional believability and realism beyond geography, it can be easily applied as far as the psychology and behavior of characters. I'm ESL so I'm sorry in advance if it's hard to understand my point:

How much effort do you guys put into creating geography that makes sense? It's the whole scifi issue where you may go through tons of effort trying to make things be logical but when it comes down to it, if something in the realm of speculative fiction is sufficiently analyzed from a scientific point of view, it will always be exposed as an unrealistic crock of shit(even if it takes 100 years to dismantle it in light of further discoveries).

Do you just make it believable enough with common sense logic to avoid the more obvious mistakes(like don't put a scorching desert next to frozen tundra) so non-experts like you and other common folk cant immediately point out the flaws and question its logic?
Like for example, in those medical dramas, most people can enjoy them just fine without overthinking it but if actual doctors try to watch them, no matter how hard they try to accept its just dramatized fiction and do their best to suspend their disbelief, they will still be involuntarily taken out of it, constantly cringing and rolling their eyes at the ridiculous inaccuracies.

Or can we just accept its all pure escapist nonsensical schlock where anything goes and embrace that things are the way they are for maximum entertainment? Because if that's the case, why do we see everyone holding back and making futile attempts at making things adhere to the constraints of realism? If its really just about keeping it believable enough with things that don't blatantly challenge the basic understanding of laymen, doesn't that mean ignorance is an essential part of what allows us to enjoy speculative world building? Because again, if we can simply 100% accept it just comes down to set up whatever accomplishes maximum entertainment and turning some of our brain off there's a whole lot of unnecessary and even counterproductive effort in orchestrating events that feel grounded.

>>17478815
High detail world building is really boring if you're writing a story and not a game manual. Things that don't contribute to the story or themes in some way don't really matter. It's fine to have some kind of framework for your own personal use but there's little point getting autistic about it beyond self indulgence. Even realistic fiction will have "unrealistic geography" sometimes.

>>17478815
The only time I bothered to care about geography was in a fantasy world I created. I just started with an unrealistic concept, then had fun taking it to "logical" results of such features.

For example, the first concept was a huge mountain range stretching north to south on the west coast of a pangea like continent, several times taller than the Himalayas.

So after the mountains grow to a certain height, the air gets to thin to cause erosion, so the mountains keep growing, except for places where there's jet streams. Then on the other side of the mountains there's a correspondingly huge backarc depression, filled with a giant freshwater sea. This is the headwaters of a massive river that flows east across the entire pangea continent, and other geographical features are based on river concepts. So there's a huge gorge where Rhine and Danube style river castles are the dominate human features. Then there's a massive river plain where the river meanders insanely, and all the land is rich and arable from seasonal floods, and farming and overpopulation is an issue. Then the delta area is a massive tropical rainforest like the Amazon with all the kind of weird shit you've got there.

So go ahead and feel free to have something fantastical, like frozen tundra next to a scorching desert. But maybe try to come up with a reason, like the tundra is at a super high elevation. Or if the tundra next to the desert isn't important for the story in the first place, don't bother to do it.

frozen tundra next to scorching desert literally happens in video games all the time

>>17478894
Antarctica is a frozen tundra and it has a desert.

>>17478894
video games are low tier entertainment, unlike /tg/ game manuals

>>17478898
it's not a scorching desert

>>17478905
Clearly, you never heard of polar deserts.

>>17478912
clearly you've never heard of scorching

>>17478930
Clearly you've never heard of the antarctic sun

>>17478839
>>17478888
Like I said, I was making an argument beyond worldbuilding, basically about straddling the line between realism/believability and quality engaging fictional(which by nature inevitably defies scientific logic to some degree)

For example, about character behavior, you may think of Hannibal Lecter in Silence of the Lambs as a really engaging, well written character. That said, some genius psychologist from the future that fully understands how human brains work would immediately pinpoint an exhaustive plethora of reasons for why the character is ridiculously unrealistic and not at all grounded in reality. In that case, if you were to argue characters are great not because of how realistic they are and we should overlook the logical flaws of fictional narratives then how come we go through so much effort of making things believable when after all its not about realism? Because if its about making quality engaging fiction while still maintaining a level of believability, enough to fool our ignorant selves(by avoiding the more blatant shit that immediately takes us out of it for making no sense) and keeping us oblivious or more willing to overlook and not overthink the less obvious, subtler inaccuracies, the only reason those inaccuracies are subtle/less obvious and therefore more easily given a pass is because of our own lack of an immediate deeper understanding of the extent those aspects defy reason, our enjoyment of fiction is bound to a degree by our intellectual limitations.

>>17477541
>I try to avoid the "said" tags and just make characters do something during their dialogue.
spotted the fanfiction writer