/lit/ - Literature

I don't know what you mean by 'based', but Hobbes is certainly the bedrock and foundation upon which all political philosophy is based on. When you read Hobbes, you are preparing yourself for Rousseau, Say, the Federalists, everyone. You are preparing yourself for the idea of government.

>>17456690
based boomer

>>17456675
He's like a retarded Locke

>>17456690
>Hobbes is certainly the bedrock and foundation upon which all political philosophy is based on.
But that's Plato. He even formulated an ancient version of the social contract, he just didn't call it that.

>>17456703
Not recent political philosophy, no way.

I think Plato has its place in recent political philosophy but Hobbes does to an even greater degree, especially seeing as he was influenced by Christianity, with an entire section on Ecclesiastical nation states.

>>17456690
you misspelt Augustine.

>>17456697
Locke is the smug, dishonest version of Hobbes

>>17456715
You can claim Hobbes is the father of modern political philosophy but Plato is the one who laid the foundations for all of political philosophy that was to follow.

>>17456675
>white guy
>based
Lol no

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>>17456728
Not really even necessarily modern. We're talking about the last 300+ years being influenced by Hobbes.

>>17456675
His stance on politics is. His views about the human condition are not, not everyone is a piece of shit. He made a bunch of assumptions that have since been disproven due to modern anthropology

>>17456748
The modern period started in the 1500s

>>17456762
>modern anthropology
Modern anthropology is an absolute meme totally unwilling to entertain a bunch of uncomfortable issues

>>17456764
Whatever, I don't care what the consensus is on the 'period's of the books. Every era had a different notion of what was modern anyway.

Political philosophy was largely shaped by Hobbes. In a larger way than Plato, although I am certain Plato influenced certain political philosophers very much, including Rousseau.

Plato and Rousseau, after all, go hand-in-hand.

Hobbes is the best modern political theory philosopher just like Kant is the best modern metaphysical, epistemological, and moral philosopher. Kant didn't have to fix political theory because he just agreed with Hobbes like every intellectually honest and competent post-Hobbes philosopher.

>>17456779
The modern era is over, by the father of modern political philosophy i meant that he was highly influential for the political thought of his time as well as contemporary political philosophy, by extension. Also Hobbes himself was influenced by the ideas of Plato and Aristotle, which is why they are considered the pillars of western political thought.
"If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of Giants."

>>17456806
What you said is fine.

>>17456806
oh ok then

>>17456779
>In a larger way than Plato
Stop doing drugs. Plato and Aristotle are unmatched in terms of infleunce and competence in all philosophy. Also Hobbes took a lot of his political theory from Thucydides. You can't really compare anything modern with the Greeks. The Ancients are superior in every single way all the time despite how incredibly good Hobbes and Kant are.

>>17456762
>been disproven due to modern anthropology

>>17456675
Hobbes is pure anglo brainrot.

>>17456775
I don’t know what you mean, modern anthropologists were totally willing to admit Roman prostitutes pitilessly strangled their infants to death.

>>17456762
anon... I....

>>17456896
That's nonsense, they left them in the woods to die of exposure, when they weren't aborted.

>>17456896
because abortion is absolutely accepted and uncontroversial today, so all they did was project the narrative into the past.

>>17456843
this desu

>>17456675
Yes. The social contract never ended, it's just been obfuscated by power elites that are scared of losing power.
He would also obliterate Bernie Sanders' claim that healthcare is a right, along with all the other privileges of national affluence that the left is trying to call 'rights' or even better 'basic human rights'.
My money says he wouldn't be a die-hard trump fan, or even a public one, but would've voted for him.

Read the man that completed Hobbesian thought.

>>17456675
There is nothing 'based' about denying the Divine Right of the Absolute Monarch.

>>17456937
>hobbes voting

>>17456775
>>17456877
>>17456898
>>17456906
>>17456908
The war against all is a silly concept, it doesn’t even exist amongst our closest cousins, chimps.
Not to mention that hunter gatherers and early agricultural societies were egalitarian. He was just projecting the power dynamics of feudalism into the past.

>>17456963
Kek you got me. If he was born in this time period he would most likely vote. If he was teleported from the 1500's he'd call us all politically masochistic degenerates

>>17456843
>>17456917
Don't act like the first is the most influential. Plato was influential, but Hobbes was topical AND influential.

Plato is idyllic, but Hobbes is realistic. Therein lies why Hobbes would have been more fundamentally influential.

>>17457023
Read the book first then post.

>>17457035
This isn't even up for debate. Hobbes is the foundation of the modern liberal political order. You're clearly arguing with an "auto-didact" plebe.

>>17457035
>the first
Not for being the first, but for being the greatest. You just got filtered.

>>17457051
Even Hobbes would contradict you.

>>17457051
Lol what shitty university you went to where they taught you that Hobbes is more influential than Plato?

>>17457057
>>17457064
>>17457092
>hurrrr BEST IS FIRSTEST

MOST INFLUENTIAL DOES NOT MEAN THE FIRST WRITER YOU FUCKING RETARDS

>>17457097
Sounds like you're upset you got filtered by the Greeks. The worse news is that if you got filtered by the Greeks you got filtered by philosophy in general. Sorry bud.

Hobbes does not understand altruism. He has no concept of selflessness in charity

>>17457023
>early agricultural societies were egalitarian
It's as if he was talking about man *before* any society.

>>17456675
He's not "based" just because he wanted an absolute monarchy. He still had the same line of thought that lead to liberalism.

>>17456690
>Hobbes is certainly the bedrock and foundation upon which all political philosophy is based on.
i wish this was true

holy shit! you people need to realize that hobbes was using homer for the basis of his thoughts

“Sirrah, hold your peace, and listen to better men than yourself. You are a coward and no soldier; you are nobody either in fight or council; we cannot all be kings; it is not well that there should be many masters; one man must be supreme—one king to whom the son of scheming Kronos has given the sceptre of sovereignty over you all.”-- homers iliad

>>17458624

It very much is the case. Others who came after, all built their premises and assumptions in opposition to him. The fact it is opposition does not mean he wasn't the inspiration, and it actually speaks to the weight of his ideas that the entirety of the doctrines of Monarchy had to be dismantled in order for people to consider to have surpassed him.

>>17458725
What I never considered until recently (actually, after reading Edward Gibbons) is was there ever really an issue with having a despot? I wish I'd realized it, but maybe Hobbes was right with the idea of a good despot. If we had a leader right now on the same level of competency as the Antonines, not only would we be better off but no one would want him to leave

>>17456937
how do you even exist you degenerate retard
>all the historical authors I try to associate myself with (despite not reading them) would have been just like me in modern day
DIE

>>17456940
>some nameless south italian shitskin
yeah right

>>17457023
you are literally retarded

>>17458686
>holy shit! you people need to realize that hobbes was using homer for the basis of his thoughts

>>17459092
come at me bro! where does hobbes not follow homer when it comes to monarchy, the cyclops people is a good example of a people not united under a monarchy

>>17457092
Centuries passed between Plato and the birth of modern political liberalism, Hobbes directly ushered it in. Thinking rationally is not intuitive, it must be learned.

>>17460559
>it must be
Agreed. This exactly.

>>17456675
I was never that impressed, the social contract is based on an assumed right by the majority to enforce it's will upon the rest and holds that you owe society anything when society is nothing more than a useful construct. If I am in the minority but have the ability to topple the system and reshape it for my own benefit I have the right. I owe nothing to the state or my people outside what I deem fair. Natural rights are a good concept because the majority will kill you if you don't provide basic things since you are no longer benefitting them. Neither Hoobes nor anyone else is qualified to determine who owes loyalty to what since the nation and government only exists in concept and is nothing if me and enough dupes say it's nothing.

>>17457415
no such thing

>>17456806
I'm pretty sure that quote is from Newton referring to Galileo et pals

>>17456675
That book is fucking fat how long did you take to finish it?

>>17456675
He deserves some kind of award for making the worst argument for absolute monarchy in the history of the west.
1. If there is no ruler, anarchy will ensue
2. we don't want to live in anarchy
3. therefore, we should have a ruler with absolute power!

>>17456697
But Locke is already retarded

>>17457023
I heard cave men were transgender too and they were the first inventors of gender studies and shoved rocks up their butts.

>>17459082
>you're right when you're popular
Have fun reading Locke and Smith faggot

>>17457023
>Not to mention that hunter gatherers and early agricultural societies were egalitarian.
Proofs?

>>17456675
No, his idea that the state is a man made entity has been a disaster. Maistre is a much better philosopher and blows the state of nature theorists out of the water.

>>17464247
There is none, all such claims are just baseless assertions which get increasingly shown up as such with every excavation that takes place, and yet for some inexplicable reason won't just die already.