/lit/ - Literature

Is there why YA authors have a reputation of being bad writers who couldn't cut it writing for an intelligent, adult audience? Isn't there a real art to great YA?

Is there a reason why YA authors have a reputation of being bad writers who couldn't cut it writing for an intelligent, adult audience? Isn't there a real art to great YA? I'm sure everyone here knows that YA authors are looked down upon in the industry as being non serious authors, why is that?

>>17435963
there are some amazing YA books. you undoubtedly know a bunch of them. there is also an inordinate amount of trash. big reason for that is diction level is lower, plots are simpler, the books are shorter. so, on average you, don't have to be as good a writer to make it with a YA book.

One of the most disturbing things about being a writer is seeing how clearly so many others have lost that spark and never get it back. how long do you have before it is gone? maybe it vanished before you even had a chance

Diversity is a minefield. I don't want to start anything. I just wonder what an LGBT person would say when they think they are reading an LGBT novel about two lesbian women but at the end of the book one of them is pregnant and they are left wondering which of the two woman is the father. That would be a plot twist. But wouldn’t that lessened the theme of the book?

>>17436075
If that "spark" of creativity and passion has permanently left someone, they were never writers to begin with, just someone who had a passing hobby.

>>17435923
I revised a section of my short story I got from feedback on in another thread. If anyone has any comments I'd love to hear them.

If you'd like, you can see the previous version here.
>>>17389467

I think I read recently that only 5% of published writers are of colour. Tell your story if you can tell it well, I just wish the publishing industry would make more of a concerted effort to publish people of colour’s writing

>>17436343
>of colour
Damn it's funny that you retards don't consider this racist. I'm sure if I call them colored you'll have a little freakout though.

>>17436343
Latino here. I'm gonna be very honest - I'm a voracious reader but I'd honestly have no interest in reading a black story told by a white person. It just doesn't feel right. You have no idea what it's like to live their lives, and you never truly will. So many black female authors are trying to tell their stories but are not given a chance to do so by publishers.

I have no doubt that you're coming from good faith. Just having enough empathy to write about the struggles of black women is a lot. But you also need to understand that it's time to let them tell their stories.

You don't want to become the next Jeanine Cummins.

Is there a risk of over-reading as a fiction writer?

Are there any principles I should follow when writing dialogue? So far I've been trying to keep in mind
>the characters' identities (who they are and what led them to that conversation)
>the nature of their relationship
>their respective objectives
>how those goals clash together and whether they enter into conflict
I don't know if this will be enough to keep me from being suddenly stumped. Any advice you could provide?

>>17436425
If you need to keep all of these things in mind while you're writing dialogue, you may just not know your characters enough, it should be smooth, not something you need to constrict and over filter before it leaves your head,

>>17436425
Contrived situations will lead to contrived dialogue. If two people really want something, but aren't in agreement, the dialogue will flow.

It's also okay to say the characters discussed something mundane, and not show everything that is said. Just tell the reader the need to know dialogue that is said.

>>17436443
this
just give them soul

i want to write a book and it just kind of surreally exists as both fantasy and normal not fantasy fiction, but idk i feel like no one will like it. so far the main character fights in a fantasy style world but then after he goes to his moms house and gets mad and cuts her coffee table in half with his sword, and then goes to starbucks. like. idk. is that just stupid? i feel like ive gone a bit insane and am having a hard time sticking within thematic constraints or whatever.

bump

>>17436464
Just write out what's in your head, don't get tied up right now, that's how you self-paralyze.

>>17436464
>>17436519
Another thing, you don't know what's stupid unless it's finished as a piece, and that concept might intrigue a-lot of people, just finish it.

>>17436464
that sounds like it could be cool. two ways I'd do it off the top of my head.
1. the mc is a schizophrenic don quixote figure. or 2. the mc is actually fighting real 'invisible' things and people only think he's crazy. he is crazy but its also real
either way I'd have him get his magical powers from malt liquor or maybe paint thinner.

>>17436343
Stop pasting comments from reddit.

>write my protagonist to become "stinky"
>no idea how to make him non-"stinky" now
How do I have him recover from this in a way that feels natural? Does he shower, buy new deodorant...? Both of those seem pretty cliched. Help.

Also having some trouble with the love interesting being "milky." She started taking prolactin supplements. If I want her to stop being "milky," should I just have her stop taking them?

Published my translation of Shakespeare’s King Lear into an experimental orthography a few days ago. Check it out here: https://www.amazon.com/%C9%99-Prot%C3%B3s-Typos-Logan-Perry-ebook/dp/B08V6KV54Y

Pic related was me when I wrote the damn thing

>>17436687
The fuck does being milky mean

>get connected with a former journalist and writer to read my novella
>get all nervous and anticipating a scathing review
>get a simple "it's good, go self-publish here" response

Can someone make me feel better about this thread

>>17435860

I hadn't even heard of these programs and reading those posts is wrecking my hope of making it as a novelist. Like what are we even doing here? I don't want to self publish on amazon or rr

>>17436863
Anon, you were never going to get published, anyways, no matter who opened the doors for you and held your hand. Yes, I imagine that some high-tier agents would look directly to the graduates of certain programs rather than accept any and all submissions from debut authors, and work shown to a CW group can earn you advances on a debut novel. Two things:
1. If your book doesn't earn back the advance they gave you, you are never ever again getting a generous deal from a publisher. A six-figure advance is not what you want when you're starting out.
2. If you write a book, and it's good, an agent will pick it up. It might not be one of the agents known for always picking bestsellers, but someone whose career it is to sort out the trash will pick you. Publishers know how well a novel in the genre you wrote will sell. If you outperform their expectations, your next advance will likely be generous, and they'll market your next book more generously, too.
Basically, if you don't believe in success based on the merit of your own work, and you think that some cabal of academics is the only way to be published, you were never going to make it until you fixed that attitude.

>>17436863
>I don't want to self publish on amazon
Why not? There are any number of genres and/or plot lines that traditional publishers will never touch with a ten foot pole. The problem with focusing entirely on going through traditional publishing is that you'll limit the scope of what you're writing from the get go.
Draft something first, edit edit edit, and then see if an agent is willing to take it on. Either they will or they won't. There are only upsides to having self publishing available as an option.

>>17436149
I've seen far too many talented writers who lost it to believe that. your pride will be your downfall

How do I fucking start writing a story?

>>17437165
one word at a time

>>17436687
first he uses cologne, which merely serves to cover the stink, but the stink remains. meter out the small steps of recovery he takes. as for milky-ness, keep her milky. readers like a milky love interest.

>>17436519
>>17436545
slight disagree. never go stupid. you can err on arbitrary or incongruous but not stupid.

>>17437210
already tried that, it ended up a mess

>>17437257
what do you enjoy writing?

>>17437157
I have to wonder at this. Why do writers peak?

I'm a brainlet, and my taste is trashy, but I've seen plenty of examples of writers falling apart, and what I notice overwhelmingly is with a series, the loss comes from characters the readers grew attached to falling by the wayside, not just because the cast is bloated, but because the author ceased to care about their growth or development. I think that's also why sequel series are usually so reviled. Even the main characters the readers were attached to get left behind, and every moment they're onscreen they're butchered by the author not giving a shit about their actions except how it effects the other characters.

>>17437268
mostly writers simply get old.

>>17437259
I honestly couldn't tell you. I know what I want to write about, which is pretty standard fantasy fare, but I always feel like I'm woefully unprepared and I don't even really know what I want my protagonists to do. It always feels so stilted and I barely understand them, and if I want them to improve and grow I don't know how to show it. I feel worthless.

One thing my dad told me with regards to writing is to find your audience. You've heard this advice before, I'm sure, but it doesn't mean what you think. I'm not saying imagine what demographic you'd want to buy or read your work, but more so what people, what culture you're writing for. It's almost as if you should write the creation myth for a race of people that haven't entered this world yet, though of course your work doesn't have to be explicitly this metaphysical in character. Those for whom you write will inform your style, which is above all the most important thing about a work. Style is the constant, although it is always changing. Look back on your earlier work: I can guarantee you you'll notice how you are more or less trying to write the same thing, and that the style with which you try to effectuate that thing is simply less pronounced than your current mode. Every writer has a single idea they will spend their whole lives writing, only it grows and mutates and morphs according to a whole host of factors outside of your control. Let style work with this imagined audience, and you'll reach a point where your style is effortless, second nature, and your audience will be reduced to a single person, who in the end was nothing but yourself.

>>17437279
correct me if i'm wrong, but it sounds like you don't like writing but you enjoy the idea of being a writer.. but you feel you could enjoy writing, only you're not smart enough to carry the intrigue and action on long enough to maintain a reader's interest. correct? i think what people do in this situation is hone their skill at short stories while examining and learning novel structures, so on their next big attempt at a novel (which is an excruciatingly long process for us mere mortals) they can get a little further with their newfound intuitions.

>>17436343
>the only place you will only be judged on merit
>can use a pen name
>no one ever sees your face

>still wants gimmes for being brown
screw off. seriously. screw off. why do i have to fill in what race i am when i apply for a job?

>>17437336
Yeah, that sounds about right. I'm fascinated by those big epics but I can't even begin to understand sitting down to write one of my own. I guess it's time to figure out what I can do in short story form.

>>17437336
not him but that's me

>>17437375
>>17437389
it's not stupid to be overwhelmed by the structure of these larger books, especially if you have high standards. they are complex and the even the study of them is difficult to navigate.

>>17437336
>sounds like you don't like writing but you enjoy the idea of being a writer
Is this really a thing? I can't imagine wanting to be the "idea" of a writer, most people around where I live don't really care about writing as a profession, or even frown upon it because it's not very financially viable as a career. I love writing, how do you love "the idea" of writing?

>>17437515
same way i'd love to have the accolades of being a famous actor without putting up with the filthy and disgusting personalities crawling all over hollywood

>>17437507
seeing you anons post about your novel progress is intimidating desu. i can't do that yet. i'm just still writing short stories to make sure i won't fuck up so much when i do begin my own big project. even then i struggle with not knowing what to write. i'm also reading. at least (i think) i'm on the right track.

>>17437515
just fantasies, probably

>>17437543
So the recognition of it. I guess it's just weird for me because, like I said, you don't really get that for writing where I live. Unless its like, poetry or something. But usually the artists are the ones who get all the renown
So what would be the writing equivalent of "putting up with the filthy and disgusting personalities"? Typing the words out? Tossing half-finished ideas?

>>17437591
not just the recognition, i think i gave a weak analogy. perhaps writing is like riding a bike downhill for you but not everybody's path is so easy and it's those moments of doubt and uncertainty of how to proceed that i would say are the "filthy and disgusting" parts of writing. maybe you're just built different but there have been times where i've about wanted to overturn the dinner table trying to make cohesion out of the disparate materials i have in mind.

>>17435963
Teenagers are not as picky so a lot of what is aimed towards them is not to the level one would assume to be "good writing".

>>17437688
I've been writing for as long as I can remember but I've only started trying to really get better and improve at it since a little over a year ago. Maybe you've been at this for longer than me and I just have yet to experience what you're feeling, but for me it's not like riding a bike in any one direction. It goes up and down and there are times where I'll wipeout and eat shit and it feels like nothing's gonna go right, but I get back on because not getting back on would feel really shitty and, inherently wrong I guess. Like it's the only thing worth doing to me even during the filthy and disgusting parts, the uncertainty and doubt

I genuinely wish the best for you anon, whether if you keep going with writing or try your hand at something else. It's gonna sound real phony and gay but I want everyone to feel fulfilled with whatever profession they choose to work at, I think they deserve it, and I think you do too

https://pastebin.com/DDzAYHqZ

https://www.strawpoll.me/42558359

>>17437785
blessed post

>>17437891
Wait, what exactly counts as young adult fiction?

>>17437785
this post made me feel, fuck you

only because I feel the exact same way. writing is the one thing I keep coming back to, even though it isn't profitable, popular, relaxing, or anything like something that you'd think a normal person would enjoy
it's fucking retarded is what it is, at least most people look at good art and say "nice" but with writing? great works get ignored for fucking years because muh subjective art uh you can't objectively tell what's good
hence why it's all so godamn tiresome

Know what fucks me up?
Drawing gets regular commissions as well as porn commissions but all writing commissions are is erotica.
When I was in highschool I seriously thought that maybe if I got good enough I could be writing for commissions one day like artists do with drawing commissions.

>>17437891
it can be great, but i don't write it
i have an idea for a YA novel though i think is pretty good

I've got a submission to a writers conference due tomorrow. Query letter, synopsis, first 20 pages of ms. The query came together well, but the synopsis is a pain in the ass. And I keep rewriting the first sentence of my ms a thousand times.

>>17437958
This is maybe the most retarded post in this thread. Do you think all those corpo medium articles appear out of thin air for free? Or do you expect to, without a fanbase personally invested in your style, get people to give you free fiction ideas AND pay you to flesh them out? If you're an established author with paypiggies, many of them would chomp at the bit to have even a little input in what you write, and the rest are happy just to pay you to do whatever you want. Stop worrying about it until you get published.

>>17438020
Not him but I really don't care about getting published—how else to make money as a writer?

>>17438032
you don't
>>17438020
"what, do you just expect them to give you drawing ideas AND pay you to draw them?"
I'm really just bitching about how art hoes have it easier in this specific time period, that's all.

>>17438043
Only if they live in some shithole like Chile or Brazil. An American making living wage drawing commissions needs to be industry-level good, anyways. If anything, I'd say writing gets you there a bit easier, as long as you're willing to put the work in.

>>17438134
you're dreaming pretty hard if you think writing creatively is a straight path at all. it's such luck bullshit that it makes the lottery look easier.

>>17438254
Neither of them are easy professions.

>>17436149
I agree with this.

>>17437515
>how do you love "the idea" of writing?
they want to dress pretentiously, have a bottle of liquor on their desk, and a pack of smokes. Want to get more of an idea? Look at threads that start something like, "What countries are /lit/", or those threads that talk about those portable writing keyboard things, they want to look the part but what they don't realize is that, you have to write to be a writer, and that takes work, and well, you're on 4chan.

>>17438032
>how else to make money as a writer
Quit writing. You don't get it.

>>17438581
The fuck do you mean by that?

>>17438032
>how else to make money as a writer?
write a cult bible or scam people

>>17438599
You're demeaning the art form by turning it into a hustle. Find other ways to make money for your x-box kid. You probably can't draw so you couldn't become a reddit "artist" and do "commissions" for your "homies on "Instagram", so you're trying your hand at writing.

>>17438652
No, I just want to be able to make money from doing something I enjoy if I can, because why not?

>>17438652
lmao

I started writing chapters for a pulp space sci-fi anthology I might try and publish someday. Just something for fun, let me know what you think if you end up reading.

Chapter 1: https://pastebin.com/dmYSLXKC
Chapter 2: https://pastebin.com/45MuYJAX

Who is your first book going to be dedicated to?

>>17438652
extreme ngmi energy

>>17439189
you <3

>>17439201
Then remember that my name is not spelled with a w it's just a simple v

>>17439200
Financially, sure. Artistically, I've already outlived you many times.

Got a poem I need critiqued... Can someone provide their email? I'll give them a dollar for their time of reading it over.

>>17439287
smelly narcissists are a dime a dozen on 4chan

>>17439337
ok.

>>17435923
God damn, I really love big anime titties

>someone made a thread with a not anime OP
>it was deleted
>now there's an anime thread again
what the fuck is going on?

>>17437958
>>17438043
I made about 100 dollars in two months of writing commissions, both erotica and poetry. It was not worth it and I already feel dirty for writing for an audience like that and destroying my artform.

>>17439392
Making new threads before the old one is anywhere near dead is called spamming.

>>17439392
A sign that you should accept the fact that an anime OP is the new norm now.

>>17439409
Noelposter does it every time, nobody cares, faggot

>>17439392
I don't know but I don't approve of it. It attracts, >>17439367, OP's should have pictures of writers. When are new threads made? 300?

>>17435923

always some degenerate anime titty shit everywhere.

>>17439411
Must be why /lit/ is full of trashy light novel degenerate refugees

>read book
>emulate author
>consciously and unconsciously
fugg this isn't bad right

861 words! First draft done!

>>17439466

This. I was thinking of making a comparison between the last /sffg/ thread OP pics and /wg/ OP pics to show how retarded these threads look in comparison, but the fact that the majority of people here support this faggotry made me give up and focus on writing. Proof reader gonna get my corrections today to give it another look, and then i’m resending it to the publisher. So fuck you anime loving plebs, suck on your imaginary tits while i get shit done

>>17439501
>whining about anime tittehs on 4chan

>>17440369
please keep complaining. this is a 4chan thread, it should look professional and represent the contents inside.

>>17440385
>>17440398

ngmi.

This site keeps narrowing the spectrum of people that come here with this kind of comments, then the same faggots wonder why they get shit/no feedback on things that require going outside on one’s cv to be believable. Top kek.

>>17439165
Try publishing this in royal road so you can get a following.

>>17439165
Not going to lie, anon, but this is the type of story I’ll buy in a heartbeat. Keep at it, if you can.

>>17436425
Learn from Looney Tunes. The characters can be put in any situation you can possibly think of and you know how they'll react. Make a character like those.

>>17438032
The secret is getting a job

>>17437268
I think some of it has to do with writing themselves into a box. Their taste evolves as they age and write, but they have found an audience and feel like they have to produce books "the same but different" in order to please their fans and remain relevant. Attached to that is fear that their publisher might drop them or lower advances if they flex their creative muscles and try something new. So instead of writing what they're passionate about, they grind out detective novel #12 or whatever. A classic example is Arthur Conan Doyle and Sherlock Holmes. He came to hate it, and no one cared about what he considered his great novel when it came out. They just wanted more Sherlock.

>>17440425
Interesting how faggots like you who keep telling people they're never going to be writers also never post writing or engage in any productive discussion.

>take a look on reddit
>every second thread is "how to write people of color", "how to write women", "can i make all my characters lgbtq+???", "can i write a black mc if i'm white?"
>some guy in comments says we aren't different and to write a white person and then turn his skin into a nigger
>they minus him to beyond
What the fuck is that shithole
Is this the absolute state of contemporary literature?

Alright, so in my book death is making David play the game of life and death. It's made of random other game pieces and I did actually have to make it a working game, so I'm proud I made that effort however David's soul gets put in colonel mustard so David's in the board game world while the working game happens around David. I've wrote two chapters one inside the game and one on what's happening in the real world. Both chapters are important, how do I fix this?

>>17440719
>Is this the absolute state of contemporary literature?
Basically yes. This is what happens when an artistic pursuit gets commodified and then the large corporate interests in the market decide to push politics to generate higher profits. We had had the internet in this state 30-40 years ago these would have all been christfag biblethumper questions instead of wokeism bullshit.
Just ignore these people fully and become financially independent so they can't influence you.

>>17440731
In the game world Colonel mustard is being chased by the riders of the apocalypse through a hedge maze filled with snakes and walkways but on the surface world David's passed out, Gary David's outdoor neighbour is kicking the table to try knock the dice and the other clues members' ghosts are trying to free Harley (some greaser who thinks hes a bike who got turned into a bike).

So the game world is intense, brutal and meant to be horrifying where as the surface world is more comedy. I know you guys will say mesh them but then they screw with each other.

>>17440719
To be fair that is pretty awful advice.
>make white man
>lol jk you're a nigger
That's like edgy creepypasta levels of making characters suffer for no reason.

>>17440719
Consider the diversity in publishing nonsense as a containment zone for talentless, undisciplined, zombie brain narcissists who want the glory of having their book published. They watch Star Wars and anything Netflix throws in front of their eyes. These people have no idea what they are doing. However, they can placate their New York betters by blindly following the diversity formula, thus demonstrating complete subservience. Because this propaganda is desired by the regime, the least terrible ones may be chosen now and then for vanity publication. The publisher fulfills their quota and the writer gets their glory—while also believing, of course, that writing about an immigrant toughing it out in racist America, or a trans kid being bullied and overcoming it, they are a good person and worthy of praise.

In any case, talented, disciplined writers who earn money for the publisher and produce compelling fiction can ignore all that shit.

>>17440731
I don't understand the question or issue.

>>17440758
>We had had the internet
If* we had had the internet

>>17440644
I constantly give advice and read what’s posted here. Though anime tits have made me come here less frequently. ESL makes my writing irrelevant to anyone except people who speak (read) my language, and i’m not so dumb as to post shit here that will make you faggots know who i am, in the off chance that i actually make it.
Tl; dr - you’re wrong.

>>17440834
>I constantly give advice
"ngmi" isn't advice, and complaining about anime on a 2channel clone is retarded.
>ESL makes my writing irrelevant to anyone
Oh yes you're such a special little snowflake.

>>17440765
>>17440803
I've got two chapters one in the game world and one out of it, they are happening at the same time. Isnt it a bit bulky to read a chapter through then the next chapter starting where that one started knowing how it's going to end. Like what am I meant to do with these two chapters, I guess I really should just make it into one but my god man! That's going to be a lot of moving paragraphs around and rewording.

>90% publishers in your country publish only fantasy shit/detective books
Bros...

>>17440852
So write a fantasy detective story.

>>17440843
You have no idea which posts in this thread are mine. Your arguments are only about my last post. In other words: you are irrelevant.

>>17440880
I bet I can point out a post that you've made in this thread.

>>17440897
Try.

>>17440897
Swear to god i’ll admit to it if you actually get it right.

>>17440907
this one >>17440834

>>17440897
Hes lying, if I were you I'd just move on with my life.

>>17440909
Lul, damn you got me! How bout one that isn’t referenced in this shit throwing contest?

>>17440909
Wrong. This is my post.
>>17440904
Would you like to try again? I'll give you 3 chances.

>>17440880
You're trying very hard to avoid addressing certain criticisms I made.
>you are irrelevant
What kind of insult/counter is this? You can't attack a "relevancy" that you know nothing about.

>>17440904
>>17440907
>phonefagging

>>17440917
So your criticism is that my complaining about anime tits as not being really inspirational for writing is retarded and that i’m a special snowflake cause i understand that writing in my second language is stupid, does that sum it up? Or did i miss something?

>>17440925
>completely ignores the first and primary point
Conspicuous.

>>17440914
nope, i think im satisfied with this victory

>>17440917
You are irrelevant cause you speak about things you have no way of knowing whether they are true or not. You have no idea whether i’ve posted stuff, engaged in constructive discussion and given reasonable advice. Hence, your argument is irrelevant. Hence, you are irrelevant.

>hurr durr the same argument goes for what i wrote too

Ye, but i just wanna hit you where it hurts.

>>17440948
>You have no idea whether i’ve posted stuff
You've said you didn't because you're ESL, but feel free to prove me wrong.
>engaged in constructive discussion
Again, feel free to provide examples.
>Hence, your argument is irrelevant
>Hence, you are irrelevant
What a great way to psychologically protect yourself from criticism while also convincing yourself that you're better than everyone else. I'm sure this isn't a core characteristic of any form of personality disorder at all.
>Ye, but i just wanna hit you where it hurts.
Why do you assume that you're hurting me with this?
The point still stands. If you're so ESL that your writing "can't be shown", and you don't provide any advice besides "hurr durr ngmi", what are you doing here? You're clearly not interested in literature or writing if all you do is discourage people.

>>17440481
So what's the solution?

>>17440975
I have posted stuff, but maybe a month ago, so i wouldn’t count it as relevant.

>engaged in constructive discussion

Like i said, i regularly post critique when i have something decent to contribute with. You wanna dig through the rest of the threads for my advice?

>psychologically protecting myself... personality disorder

Actually made me chuckle. Why the fuck would i try to translate shit and have it done half assedly?
I am interested in literature, just not isekai, depressed incel’s diaries/waifu fantasies. I’m here for the once in a thread actually good advice.

>>17441048
>I have posted stuff
Sure, and I have a Canadian girlfriend that I just can't show to my family because she's in Canada and her internet is bad. Sure.
>i regularly post critique
See above. Feel free to link some. Remember though, if it's not in this thread you might as well be making it up because nobody will call you out for impersonating them.
>Why the fuck would i try to translate shit and have it done half assedly?
When did I ever suggest that? You're projecting points I didn't make onto me. Another fun psychological protection tactic by the way.
>I am interested in literature, just not isekai, depressed incel’s diaries/waifu fantasies
Oh yes, I'm sure that everything in this thread you don't like falls into that category.
>I’m here for the once in a thread actually good advice
Here's some advice: If you spent half as long actually writing something as you just did shitposting with me you'd have reached your daily word quota by now.
>hurrdurr but ur shitposting too
As you like to say: "irrelevant".

>doesn't describe the boobs in details
ngmi

>>17441084
i just dont want people to get the wrong idea, you know

>>17441084
>I gazed upon her naked breasts as she slept
>Damn they were fine, a real pair of mountains with a perfect valley.
>You know, a real set of gazongas.
>I mean a beautiful pair of googahoogas.
>Some perfect balooganahooganas.
>Some proper shaboobagahogazoos.

>>17441081
I can already tell you’re all worked up about this.

>daily word quota

Imagine actually counting words every day. Also, i’m on the commute on my phone. Just got off work. So thanks for the entertainment, this was great! I’m almost home now so cya another time.

Dont let that vein in your forehead pop. Jerk off, it lowers blood pressure.

>>17441100
>I can already tell you’re all worked up about this.
>Dont let that vein in your forehead pop. Jerk off, it lowers blood pressure.
Classic projection. I'm just shitposting in between doing some work at my actual job.
>I’m almost home now so cya another time
As expected you leave the thread when you're getting too toasted. Many such cases. Sad.
>he doesn't set up consistent and regular goals for himself
ngmi

>>17437300
please post more wisdom posts. Also, can you offer some advice pls.

O! I have neither breathed nor finished rasping:
My heart is both so hot and blue with you
And longs for you, my lungs do loathe and ash
Themselves for you; I know not what to do.
The world is weary, let them be weary,
As salt and water 'cross the breezed pacific,
Let them be weary, forward our affair
Across the earth; I don't know what to think.
But let the worldly world proclaim their song,
The singing and dancing and foolish jokes,
Let havoc and rain upon my burning tongue
Be my reason for hanging by a choke.
If time would kindly turn its hand for me,
That might instead I never felt the need.

>r8 my scribble

At dusk, a figure stole into the husk of a burned building, climbed up the blackened stairs and found the horizon already bleeding with night. The breeze licked at the cut from the razor wire. Far below, the traffic groaned and squealed like distant pigs. He hung his head. His toes were trembling on the precipice. Cars crawled like sugar ants. The dotted line flowed hypnotically, then gradually began to tilt and spin as everything else was washed away from existence. It twirled dizzyingly and the dots grew larger and larger. His snout felt heat but his cheeks were whipped by cold. The fingers of unconsciousness crept up from his neck.

Suddenly he woke with a start and in a single moment the breeze and honks and birdsong and sharp gravel made themselves more real to him than ever before. But under the sun’s dying warmth and shivering from sweat, everything seemed to be draped in a thin veil of dreams, ready to fade away at the faintest touch. It was then that Cenario knew the world was ending.

>>17441093
> If I were a kid I would suck them dry. Excuses.

>>17441043
1. Only publish what you love, don't follow trends, and don't cater to niches. That way you don't get pigeonholed. A consequence is that you can't use common tropes or appeal to specific fan groups, thus also making it more difficult for publishers to market. It requires more ingenuity and skill.
2. Embrace pulpy adventure stories (or whatever you're writing), have fun, don't take it too seriously (Dresden Files), and make the best of it. Embrace writing for fans of the genre. A consequence is that it will eventually become a bit of a grind and fans are more loyal to the genre than to you specifically (you are replaceable). It's difficult for your book to make an impact and stand out from the other novels published in your genre.

>>17441447
You could always try writing a different genre under a different pen name.

How do I know what I want to write?

>>17441536
take a prompt and twist it, like what i'm about to do

>>17441541
Post an example prompt, please.

As the sun fell over the horizon Gary sat dangling his legs out the window of the captains quarters watching it set and worrying about David when ever his mind to forget it would wander into trying to remember what day it was or what happened, madness was taking its toll on Gary looking over the edge of the ship as a dolphin popped out from the ships trail.

“You like that you little bitch?!” the dolphin squeaked with laughter kicking a fish into Gary's face. “What the fuck?!” Gary spat at the water in disgust as the fish fell back with it. “Hey you shut the fuck up, up there!” the dolphin hit the fish back up as Gary caught it “Hey keep me up here, let me die.” the fish blubbed in garys hands, Gary dropped the fish in fright “Where are my wishes!?” The dolphin smacked the fish against the back of the ship before the fish could hit the sea again the dolphin smacked the fish back up behind Gary in a bucket of some sea water. “please kill me.” the fish pleaded leaping about in the small puddle of water. “don't kill him! that little shit owes me three wishes!” The dolphin basked out the water spraying sea water at Gary through its blowhole, Gary quickly caught it in the bucket allowing the fish to breath more comfortably. “You fuck with me! I will fucking fuck you! I will fucking fuck all of yous!” The dolphin cried and threw water at the window as Gary closed it.

>>17441577
Gary moved a bunch of papers from the captains table and put them down on the floor then placed the bucket down on the newly made space. “What the hell was that?” Gary asked, going back to the window to see the dolphin gone and the stars start to burn their way through a darkening sky. He sealed the flaps of the windows and lit the candles around the table, kneeling on a seat over the fish. “He’ll be back.” The fish replied as the door slammed open. “Gary! We need you looking out for a line of the dimmest stars! Mummy is going crazy out there.” he thumbed back the way he came from to the noise of the mummy yelling in confusion smacking at its ears with its hands.
The water in the bucket flicked up as the fish sank down in fear. “What's that? The colonel aimed his winchester at the bucket and blew a hole through its side causing most of the water to pour out all over the table and onto the paperwork Gary put on the floor. “Well.. it was a bucket of water, and I was keeping a lookout, but a dolphin came talking smack, so I closed the window and assumed I could take a break. You then came in, started yelling and shot the bucket.. So breaks ruined I guess.” Gary sighed and moved the bucket under the table as Colonel barged passed Gary opening the window back up and aiming his Winchester at the darkness. “Storms a brewing, I can feel it. The hairs on my arms are standing up, look at that.” The colonel lowered his rifle and showed Gary the grey hairs that stood on his arm. “You wanna talk about the war?” The colonel asked walking over to the drinks cabinet and pouring a brimming glass of rum and placing it down on the table in front of Gary. The colonel sat next to it drinking from the bottle with Gary staring at him sitting himself down in his chair mentally preparing for a long boring war story.

>>17441584
“See desert rats, that's what they called us, you know why they called us desert rats?” The colonel's breath rang out the stench of rum, Gary held his breath and watched the fish jump about the wooden floor of the bucket. “What was that?” The colonel asked. “Rats, because of your smell and desert because of your uniform?” Gary asked, wrapping his legs around the bucket bringing it closer to him. The colonel paused for a moment and then looked at his uniform and grabbed at the chest to smell it. “Oh no no” he laughed “it was because” taking another swig from the bottle “it was because our Major-General at the time Sir Percy Hobart, Hobo we called him. He was ordered to combine his “funny” armoured divisions with my “desert rat” division and his step brother.” the colonel applying finger commas as he wavered and took another drink and looked at the flame of the candle next to the window wavering deep in his thoughts.

“At Least I get to leave the story.” The fish gargled into unconsciousness. Gary slyly unzipped his trousers, placed his leg at the top of the bucket and angled himself in such a way where he could urinate down his leg and into the bucket. “Where was I?” The colonel shook back from his thoughts.

>>17441592
“Monty! Montgomery's 7th armoured division, The HQ wanted a field marshall to come up with a plan to take Germany and Hobo was too old at that point of the war so he was to choose between me and Monty. My men were trained in the rugby tackle, we were so good at it they stopped giving us ammo and guns. We would charge at our opponents gloriously with majestic tackles and steal their weapons and ammo. His brother “the spartan general” they called him, there's nothing spartan like in slow decision making, he was a fluke and his smile would burn right through you if you weren't on the same page.” Gary shook himself and sat back up in his chair zipping himself back up, trying to figure out what he missed.

”we would clear the first line and take out all the anti tank weapons so he could charge his tanks right through the enemy. I thought we were going for Rommel, I thought this was an ideological war but no, this was a religious war. Rommel was sent to get the Holy Grail and whoever stopped him was to become field marshal. When I saw old hobo’s funny tanks I had my doubts we were on the right side, they were painted up like clowns, armed with flame throwers and would just explode themselves. I'm still haunted by the laughing of the men inside, I'm still haunted by the laughing of the men they burned.” Gary started to really listen. “What happened?” The fish asked, leaning out the bucket. The colonel turned to Gary “When The war was over i took to researching where these tanks came from and they were Hobo by design but paid for by the city of london and made in the factories of wall street. I watched my country change from a hardworking and principled society to a sold out husk of its former self, working towards the revelation the Nazis discovered and quickly worked towards destroying.” The colonel stood up, drinking the last dregs of the bottle and slamming it back down on the table as he staggered where he stood.

>>17441536
It keeps bugging you when you try to sleep or when you're taking a walk in the woods.

>>17441600
“Our society might have been free but free to degenerate, free to become decadent, free to choose the easy way.” the colonel began to stagger towards the bed “In the end Hobos armies where to be hidden to protect the grail, his brother to be field marshal and me to be discarded in the deserts till I was told of a game that could open doors for you, I must of opened that door in 1957, my spirit spent 76 years with similar minds and then the door takes me to now.. That's quite a door to step through, quite an opportunity. Any way it was that fish you pissed back to health that reminded me of that story.” the colonel then collapsed face first onto the bed causing it to collapse from his weight.

>This is first draft of chapter 4 btw

>>17441608
“Alright i'm going to go out and look for some dim stars.” Gary stood up from his chair with the glass before him and sniffed at it and whined his face. “You're not leaving me with that psycho plus I know the place you guys are looking for, the city of impossible shape, beneath the dimmest of stars.” the fish replied. “Sweet but I aint carrying a bucket around the ship especially with that yeti out there, he’ll definitely try to eat you. Wait, I might have an idea.” Gary then walked towards the changing quarters pushing through all the uniforms to get to the back of them and pulled out an old diving uniform and walked back slamming the uniform down on the table causing the colonel to snore and turn over.

“Can you operate one of these things?” Gary whispered to the fish. “Do you wish I could?” the fish asked back. “I mean yeah, I guess.” Gary answered back confused. “No no, say it, say you wish I could operate this.” Gary then sighed “Alright, I wish you could operate this.” the uniform then stood up and grabbed the bucket and opened the window. “I’ll be back, you try to find me a way back up.” the old diving uniform then fell backwards out the window and into the ocean that jumped up after it. Gary receiled the windows, picked up his captain's coat from his chair and made his way out of the captains quarters putting his arms through the runs and looking up at Mummy searching the sky, screaming and smacking at its ears.
> all of these are what I wrote today

>>17441564
there are loads in the flash thread >>17428010

Is it cringe to use words from other languages to sound more mysterious and fantastical?
Like calling a library a 'Scientia Domus' or something cringe like that?

>>17441747
Yes, you yourself said it was cringe you already know it is.

How much of YA is just nailing continuity and progression? Like 99%? That seems to me, after reading so much of it, what they all have in common, writing is often mediocre, but they all do a really good job at continuity, like you're always on the same exact rail.

>>17439972
Nah it always was.

>>17441968
Yep. You can even repeat yourself a lot to remind people of the railroad they're on. Sanderson does this constantly, I think, and I know Rowling did too. Really, all good stories are on a continuous rail, but with YA it's more evident because the dressings are torn down and authors are free to repeat themselves since kids don't give a shit.

>>17440462
I actually lied, it is independently published and you can buy it here: gravitas-zine.com

There is a storm coming. Once unleashed upon the public, my novel will destroy YA fiction and create it anew.

>>17442512
Give us the synopsis senpai

>>17442512
>storm
don't you mean whirlwind inside of my head

>>17442512
control + f and remove these words Abyss + Monolith + Crimson + Like

>>17435923
>sat down to write
>realised I didn't have anything to say and all that was written were vague descriptions
>didn't come close to capturing the feeling I was trying to evoke
I'm not going to make it am I?

>>17442548
It's impossible to write a book without use "like". A short story maybe, but not, like, an entire book or anything.

>>17442561
You're going to make it. You just have to practice transplanting the scenes in your head, to a piece of paper or word document. Do this for me, paint a picture in your mind, and then write it out, in all the overbearing detail you possibly can. Keep on doing this, until you nail it. This isn't something you should do when you're writing novels, but learning the ability to write out what's in your head is a critical ability.

>>17442566
I am going to write a YA novel that doesn't use "like"

>>17442606
well bully for you

>>17442606
Not even in dialogue? That would be like writing a book without the letter E. Good luck!

can someone recommend me a brief piece of art criticism that they value and a short explanation in why you like it

i need stimulation

>>17441577
>>17441584
>>17441592
>>17441600
>>17441608
>>17441616

Seriously though can I get advice, this is the first book I've written so far I'm on chapter 5. Is there hope? I want to write a comedy epic but fear that maybe too ballsy with this being my first book. I think it's good that my book does keep growing however I worry that it maybe too much comedy and random things that it may not be going any where, I'm a 5th of the way in and I have an idea and the idea has been established I just dont know how long it will take getting there, I may require many books. Is this a bad thing? Like I have no idea what I am doing but I do have heart in what I'm doing. I'll give me that.

>>17442626
of course not. i don't think my characters would speak that way. i will find a more aesthetic alternative.

>>17435923
I finished my first draft for an adult adventure novel and its only 9k words. Should I go back and throw more shit at it before I try to move onto 2nd draft? Fuck I feel like its so shitty. Thanks.

>>17442603
Not him, but... There's nothing there. I realized that what I have in my head really is nothing but vague impressions.

>>17442606
>>17442705
I await your proof, pseud.

>>17442653
Fenimore Cooper's Literary Offenses, by Mark Twain
http://xroads.virginia.edu/~Hyper/HNS/Indians/offense.html
because its funny

>>17442774
>an adult adventure novel
>its only 9k words
That's not even a novel fit for a first grader. An adult adventure novel should be 100k+.

>>17442827
i will return

is this the light novel authors general

>>17442875
>http://xroads.virginia.edu/~Hyper/HNS/Indians/offense.html
ty

I finally wrote something for the first time in 4 months. Feedback would be wonderful.

https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/36209/burgerpunk-pizza-time/chapter/624552/13-snacks-at-the-gas-station

>>17442934
>The little bag with a smiley face on it and a ‘Thank you’ and ‘Have a nice day’ wasn’t a particularly endearing venture,

Was only thing i had to reread to understand, otherwise i really liked it and where it was going. nowhere, of course Good work, anon!

>>17442970
Yeah, I might need a better descriptor there. But thanks! I appreciate the feedback. I'm in the middle of reading Dubliners and I wanted to channel that going nowhere death spiral of mundane life.

>>17442876
I will return when I have increased my pile of shit to an acceptable stack.

>>17443008
with a word count that low you're probably better off treating it like a long short story. If you don't have 100,000 words worth of ideas you probably shouldn't force yourself to write that much.

>>17443016
I think my issue is that I actually like outlining. I just need to just puke my ideas out like everyone keeps saying.

How do I get my prose to flow more naturally? Is there anything in particular I should practice to make it feel less awkward?

>>17443564
I always just write as though I'm narrating the event to a person who's listening. Most people aren't going to notice the kind of things people nitpick about here. So long as you're not overusing words, fragmenting sentences, or making general grammatical errors the average reader won't really care. However I do find that getting stuck mid-paragraph can be pretty damaging to the flow of my writing so maybe try rewriting each paragraph that you get stuck on from the beginning once you figure out what you wanted to say.

What is really the separation between YA fiction and actual novels?
Is it that real novels explore the characters and themes more whereas YA fiction merely skims the surface and is much more focused on the plot rather than a thematic exploration.

>>17443700
>What is really the separation between YA fiction and actual novels?
What demographic the publisher says they are.

>>17443715
>take the classics in the public domain
>rebrand them as YA with new covers and sexy character art
>profit

What is stopping them from doing this?

Been in a funk since Christmas and writing nothing at all. Finally set the timer for a pomodoro session again a few days ago and it's been working. I'm actually sleeping better now that I'm producing again. When I'm stuck, just 25 minute timer and "fuck it, just write" usually works for me.

>>17443755
Bloodtide/bloodsong did this. And a few others I think.

Alright, who writes fanfiction?
Confess.
https://www.strawpoll.me/42563991

>>17442561
This is literally step 1 in becoming a writer. Learning to turn those cool ideas in your head into something that approximates them on paper. Characters you care about - if you don't nobody will. Conflict - everyone wants something even if it's just a glass of water, and they have to struggle for it. The big picture isn't your story - you have to make it personal.

>need an outline to write, without it I have no sense of direction or pacing for a story
>filling out an outline adds more time for doubt to sink in and get me to scrap the story like a pussy
Very nice

>>17443841
Tell me what ur story is about in a sentence anon.

>>17444023
A man gets sent to Hell, and is given a chance to redeem himself in a secret mission given to him by an angel to track down and destroy the first AI to become ensouled and then damned.

>>17444023
A late-night bartender tries to convince a girl on the run from killing her boyfriend into turning herself in

>>17443841
Wait, when the fuck did I write this post?

>>17444042
That seems neat. What's your hell like? What's your world building process for that like?
>>17444067
I've been trying to write a book that takes place at a bar. Neat stuff. How do you get around the fact that its always in the same place?
>>17444295
02/02/21(Tue)17:35:39

>>17444336
The idea right now is that the bartender gets reminded of his daughter, who he's estranged with, the longer he talks with the girl. So we spend more time in the guy's head and his dialogue with the bar girl than we do the environment, and there's a ticking clock element of the cops possibly being on their way already

>>17444389
Oh that sounds interesting. Like my dinner with Andre but with some thriller elements. Mine was going to be about all the punk kids and students hanging out at a show throughout a night and it jumps around to all the people that go in and out over one night. So the drunk law students getting into squabbles with the guy that works at a laundromat who's helping the band load in that's fucking the bartender. etc. The causal chain type deal and inner connected nature of being a scene like that. I miss those days of my life.

>>17441248
Dark, thoughful, and descriptive. I like it!

>>17441616
Massively entertaining. Very good, anon.

>>17444540
cheers matey thanks for reading

>>17440006
if you aren't doing it consciously you'll still be doing it unconsciously.
better to be self aware about it.

I've reached a real roadblock with my writing. I think it's the last hurdle before I write imminently publishable fiction (both short stories and novels). I get tons of encouraging feedback from lit mags and agents, but I haven't sealed the deal for five years.
I can't create good characters for shit. I can write plots rife with conflict and resolution. I can spin off beautiful prose without effort. But I can't fucking create a memorable character.

Worse yet, I feel completely incapable of learning. No matter how much I read, how many lectures I listen to, how many books I study on the topic, I don't feel myself getting any better. At the root, I feel as though I'm only able to write aspects of myself--and I am utterly uninteresting. In other cases, my characters exist only as ideological placeholders, talking heads at the mercy of my plot. My readers describe them as "cardboard." I think it's ultimately a product of my narcissism, or an underlying sociopathy that keeps me from empathizing with other people (and therefore from being able to "empathize" with a character as a "real" human being). I would appreciate any advice or recommendations.

>>17445468
You have it the wrong way around. The story should be about the characters, not the plot. The plot is an excuse for the character to do interesting things, show emotion, change, be daring, etc.

>>17445468
Why not embrace it? If you're really a sociopath, why not write about a sociopath? Then the cardboard characters become intentional. Add a light splash of color to make it feel like there's more to them than you're revealing, and you have it made.

(can y’all tell me how I’m doing playing with postmodernism style prose & humor please?)
The cafeteria beamed in fluorescent lighting. It luminated the squeaky clean floors, reflective to the point that Candide swore if he squinted, he would see his reflection. Impressed with his own mop job, he smiled at this thought and then imagined the floor becoming a pool of water which he could fix his appearance in by watching his reflection. Then he wondered if he did not look well today considering his empathic palette changes earlier. If perhaps his skin had been drying faster from the embarrassment, and now his skin would look chapped. Emotionally induced sweltering of Ampholites like himself, took the form in halt to mucus secretion. The thought of this alone turned his mouth dry. Regardless of if he had actually been chapped or not when he first gazed onto the floor, Candide placeboed itchy epidermis right there and then. He looked up across the aisle to Cible, who was pulling out fold out tables with Sumac for the upcoming lunch.
“Hey, Cible? Do you have your spritzer on you?” He inquired.
Cible looked across the room, confused.
“What?”
Candide raised his voice, “I was wondering if you have your spritzer on you!”
Cible nodded, “Yes, I told Splinter to lay off me. I don’t even know how he knew that I know that Kimber and him split, but he’s been blowing up my telecom since this-“
“DO YOU HAVE YOUR SPRITZER?!”
“Oh,” Cible took a second to rethink, “yeah, why?”
“Can I use it? I left mine on Ms. Lady.”
“What?!”
“Oh for the love of Gods,” Sumac interrupted, “Go over there and talk to him.”

>>17445488
I've obviously read this advice several times before. It's making the character that's the issue.
Does one start with the characters, or can you develop them into an existing plot idea?
If the former: do you literally just draft a character with an interesting backstory, appearance, and traits, and then pat him on the back and send him on his way through the world?
If the latter (which I do): What makes them memorable? What makes the reader care?
>>17445580
I don't think I am actually a sociopath. Rather, I think I've been cut off from substantial human contact for so long that I don't really "know" anyone anymore. I suppose the fact that this makes me immensely sad and lonely disqualifies me from sociopathy, but it might explain why I can't figure out what makes a character interesting or worth investing in. Other people might be "cardboard" in my head not because I actually believe human beings are cardboard and two-dimensional, but because I've lost my conception of them as multi-dimensional. Maybe this, itself, would make a good story, but I feel like it's so overdone.

>>17445640
>Maybe this, itself, would make a good story, but I feel like it's so overdone.
Yeah, but you'd have something that's kinda interesting and would help make up for the fundamental flaw in your story. That's good enough, right?

>>17445488
This is objectively untrue
>>17445468
Horror as a genre tends to use plot as a main character. Characters in many types of stories are only trivial to the overarching story. Write a story that is about the event itself more than the characters. Not all stories have to be character driven. This is going to seem meme as fuck but skip to 59:00 where these two talk about this.
https://youtu.be/NczXHd0vooc
That, or get a writing partner.

>>17445468
1. Reject reality, embrace absurdism. American Psycho is one of my favorite novels and it's about a pretty "flat" character.
2. You're probably not actually a sociopath. Everyone is narcissistic.
3. Boring is marketable. People are interested in characters that related to them, and everyone feels boring in the same ways you do. Dig out bits and pieces of your angst and give them to your characters and try to figure out what that character thinks would make them happy. Then figure out why they think that would make them happy. After that, you can write a plot that gives them what they want, and you can show how they react. I've recommended it for like 3 threads in a row, but Story Genius has fantastic methods for developing characters.

>>17437958
I was able to quit my wageslave fast food job and do smut commissions from home. I spend 2-3 hours tops a day writing smut between browsing the net, listening to podcasts, and playing video games. The price varies, but currently I can earn from $50 to $35 for a single 2k word count. The average commission is 6k-8k and I never write more than 2k. It's not a lot of money, but I can pay the rent and buy groceries, and have some money left over.

Smut is easier to write than actual fiction, and the people who want it written aren't too strict with what they want. Overall if I have to have a dayjob then sitting on my butt and writing smut is okay with me.

I'd say the main difference between me and the average writer is I can get the 2k words done (mostly) on time. Finishing stories isn't hard for me anymore, so no battling writer's block. Only time things get tricky are when the client doesn't give a clear idea of what they want.

Also I don't write fan fiction smut because it makes it x100 harder trying to write a faithful smut story.

>>17445696
how often can you recycle stories you've already written or are your clients essentially a handful of whales which doesn't really let you do that

>>17445776
I wouldn't recycle a story, commissions don't really work that way. My clients are too specific (even if they only give a paragraph) of with what they want.

I had one where a guy is turned into a blow up doll. Another one where a woman has a fifty shades of grey style encounter with a dom billionaire. Another where a dorky guy with a huge cock fucks his childhood crush.

The base concepts can't really be rehashed. I worry less about being cliche if its a new client though. I've had one client for months now so I have to change things up to keep it fresh, which is fun in its own way.

I finally got started on my YA fantasy novel today. I'm 2600 words in and I like it, so far. YA is pretty comfy. Anyone want to check out the first chapter tonight, and let me know if it seems age-appropriate?

https://pastebin.com/1BQvfssR

>>17445862
Honestly, YA and Age appropriate has always been loose. Throne of glass is a YA and has some things that other YA don’t have. As for the story, anon, it’s decent, keep working on it.

>>17445960
Thanks friend. Specifically, I'm trying to write for kids about 10 years old. If older ones enjoy it, that's fine. I'm only a little worried that there's not going to be enough whimsy for them in these early chapters, but I figure I can remedy that with some tonal changes on a second pass.

>>17445998
>I'm trying to write for kids about 10 years old
Sad to say but if you want to do that your best bet isn't a novel but a web serial. I'd still say write the novel though, just post it like a web serial. Make sure it's accessible on phones and do some market research to see which apps are most popular with kids these days.

>>17435923
I wrote 20,000 words in the last 3 weeks. 65,000 total now. Just 120,000 more to go

>>17446079
What's your drafting process look like?

>>17446063
Why is that? My goal is to publish this and make some money from it. I do not think that a serial would stand much of a chance of making any money, if middle schoolers are the target demographic. I understand that books don't move like they used to, but parents do still buy them when advertisements tell them to.

>>17446079
Good going anon!

>>17446084
This is the first novel I’ve ever written, so I’m sort of making it up as I go along. I have two files, one where I dump specific scenes that I come up with, and in my “main line” I’ve been writing 1,000 every night. Occasionally I get to those parts I’ve already written and dump them in. I actually have 80,000 total counting the second file with random ideas and scenes. I’ve never been asked about my drafting process before so forgive me if I didn’t answer your question.

>>17446109
Pretty sure adults would also read it, so there's a chance some will donate you a small pittance.

>>17446109
>Why is that?
Kids don't read books except in school. Shit, they don't even watch TV. The primary info access point they have is a phone or tablet.
>I understand that books don't move like they used to, but parents do still buy them when advertisements tell them to
Barely, and the kids don't ask for them because they read shit online.
t. Uncle to a kid in that age range

>>17446120
That's interesting, are you just finding that all the words are flowing out of you? What parts of the process, may it be creatively or structurally, are giving you the most issues?

>>17446132
I think it probably depends a bit on where you are. Plus, published books are available on the phone via the Kindle app and such, which come preinstalled on lots of Androids. I think YA has always been prone to fads (because kids) and either a book will spread like wildfire or have very mild success - I think that a Hunger Games book last year outsold everything else in YA fiction combined or something. There just hasn't been a new fad in a few years. I'm not looking to make millions, but if a publisher cuts me a check and they sell enough to make it back and ask me for another, I'll be more than happy. But all in all, I'm focused on writing the material first, and I will worry about the marketing when I get there.

I posted a short piece of writing in this thread and an anon told me that it was 'overwritten, and sounded like something out of the 19th century.'

Does anyone have recommendations for modern authors that I should read to fix this?

>>17446194
Either way make sure you're going for digital over physical. If you get a publisher though don't even worry they'll handle it.

>>17446214
But why would you want to neuter your voice like that? If it can still be read then you just have a particular audience.

>>17446214
What are you writing so we can have context on what you want to offer authors?

>>17446214
Just start reading newly published work. Everyone who wants to get published should do that regularly.

>>17446214
Elmore Leonard

>>17446219
Oh yes, certainly, I have no intention of self-publishing, really. I definitely think physical sales for YA are in the toilet right now with so many schools shutdown, so I imagine publishers are generally focused on delivering physical.

>>17446214
Aside from any author suggestions you get, you might want to try reading suspect sections of your work out loud. When people say it's overwritten, I think they tend to mean that they can't imagine someone saying those things verbally without sounding goofy. If you can't read it without sounding like a tryhard, you're probably trying too hard to make that part pretty.

>>17446214
You're probably overloading detail.

>>17446245
*on delivering digital

>>17446214
Literally any random fiction that isn't some high-class shit. Just write how you speak. There's no need to try to make every paragraph an art piece on its own unless you're trying to write a book full of poetry or something. Use clear, concise language to communicate the story, only delving into metaphor/allegory when it's thematically appropriate or absolutely necessary.

>>17446249
>>17446252
>Up the jagged spine of rough-hewn steps they struggled, a world’s war chief and his retinue reduced to crawling. Horns hewn of bone sounded in the deep, and the rumblings of drums mingled with the rhythm of the X’shaal’s chants as their king and his kin assailed the climb toward God. In the crepuscular haze of the cavern’s night, candles mounted on sigil-inscribed monoliths the height of towers marked the shame of past failures; shadows of men frozen on their igneous surface, but lacking the bodies to cast them. Here was a domain of the Unseen, chthonic spirits of spite and malice that stole those weak enough to be distracted from the Light Above. Its psychic inferno seared into his mind, the torture of Its glory threatening forgetfulness of the Destiny accorded, but Saothinax would not be stolen. His blood was mingled with Heaven’s, his soul’s pedigree above the loathsome shadow-horrors lingering in the dark - their ilk a bastard race, inferior imitations of true divinity. The Angels sharing his nature awaited, like-to-like, it was not in his blood to fail.

Does it really read over-detailed?

>>17446265
>Up the jagged spine of rough-hewn steps they struggled, a world’s war chief and his retinue reduced to crawling.
Bro read this out loud and tell me you don't sound like you're trying to flex an English degree.

>>17446188
>are you just finding that all the words are flowing out of you?
Yes, maybe it’s because I was a musician before, but I have an internal meter for rhythm, not like I’m counting syllables but I write everything in the same sort of dada dada dada, with some words used as accents, and everything else is just sort of letting it flow out (sort of like jamming on an instrument). As long as I have the themes and plot in mind, which I made a very basic but definite plan for, everything else is just bullshitting as i go along basically. There are certain parts when I just ass pull an idea to fill words for the day, but then later, thousands of words later it connects with another idea, so I find it’s important to not overthink and trust everything that I do as I write (that takes a lot of courage).
>What parts of the process, may it be creatively or structurally, are giving you the most issues?
At first for me was just the self doubt, and I had to drag myself kicking and screaming to write. I can’t exaggerate this enough, every day I do not want to write, at all, I’m extremely lazy. But I still force myself to, don’t ask me why. I think you need to have blind faith in what you’re doing first, and then slowly, the picture starts to unfold. It’s almost like your subconscious knows more than you do, so you have to trust yourself and just do it. I mean, there’s a million negative thoughts that can weigh us down

>>17446265
Oh god man, that was you? That's what you're referring to? Yes, it's absolutely detailed. Look at it this way, not everything needs an attachment, not everything needs to be "elevated" - be efficient, paint the picture and tell a story, not write a travel brochure where you're trying to sell the grooves on a rock. It reads like you're peacocking in an effort to mimic good writing, that's not good writing- what you're doing is a phase that every decent writer went through, and it's conflating quality writing with attachments and descriptions. Good writing paints a vivid picture when it's needed, they create an atmosphere within one line, description is fine - it's your job to create the effect elegantly.

>>17446265
>In the crepuscular haze of the cavern’s night, candles mounted on sigil-inscribed monoliths the height of towers marked the shame of past failures; shadows of men frozen on their igneous surface, but lacking the bodies to cast them.
About the only way this wouldn't sound like someone trying too hard is if it was read by the narrator of Darkest Dungeon.

>>17446265
>Does it really read over-detailed?
Not to me, but that’s my taste. People are plebs, anon. Do what you like.

>>17446295
>>17446265
Just one more thing, you're writing in a way that assumes your reader is mentally retarded, you're giving them everything and shoving it down their throats. What you can do, as you improve, is write in a way that implies the details you're slamming in their faces. What would the steps being old and eroded imply? That's a very basic step, but you should think about writing in a way that doesn't yell it in a megaphone.

>>17446265
Question for you, does it feel natural to you to write this way? Could you write a complete story, or heck, novel, in this style?
If the answer is no then I would say yes, you're over-detailing and overthinking. I like it but I just have a picture of you spending hours laboring over this one paragraph and I think you might find it hard to produce anything meaningful like that.
But if writing like this comes naturally to you then I say go for it. It is a lot, it is purple, but personally I think there is a place for purple and there are people who would like it. I enjoyed reading it even though it is a lot.

>>17446342
It's nothing to do with being a "pleb" it's just flat out bad writing. Every writer worth a nickel can add five enhancers to every single word in a sentence, OP is producing a very common commodity.

>>17446214
That bit of criticism applies to about 90% of the shit that gets posted in these threads. In fact, I’ve probably said that four or fives times on here. One of the things you can do to update your current style is to read more contemporary stuff, sure, but the biggest hurdle you have to overcome is in recognizing that you don’t need to prove to your reader that you’re smart. Write in a way that is natural and in line with how you actually communicate with people today.

>>17445468
make them a literal robot

anon I crave critique
https://pastebin.com/DDzAYHqZ
short story almost done baking
it's going to be like thirty fucking pages

>>17446423
you have a nice cadence and understanding of words, specifically with how they feel to be read in succession

>>17446265
There is absolutely nothing wrong with having an extremely detailed paragraph here and there in your story. They should be a surprise and a delight to the reader. Otherwise, the rest of your prose should present just enough detail to get by.
As a one off paragraph. Great. If everything, or even half, or even a quarter is like that. Horrid.

https://discord.gg/qZK3jUttFt

>>17446513
>a world’s war chief and his retinue reduced to crawling. Horns hewn of bone sounded in the deep, and the rumblings of drums mingled with the rhythm of the X’shaal’s chants as their king and his kin assailed the climb toward God. In the crepuscular haze of the cavern’s night, candles mounted on sigil-inscribed monoliths the height of towers marked the shame of past failures;

this alone is egregious

>>17446532
Yeah. I was going to say only
>In the crepuscular haze of the cavern’s night
was awful, but that whole second sentence is just too much.

>Horns hewn of bone sounded in the deep, and the rumblings of drums mingled with the rhythm of the X’shaal’s chants as their king and his kin
is fine, I'd say.

>>17446265
I think this would read better if it was framed as an oral epic or something, literally being spoken aloud by some sort of shaman woman. That was the way it came across to me (maybe intentionally?), like I was hearing words passed down from on high transcribed from an ancient tongue.

Although if your confusion really lies in the "is it over-detailed or not" area, then this concerns me. It absolutely is over-detailed. But you can frame that in a useful way

>nothing feels worth it, nothing that I once considered fun or fulfilling
>things that anyone would say are good things feel neutral to me
>continuously feel an anchor of dread inside, don't want to go to sleep because I wasted the day, don't want to wake up because I dread the day
>this makes me also think writing is a waste because it won't be good anyway
>write finally after six months
>it goes away
>this has happened over longer periods and I'm just now realizing that this is the pattern
why am I tied to a difficult and tiresome art

>>17446353
Honestly I think he posted a part where he’s trying to get more intensity and he probably shared it because he’s proud of it, but in other parts of his story it’s probably less wordy. I could be wrong of course that’s just my impression. Being wordy isn’t necessarily bad, it depends on its context in the style and the story. If you’re trying to build almost a poetic rhythm, then being wordy can help.

>>17446673
Is writing the only thing you have?

>>17446532
I don’t know man, I love it (not him). Someone said it sounds like 19th century writing. I love that style. Definitely not commercial, but I’m all for it. You have to believe in your voice no matter what that’s the hard part about being a writer. And I mean, editing is one thing, but if a certain style of writing is the aesthetic his heart wants there’s not much you can do. It’s just up to him to decide if he wants to try to make money or do what he feels passionate about. But honestly in a few years AI will take all our writing jobs anyway

>>17446696
No, not by a longshot. Writing was the thing I always had though. Back when I had nothing, thought I was nothing, and by all standards of situations I was once in, was nothing, I had writing. I wanted to write well, and I showed no one, and therefore it became something worth more than I was in its isolation.

>>17446673
The secret of life is that love doesn’t do the work for you. You have to will yourself first to prove that you’re worthy. Im not religious but I love this quote:
>86. Jesus said, "[Foxes have] their dens and birds have their nests, but human beings have no place to lay down and rest."

>>17442671
No.

>>17442671
Write it, finish it, and print it out. Put it on your bookshelf and start on the next novel. You'll do this a couple more times before you find out whether you have it or not. And, be very happy and proud of yourself when you finish this novel, it'll all be worth it, you'll know that when you see it for yourself. Just remember, it's one step in your long, long, long journey as a writer.

>>17442671
Just turn your brain off and go through the motions until it’s done.

>>17444042
Thats crazy enough to work anon. Never doubt yourself. FUCKING DO IT

I'm not good enough to be the writer I want to be. I don't have the discipline. I don't have the vision. I'm just a burnt-out, derivative autist with a laptop

>>17446819
Hackery will serve you well.

>>17446819
What makes a decent writer is self-analysis and consistency, the hardest thing to do is examine your work and have the courage to realize it's shit, and then fix it. Do this often, and write consistently. Once you feel like you're making improvements, reach out and look for some workshop partners, or maybe enroll in an online writing workshop, maybe your local community college has this, and even a workshop course. It doesn't matter how old you are right now, if you start doing this today, you'll eventually hit your potential if anything was ever there.

>>17446835
>and then fix it.
How? If I'm shit (which I am) I don't have what it takes to fix shit into not-shit.

>>17446847
You can recognize when a story is good, cant you? You've read a book you know is bad, seen a line that's just written poorly. You've read a novel that's been published in the last 5 years, yeah? You know what good writing is and what bad writing is. As a "shit writer" as you profess yourself to be, you need to recognize what you see in other work, in your own work.

>>17446835
>It doesn't matter how old you are right now, if you start doing this today, you'll eventually hit your potential if anything was ever there.

I hit my potential 3 years ago and it's all been downhill from there. I've never been able to replicate the feat of passion that led me to write an entire novel in 2.5 months, and believe you me I've tried everything

I need to be in the zone /wg/. I've spent years of therapy trying to seize it but nobody's been able to help me activate it. I can't accomplish anything without it

>>17446951
try drinking or abusing substances. if that doesn't work then just keep doing it until it does

>>17446819
Write anyway. That should be /lit/s mantra.
>I can’t write because x, y, and/or z
Write anyway

>>17446951
Hire a Stalker to take you there

Book is officially on Amazon, soon no longer to be owned by Bezos

>>17447061
link?

>>17447073
sorry, I published under my real name. Besides, it's a technical book for my future job. I wrote it to sharpen my skills and maybe put it on my resume. It'll be safe to work by summer, probably

>>17447089
How long is your book?

>>17447121
18,000 words

>>17447129
Good for you, anon. Hopes it sells well.

>>17447210
Most likely it won't. I'm going to write a companion book to it and publish in a month. desu it's not very fun and I'd rather be writing fiction

>>17435923
how do I write 3rd person omniscient without it sounding like a kids story

>>17447230
Read James Clavell

>>17447260
Read him, found him to be antiquated in terms of writing quality.

>>17446864
Every novel that was written in the last decade or so had been poorly written.

I'd appreciate feedback, thanks.

>>17447352
this isn't the erotica I expected

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKu0TVlumcc

>>17447362
I don't get it. Are you saying the narrator is a Gary Stu self insert?

>>17442827
nevermind this is really hard

>>17447383
At least you tried, anon.

>>17447376
no, I'm saying that the first paragraph makes it seem like this is going to be an erotica with a guy making his gf lift her skirt up in public or something, but it's just some kid whining at his mom and asking for a bag of Skittles

>>17447391
Oh right lol, well if you read the preceding couple paragraphs that would be more clear.

>>17447395
Why the bait and switch?

>>17447415
There isn't one, like I said if you read the paragraphs before the two I posted you would know he's talking about being a child and asking his mother for stuff.

>>17447424
you didn't include the preceding paragraphs just so we'd experience the bait and switch

booooooooooo

>>17447427
lol my bad, if you want to read about that kind of stuff I'm sure there's an abundance of such material on other dodgy websites. To be fair later on in the same short story there is a bit about him blackmailing schoolgirls with their nudes for unspecified favours.

>>17436215
Hey Anon, two points:
-You’re switching tenses in the middle of a paragraph. While switching tenses over the course of a novel to denote an important change is acceptable, doing so within a paragraph comes across as erratic. Try to stick to one tense - simple past or simple present. For an example of modern simple present prose done pretty well, check out The Overstory.
-Get rid of the -ly verbs. I know this is somewhat of a writing meme, but it does come across as lazy. There are better ways to convey a sense of urgency than saying ‘Then suddenly...’, ‘He immediately...’, etc.

Hope that helps. Keep up the good work, anon.

>>17447442
Thanks, anon, but the switching of the tenses is intentional due to the character's age.

>>17447432
Yeah, but they vary in quality and I don't want to get a subscription or a membership and pay money for erotic stories that might not interest me.

>>17446194
>Hunger Games
Has nothing really top the Hunger Games? Christ.

>>17436215
This is really nitpicky but shouldn't the apostrophe be before the n in "safe n' sorry"?

>>17436806
Do connections even help you when you're trying to publish your novels?

>>17447570
I think it helps for traditional publishing, but only if you know someone who works in the industry. For example, the Eragon kid's mother was a C-suite executive in a publishing house

>>17447588
God, that guy made a fucking killing. Shit like that demoralizes me.

new thread

>>17447604
>>17447604
>>17447604
>>17447604

>>17447601
Wasn’t that just Tolkien and star wars fanfic? Or am I misremembering the story?

>>17447617
I never read the book, I only saw the movie. It was New Hope but set in generic ye olde Europe. Beat for beat exactly the same. I thought the dragon could've been done better. If it had a personality and was cute, it could've been the next how to train your dragon and sold lots of toys. The princess was fucking old too. She looked in her mid 30s and the main character look 16

>>17447017
movie was kino but somewhat cringe

>>17447617
>>17447622
Standard fantasy fare, except that while most fantasy authors lift their plots only vaguely from a previous author, Eragon is simply the plot of Star Wars with a Lord of the Rings paintjob:

Princess flees, trying to keep precious item out of the evil emperor's hands. Boy finds item. Bad guys burn down his farm and kill his uncle. Old mysterious man helps him, and turns out to be part of a secret order of knights to which boy's (now evil) father belonged. Gives boy father's sword and takes him (eventually) to princess, then dies tragically. Boy learns how to fly X-Wings (er, dragons) and goes to take on his father and the evil emperor, &c., &c.

Paolini also resembles other fantasy authors by denying that he is a fantasy author, instead imagining that he is a great literary talent. In his own words:

"In my writing, I strive for a lyrical beauty somewhere between Tolkien at his best and Seamus Heaney's translation of Beowulf"(1)

Unfortunately, his control of language is more akin to a piece of Harry Potter fanfic. There are some days that I wish my parents ran their own publishing company, too. However, if such a boon would require me to write as obliviously as Paolini, I would have to decline.

Yeah, I know he was eighteen, but so was Byron when he wrote "Hours Of Idleness" and Pope when he wrote his "Essay on Criticism". If Paolini doesn't hesitate to compare himself to (what he sees as) literary greats, I certainly have no problem with letting my criticism fall with equal weight on his little bit of fluff.

I think the reason I keep returning to Pulp writers like Robert E. Howard is that those authors just wanted to write exciting stories instead of the next 'literary event'. Authors who lack pretension often write very good stories, because they aren't forcing themselves to write overblown, overly-complex stories. Many modern fantasy authors do the opposite: they write redundant escapist yarns and then get upset that no one considers them to be literary greats, yet.

There is nothing new or interesting here for anyone who has read fantasy before--it's just a rehash of old cliches. The writing, pacing, and characterization are substandard. I wasn't surprised to find that a teen boy wrote this book--it's exactly what I would expect a teenage fantasy fan to write.

>>17447606
Fuck off until page 8 or you're no better than them

>>17447637
Wasn't that based on a novel? Was it ever translated to English?

>>17447695
It also has its own video game if I recall.

>>17447695
russian novel titled roadside picnic or something

>>17447709
S.T.A.L.K.E.R. is based loosely on the novel Roadside Picnic though.

>>17447715
Thanks, now I know what to buy next when I go to the bookstore.

>>17447715
Is it any good like other Russian classics?

>>17447688
Hypocrites, the lot of them.

>>17447760
havent actually read it, sorry

>>17447775
That's alright. It'll be a surprise for me when I do read it. Was the movie any good?

>>17447606
>All that Reddit posting
>All within the first ten posts.
Yeah, no.

>>17447779
i really enjoyed the climax, where they finally reached their destination and it got philosophical, their fears revealed and shit. everything before that was kind of a drag and the stalker's monologue at the end was kinda cringe. but take this with a shovel of salt because i'm just a brainlet. maybe indeed i didn't get it because reading the reviews/analyses, they said it was "supposed to be boring".
tldr i did not hate it.

>>17447792
thanks, I'll check it out myself when I have the time to do so.

>>17447792
Any tips in where to start with the Russian literature? I’ve been meaning to start but I’m not sure where to begin.

Too bad, loli poster. You gotta be faster on your feet

>>17447849
Dosto or Tolstoy are the go-tos if you literally haven't read any Russian literature.

>>17447864
>Bitch and moan that Anime OP makes new thread to early
>Makes new thread when the old thread is still alive.
Not even taking sides in this shit but goddamn. Also, I checked the other thread, and no, just no.

>>17447865
Should I be wary of English translations?

>>17447877
Nice try with concern trolling, loli poster. You think we didn't notice you making new threads at 280 replies?

>>17447885
The new threads were being made around when it was near death.

>>17447896
You're full of shit. The thread before the last one didn't even reach bump limit

>>17447911
Anon, stop, please, he doesn't need to live in your head rent-free.

>>17447959
Archives exist, son, anyone can check basic facts

>>17445998
You know 10 year olds aren't young adults right? You're writing childrens or "middle grade" I believe. Not YA.

>>17448001
What do they read? I read things a bit older my age.

>>17448001
Middle grade and kids is more fantasy and shit - things aimed at young boys. YA is more like things for teenage girls (that 20 year old lib women can also read and enjoy). Percy Jackson or Harry Potter is kids / middle grade, whereas Hunger Games is YA. Lots of kids read older than their age but they don't cross age categories really. A 10 year old will read about a 12 year old but won't read YA about a 16 year old because of YA themes and marketing.

>>17448250
meant for >>17448153

>>17448250
I read a lot of child mystery books, anon,

>>17448284
That must be very exciting for you. Not sure what relevance it has on this though.

>>17448580
I meant to say, as a child read child mystery books. Also that babysitter club.

>>17447442
Thanks anon, this is super helpful. I don't know who that other anon who responded to you is, by the way.
>>17447522
Yeah, I think you're right. Thanks anon.

>>17448679
What made you decide to write your story.

>>17448001
>>17448250
I suppose that's true. I don't really think there's much of a distinction except the subject matter, though. I'm sure if I start talking to agents/publishers I'll start hearing middle grade more, but most places I see discussing stuff like book sales just roll middle grade into YA anyhow. I did realize last night that I wasn't writing it enough like a cartoon, though, so I will try to continue aiming a bit lower.

>>17448787
>see discussing stuff like book sales just roll middle grade into YA
Hate that shit. It should be it’s own separate genre.

>>17448804
I don't know anon, if you think about something like the first Harry Potter book, it obviously had some appeal in both audience groups despite being obviously written for the younger one. I think the distinction is really just in the tone.

>>17448820
Harry Potter is the exception though since each subsequent novel shows the main character growing alongside the reader. Most middle school novels don’t. Sans a few old ones.