/lit/ - Literature

I hate when authors don't describe things like clothing or smell or setting. Or when they do describe it but do a piss poor job at it and make you want to close the book and take a nap.

>>17413394
Are you a woman? Because I never gave two shit's about clothing.

>>17413382
Why, Maeglin, why? ... W-why’d you have to do it?
Was she worth it?
Was Idril, daughter of Turgon, worth all of the Fair City?

>>17413409
>we’ll always have nargothrond

>>17413400
it helps immerse me in the world and get a clear picture of everything.

>>17413433
I like some description, but I hate it when the author gets lost in it.

>>17413400
>shit’s
low iq detected, opinion discarded

>>17413439
I don't mean like that. That's what a classify as bad. It shouldn't take more than a medium sized paragraph imo.

>>17413442
>No capital "L". No period in sentence.

Literally Illiterate. Sub zero IQ.

>>17413382
>”Gondolin, Home” edition

>>17413467
Fuck Melkor Bauglir

Why do the covers have to be so bad?

>>17413473
I know. These are especially bad.

Are there any good scifi novels about like, 90 percent of the population turning into fucked up mutants or something like that and the book's just focused on the psychological aspect of the survivors coping with it

>>17413491
Blood Crazy by Simon Clark is *kind of* what you're asking for. It's horror not scifi, where all of a sudden all adults turn into vicious homicidal maniacs and all the surviving kids have to try to survive. I only mention it because it was really good.

>>17413382
IMAGINE YOU ARE SIRI KEETON

Threadly reminder of the darkness that came before. /sffg/ in the bad old days.

Truth shines.

>>17413685
Kellhus be like smell ya later boss, ima jet. nice knowing you, sorry boutcha

>>17413394
Setting should be described when it's relevant. I don't need to know what the inside of every tavern looks like, but I do when it's in a new country or something like that.

spent all 2020 without finding this gem was out

obligatory listen if you read elric

>>17413458
>Literally Illiterate

Lmao

>>17413810
nice. in case you didn't know.. here's some more Elric metal.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODNqxcRQGH4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzR78NbrnOk

>>17413521
Are you shitting me that was my era is it really not like that anymore? Fuck

>old school elric heavy metal>>>>>>>>>> new school elric power metal

https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLUe7UWE5ek8zYzQCg3bbD40IpbIvNTqMq

anon I love all metal ... Diamond Head does kick ass. here's another around that time I will always enjoy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XF19h3TXQek

>>17413873
>Manilla Road
Dude..... FUCK YEAH

https://music.youtube.com/watch?v=rGuT8sfBNc8&feature=share

https://music.youtube.com/watch?v=E5JJzhoRLtI&feature=share

>>17413898
thanks, new stuff for me to check out. lots of venn diagram intersection with sffg and metalheads ... too bad /mu/ is the fuckin pits of this website. i look forward to the days of going to shows and getting drunks and shilling Bakker to anyone that will listen to me, even the two women at the metal show

>>17413859
Cirith Ungol is the granpappy of all power metal tho'

Mods please don’t delete, this is 100% /sffg/ related.
>Silmarillion based concept album by Blind Guardian.

https://music.youtube.com/watch?v=TSZ7f0Yy-4M&feature=share

>>17412270
Can someone post this?

>>17413810
goddamn that's good

>>17413924
see you at muskelrock 2022, anon. or maybe wacken.

https://music.youtube.com/watch?v=GliylRW5T_c&feature=share

https://music.youtube.com/watch?v=pPITWzxoHvU&feature=share

>>17413936
>Don't fear the eyes of the dark lord
>Morgoth I cried
>All hope is gone but I swear revenge
>HEAR MYYYYYYYY OATH
>I will take part in your damned fate

man Blind Guardian..my absolute first love of power metal. So much metal is built on LoTR. Where are my synthy black metal fans? We can't talk here w/o mentioning Summoning. and Caladan Brood deserves a mention too, though I don't think I have the patience to read Malazan. good night!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmuQBuyR2yI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dw4SmoAXwgc

>>17413924
based. metal chicks are probably the only segment of the female population with the potential to enthusiastically get into bakker.

https://youtu.be/KjXDEuT7onA

https://music.youtube.com/watch?v=WlfS-oakUxM&feature=share

bring back cloak-core
https://music.youtube.com/watch?v=iXQmIpR7jUU&feature=share

>>17413382
I hate niggers

>>17413975

Show up with a banner that says "SFFG" so we can all gather together.

>>17413833
Not a huge fan of their metal stuff but their BotNS inspired mini album is pretty good
https://eternalchampion.bandcamp.com/album/terminus-est

>>17413491
I am Legend, kind of.

>>17413382
>>17413409
>>17413415
>>17413467
>>17413470
dude, don't make me wanna re-read the Silmarillion, again. my backlog is longer than Tolkien's appendices.

>>17414785
its probably better than 90% of your backlog though especially if there’s shit like sanderson and rothfuss in the stack

>>17414817
probably gonna do This Immortal next. also some fag in the previous thread said I'll probably never get around to reading Eifelheim, so I gotta read that soon to defend my honor or some stupid shit like that. (also it sounds fun)

>>17413491
Does it have to be mutants?

>>17413394
clothing descriptions usually bore the fuck out of me unless it's actually relevant to the scene

>>17414046
>>17414015
>>17413990
>>17413975
>>17413936
>>17413898
>>17413833
>All of this edgy shit taste in music

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZKubOYf-no
This is all I need for a super comfy reading session.

I know I grew out of Heavy Metal when I lost my virginity.

>>17415708
>video game music

>>17415729
congratulations

>dying general about a dying genre on a dying board on a dying website for a dying generation

>>17415729
Same for me except I stopped playing video games. (Never was into metal.)

>>17415923
G-got sum moar q-q-qirri?

>>17415945
I stopped playing video games when I stared reading.

>>17415859
>>video game music
Yes, and? It's absolutely kino.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBKItGgtqOo

>>17413473
Because otherwise you'd have to pay actual artists to draw them. Digital art basically killed covers and not just the book variety.

>>17416589
I believe that they paid good money for these covers.
How is it possible that they're still shit? I know a lot of Artists who would do a better job for free.

>>17413810
>>17413833
>>17413859
There are surprisingly good metal tracks for some fantasy works out there. I wish I was into Black Metal as Caladan Brood does Malazan well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUlvIq-TDGI

>>17416601
Because of meddling by the marketing department.
They always insist that the cover has to be a certain way so it can appeal to audiences, for example they always want a main character to be on the front, even though that’s often not necessary.

>>17416601
simply because they're the new standard now. with fantasy you can at least still tell they're supposed to be fantasy, but look at modern covers in general. they're basically interchangeable.

>>17415923
With you to the end, brother.

>>17416640
A cover should never be a zoomer attack on your visual senses.

I'm the first person you will hear say "Never judge a book by its cover", but past experience has thought me otherwise.

>>17416616
Malazan Spoilers, Books 1 and 2I was fucking pissed that Erikson killed off my two favorite characters so early. Hairlock and Coltaine

>>17413859
You mean Manowar
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MUKHQBtxwDo

aesthetic covers only

>>17416697

>>17415923
>when the dolour hits

>>17416697
>>17416754
>no booba
let me show you how it's done

You wake up in the setting of the last sff book you read. What do?

>>17416956
>You wake up in the setting of the last sff book you read. What do?
It really depends on which side I'm on.

>>17416956
Well, it's Embassytown so things get really weird.

>>17416956
I am in Switzerland in the year 2033. A eco-"terrorist" organization in India is causing planes to fall from the sky, and have recently kidnapped a group of wealthy businessmen in Davos to show them that their capatalistic ways are harming the planet. I was on the Chainlink team in the early '20s and the global EU bureaucrats have pulled me into a meeting to discuss creating a new "carbon"-coin, whereby a digital currency will be created and given to those that show improved decreases in CO2 emissions. All I can think about is the gorgeous blonde sitting at the other side of the table from me and how massive her breasts are. The coffee is incredibly stale and I'm fairly certain the representative from DuPont, who is to my direct left at the table, just farted.

>>17416616
Still don't understand how some people call it music when someone is screaming to a microphone. Same with rap desu.

>>17413394
Clothing descriptions should be short concise and should only come up when necessary such as introducing a character for the first time. If you need more than two sentences to describe what they are wearing then you are doing it wrong and even that's stretching it.

>>17417172
Different strokes for different folks.

>>17417172
It's just one of those things. When you take metal songs and put them on sheet music you'd be surprised how many of them are very good classical music songs.

>He still hasn't read Bakker.

What do you guys like to drink during your late night reading sessions?

>>17417578
kava tea with a little cream and maple syrup is peak comfy

What do you look for in a fantasy story?
What is modern fantasy lacking?

>>17417578
whatever, midori illision, vodka, whiskey and aldi coke, wine, the list goes on.

>>17417646
for me it’s
>a sense of awe
>really good and interesting characters
>passages of beauty and dread
>witty and entertaining dialogue
>high stakes for everyone
>really evil but interesting villain(s)
>literary references and well crafted, poetic prose
>intricate worldbuilding that feels real and alive but also unique and unusual
only a few writers can do it desu

>>17417646
The genre lacks a lot of realism with regards to the human nature.

>>17417646
Any fantasy elements in Novels should only be used to sprinkle the story with a sense of awe and wonder. Overdoing it severely undermines any immersion and realism from the story.

Most fantasy author's also have a pathological obsession with outlining. This is the main reason why stories feel artificial.

>>17417578
Decaf Coffee, 2 creams, no sugar

>>17417646
The problem with modern fantasy is that it always includes politics and sjw-ism.

>>17417578
I like to drink a gin tonic with a lemon zest. Nothing too strong.

>>17417646
Most sff writers are introverted geeks with no real grasp of the real world.

>>17417646
>What is modern fantasy lacking?

Freedom from being so character-driven in every single respect. Modern fantasy is basically "unless you've sold the readers on your characters in the first 50 pages your book is garbage" and that seems to be the primary reason why so many can't get into genre classics. Modern authors worship characters to a point of being fetishistic.

What' better in your opinion?

A race that is based off of real mythology and has ties to a real world culture
OR
A race that has no ties to real mythology and has no ties to real world culture

>>17418147
I honestly don't want to start an endless and pointless debate, but I 100% disagree with you.

Very few people can write good characters. Most of the stories I've read are horrible in that regard.

What can I read that's like Vampire Hunter D?
>far future supernatural science fantasy

>>17418170
That's the thing, though. My point wasn't about it being good or bad in execution, but rather how authors see characters as a shortcut for everything and easy way to invest the reader. Readers nowadays seem to demand all fantasy be that way.

What are some books that feature insects? I know Perdido Street station has the insect people.

>>17418152
An interesting race.

>>17418152
Why not create your own mythology?

>>17418193
People keep dismissing this, but the target fantasy audience is overwhelmingly female. They are writing for their target audience.

>>17418202
Children of Time ;)
>>17418181
Seconding this. Black Sun Rising is somewhere along those lines, but it's not really that grim and it doesn't feel truly apocalyptic far future.

>>17418181
The most similar books i can think of are the Coldfire trilogy.

Jannynigg deleted my thread but what’s with the start with the Greeks bro obsession? I just want comfy fiction books

>>17413382
Is N.K. Jemisin any good?

>>17413936
best power metal album ever recorded (smartest kid on the short bus)

am I going to have to take notes while reading Malazan? I open up the book to a map and a bunch of character biographies

>>17418304
>being this new

>>17418344
And

>>17418341
>am I going to have to take notes while reading Malazan?
Pay attention to the poems and print out the map. That's all.

>>17418349
>And
Start with the Greeks.

>>17418356
>start with the Greeks
No. NO

>>17418304
How do you expect to appreciate those comfy fiction books without encyclopedic knowledge of any of the works from the last 3000 years that fiction might reference, take inspiration, or make homage to?

>>17418356
Start with Harry Potter

>>17418374
Stop miss-quoting.

>>17418383
I'm not mis quoting. I'm telling you to start with Harry Potter.

>>17418292
i read that too, i forgot...

How "pozzed" is Nightvale?

>>17418828
When Dashcon was a thing for one year (The Tumblr convention) one of the main selling points was a live reading of Welcome to Nightvale.
>Which of course turned out to not be true and they changed the websites refund policy 5 minutes before they announced they had canceled so nobody could get their money back haha gottem

>>17418856
>dashcon
Holy shit, that's a blast from the bast.
>2014 was 7 years ago

>tfw trusted him
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBOQz41MxkQ

>>17418856
But is it worth a read/listen, or is it just filled with gay black islam inserts to appeal the the tumblerinas?

Why didn't the Aspect-Emperor teleport his armies? Even if he could only move two people at a time like Serwa, he should still be able to move some hundreds of men per day?

>Fool, fool! You’ve got to bleed for the dancer.

>>17419220
Use the spoiler filter, you shitter.

>>17419220
>Why didn’t he just skip the Ordeal and teleport directly into the Golden Room since getting him there seems to be the only reason for the Ordeal in the first place?
>Why didn’t the eagles just fly over Mordor and drop the ring in the crack of doom?
because then there would be no story

>>17419224
hovering over this gif and expecting it to be the image of the cover made me feel like i was on acid for a second there

>>17419242
Is it really a spoiler? They are traveling as soon as the Aspect-Emperor series starts.

>>17419250
>Why didn’t the eagles just fly over Mordor and drop the ring in the crack of doom?
Because then Sauron would see them comming.

>making flying carpets into hackneyed fighter jets
That was pretty retarded.

Anyone read PKDs Ubiq? Good read?

>>17419220
Because even for him The Translocation cant is extremely tiring and he can only jump as far as his horizon if he knows the places well enough. How many men do you reckon he could take like that over thousands of miles?

>>17419336
yes. yes.

>>17418314
If you can overlook the darkie grievance, not half bad

>>17419250
the eagles didn't fly to mordor because they really can't be bothered to care. they are animals after all, not elves/men/dwarves/hobbits. while they do not like morgoth's creations, they are not possessed of greater emotions/feelings of responsibility like the children of illuvatar are.

bakker didn't have kilhouse teleport because then we would have had golgotterath wrapped up while akka has yet to pull off his woody allen routine with mimara. bakker needed 4 full tomes of jackin' it to akka being a cuck and pseud-level "philosophy". and, to say one positive thing about aspect-emperor, it was nice to see non-men society, which we wouldn't have with instant teleport to the horns

>>17418314
>>17419440
>Narrative in present tense.

>>17419220
>take two people somewhere on the plains of agongorea
>leave to get the next ones
>get back
>first pair has already been found, mutilated and raped by sranc hordes and are now being worn as adornments

>>17418314
>>17419440

>dat 3rd person present tense
>sneaking suspicion she's only celebrated because of the color of her skin rather than the content of her work

idk man, it'd be nice if her stuff really is as good as the idiots shilling her because she's a black sff writer say she is, but i'm not holding my breath long enough to get past that terrible 3rd person present tense shit.

>>17418314
she won 3 hugos 3 years in a row

that means she's bad, i've read her btw

>>17419444
>bakker needed 4 full tomes of jackin' it to akka being a cuck
kek

>>17419220
quite possibly the dumbest post i've ever read

>>17419464
The north is pretty big.

Also, if not some men, he could've at least teleported with some bread and beer kegs.

>>17419518
>3 hugos in 3 years
participation prize since there are literally no other black women sff writers (after octavia butler, pbuh)

>>17419553
do you realise how long it would take to teleport 400k men?

Also he doesn't spam teleport because it tires him and if there's enemies nearby when he arrives he can get btfo

reminder that bakkers editor wanted conphas to be a girl.

would be good for the libs.. until she got raped by gnauir and saubon chopped her head off lol, they would hate him even more than they do now

Should authors really be praised when they transpose their inspirations into their Novels?
Where's the merit in "copy/pasting" something you've read from folklore or an another author's work?

I'm not trying to bait here. I'm genuinely curious.
Isn't this just laziness if it's not done in very a subtle way.

>>17419553
KEGGER ON SHIGOGLI BRAH! STOLE A HANDLE OF ANPLOI FROM THE JUDGES! SWAYALI GIRLS ARE DRUNK AND TOOK OFF THEIR BILLOWS! WOOOOOOO

>>17419597
>reminder that bakkers editor wanted conphas to be a girl.
Source on this?

In any case, that would have ruined the book if her character/story was still the same.

>>17419285
More like bomber planes.

>>17419620
>tfw no meat crazed swayali gf to "rape" you with compulsion cants

>>17419597
I have very mixed opinions on Editors in general. Some of them should simply shut the fuck up and stick to their main task, which is skimming the extra words. Other's are there simply to suffer at the amount of shit that some writers create.

>>17419555
It's fucking pitiful what's happened to Hugo Awards. It really has devolved into a diversity pity party. If you ain't a black woman you don't matter.

why does fantasy and heavy metal fit so well together?

>>17419729
I don't think I've ever read about mercury in a fantasy novel.

>>17419753
The element or the planet? I have heard of both.

>>17419763
The element, otherwise I would have capitalized the first letter. I'm actually not sure if there's a convention for this or not.

I also don't think that I've ever read any fantasy book that takes place in the real world.

>>17419629
it's definitely true, I just can't remember where I read it.

Don't see how it would have ruined the books, conphas isn't exactly a frontline fighter

>>17419620
kek

>>17419686
they usually are pretty spot on when it comes to recommendations to make a series more popular, see Kishimoto (naruto guys) editor who told him to do stuff like include sasuke (most popular character) and skip early story stuff to rush to chunin exams (most popular arc and made the series blow up, bad in the long run though)

>>17419696
based grmm went up and mispronounced all the ethnic names tho

>>17419778
narnia

>>17419780
>Don't see how it would have ruined the books, conphas isn't exactly a frontline fighter

Had he kept the same narrative, everything would have gone to shit. Men and women have different motivations and social roles, especially in the Second Apocalypse world.

>>17419800
Popular =/= Good

>>17413521
sanderfaq gives chris-chan vibes in this pic

>>17419763
>The element or the planet?
Only one of them is a heavy metal.

why can't /sffg/ admit that GRRM is actually a really good fantasy writer and the AISOF is actually the best fantasy series written in the last 30 years

>>17419854
I wouldn't say "the best". But sure, you're not wrong.

>>17419854
>why can't /sffg/ admit that GRRM is actually a really good fantasy writer and the AISOF is actually the best fantasy series written in the last 30 years

>>17419831
yeah but a lot of authors want to be popular

>>17419854
>le fakeout death number #12512
>cringe self insert sam character who grmm seems to think is defensible despite him being a lazy fat cowardly greedy fuck who gets several other characters killed saving his fat lazy ass and somehow gets a waifu
>generic jon snow character who is le secret prince
>dragons in the current year
>terrible meme tier caricature cultures in the east
>dothraki worldbuilding makes no sense

>>17419831
this is a cope to excuse mediocre work

>>17419883
>yeah but a lot of authors want to be popular
Absolutely, which is why most of them are shit.

>>17419854
The only reason for people being down on it is its popularity due to the show. If Gene Wolfe's series became some huge TV phenomenon, the same thing would happen to it here.

>>17419892
That mental extrapolation is fantastic, pal. Is that why you're not popular?

>>17419894
>>17419908
this is no different than a cynical hipster band that thinks they should be multi millionaires playing on massive stages but are extremely obscure because their music is just too intelligent for the general population.. like I said, massive pathetic cope

>>17419854
Tyrion licked his lips with pleasure, then drained his golden goblet of warm, fresh diarrhea. The hearty brown liquid was thick and soupy, with just enough muddled dingleberries to lend it a pleasant texture. Belching with contentment, Tyrion tossed aside his goblet and proceeded to thrust his hard pink mast into the nearest honey roasted duck.

>>17419915
Tell me this then. Why isn't Bakker, or Wolfe for that matter, widely popular?

>>17419928
too complex and dark, NOT A HECKIN RAPISTARINOO

>>17419928
b-because muh sexism
as if GRRM really sees wammen as anything other than warm moaning fuckholes for his pleasure.

>>17419927
That's actually pretty good desu.

>>17419940
They would never make Game of Thrones today.

>>17413952

>>17420057
Thanks anon.

>>17419915
I think that the cynical one here is you. Most artists (not all), regardless of their trade, have virtually no exposure unless some one influent notices them and promotes their work. With enough money and influence you can build a lie and sell it. Just open your eyes and look around.
You're also assuming that artists have delusions of grandeur, when it's the other way around more often than not.

They sold pic related for €275,000 in an auction.
Swallow that cope.

>>17420090
that item was bought by a single wealthy buyer, books are made popular by the mass consumption of the population, each an individual who reads and attaches to an author's work because they personally enjoy it.. differences here. if you're a "commoner" with no connections and have an incredible novel that you've written, it WILL catch on if you allow it to be read by one, two, three, four - if it's actually an amazing book, it will spread through their chatter.

>>17420120
>if you're a "commoner" with no connections and have an incredible novel that you've written, it WILL catch on if you allow it to be read by one, two, three, four - if it's actually an amazing book
>he actually fucking believes this

>>17420136
it's actually true, you are just coping

>>17420120
>if you're a "commoner" with no connections and have an incredible novel that you've written, it WILL catch on if you allow it to be read by one, two, three, four - if it's actually an amazing book, it will spread through their chatter.

>>17420120
>if you're a "commoner" with no connections and have an incredible novel that you've written, it WILL catch on if you allow it to be read by one, two, three, four - if it's actually an amazing book, it will spread through their chatter.
Like F Gardner?

>>17420143
show me an incredible book that is floating in limbo because no one will read it

>>17420148
My diary desu.

>>17420152
exactly, thank you. the truth is, there are so many outlets today that will take your "incredible novel" for free and give it space, that you have no excuse for your amazing once in a decade piece of literature not to have sprouted a fanbase somewhere

>>17420140
I guess no author who ever wrote a good book died poor then. Oh wait.

>>17420180
Oh no no no no no no.

>>17420180
is that your diary, desu?

>>17420198
We accept your surrender.

>>17420191
>>17420180
I love it how you copecels are acting as if all of those authors who died and whose work are now considered classics, would have died as such if they had the 100000 digital outlets we had today, writers are extremely spoiled in 2021

>>17420201
no surrender, if confederacy of dunces was put on digital bookshelf's after release then he would've been a millionaire within 3 years instead of a suicide

>>17420208
>b-b-b-but th-that doesn't c-count!
>m-my comment also only applies to the information age!
You're a fucking retard m8. Plenty of people write very good literature and never get recognized out of sheer bad luck or simply because the people of their time don't relate to what they wrote. Plebs are notoriously shallow and if you aren't it can be hard to keep their attention.

>>17420218
bullshit, academics write 500 pages of self maturbatory prose with no story and get salty that no one wants to read their garbage

>>17420234
In what way is that a refutation of what I just said?

>>17420218
>>17420235
>m-my comment also only applies to the information age!
obviously it does you fucking retard since that's how the conversation started, there is no AMAZING unheard of scifi or fantasy that is just in limbo because it won't get published we ARE talking about today

>>17420234
>>17420210
>>17420208
Based retard.

>>17420240
no one on /lit/ has a great book that is going unpublished because they're too smart for the fiction world, they just write trash and then get cynical when no one likes it

>>17420238
>if you're a "commoner" with no connections and have an incredible novel that you've written, it WILL catch on if you allow it to be read by one, two, three, four - if it's actually an amazing book, it will spread through their chatter.
>obviously (my comment only applies to the information age) you fucking retard
>there is no AMAZING unheard of scifi or fantasy that is just in limbo because it won't get published we ARE talking about today
Wew lad has anybody ever scored against you when the goalposts fly all over the field like that? Probably not.

>>17420258
holy fuck what could anything I wrote apply but the information age? the topic was based on some retard saying there are fantasy books better than ASIOF that have gone unpublished

Guys, I'm not feeling so well. I just read 50 shades of Grey and it has become my favorite novel.

>>17420258
>remove context of conversation
>take one exchange out of 10 out of context
>HOLY FUCK I GOT YOU
you are a shit writer, just admit it

>>17420268
Can you write that first sentence again but with coherent grammar?

>>17420275
>>17420268

Shameless sammefag.

>>17420276
you will never get published
and it will be because you suck
not because the fiction world isnt ready for you

>>17419854
>no ending
>"good"

>>17420280
Neither will you, buddy. Not with that low IQ grammar.

>>17420275
>take general statement
>laugh because it's fucking wrong
>"NUH UH DUDE AKSHUALLY THAT STATEMENT ONLY APPLIES TO THIS MORE SPECIFIC SITUATION"
Are you aware of how deductive and inductive reasoning works? Your general statement is hilariously wrong and easily shown to be. Specifying the situation further doesn't really change that, unless you flat out resort to cherrypicking.

>>17420268
>the topic was based on some retard saying there are fantasy books better than ASIOF that have gone unpublished
We're going full omnipresence now, boys.

The autism spread too much, it's mutated.

>>17420268
and where are these "unpublished books," hm? do they speak to you, anon?
are they in the room with us right now?

>>17420335
NOOOOOOOO. I'M RIGHT AND YOU'RE WRONG. GRRM IS THE SINGLE GREATEST LIVING AUTHOR OF ALL ETERNITY

>Measure is unceasing.

We're in a skinny thread, boys!

Flammewar of flammewars!

>>17420120
>if you're a "commoner" with no connections
Is this your way of saying: middle/upper class person with an academic degree living in a first world English-speaking country?

>>17420391
Hey to be fair to him that "idea" probably "works" in asian countries too, so long as you're willing to write litRPG or isekaishit.

>>17420391
Okay.. let me sum it up for your copers. This is my summary... this is my point. Feel free to cry and whine about it.

In the modern day, any book worthy of being published, will be published. It may take you a year of searching, but if it is truly a worthy book, someone desperately wants to sell it, or put it on their shelf like an academy award. If that's not the route you want for your unpublished masterpiece, there are literally hundreds of sites that are willing to host your work for (free) with readers who are willing to take a chance on your work... You can even go on Amazon and publish your "amazing book" which can get seen by a publisher, or even published by Amazon, if it's good enough... There is NO excuse for "my book isn't getting published because of the Jews"... ideology and "SJW's" are not your problem.. your problem is that your book SUCKS. and YES, GRRM is the best living fantasy author, get over it.

>>17420431
Not gonna make it.

Any recommendations for collections of Howard's stories? I've been reading his correspondence with Lovecraft and really enjoy his descriptions of Texas and old gunslinger legendry, but I've never actually checked out any of his fiction. I'd like a volume that gives a decent sense of the variety of his writing, if possible. Seems like the ones I've glanced at are all segregated by genre.

>>17420431
How’s the weather in Santa Fe, George? It’s freezing up here in Upstate New York.

>>17420431
>any book worthy of being published, will be published
What an amazingly unfalsifiable hypothesis.
>It may take you a year of searching, but if it is truly a worthy book, someone desperately wants to sell it, or put it on their shelf like an academy award.
Define "worthy". Right now what you're calling "worthy" reads as "has sufficient mass-appeal to generate a return on investment for publishers." That's not the same thing as quality.
>If that's not the route you want for your unpublished masterpiece, there are literally hundreds of sites that are willing to host your work for (free) with readers who are willing to take a chance on your work
That's self-publishing through a website, not getting a book published.
>You can even go on Amazon and publish your "amazing book" which can get seen by a publisher, or even published by Amazon, if it's good enough...
Define "good". See point 2.
>There is NO excuse for "my book isn't getting published because of the Jews"... ideology and "SJW's" are not your problem..
Projection, nobody was talking about any of this.
>your problem is that your book SUCKS
Assuming "sucks" is the opposite of what you defined "good" or "worthy" as, "sucks" just means that it doesn't have mass-appeal. That's not the same as having low quality.
>GRRM is the best living fantasy author, get over it
Oh so this was a troll post. I guess they didn't diagnose me with assburgers for nothing.

>>17420431
bakker only got published because he had a jewish friend in college who passed his manuscript to publisher

>>17420483
Which living fantasy author has written a better work than ASOIAF? There are also self published authors with massive fanbases, your great piece of work will get an audience if it's in-fact... great.

>>17420495
>Which living fantasy author has written a better work than ASOIAF?
B

>>17420500
Go ahead...

>>17420495
>Which living fantasy author has written a better work than ASOIAF?
Why is this relevant?
>There are also self published authors with massive fanbases
Not relevant
>your great piece of work will get an audience if it's in-fact... great
Not a causal relation, easily demonstrated by all the shit works that also have audiences. Try again.

>>17420495
>does it trouble you?
>d-does what trouble me?
>to know that Martin burns in hell.3

>>17420500
>>17420505
randon sanderson

>>17420508
They're not shit works, actually I'm sure they tell a much better story than your shit for brains self-masturbatory prose.

>>17420530
Your argument is invalid. I don't write.

>>17420508
>easily demonstrated by all the shit works that also have audiences
That just shows the cutoff is low.

>>17420515
>Post number 223
That's a new record.

>>17420530
So you directly equate quality to audience then? As in, if a work has an audience it has quality? Is this relationship linear? If I have a bigger audience than someone else, did I make a work with better quality?
>>17420546
He didn't mention a cutoff.

>>17420548
No, the point is (that in the modern age) that great works do not go unnoticed. You may not have an audience like SK, but.. your work will be noticed and praised. If no one is reading your shit, it's probably because you're writing shit.

>All popular authors are better than all the unpublished ones.

The things you learn on /sffg/.

>>17420554
So there's no relation between audience size and relative quality then? That's what you're saying?

>>17420554
The future will prove you wrong. There will always be famous post mortem authors.

>>17420560
In the same way that great music has gotten audiences, like.. let's say Queen or Rush, if your work is undeniably great, it will become successful. I'm not saying that just because Justin Bieber made more $ than Freddie Mercury that he's better.. I'm saying that great works always get recognition. No one on /lit/ has a great novel that has gone unnoticed because of "Jews" or "SJWs" or "white hatred" in the publishing world.

>>17420560
>>17420574
Essentially, if someone on /lit/ truly has a great novel, they WILL become known and they WILL garner a fan-base.

>>17420579
>>17420574
Samefag.

>>17420547
The Sanderfag leadership was decisively crushed and humiliated in the last battle of /sffg/. Their scattered forces have run back to the accursed hovels of the Shart forums. They will trouble us no more.

>>17420586
Do you think I'm trying to hide that I'm the same person you fucking retard?

>>17420591
>The Sanderfag leadership was decisively crushed and humiliated in the last battle of /sffg/. Their scattered forces have run back to the accursed hovels of the Shart forums. They will trouble us no more.

>>17420574
So if I have an audience of, say, 100 people my work is undeniably great, just like the work of someone who has an audience of 100000? Seriously, your view on this isn't even coherent.
>I'm saying that great works always get recognition
You can't prove this because it's impossible due to an untold number of potentially lost great works. Also many actual great works only got recognized after the artist died.
>No one on /lit/ has a great novel that has gone unnoticed because of "Jews" or "SJWs" or "white hatred" in the publishing world.
I'm really not understanding why you're so obsessed with this thing that nobody but you is talking about. More importantly, I'm not taking about it so unless it somehow makes your point stronger (it doesn't) I have no idea why you're bringing it up.

>>17420596
>You can't prove this because it's impossible due to an untold number of potentially lost great works. Also many actual great works only got recognized after the artist died.
We're talking in the context of 2021.

>>17420593
Shame.

>>17420596
>So if I have an audience of, say, 100 people my work is undeniably great, just like the work of someone who has an audience of 100000? Seriously, your view on this isn't even coherent.
No, I'm saying the time of great works going unnoticed is over. I'm saying that there is no great novel not getting any attention, great work in the modern age is recognized.

>>17420611
Furthermore, there are so many fucking outlets, publishing houses, and agents.. that are all searching for the next great literary work, that if you have it, they fucking want it. I'm sorry, but you don't have the next great piece of literature if it's being refused everywhere.

>>17420605
The point is still valid. How many great works never got a chance to be recognized before a housefire destroyed them? How many got deleted as casualties of hackings or deletions of unused content? You can't give me a number because that's impossible. Not to mention that the point you've made effectively makes the idea of an "unrecognized great work" impossible, as the simple recognition of it being a great work means it is recognized.
>>17420611
>No, I'm saying the time of great works going unnoticed is over
See above.

>>17420596
>Also many actual great works only got recognized after the artist died.
This was only in the past anon. It will surely never happen again.

>>17420632
We're talking about authors who complain about the publishing world not wanting their great book. This doesn't actually happen, great books are sought after. That's the conversation, there's no truly great book that is refused, they are all hunted and wanted.

>>17420611
>>17420631
Ever heard the term “oversaturation”?
Give up, Anon, you’ve lost the argument. Your Kantian view of great art inevitably winning out by virtue of its quality is pure copium. There are forgotten basements and cupboards across the world filled with great works of art that will never see the light of day.

>>17420647
Based.

>>17420647
Saturation consists of work that exists in a spectrum of quality. You can have an oversaturated market with a newly injected work that is of great quality, of which kicks out work on the rim of acceptance.

>>17420641
>moving the goalposts again
>[publishers not wanting great works] doesn't actually happen
Unfalsifiable by your definition of great works. It would be literally impossible to provide even a hypothetical counterexample.
>This doesn't actually happen
Because you've defined your terms such that it is impossible.
>there's no truly great book that is refused
Because you define greatness as not being refused.
You've pretty much just said "Great books get published because they're great, and published books are great because they're published."

>>17420656
I'm saying the book you write in which you think is amazing but isn't getting published anywhere or recognized anywhere is actually a bad book. I'm saying this for every single book written in the modern age, if it gets no recognition and it fails to get published -over and over and over again, it IS a bad book.

>>17420675
Okay, looks like I won. Holy fuck, you people on /sffg/ are fucking retarded.

>>17420656
irrefutable. optimist autist btfo.

>>17420675
>I'm saying the book you write in which you think is amazing but isn't getting published anywhere or recognized anywhere is actually a bad book
!"Great books are published because they're great" = "Bad books aren't published because they're bad"
>if it gets no recognition and it fails to get published -over and over and over again, it IS a bad book
!"Published books are good because they're published" = "Books that don't get published are bad because they don't get published"
All you've done is invert the logic. It's still unfalsifiable.

>>17420675

I love the part where you completely ignored: >>17420391

Yet, you keep repeating the same flawed arguments.

>>17420675
You think GRRM is the best living fantasy author because he’s the only one who most normies have heard of. Absolutely braindead argument. GRRM sucks as a writer and his books are pure airport-bookstore-tier entertainment with almost zero literary value or depth.

>>17420675
You lost.

>>17420704
Give him a break. That's all he's ever read.

the only thing that gets book a book published is its ability to generate revenue. the undefinable quality of being "good" or "great" definitely influences this, but it's far from the most most potent or consistent one.

in other words a shitty YA novel is way, way more likely to get published than an earnest but mediocre attempt at writing good fiction. a genuinely great book will almost certainly be published if the author is persistent enough though.

>>17420733
That's a far more reasonable and accurate position to take.

>>17420675
Check your privilege.

>>17420675
the only thing getting your book published proves is that you had connections in the industry or you got really lucky that your writing happened to catch the eye of an editor that was looking for what youre writing. Doesnt necessarily mean the book is good or bad

>>17420740
>>17420733
You wrote a shit book and no one took interest in it because it was poorly written. Just write one again and don't become cynical.

>>17420733
It's not only that. Some people are completely overseeing other important aspects.

If you live in a small country (and write in a non-popular language) or live under an authoritarian regime, you're completely fucked.

The other retard thinks that every one lives in a Democratic American city.

the copium GRRM shill is clearly retarded. still, i don’t want you other /sffg/ aspiring writers to give up on your dreams. keep it up and don’t give up. i have a feeling that maybe an anon or two reading this will be among the next generation of important fantasy writers.

>>17420704
GRRM is a titan. there's an almost 100% chance you've only read the cherry picked bits that get shitposted on /lit/ everyday, or you're a a contrarian 20-something who's in love with the allure of having taste but hasn't quite figured out the substance of it.

>>17420740
I'm an actual fucking genius. I'm an incredible person.

>>17420759
You got absolutely steamrolled by a logical debate autist who proved you're a dumb faggot with incoherent opinions.

>>17420745
Right, but I'm not saying it's a one and done thing. If it happens a hundred times, it's really not good. If your "great" book runs the gambit for two years, listen, you need to look where you fucked up, and write it better next time. I think this is actually a huge problem on /lit/ you people get rejected and think it's because "they don't understand" it's actually because you suck, and you need to get better.

Literally just write a good book bro. Its that easy.

>>17420773
>>17420764
Based.

>>17420759
Cringe.

>>17420773
There was no logic, it's all a coping mechanism for when your shit book gets rejected everywhere. The cream rises to the top in the publishing world, it may take a year or so, or it may take self-publishing of a novel you wrote that eventually gets published, but good work becomes known very quickly (relative to before) this isn't even debateable.

>>17420759
why did I get lumped into this I'm just trying to enlighten people

>>17420764
My whole fucking point is that you shouldn't become cynical writers. This "logic" in /sffg/ is that your refused book is actually amazing and it's THEM who are the issue, NO - YOU ARE THE ISSUE. Learn from your mistakes and write it better next time.

>>17420785
>>17420759
S E E T H I N G

>>17420785
Holy fuck this absolute denial of reality lmao

>>17420777
>upvoted
>downvoted

>>17420793
>My whole fucking point is that you shouldn't become cynical writers. This "logic" in /sffg/ is that your refused book is actually amazing and it's THEM who are the issue, NO - YOU ARE THE ISSUE. Learn from your mistakes and write it better next time.

Who are you quoting?

>>17420804
I'm the "retarded shill"

>>17420793
I'm pretty sure your point was that publishing = quality, as clearly shown above.

>>17420816
A quality book will certainly be published.

>>17420832
Do we really need to do this again?

>>17420326
go look up a webcomic called electric retard.

>>17420836
The funniest thing about this, is that none of my posts would be disagreed with in the publishing world. This is all agreed upon in the publishing world.

>hide shitty retard flamewar off-topic insane nonsense
>entire thread gets hidden
think it's time to leave sffg for good, nothing of value has been posted here in over a month.

>>17420832
Are we just going full "ignore every previous argument" mode now?

did anyone here actually write a novel-length story, try to get it published, and fail

>>17420840
>argument from authority
>argument from popularity

>>17420765
>GRRM is a titan
He’s well known for his titanic girth and appetites for consoomption, as well as his absolutely titanic and epic procrastination in finishing his stupid pop-lit garbage series.

How does one argue with retarded people?

Even after you dismantle their fallacies, they still think they've one the argument.

I should one act in such cases?

>>17420842
>implying that my effortposts of tolkien art and elric-themed metal, featured prominently at the start of the thread, have no value
i’m hurt, anon

>>17420840
>The funniest thing about this, is that none of my posts would be disagreed with in the publishing world. This is all agreed upon in the publishing world.

>>17420855
IRL we used to just beat them until they learned to shut the fuck up. Online it's best to make it into an entertaining show so people reading the argument will laugh at them and agree with you. In fact that second part applies to all internet arguments. Nobody ever admits defeat online so arguing specifically to beat them is pointless. What you want to do is make sure that they look so fucking stupid that nobody seeing the argument wants to be associated with them.

>>17420865
extra basé

>>17420855
you either do it for sport or for the audience. you'll never get anyone to actually change their mind in the moment. best case scenario, they'll deflate, not think about it for two weeks, and then when it comes up in their head they'll think "holy shit I was retarded, good thing I was anonymous" and their view will change somewhat.

if you think your arguments have merit then be content with that. everything else is of no consequence to you.

>This thread has an average of 6 posts per user.

>>17420900
based kot poster.
damn... 1:6 poster ratio that means some anons have made 20+ posts ITT.
get your lives together, people.

>>17420840
I disagree. The funniest thing about all of this is the fact that you ignored every single rational argument against you.

Shame.

>>17420852
the term "pop-lit" should be interpreted in the literal sense, which is to say "pervasive". you hate it because it's normie-adjacent.

I agree that the combination of extreme scope creeping and GRRM growing utterly disinterested in it after the show being a total fiasco means that the series will never get finished.

it's still one of the best examples of anthropological fantasy we've ever seen.

>>17420937
i could explain in detail why i hate GRRM’s anti-intellectual wankery, which is literally written with the same profit motive and mass-market potential as a netflix series, but i know i’m not going to convince your pseud ass, and could better spend the time working on my novel. so i will instead direct you here: >>17419927

>>17420990
>anti-intellectual
I have never seen this term used by someone who wasn't a midwit suckling on the teat of academia like it was dispensing the juice of the fruit of knowledge. I don't think you've ever seen someone who's actually anti-intellectual.

>>17420990
if you could make an actual value judgement, you would. since you can't, you have to make vague claims about your credibility and mine.

I don't even like GRRM that much. you're a contrarian, down to the marrow. I've seen thousands like you. it's obvious.

>>17416956
>the Forgotten Realms
so i go from 2021 America to 2021 America but with dragons.

Let me see if I can explain this.

More often than not, when an author is describing an intelligent alien/non-human species, they sometimes make these species look at humans with awe because of the way humans express sentiments like hope and love.

Are there any authors that make other beings have these same feelings? Or even better, make it seem like humans are dull in comparison?

No elves please

>>17421040
I outright dismiss anyone that uses the word "hate" in a normal conversation.

Who the fuck even hates an author? And why? I don't think that people understand what hate is.

>>17421071
in this context it means "habitual or reflexive dislike". it's not "anime protagonist/they killed my wife and children" hate.

>>17420438
try the Best of Robert E Howard collections

Slog of Slogs!

I keep hearing Sarl in my head throughout my day.

>>17421113
Does he keep calling you a weeper faggot?

>>17420495
>Which living fantasy author has written a better work than ASOIAF?

>>17421177
I've been reading Le Guin lately and it makes me feel like everything published these past few decades is garbage written by adolescents

is Moorcock as good as she is?

>>17421188
I haven't read LeGuin yet but I can say that Moorcock is very good

>>17421188
Leguin’s worldbuilding is much more unique, and her philosophy is more interesting and deeper. Moorcock is more of a traditional high fantasist. Thery’re both required reading for any /sffg/ poster desu.

>>17421215
>>17421215
>>17421215

>>17421215
>>17421215
>>17421215

>>17421215
>>17421215
>>17421215

>>17421208
>>17421209
thank you. on the backlog he goes

>>17421173
That would be Kosoter or Cnaiur.

>>17421054
In my in progress novel the view of humans from the alien perspective is that they're somewhere between depressing to think about and horrifying in the same way that thinking about a rogue black hole destroying the earth is horrifying. The only human(ish) character views the aliens themselves as tragic because he thinks they'll fuck up in exactly the same way as humanity did but worse because they have more readily available resources for atomic weapons and their world has lower gravity which makes space-based warfare much easier. He does like them as people though.

>>17420591
>rent free
Insecure faggot even in "victory", cute.

>>17421906
You lost.

>>17421997
>you're still here

>>17422349
I couldn't pass on the opportunity to humiliate you. That's why you're here, is it not?

>17422358
>he said, desperately begging for (You)'s in a "dead thread"