/lit/ - Literature

Let's be 100% honest here: she is cute and I would nut in dat ass. I don't care if there is a dick, in fact this makes the sex more exciting to me

>>17418882
The jannies now have you in their sights. No tranny talk here!

>>17418882
Philosophical materialism.

There are none. You either join or you don’t

>>17418882
They have been seen in history before. There was even a trans Roman Emperor, Elagabalus.

>>17418888
Quads checked

>>17418889
Why do they keep removing the threads? PT is related to literature and the last thread was specifically requesting books on the topic just like this one.

>>17418882
See pic

Any book on the psychology of extreme fetishes, I suppose.

>>17418911
There have been crossdressers but to my knowledge there have never been people in history claiming that they are women when they were born male.

>>17418911
and the Russian statesman Kutmybolsov

Why is it that the same people who complain about the involvement of politics in entertainment can't go five minutes without mentioning trannies?

>>17418888
How do you write this out and not question what's wrong with yourself? How do these people, both the trans people and those who fetishize them, not look at themselves as something which has been infected? You've been corrupted by a sick society. How can you not see it? Do you just not care?

>>17418911
There has always been delusional, mentally ill people. But not on the scale that exists now.

>>17418882
It is part of life. The third sex and the like has been with us since we first figured out the effects of castration. Nothing new, eunuchs became taboo for awhile in western culture and now that the idea of something other than binary gender has returned it offends some because they grew up with it as taboo. The history of eunuchs is fairly interesting and much more than just something which was done at birth or a punishment, some people chose to become eunuchs.

>>17418888
imo the key to successful transitions rest in your existing genetics and features. some already have androgynous physical features or feminine/masculine mannerisms and behaviors. for some they may naturally be inclined to this, and when they transition they look more convincing or even indistinguishable in some cases, but this requires a certain degree of already existing features. maybe feminine looking men and masculine looking women are a manifestation of certain people being predisposed to transgenderism?

>>17418938
Elagabalus tried to find someone who would perform a sex change operation on him. You should read up on the guy. He's not exactly the type that most transwomen want representing them though.

It's probably marijuana use. I've never seen a lad who likes his beer become a tranny.

>>17418889
>>17418918
jannies please leave this thread up i need some context and discussion around this and i don't know where else to find it

>>17418941
Kek, I even had to google it before I got it

>>17418951
I don't see a problem with it. People have different sexual tastes and not everyone adheres to regressive christian conservative morality. I am not bothered by bisexuality in the slightest or gender expressions outside the prescribed norms.

daily reminder that people are VALID AND CUTE

>>17418882
Jan Morrison - Conundrum.

I have not read it but it was the book mentioned by Douglas Murray in 'Madness of Crowds' in the chapter on trans as one of the true genuine accounts of a transgender. He put it out there as opposition to the current cult of trans that is going on.

>>17418973
I'm an atheist and dislike Christianity.

>>17418951
you are spooked

>>17418882
>never seen before in history,

read a book

>>17418977
When you have to remind yourself daily that you are valid and cute, you may want to question whether or not you are actually valid and cute. You have been sucked into a cult.

>>17418994
You're...misguided, to put it politely.

>>17418889
>>17418918
Because it’s a thinly veiled off topic post.

>>17418962
Did he claim it as an ontological fact that he was a woman or not? That is what trannies do today.

>>17419015
youre the one who freaks out over people choosing how to live their lives or being attracted to something youre not

>>17418882
Thats a man face. And male shoulders and frame, which is deliberately camouflaged. The only women who look like that were Auschwitz guards.

>>17419027
I freak out over people hurting themselves. Are you not concerned when you see people in abusive relationships or cults? Do you not want to help them?

>>17418882
>It seems like they've just come out of nowhere, never seen before in history, and all of a sudden start making absurd claims like "I am a woman!", without justifying it. I'm looking for some arguments for it.
The techniques to give them secondary sex characteristics and chop their genitals to bits without dying from infection have only existed for the last 100 years or so.
These techniques have let them inch closer to the idea that they're actually women, emboldening them. Before this is was just plainly obvious they're mentally ill men/women.

>>17419033
that isnt what is happening. you just believe this because you are a bigot with backwards beliefs

someone post the letter this fag wrote to that bong university asking for a professor to be fired for wrongthink

>>17419033
Yes, I'm concerned about cult members, like Trump supporters and the alt right.

Olly pussi is the best pussi u jumped on this one quick bless up nigga

>>17419022
>thinly veiled

How can you know? OP sounds genuine in his questions, and what is a /lit/ board if not the quest for answers to societies many questionable decisions?

>>17419057
>and what is a /lit/ board if not the quest for answers to societies many questionable decisions?
It's about literature?

>>17419039
I'm sure the Skoptsy said the same thing to those who tried to help them. They're sick people, anon. They need help. They do not need enablers.

>>17419051
What if I were to tell you that the trans cult and trump/alt right cults are both bad.

>>17418882
Like fucking clockwork. This is the most predictable transition I’ve seen. He literally got fucked up so hard by his ex she made him not only bi but a tranny too lmao

>>17419066
i think youre the sick one who wants to control people and is ridden with bigotry, hate, and fear

>>17418882
so many breadtube types that are trans

>>17419062
Literature to help us understand these phenomena, yes? Must I spell it out for you in fridge magnets?

>>17419051
I hate Trump because he's a Zionist and a capitalist who doesn't care about our race or the environment. I don't really like the alt right either but the reasons would take longer to explain because it's a broad movement.

>>17418882

Yes, they were seen before in history, and there are famous accounts you can read about, if only you would fucking ask Google about "transgenders in history" instead of not so subtly baiting people into hating modern society.

What you won't find so easily however are ontological justifications for degeneracy. But by all means you can read about historical accounts and perhaps find what you are looking for: since you can't Google, I'll give you an author, look for Gilbert Herdt's Third Sex, Third Gender. You know it's good because trans activists don't really like it so much

>>17419074
Philosophy belongs on >>>/his/, read their sticky. They'd appreciate the philosophy behind trannies. Just because there's books on the subject doesn't make it /lit/.

>>17419071
Who are the other ones besides PhilosophyTube and Contrapoints? The only leftist youtubers I know are guys like Vaush, Hasan Piker, Hakim, etc. and they're not trans.

>>17419084
dude, there's only a handful of broads in the whole movement

>>17419092
Jim sterling as of late came out as trans, then there's a ton of no names

>>17418973
>to regressive christian conservative morality
you're just trying to disappoint your dad

>>17419070
Fear is probably accurate in the sense that I fear people getting hurt. The only people I hate are the ones responsible for the current state of things, the big CEOs, politicians, media figures, and academics who spread the sickness.

>>17419070
That's what cult members always say about outsiders trying to help them

>>17418924
This divine exaltation of birthing as an excuse to push for traditional gender roles is so gay. Why can't you be a man and just say you want a woman to give you kids

>>17418893
I also knew that Philosobytube was going to come out as trans. She really has copied everything that Contrapoints did, lmao, but still good for her!

>>17419104
Right wingers don't actually care about trans people. They constantly post slurs about them and mock them. Many revel in their misfortune and meme misleading suicide statistics to mock them

>>17419118
sorry this was meant for the pic in
>>17418909

>>17419069
I thought the same thing about the ex causing it. I've seen this happen in real life too. Tons of people start thinking they're trans after a bad break up. I don't know why.

>>17418882
Does PT make any good vids worth watching? I watched one of them once and it was pretty disappointing

>>17419121
lmao i dont think anyone actually believes that they care, they just want everyone to conform to their rigid gender norms and 1950s wasp america understanding of the world

I will just never understand why the most prominent transpeople are all MtF and why everyone seems to be OK with that. It's just mind boggling that you have men bullying/coercing women into defending men who are trying to pass as women.

>>17418956
It would be fine if it were a "third sex" thing. The issue is that many want to be seen as and referred to as M/F instead of existing as "T". If transpeople had a simple and straightforward pronoun system they stuck to, it'd be easy. But the issue is that it's not about taboo -- it's strictly about power. Before coming out, trans people feel powerless; but the process gives them a specific "new" feature to focus their attention on in the quest for power.

>>17418882
>It seems like they've just come out of nowhere, never seen before in history

You think this because you have no idea about transgenderism or history

>>17419121
I mean, sure, some people do that. I don't. I don't even use slurs.

>>17418973
but this has nothing to do with sexuality, this is promethean subversiveness. Most people are more disgusted by it than literal schizos running around the street and loudly talking to themselves. Until they address the possibility that something could be wrong with this view other than a nihilist "why not" and psychologizing their enemies they have no right to call it anything but a sect and bizarre ideology

>>17419121

>>17419139
If people were as disgusted by it as you claim, then criticizing them would be more acceptable. Society has become more accepting however and aware of the concept of gender.

>>17419135
Yeah, there are examples of schizophrenia in history too.

Have a look at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blanchard%27s_transsexualism_typology
The theory splits MTF transsexuals into 2 groups:
1) Feminine gay men
2) Men who get off on the fetish of having a female body

>>17419121
This. The right wing christfags ITT are so transparent. They pretend to be "concerned" so they can spew transphobic talking points but would not hesitate to tell this person to kill themselves in the next breath

>>17419139
Just like people used to be disgusted by women showing their ankles, and then by black people using the same shops as white people, and then by two men on a date. People are disgusted because they're socially conditioned to. It's culture and nothing more, and the only constant of culture is that it changes.

>>17419147
Not necessarily. Studies have shown many people continue to be disgusted by interracial relationships but will deny it and continue to support it.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/304491556_Yuck_You_Disgust_Me_Affective_Bias_Against_Interracial_Couples

>>17419148
And there are examples of persecution in history as well.

>>17419148
...What's your point? Nobody said schizophrenics came out of nowhere and never existed in history. It's akin to saying gay's never existed in history. They existed, they just hid, or weren't talked about.

good for her. im glad she is living her life

>>17419155
Why do you keep calling us Christfags? Most people who are on the extreme right or third position aren't Christian.

>>17419162
>It's akin to saying gay's never existed in history. They existed, they just hid, or weren't talked about.
they've always existed, this doesn't mean they should be tolerated

>>17418882
Sanity is insanity now, and vice versa. There's a great irony in having as your chief health officer a person who's insane, who claims to be something that he's clearly not. What "health" can someone like that provide, if he doesn't know the difference between health and illness? We truly are at the end of times.

>>17419167
ah, youre a nazi. my apologies. you both share the traditionalism

>>17418947
They seek out trannys and then are surprised when they find them, I live in the Bay Area and have met maybe 3 trans people in my life, probably seen under 100. Mental illness is really hitting the right just as bad as the left

>>17418882
It’s funny how /lit/ pendulum swings from essentially being a socialist /tttt/ colony to a /pol/-lite Tradcath outpost depending on the thread. This one seems in hot contention.

if theyre passable, why should i be concerned? gender is performative. if your performance is convincing, youre a girl to me

>>17419160
>>17419162
Just because it has a historical precedent doesn't mean it's a good thing or that the prevalence of it today isn't disproportionate to what it was historically. It's a social contagion. People are destroying their lives and society is allowing it in the name of tolerance. Of course, it's actually in the name of capitalism.

>>17419124
Test levels plummeting stress levels rising

>>17419186
>if theyre passable
Big ‘if’

>>17419186
>gender is performative.
how?

>>17419168
Well if they have always existed, and always will exist, what is the point of persecuting them? It's not something that someone chooses to be, so what is the rational reason to persecute them, other than you just don't like them?

>>17418952
>historically people have been mentally stable rational actors
Have been we reading a different copy of humans history? Human history is entirely composed of loons some just worse then others

>>17419200
Read Butler, pleb

I'd pound abby good. Trans women give the best head

>>17418882
Why is transition the solution rather than trying to get rid of the dysphoria? Why give in to the mental illness instead of curing it?

>>17419181
FIGHT
>FIGHT
FIGHT
>FIGHT
FIGHT
>FIGHT
FIGHT
>FIGHT

>there are unironic discord trannies itt
>mfw some of them will an hero within the year

>>17419204
>Well if they have always existed, and always will exist, what is the point of persecuting them? It's not something that someone chooses to be
All of these apply to pedophilia too, dipshit. I don't think we should "persecute" them, we should get them actually good mental help

>>17419204
>government won't pay for your sissy pills
>persecution

>>17419211
Not all trans people suffer from gender dysphoria. Gender dysphoria DOES get treatment.

>>17419186
can you perform a XX chromosome?

>>17419191
There are more open trans people now because it's culturally more acceptable, the same proportion of people will have felt this way, but not had the means or felt accepted to go ahead with it.

> in the name of capitalism
Ahh yes, with all the wealth hoarded by the few thousands of trans people in the country.

>>17419204
I'm not that anon but I don't want to persecute them, I want them to not be trans. I don't think the solution to their suffering is to transition.

>>17419157
the problem with it and the huge difference with other cultural conditioning is that trannies violate a universal law of lying and deception. People don't like lies and inauthenticity. If Empedokles imagines he is a god, says he is god, forces you to call him a god since you can't disprove he is one, then hates on you and calls you a bigot if you don't categorically acknowledge that he's a god, then what do you call that but a sect and delusion? The only way to prove he was a god was by jumping into Mount Edna.

>>17419217
im not a tranny, i just like jerking off to them

>>17419209
If you read Butler you should be able to answer him

>>17419209
>read butler, pleb

>>17419218
them being trannies, not pedos. pedos get the bullet

>>17419211
It’s the same reason we allow people with body integrity dysphoria to chop their own arms off. Oh wait, we don’t.

>>17419211
There is no cure right now probably, and the best treatment is to transition

>>17419191
So your historical precedence is valid but mine is not?

>>17419227
Gender and sex aren't the same thing. Gender refers to the behaviors and norms associated with a sex culturally. These are subjective and relative and can be shaped. Feminity and masculinity are not concepts that actually exist or are innate, but are shaped by society.

>>17419227
People hiding behind chromosomes really go down a road they don't want to.
Did you ever make a genetic test before you were labelled a boy? That's not a realistic way to run society. Just let trannies sort themselves out who the fuck cares?

>>17419200
The same way being white is performative. All yous gots ta do iz staht talkin like dis ‘nd u become a real nigga!

>>17419221
I assumed he was talking about gay people, but either way, "not tolerating" someone clearly implies persecution.

>>17419218
Pedophilia harms someone else, being trans doesn't.

>>17419217
see, this is precisely what im talking about
your right wingers christcucks pretend to care about our plights and struggles yet no one bats an eye about these types of assholes who laugh at and mock us
do you even know what it's like to be born in the wrong body? do you even know how much we fight and sweat and bleed to make our voices heard? to know that depending on where you go your life might be in danger? to be spat upon and ridiculed by virtually every society?
fuck you dude, only cowards punch down

there hasnt been any valid argument against transgenderism itt other than "it makes me uncomfortable" or larping appeals to tradition from far right incels. the future will keep progressing and people will be free to live how they wish and how they see themselves

>the best way to trest dypshoria is to pump someone with estrogen to a level that may cause heart problems and bone fragility, in some cases to turn the dick into a necrotic wound
How is this shit not the modern lobotomy.

>>17419204
>it’s not something someone chooses to be
Perhaps not explicitly, but you’re completely ignoring developmental environment.
>so what is the rational reason to persecute them, other than you just don't like them?
The trad argument is that they undermine the social structure; I.E. degeneracy, to ignore this argument is to be obtuse.

>>17419244
>Feminity and masculinity are not concepts that actually exist or are innate, but are shaped by society.
Then why do you need HRT?

>>17419131
some of them are really good. i liked her master and slave vid, or the one about abortion.

>>17419253
>degeneracy
thats not a rational argument

>>17418888
You have severe mental degeneracy and are a plague in our society and humanity.

>>17419247
ayo, true dat homie!
>>17419248
>Pedophilia harms someone else, being trans doesn't.
look around at what it is causing at the moment and say you believe that. It is causing a lot of grooming but even beyond that the 41% suicide attempt rate is "harm" enough being caused

>>17419247
You ain't neva gon be a nigga.

>>17418882
See Being and Time.
The Dasein precedes gender and sex.
/pol/tards BTFO. And that's good. We fuck those retards.

>>17419225
How can you be trans without experiencing gender dysphoria? I've heard people say this before but I've never understood it.

>>17419229
Trans people are disproportionately lower class but they make great defenders of capitalism because they reduce gender to a commodity and passionately fight against tradition, which is the real threat to capital today. The communist revolution is never coming. Anarchists and Marxists are not a serious threat to capital. What could actually hurt capitalism is a state which prioritizes something like nation, race, or religion above profit. Antifa are useful idiots for the rich and many of them are trans. If you become trans, your identity gets wrapped up in a progressive narrative that is pushed to shield liberal capitalism from something more fascistic.

Honest question are there any good books that explain this shit to someone who doesn’t get it at all?

>>17419260
That's nice, now tell me about your fetishes Mr. Clean

>>17419251
because the average person deals with laughter and mockery every day. it's the pecking order. but the average person doesn't demand a special space in that order, they just continue thickening their skin until they can shove their weight around.

>>17419254
Because that's not how doctors treat gender dysphoria. Literally google gender dysphoria

The ontological basis for transgenderism is the concept of gender, which must be distinguished from sex if one wishes to understand it correctly. Whereas sex is purely a scientific concept -- the biological line dividing males from females -- gender is a social construct based on the behaviours associated with each sex. "Woman" and "man" are social constructs describing the behavioural patterns of human females and males respectively.
For example, a female person in society will usually wear women's clothing, be fond of the colour pink, play with dolls when they are young, and act in a "womanly" manner. This has nothing to do with this female person's innate biological structure, but with their "womanliness", their adherence to the gender of "woman".
This "woman" gender is therefore a category that can be abstracted from the concept of sex. A person can act in a "womanly way", dress womanly, present as womanly, and think of themselves inwardly as a woman, without being biologically female. Such a person is called a transwoman.

>>17419186

Literally based on nothing

>>17419251
They barely even pretend to care. They're spending most of the thread just shitting on trans people.

>>17419251
>do you even know what it's like to be born in the wrong body?
How do you know this, exactly? You’ve never had the social experience of being a woman, certainly not the biological reality, so how would you know the feelings you felt were that of a woman? Before your transition, you were just a man, and all your experience up until that point was that of a man. Where does the woman come in? This essentialist argument is ridiculous.

>>17419211
In the 50s a bunch of "scientists" started doing research on sexual deviancy as well as promoting it as perfectly normal and even desirable. A decade later we had the sexual revolution and those ideas more or less became the norm.

>>17419252
>people will be free to live how they wish and how they see themselves
>implying this is the Good
Also, the self harm argument is the doozie here. Under normal circumstances we prevent people from harming themselves unnecessarily

>>17419288
and?

>>17419258
so is attempting to turn yourself into a woman when you're a dude, and then killing yourself because it's been 6 years since you've taken the funny pills and the surgery and you're still a balding piece of shit freakshow instead of Madoka or whatever you were scammed into believing

>>17419280
Yes it is lol? That guy literally described a sex change.

Gender just straight up isn't real. TERFs are right, anyone who doesn't identify with their biological sex is SEVERELY mentally ill. It's not even like being gay or something of the sort. Funnily enough, I used to be highly supportive of gays but the tranny agenda has convinced me they're mentally ill as well. If you'd want further evidence towards this opinion, I'd direct you no further than the AIDS outbreak thread on Salo Forums.

Trannies are severely mentally ill. It's not even a question, compared to other so-called mental illnesses it has a much more detrimental effect on one's life. Where the fuck is the schizophrenic representation? Why are there no schizophrenic senators? Looking at it from a statistics perspective, your likelihood of living a full, good like as a schizo is about the same as being trans. the 41% thing isn't a fucking joke.

>>17419292
its more harmful to not let them allow to live how they wish because it offends your notions of purity

>>17419246
Yes, it's called asking the doctor what sex the baby is gonna be

>>17419296
Please follow my advice about googling gender dysphoria

>>17419251
>do you even know how much we fight and sweat and bleed to make our voices heard
man, those dilation sessions sure do get intense

>>17419290
I'm aware of that. I'm asking the transfolx and their allies. Why transition instead of trying to cure the dysphoria?

>>17418947
That’s like asking why people can’t stop talking about bombs being dropped on you when you’re in the middle of a warzone. Transgenderism isn’t something you can ignore because it’s spreading and infecting our world and children

>>17419299
sexuality is not real: being gay or straight is a choice

It's literally all cope

>>17419301
The doctor goes by genitalia not by chromosomes. You do realise you're contradicting yourself right?

What are some good novels on the subject? The only ones that come to mind are Myra Breckinridge and Middlesex.

There's been an explosion of books about transgenderism recently, but most of it is YA, which is always junk.

>>17419231
Calling someone by the name they want to be called is about the bare minimum required in polite society. It's the equivalent of saying an old women still looks beautiful, or someone prefering to be called Dave rather than David. What's the difference between this, and calling someone the gender they identify themselves as, even if it's just out of politeness? Do you consolidate your friends when they're upset, or just give them total honesty in the name of adherance to your idea of total truth, always?

>>17419307
They have an agenda to push sexual freedom to the extreme, to the detriment of all actors involved.

>>17419300
Who mentioned purity? Anorexics want to be thin, but we try to prevent them harming themselves

>>17418977
Many people are invalid and ugly. That is the world that you live in and it would serve you well to accept that

i dont say this often but this is why we unironically need /pol/acks
debating tr00ns is beyond useless, you just need the surgery webms and the animu profile picture/real life face comparison to shut them up
these people are delusional, they can convince themselves they'll turn into some petite big booba fairy girl with enough peer pressure, words of reason are wasted on them

There isn't a decent argument against trannies ITT desu. All I'm getting is "i dont like it i think its gross" and typical conservative nonsense about "degeneracy". Nothing rooted in science or fact. I guess that isn't surprising though. If these people dealt in science, they wouldn't be right wingers.

>>17419316
not making demands on another actually takes priority in what is considered the bare minimum.

>>17418981
7

>>17419299
In IRL, you will find that there is no LGBT community. Each letter hates all the others. They just collectivized for political expediency.

Related note, I am convinced that all gays are pedophiles. Read about any gay authors lives and you will find that they raped children. Each and every goddamn one.

>>17419316
One is politeness and one is mental illness. If I said I want to be called Ruffy and get plastic surgery to look like a dog, would you respect this or would you express your concern that maybe I'm suffering from some kind of mental illness? Lots of people have believed they are animals in the past. Just look at the spirit animals of the Indians. I'm just like them!

>>17419331
shit bait

>>17419253
>Undermine the social structure

A social structure that totally disregards non-whites, non-males and non-straight people, so why should anyone who falls outide of these catagories care about that?

>>17419308
this is irrational paranoid garbage

“And as regards the buildings of the third kind, which were called 'anoroparionokimas,' they were erected, as I already told you, for the beings belonging to what was then called the 'middle sex,' whom our Mullah Nasr Eddin would call 'misunderstandings' or beings who are 'neither one thing nor the other.'

"Among these beings of the 'middle sex' were some of the male sex and some of the female sex.
"These were beings who, for various reasons, no longer had the possibility either of perfecting themselves or of serving Nature, they were, as our dear Mullah Nasr Eddin puts it in one of his sayings, 'Neither a candle for an angel, nor a poker for the devil. '
"Beings of the male sex were secluded in these houses for a certain time who, for some reason or other, were wholly deprived of the possibility of conscious contemplation, and beings of the female sex were secluded who either did not menstruate at all, or in whom menstruation occurred ab- normally, as were also those women who with regard to their sexual desires became transformed at certain periods into what are called 'khaneomenis' or, as our dear Mullah would say, into 'veritable mares in springtime. '
"The beings of the continent of Atlantis of that time were familiar with several definite bizarre symptoms by which these beings were recognized and confined in the anoroparionikimas.
"These symptoms could be recognized by the following particularities:
1 if a being believed in all sorts of 'balderdash',
2 if he began proving to others something he knew absolutely nothing
about, or was not quite sure of,
3 if he failed to keep his word of honor, or took an oath in vain,
4 and finally, if he showed a tendency to 'spy' on others and to be occupied
with 'took-soo-kef'
"But the most conclusive symptom of all was the appearance in a being of what was then called 'moyasul,' which your contemporary favorites consider as an illness and call 'hemorrhoids. '

"Beings with these symptoms were obliged to remain in these anoroparionikimas during the periods indicated by the beings around them, but they were under no compulsion to do anything, and existed as they pleased In regard to them there was only one purpose, which was that they
should neither meet nor speak with normal beings of the given locality.

"They were confined in these buildings because at certain periods of the month, according to the prevailing ideas, on account of their various 'taints,' their 'emanations' interfered with the quiet and regular existence of beings
surrounding them.

GI Gurdjieff’s “Beelzebub’s Tales to His Grandson,” Chapter 43

>>17419121
>my entire view of the “right wing” comes from shitposters on /pol/

>>17419331
>If these people dealt in science, they wouldn't be right wingers.
This is hilarious coming from the side that says race doesn't exist.

>>17419264
What is it causing? Don't just give airy statements that you think sound true, who, other than the person who is trans, is affected by people becoming trans?

i'd like to see some arguments for transgenderism that aren't cartesian. i support trans issues I guess, like I'm not against trannies and I'd stick up for one, but truthfully I find the whole thing a little nebulous. if you wanna say i'm just supportive of trans rights because it's the "good" thing to do, you're entirely right. but who really gives a shit, most people that are against trannies have no reason or their reasoning is like "this means the whole world is gonna turn tranny!!!" there's an exaggerated amount of trans representation in shit rn but that will level off, just like gay representation leveled off after it became a norm

>>17419339
Yeah, you surely care about LGBT people's well being and don't just want to control them or oppress them. This man is just a concerned citizen.

>>17419316
Here's the thing: In real life and in necessary online situations, I WILL address them by their pronouns and name. It's not by choice though, it's simply a survival mechanism. I'm not going to ruin my fucking social life by not playing into the trannies' weird fetishes. It's all it is, a fucking fetish. If i have an ageplayer in my social circle, should I be obligated to talk to them like a baby or toddler? Fuck no. Same goes for trannies.

>>17418882
Is this book any good?

>>17419281
how can you get to the a priori behaviors of each gender if you only have empirical data from "social constructs"? So the only way to break your gender concept is by adopting another made up concept, transitioning to the female concept etc., never actually reaching the true essence. Then why would you change at all other than for the subversive "change for change's sake"?

>>17419314
Genitalia which is determined by...

>>17419331
Throwing the chess pieces to the floor and tutting around the board like the proverbial pigeon declaring victory doesn’t mean you won.

>>17419303
Not him but in the UK at least, treatment under the NHS for adults experiencing gender dysphoria is to transition. No psychological treatment attempts, just counselling to help through the process of tranditioning.

>>17419344
keep fighting the rainbow resistance brother
amazon, google, facebook, twitter, netflix, twitch, cnn, mnsbc, wapo, the guardian, hbo, wall street journal, hollywood and more are all on your side fighting against the system

>>17419354
What do you think of my argument? >>17419281

>>17419331
They seek to control others to enforce some idealized image of the "good ol days" and ultraconservative heteronormativity. It's extremely blatant.

>>17419342
I would not care if you wanted to get surgery to get a dog, its' your life and doesn't affect me in any way. And yeah, if I worked with you or you served me in a shop or something, I would call you whatever name you wanted to be called, because it would be rude and unnecessary not to.

>>17419362
There are xx people with penises and there are xys without penises. The fact that you enjoy being ignorant doesn't make you right.

>>17419373
40%

>>17419178
Yeah, I think this is probably the case desu
>>17419308
That's a load of horseshit. I would bet my house on you never having met any trans people

>>17419365
Post a rational argument against transgenderism that isn't rooted in your own personal discomfort. I have yet to see any.

>>17419374
Why don't you care about people ruining their lives?

>>17419371
Probably because they're ran by smarter people than you're average anti-trans twitter and 4chan poster

>>17419344
Because last time you tried something similar we almost gassed you into non-existence.

>>17419359
Bless you for trying to get this back on track to literature, though I feel the train has derailed and is plummeting down the mountain

>>17419376
Your argument is analogous to saying, "Well, there are people born without legs, and those that get their legs amputated through life for whatever reason. That means humans aren't bipedal!"

You're wrong. Women have XX chromosomes, men have XY chromosomes. There are disorders, yes, but that's why it's called a disorder.

>>17419381
jebus made adam n eve not adam and steve alright?

>>17419267
very true

>>17419376
Chopping half of your arm and making a flesh cylinder doesn't make a penis.

>>17419385
forcing them to live conforming to a lie instead of closer to their true self is more harmful. as our culture becomes more tolerant, technology advances, and transgenderism is more normalized people will feel more comfortable to live as they wish. you are seeing it happen already, and you cant stop it :)

>>17419389
>we tried

>>17419381
Why is transition the solution rather than trying to get rid of the dysphoria itself through therapy? If you think dysphoria is an unnecessary prerequisite for being trans, how does that work?

>>17419387
ok so these people hate trans people and non-whites but are also smarter than anti-trans people so they support trans people and non-whites?

I haven't been here on this site in years. I can't believe most of you are tranny supporters now. Crazy

>>17419372
I think it's good. The other guy that responded to you seems to be missing the point - this is obvious throughout, but glaringly so when he says "essence", your argument purposefully avoids the pitfalls of "essence" and such other idealistic nonsense.

>>17419393
No it's not. You're running in circles. Did you ever get a dna test that confirms you have 46 xy?

>>17419385
I do, I want people to live the life they want to live, and if that means becoming trans they should be able to. If so many people in society weren't so hostile and dismissive of them, they would be a lot happier and likely wouldn't have their lives "ruined"

>>17419380
Ironically the only trans person I know well is a Mexican conservative FTM dude, loves lifting, guns and is catholic just like every other conservative Mexican dude I’ve met. If most of /pol/ talked to him without knowing he was trans they’d call him based lol

>>17419381
I'm not a materialist and I believe that the body is the soul's image. There is no possibility that the two get mixed up. Since the argument for transgenderism is purely ontological this is valid.

>>17418882
Even though transgenderism might be valid, I still think that I will never accept a Trans person to be a woman, ever, intuitively. It's this dichotomy between being (girls) and becoming (Trans girls) that's fucking with my head. The fact that 90% of transgenders do not pass reinforces my intuition.

>>17419399
Meds schizo.

>>17419389
You've probably never had a physical confrontation in your life. I'm not gay or trans or anything anyway.

>>17419422
I agree with you

>>17419414
Those are the same few people, they make it seem like their ideology is prevalent, but nobody buys it and in the end they are left alone and unhappy. There is no point in talking with them, they are either mentally ill or in a cult

>>17419405
I can't wait until our society tolerates unironic otherkin crazies. That is going to be the funniest shit yet. It can't last forever though. Do you really think this stuff makes our civilization stronger? Maybe you think it makes it more kind and fun but stronger? I doubt that. If the west falls, China or Russia will fill that power vacuum and I doubt they will be as tolerant as we have been.

*TING TING TING*
LADIES AND GENTLEMEN I WOULD LIKE TO PRESENT AND EXCERPT FROM MY LASTEST WORK, WHICH IS NEARING COMPLETION - IT'S A DEEP, INSIGHTFUL SOCIAL COMMENTARY ON OUR DEAR WESTERN CIVILIZATION, PLEASE ENJOY
AHEM
>FUCK NIGGERS
>FUCK KIKES
>FUCK HOMOS
>FUCK CHINKS
>FUCK TRANNIES
>AND FUCK JANNIES
THAT WILL BE ALL, THANK YOU THANK YOU!

>>17419409
transitioning is more effective because it solves the root of the problem (a misalignment between body and brain). the solution isnt forcing someone to adhere to masculine gender norms if they do not feel comfortable doing so, this will just create more tension and problems. you can also transition without genital reassignment.

>>17419422
This
>>17419428
Your personal religious beliefs are not a rational argument

>>17419414
>>17419447

You clearly haven't been on 4chan that long. For the majority of this site's life it's users were Zeitgeist watching anti-authoritarians who were either lib-left or lib-right. Why do you think people here used to wear Guy Fawkes masks and Anonymous was anti-capitalist?

>>17419458
What is the suicide rate like for those who do transition?

>>17419281
Gender Critical femimism destroys this line of thought

>>17418882
Trans people have always existed - they have just been disreguarded through history.

>>17419381
"Woman" means biological female and it has done for the entirety of human history. Trannies want to change it to suit their own perverted ends. Some examples to provoke cognitive dissonance in you:

If one can change gender, why cannot one change race? Sure, there are biological underpinnings for race, as with sex, but we can differentiate biological race from the social construct of race. You need to be biologically black to have dark skin and so on, but anyone can "act black", speak in ebonics, listen to hip-hop, and so on. Therefore, I, a white boy, can become just as black as a biologically black person!

We call grannies "old women" even though they do not abide by the concept of woman usually expressed by the trannies, ie. girly, young, and so on. Why would we do this if "womanhood" merely means gender?

We call our dogs and cats "he" and "she", depending on their sex, even though they do not abide by the social constructs of gender. Why?

if the technology continues to advance and the practice becomes culturally more acceptable, i honestly see no issue. if the main issue with trans women is they dont pass or the surgeries, then if the tech develops to the point where trans women are physically indistinguishable or extremely close to cis women, and culturally they are treated like women, what is the problem?

>>17419458
what does misalignment between body and brain mean and is there proof

>>17418882
It’s literally just faggots with a fetish for wanting to become treated and used as a girl by another man.

>>17419481
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/05/180524112351.htm

>>17419481
>is there proof
No. Gendered brain is debunked

>>17419408
And it was the white man who saved you. Do you think the Jewish nation would exist now if not for the personal sacrifice of the Slavic peoples, as well as Western Europeans and Americans?

>>17418973
>I am not bothered by bisexuality in the slightest or gender expressions outside the prescribed norms.
This has nothing to do with it. In fact, transgenderism as it exists is nothing but enforcing stereotypical gender roles. Transsexuals, which are few and far between, are fine and have a real medical condition such as prenatal exposure to excess estrogen, but transgenders just do it because they like dresses. It’s regressive. Be a terf

>>17418888
Who is it?

>>17419458
This. You can't just tell someone to "man up", load them up with xanax, and think that'll fix everything. They will still feel out of place

>>17419482
sounds based

>>17418882
>>17418882
My number one problem with trans stuff is the whole essentialist ‘I feel like a woman/man/whatever’ argument they make for themselves. You live most of your life as the gender you were born as, being treated socially such, and certainly living with the biological reality of that, so how would you know what being the other gender would ‘feel’ like? You’ve never had the experience whatsoever. Your thoughts don’t mean shit in a social context, and your feelings of being ‘born in the wrong body’ don’t make any sense because the body you were born in is the only body you know; how the hell do you rationally infer that you were meant to be in another body? Your conception of what being the other gender is based entirely on your perception of what it means, influenced by culture, not any actual experience. It’s unsurprisingly that most trans people seem to go for the stereotypical facets of their adopted gender; the MtFs go for make-up, dresses, and high pitched voices, the FtMs go for short hair, pants, and pissing standing up. But this is all performance, where is the essence? Where does that come from? And why even both, if it’s just what on the inside that counts? It feels to me the same as ‘other kin’ types who think the fact they call their hands ‘paws’ and like to howl at the moon makes them a wolf—there is something clearly missing here.

Now I’m not someone who goes out of their way to hate, becuase I just don’t care that much. I’ll call someone by their preferred pro-nouns if they have them, and whatever, it’s basic shit. And I’ve only ever met one person like this irl anyways. But I’d sincerely like to know, if you ‘feel’ like a woman/man what the fuck are you feelings based on, since you’ve only ever been what you’re born and raised as, and secondly, why go for the stereotypical images of your adopted gender if it’s all internal feeling that makes you feel the way that you do?

>>17419489
well damn
>>17419505
if a man wants to be a bit feminine, why cant they just do that without saying they are a woman?

>>17419495
Why are so many of them so ungrateful? I've met good Jews but there are a number of high profile Jews who seem to hate America, Britain, and Russia despite these nations rescuing them from the holocaust. I don't get it. If I was in their position, I would consider these nations to allies for eternity.

>>17419495
Slavs aren’t white, plenty of non whites in America and Western Europe. Fucking revisionist /pol/ fags, I swear your brains have been rotted

>>17419389
> we
You did fuck all you stupid neet cunt

>>17419515
>if a man wants to be a bit feminine, why cant they just do that without saying they are a woman?

they can and some do. but theres more to it than just that. they feel misaligned with the sex they were assigned at birth, not just like they are still a man but a feminine one, but that they are not a man.

>>17419514
Imagine applying this to a biologically male boy who'd been raised as a girl by his parents even though he didn't think of himself as a girl and wanted to be a boy.

>>17419515
They would still get called a faggot and a degenerate.

>>17419458
this is cartesian and stupid

>>17419477
Based and commonsensepilled

>>17419489
Except this doesn’t mean much. There’s more to conscious thought than the physical structure of the brain.

>>17418888
>>17418911
>>17418947
>>17418973
>>17418977
>>17419027
>>17419039
>>17419070
>>17419121
>>17419133
>>17419135
>>17419147
>>17419155
>>17419157
>>17419173
>>17419186
>>17419209
>>17419210
>>17419251
>>17419252
>>17419258
>>17419288
>>17419316
>>17419331
>>17419344
>>17419356
>>17419373
>>17419381
>>17419408
>>17419458
>>17419477
trannies are fucking ugly
you will never be real women
you should probably end it

>>17419538
this rarely happens. its more likely for a trans person to be raised as their assigned sex at birth instead of what they feel inside

>>17419514
the "essence" you're referring to doesn't exist. there is no essence. with that in mind, your argument falls apart.

>>17419514
Most trans people I know have only used that "argument" as a handy metaphor, but acknowledge that it doens't have much logical basis and there are other ways to explain the trans experience. Not all trans people experience dysphoria either.

>>17419529
Because they don't like white people any way and they've been taught from birth that they're God's chosen people. It's indoctrinated narcissism. They're not grateful because "you're SUPPOSED to do that goy!"

>>17419515
>if a man wants to be a bit feminine, why cant they just do that without saying they are a woman?

A feminine gay guy has just other gay guys in his dating pool. A passing transwoman has a lot of straight guys in her dating pool.

Ignoring the culture war shit briefly and just looking at it from a legal perspective, all the things the gays demanded (and have got) are pretty much nothing of consequence beyond themselves. I could not give a shit if they have equality under the law because it affects literally nobody except homos. The only things that do are gay marriage which again is basically a nothingburger despite being very faggy, and adopting kids which is a terrible idea, but so is adopting kids to single mothers.

By contrast the trannies basically want to radically change the legal structure to upend:

>the meaning of gender and sex
>gender roles
>sexuality and consent
>freedom of speech
>autonomy of thought
>freedom of scientific pursuit
>sport
>the basic dialectic of the last 300 years on what the meaning of 'is' is

They basically want to tear down the basic legal assumptions revolving around the sexes that we've established over the last 1000 years and replace them with a bunch of nonsensical rules that nobody really understands and is fundamentally up to the whim of whatever individual troon decides to interpret them.

It's a completely different set of arguments, but it pretends to be the same thing as the gay one - that they are fundamentally the same they just (fuck the same sex/are a different gender than their sex) and so just ignoring sex when it comes to relationships administratively solves all the problems. But it's not, because the tranny agenda is basically holding all of society hostage to ensure that nobody is allowed to disrupt some autogynephile's full-time sexual fantasy.

>>17419530
America was 90% white in the 1940s and had an immigration system in place that was designed to maintain the ethnic makeup and nordic character of the country. Nonwhites made up an even tinier portion of Britain and France's population. The Soviet Union did have a sizable Turkic population though so I can give you that. They were still around 75% white though if you count Slavs and Balts.

>>17419542
That's a cultural problem then. Not every man has to be some aggro douche into hunting and football and beer. Maybe we shouldn't call every man who doesn't fit into the stereotype of a macho man a girly faggot then so they don't get attracted to transgender rhetoric.

>>17419551
>Press X to doubt

bait threads like this get 200+ replies within an hour while ones on actual literature languish

>>17419538
I know what case you’re specifically talking about, and it’s no where near as simple as you made it out to be.

>>17419549
Why did people take my example of Elegabalus as a defense of transfolx? He was one of the worst and craziest of all Roman Emperors?

>>17419462
then neither is the essentialist theory that you can be "born into a wrong body".

Transgenderism results from the pressures of capitalism. Through the ruthless exploitation of the worker by the bourgeoisie, the worker internalizes the idea that he is just an expendable unit, interchangeable with a machine, a woman, or even a negro. Soon enough, under the mindless toil of day to day labor, the constant humiliation of his condition, and the process of alienation, the worker is no longer connected to masculinity, femininity, or even humanity itself. It is at this point that the idea of chopping his dick off no longer seems insane to the worker, but rather a release from the economic bonds that so hopelessly enslave him.

>>17419561
The worst ones aren't even religious. They're ethnically Jewish but atheists like Judith Butler or Noel Ignatiev.

>>17419568
Funniest thing is Jews did literally nothing. They were the ones with most reason to fight against the Germans and yet their "resistance" was pathetic. What a cowardly nation.

>>17419569
>Not every man has to be some aggro douche into hunting and football and beer
yeah we know that unless you live in alabama or some redneck shithole. theres a middle ground being some overcompensating redneck dipshit and a james charles looking fairy who paints his nails

>>17419559
THATS LITERALLY MY POINT. I’m critiquing the argument that an essence exists because if it did, where they hell did the opposite gender essence come from? Actually read critically, Jesus Christ.
>>17419560
But then what is the other argument then? And why transition if you’re not feeling dysphoria?

>>17419564
>sexuality and consent
in what sense
>autonomy of thought
bro what
>the basic dialectic of the last 300 years on what the meaning of 'is' is
so did heidegger

>>17419569
I hate all of those things and have no desire to transition. I would be called an "effeminate" man probably because I prefer reading, art, music, etc but I don't feel any gender conflicts. I think it's deeper than just that.

>>17419121
Correct, I hope trannies fucking kill themselves, not because they're disgusting, degenerate and propagate this degeneracy, but because you will never be a woman and you should roll the dice again.

Trannyism is gnosticism is materialism is satanism.

>>17419586
Well yeah. The hyper-religious jews don't like whites either but they also think their problems are their fault. Several Orthodox rabbis have literally said that Hitler was sent by God to remind the Jews of their required obeisance to Him, because Jews in the Weimar Republic were committing all kinds of sins like sexual immorality and worshipping money.

The atheist Jews are still indoctrinated into the "We're superior", but since they don't believe in God they also don't believe in the "We're punished because God chose us and we've been bad" Deuteronomistic moral system. So they just explain everything bad that happened to Jews ever as being entirely everyone else's fault.

>>17419592
buttblasted homo falls for the bait once again

idgaf about any of this shit i would fuck traps and femboys
im not going to let religious and fascist bullcrap tell me what to do with my dick

>>17419631
>Gnosticism is materialism
cringe
>Materialism is satanism
based

>>17419549

>>17419642
i feel that, even if ur not gay partying in lgbt clubs is a hell of lot more fun that partying in some cheesy straight club full douchebags tryna look hard

If we use the trannies logic, we can justify "transitioning" to anything.

>Oh I "feel inside" that I am a black man, ergo I will paint my skin black and walk around saying nigger. Unis must give me affirmative action.

>Oh I "feel inside" that I am an old man not a young one, ergo I will get plastic surgery and expect to be treated as one.

>Oh I "feel inside" that I am a mythical elf, ergo I will get surgery to look like one and everyone should act like I am.

Literally no difference in thinking between these positions and the ones the trannies express. Just because you "feel inside" you are something doesn't mean you are. That's literally what every child realises once he grows up enough to no longer play pretend.

>>17419679
One of them in this thread said they would accept someone transitioning to a dog. They really are that...tolerant.

>>17419574
The reason is that everyone has a take on this subject, while a thread about specific books or authors will only get the people who have read that book or author.

>>17419586
>Judith Butler
didn't even know that. Bros... I wasn't antisemitic in the past, but I've recently started to Early Life whenever I see someone who writes subversive shit and it's never failed once. Can someone give an argument against this?

>>17419679
Well no. Gender is a social construct. Race, age and species are not.

>>17419514
Because it's an ex post facto explanation concocted to explain it in more polite company. The reality of the situation is different. For male-to-female trans, pornography overconsumption leads to autogynophilia among romantically unsatisfied men. This isn't well studied in academia because it's obviously become taboo to say something like this, but the sudden, widespread availability of pornography during a child's formative years is beginning to show its impact.

In general, it's also advantageous to be lower on the privilege ladder in many social circles. In reality, the benefits of things like "white privilege" and "male privilege" are nebulous at best for lower status and lower class individuals, but the benefits of being part of the "oppressed" classes are real and tangible in the form of emotional support, protection from criticism, and attention in general. If a low status, financially poor male is sad, lonely, or attention starved they can go fuck themselves. On the other hand, a moderately passable transgirl in any of those states is likely to find lots of support. Sure, they'll find scorn in many online communities like 4chan, but there are many more communities where people will only validate them and their decisions, and any opinion to the contrary would not be allowed to be expressed.

I see no reason to infringe on someone's bodily autonomy or individual freedoms. Gender transitioning/HRT can resolve some mental anguish that people have and make them more aligned with their inner self. It could be what someone needs to feel at peace. It is their life, their body, their mind, their experience on this Earth that they have power over. Who are you to tell them how to live or who they are? If they feel more complete, whole, or fulfilled living as a woman then it is not my position to tell them otherwise. I am personally not transgender. I am just a normal guy. I am a believer in human freedom and individual rights however. I believe in expression and letting people make choices for themselves. I will respect their right to live as they choose regardless of any of my personal beliefs or opinions, and I ask them to respect my individual rights. Science will further advance to enable these people to live how they desire and get closer to the ideal life they wish to live, and I wish to allow them to take that path if they feel it is what they need for their lives to be complete.

>>17419707
wait, I thought race WAS a social construct...

>>17419707
Progs are trying to make political whiteness a thing. Cope, seethe, and dilate.

>>17419707
So race is founded in biology then? Are you a race realist or something?

>>17419707
All of the arguments used to say gender is a social construct can be used to say almost anything is.

Yes, to be biologically black you need to have black DNA. Just as to be biologically female you need to have a female biological makeup. But the characteristic BEHAVIOURS of black people can be separated from their biology. For example a white man like I can listen to hip-hop, say nigga, wear characteristically black clothing, and -- in short -- act like a black man, without being biologically black. This part of "blackness" is a social construct, technically. Therefore I can use the same logic as trannies and turn myself into a black man by painting my skin black and so on. What do you think my local black barbershop would have to say about that?

>>17419549
i agree with u anon great minds think alike

>>17419700
I'm the person who wrote that. I don't think of myself as antisemitic. I recognize that Jews are more likely to be involved with subversive shit as a result of their history as a foreign, persecuted group making them drawn to "liberation" and "equality" movements and their high verbal IQ but I don't blame Jews as a whole for the actions of some Jews. There are plenty of non-Jewish people who are involved with the destruction of our civilization and you miss the bigger picture if you fixate on the Jews. It's good to understand the JQ but if you get obsessed with it and start blaming all Jews for the actions of some of their co-ethnics, you're making a mistake. There are also good Jews out there likeÉric Zemmour, Paul Gottfried, or Ron Unz. I'm not sure if that's the kind of argument you were looking for but that's my take on the JQ.

>>17419707
Yes, they fucking are.

>Race
What makes an Aryan? What makes someone Hispanic? If one of my ancestors is Spanish, then I can make a legitimate claim that I'm Spanish. What separates the castes the India? It's all a fucking construct, that has real, biological basis in fact, but the demarcation lines of where one race ends and another begins are constructs.

>Age
People DEFINITELY have a mental age. No, I'm not going to argue that a mature 5 year old should be able to fuck a 20 year old, but there definitely is a legal and moral standard on what constitutes someone's mental age. If I, as a 27 year old man, tried to fuck a downie with the mental age of a 10 year old I'd be ridiculed, justifiably so. That mental age is a social construct, it's why we can refer to someone as being either mature or immature.

>Species
I can't come up with a good argument for this, but the point where species and subspecies differentiate is fuzzy. Same argument applies from race.

>>17419592
>And why transition if you’re not feeling dysphoria?
Transitioning does not necessarily entail surgery. It's a complex topic, but if you're genuinely interested in learning about it, Contrapoints has some good videos on the subject (including dysphoria and her experience of it).

>>17419707
It's retard to believe that one can be born in the wrong body, but not in the wrong race.

>>17419738
Isn't this a good thing? Political whiteness sounds good to me.

>>17419733
>>17419755
>>17419757
It is a social construct in the sense that there is no genetic basis for race. However, this social construct has had very real consequences throughout history which are still felt to this day. You do not get to take on these consequences when you have not experienced them throughout your life. Unless you are POC transitioning to another POC "race", or Italian transitioning to German.

>>17419679
Why would you care if someone wanted to pretend to be an elf?

Don't worry anons. In 50 years the new muslim majority Europe will put an end to this degeneracy.
We are witnessing the fall of a civilization, but we can welcome the rise of the new one.
Allahu akbar.

>>17419772
I guess you are right about age. Transitioning from one age to another should be acceptable.

>>17418882
all the trannies in this tread should kill them selves because ur never going to look like a woman, but only a some thing that can be only described as a mutant you know what become a tranny so you cant pollute the population with ur retarded ideas

>>17419787
Women have had "social consequences" throughout history as well.

>>17418882
Im fucking a tranny tomrrow lol come at me

>>17419787
This is so fucking hilarious. So you have no actual problem with a white man transitioning to a black man except for the fact that you think "white men don't deserve the victimhood status that black men possess"? LMFAO. But you literally believe "trans women are women", ergo if I transition to a nigger I AM A NIGGER, therefore I am not a "WHITE MAN gaining the precious victimhood status", but a genuine, fo-real, certified, muthafuckin' NIGGA, who is genuinely oppressed like blacks are, fool.

Besides, if you're a feminist you can apply this same argument to trannies.

most of these posts are opinions rather than valid arguments against why people shouldnt at least have the option to do this

>>17418882
hahahahahaha

>>17419447
Fair point, I wonder what the stats would be about the ideology on this site
There is a lot of degenerates that seem into it but could be LARPing

>>17419468
I was here between around 15-19 years old, quite a few years ago now. I'm left but fail to see how a sane person can support trans people, this view from both left and right posters seemed to be the prevailing sentiment amongst the boards when they were mentioned iirc. I do not remember this level of support (or samefagging of support).

>>17419798
I wouldn't care. If they claimed it as a fact, like trannies do, that they are an elf, I would tell them they are wrong. Then if they tried to have an argument with me about it I would engage them. I would begin to hate them if they had a prominent political movement trying to force everyone to "accept them as an elf", however.

>>17419251
dilate

>>17419815
So have men with gender dysphoria. White men with racial dysphoria have not existed throughout history. They chose their white privilege over and over again, until it became "fashionable" to be black, through the capitalistic commodification of black culture.

>>17418973
>regressive christian conservative morality
Yes, traditional Christian morality is the regressive one in this case goy.

trannies should die they are never going to look like a women of a man they are only going to look like some thing that is described as a mutant some shit the at was written in a love craft book if you want to became a tranny u should so you don't pollute the population with ur retarded ideas when ur were molested as a kid

>>17418888
>Let's be 100% honest here: she is cute
What? You serious?

>>17419823
imo its a bit fucked up and weird mate. seems like fetish stuff or delusions most cases, and then hormone/body adjustments seem unnatural. makes me queasy lads. i wouldnt be able to do it. seeing something that looks like a woman but with a dick or man voice would confuse me. cause a sense of unease. the simulacrum of woman


but yeah man i dont care if they do it or not, it just shouldnt be promoted in schools. they should have the option legally i guess, but i wouldnt do it or encourage it in the culture

What makes a trans woman a woman?

"That's how they choose to identify"

That's it? If there are no other preconditions then "being a woman" means nothing.

>>17419847
What has this got to do with anything? You believe it is true that trans women are women, and since the same logic can be used for transracial people as for transgenders, you should believe that transniggas are niggas (and also heckin valid!).

The reason you refuse to do that is because your beliefs are not based on a reasonable framework but on pure ideology.

>>17419875
>"being a woman" means nothing
Precisely. "being a man" also means nothing.

>>17419847
White men have joined native american or African tribes in the past. Is that close enough? What about some dark-skinned Sicillian who tried to pass as black in Harlem? I'm sure there was at least one who did that at some point.

oh I am laffin

Society needs YOU! Become a TERF today!

>>17419881
>>17419884
Name the psychological condition underpinning racial dysphoria. It has never been documented in the history of psychology, or even humanity.

transgender people are only going to become more prominent in the future now that there is less stigma and more access to treatments for dysphoria. you know this is true and you cant change the course of progress.

>>17419896
We can come up with one just like we did with gender dysphoria. I'm sure there have been a lot of transracial people who just hid their true identity for fear of persecution.

>>17419842
>I was here between around 15-19 years old, quite a few years ago now

There's no point telling us how old you was, if we don't know how old you are now. This doesn't let us know how long you have been on here. I've been on 4chan over 11 years, and while people never really spoke about trans people, as it wasn't a issue commonly spoke about generally, the website was generally left-wing in the anti-government, opensource, rebelious nerd sense. There was also a lot of Ron Paul supporters.

>>17419896
I thought that not all transgenders were dysphoric?

>>17419722
people are also free to perform abortions, kill themselves, cut off their ears to look like Van Gogh, grow 10 inch fingernails, cease to shower and to perform other personal hygiene, drink their own piss, eat themselves to death weighing 700 lbs, etc... doesn't mean that others have to respect or encourage it. How many suicides could have been prevented if nobody had set the idea of transgenderism into the world? If you don't have the idea that you could literally be a woman, just that your secret fetish is to dress up and pretend to be one, and that society is oppressing you, you probably wouldn't end up killing yourself over it just because you identify all of your mental problems with this scapegoat of being a woman born into the wrong body, deluding yourself that you can't be happy and fulfilled if you don't change it. It's like incels with women, they delude themselves that their life will be ultimately fulfilled once they find a gf to have sex with.

>>17418882
its funny how you could crop out just the eyes and still everyone would spot it as a man. trannies are just BTFO by nature so hard lmao

>>17419514
based and also 100% agreed

>>17418888
/fpbp also checked

>>17418882
As far as my knowledge of history goes, transgenderism hasn't really existed. People who didn't feel assured in their sex (overwhelmingly men) were often consigned to a third "in-between" gender. This is not inherently unnatural IMO - they often fulfilled very important roles to the spiritual aspects of society. For instance, in many pantheistic religious cultures, priests took on the role of both male and female (androgynous) to represent a sort of synthesis between chaos and order, a state of being shared by the deities they worshipped. In Medieval Europe, as far as I remember it, eunuchs meant not only anyone who had been castrated but also anyone who took a vow of chastity (i.e. monks) and were considered as distinct to a man. Think also castratos, boys who were castrated as to preserve their voices for singing church music. A similar thing was found in Ancient Rome - such as the vestigial virgins. This is not a problem for me because spiritual and social mores meant their could express their sexuality in a controlled environment where they could also exert themselves to some greater cosmic purpose.

This is in utter contrast to trannyism today: it is totally materialistic, totally narcissistic, totally theatrical, and without the prior socio-religious mores totally unregulated. It is frankly a fetish, that is not only celebrated but forced upon children, who - impressionable as they are - imitate this behaviour. Seriously, it was almost totally unheard of for girls to be trans before the past 50 or so years, this was almost exclusively a phenomenon in boys. But now impressionable girls want to transition bc of Tumblr.

And frankly, when I watched the vid of Oliver Thorne's coming out I was in disbelief. Does anybody really think his whole end monologue was sincere? The guys an actor (a mediocre one I might add) and his performance is not convincing for a minute.

>>17418947
Because they are utterly obsessed with it. It's hard to explain if you haven't talked with them enough, but it basically takes up 90% of their mental state.

what's up with all these redditards? are we being raided

>>17419913
Gender dysphoria has been well-documented for decades. However, I am willing to consider the idea of transracialism once racial justice has been achieved.

>>17419917
I believe there is a degree of dysphoria in almost all cases of transgenderism. However, that is not really necessary for transition if we are going to move forward with the abolition of gender.

>>17419896
Why does it matter? You're making an ontological claim. You're saying that trans women are women. The reasoning you use to justify this claim can be replicated word-for-word for transniggas. That means if hypothetically a person existed (a wigger, for example) who genuinely "felt inside" that he was a nigga, and wanted to present as one, he would literally be one. This is something so insane that you're blushing to accept it, but it is a direct consequence of your view.
I don't know what "psychological documentation" or "historical precedence" has to do with any of it.

>>17419945
> vestigial virgins
jfc

>>17419914
>the website was generally left-wing in the anti-government, opensource, rebelious nerd sense.
I know

I'm 23 but I don't use this site anymore was just interested what you guys would be talking about since I'm over how woke social media is

>dissapointed

>>17419950
We are just now beginning to document transracialism. Why not start embracing it now? Wouldn't it help in our quest for racial justice by reducing the number of whites?

>>17419965
Vestal Virgins, sorry nigga

passing or not?

>>17419922
Not all actions are agreeable or something I would partake in, but I firmly believe in autonomy and sovereignty of the individual. They live with their choices.

The transgenderism thing I wouldn't compare to some of the behaviors you listed because I think its rooted moreso in a conflict of the person's inner perception of themselves and a decision of how they wish to live life. It's less rooted in something like violence or self harm and more a psychological disposition. They should get treatment, but what if medication or psychotherapy alone does not fix these feelings?

If conventional treatments aren't able to fix it as effectively as transitioning and they decide to transition, I'm not sure what else they can do. If they have the ability to transition to women effectively while increasing their quality of life, I think they should be able to. The quality of life is more likely to increase the more passable they are, and if tech continues to progress then they will be able to resemble their chosen gender more. If the tech progresses further and makes transgender people more capable of passing, then a lot of the harm may be mitigated.

>>17419950
Racial justice is not quantifiable so I don't know what you mean by it or why it matters. Gender justice is not necessarily achieved otherwise feminism wouldn't be a thing anymore. You're willing to accept that you can be transgender without being gender dysphoric therefore we can disregard the comment about transracialism needing to be based on a medically recognized condition.

>>17419995
Passing, no one would assume anything is unusual.

Anyone else remember that Catullus wrote a poem in 50 BC about a Greek MtF who went to Turkey, cut his dick off in a crazed frenzy, had an orgy, passed out, woke up the next morning, cleared his mind, began to regret what he did, tried to go back home, but got chased into the Phrygian wilderness by lions, where he was enslaved to a goddess for the rest of his life?

It's remarkably relevant 2000 years on. It even parodies the pronoun meme: he becomes she right after he cuts it off, but, later, the poem reverts to using he again.

ok
nut in contrapoints or ollie
serious answers only

>>17420027
contra desu

>>17419960
>trans women are women
Please take slogans for what they are. Once racial equality has been achieved, there will be no "black" or "white" so there will be no need to transition from one race to another.

>>17419981
I'm all for it, but society is not yet ready to have that conversation.

>>17420012
>Racial justice is not quantifiable
The elimination of systemic racism, white privilege and the prison industrial complex are not quantifiable?

>>17419995
Not. Look at the hands.

>>17420039
How do you measure white privilege?

>>17420067
Wealth, police conduct, political power, social power, cultural power. You can attach numbers to all of these.

>>17420081
Do you believe in Jewish privilege?

>>17420089
Yes.