/lit/ - Literature

>>he was a warlord. A conqueror
As were virtually all Roman emperors after Constantine
>>it doesn't recognize the separation of church and state
Neither did Theodosius the First
>>it's incompatible with Judeo-Christian values
The only difference between it and ‘Judeo-Christian values’ (a mostly nonsensical neocon term, but okay) is that it pushes its message more aggressively. The message of tawhid it pushes is the exact same as the message from the Bible

>>17418954
Judeo-Christian is a neoconservative fictional construction, it was invented in the mid-80s when they realized they were going to have to develop some sort of ideological justification for various conflicts over control of oil.
If the west has any values at all, one could argue that we are a group of people who make sure that the cogs of capital stay greased, no matter what. Church separated from state when some kind of church/state conglomerate is holding back the flow, church combined with state or state combined with church when the opposite occurs. Racism or ideological conflict when we need to justify a military action, unity when we need to justify global hegemony for easing the flow. The spice must flow, yeah?
All of this thought and conversation is post-fact rationalization.

>>17418954
t. Man who is afraid of criticizing jews

>>17419116
Based

>>17419116
>Judeo-Christian is a neoconservative fictional construction, it was invented in the mid-80s when they realized they were going to have to develop some sort of ideological justification for various conflicts over control of oil.
Exactly the west was/is Greco-Christian.

>>17418954
>the separation of church and state
The idea behind this was originally that the state cannot have a specific top-down ideological position which can be used to leverage people's eternal lives. I.e., you can't pull an Anglican or a Catholic move and say "Well I the president was appointed by God and therefore by protesting your are jeopardizing your eternal souls".

Insofar as a religion is an abstract representation of ones personal values, and faith, the state and church are necessarily combined, because one cannot believe that God calls you to eradicate some practice X, but that when in office you should totally legislate fairly towards those who practice X. Separation of church and state therefore, as it is practiced properly, is essentially "You can be a Lutheran even if I'm an Anglican, but you can't (e.g.) commit adultery without consequence just because marriage is a religious institution".

Since the US is now an imperial power, "separation of church and state" has been warped from "Separation of A church and state" to "Separation of religion and state", since top-down administration is now the name of the game post-Civil War rather than what was essentially a federalist commonwealth prior.

> you now remember that this guy showed up to a live debate on Marxism and he had never read The Communist Manifesto and then got hooked on benzos and almost died
And this is the guy the right look to for advice on how to live their lives? At least pick somebody with their own affairs in order like Hitchens

>>17419424
Good strawman. Make fun of someoen and then associate someone you don't like witht hem. See guys the one I don't like are associated with the the one I just destroyed see how stupid those guys I don't like are? Pff I am so smartt.

>>17419386
>the state and church are necessarily combined
They’re not, certainly not when you’re talking about a country with the right to free speech or democracy, two values which are both diametrically opposed to the commandments of the Bible

>>17418954
>he was a warlord. A conqueror
Nothing wrong with this, but it's hypocritical. The Jews went into a foreign land and genocided its inhabitants. Mohammad was invited to Medina and reclaimed his homeland of Mecca.

>it doesn't recognize the separation of church and state
You contradict this yourself when you start rejecting and accepting religions based on politics. Furthermore, this "value" is almost non-existent in Western history. It's one of those "eternal values" that traces its history all the way back to like the 1950's. What they're really referring to is religious freedom and ceremonial deism. On the first ground of religious freedom, the Christians were the the most vicious violators of this principle. They butchered the Pagans, the Muslims, other denominations, and even members of their own denomination as is the case of the Albigensian Crusade's attacks on Catholic Churches. Meanwhile, Christians have survived in the middle east since Christ walked the earth.

The reality of the situation is that a religious person will always have a worldview based around their religion, and their political actions will reflect that. Secularism is a delusion unless the society itself is atheistic. The advent of this principle of separation of church and state is purely a modern construct forged in the aftermath of the English and Protestant Reformations and their attempt to establish their own sovereignty and the supremacy of the body-politic over the Holy See.

>it's incompatible with Judeo-Christian values
"This religion is wrong because it's not my religion!" Islam is explicitly an outgrowth of Judaism and Christianity. If you want this argument to be substantial, you will have to list what principles you feel are being violated and discuss those. This is nothing more than a mindset fixated on "the other," "the enemy," and giving it heavy criticism, while ignoring the flaws of one's friends. It's the same bias that causes modern academics to praise "progressive" aspects of certain indigenous cultures while ignoring all their savagery. Getting past this sort of thinking is difficult, and it must be difficult, but it is crucial to understanding the world objectively.

Has Peterson ever explicitly said any of these? I’m pretty sure his take on Islam is just your average boring New Atheist whining that it’s too authoritarian

>>17419068
we don't worship random roman emperors

>>17420340
Yeah he said them all in a video interview when a Muslim asked him if he felt positive about Islam

>>17419068
>The message of tawhid it pushes is the exact same as the message from the Bible
knowingly lying. nice.