/lit/ - Literature

How about you read an author that makes a compelling case FOR it?

scientists. just two sexes, male, female, and sometimes hermaphroditics. the rest is delusion.

Campbell and Reece

>>17409473

Any honest materialists?

>>17409473
>the recent trend of "non-binary"
Literally just white women looking for attention. They'll move on to something else once NB is no longer in.

>>17409473
>reinforce my beliefs for me
No

>>17409473
Non-Binary isn't that complicated. It's "sometimes I wanna feel really pretty" and "sometimes I want to look like a biker that eats rocks"

NBs, as a whole, are the kind of people that want to look like this.

They're hecking cute and totally valid. That is all ye know on earth and all ye need to know.

>>17409527
Never jam today, always jam tomorrow.

>I HAVE AN OPINION BASED ON EMOTION
>PLEASE PROVIDE ME A BOOK OF SOMEONE MORE ARTICULATE EXPLAINING WHY MY EMOTIONS ARE JUSTIFIED AND THIS NEW THING THAT MAKES ME UPSET IS BAD


I hate how pretentious and self centered purple haired faggots are too, but I'm not going to go out of my way to learn about their equivalent of wooden doors.

>>17409496
>>17409535
>>17409543
Dilate.

>>17409595
Choke on cum

>>17409603
There is no empirical evidence to support nonbinarism. It is akin to pyramid schemes, Scientology, beliefs in the paranormal, etc. Can you just accept that it is an irrational belief?

>>17409631
You've come a long way from pretending to ask about books and still you're wrong. Male and female are just descriptives and many people do not fit entirely in one or the other.

>>17409473
I was thinking recently that it's sensory terrorism that trannies are allowed and promoted in society. It's basically how much can you take. how much will you put up with? we're going to gradually increase the ugliness that you have to put up with on a daily basis and you're just going to have to take it. for every year you're going to have to sit there and nod and smile. first around trannies, then around voluntary amputees, then people with colostomy bags around their necks, then people with open, bleeding wounds etc.

and why is this happening? I don't know. I used to think it was marxism. It's not marxism. You can't apply marxism to trannies. it's something else. I don't who's doing it or why, but it's the purest expression of clown world. and clown world has gotta have an explanation.

I don't know if any writer or philosopher has said anything about clown world yet, but I think that's some of the most important you have to understand to make sense of the world today.

>>17409473
If you want to disprove the idea of non-binary, literally just ask someone who believes in it what gender is exactly. I assure you that their definition won't be able to stand up to any scrutiny. It's so simple that it's not worth writing a book about.

>>17409659
Enbies aren't trannies.

>>17409657
Male and female are indeed just descriptives. They are scientific descriptives. Non-binary is an unsubstantiated neo-"identity," like otherkin. The burden of proof is on you to prove that it's not.

>>17409692
>They are scientific descriptives. Non-binary is an unsubstantiated neo-"identity," like otherkin. The burden of proof is on you to prove that it's not.
All of that is wrong. Nobody is born with a label that says male or female. We define them as such.
And nonbinary is not an identity it is a rejection thereof.
You simply mix up two different debates because you revel in your ignorance.

>>17409659
Marxism explains it though, but not as the reason, but as a method of analysis.

The rise of trannies is based in the neoliberal ideological imperative of profit over all else. The fact is, if you have a larger market share, more people are going to buy your product. If your business supports specific groups, then those groups will most likely support your business. Within a capitalist framework, the easiest political position for a business to support is one of identity politics. To discriminate between peoples and cut ties to those possible customers isn't advantageous to the bottom line, but support for identity politics also doesn't fundamentally change the economic system in any sort of class warfare, in fact, it divides these groups even more than before so that the poors can't do anything about it. The poors are more obsessed with the propagandized inner reflection of who they are within this hellscape then they are when it comes to legitimate grievances against the government and these corporations. Sow discord amongst the people, yet profit off them. Hell, tranny culture is profitable in and of itself. Of course the corporations are going to be in support of it. News and media outlets are going to cover it because it pretends to be empowering and riles up the people that hate trannies, and yet it continues to perpetuate the messages of neoliberal ideology without affecting the inherent economic structure. It's been the same way with gay marriage. With interracial couples. And basically everything after the civil rights movement.


You can hate them, you can despise them and be disgusted by them, but know the real reasons as to why you do and who it is that puts it in front of your face. Fuck as soon as I typed that last sentence I just know this is going to turn into a 'joos did it' thread.

Fuck.

>>17409534
This. If everyone stopped caring it would go away within a few weeks.

>>17409712
Yeah you're born with a label. The label for male is a cock and the label for a female is a pussy.

>>17409724
That's objectively wrong though. There are 46 XX born with a penis if they have slyer syndrome for example. By the way your definition embraces transsexuals though I will assume your not honest enough to admit that.

>>17409736
*swyer

>>17409736
The falsity of nonbinarism summarized in a few points:

1. Nonbinary people are *always* leftists, whereas people with gender dysphoria exist across the political spectrum.

2. I have seen people I know and people in documentary videos identify themselves as "nonbinary lesbians," which is an idiotic non-sequitur showing the emperor with no clothes.

3. There is no empirical evidence behind nonbinarism. It's not a real condition supported by real science. It's a trend. I'd be happy to be proven otherwise, but no one has been able to do so.

4. The people who defend nonbinarism deny every possible insinuation that it is an irrational belief when they have no reason to do so. Michael Shermer has talked about the prevalence of irrational beliefs, and nonbinarism certainly fits the bill.

>>17409712
In mammals, one sex produces large gametes (eggs) and the other produces small gametes (sperm). No sex produces intermediary gametes. It's one or the other. And while there are disorders of sex development, these are not new "sexes."

>>17409724
To add to that: Even by that definition a person born with or neither WOULD BE NONBINARY.
How is it possible that you don't see your own contradictions??

>>17409684
They are. Anyone who doesn't conform to their biological sex is a tranny, and plenty of them take hormones. Even they agree that they are trans.

>>17409736
that's not a person, it's a mutant. why should we pattern society on mutation?

>>17409760
>You simply mix up two different debates because you revel in your ignorance.

>>17409753
>In mammals, one sex produces large gametes (eggs) and the other produces small gametes (sperm). No sex produces intermediary gametes. It's one or the other.
Plainly not true. Ovotestes occur within mammals including humans.

>>17409511
Sex and gender presentation are different ideas. Sex cannot be changed without significant surgical and hormonal procedures and even then it isn't as good as nature usually does it

>>17409764
Because people care more about science than you making an edgy joke on 4channel.

>>17409720
no you fucking dumb idiot. fucking worthless retard.

that's paying lip service to marxism and then going off with the usual leftypol moron spiel about how "it's all dah corporations! muh neoliberalism".
which is stupid and wrong and deeply confused and doesn't explain much at all.
fucking subhuman.
>but know the real reasons as to why you do
you faggot. you absolute human incarnation of pure garbage. I dislike them because they're inherently disgusting and it's in basic human nature to do so.

you really need to kill yourself. absolute fucking vermin.
>marxism is when you copy the first thing you see on leftypol and then repeat it mindlessly, remember to blame corporations and mention neo-liberalism somewhere
absolutely worthless. why don't you fucking read a fucking book dumb fucking faggot. or better yet just fucking end your life right now because you'll always be garbage.

>>17409358I
THIS THREAD HAS BEEN DEEMED A RACKET THREAD. LEAVE THE AREA IMMEDIATELY OR EFFORTPOSTS WILL BE DEPLOYED.
>>17409358

>>17409783
An ovotestes does not have gametes that are halfway between a sperm and an egg.

And while there are disorders of sex development, these are not new "sexes."

>>17409783
Who are you quoting?

>>17409792
Why are you so mad anon? You could have told me that with less insults and more contextual explanation. But, instead, you just project your rage for trannies on me. Which, to be honest, seems a little bit silly. Couldn't you just, like, look away?

>>17409811
>And while there are disorders of sex development, these are not new "sexes."
You repeat that like it's part of the conversation. We're talking about non-binary people.

Transgender Industrial complex goes over this in excruciating detail. As in, "who" and "why". Spoiler: it's to make people miserable cattle for capitalism (this is in the words of the people who promote "Trannyism", not the author's opinion).

>>17409811
>>17409823
Nonbinary people reject their gender, not their sex. You cannot reject your biological sex without physically altering yourself, or if you are the roughly 1% born with a physical aberration.

>/lit/ - Culture Wars

>>17409823
Okay. We're talking about non-binary gender identities now. Yes, go ahead and deflect. That's fine.

You never replied to these points, which I will reiterate:

1. Nonbinary people are *always* leftists, whereas people with gender dysphoria exist across the political spectrum.

2. I have seen people I know and people in documentary videos identify themselves as "nonbinary lesbians," which is an idiotic non-sequitur showing the emperor with no clothes.

3. There is no empirical evidence behind nonbinarism. It's not a real condition supported by real science. It's a trend. I'd be happy to be proven otherwise, but no one has been able to do so.

4. The people who defend nonbinarism deny every possible insinuation that it is an irrational belief or a social contagion when they have no reason to do so. Michael Shermer has talked about the prevalence of irrational beliefs, and nonbinarism certainly fits the bill.

non-binary? 2017 wants its meme back

>>17409850
>1. Nonbinary people are *always* leftists, whereas people with gender dysphoria exist across the political spectrum.
That's hardlx a point worth responding to.
>2. I have seen people I know and people in documentary videos identify themselves as "nonbinary lesbians," which is an idiotic non-sequitur showing the emperor with no clothes.
Well I wouldn't deny idiots exist. Especially not after this thread.
>3. There is no empirical evidence behind nonbinarism. It's not a real condition supported by real science. It's a trend. I'd be happy to be proven otherwise, but no one has been able to do so.
I have done so right in this thread. You're denying basic biology.
>4. The people who defend nonbinarism deny every possible insinuation that it is an irrational belief or a social contagion when they have no reason to do so.
No. I used to believe it was made up too until I checked the science. People always made the claim it's determined by genes or by genitalia not seeong how these contradict each other.

So now please answer me 1 question calmly:
What do you get out of denying they exist? Is your respect for your people so little and your worldview so fragile that you would force a woman with a penis to live as a male? Or expect an XY person with extremely limited testosterone production because of missing testicles to be measured by the same means as boys? There is literally nothing at stake here other than that you enjoy raging online.

>>17409496
What are some books that do that?

>>17409898
Intersex isn't the same thing as non-binary.

>>17409909
True but intersex people have a valid claim to be nonbinary

>>17409527
Oxymoron.

>>17409792
What’s wrong anon?

>>17409936
Based Burgerpunk reality.

>>17409898
>That's hardlx a point worth responding to.
Fucking cop out.
>Well I wouldn't deny idiots exist. Especially not after this thread.
Does that not suggest to you that numerous nonbinary people are obviously bullshitting?
>I have done so right in this thread. You're denying basic biology.
No you haven't. Provide the empirical evidence behind nonbinary identity. If a man with a penis producing sperm says he is nonbinary, what is to stop me from saying that he has an irrational belief? Nonbinary people have no skin in the game and their identity is unfalsifiable. You can gauge a gay man's erection when he watches a video of two men buttfucking, a trans person will literally go to the length of taking hormones and removing their genitals to confirm their gender identity. Nonbinary identity is a wishy-washy imaginative fiction – an irrational belief like Scientology or pyramid schemes or two-spirit, not an actual mental condition – that never manifests itself in real or material ways.

>What do you get out of denying they exist? Is your respect for your people so little and your worldview so fragile that you would force a woman with a penis to live as a male? Or expect an XY person with extremely limited testosterone production because of missing testicles to be measured by the same means as boys? There is literally nothing at stake here other than that you enjoy raging online.
Fucking strawmanning retard. I respect trans people and see them as completely valid. I see nonbinarism as a social contagion, an unsubstantiated neo-"identity" akin to otherkin, and a moronic belief like Scientology.

Is there a single author who even defines what "gender" means in this context, if it's unrelated to your biological sex and to gender norms?

>>17409898
society asked one thing of you. Did your body attempt to produce sperm? Use Men's room. Eggs? Woman's room. If you consider that overly forceful you have lived a pampered existence. Is that forcing someone to live as a woman? Then so be it. Stay oppressed, bitch. You want to fund solo bathrooms? most of us are for it. Now get rekt.

>>17409927
>Fucking cop out.
lol
>Does that not suggest to you that numerous nonbinary people are obviously bullshitting?
So? Numerous people pretended to be sick to not get drafted. Does this mean diseases don't exist?
>No you haven't. Provide the empirical evidence behind nonbinary identity.
I have
>If a man with a penis producing sperm says he is nonbinary, what is to stop me from saying that he has an irrational belief?
Politeness? Fuck do I care what you call others?
>Fucking strawmanning retard. I respect trans people and see them as completely valid. I see nonbinarism as a social contagion, an unsubstantiated neo-"identity" akin to otherkin, and a moronic belief like Scientology.
Quite an unusual mix but okay. As I pointed out it's not an identity it's a rejection thereof and I still don't see how you could deny it.
If anything scrapping labels and engaging with these persons on an individual basis might help them integrate into society better.

>>17409957
rejecting an identity is still an identity. BAKA

>>17409953
>society asked one thing of you. Did your body attempt to produce sperm? Use Men's room. Eggs? Woman's room.
That's not anyone's definition of male and female. Castrates are still male and infertile women are still female. Look how far you have to bend basic human existence to make your stance seem fitting.
>If you consider that overly forceful you have lived a pampered existence. Is that forcing someone to live as a woman? Then so be it. Stay oppressed, bitch. You want to fund solo bathrooms? most of us are for it. Now get rekt.
You sound like a badass and not like a sperg raging at his computer in the slightest. Fuck do I care about bathrooms? You're just showing that your concepts are based on politics while mine are based on biology.

>>17409957
You responded to the deleted version of my comment that I have since expanded. If a man with a penis producing sperm says he is nonbinary, what is to stop me from saying that he has an irrational belief? Nonbinary people have no skin in the game and their identity is unfalsifiable. You can gauge a gay man's erection when he watches a video of two men buttfucking, a trans person will literally go to the length of taking hormones and damaging their genitals to confirm their gender identity. Nonbinary identity is a wishy-washy imaginative fiction – an irrational belief like Scientology or pyramid schemes or two-spirit, not an actual mental condition – that never manifests itself in real or material ways.

>>17409969
This. Rejecting an identity is still an identity. You're a pedant.

I will use whatever pronouns nonbinary people want me to use just to be polite but I will laugh at them in private, because I know they are irrational believers.

If you want to sexually mutilate yourself, no one would care. It's non-binary people that make it an issue by making it a public spectacle. Literally your own worst enemies. It's non-binary that create the problem are throwing it in everyone's face. You think these sub-epsilon morons can correctly utilize your 90 plus gender system? You will never win. But thanks for outing the retards who will worship any media idea. Woman of the year: MYDICK.

>>17409979
>what is to stop me from saying that he has an irrational belief?
Still couldn't care less. Eat your heart out.

>an irrational belief
No. It's a rejection of social constructs around the dimorphism of human sexual organs.

>>17409971
which part of attempt, didn't you understand? If you can't into context, GTFO.

>>17409957
Stuff like this https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/05/180524112351.htm proves that transgenderism and gender dysphoria are real and not just irrational beliefs. I can gauge a gay man's erection when he watches gay porn. For non-binary people there is no such scientific observation that I can refer to. It is a political construct adopted by attention-seekers.

Well adjusted people wouldn't give a shit either way. This is the territory of the mentally ill pushing their delusion on society.

>>17410001
It's still wrong anon. Stop stamping your foot on losing ground. Agonadism exists in humans. YOUR OWN DEFINITION proves that two genders don't sufficiently include all humans.

can't use the correct bathroom. What a radical. What a free thinker. Much rebellion.

>>17410000
>No. It's a rejection of social constructs around the dimorphism of human sexual organs.
Rejection doesn't make something rational. I can reject the fact that I have human skin and call myself a "non-skin individual" and call that a new identity. Is that rational? No, it's not.

>>17410003
Thanks for the article. As for scientific observation for me it's simple: intersex people prove strictly male or strictly female don't suffice so we have nonbinary to acknowledge the fact that biological differences exist that can't be described dychotically. As far as gender identity and trans fits into this I'm the wrong person to talk about

I hate trannies and identity politics, but I hate people who hate trannies and identity politics even more.

>>17410024
>reject the fact that I have human skin
Hilarious but fact is the keyword here. That male and female as sexual markers DON'T describe everyone is the demonstrated fact here and you are the one denying it. THEY reject your false label.

>>17410024
Also, gender is not a social construct.

>>17410056
Everything is a social construct though. Without people there would be no one to interpret data.

>>17409496
seethe

>>17410054
When 0.000001% of the population can't be described as male or female (they actually can but I'll throw you a bone), it doesn't mean that the rest of the population now has the option to reject those descriptions.

>>17410054
Why are you bringing up intersex people constantly? Intersex, intersex, intersex? Who cares? I'm talking about biologically male/female people (men/penis/sperm, women/vagina/eggs) – NOT intersex people – who call themselves nonbinary (i.e. "I don't fit into either gender"). Nonbinary people, by the way, never (to my knowledge) get surgical operations to make their penises look a little more like vaginas or vice versa, nor do they ever take low doses of hormones to make them partially look like the opposite sex but not fully like the opposite sex. In fact nearly all of them look like cis men/women. Nonbinarism as I've seen it is just an unfalsifiable, performative political construct that requires them to put zero skin in the game and not pursue any sort of medical transformation whatsoever.

>>17410100
>When 0.000001% of the population can't be described as male or female
Alright deal. As soon as the population of intersex people drops to 0.000001% we'll drop the term nonbinary. This was great.
>(they actually can but I'll throw you a bone),
Kek so you want to make your claim but are afraid of a refutation?
>it doesn't mean that the rest of the population now has the option to reject those descriptions.
But anon YOU demand that right to reject the description of nonbinaries. And I disagree. I think you should have that right.

>>17410116
>Why are you bringing up intersex people constantly? Intersex, intersex, intersex? Who cares?
Because they have a valid claim to be nonbinary.
>I'm talking about biologically male/female people (men/penis/sperm, women/vagina/eggs) – NOT intersex people – who call themselves nonbinary (i.e. "I don't fit into either gender").
But why? You believe intersex enbies exist you even believe people can be trans so why can't people who you would accept as trans simply not identify with a gender?
As I said I'm the wrong person to argue how trans or biological m/fs identifying as nb fit into this. My whole point from the beginning was that nonbinary people are an objective biological fact proven by intersex people. If you don't want to include cis hetero or whoever else in that group don't. I'm not educated enough on these topics for that debate.

>>17410163
I will agree with you that intersex people can identify as nonbinary. I concede that. However, I strongly believe that biological M/F enbies are bullshitters.

>>17409659
For the lulz you massive homo

>>17410175
Fair enough.

It used to be acceptable to be a man who has feminine traits. People who to choose to openly identify only do so to attract the appropriate partner. You can see this at BLM rallies. Everyone has to identify and then walk in big circles so the identifiers can meet the other identified. Its all about the pair bonding of those who have difficulty pair bonding. Just use the correct bathroom and no one has to get hurt. That means the one they assigned you in kindergarten.

>>17410220
I'm glad we were able to come to an agreement.