/lit/ - Literature

>>17398728
>Hinduism
You might as well convert to judaism. You will always be out of place if you are not born hindu. Also, it's not the "muh indo-european based warrior cult" you think it is (for I am sure that's why you're interested in hinduism in the first place), it has been subverted by and to the advantage of the brahmans which are pratically oriental rabbi. Also, the popular worship is as vulgar and plebeian as american-protestant mass worship.
>Buddhism
Far too commercial.

>>17398728
>imitate
Firstly, religious sentimentality is not spirituality. Secondly, you kind of already answered your own question; you were born into a tradition. If you're a westerner you cannot into east, but abrahamism does have much to offer you (and you will gain more from).

>>17398756
>If you're a westerner you cannot into east
Explain.

>>17398776
he's wrong

>>17398776
For buddhism, you can be one of those cringy westen "monks" that take dharma names and all but are almost never fully accepted by the local ones and end up disrobing. For hinduism the hostility toward non-hindus is often overt. Iirc there are even some who consider being reborn outside of India a bad rebirth.

>>17398825
this, western metaphysics has been deracinated from the east for too long to make the cultures wholly mutually intelligible (especially when it comes to that esoteric shit)
not impossible though, sir richard burton (the badass he was) tried very hard but in the end became catholic again

>>17398825
>one of those cringy westen "monks"

>>17398728
unrelated but where do I start with shankara?

Why are christlarpers such insecure faggots. White people have held prestigious ranks in both buddhism and hinduism.
Don't project your own fears onto world religions.

>>17399399
Who? Borderline fanatics like Thanissaro and Analayo obsessed with a pure doctrine? Or meme Roshis like Joan Halifax? I get there were Nanavira and a few others who actually contributed to the philosophy, but their contributions are too alien and mostly footnotes to the mainstream body of Asian Buddhism.

You're born to be who you are. Stick to the tradition of your locality, but if it doesn't come naturally then adopt at least to some extent a perennialist mindset, reading other traditions in order to understand your own. There's no harm in understanding your own tradition differently from those around you, the same would be true of your own understanding of Buddhism compared with the locals in SE Asia. I'm a Calvinist by blood and fate not by choice, but I mostly read Islamic and Buddhist texts.

>>17399626
>Borderline fanatics like Thanissaro and Analayo obsessed with a pure doctrine?
>NOOO HOW DARE THEY RESPECT THE TRACHINGS AND TRADITION!!!
Embarrassing

>>17399626
>fanatics like Thanissaro
He's pretty tame though?

I can understand White people converting to Buddhism, but Hinduism? They just seem so out of place.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vp_NbI8Gdio

>>17398728
The ironic part in that pic is the fact that Buddha actually fucked and had kids, while Shankara died a virgin at 32.

>>17398746
>commercial
>tells you to relinquish all attachments to worldly matters
Do you have brain damage?

>>17399818
>tells you to relinquish all attachments to worldly matters by buying this chakra crystal
Not saying all western converts are like this, but it's a stereotype for a reason.

>>17398825
Where the fuck does that come from?
Plenty of western monks have contributed greatly and are very much respected in asian countries, just look at the way Thanissaro was received by the laity in Singapore.
And westerners can ordain at Thai or Burmese temples easily, so you're demonstrably wrong.
You seem like you have no idea what the fuck you're talking about.

>>17399844
>Plenty of western monks have contributed greatly and are very much respected in asian countries
Name a few
>just look at the way Thanissaro was received by the laity in Singapore
He was well received because he is a bhikku, and the practicing laity will universally revere and respect them, not because they understand or are truly in awe of whatever it is he's trying to do
>And westerners can ordain at Thai or Burmese temples easily
Never said they couldn't, but you should wonder why so many end up disrobing. Also the institution of monasticism in burma and thailand has some very serious issues that makes it a poor examples of the best buddhism has to offer.

>>17399915
Thanissaro, Bodhi, Sumedho, Pasanno...
>because he is a bhikku
Yes, a bhikku is a bhikku, regardless of where he comes from.
Also, bhikkus contributing to buddhist philosophy is really just a plus, since most of them just ordain to reach liberation. Why are you so hung up on the idea that every monk must provide something new to the edifice? They're monks, not PhD candidates.
>why so many end up disrobing
Because it's not as cushy as the lifestyle they're used to, and they become disillusioned because monastic life ends up not being what they imagined. Seems pretty obvious.
>very serious issues
The thai forest tradition is the most well known and one of the most respected theravadin orders in the world, you're talking out of your ass. I wonder what your idea of what "the best buddhism has to offer" is.

>>17399936
>. I wonder what your idea of what "the best buddhism has to offer" is.
Intellectually, the philosophical tradition of the Mahdyamakas. Spiritually, Thich Nhat Hanh.

>>17399989
Okay.
You do know Plum Village is based in a western country, right?

>>17400002
Yes. It's still the best and most humane thing Buddhism has produced in 2500 years even if it's barely Buddhism anymore.

>>17400024
I don't think we're on the same wavelength here. First you say a westerner will never be able to become a true Buddhist, then you go on praising Plum Village which is rather westernized or at least extremely tolerant as far as Buddhist monasticism goes. I don't understand you.

>>17399675
what if my local tradition is atheist
t. former communist colony

>>17400047
Most of those countries were Christian or Muslim, if you want to follow a local tradition go with that. I personally disagree with the anon you're replying to though.

There are plenty of western Buddhists though, including probably hundreds of almost exclusively white Buddhist monasteries. A lot of these are even more traditionalist than the average eastern Buddhist monasteries. Especially in the Sri Lankan tradition there are plenty of western monks that are trying to adhere fully to the Buddhism taught in the scriptures.

>>17400031
Plum village is its own, westernized thing precisely because the secular humanistic mindset of most westerners isn't compatible with what actual buddhist beliefs and monastic life entail. That's good, I personally dislike a lot of things about "real" buddhism.

>>17400047
This idea of you somehow being spiritually tied to the religion your ancestors practiced is very unconvincing. Most people quote Jung on this, but he didn't even say that, he just said that if you were to adopt a religion that wasn't culturally yours, you should adapt it to you rather than adapt to its own cultural background, which makes sense.
Just go for whatever you believe in and what sounds true to you, don't limit yourself because some dude on /lit/ told you to.

>>17400055
>the secular humanistic mindset of most westerners
Which they need to abandon if they wish to become Buddhists, and this is not a problem, because western Buddhist monks are not "secular humanists". You're taking things from the wrong end here.

>>17400055
>I personally dislike a lot of things about "real" buddhism.
Then I'd advice you to fuck off.

>>17400064
Why should he? This isn't a safe space. If you can't deal with people having different opinions and beliefs, this is your problem.

>>17400064
Nah and gonna stick around.

>>17398728
Just spend some time doing research and find a branch which is authentic and whose teachings appeal to you. I myself may choose to become initiated into possibly the Veerashaiva or Śrī Vidyā traditions of Hinduism at some point. You can always travel to a temple of that branch and talk with some of their members and clergy first to ask questions about it and so on.
>>17398746
>You might as well convert to judaism. You will always be out of place if you are not born hindu.
Complete nonsense
>>17398825
>For hinduism the hostility toward non-hindus is often overt
Not true or highly variable, many, many Indians are very happy to see Westerners who take and practice Hinduism as seriously as they do
>>17399626
>Who?
Bodhinatha Veylanswami (pic related) is the current and 163rd head of one of the branches of the Nandinatha Sampradya Shaivite tradition

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodhinatha_Veylanswami

>>17399044
With Atma Bodha, and then with his collection of 8 Upanishad commentaries translated by Gambhirananda, enjoy

https://www.stillnessspeaks.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/ShankaraAtmaBodha.pdf
https://estudantedavedanta.net/Eight-Upanisads-Vol-1.pdf
https://estudantedavedanta.net/Eight-Upanisads-vol2.pdf

>>17400047
communist countries usually ended more religious post-communism, I know mine did.

>>17400120
well this one didn't, probably because we have an economy

>>17398746
atheist leftist larpers are the worst they project so fucking hard.
Everywhere you look around you today you see the death and decay of everything they ever asserted to believe on; Marxism has been exploded as thoroughly as an economic theory can be, it's now just wordplay used to justify cutting maladjusted males's penisesso they are not a danger to themselves and others (yeah, that's why we support LGBTQ+ in reality, they don't get to reproduce. Also most kill themselves which is more convenient than organising purges), Positivism and Analityc phylosophy are the bottom of the bottom, they have to look on as their best writers fuck their ass off due to political conve ience to the Muslims, they have to look on as it turned out that the revolutionaries that would create the dictatorship of the proletariat were the capitalists themselves all along,they have to look on after decades defending net neutrality as their pet billionaires build 1984 with their own internet infrastructur.

Then they look at someone, anyone looking for any alternate answer to their MASSIVE SHITSHOW, and call them LARPERS.
The world you built is a LARP.
Shut the fuck up.

>>17400053
is pic related honestly an arahant? his vidoes on dhamma are some of the best desu

>>17400165
Who is he?

>>17400165
Literally who.

>>17400169
look up hillside hermitage on youtube

>>17400181
Oh yeah I've seen some of his videos before. What makes you think he's an arahant?
So far the only bhikku that's given me the impression he could have attained liberation has been Thanissaro but maybe I'm biased because his voice is so soothing

What do we think of Black Buddhists?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3EmDm_O1Oo

>>17400077
Best reply in this thread, thank you for being helpful anon

>>17400199
>clickbait title
>that smug grin typical of false teachers
No thanks. Zen is full of those unfortunately

>>17400191
Thanissaro honestly sounds creepy to me. Like he's trying so hard to hold it together.

>>17400199
Only descendents of Hyberborea can be reach enlightenment

>>17400231
Really? I don't get this impression at all. I like the way he's more composed than most other famous bhikkus, a lot of them tend to laugh all the time but Thanissaro tends to keep a very cool composure.

>>17400165
Arahant might be a bit too far but definitely a stream-enterer.

>>17400372
Pretty much every ordained monk is a stream enterer, anon.

>>17400377
That is definitely not true.

>>17400392
It absolutely is. Stream entry is not special. Some old thai monk said something like "if you ordained and aren't a sotapanna after six months, you're doing something wrong"
Stop making things out to be unreachable or impossibly difficult. Stream entry can even be attained by laity on retreats, or on their own if they're diligent.

stream entry is attained by a simple thought
even enlightenment is not that hard to achieve

>>17400392
Why the hell would anyone become a monk of stream entry was difficult even for them

>>17400138
maybe name your country

>>17400786
east germany

>>17400736
I wasn't necessarily saying it was difficult but alot of monks will tell you about their experience in various monasteries about what fallen state a lot of them actually are in. Not all monasteries are from the forest traditions or some of the good Sri Lankan schools, a lot of them have fallen into ritualism and/or being mere community centers.

>>17401056
Why would you ordain anywhere else than in a forest monastery if you're into theravada? This isn't a rhetorical question, I'm just wondering why anyone would go to a less reputable monastery where there are thai forest ones in every continent.

There is nothing traditional about adopting some foreign pajeet religion as your own.

>>17401102
This, you should adopt a jewish religion instead, lest you be cast into a lake of fire for all eternity.

>>17400163
Interesting take, thanks for posting.

>>17401102
Many do it because its exotic, but its not against tradition to adopt a religion.

>>17399809
It's like a street confidence trick, you have the guru who's the guy running the cards, and like 90% of these fucktards are collaborators and friends of his, making a show for the would be victims.

I feel so bad for the stupid, sad and desperate people who get hooked by this. They need real help, instead they get taken for everything they have by a bunch of degenerates.

>>17401171
India is full of those people. If you aren't on your guard and get scammed, you had it coming.

>>17400163
I'm neither an atheist nor a leftist, you just posted massive cope.

>>17401358
>I'm neither an atheist nor a leftist
Perhaps, but you're still a retard. Case in point >>17399831
All philosophies are massive copes by the way. It's not a bad thing.

>>17398862
This Canuck is based

>>17398728
Is there anything more cringe than willfully submitting yourself to the religion or ideology of a foreign land? Like "traditionally" it was that you had to be conquered and forced to give yourself to the foreign horde's indoctrination but to willfully surrender yourself? P.A.T.H.E.T.I.C.

>>17401383
>Is there anything more cringe than willfully submitting yourself to the religion or ideology of a foreign land?
Yes, larping as hard as you do

>>17399399
>White people have held prestigious ranks in both buddhism and hinduism.
Like exotic animals in a zoo.

>>17401387
Extreme cope
Just deal with the fact that your dead jew doesn't have the monopoly on spirituality anymore now that people are able to learn about other traditions easily

>>17401364
Do you even know what "Cope" means? Like, for your own personal sake, inside your brain, do you even know what the word means or does it stand for this vague sentiment about dealing with something you don't like?

Because I'd argue that these philosophers you claim to be coping, large part of their endeavors are motivated by eradicating exactly these kinds of moronic memetic outbursts where you repeat a term you heard somewhere and have only vague understanding of.

In other words, you're a fucking moron who's idea of coping with his subconscious realization that he is in fact a moron incapable of understanding anything past Jordan Peterson pop-psych, is to post "lol cope" on Taiwanese basket weaving forums.

Do you understand?

>>17401419
>Do you even know what "Cope" means?
Yes.
The rest of your post is incoherent seething I won't bother addressing. Go get some air.

>>17401400
Whatever tradition you choose is just some other people's dead jew tradition only made more appealing and exotic because of its novelty to you.

>>17401428
>dude all philosophies are exactly the same lmao, there's no meaningful difference between christianity and buddhism
By the way I wasn't raised in a christian household, environment or culture, so you are demonstrably wrong. Go be braindead somewhere else

The Norfayana tradition is the only legitimate lineage.

>>17401428
Buddhism technically could have arisen anywhere though whereas Christianity is Jewish to its core and could not exist without it. I don't think it is equivalent.

Buddhism may be foreign but it is not intrinsically tied up with a specific ethnic group and its tribal history.

>>17401421
To say it's incohrenet is to address. In fact, you replying is addressing

dressing

moron

salaaaad

>>17401458
>moksha
Is that term ever used in Buddhism? I don't think so.

>>17401462
This, the dharma is universal and just as there were buddhas before, there will be buddhas in the future to make sure the teachings don't die. Geography is irrelevant

>>17401469
Norf Arahants often pretend to be morons to teach people. I'm sure you've heard of "skillful means"

>>17401482
Based, where do I get initiated into a norfern lineage?

>>17401487
Ask the server at your favorite curry restaurant.
If they try to tell you "I'm hindu" or "I'm muslim" or "I'm calling the police" ignore them.
After you sit at your seat for three days and prove you're serious, they'll bring you your robes and a vindaloo.

>>17401515
All jokes aside are there even any Buddhist lineages left in India? Don't Indian Buddhists form less than 2% of the Indian population?

>>17401523
The large majority of Buddhists in India are recent (past century) converts and their descendants.

>>17401551
I see. How come Sri Lanka's population never converted to Hinduism?

>>17401562
Muslims cant swin

>>17401573
Fair enough

>>17400163
>The world you built is a LARP.
most based post I've seen in a long time anon

>>17401646
thank you

>>17401573
>Muslims cant swin
just ignore the muslim population

>>17401877
>9.7% of Sri Lanka is Muslim
>they are composed entirely of non-native ethnic groups
You're just defending his point.

>>17399675
>One shot at life
>Born Calvinist
Why live?

Would be interested in Hinduism but really don't like Indians so its Tibetan Buddhism for me

>>17402883
what the hell are the two realms on the right
the dark chad one and the doggy one

>>17403421
asura and animal respectively

>>17402883
The Nepalese and Balinese are also Hindu

>>17403421
Preta and animal.

>>17403436
preta is hungry ghosts, they're the wojaks floating in the void on the left

>>17399809
cult.

>>17399675
Calvinism isn't a tradition