/lit/ - Literature

>>17389714
There has been a lot of translations of Beowulf done by women, and most of them are good, so I don't understand why this one is "feminist." I'll have to give it a read.

>>17389729
>For all of these intricacies, Beowulf is at heart an adventure story, and Headley’s is a decidedly feminist interpretation of this most testosterone-drenched narrative. This is evident at the poem’s iconic first word. “Hwæt!” is usually taken as an interjection, and rendered with an anodyne “Lo!,” “Hark!,” or “Listen!” Seamus Heaney, connecting the word to the speech habits of his own Irish relations, translates it as “So.” An out-of-date hipster might have it as “Yo!” For Headley, “Hwæt!” is “Bro!,” both a call to attention and a signal that these verses are a man speaking to other men.

>Headley’s Dark Age society is structured on male power, male violence, and male privilege. The songs of the poets — “howling of harps, squawking of scops” — are, in her words, really just “Men recounting the history of men like them.” Commenting on how Scyld Scefing’s heir secures his succession, Headley writes:

>>17389729
Its to sell copies. Literally nothing else.

>phoneposter
>headlineposter
>outragefag

you are worse

>>17389734
>This is evident at the poem’s iconic first word. “Hwæt!” is usually taken as an interjection, and rendered with an anodyne “Lo!,” “Hark!,” or “Listen!” Seamus Heaney, connecting the word to the speech habits of his own Irish relations, translates it as “So.” An out-of-date hipster might have it as “Yo!” For Headley, “Hwæt!” is “Bro!,” both a call to attention and a signal that these verses are a man speaking to other men.
My fucking sides

>>17389714

>>17389714
Women don’t build
They move in

>>17389751
This.

Presentism. The past is not allowed to exist on its own terms, because god forbid you get any naughty ideas reading old books.

>>17389734
>Bro
wtf is wrong with people

>>17389751
this website is like the incel equivalent of WE WUZ, bunch of NEET shutins taking credit for half the population in history.

>>17389714
We need a new, feminist translation of *everything* in the so-called canon, anon.

>>17389714
Why do they even both making more translations of Beowulf? Whether they're men or women it doesn't matter because the Seamus Heaney is unsurpassable.

>>17389749
Just read the book a couple of days ago, i had forgotten how close it was getting to reality.

>>17389734
>“Bro!,
this is based though

>>17389741
this
go away

>>17389831
1984 wasn't a fricking instruction manuel!!!!!!!!1

>>17389857
it wasn't, but they're treating it that way. I hope every single person who voted for Biden dies of corona

Do you think it was translated from Old English or was it translated from modern English to feminist English?

Best sources for learning Old English myself?

>>17389813
We do build though
And they don’t though

>>17389905
https://lrc.la.utexas.edu/eieol/engol

On the other hand, a wise professor told me to read Chaucer in the original with scarce use of the dictionary everyday and then move on to Beowulf in the same fashion to acquire the language via input. Good luck.

>>17389813
Low iq analogy

>>17389920
So what do you build, Anon?

>>17389920
"we" don't build anything. people far better than either of us do

>>17389920
Women 'built' in the sense that they raised like 10 kids half of whom died, while also doing a bunch of work around the farm, which is where 99% of people lived. They weren't just sitting around.

>>17389813
Seethe harder worthless cunt

>>17389734
Leaving it untranslated as hwæt would be kino

>>17390013
That's not building in the sense of creating. It's repoducing

>>17390013
i really think the average 4channer has unresolved issues with their mother or something. what you say is completely right. women don't do the things that men do but the things that they do are clearly essential. if anything it's a terrible shame of feminism that it has sought to devalue traditional female contributions

>>17389946
Subcultures like /lit/

>>17390013
Being a brood sow is not building

>>17389714
burgers gonna burger

>>17390031
>sees participating in an image board as an act of creation

>>17390045
Not claiming a work of art
Just taking part in a subculture
And contributing. Most days it’s just shitposts but every now and then I effort post

>>17389714
Yikes, this is literary defacement. The whole substance of Beowulf is an exploration of masculinity. At least make a new story "inspired by it" rather than just replacing all the references of "he" with "she"

>>17390023
Barely any men create in that sense either. There is a minuscule minority of men who invent important stuff. The majority of people have always given meaning to their lives by forming families and working hard to support them and the community around them, which is something that men and women have always both done.

>>17390060
Are women on Tumblr "building"?

>>17389813
>we can't take credit for your ancestors' achievements
>but we do have to pay for all of their alleged sins
Who hurt you?

>>17390097
>>we can't take credit for your ancestors' achievements
correct
>>but we do have to pay for all of their alleged sins
incorrect

if you wanted to argue with a strawman why did you link to my post?

>>17390073
Not any men can do it but it is almost necessary to be a man to do it

>>17389734
>Bro!
My fucking sides

>>17390013
That view is anathema to modern-day feminism. It's literally the kind of thing an Iranian ayatollah would say.

>>17390093
Tumblr is pretty much the epitome of what women build

>>17389714
>identifying with feminism in current year
ngmi

>>17389734
I literally can't stop laughing what the fuck

>>17389734
>really just “Men recounting the history of men like them.”
the fact that this is viewed as a bad thing is proof that they hate you

>>17390139
Well, and some bad voices would call /lit/ "some pretentious faggots arguing over Plato and Guenon 24/7

>>17390130
They wouldn't promote women doing that now, but feminists would still admit, or even point out themselves, that women were doing that back then.

>>17390171
Yes and?

>>17389734
>The songs of the poets — “howling of harps, squawking of scops” — are, in her words, really just “Men recounting the history of men like them.”
Feminists must hate the concept of class privilege for pointing out that elite women are exploiters too.

>>17390171
‘They’can duck off to tumblr or Reddit or wherever the fuck they like. I don’t care. Just so long as they don’t try moving in here and calling me ‘bro’

>>17389743
“Tell me about a complicated bro!”

>>17389714
Imagine translating Beowulf just a few decades after Heaney did it.
Why? What is the point? The woman is probably smart enough, and probably knows the language well, so why not translate something else? Something that hasn't been translated or was translated for the last time long ago?

Heaney did the job for her. No Beowful translation needed for the next ~200 years. It's not the Odyssey, which is so different from English that it can be translated in so many different ways. It's Beowulf! Heaney is enough.

is scroggins a jewish last name?

>>17389714
Women are able to produce arts of beauty, and despite that aristocratic women were taught the ancient languages and literature, they were unable to produce anything of significance until the 20th ce due to the patriarchy.

>>17390244
because there was money to be made

>>17390225
So what's the value of this creation?

>>17390287
Good one butters

>>17390175
But they almost never do that. Doing so would mean recognising the value of traditional gender roles, however indirectly.

Mainstream feminism in the West is too concerned with critique and nihilistic upheaval to do this. Everything traditional is increasingly rejected.
They don't even appreciate traditionally recognised female artists, for that matter. Things like the feminist critiques of Jane Austen, or the appraisal of third-rate artists like Gentileschi over far more talented ones such as Anguissola or Vigée-Lebrun, are a perfect example of this.

>>17390298
What’s the value of /lit/?

It’s shit most of the time but every now and then there’s a thread about a book or poem or play I love and I effort post.

It’s home.

>>17389714
publish or perish+neoliberal fashionable fake wokeism as a stand in for egalitarianism=piles and piles of doggerel from anyone with a gash or a tan

>>17390097
No one said that.

>>17390349
So it has the same personal value for it's users as Tumbler for theirs?

>>17389714
because feminists are worthless ... honestly I'm a liberal male but feminism is pure poison ... they undertook to dismantle as basic and universal a social institution as gender roles without any concern for the consequences ...

when women are legally/financially dependent on men (when marriage is a matter of survival) ... and when this is the universal condition of women in a given society, then social institutions come into existence to facilitate marriage (and thus social cohesion) ... and one consequence is that men and women get to know each other in an organic manner ...

societies use to have two spheres (a feminine and a masculine) but now we have only one ... the only societies that form are necessarily predicated on the mutual need of the members of that society to survive ... and that happens only in the masculine (or business) sphere ... hence all societies today are centered around a) school or b) workforce ... but these are hardly adequate ... so the consequence is increasingly widespread social alienation/isolation and a general social fracturing ... that's what happens when you give perfectly healthy normal women contraceptives they don't need to live and work like men (to live and work in a manner that is contrary to nature) .... you get a fucked up society that is quickly breaking apart ...

just consider that there are no longer very many means of getting to know women in an organic way (over the course of several months or years and by virtue of belonging to the same familial set or society) ... instead you have to talk to strangers on the internet (with whom you have no organic connection) or meet strangers at a bar (with the necessity of getting drunk because the whole thing is so awkward and contrary to nature) ... all this is the consequence of feminism ... and for what? so some stupid bitch could write a "feminist" interpretation of some poem from the 6th century

honestly being a white male liberal with traditional values is the fucking worst; if the democrats scrapped feminism and neoliberalism, and returned to New Deal style corporatism, with a strong welfare state and strictly defined gender roles, the party would be perfect

>>17390287
When I said they I meant feminist, not women. It’s weird to have a feminist translation.

>A smart son gives

>gifts to his father’s friends in peacetime.

>When war woos him, as war will,

>he’ll need those troops to follow the leader.

>Privilege is the way men prime power,

>the world over.
Holy shit fucking cringe lmao.

> Most strikingly, Headley has decided to make the dragon — “he” or “it” for most translators — female, so that Beowulf’s final battle becomes not merely a test of human bravery against chthonic forces, but the elimination of an unpredictable and awesome feminine force, one described in terms of striking grace: “Never again / would she soar through a starry / sky, revel in rising rhapsody, rolling in and out / of clouds and mist, a raging rainbow, glinting golden.”
Holy shit imagine having such a flagrant disregard for accuracy lmao.

>>17390443
>It’s weird to have a feminist translation
Potentially decades worth of makework here in terms of academic production, and given how quickly ideologies move, it may never end, as older feminist translations become outdated and new gender-lifts are required. Feminist-filtered classics is something ahead of its time, like shopping online in the 1990s.

>>17390428
I wouldn’t know. Or care.

>>17390475
well... what is the gender of the dragon or its pronouns in old english?

>>17389714
>generic tech art of a woman devouring her son
They want to destroy all problematic culture and replace it to suit their ideology and therefore their ego

>>17390475
>revel in rising rhapsody,
>raging rainbow, glinting golden.
This is literally on the level of /lit/ wannabe poets vomiting pseudo-joycean garble onto the screen.

>>17390073
I can see what youre getting at. "Building ", the male tendency to build, probably leads to actual building, or if not that then handyman stuff around the house, man cave hobbies.. but it's more about the attitude of masculine men vs feminine women. They're good at and generally tend to gravitate towards different things.
>>17390027
No one said women didnt do essential things

So have the classics departments of universities been compromised? Do people that study classics even like them, or do they hate them and view them as another field of study that needs to be used to bash people over the head with their political ideology? Is there any hope left?

>>17389714
It sells. Blame the money men.

rewriting history everything must be how they want it

>>17389714
I read somewhere it's sort of a retelling combined with a translation. It's apparently very bad in some places and very good in others. I'm not interested in it but I always like it when the translator assumes his independence and does creative shit like this. Plus it's not like anyone's pushing this as the definitive version of Beowulf and making people read this translation instead of others, so I don't think there's much reason to be mad desu.

>>17389852
cum about it fagcel

>Why do they keep doing this?
To destroy White western culture bit by bit

>>17389813
We were kings and the like.

>>17389734
>Bro!
You cannot be serious.

>>17390241
I rap of guns and homies

They're really trying to justify burning books by writing this trash.

>>17390241
wrong book but still funny

the homoexistentialists already did this with grendel

>>17389886
I really want to say from modern english, but even though they are only leeching off literature and collegial trends, we must not underestimate the expertise of these feminist scholars. Just think about that weird feminist translation of the Odyssey, it was translated from the original text.

>>17389734
Reality IS stranger than Fiction

>>17389734
>Bro!

>>17390300
Bingo

>>17389714

There must be some market for "feminist translation of Beowulf" which is what is fucking crazy. How do you live your life as a feminist consoomer? It's like Marvel movies but instead of buying plastic power gloves you're buying male tears shirts and go-girl mugs.

HOLY FUCK!!!!! A WOMAN IS DOING SOMETHOING??? SOMTEHING A MAN ALREADY DOES BUT A WOMAN IS DOING IT??? SOMETHING A MAN ALREADY DID A BUNH OF TIMES BUT NOW A WOMAN IS DOING IT?? I NEED TO GET IN ON THIS!!! SHE'S A HERO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

>>17389749
>Knocking over statues of people and shittily translating stories completely erases these things from history

>>17389734
burgers are an endless source of entertainment

>>17391539
It’s just dykes anon

>>17390182
>Feminists must hate the concept of class privilege for pointing out that elite women are exploiters too.
Yeah, but they always have excuses for why they personally aren't as privileged as they appear to be.

>So I might be the assistant director of a fortune 500 company and would be a multi-millionaire even without my trust fund but last week I was asked to make a new pot of coffee and as such I'm just as much a victim of the patriarchy as anyone

>>17391539
>There must be some market for "feminist translation of Beowulf"
Yeah, the public education system.

>>17389749
>yet another fucking imbecile quoting orwell in order to push for their personal agenda

>>17389734
>Bro!
I really, sincerely hope this is real. God, what a trashfire.

>>17390013
No shit that's what we want them to be doing

>>17391314
At least that's it's own work and doesn't market itself as a "translation"

>>17392315
it is https://hyperallergic.com/601269/a-new-feminist-translation-of-beowulf/

>>17392119
>shittily translating stories
People read the fake translations which influences popular culture. Often they're very popular because of gimmicks and dumbing down of the material like OP's example.
>knocking over statues of people
More influential than removing the physical reminder of those historical figures is its use as a form of psychological warfare. It's designed to make people fear positive discussion of these figures, which influences culture

>>17392240
>left wing ideologues destroy statutes, engage in historical revisionism
>anon points it out
>you're trying to push an agenda
how does it fell to be a sub 80 iq retard, animu poster kun?