/lit/ - Literature

>>17384039
Yah, Its kind of a well know fact that he had a bit of a autist seeth towards the guy, your point?

>>17384039
Great book

>>17384044
Nietzscheans (14 years olds) still dispute the fact.

>>17384046
It is a very informative and comprehensive book on Wagner, but it also kind of feels like every time Magee says something originally insightful, it's mixed in with some form of intellectually questionable idea. Like when he contrasts Wagner with Shakespeare, he says that Shakespeare's character is hidden and unseen before all his perfect mimetic creations (an observation by Wagner), but in all of Wagner's works and characters there is his domineering personality, and it kind of leaves Wagner, for being such a great, in an all-too exact, focused and particular light.

But because it's always so slight you just sound like an autist when you talk about them. Too affronting not to be noticed, not important enough to be talked about!

>>17384039
Since this is kind of related. Apparently Goethe was searching for a suitable piece of music to go with his Faust for his whole life, but never found it. Likely because as Beethoven noted in the enormous difficulties of setting Schiller's poem to music, "the music has to top the poem," which would lead Faust to becoming a completely musical work, or it would just have an improved version of the basic incidental music which always accompanies it.

>jealous
Daily reminder that Nietzsche fucked Cosima, and that Richard had to lie about him being a chronic masturbator mainly because N. was becoming the real star of the Wagnerian movement.
Daily reminder that Richard always betrayed all of his friends, with no exception

>>17384962
not even a wagnerfag but this nietzsche-cosima meme is a forced narrative based on nothing but the perverted minds of its perpetrators.as >>17384049 said, nietzscheans do really seem like 14 years olds.
>b-but he fucked his wife bro i swear trust me bro
cringe

>>17385058
Keep coping, Wagner was a back-stabbing crossdressing cuck

>>17384962
Nietzsche was a vigin. Not in the butt tho

>>17385071
the only cuck in question here is nietzsche as his cuckoldry is very well documented. as for wagner's other flaws, i don't care. at the very least his mind was in the right place both philosophically and artistically.

>>17384962
>>17385071
Wagner being called "evil" is just another case hilariously stupid modern propaganda. What, he said a mean word about jews? He was completely free with his opinions? Hardly immoral at all. As for being a crossdresser there's literally no evidence for it.

The only betrayal in Wagner's and Nietzsche's friendship came from Nietzsche.

>>17385176
everyone hated jews or at least didnt care about them

>>17384039
wow another shitty wagner thread

>>17385176
I haven't mentioned the word "evil", nor "jews". Yeah, he probably was evil given how he treated his friends. He certainly had no moral sense, nor he had any regard for the dignity of other human beings.
>The only betrayal in Wagner's and Nietzsche's friendship came from Nietzsche.
True, since Nietzsche boned Cosima. That said, Richard did not know it, which means that his betrayal of N. was completely umprompted: he decided to destroy his reputation just because Nietzsche was getting some recognition as a philosopher.

>>17385653
>True, since Nietzsche boned Cosima.
Is this your fantasy or something? Do you idolise Nietzsche that much that you have to make up storys about him slaying puss?

>Yeah, he probably was evil given how he treated his friends.
And how exactly did he treat his friends? Could you give one example, such as what was so evil that Wagner did to Nietzsche?

nooooooooo, not my nietzscherinoooo

Bump,

I wonder why there's such a strong divide between Nietzsche and Wagner fanbases on here when Hitler reconciled the two.

>>17385653
>unironically calling others evil
You've never went Beyond, brother?

>>17386471
Hitler was a pseud.

>>17386494
He reconciled them in action and his life's philosophy.

>>17386471
hitler clearly favored wagner

when wagner family became anxious over nietzschean trends, hitler made furtwängler deliver a "final word" on the matter and disqualify entire nietzschean criticism in essays and speeches.

>>17386711
All in good time and he would have resurrected Nietzsche. Grand politics is a long term strategy.

>>17386756
>Hitler was just doing 9d chess to later popularise Nietzsche's opinions on Wagner
Literally retarded.

>>17386876
>was just
It's not like I'm saying that he was doing it all for Nietzsche, but he read Nietzsche, knew Nietzsche's sister, and Nietzsche talked a good deal about long term political strategies and working in tandem with contradictory elements.

>>17386895
Anon, if we know anything about Hitler, he didn't make decisions based off abstract philosophical questions or ideas. He made decisions on an extraordinary irrational moral belief (not necessarily bad, what Jung would term intuitivity), or common practical sense.

He undoubtedly was aware of Nietzsche's thoughts about truth, and truth through confrontation, philosophical perplexity and identity, but you're reading too much into it I believe, by thinking Hitler's quieting of Nietzsche here, wasn't just of those particular words and statements of Nietzsche against Wagner, idealising and admiring the rest. Just like his cultural efforts worked with any other figure.

Bump.

>>17388110
>>17386451
no one cares. same retarded thread every day. let it die... let it die.

>>17386494
>Hitler was a pseud

Said the /lit/ poster in 2021 as his cheesy, fat fingers furiously raced across the keyboard

Does anybody know where I can find written copies of the Wagner operas, maybe with annotation like exist for Shakespeare plays? I'd like to read them before I watch them (I can read German too if that makes it easier)

>>17388255
they are all publc domain. dunno about margin commentary versions though.
there are dutchman, tannhäuser and lohengrin with wagner's own foreword which also functioned as another manifesto.
https://archive.org/details/dreioperndichtu00wagngoog/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Communication_to_My_Friends

another important commentary are liszt's in "dramaturgische blätter", which were like liner notes to the wagner-premieres at weimar during 1850s, usually part of listzt's collected literary works.

>>17388419
It's amazing how unread Wagner's prose works are, literally revolutionary for their time.