/lit/ - Literature

Baudrillard, America
Guenon, Reign of Quantity
Heidegger's political writings, like The Origin of the Work of Art

The antidote: Francis, Leviathan and its Enemies

>>17373343
>To Jared Taylor "Francis was the premier philosopher of white racial consciousness of our time".[8]
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_T._Francis
So his antidote is white nationalism?

>>17373343
>The antidote: Francis, Leviathan and its Enemies
TL;DR?

>>17373840
garth brooks was a communist.
any questions?

>>17373343
absolutely based answers right here

>>17373386
Racial consciousness and nationalism not necessarily the same thing. The woke are now advocating a form of white racial consciousness as well.

>>17373313
>struggling with identity and culture as an American
lol, there is no "identity" in america outside of class

>>17373313
lasch's culture of narcissism

>>17374527
Wildly untrue, the urban middle class despise the suburban/rural middle and working class, and are utterly terrified of ever being confused with them. Every single cultural signal they give is an attempt to seem closer to being a coastal elite than a redneck

>>17374739
>theres no class identity
>look at how these people hate being misidentified by their class

>>17374739
dude i know this chick that came from venezuela is obsessed with anarchism and now lives in new york.
I just messaged her on facebook and said i always thought youd be more of a cali girl lol.

>>17374756
you've misread either my post, or the post I replied to. I pointed out an identity in the US that is not based on economic class, in response to a post that said 'there is no identity in america outside of class'.

>>17374779
>urban white collar class hate being identified as working class
>THESE ARE NOT THE SAME ECONOMIC CLASS
t. retard

>>17374818
I said
>the urban middle class despise the suburban/rural middle and working class,
The urban and suburban/rural middle class are the same economic class, but have very different identities.

>>17374442
Okay so I’m still not seeing how that is a solution to the predicament in OP. In fact, it’s almost a perfect illustration of the inevitable tragedy of the situation.

>>17374527
...hence the OP...

You really just wanted to inject your politics here though didn’t you?

So far the answers have been either hurr durr class or hurr durr race which is just the most tragic and ironic yet expected set of responses you could’ve possibly received.

>>17374982
And the geographic divide between the rural and urban.

>>17373313
Definitely almost anything from Hunter S Thompson. Really exposed the underbelly of the country.

>>17374992
Sure, but that doesn’t exactly satisfy the OP either. It wasn’t explicitly political.

>>17374982
just read Baudrillard. he was literally mentioned in the video you linked.

>>17375045
The rural/urban divide is not explicitly political either, they're entirely different cultures and identities.

>>17374739
>>17374779
>>17374833
The other guy is right, the urban middle-class is only interested in culture as long as it acts as a signifier for class. They read The New Yorker not because they like it but because coastal elites do so. Same shit with the working class. What do the poor do for culture if not drink beer and watch ESPN?

>>17373313
>Any books about struggling with identity and culture as an American?
That seems to be the case for all the people living in the American continent, not just America the country. In Latin America during the XIX and XX century sprung up many essayists and philosophers trying to answer the question of what it meant to be Argentinian, Mexican, Peruvian etc. The ones I've read all seem to agree that, in our case, up to that point and even today, nationality was something that had to be built, that was in construction. Seems to me that most of what they envisioned failed. In Perú, for example, Mariátegui's vision of Peruvianity never actually took place; in Mexico Paz' and his predecessors’ vision also failed, probably because of how artificial it was. Globalization was probably the last nail in the coffin for this to have happened, but most of those projects were probably doomed to fail.
The difference between Latin Americans and Americans seems to be to me that you Americans never seemed to be aware of how flimsy the concept of our nations actually is, never bothered very much with trying to define and create your nation. I might be wrong though, and being aware of that is not necessarily helpful or positive or anything.
But I don’t have any recs sorry.

>>17375096
The middle class don't pretend to be rich by reading the New Yorker. You pretend to be rich by buying a showy watch or car that you can't afford, something that the middle class people in question here would see as gauche.

Reading the New Yorker and living in a coastal metropolis offers you a consumer identity of cultural superiority to your economic peers in flyover land. It's not a class identity, it's a cultural identity. The middle and upper class also literally imitate certain cultural signals of the criminal underclass. There is more going on here than just money.

>>17373313
Just keep searching anon. Everything is going to be ok.

>>17375061
A “divide” is not a culture. It’s a distinction and nothing else.

>>17375104
>The difference between Latin Americans and Americans seems to be to me that you Americans never seemed to be aware of how flimsy the concept of our nations actually is, never bothered very much with trying to define and create your nation.
Not true. Americans simply believed in it or didn’t care. If we didn’t believe in this liberal nation-state experiment, we had the recent ethnic heritage and language to fall back on. Only now has that become too blurry and those nation states of our former homelands disowned us that things are different.

>>17375530
>Americans simply believed in it or didn’t care
Yes but that's precisely my point, I don't say it with the intent of offending Americans, it's just a difference I've noticed between you Americans and us Latin Americans. As you say, you simply believed in the concept of your nation. In Latin America that did not happen, there was always an anxiety regarding the concept of our nations. An anxiety which is probably very similar to the one OP was talking about.
In one of Paz' essays he mentions how being Mexican entails a feeling of "what the fuck am I doing in this land" –the only time I agree with him. Recently I found out that's a feeling that is also part of how Australians define themselves, and it seems to be one found in most if not all Latin American countries too. You, for example, find it in Argentinian literature very much. I feel that might be the feeling OP was referring to, and the maybe the one you're referring to too, although I don't really get what you mean with
> Only now has that become too blurry and those nation states of our former homelands disowned us that things are different.

>>17375104
>The difference between Latin Americans and Americans seems to be to me that you Americans never seemed to be aware of how flimsy the concept of our nations actually is, never bothered very much with trying to define and create your nation. I might be wrong though, and being aware of that is not necessarily helpful or positive or anything.

Until we started letting c*ntinentals and others in the US was very much WASP through and through. You had the blacks in the south and pockets of French or Dutch or whatever but the overarching ethos was very much Anglo-Saxon and Protestant.

>>17375514
The cultures in rural and urban American are completely different. Not sure why you keep trying to deny this very obvious fact

>>17375626
Rural living is not a culture or set of traditions. If you’d watched the video in the OP, you’d understand why it’s irrelevant.

>>17375799
I didnt say it was, I said the people living in rural areas have a different culture(s) than the ones living in urban areas. If you don't know this I imagine you have literally never spent any time in a rural area

>>17375612
>I don't really get what you mean with
For non-WASP Americans of European ancestry, there was as you described this sense of identity that had roots in the place they came from whether that was Ireland, Italy, whatever. It’s not until the last 1 or 2 generations that it’s been totally dismantled either through genetic mixing or just a detachment from those places and their old ways. At the same time, Europeans have largely disowned and come to dislike their American cousins. An Italian-American in 1900 may have been American but he at least felt himself to be also Italian, and belonging to a place which has traditions that are essentially ancient. Today, their offspring might not even be genetically Italian enough for that to even make sense so their left with the “-American” part and therein lies the problem since America has no pre-national roots, not body of traditions, no clearly articulated culture. So what do you have? To be American is to reject tradition in totality and as the video in the OP mentions that is a horrifying revelation of personal crisis and one I’ve felt myself. My blood isn’t native to this land, or any other land anymore either really.

>>17375813
It’s not relevant to the OP

>>17375824
America has a bunch of distinct cultures that have evolved for centuries, based mostly on which groups of Europeans came to which regions.

>>17375828
Yes it is relevant, there are cultures and identities in America. Just because OP and you don't feel you have one doesn't change that.

>>17375837
No. You’re missing the point entirely. The premise here is that American roots are inherently revolutionary and anti-traditional. There is no American culture which exists prior to the rise of the nation-state unless you’re maybe a a WASP. For some others, that won’t be a problem but for others it spurs a deep crisis. The distinction between rural and urban has little to do with it since that’s not a body of traditions but merely a matter of present circumstance.

>>17375620
Ethnic homogeneity is probably a reason for why you didn't doubt the concept of your nation at first, but I feel that what's more decisive is the fact that you made a cleaner break with your past and tried to start more or less anew. In Latin America, in contrast, we never knew how to define ourselves, and we tried to find the answers in the past. The questions always were are we Europeans? Are we Spaniards? Are we Indigenous? If we're not any of these things then what the fuck are we?
Even if you hadn't accepted other Europeans and whatnot, I'm not sure if you wouldn't have felt an anxiety about the concept of America eventually. I feel that's always bound to come up in cases like ours, where we are not really "native" to these lands, where we know that we're an offshoot of other existing nations.
>>17375824
>It’s not until the last 1 or 2 generations that it’s been totally dismantled either through genetic mixing or just a detachment from those places and their old ways
I agree with what you're saying but I don't believe that you can attribute it to genetic mixing. Culture is not determined biologically. They got assimilated into the American way of life, which is something America does very well, but I get what you’re trying to say.
>America has no pre-national roots, not body of traditions, no clearly articulated culture. So what do you have?
> My blood isn’t native to this land, or any other land anymore either really.
Yes, that’s exactly what I’ve been trying to say and that’s the reason why I believe nations like Australia, Mexico, Perú, Argentina etc. feel an anxiety regarding themselves. They know themselves to not belong to their lands, to be the descendants of other nations. But there was a point where an Australian could not call himself British anymore, or where a Mexican could not call himself a Spaniard anymore. So what are they now? That’s what these nations have tried to answer and never really could. My point is, that anxiety you feel about America as a nation is not unique to America, and for me it seems to be common to all nations that’re the descendants of other nations in foreign lands.
I don’t feel I’ve made my point very clearly but I think more or less you can see what I mean.

>>17375892
>I agree with what you're saying but I don't believe that you can attribute it to genetic mixing.
I’m just using it as an example since your genetics would obviously imply a specific culture. If it doesn’t, then the situation is even more dire honestly.

I think the difference with Australia or Mexico is that Australians afaik are essentially British and Mexicans essentially Spanish or Native. It’s a problem all new worlders face but if they’re not satiated by the identities offered to them by their modern nation states, they have somewhat clearly identifiable old world cultures or else pre-colonial culture that they could grab into even if it’s difficult. In truth, only America is predicated on the total leveling anything old and the severe inter-mixing of peoples to the point of total ambiguity. It completely dismantled an old sense of identity and leaves absolutely nothing old to cling onto. America accomplished organically in just a few generations what communist revolutions in places like China or Russia could only ever dream of.

>>17375832
Albion's Seed goes over this.

>>17375096
The smoothbrained Marxist conception of class as being solely rooted in income is, ironically, one greatly preferred by the upper class in America precisely because it removes all capacity from human interaction and social structuring from everything except the economic.

>>17374527
American is one of the clearest and most pronounced identity in the world, this is an absurd claim

>>17374756
He is actually saying that the Urban Middle Class has nothing but hate for their equals who live in Rural and Suburban

>Atlanta
>Deep South
lol

>>17373313
Appalachia is the only place with soul
The rest is soulless
New England used to have soul

>>17373313
You don't have a culture or identity as an American, as in a subject of the American Economic Zone. Don't worry about it, everyone else in the world is just in denial that they live in mere economic zones as well.

>>17373313
I really get pessimistic about the world when people are drawn to hacks like this and hacks like Peterson, IDW, Evola, Guenon, Kaczynski, Blumpf, BAP, youtube debatelords, and other reactionary clowns. Makes me feel like living the rest of my life in quietude instead to get away from all the stupidity. I can't find a sense of hope any where. I hope it is only like this in burgerland and that elsewhere isn't as intellectually bankrupt.

>>17378554
>I hope it is only like this in burgerland and that elsewhere isn't as intellectually bankrupt.
Sort of. People are more chill elsewhere and there is no need to turn to this crap as much. At least that is my experience having lived in the US and Europe. Something about the American experience makes people miserable. Maybe it is just the condition of living in the coastal states.

>>17378772
imagine living in a city that's 20% white in a "western first-world" country that has needle-lined designated shitting streets, drug addict and homeless encampments, legalized property crime, racial struggle sessions, etc.

It does things to you

>>17378554
Motherfucker you're literally copy pasting this into different threads. The world will improve if you kill yourself.

>>17378851
>imagine
I don’t have to...