/lit/ - Literature

>>17347841
>not receiving cosmic sutras from the Buddha before a host of supermen
ngmi

>>17347841
tfw vajrayanachad

Okay how is Mahayana shit about the eternal bliss of purelands etc. not a form of craving?

Why do I like shit posting on twitter more than becoming enlightened and doing zazen? Is there something wrong with me?

>>17348061
>A Taoist observed a buddhist meditating every day. He asked why he did this. The buddhist said to become a buddha. The Taoist started to take a rock and polish it every day. The buddhist asked why he did this. The Taoist said I will polish this rock until it becomes a mirror. The buddhist said but that is impossible no matter how long you polish it

>>17348090
based

>>17348090
human beings are not purely 'rock', or hyle. we have a psychic component that can be 'cured' through breathing of pneuma. You are an anti gnostic shill and will be reincarnated btw.

The Pali (Pajeet) canon was written hundreds of years after the life of noted Scythian sage, Gautama. Read Greek Buddha by Beckwith. The earliest Buddhists had no sangha, and were more akin to wandering mystics. The Mahayana tradition began in Central Asia; where the Scythians lived, and thus is more authentic. Oh, and the Buddha is also Lao Tzu.

>>17348038

I think you get reincarnated into the pure land due to devotion, it’s less about the craving and more of the attachment and false identification

>>17348090
>The buddhist said but that is impossible no matter how long you polish it
This is wrong, it could become reflective I bet if he did it long enough

>>17347841
>Mahayana-Sutras
>>And lo 6 million bodhisattvas sat on a mountain of smaragds and their eyes shines like a million suns and they chanted " Oh master buddha the truth you announce in this suttra is truely the truth that all your previous teachings and all 6 bajillion previous eternal buddhas aluded to and gazing upon this suttra will awaken the awakening in every paying follower
bugmen monks copied hindu style, because they were hindus all along

>>17348038
bcos pure land represents samadhi, no more a craving than the pursuit of enlightenment

>>17348494
>combining the terminology and metaphysics of 2 different religions to shitpost on 4chan
ngmi, hylic.

>>17348551
>Mahayana tradition began in Central Asia; where the Scythians lived, and thus is more authentic. Oh, and the Buddha is also Lao Tzu.
Try harder, m*slim

>>17347841

>>17350525
yeah right.
>i hope i get reborn in a beautiful landscape without stress or work where everything is nice and calm
>no i'm not craving for it. woulen't mind tho haha :^)

>>17350552
sure, but you can make the same argument for the pursuit of nirvana - it requires both craving and faith, you crave the goal (non-suffering) and you gotta have faith in your abilities to attain it as well as the buddhist method of attaining it

>>17348061
Maybe because you have doubts? I used to shitpost and debate endlessly in these threads, but now that I have much more confidence in the path I wish to follow, I mostly lurk and don't waste time arguing.

>>17350588
The desire for Nirvana is always said to be a "productive" desire and not one to be abandoned until you become an arahant.

sometimes i consider joining a monastery to escape life, do they let you in even if you have zero interest in enlightenment, maybe i'd attain it as a consequence of my lack of interest in it, does it work like that idk

>>17350616
just move to the countryside and get a job helping out on a farm idiot. or better yet do an internship there for 3 months and realise that's just larp.

>>17350616
not if you tell them. But you can larp a bit. Also they make you train for 1 year.

try a 14day or 3 month retreat first.

>>17350547
>1587750960304
lol

>>17348551
Pic. related

>>17350532
You do realize no religion has been more harmful to the Dharma than Islam? You do ALSO realize that Gandhara/Bactria, and by extension most of modern day Central Asia, Afghanistan, and Pakistan was majority Buddhist, and stayed that way, up until the 900s? They also adopted Buddhism way earlier than the East, and were the ones who *transmitted* it to the East. Bodhidharma, Guru Rinpoche, Lokaksema, Kanishka, (so on and so forth) were ALL FROM CENTRAL ASIA. The Kalachakra Tantra refers to Islam as the inverse of Dharma; an Anti-Dharma.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XzORav0DbUA
You're braindead. You shouldn't be allowed to post here.

>>17350616
They expect a lot from you in monastery life, it isn't a place to be lazy or lukewarm unless you are in certain parts of southeast Asia where institutional Buddhism is corrupt and degenerate. So no, it doesn't work like that.

>>17350616
Try going a week without using the internet first.

>>17350743
i'm not averse to hard work, i just don't want to have a job, pay rent and all the rest of it. i don't mind sweeping floors or cleaning dishes, i can even sit still if that's required of me, but i don't care about nirvana and other buddhist concepts, if i don't confess that, how can they know

>>17350753
the idea of never staring at a screen again sounds like heaven, i went without it for some time before when i taught esl in afrikkka, so i dont think that's a big obstacle

>>17350774
>if i don't confess that, how can they know
that probably depends on where you go. Buddhism is a big religion, there are many sects and many institutions managed by many different people. In any case I'm not very interested in helping you if you are planning on trying this under false pretenses, but it doesn't really matter because it sounds like an idle fantasy and you would almost certainly wash out very quickly.

>>17350743
Not him, I'd really like to join a thai forest monastery but all of them are outside of my country. Do the monasteries take care of all the visa stuff, or am I basically fucked (especially with the current travel restrictions)?

Are you talking about going to Asia? What part of the world do you live in?

>>17351200
Democratic Republic of Kongo

>>17351200
The monastery I'm looking into is Metta in the USA, and possibly Wat Pah Nanachat in Thailand. I live in Europe

>>17348090
Based

Alright /lit/ tell me which is the best, Taoism, Buddhism or Confucianism?

>>17351219
I think you're up shit creek for travel restrictions. Although I will say, it is better to find something local to you than to travel a long ways, because in the latter case you either have to stay abroad for a long time or come back without bringing the social connections you made back with you, and you will end almost as isolated as you began. There could be a teacher or dharma center of some kind closer to home not in thai forest tradition, and if so you should find that out before you think about going overseas. It's more important to find a good teacher than to practice within the correct sect or institution. I hope I'm not condescending to you too much but I actually know a guy who did go to Thailand for several months, specifically to a Thai forest monastery and when he got back (to western Canada) he was completely alone and his meditation practice petered out into nothing without social support or guidance from teachers. He enjoyed his time there very much but it may not be all that much good to you when you come back home and have no Buddhist scene to return to. I'm not telling you not to do it (travel conditions permitting obviously), but at the very least you should consider looking into what's available nearer to you as well.

>>17351250
Confucianism: Virtues and their way
Taoism: the way and it's virtue
Buddhism is shit tier.

>>17351250
Buddhism

>>17351287
There's barely anything local here. Some zen stuff but I looked into it and it's closer to the infamous "mindfulness for your office space" westernized practice than actual zen. And I'm not that much into zen in the first place.
>stay abroad for a long time
This is what I want, I'm not looking for a retreat but ordination. I specifically mentioned Metta because I think the teaching style there would be a good fit.

>>17351452
>it's closer to the infamous "mindfulness for your office space" westernized practice than actual zen
What in your opinion is actual zen and how is mindfulness for your office opposed to it?

>>17351488
>actual zen
Zazen, for one, and probably studying koans.
Also I don't think zazen is the same thing as mindfulness meditation, and the latter is fine, I didn't say it was bad, but if you're going to have a meditation center that doesn't actually have anything to do with zen buddhism and simply teaches how to practice mindfulness, why call it zen?

>>17350547
vajrayanachads checking in.

>>17348551
>the Buddha is also Lao Tzu.
that makes a a lot of sense to me desu
it seemed like the philosophy of modern Buddhism lines up a lot better with Taoism, and some old Hindu yogisim

>>17348551
>The Mahayana tradition began in Central Asia; where the Scythians lived, and thus is more authentic.
top kek, spiritual globohomos really have no critical thinking

>>17351787
except it doesn't make sense at all since the two views are incompatible

>>17351250
the Confucius pill is sweet but rots your teeth with the retarded belief in the perfectibility of mankind through being a gentleman.
The Taoist pill would be sweet and healthy in an unfallen world in which women give birth with no pain and men provide for their family without sweat.
The Buddhist pill is correct on the problem of Evil and the fallen nature of existence but having received no Revelation it can only advocate for a "serene" detachment which in reality is little more than death in life.
It is the highest height pagan philosophy and religion has achieved.

>>17351787
>that makes a a lot of sense to me desu
>it seemed like the philosophy of modern Buddhism lines up a lot better with Taoism
It doesn't though. Taoism doesn't know cuckshit like Samsara, or that life is just suffering, and rebirth, and karma.

>>17351875
>life is just suffering
t. has never read anything at all about buddhism except 4chan posts

>>17351875
>Taoism doesn't know cuckshit like Samsara, or that life is just suffering, and rebirth, and karma
Hence why Taoism will always be superior

>>17351885
You're wrong.

>>17351887
you mispelled inferior.
Original sin is an OBVIOUS thing, everyone knows the world is diseased.

>>17351896
The world has no intensions. You're diseased

>>17351893
Then if you've read about buddhism and still think it states that life is suffering, you're simply stupid.

>>17351250
Confucianism makes for good worldly wisdom.
Taoism is entertaining.
Buddhism has no redeeming feature whatsoever.

>>17351907
No it's quite explicit on that. You just try to fit it into your own worldview.

>>17351925
Whatever you want to believe.
Dukkha doesn't mean suffering, by the way.

>>17351904
yes I am just like the world and everything and everyone in it. The universe is a rotting carcass and the only respite is being brought out of it.

>>17351934
Will you start arguing for your claims if they are so obvious or do you just meltdown like the faggot you are?

>>17350033
cope

buddhists and hindus can't escape this fundamental inconsistency, no matter how hard they try

>>17351288
This

>>17351933
yes it does

>>17351875
>life is just suffering, and rebirth, and karma
The First Noble Truth, idham dukkahm, means "pain is". "Life is suffering" is a poor translation of this statement, intending to mean "pain is a part of life".

>>17348038
The Pure Lands are just rebirth in special places that are more conducive to enlightenment. You still have to do the work, you just don't do it here (blah blah blah >you blah blah blah). Is this a copout? Many Mahayana thought so, and think so. "Orthodox" Pure Land was viewed as an abominable heresy for much of Buddhist history, and the conflict between "Orthodox" Pure Land and non-Pure Land was quite vicious.

Do people crave rebirth in the Pure Land? Absolutely. That's something you'll have to work on in the Pure Land.

>Thus I have heard. 6 million bodhisattvas sat on a mountain of smaragds and their eyes shines like a million suns and they chanted " Oh master buddha the truth you announce in this suttra is truely the truth that all your previous teachings and all 6 bajillion previous eternal buddhas aluded to and gazing upon this suttra will awaken the awakening in every paying follower

>>17351950
melting down?
I'm estatic.

>>17352021
Eh. I'd prefer Pure Land to Nirvana every day of the week.

>>17347841
This is why Mahayana is kino but vajrayana is even better

>>17352006
Nope. Stay ignorant.

>>17352046
>*opens the Princeton Dictionary of Buddhism at Dukkha*
>it says suffering
interesting

>>17352035
You don't get to stay in a Pure Land. The "bliss" of Pure Lands is setup in such a manner as to be conducive to enlightenment. It's not like Islamic Jannah, with fair maidens feeding you grapes and young boys to fuck and whatever. It's a very shiny, very peaceful monastery.

And you can still die, and will still be reborn if you don't succeed in the goal while there.

>>17352068
it just meant samadhi up until people started taking the upaya meant for peasants at face value

>>17352068
>You don't get to stay in a Pure Land. The "bliss" of Pure Lands is setup in such a manner as to be conducive to enlightenment. It's not like Islamic Jannah, with fair maidens feeding you grapes and young boys to fuck and whatever. It's a very shiny, very peaceful monastery.
>And you can still die, and will still be reborn if you don't succeed in the goal while there.
Source?

>>17352058
>being purposefully obtuse and disingenuous
Boring, I'm done with you

>>17352085
>gets refuted
>hurr durr i'm so above actual arguments
Buddshits everyone

>>17352097
not a buddhist lmao
keep seething retard

>>17350822
Ordaining is harder than it seems, you need to take care of your own visa and expenses, monasteries won't take you just because you ask nicely, most will ask that you first do a lay retreat for a few weeks and require a delay between that retreat and asking for ordination, which can fuck with your visa plans. Some monasteries (like the one in Switzerland) don't even allow new people to ordain there and ask that they go to the "western hub" of the forest sangha, in the UK.
I don't know how things go in the American and Thai monasteries so maybe someone can chime in for this. I'm guessing you need to do a retreat where you want to ordain (and not in another place), then ask for ordination if it went well

lol these threads always deliver

>>17352084
Longer and Shorter Sukhavativyuha Sutras. A Pure Land isn't some special transcendent realm, it's just a pocket-universe in the multi-verse setup by a Bodhisattva of great power. It's just "another place" "in" Samsara. It's a very nice place, and one conducive to enlightenment, more so than our world, but it's "just" a place. It's subject to all of the rules that everywhere else is, Amitabha has just taken great pains to set the place up to be as conducive to enlightenment as possible.

>>17352126
/lit/ is a terrible place to discuss any kind of religion, let alone Buddhism. People should read the relevant scripture and not put any credence at all to anything being said here, including this post.

>>17352085
You were BTFO. Buddhism is a nihilistic, anti-life, bugman religion

>>17352120
Considering the current state of international travel, is nobody ordaining anymore? Except native thais I guess.

>>17351864
>It is the highest height pagan philosophy and religion has achieved.

Nah, that's Egyptian hermeticism.

>>17352381
how do you figure?
what can I read about it?

>>17352381
Based and Thoth pilled

>>17352381
>>17352393
It's actually neoplatonism

>>17352398
Based and Hen pilled

>>17352404
Hen pilled?

>>17352411
The Hen is another name for the One

Wasn't Hermes Greek? Do we have any actual sources on egyptian... philosophy/mysticism?

>>17352434
Very little. Rare sources like the book of the dead are too thin to reconstruct their tradition. The Greeks talked a bit (though little, and spread out) about what they read in Egypt but that's only a very late, post third collapse culture that we know to be quite different from the pre-kangz days in terms of material civilization, art, social structure, etc.

>>17352434
>>17352641
Read Uždavinys and Assmann

>>17352693
link?

>>17352710
Link to what? I assure you these are the only major scholars of ancient religion with those surnames.

>>17352728
Yeah but if I google assmann I'm not sure I will find the exact book you had in mind

>>17352739
>>17352728
I actually did nvm

>>17348551
Hello Jason.

>>17352434
Hermes, and the epithet "Thrice Great" are purely Greek ("Thrice Great" shows up precisely nowhere in Egyptian literature pre-Hermeticism, but it's very common in Mycenaean works). However, Hermeticism certainly has non-Greek influences as there are elements present that are not found in Greek philosophy or religion. While Egyptian (and Near-Eastern, which includes Semites but also Indo-European Anatolians and non-IE-non-Semitic Anatolians) influence upon the Greeks is often discussed, the opposite, Greek influence on those around them, ESPECIALLY in the Hellenistic period, is often overlooked.

Hermeticism is a Greco-Egyptian syncreticism. Where one begins and the other ends is pure navel gazing.

>>17347841
I was once on /pol/ and someone claimed khan academy was "evil"
Explain that to me

>>17353766
It's /pol/, everything that exists is evil and the result of the jew

>>17352021
dukkha means suffering, sorrow, distress. I don't think that translation is poor
t. Indian

>>17347841
Wouldn't this just be niggas attaching myths and religious stories they made up to the Buddha and what he did as essentially a wandering mystic philosopher? Also, I was wondering what exactly reincarnates in buddhism if a self doesn't ultimately exist and we are all aggregates. Do my aggregates and false ego, personality, and memories get thrown into a new body like how it seems to work in Tibetan Buddhism or is it more my awareness and consiousness in which case isnt this a type of pantheism to say consiousness pervades the universe and condenses in the form of beings like people and then goes on to form other consious people after their death. Just like how my atoms go on to form other physical entities after I die? I haven't read Indra's Net yet but does it tie back to this? Like is Buddhism similar to Panpscyhism? Also of there are monads of consiousness and atoms/sub atomic particles do they remain duel or is matter simply consiously held ideas or do they condense into a neutral third substance?
Also, I know buddhism aims to end suffering for all beings so does that make it a sort of utilitarianism? Or is it really non cognitive as perhaps what we do doesnt ultimately matter and one can reject trying to obtain nirvana?
Not to mention what is nirvana? I know it is called blowing out and likened to a candle. Is it like a ego death, the ability to quickly transform suffering into something neutral, a place, etc? I mean the buddha still had to have suffered after enlightenment, he had a body afterall that came with aches and pains.

If any of you would like to vc about this or talk about it in a text channel feel free to join my discord. sKgx3esa

>>17352084
>Jannah
>Jhana
what if we were the real sufis all along

>>17354321
What if nirvana was the friends we made along the way?

>>17352021
>the conflict between "Orthodox" Pure Land and non-Pure Land was quite vicious
Where can I read more about that?

>>17351250
Taosim is better imo in that it doesn't explicitly tells you to let go of the real, perceivable world or confine you to very rigid behavioral tenets. It's literally "just flow with it, bro" the religion.

>>17354857
Look into the history and main figures of Shin Buddhism, it was a populist movement looked unfavorably upon by the aristocracy who supported Zen. And because it was aimed at the peasantry much of their upaya was misinterpreted and led to heretical cults who believed in crazy shit like thinking that doing evil would lead to rebirth in the Pure Land.

google: Honen, Shinran, Rennyo, Ikko Ikki, Kaga Rebellion

The Theravada view is, sadly, all too limited. We should try not for our own escape from Samsara, but the escape of all sentient beings. This is the ideal of a bodhisattva.

>>17355558
No thanks I'll focus on myself

>>17350774
Me too. I want to find a monastery and relax. I have too much anxiety, no interest in friends or family or a career. So I lready have few attachments.

>>17355558
No. All beings must do their own work.

Who else SOTO?

Who else S O T O ?
-cool black robes
-no mysticism
- no striving
- sit all day with your bros

>>17356027
>>17356040
Soto Zen is a cancer. Literally the most libcucked "buddhism" in existence.

>>17356203
So what? That doesn't change if it's true or not.

>>17355558
And it's not buddhism.

>>17351960

what fundamental inconsistencies? Buddhism and Hinduism both speak of alternate realms

>>17356203
Lol you've poisoned your mind anon, calling Soto libcucked? It might be time to relax a bit and logoff for awhile

>>17356040
I get the appeal of Zen but it's really not my thing. Suzuki's book was good though.

Therevada and Mahayana are going to just keep competing forever. Mahayana seems more rebellious to me

>>17359858
They don't really compete. No school of Buddhism has an evangelizing component, aside from Nichiren. Theravadins do their thing and Mahayanists as well, neither is really trying to one-up the other.

>>17359866
I think it would be fun to watch monks from either sect interact with each other

>>17350547
Kek, based

>>17350547
Lol

>>17352404
featherless biped

>>17360006
They'd probably greet each other politely and talk about mundane monk things and would definitely not have an autistic debate about which sect is more based.

Is zazen the best cope to realizing life is meaningless?

>>17356203
why is that

>>17360814
thats the first noble truth and the reality of dukkha my friend

>>17360814
that would be a shotgun actually