/lit/ - Literature

>>17338045
cringe thread
Bergson is based

based retard OP getting filtered by basic facts

don't plants get happy when you play them music and sad when you cut them? they seem to have a minimal level of consciousness

>>17338055
>>17338090
>>17338099
OK shizos. plants don't know they're plants and animals don't know they're animals, which means they're not conscious

>>17338045
Venus fly traps can count https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2016/01/the-venus-fly-trap-counts-the-struggles-of-its-prey/424782/

>>17338109
consciousness is a scale. I am more conscious than a baby. but the baby is conscious

>>17338109
You dk who you are

>>17338109
That would be selfconsciousness.

what is the gist of plant conciousness? i've wondered what it means to be alive and while i recognize bugs as having the same observer perspective of life as me, i have wondered what being alive means for plants, should i read this book?

>>17338136
Someone should order consciousness on a scale in set theory so we see what level brings self-consciousness

>>17338109
There are numerous studies about the cognizance of animals. If you put a mark on a dolphin's fin they will rush to a mirror to look at it. I'm pretty sure they know they're animals. At least, they know they're different than humans.

Plants respond negatively to being eaten, btw.

>>17338137
They can move they have senses but probably just in the this feels good type like just being all skin and some skin movements make you feel more good than others because you're being fed

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0vrsO3_HpU&ab_channel=RanunculusAcris

thread soundtrack

>>17338153
Idk what torture is like for a plant but they don't have a nervous system so we good. It's probably just annoying

>>17338167
Stop commenting on every thread

>>17338109
You don't know you're a twat, which means you're not conscious

>>17338181
?

>>17338109
Based NPC poster who thinks he's the center of the universe because it's his nature to do so

>>17338045
the Bible tells us that animals, i.e., the things which have breath (of Elohim) or the beasts, i.e., the things which have breath (of Elohim) are nephesh, i.e., souls, conscious beings. It also says that humans became living nephesh, i.e., animalia when God breathed into them. If this is the angle from which you deny the consciousness of animals, then know that even then your position is untenable.

>>17338199
Have thread poem or something

Bergson is based but his book on religion is pretty gay

>>17338045
Didn't this guy get debunked by Einstein? What's the point of reading him?

>>17338045
My doggie is sentient

>>17338897
is your dog a bomb defuser?

>>17338903
She’s female and a member of K9 bomb disposal :)
actually it’s just a jacket for when it gets cold

Are there any good overviews of Bergson other than Deleuze's?

>>17338897
What a lovely dog, I hope she stays warm.

>>17338284
The book of Abajakak tells us that you are a fagit

this is one of those things that I believe is true but also is cringe when people try too hard to prove that its true

>>17339104
Because they usually try to prove it for gay shit

>>17339104
>>17339113
Once you figure out consciousness you can figure out iq etc

>>17338099
>>17338128
>>17338130
>>17338137
>>17338153
Vegans and nihilistic hedonists on suicide watch

>>17339287
Not at all. It’s not clear plants experience pain, but they experience a kind of consciousness. Even with insects, you kinda wonder if they even have the chemical make up to understand pain. Tear a leg off a cockroach and they just keep going like fuckin robots

As for nihilists, they’re always going to be btfo’d retroactively

>>17338045
They literally are. Plants can even feel pain.

https://www.sciencetimes.com/articles/24473/20191218/a-group-of-scientists-suggest-that-plants-feel-pain.htm

>>17339287
>nihilistic hedonists
Only use those words if you actually know what they mean, retard

>>17339338
> implying nihilism and hedonism don't go hand in hand nowadays

>>17339326
Wouldn't surprise me, whatever chemical reaction they have that causes them to release some other chemical in defense or whatever could be associated with an experience of pain just as our neuronal system is.

>>17339326
>>17339587
It is overwhelmingly likely plants feel pain, as their chemical reactions to harm are eerily similar to an animal's pain stimuli, and even if it wasn't so likely, consciousness cannot be observed from the outside
Only coping vegans and nihilists deny this

>>17338259
retarded retard poster who hasnt realized that he is literally the center of the known universe.

Obligatory "you're a retard" comment: you're a retard.

>>17338045
If an animal has no form of consciousness, then we can prove that consciousness isn’t real. We don’t want to come to that conclusion.

>>17338109
>plants don't know they're plants and animals don't know they're animals
Fascinating. Do the crows in the wallmart parking lot think they’re human then? Why do oak trees convey simple messages to other oak trees if they do not know they’re oaks?

>>17338170
>don't have a nervous system
They do, plant root systems connect with each other and give out messsages to each other.

>>17339621
Literally ever complex organism on earth feels pain. It’s one of the most basic things you need to be a successful lifeform.

>>17340393
>tfw the weird tree is sending your roots signals but you don't want to be mean to him

>>17339320
>It's not clear plants experience pain
They respond to damage by signaling to other nearby plants to prep their defenses. That's what the scent of damaged flowers and wood do. If you were an alien incapable of understanding language humans screaming in agony as you peel off their skin would seem roughly identical to plants releasing pheromones when you snip off their stems.

>>17340430
This is fucking blowing my mind. Does that mean that eating literally anything is inherently immoral?

>>17340408
>be me
>always running out of energy
>decide to tap some off my neighbors because they always have some to spare
>redwoods nurture their young so she obliges
>free food
>ywn have mommy redwood gf
Envy me

>>17340449
Only if you define inflicting pain as immoral
The alternative conclusion is that morality of eating must be non-identical with pain of the prey species, which is why it btfos moral veganism and vegeterianism. Everything we eat experiences pain in some form, therefore you can't "reduce the inflicted pain" by eating plants instead of animals.

>>17340449
>immoral?
No
You are a heterotroph. You eat things. There is no morality involved

>>17340399
this. it's a very handy survival tool.

>>17338045
They obviously respond to stimuli. People put too much into consciousness like it's some thing we'll never grasp.

>>17340513
Literally because of humanist egalitarianism. Justifying that all people deserve to be treated equally by everyone requires justifying that humans all share some unique quality that makes them brothers. You can't say it's love from God because only part of the population believes in God, so you have to find something else. Therefore, you invent an increasingly esoteric definition of consciousness to justify saying only your arbitrary definition of human has that special consciousness. In reality, a dog has it as much as a human as much as a plant. Probably even bacteria have a primitive consciousness. But obviously bacteria aren't equivalent to humans and shouldn't be treated equally, so consciousness can't be the only criterion for equal treatment.

>>17340545
What pill is this?

peanut brain: man alone is conscious

small brain: man alone is conscious proper and some animals are sort of conscious

medium brain: man and animals and plants are on a spectrum of consciousness proper

big brain: even stones "respond to stimuli" in ways qualitatively indistinguishable from from man and animals and plants therefore consciousness itself can be said to be a buddhist meme

galaxy brain: the individual alone being conscious and all else seeming unconscious is the triumph of the monad maintaining itself even in the delirium of the phenomenal and dialectically so wherein two individuals perceiving themselves as such do not contradict each other

>>17342213
>even stones "respond to stimuli" in ways qualitatively indistinguishable from from man and animals and plants
Such as?

>>17342487

They make noise when struck.

>>17342504
Is that really a conscious reaction?