/lit/ - Literature

>>17334359
Almost, but as I said in the other thread there are others like Dante, Homer, Cervantes and Goethe who are undoubtedly his equals, and the other great dramatists, the three from Greece, and Wagner and the likes.

>>17334379
Which other thread?

>>17334379
>Cervantes
>equal to Shakespeare
Nice fucking meme. Don Quixote is the best work of literature that exists and will ever be. And its imposible to truly grasp its true meaning and beauty in english. Only retards think its just a "funny book". Also Lope de Vega. The reason you think Shakespeare is good is because you have never read Spanish literature. I encourage you to never read it anyway.

>>17334397
This one >>17331779

>>17334435
>The reason you think Shakespeare is good is because you have never read Spanish literature. I encourage you to never read it anyway.
Wow, talk about bitterness man.

I'm ranking Cervantes along with Shakespeare, I hardly think Don Quixote is just "a funny book." But again, the reason on your hand why you have such an insufferable difficulty in understanding Shakespeare, is likely, as with all the inferior cockroach minds of other nations with this same opinion, that you do not understand the purpose (and origin) of drama, in contrast with the poem, and set apart in a further contrast to the novel.

I suggest you think on it. 'What truth does Shakespeare connotate?' You have not thought yet. Unless you are just a moron.

Milton did it

>>17334435
¡Hola Paco!

>>17334435

You don’t know much except for patriotism. You will never produce anything relevant.

>>17334464
Didn't read. I am not bitter about anything I just wamt to take a shit and my coworker is in the bathroom.

>>17334484
>You don’t know much except for patriotism. You will never produce anything relevant.
>>17334359
>Is it impossible to surpass Shakespeare?

>>17334485
Why do you have to take out your anger on Shakespeare then man?

>NOOOOOOOO DON'T SHIT ON MY MY DEAD OVER RATED WRITER! THINK OF HIS READERS! NOOOOO HOW DARE YOU! WHY ARE YOU WASTING LITERALLY 10 SECONDS OF YOUR LIFE TO SHITPOST?
>>17334481
Yes.

>>17334497

I’m not the same anon and I don’t think it’s impossible to surpass any person: we simply can’t tell what might happen. But one thing I know it’s that Cervantes is not as verbally inventive and poetic as Shakespeare, didn’t worked with as many themes and life philosophies as Shakespeare and didn’t create not even half as many characters.

Also: Tolstoy is a greater novelist than Cervantes. Cervantes isn’t even the greatest writer of novels.

>>17334513
>Yes.

No wonder Spanish countries fall so much for totalitarian regimes: a bunch of simple-minded peasants who are easily manipulated by religion or authoritarian-patriostims, what could you expect.

>>17334379
>Dante, Homer, Cervantes and Goethe
How many masterpieces did they write compared to Shakespeare?

>>17334539
>Also: Tolstoy is a greater novelist than Cervantes. Cervantes isn’t even the greatest writer of novels.
Not the anon you're replying to, but having not read Tolstoy I'll just follow my guess, do you think Tolstoy is perhaps limited by his realism? Does he really see as far Cervantes, the measure of all art?

>>17334561
It's not necessarily about how many, it's obvious Dante's three and Homer's two already put them as an equal to Shakespeare, and just as Shakes is doing his own thing better, so do they theirs. But it's not like Dante or Homer have less breadth than Shakespeare, Dante wrote a lot more than Shakespeare anyway.

>>17334572

His knowledge of humanity is awe inspiring. He was able to put himself in the place of hundreds of different characters, either male or female, rich or poor, educated or ignorant. No other writer I know (only Chekhov) is as capable as inhabiting other minds as Tolstoy. Even Shakespeare’s characters seem larger that life and more artificial when compared to Tolstoy’s people of flesh and blood.

>>17334555
As opposed to thinking Shakespeare is the greatest without having read anything else? Fuck off and go lie to reddit. You know you have never read shit outside what school wants you to
>No wonder Spanish countries fall so much for totalitarian regimes: a bunch of simple-minded peasants who are easily manipulated by religion or authoritarian-patriostims, what could you expect.
Lmao look at your elections. You are banana republic.
>>17334539
Perfect reddit post.
>Likes Tolstoy
>le Shakyman dabbles on many themes
>Talks about an author not being "verbally inventive" while not reading in hid original language.

Nope

>>17334592
But you cannot be so sucked into a single artist, Shakespeare is writing something truly of a more mythological nature, it's not strictly realism like Tolstoy, and it's a mistake to assume absolute realism is the goal of all art. I gather he just portrays an incomparable understanding of life as we experience it, and I understand the lustre of that, but again, it's a mistake to think all art should aim for it, or that it's the highest aim of art.

>>17334610
>>le Shakyman dabbles on many themes
>Likes Tolstoy

And that’s a problem because?

>>Talks about an author not being "verbally inventive" while not reading in hid original language.

How do you know I can’t read Spanish? How do you know I come from an Anglo country?

Anyway, Borges himself - who loved Dom Quixote - said Cervantes style was crude and vulgar, and that almost any great poet from the Siglo se Oro could have improved the prose of the novel.

Also: don’t superestimaste the devaluation of translations, especially when it comes down to prose and there’s no need to save the metric pattern or eventual rhyming scheme.

Spenser is superior to Shakespeare

>>17334662

Sorry if I didn’t explain myself better. I don’t value Tolstoy above all other writers or think his style is scripture. Honestly, I think Shakespeare complete works are more impressive than Tolstoy’s. And if I were to name a writer who presents us the greatest understanding of people as they really are I would name Chekhov, not Tolstoy.

I don't know but he makes Spaniards and their spic descendants seethe so I approve. t.Italian

>>17334698
>I don't know but he makes Spaniards and their spic descendants seethe

Spaniards are one of the most arrogant and egocentric people on Earth, which is quite ironic when one thinks about their modest achievements. It must be a sore to their eyes to see England surpass them in literature, sciences, warfare, politics and almost any field of human endeavor.

Not saying that France, Germany, Italy, the US and even Latin America don’t surpass them too, but I really think they have something against Britain in the first place.

>>17334730
>but I really think they have something against Britain in the first place
they never recovered from the Armada

>>17334730
>even Latin America
I love Latin America but hate Spain

>>17334359
Germany, Spain, France , Italy, Greece , Russia and Portugal all produced better writers, so yes.

I’m thinking it’s impossible

>>17334435
I've seen a lot of poster like you, worshipping Cervantes and holding great resentment and inferiority complex towards all other language.
Where do you come from? Is it that Maestro guy ?

Shakespeare is not the best at anything in writing by any metric. The only thing people can say is that he is the most famous

>>17335037
Which Portuguese, Italian or Spanish writer is better than Shakespeare?

not OP
Can i post?
ok
should I read collected works of h.p. lovecraft or shakespeare to go with my math studies?

>>17334485
This anon is literally full of shit

>>17335037
>Germany
No
>Spain
No
>France
No
>Italy
Maybe
>Greece
No
>Russia
No
>Portugal
Definitely no

>>17335222
Cervantes

>IS IT IMPOSSIBLE TO SURPASS SHAKESPEARE??!?!!?
>Sí
>omgomgomg why are spaniards like this is it because they love facism your literally corruption: the country omg how dare you? your fucking spics kids too they bully me all the tiem!!! your so bitter I bet you never had sex!! if you dont agree with me your the most arrogant and egocentric people on Earth did you know England did every thing and AND is better than you germany france italy ALL TOGHETER YOUR SO ARROGANT!!1!
Every. Single. Time.

>>17335403
And I even said I was literally shitposting. They want to believe milkshake man is just the best anyway. Its not like they really want a discussion. Look at the OP and look at how defensive they get.

>>17334359
If only Chaucer hadn’t died.

>>17335222
Camoes

>>17335496

>>17335273
I know that you actually believe this, which just makes it that much more hilarious.

>Anglos unironically believe that languages with no lexical or grammatical depth can produce noteworthy masterpieces of literature.

>>17334561
Does the fact you suck 3 dicks and I only suck one make you a bigger faggot? Hardly, what is true, of course, is that were each faggots.

>>17335526
Just starting with your first country, Germany. You do realize Germans themselves held Shakespeare as the greatest writer ever for as long as he’s been translated to German in the 18th century? Beethoven talked about “being the Shakespeare of music.” The only people who talk about Shakespeare like this are Hispanics. Mind you, no one gives a shit about Cervantes outside of Spain. He’s more akin to Chaucer. I’m also confused who you could even think is better than Shakespeare from Portugal. France? Proust? Proust obviously was obsessed with Shakespeare and had to have been his main influence. The fact that you didn’t even list the writers you think are better from those countries says enough

>>17335741
How is shakespeare the best

>>17335748
He is the best because... He just is ok?!??
Inb4
>HE INVENT WORDS
>LE MULTIPLE THEMES
>LE HE DESCRIBES ABSTRACT THINGS WITH WORDS
the same three "arguments" over and over again. Not a single writer has fone that at all guys. Believe me.

>>17335748
The thing about Shakespeare is you can post his writing knowing no one else has ever written anywhere near his quality

>>17335867
Can you explain your point or are you just bard worshipping in the air right now

>>17335867
less than 1% of the population understand that

>>17335812
Strawman, but still better than the ABSOLUTEL LACK of any argument Spaniards have when insulting Shakespeare and stating Cervantes (whom they have no a single of that same drop of blood) to be a billion times better.

>>17335741
Until you're fluent in multiple languages, your opinion is invalid.

>>17335867
>The thing about Shakespeare is you can post his writing knowing no one else has ever written anywhere near his quality
If anything, this is a true testament to your own ignorance.

>>17336055
I am not even spanish, and I didn't come here to argue. Just came here to shitpost this terrible thread. And I did my job well seeing how supposedly I am the one seething.

>>17335431
>Its not like they really want a discussion

Okay, so name me another writer can write so beautifully in so many different styles, ons o many themes, nesting inside so many different brains.

And please, let me know if any other poet has the same number of striking metaphors, at the same time fresh and beautiful, the kind of imagery that one never forgets.

About love, in the exaggerated and melancholy style of Renaissance poets (look for something in Petrarch or Camões that is more inventive than this):

For Orpheus' lute was strung with poets' sinews,
Whose golden touch could soften steel and stones,
Make tigers tame and huge leviathans
Forsake unsounded deeps to dance on sands.

An existential and Dantesque meditation on death and the hereafter:

Ay, but to die, and go we know not where;
To lie in cold obstruction and to rot;
This sensible warm motion to become
A kneaded clod; and the delighted spirit
To bathe in fiery floods, or to reside
In thrilling region of thick-ribbed ice;
To be imprison'd in the viewless winds,
And blown with restless violence round about
The pendent world; or to be worse than worst
Of those that lawless and incertain thought
Imagine howling: 'tis too horrible!
The weariest and most loathed worldly life
That age, ache, penury and imprisonment
Can lay on nature is a paradise
To what we fear of death.

A meditation of complete darkness and devoid of any remnants of Christian hope or any religious support:

She should have died hereafter;
There would have been a time for such a word.
— To-morrow, and to-morrow, and to-morrow,
Creeps in this petty pace from day to day,
To the last syllable of recorded time;
And all our yesterdays have lighted fools
The way to dusty death.
Out, out, brief candle!
Life is but a walking shadow, a poor player
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage
And then is heard no more. It is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury
Signifying nothing.

>>17336127

A poem similar to Job's first speech "perish the day I was born / And the night that said: a boy was conceived", but which is even more grand in his poetry than Job:

Lear. Blow, winds, and crack your cheeks! rage! blow!
You cataracts and hurricanoes, spout
Till you have drench'd our steeples, drown'd the cocks!
You sulph'rous and thought-executing fires,
Vaunt-couriers to oak-cleaving thunderbolts,
Singe my white head! And thou, all-shaking thunder,
Strike flat the thick rotundity o' th' world,
Crack Nature's moulds, all germains spill at once,
That makes ingrateful man!
(...)
Lear. Rumble thy bellyful! Spit, fire! spout, rain!
Nor rain, wind, thunder, fire are my daughters.
I tax not you, you elements, with unkindness.
I never gave you kingdom, call'd you children,
You owe me no subscription. Then let fall
Your horrible pleasure. Here I stand your slave,
A poor, infirm, weak, and despis'd old man.
But yet I call you servile ministers,
That will with two pernicious daughters join
Your high-engender'd battles 'gainst a head
So old and white as this! O! O! 'tis foul!

A description of the fairy-world:

O, then, I see Queen Mab hath been with you.
She is the fairies' midwife, and she comes
In shape no bigger than an agate-stone
On the fore-finger of an alderman,
Drawn with a team of little atomies
Athwart men's noses as they lie asleep;
Her wagon-spokes made of long spiders' legs,
The cover of the wings of grasshoppers,
The traces of the smallest spider's web,
The collars of the moonshine's watery beams,
Her whip of cricket's bone, the lash of film,
Her wagoner a small grey-coated gnat,
Not so big as a round little worm
Prick'd from the lazy finger of a maid;
Her chariot is an empty hazel-nut
Made by the joiner squirrel or old grub,
Time out o' mind the fairies' coachmakers.

A description of the horror of the brothels at the time:

Neither of these are so bad as thou art,
Since they do better thee in their command.
Thou hold'st a place, for which the pained'st fiend
Of hell would not in reputation change:
Thou art the damned doorkeeper to every
Coistrel that comes inquiring for his Tib [Tib is a nickname for slut-girls];
To the choleric fisting of every rogue
Thy ear is liable; thy food is such
As hath been belch'd on by infected lungs.

>>17336135

A Sunrise:

Full many a glorious morning have I seen
Flatter the mountain-tops with sovereign eye,
Kissing with golden face the meadows green,
Gilding pale streams with heavenly alchemy;

The passage of time:

Devouring Time, blunt thou the lion's paws,
And make the earth devour her own sweet brood;
Pluck the keen teeth from the fierce tiger's jaws,
And burn the long-lived phoenix in her blood;
Make glad and sorry seasons as thou fleets,
And do whate'er thou wilt, swift-footed Time,
To the wide world and all her fading sweets;
But I forbid thee one most heinous crime:
O, carve not with thy hours my love's fair brow,
Nor draw no lines there with thine antique pen;
Him in thy course untainted do allow
For beauty's pattern to succeeding men.
Yet, do thy worst, old Time: despite thy wrong,
My love shall in my verse ever live young.

On war, peace, ambition, all in few lines:

Now for the bare-pick'd bone of majesty
Doth dogged war bristle his angry crest
And snarleth in the gentle eyes of peace.

On war:

VIRGILIA
His bloody brow! O Jupiter, no blood!
VOLUMNIA
Away, you fool! it more becomes a man
Than gilt his trophy: the breasts of Hecuba,
When she did suckle Hector, look'd not lovelier
Than Hector's forehead when it spit forth blood
At Grecian sword, contemning. Tell Valeria,
We are fit to bid her welcome.

Description of a great warrior:

He is their god: he leads them like a thing
Made by some other deity than nature,
That shapes man better; and they follow him,
Against us brats, with no less confidence
Than boys pursuing summer butterflies,
Or butchers killing flies.
(...)
There is differency between a grub and a butterfly;
yet your butterfly was a grub. This CORIOLANUS is grown
from man to dragon: he has wings; he's more than a creeping thing.

>>17336144

A lover complaining of how irritating his beloved is:

O, she misused me past the endurance of a block!
an oak but with one green leaf on it would have
answered her; my very visor began to assume life and
scold with her. She told me, not thinking I had been
myself, that I was the prince's jester, that I was
duller than a great thaw; huddling jest upon jest
with such impossible conveyance upon me that I stood
like a man at a mark, with a whole army shooting at
me. She speaks poniards, and every word stabs:
if her breath were as terrible as her terminations,
there were no living near her; she would infect to
the north star. I would not marry her, though she
were endowed with all that Adam bad left him before
he transgressed: she would have made Hercules have
turned spit, yea, and have cleft his club to make
the fire too. Come, talk not of her: you shall find
her the infernal Ate in good apparel. I would to God
some scholar would conjure her; for certainly, while
she is here, a man may live as quiet in hell as in a
sanctuary; and people sin upon purpose, because they
would go thither; so, indeed, all disquiet, horror
and perturbation follows her.

>>17336148

Women talking about men and to cheat or not:

DESDEMONA
I have heard it said so. O, these men, these men!
Dost thou in conscience think,--tell me, Emilia,--
That there be women do abuse their husbands
In such gross kind?
EMILIA
There be some such, no question.
DESDEMONA
Wouldst thou do such a deed for all the world?
EMILIA
Why, would not you?
DESDEMONA
No, by this heavenly light!
EMILIA
Nor I neither by this heavenly light;
I might do't as well i' the dark.
DESDEMONA
Wouldst thou do such a deed for all the world?
EMILIA
The world's a huge thing: it is a great price.
For a small vice.
DESDEMONA
In troth, I think thou wouldst not.
EMILIA
In troth, I think I should; and undo't when I had
done. Marry, I would not do such a thing for a
joint-ring, nor for measures of lawn, nor for
gowns, petticoats, nor caps, nor any petty
exhibition; but for the whole world,--why, who would
not make her husband a cuckold to make him a
monarch? I should venture purgatory for't.
DESDEMONA
Beshrew me, if I would do such a wrong
For the whole world.
EMILIA
Why the wrong is but a wrong i' the world: and
having the world for your labour, tis a wrong in your
own world, and you might quickly make it right.
DESDEMONA
I do not think there is any such woman.
EMILIA
Yes, a dozen; and as many to the vantage as would
store the world they played for.
But I do think it is their husbands' faults
If wives do fall: say that they slack their duties,
And pour our treasures into foreign laps,
Or else break out in peevish jealousies,
Throwing restraint upon us; or say they strike us,
Or scant our former having in despite;
Why, we have galls, and though we have some grace,
Yet have we some revenge. Let husbands know
Their wives have sense like them: they see and smell
And have their palates both for sweet and sour,
As husbands have. What is it that they do
When they change us for others? Is it sport?
I think it is: and doth affection breed it?
I think it doth: is't frailty that thus errs?
It is so too: and have not we affections,
Desires for sport, and frailty, as men have?
Then let them use us well: else let them know,
The ills we do, their ills instruct us so.

>>17336158

Description of a storm on the sea (try to find anything like this in Camões):

MONTANO
What from the cape can you discern at sea?
First Gentleman
Nothing at all: it is a highwrought flood;
I cannot, 'twixt the heaven and the main,
Descry a sail.
MONTANO
Methinks the wind hath spoke aloud at land;
A fuller blast ne'er shook our battlements:
If it hath ruffian'd so upon the sea,
What ribs of oak, when mountains melt on them,
Can hold the mortise? What shall we hear of this?
Second Gentleman
A segregation of the Turkish fleet:
For do but stand upon the foaming shore,
The chidden billow seems to pelt the clouds;
The wind-shaked surge, with high and monstrous mane,
seems to cast water on the burning bear,
And quench the guards of the ever-fixed pole:
I never did like molestation view
On the enchafed flood.

Or this, on the same theme:

Clown
Hilloa, loa!
Shepherd
What, art so near? If thou'lt see a thing to talk
on when thou art dead and rotten, come hither. What
ailest thou, man?
Clown
I have seen two such sights, by sea and by land!
but I am not to say it is a sea, for it is now the
sky: betwixt the firmament and it you cannot thrust
a bodkin's point.
Shepherd
Why, boy, how is it?
Clown
I would you did but see how it chafes, how it rages,
how it takes up the shore! but that's not the
point. O, the most piteous cry of the poor souls!
sometimes to see 'em, and not to see 'em; now the
ship boring the moon with her main-mast, and anon
swallowed with yest and froth, as you'ld thrust a
cork into a hogshead. And then for the
land-service, to see how the bear tore out his
shoulder-bone; how he cried to me for help and said
his name was Antigonus, a nobleman. But to make an
end of the ship, to see how the sea flap-dragoned
it: but, first, how the poor souls roared, and the
sea mocked them; and how the poor gentleman roared
and the bear mocked him, both roaring louder than
the sea or weather.

>>17336169

A meditation on the destruction of Earth and civilization:

Let heaven kiss earth! Now let not Nature's hand
Keep the wild flood confin'd! Let order die!
And let this world no longer be a stage
To feed contention in a ling'ring act;
But let one spirit of the first-born Cain
Reign in all bosoms, that, each heart being set
On bloody courses, the rude scene may end
And darkness be the burier of the dead!

A warrior lamenting the need to act like a politician:

CORIOLANUS
Well, I must do't:
Away, my disposition, and possess me
Some harlot's spirit! my throat of war be turn'd,
Which quired with my drum, into a pipe
Small as an eunuch, or the virgin voice
That babies lulls asleep! the smiles of knaves
Tent in my cheeks, and schoolboys' tears take up
The glasses of my sight! a beggar's tongue
Make motion through my lips, and my arm'd knees,
Who bow'd but in my stirrup, bend like his
That hath received an alms! I will not do't,
Lest I surcease to honour mine own truth
And by my body's action teach my mind
A most inherent baseness.

A cosmic description of a loved one:

CLEOPATRA
I dream'd there was an Emperor Antony:
O, such another sleep, that I might see
But such another man!
DOLABELLA
If it might please ye,--
CLEOPATRA
His face was as the heavens; and therein stuck
A sun and moon, which kept their course,
and lighted
The little O, the earth.
DOLABELLA
Most sovereign creature,--
CLEOPATRA
His legs bestrid the ocean: his rear'd arm
Crested the world: his voice was propertied
As all the tuned spheres, and that to friends;
But when he meant to quail and shake the orb,
He was as rattling thunder. For his bounty,
There was no winter in't; an autumn 'twas
That grew the more by reaping: his delights
Were dolphin-like; they show'd his back above
The element they lived in: in his livery
Walk'd crowns and crownets; realms and islands were
As plates dropp'd from his pocket.

>>17336184

Two songs, on winter and spring:

SPRING.

When daisies pied and violets blue
And lady-smocks all silver-white
And cuckoo-buds of yellow hue
Do paint the meadows with delight,
The cuckoo then, on every tree,
Mocks married men; for thus sings he, Cuckoo;
Cuckoo, cuckoo: O word of fear,
Unpleasing to a married ear!

When shepherds pipe on oaten straws
And merry larks are ploughmen's clocks,
When turtles tread, and rooks, and daws,
And maidens bleach their summer smocks
The cuckoo then, on every tree,
Mocks married men; for thus sings he, Cuckoo;
Cuckoo, cuckoo: O word of fear,
Unpleasing to a married ear!

WINTER.

When icicles hang by the wall
And Dick the shepherd blows his nail
And Tom bears logs into the hall
And milk comes frozen home in pail,
When blood is nipp'd and ways be foul,
Then nightly sings the staring owl, Tu-whit;
Tu-who, a merry note,
While greasy Joan doth keel the pot.

When all aloud the wind doth blow
And coughing drowns the parson's saw
And birds sit brooding in the snow
And Marian's nose looks red and raw,
When roasted crabs hiss in the bowl,
Then nightly sings the staring owl, Tu-whit;
Tu-who, a merry note,
While greasy Joan doth keel the pot.

On tyranny and abuse of power:

Could great men thunder
As Jove himself does, Jove would ne'er be quiet,
For every pelting, petty officer
Would use his heaven for thunder;
Nothing but thunder! Merciful Heaven,
Thou rather with thy sharp and sulphurous bolt
Split'st the unwedgeable and gnarled oak
Than the soft myrtle: but man, proud man,
Drest in a little brief authority,
Most ignorant of what he's most assured,
His glassy essence, like an angry ape,
Plays such fantastic tricks before high heaven
As make the angels weep; who, with our spleens,
Would all themselves laugh mortal.

>>17334359
what about instead of Shakespeare it was "shake spheres" and it was just a woamn bouncing her boobs lol

>>17334379
>undoubtedly his equals
They are tentatively his equals.

>>17334435
You're trying to hard and making us look bad.

>>17335009

>>17334359
Step aside, incel.

>>17336272

He's stuff is crap. His imagery is mostly "red as a rose", "cold as ice", "hot as Apollo", "weak as shep strong as lion", "milky white", "bright moon", etc.

Also: not a single memorable character in all of his epic. As for his sonnets, I would save the poems of Michalengelo over that of Camões any day.

omfg. welcome to /badolatry/. shakespeare really isnt that good. he wouldnt even be considered good has shakespeare been born portuguese

>>17336425
>he wouldnt even be considered good has shakespeare been born portuguese

Of course not. How would he be able to develop his mind in a crude and ignorant barn of a country like Portugal in the time of Camões? Even the nobles where a bunch of ignorant hicks. Meanwhile in England the Grammar Schools were feeding children vast amounts of Latin, Greek and all sorts of verbal exercises, and London was one of the greatest printers of books on the world, one of the first truly cosmopolitan cities.

Even Pessoa had the advantage of a vastly Anglo education. One of the reasons why his work was so different from that os most portuguese writers.

>>17336462
Camões was a true Chad. Not a cuck like Shakespeare.

>>17336462
>Meanwhile in England the Grammar Schools were feeding children vast amounts of Latin, Greek and all sorts of verbal exercises, and London was one of the greatest printers of books on the world, one of the first truly cosmopolitan cities.
And the best they were able to produce was Shakespeare. Imagine that!

LMAO

>>17336092
Major cope, when the shitposter purposefully gives himself away he has grown into the argument a real personal semblance, the "no you're seething" only shows your own seethe.

i like marlowe better

>>17336542
Based

Camoes was not only a seasoned war veteran, he also bedded multiple women from multiple continents. He also saved his epic poem in India from a shipwreck. A true patriot.

Shakespeare was just a cuck writing theatre plays. No wonder anglocucks love him.

>>17334435
Can we stop this Dick Competition meme? Maestro is already getting stalled.

>>17335222
Dante

>>17336631

I think you would feel more confortable reading that Bronze Age Pervert guy. You are on the level of people who try to pull down great jewish scientists by calling them "kikes".

>>17336542
>>17336631

It's a sign of defeat when you need to talk about the personal life of authors to support a claim to greatness.

By the way, there's no source for this myth:

>>17336631
>He also saved his epic poem in India from a shipwreck.

Or this one:

>>17336631
>he also bedded multiple women from multiple continents.

There's only reference about a chinese lover (that he wasn't able to save from the shipwreck, if you people are going as low as to call others "cucks").

As for Shakespeare, nobody knows how his personal life was. There are sonnets written to a woman other than his wife, so he probably had some sort of lover.

>>17336631
>A true patriot.

Wow, a patriot! now that's a real sign of great writing.

>>17336875
>I couldn’t find a source in English, so it doesn’t exist.
I accept your defeat.

>>17336875
He had an African lover as well, to whom he dedicated a very beautiful poem, I might add.

Not that you would know.

With regards to the rest, it’s rather pathetic that you can’t cope with the fact the he was not only a brilliant writer, but also a national hero that is still regarded as one of the greatest Portuguese of all time. Even by today’s standards.

No, it is possible to be on par with him in levels of sophistication, depth, etc. but he did it first(ish) so he’s just a baller.

>>17336910

Na viagem de volta a Goa, naufragou, conforme diz a tradição, junto à foz do rio Mecom, salvando-se apenas ele e o manuscrito d’Os Lusíadas, evento que lhe inspirou as célebres redondilhas Sobre os rios que vão, consideradas por António Sérgio a coluna vertebral da lírica camoniana, sendo reiteradamente citadas na literatura crítica. O trauma do naufrágio, conforme disse Leal de Matos, repercutiu mais profundamente numa redefinição do projeto d’Os Lusíadas, sendo perceptível a partir do Canto VII, sendo acusada já por Diogo do Couto, seu amigo, que em parte acompanhou a escrita. Provavelmente o seu resgate demorou meses a ocorrer, e não há registo de como isso ocorreu, mas foi levado a Malaca, onde recebeu nova ordem de prisão por apropriação indébita dos bens dos defuntos a ele confiados. Não se sabe a data exata de seu retorno a Goa, onde pode ter continuado preso ainda algum tempo. Couto refere que no naufrágio morreu Dinamene, uma donzela chinesa pela qual Camões se terá apaixonado, mas Ribeiro e outros afirmam que a história deve ser rejeitada.[22]

Agora, portuga, tente refutar isso aqui:

>>17336127
>>17336135
>>17336144
>>17336148
>>17336158
>>17336169
>>17336184
>>17336191

Vamos facilitar para você. Tente refutar apenas os trechos de poesia marítima. Tente achar algum relato de naufrágio superior.

>>17335224
Shakespeare since Lovecraft is a hack

"Oh! What indescribable horrors! I literally can't describe it"
Totally lame

>>17336201
dangerously based

>>17336934
>to whom he dedicated a very beautiful poem, I might add.

Eu consigo ler português. Poste o poema, por favor.

>>17336058
Can you speak German, French, Russian Portuguese, Italian and Spanish?

>>17337075
I speak enough to know that Shake a Pear is overrated.

>>17337030

Based and Cyclopean Architecture pilled

>>17334359
Who cares? He wrote plays and poetry in a form of English that is outdated and will become more and more archaic as time goes on to the point where Shakespeare's English will be too different to compare it to works of any contemporary or future works. Also, most works since Shakespeare have been aspiring for a different thing than what Shakespeare was going for. You can't tell me that somebody like, say, Celine, or Nabokov, or Pynchon, or Beckett, or Proust were going for, while writing their masterpieces, the same "thing" as Shakespeare. I'm not saying these writers objectively surpass Shakespeare, or that they come close (that is for everyone to decide for themselves), but to try and compare writers who have centuries between them doesn't make any sense.

It's the same with comparing Shakespeare and Cervantes: both writers were going for two completely separate things, and Anglos and Spaniards are going to constantly accuse each other of not being able to read in the those works in the original language and argue about cultural things that have nothing to do with Shakespeare or Cervantes. At the end of the day, you're comparing two writers who did completely different things and who don't need to be compared to each other. None of you fags are Shakespeare or Cervantes, so why do you care so much if some fag on the internet likes them or not?

>>17337130
>None of you fags are Shakespeare or Cervantes, so why do you care so much if some fag on the internet likes them or not?

I do it because I inherited Shakespeare's memory. It is a curse and I do not wish the same fate for any soul.

>>17334359
Not even the greatest English writer of his generation

>>17334359
There is one writer who is superior to all other writers, including Shakespeare. One whose work and stories consists of nearly everything in the most briefest and concisest of language, and yet the deepest and perhaps even the most beautiful.

Aesop

>>17337208

Was not expecting a post like this. Thank you, Anon.

>>17335741
>Mind you, no one gives a shit about Cervantes outside of Spain
You're wrong:
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bokklubben_World_Library
A survey of writers all over the world, very diverse in culture and language, agreed to name Don Quixote the greatest book ever written.
You're probably just anglocentric. Also you historical argument is superficial:
> You do realize Germans themselves held Shakespeare as the greatest writer ever for as long as he’s been translated to German in the 18th century

The Germans back then were still high on proto-nationalistic fumes. Those very romantics also held Walter Scott on the same esteem as Shakespeare. Unless you're prepared to argue this make Walter Scott one of the giants of world literature, you have to recognize that the argument falls flat.

What speaks for Shakespeare' genius is that why Scott is now barely a footnote he, on the other hand, is still relevant. One big reason is that he was cemented as a symbol of creative spirit against neo-classicalism and in the context of blossoming European nationalism. It's really a matter of timing in the end.
You can still argue that Shakespeare is great, maybe the greatest writer ever (although in the end that last label is meaningless and entirely dependent on nonshared aesthetic axioms). But his historical popularity is really not a good proof of that if you look into it. Mind that he was also idolized by the French romantics who not only read him in translation but in many cases only read very fews of his plays (nevermind the poems who were all but ignored until recently in the continent). So the usual argument that "Shakespeare's language is what made him world famous" also doesn't work. The reality is that Shakespeare's talent is one thing, and the admiration complex that has been built around him is another, even though they sometimes intersect, they're not connected in the necessary way people imagine.

>>17334359
Nobody is impossible to surpass.

>>17337249
>what these writers think means something cause I agree
>what these writers think doesn’t mean anything cause I disagree
Thanks for the analysis, Captain Spazzoid

>>17335548
Shakespeare takes the limited piece of garbage shit that is the English language and he transcends everything with that limited tool

>>17337246
A post like what?

And no problem, anon.

>>17334359
Nah just write actual good characters and immerse people on the story and do not just rely on wordplay. Then you are already doing better than Shakespeare

>>17337364
>A post like what?

Cold, calm, simple, naming an author that people on /lit/ ussualy don't quote or argue about. It also made me remember that Aesop exists.

I think it would be healthy for my mind to read him and learn more simplicity.

>>17334435
kek, don quixote is an adam sandler movie drawn out to 1000 pages.

Why is nobody talking about tolstoy? He's the Shakespeare of the novel, undoubtedly. He surpassed Cervantes but obviously couldn't have done that without learning from the him.

>>17337473
Aesop is the one and only writer that every one of the customers at the bookshop I used to work for all enjoyed reading, young and old, male and female, across all political spectrums.

>I think it would be healthy for my mind to read him and learn more simplicity.

Interesting. You seem interesting.

>>17337531
You think War & Peace is a superior novel to Don Quixote?

>>17337482
......oh you poor soul.

Why does an argument about literature sow so much discord? Do you truly think that neither Cervantes nor Shakespeare wouldn't have been willing to enjoy the other's work? Why can we not admire literary works without attaching nationalities to them, making jingoistic weapons out of them rather than treating them as the works of art meant to delight and instruct that they are?

>>17334435
basado

>>17337863
tell that to the anglo that got butthurt lol I like Shakespeare

>>17337798
100% yeah

>>17334359
Gintama.

>>17337482
Congrats dude. You are exactly the type of person that retard was talking about.

>>17337863
What discord? One anon was doing shitposting in real life and on here and retards here not only took him seriously but started bringing up politics and racism.

>>17335139
Ah for fucks sake how was he so good

No, it isn’t:

https://youtu.be/p0uMisUnqlk

>>17334435
Pretty good desu but you simped a little too hard for the original Spanish, still a solid 8/10

>>17338448
He was catholic

>>17334435
Why blind yourself with patriotism.
As an italian, i will shamelessly shill dante, calvino, and a lot of others, but that doesn't mean i will try to hold back other countries work.
Respect to Sheakspeare and Cervantes alike.

>>17336551
Your seethe is showing

>>17334359
yes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=596vi4HLNj4

>>17337008
>defending Shakespeare over Camões
>it was a brazillian this whole time
Estou desiludido, mas não surpreendido.

>>17334435
based even if satirical, angl*ds truly cna't conceive good literature

>>17335953
His writing is so dense, ornate, and textured it’s like Finnegans Wake with a comprehensible story. In fact, the thing that most reminds me of Shakespeare IS Finnegans Wake

>>17334359
LNs have already surpassed him.

>>17337008
Based brazilian stands with the bard

>>17338242
Holy based

>>17335212
They all come from the Spanish General.

>ITT: everyone shilling for literally who's from his own country

>>17334359
Imo, he surpassed everything that came before him, yet has been surpassed by some poets afterwards. Simply since poetry evolved.

>>17338410
well given that he's retarded i won't lose any sleep over it.

>>17334435
If Spanish literature is so good, how come they allow their language to be bastardized by English racists by adding "x" to the end of gendered words?

>>17341618
That's americans and no one cares about it in spanish speaking countries at least that's what they say on /int/ whenever an american says "latinx"

>>17334435
Lolololol anglx BTFO'd
remember lope de vega's poem about the lebrels, these fuckers are already going out,in this century people will be saying english as literaly "what?" compared to chinese while spanish will still keep its same position, beacause it turns out that when your language is kept by force it is also taken out by force, meanwhile spanish will stay eternal and forever

>>17334359
lolol harry potter? lolololo
l