/lit/ - Literature

Can't help OP but bumping and lurking for people who have any book recs on critical theory, intersectionality, progressivism etc.
The only things I have a mental note to check out are Caliban and the Witch, and something by Adorno.
I have too many books in my stack not relating to intersectionality etc to get through before I can really focus on output from leftist publishing houses.

>>17321805
OP here, if there are books that speak in favour and against that's good too, I want to know about both sides

Pic related has a good chapter about intersections.

>>17321805
/pol/, unironically

>>17321866
Why would that board be good for anything? They'll just spam images about Jews and desert demons with ominous quotes.

>>17321846

>>17321866
Critical theory is nonsense. So is intersectionality.
t. /pol/ack

The only book I've read is a critical view of it from a few liberals. It's called Cynical Theories. I thought it was quite good.

>>17322609
Why is it nonsense?
I don't even know what critical theory is but my teacher said it's essential to understanding the quickly changing multicultural world around us.

>>17322609
I think if this is truly how you feel about the works of Mead and other pioneers in critical theory, you must not be very familiar with the actual work. She was a pioneer in terms of feminist ideals and also critiqued the idea of race based superiority. Part of what she was even fascinated by was the complexity of the cultures she looked at.

>>17321805
your professor is a hack and a pseud and I am willing to bet both my nuts, a woman, which makes the first half of this sentence redundant.

>>17321805
>jews

A good book would be a package left on your professor's doorstep.

>>17322771
Yes, she is a woman, and it felt like a poltard fever dream because she is
>barren
>childless
>works at a refugee organisation

I'm not a philosopher, I come from a working class family and am generally uneducated. The reason I made this thread is to gain insight into why my major (medicine) is rife with thought like this, although I can put one and one together in that regard.
I'd like to have a deeper understanding of the topics at hand so that I can at least produce a counterargument, as said teacher's bias (will never call her a professor) aroused my dismay upon saying something that I knew was false and agenda-driven.

That being said I feel terribly sad to be aware of bullshit being taught n my uni, which is a very prestigious one.

>>17322808
I >>17322816 also wonder which agenda her teachings actually serve. There was a focus on class and income as well, something absent in the wokie crowd. Is it the typical commie ideology that JP and poltards yammer about?

>>17321805
Intersectionalism is a self-defeating ideology that only atomizes people further while giving us more reasons to hate each other. It is not conducive for social cohesion, let alone any kind of revolutionary change.

>>17322895
>self-defeating ideology
how

>more reasons to hate each other
how so? our teacher said it's to understand other people's situation better

>Abuse and the Intersection, by Rasha Ahmed.
>The White Male's Rape of the American Female, by Jillian Schafer, in Intersectionality: A Feminist Critique of the 'Women's Studies' Reader's Digest Anthology and Journal Issue.
>Intersectionality: Feminism and the Black Male Experience, by Nafeez Ahmed, in Intersectionality: A Feminist Critique of the 'Women's Studies' Reader's Digest Anthology and Journal Issue.
>Differently-abled Teens in the Classroom, by Sheila Jeffreys and David Buell
>Behind the Glass: Race, Ageism, and Intersectionality, by Carol Gillen.
>Understanding Racial Violence Against Women: Race and Intersections in Education and Criminal Justice, by Carol Gillen.
>The Politics of Intersectionality, by Heather Kagan

>>17322905
Every person has privilege in some capacity, according the chart in the OP. Intersectionality sounds like a useful tool for understanding, in theory. In actuality, it is used to silence dissent by calling out the other party's privilege, and everybody joins in to accuse the others of exploiting their privilege and try to shift attention away from them in a dizzying game of oppression hot potato. Just look at all the shit flinging that goes on in the LGBT community.

>>17322771
go browse pol retard

>>17321805
i wanna punch you in the neck

>>17323062
What would that accomplish you ape?

Go to the biggest, blackest dude at the bar, kneel for him, cry, finally show him your pristine white bussy, then he might reveal the secrets of intersectionality and white privilege to you in the form of coded sequences contained in his potent sperm that now soak into your sissy consciousness through your anal membranes.
Thank me later

>>17323109
sneed

>>17322816
critical theory has infiltrated most, if not all departments through the administration. nowhere is sacred and the indoctrination runs deep

>>17323129
What's the point of it though, what does it seek to accomplish? Is it a grift?

>>17323129
lmao you're telling me the trump administration or biden administration is critiquing institutions and social order? wow!

>>17323139
it takes 5 seconds to search up "critical theory" instead of waiting for biased pol responses

>>17321805
It's not my job to educate you, sweatie

>>17323139
Intersectionality is a huge grift and psyop. The seeds of it were cooked up by the CIA to subvert OWS, and that is how the movement changed its focus from getting rid of corruption in the banks and Wall Street, to petty identitarian issues. It's also where the progressive stack comes from.

>>17323207
>The seeds of it were cooked up by the CIA to subvert OWS
Intersectionality is older than OWS

> It's also where the progressive stack comes from.
What does this mean? You mean the culturally progressives?

I see a lot of criticism of the fruits of intersectionality and critical theory but not of the actual content.

It's like saying mein kampf is bad because it causes hatred (people have agency too)

>>17323242
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_stack

>>17323284
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_stack
Sounds like some retarded hippie read animal farm and found it a good idea

>>17323284
>>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_stack
wow link a wiki article you're so smart! give me examples as to where minorital groups were given extensive power through "progressive stacking"

>>17323262
Judging something based on its results is a pretty good metric.
>It's like saying mein kampf is bad because it causes hatred (people have agency too)
That's a shitty analogy.

>>17321805
What a horribly reductive way to see the world.

>>17323326
You literally never heard of a white person being silenced by a nigger saying "check your privilege"?

>>17323331
It's meant as a tool for doctors to help understand their patients situations, for example if you wtre to treat a Muslim woman it would not be just a Muslim woman but also a mother of kids, a wife, a (whatever her occupation is), etc

Yes, that's how retardesque the explanation was

>>17321846

>>17321805
>Upper and Middle class are opposed to Working Class and Poor

Class and economics are not one and the same.

>>17323338
I can tell you haven't read a book in a while. /pol seems like you're spot buddy

>>17321805
Critical theory is more of a genre than a subject, if it has a subject, it's "the state of culture and psychology as affected by the infiltration of mass media, advertising, and modern working conditions". Frankfurt school is probably a good place to start, I am not a huge fan though.
Intersectionality is basically the idea about various forms of injustice, notably bias, can interact in certain ways when someone falls under multiple affected categories, ie gay and black, immigrant and trans, and so on. It can be a negative interference (one negates the other to a certain extent), positive interference (one exacerbates the effects of another), linear or nonlinear, or something else crazy entirely. Like being black and alcoholic is very different from being black or alcoholic, because you are way more likely to get randomly stopped and hit with a breathalyzer than a white alcoholic.
Intersectionality, the term and method of analysis, was coined by Kimberle Crenshaw, and you would probably do well to read her writings on the subject, as well as her work with the African American Policy Forum on the subject.
>>17323328
Except the media face of progressivism has very little to do with actual radicals or reformists, and much more to do with what shitty libs and rainbow capitalists have to say on the subject.
In other words, intersectionality and social justice are just painted on top of globalism, totalitarianism, and immoral foreign intervention like a veneer, and the awful shit that comes out of that isn't a product of the coat of paint, it's the war machine underneath. Only insane libs consider Kamala Harris becoming VP to be a good thing for example, but there is the "Yas been, I stan!" veneer on top associating her name with actual justice and progress, that it doesn't deserve.
>>17323370
An authoritarian way of conducting a discussion if I have ever seen one.

>>17323385
If it's a tool for libs and capitalist, how come my school newspaper (which is openly communist) uses it liberally?

>>17323385
So if I'm at the intersection of Masculine, White, Male, European Heritage, Heterosexual, Able-Bodied, Credentialed, Young, Upper-Middle Class, Anglophones, Light, Gentile, and Fertile, then I must be doing pretty well, eh?

feelsgood.jpg
tfwihnf.jpg

>>17323385
Does it look like I'm trying to have a convo with a person who says: "You literally never heard of a white person being silenced by a nigger saying 'check your privilege'?"

If you actually believe anything would come out of that or that I would be interested in that convo...

>>17323413
Isn't the content true though, that does happen

>>17323413
>actually caring about the N(igger)-word being used on a palestinian rock throwing forum

>>17323152
i was talking about education

>>17323408
It's definitely not exclusively a tool for anyone, but I'm saying just looking at the apparent consequences of any group that uses "intersectionality" doesn't tell you very much about its value.
>>17323412
Same bro. It's a pretty good position to be in right?
>>17323413
If you don't want to be honest, clear, and polite, it's probably better not to communicate at all, that's my policy.

>>17323139
> what does it seek to accomplish?

Surrogate activities for people who lack purpose and power.

>>17323511
That's disappointing

>>17323491
>It's a pretty good position to be in right?
All things considered I can't complain. I have been told to check my privilege before (online, not in person), so I checked it out and it was pretty good/nice. Then I proceeded to make my points.

The best way to approach this, I think, is to hear someone say "you're just a successful, attractive, decent man" when they 'call you out' on your privilege. It usually infuriates them when you take it as a compliment.

>>17323537
Yeah I'm a progressive, but I don't really get why people think being privileged is supposed to be a bad thing... the bad thing is the slavery and colonialism that built much of that privilege, not having it who knows how many generations later. Ideally everyone capable could be successful, attractive, decent, and otherwise privileged.

>>17323563
Quite.

>>17323563
Everyone in America is privileged bitch

>>17323598
As Jasper Høiby titled one of the tracks on 'Planet B', 'life is a gift', I am given to thinking that all of us who are living are deeply privileged. Compared to the rest of the world too, Americans are very privileged.

Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.

>>17323349
How is any of that going to help you fix her broken fucking leg?

>>17325221
Cure patients not symptoms

>>17322629
Not him but I'll explain.
Critical theory in very passive and academic sense simply assumes that every message, art etc. is more or less subtle propaganda. I think some of the founders were literature critics on side, so I guess you get the inspiration.

The problem is that this is a proposition of critical theory and you're dealing with weaponized critical theory. It needs overwhelming dominance on the narrative to be weaponized, but that's the kind of dominance that exists. Once you try to apply it outside of the approved opinions you'll notice the problems quickly.
For instance, if all messaging is propaganda, then is the proliferation of mixed race couples in the media and commercials a capitalist plan, perhaps driven by some study which said mixed race people are the best consumers? Here this won't be that controversial take, but try making a troll account on twitter and saying this in a place where libtards reside - you'll be called conspiracy theorist, tinfoil hatter etc.
And yet one of early applications of critical theory in English language - Orwell's essay "Boys weeklies" doesn't differ that much in the way it works from that conclusion. He went over various pulp fiction periodicals available in England and analysed how they lead to entrenchment of capitalism and bourgeoise mindset and so on and so on. Reason we don't call him a tinfoil hatter then? Well, because saying what he said is approved by the hegemony so to speak.

Now this would be just an attempt of trying to read things that perhaps aren't there, if not for the fact that this is fairly mild example. Now let's go to CT as the weapon to speak power to truth. Let's take something relatively simple - the word "broad". Used by Ted Kaczynski as an example of a word that was driven out of use for no reason, he did try to psychoanalyse the cause, instead of looking at it from the point of flexing power. How did word "broad" become offensive in 1970's? Because activist after activist wrote column after column which said it's demeaning to women. Eventually they signalled enough discontent that the word disappeared from first the use in media, then the use in public in general. When you're pushing open doors(that is, the power is behind you) then critical theory is a framework that allows you to tie everything to a "problematic" element and thus force your narrative.

With critical race theory for instance, you're pushing the idea that blacks in particular are oppressed and that all the disparate outcomes are a result of that. You then blast your potential critics who try to engage with you in rational or empirical level as racists and get them silenced. In this way your narrative may be 100% wrong but everyone who matters will still believe it. And this obviously is a work of generations, racism itself went through the course of being turned from fairly natural thing to a "problematic" perversion.

As for intersectionality - it's just old "losers first" repackaged.

Umm

>>17323661
Very true tbqhwy. Proggies love to paint Christianity as the progenitor of their form but they really have a hard time applying their mistaken interpretation in any uniform manner.

>>17321805
God, Imagine going into debt to be brainwashed with this garbage

>>17325543
I'm not a burger but European.
Was just wondering why we would get this as a course, it seemed very out of place.

I think the reason we have it is because a student "action group" protested about our uni having to be decolonized IE abolish western only type of thinking, and also prepare us for a globalistic world wherein we will treat minorities more often.
They *claim* for example that doctors in the West misdiagnose skin diseases on dark skin people more often and that this is a result of figurative "colonisation" (west good brownie bad).
I wish I could combat this but the newspaper/action group is known for slandering dissentors.

>>17321805
You start here.
After you've read that, you might want to read a book from within the literature or two to confirm for yourself that the authors aren't bullshitting and shit's as crazy as they say it is.
Kimberly Crenshaw's mapping the margins is an important foundational text, you can go read that.
Books like white fragility by Di Angelo and how to be an antiracist by Kendi are popular recent products of these fields of study. They're aimed at the general public and thus easy to read.
You can also read the books from within the literature first to ensure your own view is formulated without any external influences.
But cynical theories is the book you want ultimately.

>>17325564
I feel for you man.
You might want to check out James Lindsay's new discourses, he's constantly working on ways to combat this poison.
https://newdiscourses.com/

>>17321805
>believing that because you are anything on the top you have inherent privilege over anyone on the bottom.

How can they not see that this is wholly flawed logic?

>>17321805
from what I can remember the term was first coined by Kimerlee Crenshaw, in her paper "Demarginalizing The Intersection Of Race And Sex: A Black Feminist Critique or Antidiscrimination Doctrine, Feminist Theory and Antiracist Politics"
Basically the main point is that she criticises the "compartmentalisation" of racism and sexism and other discriminatory practices i.e. that if one of guilty of both, these "charges" are taken as if they were interchangeable without considering the - allegedly - deeper nuances of the interplay between discrimination based on concurrent characteristics. She argues - and so do other intersectionalists such as Solanke - that each discrimination underlies a different "experience" and that the different combinations of discriminations (for example, black and gay, black and trans, black and immigrant, black and lower class) are all unique experiences which should be taken in consideration in critical theory instead of lumping them all into the same "discrimination" generic pile.
Needless to say, this type of philosophy has long entered Anglo world mainstream (and soon will in Europe in general) which is why you see so many references to "blackness" and "whiteness" and "queerness", etc, as in that they are all different "experiences" of living which warrant different prejudices. It's also the same reason why bisexual people, despite being in LGBT, are considered to be less oppressed than trans individuals. Intersectionality is also taken into consideration and applied when it comes to hiring practices (mostly regarding disability) as well as the judicial process, where different discrimination charges may also be cumulative if done under concurrent grounds (like race and gender)
that's it in a nutshell

>>17325651
I said something similar to my sociology prof and she just said "yeah but it's still a useful tool for viewing the world"

Tfw I'm
>masculine
>male
>white
>european
>straight
>not disabled
>got a degree
>23
>attractive
>not a jew
>can have children
I'd put myself lower middle class, not poor
Technically ESL but I'm so fluent most people can't tell

Holy fuck it feels good. Hope my fellow white males have a good day

>>17325857
What I don't get is how common sense like "there's more to a person than his culture/looks/income/etc" should become a theory that everyone should study.
I bet the person who "invented" intersectionality felt as if she found something groundbreaking, what a retard.

>>17321805
>>17322629

>>17326041
>rope yourself for asking questions
ok pol

>>17326011
Kimberly Crenshaw invented the theory.
She was studying the implementation of a diversity quota in some workplace, can't recall what it was exactly.
She noticed that whilst the company had managed to hire enough African Americans to fill their racial quota, they had hired nearly exclusively black men to achieve this, not black women.
Whereas the gender quota was met by hiring enough white women.
The implied discrimination which such quotas are meant to combat did not produce the desired effect in this case, since it didn't account for the "intersection" between "marginalized" group identities.
The entire progressive stack, and how privilege is an amalgamation of your identities derives from this observation.
One may recall how Tumblr feminists had a check your privilege questionaire a while ago (I'm assuming it's still up?), where you would get a list of questions about your race, gender, sexuality etc etc which would eventually give you a score.
If you were a white western male you were basically guaranteed to get a high privilege score and the test would call you a shitlord.

>>17321805
>special exception for jews
>like racism but EXTRA SPECIAL UNGOOD because jews are special
I gotta hand it to them, they constantly manage to make themselves a focal point in every culture and people they weasel themselves into.

>>17326185
What does intersectionality say about Jews?

Why insist on being white cis male or how ever they the define the oppressor group? Just be yourself independent of those nonsensical categories, just formally label yourself trans unicorn faggot, because those categories don't mean anything. The game is playing to be oppressed, so start playing it. You don't have to start taking it in the ass, just cross the right boxes in forms. It's a clown world, and it's up to you to adjust to it, the world isn't going to adjust to you.

>>17326215
Patriarchical and white centric culture + colonialism

>>17326197
They suffer discrimination for being jewish but it's worse than both religious discrimination and racial discrimination. It's like super discrimination and they deserve special protections and special considerations. They are more important than gentiles.

>>17321805
I think intersectionality makes sense. The experience of being a black woman is different from the experience of being a white woman because one suffers from sexism only while the other suffers from racism (this is assuming we're talking about women living in a majority white country ofc. Being a black gay woman is different from being a straight black woman etc. All of these power relationships intersect with one another. A person might be racist but believe women should have equal rights etc depending on which identity groups they fall into. It's a useful lense through which to see the world and build coalitions from.

>>17326224
Amazing, they manage to hijack everything into being about them

>>17326231
Why care about racism in the first place?
Everyone suffers from bullshit in life and blacks are pretty much given an easy pass by affirmative action.

Why should a white person care about all of this?

>>17326234
They are very good at it. Christianity's ascendance helped them out though, since the most influential societies on earth for centuries accepted their holy books as legitimate and worked hard to delegitimize anything that wasn't founded on judaism.

practically speaking it's for building a sufficiently powerful political block to position against white majority populations. *obviously* muslims, latinos and trannies have nothing in common but need to bargain with the white majority for access to media, tax money and infrastructure. none of these groups by themselves can maintain any kind of political project, they intersect in the shared identity as that of the parasite
remember, none of this discourse would exist if there was no money on the table. seriously entertaining their ideas will not net you any insights

>>17326197
It either sees Jews as oppressed, due to history, or sees them as oppressors due to modern day wealth.
There's some tension within intersectionality between those who want don't want anything to do with antisemitism and those who correctly realise that antisemitism logically follows from intersectionality.

>>17326215
I mark myself as a visible minority on censuses, which I am as a white male in my part of the city. It's all subjective after all :^)

>>17326257
>that of the parasite
I simply don't agree with that

> if there was no money on the table
it's about livelihood and demarginalization of minorities

>>17326259
Just because they are wealthy doesn't mean they are oppressors. Jews have done a great deal for civil rights movements.

Not every Jew is the same either, whereas for sure everyone white benefits from white privilege.

>>17322767
What is the end goal of this branch of study? As in, what is the ideal outcome that this research hopes to justify?

If we assume that all social structures are constructed and serve a purpose we also must ask what that purpose will be if they are reformed or analyzed with a new theoretical underpinning.

>>17326242
Because many a white person in the US sees their own race as evil and feels guilty to be a part of it.
Read Shelby Steele.

>>17326283
I'm not saying I agree with any of this nonsense I'm just laying explaining some of the views.

>>17326276
>I simply don't agree with that
muslims are always buttfucked by their own radicals, latinos can't control their drug lords and trannies are without any political presence beyond that of the figurehead. describing them as parasites is not a way to denigrate them, it's to describe reality: none of these people can by themselves maintain any kind of political project. they necessarily have to exist as parasites. they would be something else if they didn't have a majority population to mobilize against

>it's about livelihood and demarginalization of minorities
yes, it's about getting more money and documentaries made about the struggle of pocs, we already know that

>>17322905
In the end, we can choose new and innovative groups to organize ourselves within but we are still primates. We will Other and Compete with outgroups to seek dominance. Critical theory is just a study of power. By that logic, i am part of a powerful but waning group and i should always fight any system that tries to take more of my power because that is the core concern.

I prefer to believe in the western concept of the Virtues instead. It addresses issues of power but doesnt reduce them to chimp level politics. It makes room to build society while it criticizes and analyzes it. Critical theory doesn't and hasn't produced anything. It is parasitic. It can only attach itself to a viable society and bleed it of meaning

>>17326329
Why would they exist as parasites? They contribute back to society which is against the definition of a parasite.

>struggle of POCs
are you saying this isn't a thing....?

>>17326291
That gender roles are cultural and not inherent.
They should undergo a more beneficial reconstruction rather than patriarchical which has obvious flaws.

>>17326355
>i should always fight any system that tries to take more of my power because that is the core concern
not necessarily. Living together in a multicultural society is entirely possible, and the suggestion that some groups abuse this egalitarian system has never been addressed as a non-problem in critical theory, that's just pol imaginations "they're coming to destroy huwhites"

>>17326242
White people should be made to care by us people of colour forming a coalition with other oppressed groups and demanding our rights which is what intersectionality is great at. This ofc is assuming a majority white nation. This plan of action wouldn't apply in South Africa for example.

>>17326355
>and bleed it of meaning
......how..?

>>17321805
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_theory

There you go.

Gives a pretty broad overview of it.

I'll just give you the short of it: It's shit.

>>17326361
>Why would they exist as parasites? They contribute back to society which is against the definition of a parasite.
none of these groups (as they conceive of themselves, politically speaking) are net taxpayers. they've constructed a coalition of people who aren't net taxpayers and also lower property value and causes brain drain while also not selecting for intelligence. they would have to construct entirely new political identities if the majority population disappeared because the current setup can only work parasitically

>>struggle of POCs
>are you saying this isn't a thing....?
I wasn't being ironic, I'm saying that I understand the need to reproduce the foundational myths of your political project

>>17326403
How is it shit if it's philosophically argue well

>>17326429
They're not taxpayers but they create wealth. Me and my fellow POC employees when we were working at Mcdonalds were keeping the business running. Managers were non-white as were the majority of the workers but we made money for our white boss who thus paid more tax than all of us combined. Being a high taxpayer doesn't mean you're the one producing the wealth.

>>17326388
>Living together in a multicultural society is entirely possible
whether it is possible or not is irrelevant. The real question is whether it is a sustainable model long-term. There are plenty of studies which show that multicultural societies create low-trust societies, and Chicago school models point towards an ever-renewing strata of lower class, immigrant groups residing in ghetto, high-crime areas where costs of living are artificially lowered, but bring down all value in said area. The lower the trust within a given society, the higher the polarisation. Political classes, media and activist groups thus may exploit this by rallying one or multiple groups against eachother while simultaneously consolidating their own powers. People are less likely to unite together for a shared purpose, as each splinter faction while inevitably go after their own interests.
>and the suggestion that some groups abuse this egalitarian system has never been addressed as a non-problem in critical theory
those who study critical theory are a priori incredibly biased, and likely the very people who stand to benefit from a legal application of intersectionality. To claim that activist and pressure groups claiming to speak on behalf of any type of minority (e.g. AIPAC, La Raza, and various other poc and minority pressure groups) have not used intersectionalism to claim power is completely false. Hiring practices, University admission policies, quotas and marketing and advertising practices all outright require the inclusion and promotion of intersectional policy lest they suffer severe economic/social consequences.

>>17326402
By deconstructing the structure of society and reducing it to power. All the myths that we hold as a consensus that justify the way we live can be deconstructed in this way. "The people currently succeeding justify their success by presenting the ethics of the system they dominate as virtuous and good. The values that counter the dominant system are evil because they reduce our power. "

In critical theory there is no good or virtue. There is merely what organizes and empowers. This is the "moral" system of the elite and the revolutionary. Neither group is generative. The elite seek to fossilize the strucutures that maintain it. The revolutionary wants to destroy the heirarchy. Neither group is interested in what would be good or fair or could lead to the best outcome because those aren't questions asked in a morally relativistic system

>>17326460
>create low-trust societies
Most multicultural, if not all societies, are Western. This is more of a correlation than causation unless there is definitive proof.

Whether a society is low in trust or not is irrelevant - it can be solved.

>>17326395
Your "rights" are a social construct not based on anything. What you want is power granted to you through appealing to the emotions of whites because you are never going to have power which would reside directly from yourself. Even when there are no whites around to be seen, you will for ever blame them for what ever bad situation you are in and unfairly you aren't being given what you would truly deserve

>>17326460
Low trust society is an acceptable drawback. Multicultural societies can integrate more people and thus have a bigger economy which they can use to feed a Warmachine to conquer even more people into your state.

1.Add people to your state
2.Economy grows
3.Use increase in wealth to fund military power.
4.Use military power to integrate more people and further economic interests. Rinse and repeat

How is this not sustainable?

>>17326442
The logical outcome of any system that relies of utilitarianism or power dynamics for its ethics is genocide or suicide. Just because the logic is sound that doesn't make it an ideal outcome if you have other ideas of what is good.

>>17326484
Rights as I define them are moral statements.
"To have the right to do x means that it would be immoral for another alone or ina group to stop you from doing x by physical force or the threat thereof." So if you believe morality has a foundation then rights can be supported by the same foundation.

I'm not advocating appealing to emotions of whites? I'm advocating organizing and demanding and fighting for our rights. If we can't conquer our rights then we don't deserve them.

>>17323413
the politically correct victimhood units and alphabet people are nothing but a single indistinct mass of mindless sniveling cattle purpose engineered biopolitical clientele for neolieberalism, I mean have you tried bringing up nietzsche or any western philosopher for that matter around your local lgbtsjwtfnpc marxist cattle? In no time you will see their little stupid cowlike eyes light up in panic. Soon enough they will start with the usual subhuman bleating "wasnt he sexist? Arent you being dangerously eurocentric? Why read books by dead white men when you could have been streaming the latest diverse and inclusive workplace comedies at netflix hulu and disneygo? Have you been taking your SSRIs and HRT? it is very important that you take the medication dr goldstein prescribed otherwise we will have to report you to corporate for mandatory sensitivity training"

>>17326501
How does utilitarianism lead to genocide? The only way I think this would be a possibility is if you were a negative utilitarian and wanted to minimize suffering. Care to expand on that?

>>17326484
...? Might makes right is barbaric, yes?

>>17326497
Because once it reaches a majority, the system must then fracture along some arbitrary line and then begin to compete against itself so that the competitive system that drives the system has something to compete against. These systems are only successful in primate politics. They are not useful outside of that. Systems that seek ultimate or outside wisom and value exploration and conquest in a different context are better because they assume the virtue of constantly seeking outside resources and a constant urge for new and more fundamental knowledge

>>17326450
maybe you're covertly building super sustainable ecosystems and skills which aren't showing up in the data. that's something I can't know or talk about. I suspect that you aren't and these current political identities will have to change once you're *really* in charge or there will be a big fall. most likely it'll be done like it's being done in poc home countries, people reigned in with military might.

>>17326522
I am not a philosopher but i know a "boring line of inquiry where you deconstruct the obvious to waste my time" when i see it.

I am not a negative utilitarianist. It's a logical outcome of making choices in a system where you assume there is no good and evil but must make choices for how to handle life and death decisions with no sense of right and wrong. You're a faggot for trying that line of sophistry with me BTW. Just present an original idea and or take a chance that might be wrong.

>>17326473
>Most multicultural, if not all societies, are Western.
Two issues here, first being the definition of Western.
Do you include the anglosphere and continental Europe? Therefore, would Serbia, Albania, Montenegro, Croatia, Kosovo and Bosnia be classified as "Western"? These countries all suffered bloody civil conflicts and several war crimes were committed within their borders, mostly on ethnic/religious reasons.
What about South Africa? Does being an ex-colony classify it as Western? I don't need to point out the racial/ethnic conflicts of the past and present going on there.
Finally, what of countries like India and Myanmar? Again, religious conflicts brought about by conflicting cultures within the same territory. It is no wonder than Poland and Iceland have no such issues, for example. The proportionality between low-trust and multiculturalism is undeniable, regardless of what politics you hold dear.
>Whether a society is low in trust or not is irrelevant - it can be solved.
It is, sure, if you outright ignore everything I said before. Read again.
>Add people to your state, Economy grows
these two points are pretty much concurrent, but you are distinguishing GDP with quality of life. I have already outlined how high immigration and low-trust stratification leads to several areas becoming hives of high crime, deviancy and anti-social behavior, which sometimes spills over to other "more stable" parts of society. Not only does this run contrary to the utopian notion of the multicultural model (as it does not account for segregation) but it also creates no real benefit for the vast majority of people, only for business owners seeking to artificially lower wages by creating massive demand for jobs.
>se increase in wealth to fund military power, Use military power to integrate more people and further economic interests. Rinse and repeat
so just neocon/neolib policies? For now the US model hinges mostly on OPEC and the petrodollar, and we'll see how long that will last. Other than that, I'm not interested in furthering the interests of an increasingly wealthy 1% by sacrificing everyone else's wellbeing.

>>17326526
No. Might is right is how you justify eating meat, human rights and the state.
>>17326528
ehm you know the point of the coalition is not the genocide of whites right? they would still be a player this isn't a game of elimination. Furthermore, if the coalition defeated white supremacy the common enemy would be gone and the purpose for the alliance would break down and political lines would be drawn completely differently and white as an identity group might end up fighting with the same people who abolished white supremacy. There is no endgame.

>>17326557
*you are not distinguishing between GDP and quality of life

>>17326556
Utilitarians do believe in good and evil tho? so you have no idea what you're talking about which is why I inquired into what you were saying because it didn't make sense to me.
>>17326543
Again people here seem to think the success of such a coalition would be the excising of whites from society? They would be there and contribute to society there just would be less privilege.

>>17326450
You produced nothing. You are a wagie who is plugged into a system to distribute food that is created by others. Fast food is a service industry. Its only product is the service of cooking food and cleaning up so that other people can use their time for other things besides cooking.

This is a low value service, because everyone can cook food. The food you serve is low quality. Therefore your job is low value and low quality.

The business owners are in the business of building the buildings you work in and making sure that the supplies you need to do your simple low value job are present.
They commission many thousands of times the infrastructure you will ever own or manage and handle orders of magnitude more goods than you.

>>17326577
>They would be there and contribute to society there just would be less privilege.
most likely there will be brain drain. the most capable will get to a place where they can't be interesectioned away from power and safety, the stragglers with low human capital will be slowly decay and die off
the poc coalition will not survive on the global scale because they aren't premiering useful minds

>>17326577
Their idea of good and evil is what produces the most or least of something for the most or least. See, you're already doing this bullshit. Rather than discuss the issue with critical theory you want to question every other ethical system. Fucking exhausting and boring dealing with you

>>17326600
I produced burgers. Which is the point? Business owners don't do anything actually. The business owners of Mcdonalds are people who own stocks in Mcdonalds. You could buy a share of Mcdonald's right now and own part of Mcdonalds and never do anything, you don't need skill or intelligence to be an owner. The inner working of Mcdonalds are handled by managers who are workers they're not owners. So no actually Owners are not that important workers are. The idea that the owners of these public companies are these high level thinkers needs to die lol.

>>17322816
just like in the soviet union doctors, (and everyone no matter their carreer) had to take courses on the glorious science of marxism leninism, those on globohomo occupied territories have to take mandatory courses on the official state ideology or religion which is cultural marxism.

>>17323207
intersectionality is not political but a question of basic human decency and concern for the horrible suffering marginalized. the mild discomfort you get from being made to question your privilege is not even one millionth of the terror and humilliation POC and queer people undergo every instant of their conscious existence from living under white supremacist christian capitalist patriarchy.

>>17326615
If you're not comfortable expounding on your ideas that's okay. I don't think this is productive anyways.
>>17326611
This assumes white superiority. If you were superior you wouldn't have lost control of society in the first place so this hypothetical scenario is nonsensical.

This is the problem with your kind. Masterbating yourself over how deeply and comprehensively you have studied and practiced philosophy will never help you produce a good idea. It's the typical response for a person with no sense. Since you are a shit thinker, you think that learning a system of thought will produce good ideas

>>17326636
Definitely not when talking to you. But please, explain how critical theory has produced good for society and the world. It sure seems to have had a positive effect on the USA.

>>17323152
by this point it's the social order, the communists, the anarchists, the radical queers, feminists and POC activists are indistinguishable from the marketing and HR departments of mayor corporations, they are not a threat to the system at all but its clergy, justifying the drone strikes and the corporate rule the souless consumer hellscape through a putrid slave morality driven liturgy of POZ.,

>>17326646
Critical theory is a useful tool in organizing minority groups into effective political coalitions this has lead to a decrease of oppression of these groups.

>>17326636
a small jewish diaspora can inject themselves into any country in the world and reach high positions. I'm not talking about supremacy, I'm just stating a fact. "losing control of society" is not the end of the world even if it's a sad state of affairs for those with less human capital. south africa is a good example. they certainly lost control of society which resulted in white ghettos but also elon musk. things have to break, nations die, that's just how it goes

>>17326664
South Africa is better for blacks now than it was before though? So I wouldn't consider that the nation dying? I assume you're associating the end of apartheid in the country as a decline because you're white and the group you identify with had a decline in power when losing its privilege but for blacks this is good.

>>17323139
The purpose is to send activists into industry in order to push it leftward. In our technological society, those who control the nature of educated labor control the nature of society itself. Academia is the most powerful institution within our society, and this is it exerting itself.

>>17326660
hot take: 'critical theory' is just sound postcolonial governance. it is a very effective means to assimilate groups into the west and tie up their identity into the managerial therapeutic state, rather than say having them become maoist revolutionaries or islamists. under intersectionality groups are defined only by their relation to the white man. from the perspective of the corporate military elite, cultural marxism is cheaper to alternatives like cristianity, socialism, which would imply a redistribution of wealth and power, instead it allows corporations to concentrate both power and moral authority

>>17326660
You will see it a good until the people you oppose are the minority and they begin to practice it on you. This is the only outcome it seeks. Conflict over who is dominant and how to usurp and maintain that dominance. What is the goal of the dominant group once they reach it?? If the goal is to just maintain a plurality of smaller groups with no leader that would never be sustainable. The long term important question is "when you are in charge of a group, what goals do you aim toward?"

Cultural Criticism is only useful as a revolutionary ideology. It always reverts to totalitarianism, facism, or oligarchy once it attains power because there is no virtue in it

>>17326687
Well yes, that's the point? It's a liberal theory after all? It's about getting concessions for oppressed groups not installing a Maoist regime?

>>17326687
This is a good take. It's a palliative.

>>17323563
They're saying your existence is fundamentally unjust.

>>17326677
I'm pretty sure south africa is declining no matter how you measure it. criminality, corruption and a looming water crisis. it doesn't look very bright. also it's still ruled by a small indian/chinese diaspora
>you're white and the group you identify with had a decline in power when losing its privilege but for blacks this is good.
I try to see nations as ecosystems and while I don't support ethnopolitics, I also think it's a viable option (or at least a useful framework to look at when formulating a strategy) if there is an opposition who's going to play in that dimension while also wrecking the place. ultimately I want good things to happen, new things being invented and new thoughts being had. it's always a walk on a tightrope

>>17326677
Do you live in South Africa?

>>17326697
There is no end game. The purpose now is to eliminate some privileges held by whites in the west. New injustices will arise because men aren't perfect. Some people will benefit from these and try to consequently defend them others will be hurt by these and will unite into a new coalition and start over again. There cannot be utopia with sinful humans but that doesn't mean those who suffer from injustice shouldn't ally themselves to fight it together.

Furthermore, I read some interesting idea the more just society becomes the more apparent smaller injustices become. Imagine someone trying to bring up workplace discrimination against black when slavery still was a thing no one would care about this injustice because the injustice of slavery overshadowed it.

So yeah, new injustices would arise and old injustice that was before unnoticed would become apparent. Struggle won't end.

>>17326716
No, but I have white and black friends there. So, I'm aware that white supremacy doesn't apply there as it does in the west. It's mostly about tribal conflicts that I'm not black enough to understand. lol

>>17326472
>>17326355

most conservative criticisms of the left are 30 or 40 years out of date, like it was still the 80s, and we were dealing with will to power nietszchean foucaultians, instead of HR cat ladies. leftist views on power and morality and truth have actually pulled a 180, instead of criticising psychiatry as an instrument of power, they retreat into a therapeutic conception of the self, instead of being postmodern relativists they cling to the authority of the media and academia, to essentialist identities, produced by marketing and biopolitics, justified not on their own merits but by the unbearable menace of a 'post truth' world, instead of being nihilistic amoralists, they have become the defenders of middle class moralism. critique of global power structures has given way to the micromanagement of subjectivities.

>>17326660
It's been more useful in making a sizable portion of whites believe tht there's something noble in losing zero sum games. That's where its power really lies.

>>17326711
https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/ZAF/south-africa/gdp-per-capita
Gdp per capita seems to be up?

>>17326677
Its strange how people don't flock to South Africa to participate in this incredible new society they have. Or Liberia. Or Tanzania. Or the Congo. All of these places are rich with mineral resources that the world wants. But the countries themselves are not massively popular destinations the same way that Spain, the Nederlands or Belgium or France are. Kind of odd, huh?

>>17326722
this is ultimately a game of diminishing returns, the strategy of a mind that can never be useful in the long term.
>Struggle won't end.
because these frameworks are not useful for creating stuff of value. it's a slow suicide

>>17326735
They're smart. Being oppressive towards other groups isn't beneficial if you fail to maintain control look at Haiti if you want proof of that. Ofc if you believe that if you were ruthless you could maintain your privileges then you should try to do so. I disagree that you can keep us down but that isn't something that can be resolved with words can it?

>>17326733
I am aware that is the state it is in now. The philosophical underpinnings of their ideology are the old ones, but the reality is that the ideology has passed into the facist stage. Their beloved progressive corporations and media complex have merged with the state and the Brave New World is now here

>>17326746
In 2019, there were 4.2 million international migrants in South Africa. This constitutes about 7.2% of the entire population, and out of this group around 2 million are women. The total net migration rate is increasing by 2.5 percent.[2] The rate of female immigration has been expanding since post-colonialism.
Source:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_South_Africa#:~:text=In%202019%2C%20there%20were%204.2,been%20expanding%20since%20post%2Dcolonialism.

Immigration seems to have increased to south Africa since colonialism ended. So I assume life got better?

>>17326727
And those are wonderful conflicts right? The machete massacres and nepotism and genocide are far preferable to a Liberal nanny state right?

>>17326748
How is ending injustices slow suicide lol? The suicide of whom?

>>17326794
Apartheid was worse for the average South African than what they have now. It's not about creating utopia is about fixing injustices as they arise. I assume that with whites removed as the dominant power the coalition between African tribes broke down and now new struggles need to be had which whites can participate in.

>>17326778
Ah, the sophistry is beautiful.

"International" is a great word to use. The majority are from other Sub Saharan African countries that border it, mostly from failed states. With the help of the UN, they were able to dismantle the legitimate South African Goverment in the 90s so the ports and infrastructure built by that government make it one of few in that part of Africa. The civil war in the surrounding region destroyed a lot. It doesnt really prove that modern SA would be worse under Apartheid today, just because the neighbor countries are so unstable.

What little industry that part of the world has is all from Multinational Corporations. There is no aspect of South Africa as a modern nation, nor any part of the horn of Africa that stands out as a model nation. And this is WITH massive NGO participation

>>17326808
Ah, so as long as we destroy anything that would have been better we can safely say that the present is the best.

>american contributions to philosophy and sociology
you people are a disease

>>17326733
>>17326687
virtue and self reliance are the values of the independent man, the craftsman, the citizen soldier and the jeffersonian yeoman farmer, in post industrial societies, running on immaterial economics based around affects and symbolic manipulation, they become a burden. even thinking too much about stuff marks you out as a wrench in the gears. the way these ideologies are justified on the institutional level actually a rational economic one, in terms of marketing, retention, engagement, in short-control. in past times 'marginalized' groups tended to become disengaged or opt for radical anti-system ideologies. as an obsessive autist who grew up on a fully atomized neoliberal society, shunned by my peers, going on the internet with trannies and alt right wackos, there is certainly a pressure to either 'identify' or 'radicalize'.
>>17326722
protestant christian civil rights mentality underlying american progressive politics, the idea of democracy to come, which can be traced from thomas jefferson to whitman, margaret mead and MLK and JFK and obama. and then there is the rather unsettling underside, surveillance, mkultra mind control, the imperial war machine

Only Islam as Tradition can destroy these demonic and depraved mentally ill freak hylics. Only the masculine principle of determination can impose the divine order of the forms and renew a society against time. ahem, ting ting ting

FUCK modernity and post-modernist sophists

>>17326557
>Do you include the anglosphere and continental Europe
Western Europe and the US

>>17326808
That's the problem you see, "whites " see no future in that sort of society so they don't participate. If you look at Tanzania or Zimbabwe you see that when "whites" participate they succeed and this creates animosity and they get massacred. But i suppose they are just super racist and they had it coming. It has nothing to do with the constant immediate danger that African nations pose. And no "white" group would be allowed to seriously defend themselves. The UN would have to disarm them and sanction them. I feel like i I remember a nation or two that tried to participate in African society and something like this happened.

>>17326749
I don't think they're doing it from a position of strategy, but one of justice. If it were the former, I could at least respect it

>>17326839
Most immigration all over the world is done by neighbouring nations? I'm pretty hard-pressed to find a nation where this isn't the case. You seem to be projecting a lot here m8

>>17326850
Apartheid was never going to survive it proved itself incapable of maintaining control over the blacks so it's destruction was inevitable. Weak regimes deserve to be destroyed and I don't trust weak regimes to provide a nation with a good future.

>>17326856
Hmmm, idk about that I'm not American and I haven't read Jefferson just the federalists and john adams. Can't comment on this.

>>17322629
Ironically /pol/ is right on that one since critical theory was started in the Frankfurt school by mostly jews. Later it moved to America because the Nazis banned it.
Basicially all it does it criticize all froms of power structures and it was a marxist idiology also funded by the USSR. When it was bannend and moved to America it kind of seeped into large parts of acedemia and that is the reason it is now so prevelent. But all critical theory is in reality is a movement specifically made to destabalize the western world and promote marxist ideas.
So yes you need to understand it to understand the modern world but it is more important for understnding why the modern world and modern acedemia is going to hell.

>>17322816
In my last semester as a history major and haven’t had a class like this. I have however had to take so many bullshit STEM classes that I will never use.

>>17326870
SA's living standard increased for the average South African but the decrease for whites was too sharp to not justify them just moving to Europe once their privileges were abolished. I don't think this is applicable to the US or Europe now. I don't think whites living standards will decrease once courts and police are reformed to be less discriminatory against people of colour thus I don't think white flight will be a major issue unless I'm missing something. Whites didn't flee the US when the privileges of slavery and segregation were abolished to use an anglo example so I don't see why they would drop out of society this time?
>>17326875
I don't respect that either. The idea that my rights are granted out of the kindness of some white liberal woman is insulting. Rights are taken not pleaded for.

>>17326911
>But all critical theory is in reality is a movement specifically made to destabalize the western world and promote marxist ideas.
Got anyone who argues this that I can rely on?

audre lorde, bell hooks, the list can go on..

>>17326879
>Apartheid was never going to survive it proved itself incapable of maintaining control over the blacks so it's destruction was inevitable. Weak regimes deserve to be destroyed and I don't trust weak regimes to provide a nation with a good future
Settler colonialism can only be successful when it's done on the back of genocide.

>>17326972
Well, you failed at genocide or didn't have the will to do what was necessary to preserve the regime. Both of these are weaknesses among the leadership that justify their destruction.

>>17326981
I was agreeing with you, and I think it is an important lesson to learn for any power in the future to consider of they are in that position.

>>17326930
Tacky, contrived poetry and long winded essays about the the emancipatory potential of pop culture. And this is the intellectualism the left is so proud of my?

>>17326998
Good then. Also, the idea of settler colonialism is bad though. Why not just annex a region then have regular immigration?

>>17327013
the leftist, lgbt and POC crowd are cucks even by their own standards, reduced to buying indulgences and crumbs of recognition from the very corporations that exploit the third world. they are detached from their original culture and the achievements of western culture make them feel humilliated, and anyways they lack the reading comprehension to understand them, so they are reduced to consuming corporate mass produced dreck which is sold to them as 'liberating'.

>>17327013
bell hooks calls beyonce a terrorist. where are you getting this idea about the emancipatory potential of pop culture?

>>17326746
>Its strange how people don't flock to South Africa
They do. All the major political parties(expect for the EFF)were in favor of ‘securing the borders’ during the last election.

>There is no aspect of South Africa as a modern nation,
All those foreigners legally and illegally crossing the border into South Africa say otherwise.

>>17326727
>It's mostly about tribal conflicts
They’re taking you for a ride.Tribalism is frowned upon. It’s all about being South Africa first and then whatever tribal identity second.

>>17321805
>Jews
>not privileged
lmao

>>17327140
Pretty much any of her books (Outlaw Culture being the one that comes to mind). That's been the schtick of people like her, Paglia, and y anyone else in the cultural studies since the 80s.

>>17322629
>>17321805
Pls don't let the anons here influence you one way or the other
Understand it yourself first before critiquing or reading other's commentary

>>17321805
Whites= evil
Blacks= great
Other races= invisible.

>>17326283
>Just because they are wealthy doesn't mean they are oppressors. Whites have done a great deal for civil rights movements.
>Not every White is the same either, whereas for sure everyone jewish benefits from jewish ethnonepotism

>>17327243
>>Not every White is the same either, whereas for sure everyone jewish benefits from jewish ethnonepotism

Jews live in whitecentric countries mostly, where being white is privileged and Jewish is not.

>>17326361
>They contribute back to society
an all black tranny society wouldn't last a year without subsidies lol

>>17327250
Why don't they make their own country without our help or involvement? they will be better off without evil white oppression right :^)

>>17327273

You must have never read British history. Even history as told by the Brits themselves do not hide how they raped the entire planet

>>17323563
We really don't care bro
there's nothing wrong with being white, privileged, successful or whatever
Who are the people sanctimoniously opining that you're bad because of what you are?

>>17327273
But they did? Israel.

>>17327242
That's certainly not true. The system entails a number of ways to criticize blacks and black culture (for example a intersectionality could and would very easily criticize homophobia or transphobia within it). It also was specifically designed to build coalitions among groups, so no one capable of attacking whiteness is invisible.

>>17327343
>easily criticize homophobia or transphobia within it
what about the crime rate?

>>17326911
>Basicially all it does it criticize all froms of power structures
the only correct bit in this post, the rest is typical /pol/ schizo space jew nonsense

please /pol/acks, read what the people you hate actually have to say and think for yourself instead of regurgitating what jordan peterson or whoever says

>>17321805
>the young are oppressing the old
I take it every other axis is topsy turvy snouter peddling as well? Lol

>>17327384
What is the difference? Most people who object to what Peterson says really only seem to claim that they're actually well intentioned? I don't even like the guy, but most responses to objections about critical theory seem to focus more on academic semantics than actual denial of the claims made.

>>17321805
start with learning about the infiltration of cultural marxism in American education. Intersectionality has nothing of philosophical value to offer the world. It is a trojan horse for globalism and communism pushed by elites via universities and mainstream media.

>>17321805

Intersectionality is nothing more than Venn diagrams but with lines. Why on earth did it get so popular and acted upon as though it was this 'new' humanities tool for analyzing relationships?

>>17327384
Nope it is just an accepted fact it was funded by the USSR. It is simply a fact most of the prominent members were jewish.
The biggest influence of critical theory was marxist literature and again it is simply a fact it relocated to New York afer Hitler took power and then it became popularized in academic circles in America. All this is widly available for you to find really
This idea of infeltration of the education system over multiple generations with marxist ideas to start a new revolution was even directly said by (((Max Horkheimer))) who was specifically known for being a philospher of critical theory in the Frankfurt school.
You lefties really need to know your own history. Or any history for that matter.

>>17323511
>e who lack purpose

I agree but to say they lack 'power' is wrong - they are the ones driving the current social trends in politics currently.

>>17321805
Try a noose around your neck.

>>17327343
its mostly white liberals projecting their own petty power politics and hypocritical middle class morality, their crushing sense of shame and guilt, on to a black other. only a small elite of black bourgeoisie actually derives any material benefits from this shit. malcom x described exactly what was going on.

the trannies and queers are easy to manipulate politically, as they are terribly ashamed of themselves and their disgusting sexual perversions and need constant reaffirmation they are in fact good people, and not perverted at all. in the end its an atomized hell society where actual communication between people is replaced by bureaucratic norms, true freedom of thought depends on a dialectic of community and the individual, if its just isolated individuals and bureaucracies, thats a recipe for a totalitarian ideological hegemony.

>>17325374
That's a brilliant phrase but what does it mean in practice

>>17327566
That in order to not be a shit doctor, and to fully help patients, one must be more open-minded and less assuming, since such attitude can lead us to misdiagnose, have the person withhold information, or not want to come back and get better again.

>>17327612
>>17327566
For example being too forceful with fatters can make them want to give up

Not necessarily intersectionality, but this book attempts to justify post modernist thinkers which are sort of the backbone for intersectional thought.

>>17327626
Well then, how is the intersectional doctor supposed to cure whales then?
If I don't tell the fat fuck "you must stop eating or you'll die before you're 50", he won't stop eating, my only hope is that he will use his rotten fucking brain to figure out that he needs to stop munching like a tard
But if I do, that's too judgemental, he'll just give up
Might as well not have another person there at all, just isolate the walking slime and hope that introspection saves the day (most likely not though)

>>17327697
As future doctors we are unironically expected to lower our standards with the following:
>fatties
>darkies of any kind
>lgbtq
>muslims

not making this up. Had an exam last week where one of the questions said it's your duty to circumcise an infant if the parents (Jewish) insist. This entire course feels like a prophylactic in order to not turn people racist (repeated exposure to said groups WILL, I am much older than the average med student and can name numerous reservations with this course, much more than the naive 18 year old can).

>>17326710
That's not my belief. If my grandfather raped my grandmother, to produce my mother, would that make my existence fundamentally unjust? I don't think so.
>>17327296
I think sometimes people present "check your privilege".
>>17327663
Hey, Simon Critchley. Love that guy. I don't think postmodernist thinkers are really the backbone for intersectional thought though. No references to Derrida's or Levinas's philosophy in anything intersectionality related I've ever read.

>>17328001
>I don't think postmodernist thinkers are really the backbone for intersectional thought though
Well maybe not a major backbone like Crenshaw, but certainly a distant ancestor

>>17328017
I guess I can agree with that, sure.
Btw Ethics— Politics— Subjectivity is pretty good work by Critchley too, it covers stuff like Freud, Violence and Metaphysics, comedy, and subjectivity. Super interesting. He also translated a big chunk of "Basic Philosophical Writings", a Levinas reader.
>t. scammed school into funding Levinas research

>>17326929
the people who created critical theory were pretty explicit about why they created it.

Why do people actively want to placate minorities that can't help themselves up? If they're retarded and disorganized despite our best efforts to help why should we continue hurting our own future for theirs?

Why, in spite of research proving otherwise being produced right in front of them, do groups still insist that X is Y? (gender roles being purely cultural is a good example)?

I can't put my finger on it why exactly but is grifting and autistic hatred for the West all there is to it? Their stubbornness makes me doubt my own sanity. Why must be accept that the vilest abominations of mankind are equal............? What's the end goal, what is there to prove anymore?

I wrote a haiku in my frustration:
"Man has grown, evolved
achieved things noble and rich
the horizon calls

behind him lies ape
with niggers, browns and kikes who
yearn to pull him back

tugging at his sleeve
they manage to make him doubt
west now lies in ruin"

>>17327317
They sure do love taking "loans" and money and equipment for "defense" from evil white privilege societies like the USA.

>>17325396
Good post

>>17326283
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

>>17328321
Why would they reject help?

>>17328184
>>17328351
>>17325396
even the medical world isn't free from bullshit, OP:
"Marc Lipsitch, an infectious disease public health researcher at Harvard’s T.H. Chan School of Public Health, argued that teachers should not be included as essential workers if a central goal of the committee is to reduce health inequities. “Teachers have middle-class salaries, are very often white, and they have college degrees,” he said. “Of course they should be treated better, but they are not among the most mistreated of workers.”"
>we can't give it to old people if they're white, equality EVERYWHERE even if it means killing through negligence
>he said, in a white nation
tl;dr whites failed the kike shit test.
https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/the-elderly-vs-essential-workers-who-should-get-the-coronavirus-vaccine-first/

>>17325396
Interesting post.
Plato already told us all art is subtle propaganda. The problem I see is that intersectionality brings up how our qualities either give us privilege or oppression, but it has no meta-ethical theory that justifies anything at all. I.e. strength is privileged over weakness because it is simply good to be strong, and bad to be weak. Its still wrong to oppress weakness- weakness should be molded into strength. But the critical theorists or intersectionals or whoever is doing this don't try to elevate weakness to strength, they try to create a system that allows weakness to stay weak. Essentially they see parasitic negative qualities (weakness, ugliness, fatness) and instead of fixing them and turning them into good qualities, they try to force the rest of society to sustain their parasitic qualities.

That being said, some things we oppress should not be oppressed. Blackness for instance is not in itself bad, its a color. I understand the bell curve, but the black people who are on the better end of the bell curve who excel most people in virtue, wisdom, skill etc should not be kept down for their blackness. What should be kept down are negative parasitic qualities

>>17326388
Yeah, multiculturalism has worked out great for the Native Americans.
This is actually my primary issue with critical theory and social justice. It's riddled with cognitive biases and inconsistencies. It's true that oppression is an issue. SJW and critical theorists do not apply their standards consistently. For example, they claim that mass immigration to Europe and America is good,and we hail the immigrants as heros that are "seeking a better life". We welcome the "diversity". But when white people immigrate to non-white countries, this is evil and we call it "colonialism". Similarly, it is considered racist to call for immigration restrictions in the west, although almost every non-western country in the world limits immigrants of foreign ethnic/racial backgrounds.
My issue isn't multiculturalism or anything like that. I am a biracial liberal and my parents were immigrants to the US. I think in many way multiculturalism has been great, and I actually study evolutionary anthropology and I have a deep interest in world cultures and religions.

My concern is the lack of logical consistency and the obvious cognitive biases. A lot of SJWs and critical theory types are not even willing to admit that they apply different standards to European and non-European cultures. Another example: there are well known academics like Paul Krugman and Noel Ignatiev who have literally claimed that European civilization is "too white" and we need more diversity amongst political and financial leaders. They say that Europe needs to be more diverse and "multicultural", and that white people need to loosen their grip White over-representation in Europe. Imagine if someone said that about Africa. That African countries are too black, and that blacks leaders have too much control of African politics and economics. What if they were saying that African countries need to become more multicultural and that we need to loosen the
grip of Black over-representation in Africa?

Now of course, you can point out that Africa and Europe have been treated very differently in the past, but that's actually not what SJWs and critical theory types do. Instead they just shut down the whole conversation and pretend like they treat Europeans and conservative exactly the same as they treat liberals and non-whites. I have no problem with multiculturalism, but I want to be able to openly discuss these issues in an honest manner, without pretending like leftist positions can never be logically inconsistent or fueled by emotions. Even leftists are not perfectly rational individuals who are incapable of being wrong. Everyone can and should be questioned, especially people who wish to say that an entire race (white people) are all inherently racist.

OP, if you are still interested in this topic, I have two recs to get you started:
>Age Race Class and Sex by Audre Lorde
This is a short, easy essay by a feminist who was writing about intersectionality before the term was coined. This essay describes the concept perfectly, and the necessity of the concept, without ever using the word.
>feminism is for everybody by bell hooks
This is a bit longer, but still short at 118 easy pages. It introduces feminist concepts like patriarchy and consciousness raising, without being man-hating. It talks about how men are harmed by patriarchy, too. Intersectionality and feminism have become inextricably entwined, so it's kind of important to understand each to get the other. You don't have to make feminism your worldview (I haven't), but their perspective is nice and relevant.

>>17328547
Holy fuck this is some nigger Logan's Run bullshit. The previous paragraph says straight out that vaccinate people CAN STILL TRANSMIT THE VIRUS. So some brown McDick's workers by this logic- fuck this i need a walk. Up here in leafland imma half to figure out how to scam the vaccine into my grandparents. ridiculous. Zero-sum game this intersectionality shit is. Above Anon's right about that. thanks for the redpills lads

>>17328814
>They say that Europe needs to be more diverse and "multicultural", and that white people need to loosen their grip White over-representation in Europe
They should because they ought to set an example to the rest of the world while they still can.

>>17328827
You are more vulnerable as a black person though, why is that so hard to comprehend?

>>17328814
Read Kaczynski's analysis of "leftists," as those people fall into those categories -- specifically their tendencies towards self-hatred and feeling of seeing non-whites as inferior.

Such people will, also, lament consumerism/corporatism/exploitation, but essentially want to integrate more people into the system. Their signaling is consumerism in action. Cognitive biases are dismissed because they have a certain status-quo in mind for their idealist consumer society. If you, for instance, lay claim to being anti-immigration/multiculturalism, they will decry this; not because it's morally-wrong, but because it would disrupt the system. Morality is just a catch-all to justify their consumerism.

You can really just dismiss these people because they're hyper-religious in nature. Blasphemy has no place. They'll have to come around on their own.

>>17328860
because they're not. some black 16 year old will not die from covid-19, my grandparents will.

>>17329020
Black communities in the US in general are still more susceptible to damage from pandemics.

>>17329081
why?

>>17329206
Are you going to deny that blacks still are a marginalized group in the US? Because if so, I'll keep posting links to beat your narrative down.

>While some of this could be due to the long-standing inequality issues in the US that we have become familiar with, other reasons are perhaps more unexpected and could potentially have been dealt with.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52245690


>Early data of the Covid-19 crisis, broken down by race, is alarming. In the US, in Chicago, as of early April 2020, 72% of people who died of coronavirus were black, although only one-third of the city’s population is. In Georgia, as of 17 April, white people accounted for 40% of Covid-19 cases where race was reported, although they represent 58% of the state. In the UK, of the first 2,249 patients with confirmed Covid-19, 35% were non-white. This is much higher than the proportion of non-white people in England and Wales – 14%, according to the most recent census.

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200420-coronavirus-why-some-racial-groups-are-more-vulnerable

>>17329206
You're implicitly accepting his thesis that black people being more prone to victimization justifies taking resources away from others.
The correct response to >>17329081 is to call him a retarded sociopath, and in an emergency to exile or kill this person.

Sane, mentally healthy people recognize that protection of specifically vulnerable groups is more important than broadly vulnerable groups. Old people are most at risk. Old people go to the front of the line. Anything else is retardation or sociopathy.

>>17329241
More black people are dying of COVID in the US because their skin is full of melanin that blocks UV absorption and therefore they produce less vitamin D.

>>17329257
>You're implicitly accepting his thesis that black people being more prone to victimization justifies taking resources away from others.

The whole policy of the vaccination program is to give the risk groups the first care. How is that even a thing to be discussed? Less people will die that way.

And yes, old people are a priority too. What's your point here?

>>17321805

>>17329272
There are a finite number of doses. You cannot direct doses to young black communities without taking them away from elderly communities.

>>17329257
well i am a communist black supremacist.

>>17329306
How does it feel to know that Africans don't even want you back?

>>17329295
Nowhere in the article does it say that though? The point of this thread is intersectionality, upon which you must agree that black+elderly has worse health outcomes than white+elderly.

>>17329327
But Mr. BLM isn't arguing that black elderly people should get it before white elderly people. He's arguing that all black people should get it before white elderly people.

>>17329336
Liar.

>>17329336
That's a good position to hold though, since what's going to happen realistically is that there will be a middle ground, which is what "Mr. BLM" is looking for: more recognition of black vulnerability and an adequate response

>>17329372
He's defending this(>>17328827) article, which specifically states that young black essential workers should be prioritized over elderly people because the latter are more white, for the reason that black people as a whole are more vulnerable, with the implication being that they are more vulnerable than the elderly because they're black. This is not only untrue, it is so obviously untrue that there is no one anyone can in good faith really believe and argue for it. Given that he's said he's a black supremacist, it's not a reach to suggest he's realpolitiking that black people should get priority because he just doesn't care about whites of any kind dying.

>>17329400
>No anon, the self-described black supremacist communist is really a neocon in disguise who wants a middle-ground to preserve stability. He is not, as he explicitly says he is, prioritizing any and all black lives over any and all white lives.

>>17329405
black ESSENTIAL workers, that's essential AND black.

Did you skip high school English class?

Intersectionality is just another scam to condition white people to give away money. That's the goal. That's the only goal. They want your fucking money.

>>17329441
Affordable healthcare is just another scam to condition white people to give away money. That's the goal. That's the only goal. They want your fucking money.

>>17329431
>No anon, you're wrong
>Blackanon wants to prioritize young black people extremely likely to survive a bout of infection
>He doesn't want to prioritize all black people, which would at least include elderly and middle-aged blacks who are liable to need help
>There, I helped blackanon in the argument!
With friends like these, who needs enemies?

>>17329454
>>Blackanon wants to prioritize young black people extremely likely to survive a bout of infection
Are you going against the actual consensus of Harvard doctors? kek

>>17329458
>Oh no, he disagreed, I'll just ethos harvest so if he disagrees I can call him a crackpot or populist or conspiracy theorist!

>>17329492
Ignore >>17329458 he's a retard

a better question you should ask is why their entire worldview can be refuted by a handful of NEETs in a single thread, yet it rules Western academia.

Imagine walking around in China and trying to convince people they should be nicer to muslims. Imagine how ridiculous you would sound. Lol, the Han chinese majority needs to give up their privilege. You'd just be laughed at. Only white people are stupid enough to buy that shit. LOL go to Israel and explain to them how their jewish privilege is harmful to the arabs there.

>>17329241
Those articles are just they are poor so this must mean they are opressed presenting no alternate possibilities and at the same time stating no evidence for racism. How about they are poor because they have lower IQ and in our western white society IQ and succes and thus income are quite strongly linked.

Furthermore with new black immigrants their IQ is higher which is what allowed them to leave Africa and as a result they actually do better in the US.
Another possible reason why black people die so much from covid is that they don't listen to the rules. We can see from simple crime statistics they are far more likely to be criminals and so it is not strange to assume they would also ignore covid rules more.
Just because one group does worse in a society does not mean it is the fault of everyone else. That is really a childish view of the world

If black americans want reparations just remind them that they live here and not in east Africa. They are outrageously privileged from a global perspective.

>>17329527
Chinese didn't
>extract wealth from other nations for centuries
>eradicated the roots of millions of people that they enslaved as well and then segregated for another century based on their supposed inferiority, a myth which lingers today still and causes immeasurable damage
>culturally impose themselves upon their neighbours (yes, now it's different but that's not the point)

>>17329530
>Those articles are just they are poor so this must mean they are opressed presenting no alternate possibilities and at the same time stating no evidence for racism. How about they are poor because they have lower IQ and in our western white society IQ and succes and thus income are quite strongly linked.
When you adjust for SES and education you will find their IQ to be the same.

>>17329530
>We can see from simple crime statistics they are far more likely to be criminals
more likely to be caught you mean. White americans rape and murder at exactly the same rate as blacks but the fox news kkk media and ben shapiro cover it up

>>17329544
You're in for a rude awakening when there are no white people left to protect you.

Most interesting thread I've seen in a while. The article anon linked which I posted a screenshot from
>>17328827
has high level doctors saying "POC" "front-line workers" (I scoff at both terms) ought to receive the vaccine before white elderly people out of some kind of reparations based argument.
That because white people have privilege, they ought to be bumped down the line. This is fucked up. Incredible these statements are affecting policy makers and public health officials.
Books for this feel?

This board is way too good-faith to ever survive in academia, sadly. The BLM retard in here would boo you out of the auditory hall and people would believe he's right and white pypo bad.

>>17329558
And how old is that tweet?

>>17329544
Africans did that as well tho.
The Bantu people started in west africa and now they have spread all the way to the souther point and from genetic evidence we know they killed all others and took their woman. Africans still see themselves as better than white people in south-Africa and currently opress them. So would you say Africans should threat the various tribes better and help them be represented in society because of how mean they have been?
No because in Africa you would then at best be laughed at and very likely you would be killed

>>17329558
>some kind of reparations based argument.
lol
>destroy all process made in the black community to become equals because hey vaccines for the non-marginalized too!
>this is somehow good

>>17329551
Well that is just not true. There are aslo studies which have shown education has not that much effect on IQ scores and it is quite accepted that IQ is for a large part inheritable. Plus the IQ of Africans hasn't changed in more than a 100 years and in those times they for sure have gotten acces to better education.

>>17329599
Yeah race sciencers don't need to post in this thread thank you very much.

>>17329577
How long ago?

https://twitter.com/HotlineJosh/status/1351611017147666435

>>17329552
> White americans rape and murder at exactly the same rate as blacks but the fox news kkk media and ben shapiro cover it up
Then why would CNN or MSMBC not expose it? or why would the FBI not expose it?
Why are violent areas always the black and latino areas where you can not safely walk at night? Do you seriously think the big bad media is covering up white crime statistics just to keep a brotha down. And that they do this in literally every country in the world because everywhere blacks are more criminal? Let me guess it is still the white mans fault that 25% of all back south-Africans admidded to raping someone.

>>17329632
>Then why would CNN or MSMBC not expose it? or why would the FBI not expose it?
everyone in their right mind already knows that black crime rate is due to SES and institutionalized racism.

>>17329241
viruses cannot be "racist". blacks die because the comorbidities that make COVID-19 lethal are very prevalent among blacks. they are fat and stupid and don't wash their hands or refrain from touching their faces. they are marginalized, but this marginalization ceased to be from discrimination decade ago. they are marginalized because they suck at civilization, and despite trillions of dollars being thrown at them annually, they suck not a bit less.

>>17329614
>How long ago?
Started in 3 - 2000 BC and they reached and killed the last tribes in the south from 500 - 1200 AD
By then the Chinese empire had already fallen and been rebuild multiple times. The difference is also that violent replacement was not that common in China. They for a large part forced their culture on a people and immigrated and mixed with them like they are doing in Tibet unlike Africans who just killed them.

>>17329614
>No actual science allowed
Typical

>>17329642
Again that is just not true. IQ doesn't change that much as a result of education. It can increase a few points but not even close to 15

>>17329653
It's not the virus that is racist but one must admit that the effects of segregation still put the black community at a disadvantage which has not been rectified yet, unless you of course believe they are all genetically stupid and therefore more likely to be poor (a more mature person would have the explanation be that it's perpetualized by a regime that needs an underclass, in this case black and poor).

>Started in 3 - 2000 BC and they reached and killed the last tribes in the south from 500 - 1200 AD
Those tribes are gone, we have to move on from it. And in reality you WILL see that whites who were experiencing racism in the past have been remunerated and compensated.

https://spandrell.com/2017/11/14/biological-leninism/
https://spandrell.com/2017/12/13/bioleninism-the-first-step/
https://spandrell.com/2018/01/21/leninism-and-bioleninism/

>>17329694
Post the science then, coward.

>gee what could living in poverty, in a destabilized family unit with bad living conditions possibly do to how you score on a paper test

>>17329700
>have been remunerated and compensated.
Still no compensation from the Arabs. nor from Mongolia. In the real world there is simply no compensation. The difference is that both white, Asian and sometimes Arab people have been able to pull theselves up after opression. You don't beg for money and you don't comlain how everything bad is not your fault. The only people who do that are Africans

>we have to move on from it
So if we would have just genocided the Africans it would be fine and we would have to just move on from it? And a lot of tribes are not actually gone but they were pushed to areas where it was far harder to live. Perhaps they should be inveted back and the Bantu Opressors should compensate them.

>a more mature person would have the explanation
You say everything is the fault of white people and nothing is the fault of blacks. That is literally how a child views the world. No responsibility for ones own actions

>>17329760
>Still no compensation from the Arabs. nor from Mongolia
Turkey have reparations to Greece by territory and population swaps for free.

>The only people who do that are Africans
Really? Then what is all the kvetching about vaccine inequality here?

>So if we would have just genocided the Africans it would be fine and we would have to just move on from it?
There's:
1) no one to pay reparations to
2) no need to punish the descendants of those who did something centuries before them

>it's black people's fault that systematic racism like Biden's criminal acts are fucking them over

>>17329793
>Turkey have reparations to Greece by territory and population swaps for free.
>Swap
>For free
Both sides killed people who were being transferred and Turky did not pay money to greece for that.

>we are not kvetching about some fake racism like the one you made up. This is hating on people who are at present willing to kill white people to fix a system when there is no evidence of the system being broken the way they claim.

>1) no one to pay reparations to
Like I said multiple tribes where pushed to areas like near deserts for example so they still exist and they still live in those worse condition. They could certainly recieve money.
>2) no need to punish the descendants of those who did something centuries before them
Unless they are white of course. And actually black people and the chinese are still activly doing this but well again not white so who cares.

>it's black people's fault that systematic racism like Biden's criminal acts are fucking them over
Not being going to prison is suprisingly easy. Not murdering someone is easy and not raping someone is easy. Even not robbing someone but instead stuying like you have every oppertinity to and getting a job is easy. A fair amount of black people do it but a lot don't even try. That is 100% their own fault

>>17329568
January 15 iIRC

>>17325396
which works of critical theory did you read before you started writing this elaborate fantasy? none whatsoever?

>>17329870
a year.

>>17321805
Critical theory is asymmetrically applied skepticism used to destabilize narratives that you don't feel are just (also absolute values don't exist, but you and your movement embody absolute truth and goodness)

Intersectionality says that if being black gives you -0.5 power points and being a woman gives you -0.5 power points, being a black woman gives you -1.5 power points

Not complicated

>>17329920
>but you and your movement embody absolute truth and goodness
how so

>>17327438
the thing is that people like jordan peterson critique postmodernism/critical theory/marxism without engaging with them, he himself admitted to never reading any marx and pretends to critizise him, same with critical theory and postmodernism
i know you wont read a book but jonas ceika on youtube has good videos about the topic
>>17327486
yes, a lot of literature on critical theory came from the ussr, yes many of the prominent members were jewish, and? this doesnt mean anything if youre not already in some schizophrenic delusion that space jews are out for you and your tradwife
yes, the biggest influence on it was marxist literature, and? marxism is one of the most influential things in philosophy period
it relocated to new york after hitler took power? it didnt, the frankfurt school was the most influential for critical theory during and after hitler, guess where that was.
could you give me a source of that quote? i have some of horkheimers writings on my bookshelf
revolution obviously includes education of the people, which you seem to be in dire need of
i guess it sounds like some infiltration of (((them))) if you are already deep in that rabbit hole, if youre already willing to dismiss anything that belongs to whatever you think the left is
read a book, maybe a history book and try to understand what you are even arguing against. because most people on this website could not tell the difference between left and liberal, let alone google words before using them

>>17329857
>>we are not kvetching about some fake racism like the one you made up. This is hating on people who are at present willing to kill white people to fix a system when there is no evidence of the system being broken the way they claim.
Sounds like something a "n1gger" would say

>>17327250
>Jews live in whitecentric countries mostly, where being white is privileged and Jewish is not.
You wouldn't know it given Jewish average wealth, educational attainment, political and professional representation, interest groups, ect.

It's actually interesting to me that every single metric used to substantiate white privlege and systemic racism is immediately voided and thrown out by leftist when jews come up.

>>17329945
>yes, a lot of literature on critical theory came from the ussr, yes many of the prominent members were jewish, and? this doesnt mean anything if youre not already in some schizophrenic delusion that space jews are out for you and your tradwife

I was unconvinved until this post. Fuck you and your kike poison.

>>17329705
in what universe does whoever wrote this live
how can you be this wrong on only one and a half pages

>>17329958
>You wouldn't know it given Jewish average wealth, educational attainment, political and professional representation, interest groups, ect.
And yet they get killed every X or so years DESPITE THEIR WEALTH. THIS DOES MAKE THEM A VULNERABLE GROUP.

>>17329974
lmao youre not even gonna read the rest?
doesn surprise me since you have literally nothing in your head other than "its da joooos its ((((((((them)))))))))))"
read a book and google terms before you talk about them on 4chan, even a wikipedia article on marxism or critical theory would be enough
you are being lied to and your anger is being directed at a scapegoat, look behind the curtains. take the red pill, one might say.

>>17330004
You lost your credibility as soon as you started strawmanning him ebin ben shapiro style, get ye gone.

>>17329988
So every metric by which it is substantiated that a group - namely whites - is privileges suggest Jews are even moreso but this is invalid because muh holocaust?

Maybe /pol/ is on to something when it comes to the political power of the holocaust narrative.

>>17330004
>>17330034

>>17329945
>a lot of literature on critical theory came from the ussr
And like I said they directly funded the Frankfurd school with the intention to promote communism
>yes many of the prominent members were jewish, and?
Like I said Poll is right on that one.
>this doesnt mean anything if youre not already in some schizophrenic delusion that space jews are out for you and your tradwife
Or it means that when so many Jews promoted communist thought this was one of the big reasons the nazis hated them instead of the just cause a lot of people seem to think.
>it relocated to new york after hitler took power? it didnt, the frankfurt school was the most influential for critical theory during and after hitler, guess where that was.
yes it did. First it moved to Geneva and then it joined the columbia university in New Yorck.
It stayed there untill 1953 when it came back to Frankfurt. It was influential during Hitler because it was in America and it started promoting ideas there.
>could you give me a source of that quote?
The revolution won't happen with guns,rather,it will happen incrementally, year by year,generation by generation,we will gradually infiltrate their educational institutions and their political offices,transforming them slowly into Marxist entities as we move towards universal egalitarianism. Statement made by him
>revolution obviously includes education of the people, which you seem to be in dire need of
You are even to stupid to read the wikipedia page on the Frankfurt school.
>if youre already willing to dismiss anything that belongs to whatever you think the left is
And you are clearly willing to dismiss anything as soon as someone even talks bad about a Jew.
>let alone google words before using them
Ironic
>try to understand what you are even arguing against
I would suggest you start to understand what you are arguing for because you clearly don't understand the long term effects

>>17330034
stop being surprised that they're hypocrites or that they're not acting in good faith. just use every opportunity you get to point out how muslims throw gays from roof tops, how hispanics wage effective race wars against african americans, how the arabs have sold africans into slavery for thousands of years and continue to do so. they don't actually believe in the fidelity of their own coalition but it's useful to put some salt in the wounds

>>17330092
>point out how muslims throw gays from roof tops
A fringe minority in countries that aren't Western. Muslims in the West shouldn't have to apologize for that. Fuck is your point, there are a thousand branches of Islam, some of which evil. Of imperialism all is evil though, hence Whites reap what they sow now.

>>17330132
Actually a very large part of western muslims is anti-gay and a fair amount supports this killing and the terrosism. Also in the arab world this is not some small minority but a very large group of people who have no problem with all the death reaped by islam.
Imperialism is also not just a western thing. Turkish occupation of the balkans, chinese occupation of its surrounding areas could all be classified as imperialism. We are actually the only ones who feel any regret for doing it and want to improve the countries we once colonized.

>>17330132
i'm white and i'm doing pretty good for myself rn lmao

>>17330132
Salafism is the majority in several middle-eastern countries including Saudi Arabia, Qatar, and the UAE. It's not unpopular in many other regions either, and is ever growing.

>>17330059
>And like I said they directly funded the Frankfurd school with the intention to promote communism
yes, good
although some writers of the frankfurt school hated the USSR
>Like I said Poll is right on that one.
right on what? on da joooos controlling everything and using marxism to subvert the world through usury and exploitation? or just right on the fact that there were many jews in germany at that time
>Or it means that when so many Jews promoted communist thought this was one of the big reasons the nazis hated them instead of the just cause a lot of people seem to think.
nazis hated communists because they were their only true enemy. this is a historical fact, liberals and other capitalists usually allied with the nazis or other fascists until their lust for power gew to large or they were part of some fascists scapegoat (usually jews) of course many jews were communist.
>yes it did...
the frankfurt school was way more influential than columbia university and even then, what does it matter? this is only shit you would care about if you were already convinced of some conspiracy
>The revolution won't happen with guns,rather,it will happen incrementally, year by year,generation by generation,we will gradually infiltrate their educational institutions and their political offices,transforming them slowly into Marxist entities as we move towards universal egalitarianism. Statement made by him
youve just proven that you have never read even a single page of literature by marxists, about marxists, or critiquing marxists. if you had read a few introductions to a few wikipedia pages you would be more informed than this. fucking laughable, read a book, cretin.
marxists are not even egalitarian
you dont know what you are arguing against dude, what are ou doing on /lit/
>You are even to stupid to read the wikipedia page on the Frankfurt school.
lol
>And you are clearly willing to dismiss anything as soon as someone even talks bad about a Jew.
i used to be right wing. ive spent like 6 years on this website. back in the day i used to agree a lot of what was being talked about on /pol/ or other more reactionary boards but just ignored the whole jew part. then i started actually reading (remember we are on a literature board) some books about and by the people 4chan hated, spent more time working and engaging with people and realized that rich people are the problem, not jews. i have more in commong than my indian, chilean, or maroccan collegue than with any rich white christian man and sometimes, that same rich white man wants me to hate jews to distract me.
>Ironic
what you think a revolution in marxian terms is was such an embarrassment im not sure you know what irony means
>I would suggest you start to understand what you are arguing for because you clearly don't understand the long term effects
i know the long term effects very well and i yearn for the day my country gets some of them again soon

>>17330132
the point is pretty clear, gays are fucked if muslims ever gain any serious political influence and it's important to hammer this point
>Of imperialism all is evil though, hence Whites reap what they sow now.
I don't care. you're the one who's stubbornly stuck in history, as if it ever could've been anything other than a butcher's yard. I only care about building better stuff that will allow us to flourish even more, pointless monkey tribal shit is out of the picture. it'll be okay as long as pocs are kept far away from all cerebral activities and all their political efforts are steered into manageable cul-de-sacs

>>17330214
>the point is pretty clear, gays are fucked if muslims ever gain any serious political influence and it's important to hammer this point

even the most progressive voter will be against human rights abuses by extremists, their point is to not marginalize muslims who adhere to humanitarian standards because of another group of muslims that doesn't

>>17328736
>whoever is doing this don't try to elevate weakness to strength, they try to create a system that allows weakness to stay weak
they actually make the weak virtuous. this is called slave morality
>black people... who excel... should not be kept down for their blackness
what about being elevated simply for their blackness? this is what I see most often in government, academic, and corporate policy

>>17330200
>right on what?
a lot of Jews being communist even before the nazi party became big. Also about jewish overrepresentation in the upper echalons in the Weimar republic.
>nazis hated communists because they were their only true enemy. this is a historical fact
And they were their true enemy because so many were communists. and because they choose their own people over the German people.
>youve just proven that you have never read even a single page of literature by marxists, about marxists, or critiquing marxists. if you had read a few introductions to a few wikipedia pages you would be more informed than this. fucking laughable, read a book, cretin.
I read more than enough and in stead of actually coming up whith any arguments all you do is screem like an idot. You might also read books but it clearly hasn't made you any smarter.
>im not sure you know what irony means
I found it Ironic that you told me I couldn't google words while even a simple google search would have proved you new nothing about the history of the Frankfurt school
>i know the long term effects very well and i yearn for the day my country gets some of them again soon
If you want your country to go back to communist days you are yearning for being left behind on everything. No marxist theory has been effective and it always implodes on itself.

>>17326808
>now new struggles need to be had which whites can participate in
Yeah like the struggle to not be murdered on your farm for being white

>>17326808
Need..? Need? The arrogance, no, the audacity behind this post.
Whites should just kick out all niggers and get over it.

>>17329544
Wrong on the very first point. China DID in fact extract wealth from other Asian nations. They were called tributary states, you fucking retard. Entry level history.

>>17329544
Also to unify China, Qin Shi Huang systematically annihilated any other form of culture he could. Scholars were executed, language was destroyed, genocide on a massive scale was carried out so that China would move past its fractious period into a unified empire.
Before you say "but that was their own people" I'll point out that Qin dynasty China proper was significantly smaller at the time, and the majority of greater China was occupied by a large number of different ethnic groups, most of whom would never have called themselves Chinese in the modern sense.
So the second and third points are also totally wrong.

>>17330299
>a lot of Jews being communist even before the nazi party became big. Also about jewish overrepresentation in the upper echalons in the Weimar republic.
good for the jews, being communist and all that. although yes, jews have been historically overrepresented in the upper echolons of society because of a history of relying on usury (which turned out to be extremely profitable so other people started doing it too), the average jewish person doesnt see any of george soros' wealth. theres is a conspiracy of the rich and powerful against you, not of jews.
thats something a material analysis (perhaps a marxist/historical materialist one) of the world would lead you to. yet for some reason you are consumed by some essentialist racialist view and completely distracted of the real issue. fuck bourgeois jews. but not the jews like us.
>And they were their true enemy because so many were communists. and because they choose their own people over the German people.
you that not only jews were communist right? they were the nazis true enemys for ideological reasons, because they realized how fascism is capitalism in decay. ALL communists were prosecuted by the nazis, but looking at their propaganda posters youd think all of them were jews.
>I read more than enough and in stead of actually coming up whith any arguments all you do is screem like an idot. You might also read books but it clearly hasn't made you any smarter.
like what? you dont know anything about leftism, communism, marxism, critical theory or history, what have you read? tolkien? and if you dont know your stuff, why spend time talking about it?
>in stead of actually coming up whith any arguments all you do is screem like an idot
coming from someone convinced that a loose collection of people not bound by anything but "blood" are causing every problem in the world, completely forgetting about who holds power
everything youve said ive read a thousand times before on this site, youre just screaming into the echo chamber like most people here
>I found it Ironic that you told me I couldn't google words while even a simple google search would have proved you new nothing about the history of the Frankfurt school
come on now youve got to be taking the piss
>If you want your country to go back to communist days you are yearning for being left behind on everything. No marxist theory has been effective and it always implodes on itself.
the GDR was very prosperous for most of its life, even under extreme hostility from most of its neighbours until it was annexed by west germany
actually im pretty sure you would prefer the society of the GDR to todays in most of the west. people had strong communal stability, everyone knew their neighbours well, a lot of funding was put into local communities, there wasnt all the degenerate aspects of late stage capitalism, well functioning families because women were liberated, everyone looked out for one another and so on. maybe you should read up on it.

>>17330420
>theres is a conspiracy of the rich and powerful against you, not of jews.
I never said in the first place it is a conspiracy of all jews. But in the upper echalons the jews stick together and choose eachother over the common good. Normal rich people are very easy to control if only the government wants to. Removing them completely is just counterproductive.
> fascism is capitalism in decay
Still believe this really?
Believe it or not there are more possebilities than capitalism bad and communism good.
>and if you dont know your stuff, why spend time talking about it?
Right back at you. The first thing you did was claim wrong things about the Frankfurt school and its philosophers even tho you said you read them. All this shows to me is that you might read books but you don't understand a thing about them.
>the GDR was very prosperous for most of its life
Holy shit no. Look at east and west Germany and tell me which is more prosperous. The only reason it was richer than most other communist countries was because Stalin invested far more into it to act like communism worked and even then it didn't come close to the west.
>people had strong communal stability, everyone knew their neighbours well, a lot of funding was put into local communities, there wasnt all the degenerate aspects of late stage capitalism, well functioning families because women were liberated, everyone looked out for one another and so on. maybe you should read up on it.
You also forget that you don't need communism to achieve this. Plus those great things went hand in hand with high poverty and and an extreme police state because everyone knew life was shit compared to other places

>>17330512
>I never said in the first place it is a conspiracy of all jews
my bad, im almost used to people being into that by now. the thing is, all rich people stick together and choose each other over the common good. always. "normal rich people" who the government needs to control are not the issue. its the actual rich people, the capitalists, the owner class, the ones who own the factories and farms and so on. they control the government, not the other way around. liberal democracy is a tool of the bourgeoisie and serves only them.
>Still believe this really?
Believe it or not there are more possebilities than capitalism bad and communism good.
fascistm ALWAYS arises out of decaying capitalism. so does communism, but fascism doesnt seek to destroy capitalism, it allies with it. this is very clear from german history.
>The first thing you did was claim wrong things about the Frankfurt school and its philosophers even tho you said you read them
what wrong things have i claimed? you were wrong about: critical theory "moving" out of germany, the entire concept of revolution, an infiltratio of the education system, why communist were and still are fascists enemies, how rich people act as opposed to rich jews, the concept of fascism and capitalism...
tell me, what did i get wrong? and you still havent told me where you got all this wrong info from
>Holy shit no. Look at east and west Germany and tell me which is more prosperous
not even gonna get into this because its gonna get tiring, but the GDR was under constant pressure, had to rebuild a ravaged land with very few allies, and did pretty damn well for itself. most people look back fondly on it, although there were problems in how it was run, the people of the GDR are freer than i am in current germany.
>You also forget that you don't need communism to achieve this. Plus those great things went hand in hand with high poverty and and an extreme police state because everyone knew life was shit compared to other places
you dont NEED communism or more accurately for the GDR socialism for this, but it helps, since capitalism actively works against all those things.

>>17321846

>>17329285
UNDERRATED

>>17329937
That phrase was meant to betray a huge contradiction in the minds of critical theorists. They typically deny transcendent moral truth, but this is only to confuse and demoralize their enemies, since they clearly believe that their moral beliefs are real, valid, and worth spending their careers defending. An extreme and illustrative example could be as such:
>all morality is socially constructed and a reflection of the historical context, experiences, and assumptions of groups that are self-interested. Morality is a tool of political hegemony and, and truth claims are only that, claims, meant to enforce systems of power.
>Racism and inequality are evil.
This is the selectively applied skepticism; critical theory is an activist weapon, a cup of acid meant to be thrown in the face of The Enemy. It has no positive content

>>17322771
>kgb
>existing at same time as frankfurt school
how can you believe such charts when it's instantly based on something false?

>>17321805
intersectionality is anglo americanism. its completley dependent on autistic american tendency to put things into boxes and the relationships between those boxes.
latin america, for example has a totally different view of race, owing to its early tolerance of race mixing and by and large better history on slavery.
anglo american views on race are by comparison cold sterile robotic...it makes sense the computer, programming languages and the internet (where everything is a box inside another box) comes from america

>>17322771
Back to your containment board please

>>17332026
>American tendency to put things into boxes
>American
really?

>>17322771
woman with jobs, nooooooooooooooo

>>17330132
>moslems are free from "guilt of the father"
>but not you, hu-whitey :^)
:^)

>>17329285
kek

>>17327384
>jordan peterson
rent free

>>17329285
whole entire thread utterly btfo

>>17330132
big retard

>>17329451
Affordable healthcare and the taxation it's based is solely defined by income. There are no race clauses. Rich black people will pay for the healthcare of poor whiteys just as well rich white people will pay for the healthcare of poor blacks.