/lit/ - Literature

>>17316758

I don't think Orwell killed anyone.

>>17316763
He killed the young commie in me.

>>17316763
He did, he kiled two soldiers with a grenade in Spain. He was attacking some place at night, he saw two enemy soldiers lying in a trecnh and he threw a grenade at them. He described that he could hear only one person scream in agony, but my interpretation of that was that one guy was killed on instant and the other mortally wounded.

>>17316762
Did he ever kill anyone in person?

>>17316779
Probably, in WW1.

>>17316758
I don't like his mustache or his face. It's too quirky; he's laying it on a bit thick.

>>17316785
I think you have a problem with his lips.

>>17316758

>>17316758

>>17316758

He served in the korean war. Does anyone know if he killed anyone?

>>17316779
He was a decorated war hero in WW1. He probably killed his fair share.

>>17316787
maybe he shaved his mustache like that to make his lips look fuller.

>>17316887
Maybe, it looks like he has a comically small upper-lip.

Based as always

>>17316891
Really? When and how?

>>17316893
He was in the trenches in WWI, and participated in the battle of the Somme and the capture of many german cities

>>17316885
Wasn’t he just a courier? Dangerous work but it can be done without killing anyone

>>17316885
>decorated war hero
his medal is from a delivery mission from what I remember, though he was wounded from a granade

>>17316920
>During the war, Hitler served in France and Belgium in the Bavarian Reserve Infantry Regiment 16 (1st Company of the List Regiment).[5][6] He was an infantryman in the 1st Company during the First Battle of Ypres (October 1914), which Germans remember as the Kindermord bei Ypern (Ypres Massacre of the Innocents) because approximately 40,000 men (between a third and a half, many of them university students) of nine newly-enlisted infantry divisions became casualties in the first twenty days. Hitler's regiment entered the battle with 3,600 men but at its end mustered only 611 men.[7] By December, Hitler's own company of 250 was reduced to 42. Biographer John Keegan claims that this experience drove Hitler to become aloof and withdrawn for the remaining years of war.[8] After the battle, Hitler was promoted from Schütze (private) to Gefreiter (lance corporal). He was assigned to be a regimental message-runner

>>17316779
at least himself (according to """official""" documents)

>>17316763
I bet he killed that tramp who tried to rape him.

>>17316830
Nice one

>>17316807
Based butterfly

>>17316807
Who is he?

>>17316893
He was a soldier in WW1. Most notably in the battle of the Somme.

>>17316919
No German cities were captured in WWI.

>>17316885
You can stumble through wars without killing a single soul.

>>17316919
One of WW1's greatest departures from prior wars was the emergence of the first recognizably modern heavy weaponry. These weapons were capable of killing in much greater numbers, and as such began pretty much immediately to take credit for the lion's share of casualties. The term "meat grinder" as applied to combat can reliably be traced back to WW1. It's hard to overstate the dramatic shift in warfare that occurred at the end of the modern age. Prior wars could be brutal and bloody, but they were never bloody in the way WW1 was. In previous wars, the individual soldier was still able to be an individual agent on the battlefield and take at least nominal agency in his fate. In WW1, an artillery shell could, and often did, kill or incapacitate entire battalions in a flash and puff of chemical smoke. The individual soldier in late WW1 essentially existed to die. There was little he could do except to pray that luck was on his side.

The British infantry in particular did very little killing at the Somme. That was accomplished almost entirely with indirect fire. The absolute last thing I'm trying to do is trivialize the fucking horror it must have been to be a British infanteer at the Somme. My point is that, unlike what many people seem to think, being a combat soldier on the front lines doesn't guarantee you will ever actually kill anyone. All it guarantees is a whole lot of misery and bearing witness to a lot of death. From the late Modern Age onwards, very rarely does the individual soldier personally visit death upon anyone. That is most often the purview of the highly sophisticated war devices we've created that can really just do it more efficiently than a human being ever could.

But only as a joke

>>17316758

>>17316758
both, probably.

>>17317374
when did schmitt kill anyone

>>17316835
Straight up murderer

>>17316758

SOME WRITERS WHO KILLED PEOPLE

>Ben Johnson
He killed a guy in a duel and they were going to imprison him or execute him for it but he pleaded "benefit of clergy". This means, he showed he could read and write Latin and Greek and hence was too valuable an intellectual to be thrown away.

>Ernst Junger
It might be fairer to say "he was a killing machine who also wrote a few books". Quite right too.

>Sylvia Plath
She killed a writer called Sylvia Plath.

>Emily Dickinson
She lived as a semi-recluse in a house in Amherst, usually going for long walks or hiding in her bedroom so as to avoid meeting guests. Well-meaning relatives arranged for a number of eligible bachelors to visit her, but nothing came of this and several of the young men were never seen again. It's now considered almost certain that Emily murderered them and buried the bodies in the woods nearby, although no conclusive evidence has so far been unearthed.

>William Golding
He commanded a gunboat in WWII and was involved in some quite fierce battles, so he was certainly directly responsible for enemy casualties (although probably not in person, so maybe this doesn't really count).

>>17317278
> My point is that, unlike what many people seem to think, being a combat soldier on the front lines doesn't guarantee you will ever actually kill anyone. All it guarantees is a whole lot of misery and bearing witness to a lot of death. From the late Modern Age onwards, very rarely does the individual soldier personally visit death upon anyone.
This. Very based post anon. Have a (you)

>>17317470
>he was a killing machine
Source?

>>17317463
Sassoon too probably.
Not sure about Graves

>>17317482
One of the reasons one of the earlier English translations of Storm of Steel was replaced by later editions was that he was a little too jubilant in his description of killing a couple English soldiers.

>>17317490
Graves undoubtedly killed people personally, as did Wilfred Owen. Sassoon even more so (supposedly he flipped between hating the war and going on mad Ernst Junger-esque killing sprees).
There are really three very different classes of killing though:
* war
* suicide
* other
Probably the "other" is what OP was really meaning,

>>17316858
>Never been cancelled
How did she do it, bros?

>>17317442
>>17317374
Schmitt never killed anyone lol, he spent WW1 in an office and WW2 chilling at home reading Melville

>>17316835
Did nothing wrong, same as Althusser

>>17316762
there's nothing wrong with killing jews

>>17317568

>>17317470
>It's now considered almost certain that Emily murderered them and buried the bodies in the woods nearby, although no conclusive evidence has so far been unearthed.
What the actual fuck. Source?

>>17316931
>which Germans remember as the Kindermord bei Ypern (Ypres Massacre of the Innocents) because approximately 40,000 men (between a third and a half, many of them university students)
What is wrong with them?

How many millions?

>>17317604
t. popper

>>17316758
Test

>>17317604
Too few

>>17317538
> WW2 chilling at home reading Melville
Sounds like a good way to spend WW2 desu

>>17317568
>jews

>>17317575
jesus. why are you still on the internet, grandpa

>>17317523
Faggots and dykes don't get cancelled

>>17316758
roald dahl was a fighter pilot in ww2 with confirmed kills
a lot of writers of that generation were in ww2.

So it goes

>>17316758
Lobo Antunes.

In an interview:
>journalist :“did you ever kill in war?”
>Antunes: “Next Question”

>>17316758
Obviously

>>17317278
Good post, I think about this stuff a lot, and it makes me extremely sad.

>>17317586
This one wasn't entirely serious, sorry. I would love it to be true.

>>17316758
Accidentally killed his best friend while cleaning a gun.

>It is now almost certain that Salinger's pecuilar habit referred to cermeoniously in his unpublished diaries, totaling of up to 3000 pages, was molestation and disposal of prepubescent and pubescent girls aging from 8-15 years old. An entry of his tells of a story, while stationed in Germany during WW2, of meeting a 13 year old English girl, beginning a short-lived romance, which served as the basis for his short story (in the collection Nine Stories) For Esmé—with Love and Squalor. However, what was not known until now was the grusome details Salinger outlines after intimacy. 'The notion that I am a monster.... What am I?' and many other thoughts outline his mindset as he was 'overcame with a tremendous amount of regret,' after 'defiling her.' 'She'll just be like the rest of them,' ended the cooling entry as he detailed shoving his penis into her empty eye socket, and smashing her face in repeatedly with a rock. Many other similar stories highlight the rest of the 3000 page manuscript. It is not entirely unreasonable to suggest this was a work of fiction, as said by his son and actor Matt Salinger.

Pic related is George Macdonald Fraser. He wrote, along with the great Flashman books, my favorite war memoir ever.

Also many of the Greeks were soldiers.

>>17318707
this is a meme, right?

>>17318051
the boomers shall inherit the internet

>>17318325
Fun fact: There's speculation that Ian Fleming based James Bond on Roald Dahl.
Hilarious to think that James Bond, synonymous with being a manly man, actually wrote Willy Wonka and Matilda.

>>17318743
Dahl is based
Could see Bond doing that, since he's a Chad

>>17318827
>"If I were a headmaster I would get rid of the history teacher and get a chocolate teacher instead". Why yes, that's enough writing today

>>17318869
Based Dahl and based chocolate.
Read My Uncle Oswald for filth.

>>17316758
imagine fighting in the spanish civil war only to be killed by orwell and his stupid face is the last thing you see. I dont hate orwell BTW his face is just funny.

>>17318890
it's the tash, he'd be fine without it

>>17318890
Imagine being Orwell and thinking you are fighting for the good guys. Even more cringe.

>>17318898
Hemingway and Orwell

>>17318882
>Based Dahl
Dahl reviewed Tony Clifton's God Cried, a picture book about the siege of West Beirut by the Israeli army during the 1982 Lebanon War.[158] The article appeared in the August 1983 issue of the Literary Review and was the subject of much media comment at the time.[159][160] According to Dahl, until this point in time "a race of people", meaning Jews, had never "switched so rapidly from victims to barbarous murderers." The empathy of all after the Holocaust had turned "into hatred and revulsion."[161] Dahl wrote that Clifton's book would make readers "violently anti-Israeli", stating: "I am not anti-Semitic. I am anti-Israel."[162] He speculated: "must Israel, like Germany, be brought to her knees before she learns how to behave in this world?"[163] The United States, he said, was "so utterly dominated by the great Jewish financial institutions" that "they dare not defy" Israelis.[161] Dahl's phraseology in his original copy had been altered by the editor of the Literary Review who substituted "Israel" for "Jews" and "Israeli" for "Jewish".[164]

Dahl told a journalist from the New Statesman in August 1983: "There's a trait in the Jewish character that does provoke animosity, maybe it's a kind of lack of generosity towards non-Jews. I mean there is always a reason why anti-anything crops up anywhere; even a stinker like Hitler didn't just pick on them for no reason."[165][166] In 1990, during an interview with The Independent, Dahl explained that his issue with Israel began when they invaded Lebanon in 1982: "they killed 22,000 civilians when they bombed Beirut. It was very much hushed up in the newspapers because they are primarily Jewish-owned. I'm certainly anti-Israeli and I've become antisemitic in as much as that you get a Jewish person in another country like England strongly supporting Zionism. I think they should see both sides. It's the same old thing: we all know about Jews and the rest of it. There aren't any non-Jewish publishers anywhere, they control the media – jolly clever thing to do – that's why the president of the United States has to sell all this stuff to Israel."[166][167] Responding in 1990 to a journalist from The Jewish Chronicle, who he considered rude, he said: "I am an old hand at dealing with you buggers."[168]

>>17318956
The Witches

>>17317575
lmao, based

>>17317034
Context?

>>17316758
in Junky Burroughs talks about selling people dope they OD'd on, i guess that counts.

Marquis de Sade killed little kids

oh shit I thought we were posting tomboys not authors that have killed people
ahhhhhhhhhhhh I'm derailing the thread!

>>17316758

>>17319762
nice

>>17317460
Um ackchyually it was manslaughter

>>17317560
and was forgiven

>>17318898
>>17318902
This. Based Peter Kemp fighting for the nationalist as he should

>>17317184
Robert Graves.
One of the most underrated poets and authors not talked about here. He has every right to be our patron saint. Damaged by war, forced himself to stay in extreme states of PTSD as he equated it with his ability to create, removed himself from pseudo-intellectual society to a villa in Spain to live almost as a hermit, developed his own mythology surrounding the muse or white goddess.
Read "goodbye to all that" and then buy both his complete poems and complete short stories from penguin, and then get onto I, Claudius and then Claudius the god.

>>17319762
Jesus why can’t I get my biceps all swole like that?

>>17321040
Anon, they were all suicides. All of them.

>>17321040
KEK

>>17316758

>>17321195

oooof. ouch!

>>17321195
Too soon.

>>17316779
his dog

>>17320772
What are some books about having friends in high places?

>>17317038

what a based lad

>>17316920
>>17316930
>>17321567
>.t literally got brainwashed by a propaganda film (the rise of evil)

>>17316758
MNM-DR

>>17318374
So handsome.

>>17321010
Ty

>>17321641
He unironically tested the poison on his dog before committing suicide.

>>17318374
that part in storm of steel when they peek over a cramped english trench and drop a bunch of grenades in was brutal as fuck

>>17320772
Rightfully so.
I wish the story Rabelais tells about him were true.

>>17322030
Should've socially distanced.

>>17316835
My money is on this happening quite often to Americans. Waving guns around like toys surely leads to shenanigans.

>>17318898
cringe and retard pilled

>>17321641
Most people who love sharing the factoid Hitler was some kind of messenger or courier in WW1 got it from a highly circulated Jordan Peterson video.

HOW MANY?

>>17317575
BASED
>>17318051
cringe

add me to the list in approximately five minutes

>>17322931
I prefer Galton.

>>17316762
>people

>>17316835
It was insane how he just got away with it like it was nothing and got to live normally. Also his son didnt live long either.

>>17319762
god I wish I was that fish

>>17318898
He literally was fighting for the masses, so yes, the good guys, you cowardly degenerate.

>>17320905
Literal who.

>>17321040
I doubt she actually wrote anything.
>>17322931
No one.

>>17319509
a tramp tried to rape him

>>17323849
I do think Orwell was fighting the good fight but 'fighting for the masses' is such vague terminology that you could argue Hitler was 'fighting for the masses' as well.

>>17324193
I would argue he wasn’t

>>17318869
>chocolate teacher
For some reason when I heard chocolate I immediately thought he meant niggers and was confused why Dahl wrote that

>>17319762
That woman is yucky

>>17321040
Based and ture

>>17323618
His son's life was extremely depressing from what I remember of it.

>>17324238
Not an actual writer just some degenerate

>>17324207
I don't think he was either but my point is that the fascists along with the bolsheviks appropriated the rhetoric of the fight for the working class so now it's not enough to say 'we fight for the working class' when everyone and their mother says they 'fight for the working class'. My argument isn't that you're wrong, it's that that's not going to change anyone who isn't already a marxist's mind.

>>17324225
She’s an impressionable little bayou kid, but she’s hot and feisty. I’m jealous of her chad.

>>17324256
The POUM and all the rest were actually fighting for their freedom and their neighbors freedom. I don’t care what a lawyer could fight in a court room for or how best to deprogram a Leninist. Just not the point

>>17324309
The Soviets where litterally planning to steal Spain's gold-reserve if they won the war. Believe what you want, but it worked out better for Spain because the Nationalists won.

>>17324594
Funny way of going about that

>>17324607
What?

>>17324309
>I don’t care what a lawyer could fight in a court room for or how best to deprogram a Leninist. Just not the point
Then why try to argue with actual fascists who think Orwell was 'one of the bad guys' in the first place? I genuinely don't understand. I think the real answer is that there is no point in arguing with fascists unless you're trying to deprogram them. Otherwise you're wasting your time.

>>17324700
Point taken. Maybe my point was simply to tell the truth. He is a cowardly degenerate.

>>17324613
KGB files came to light in the 90s and they show how the debacle Orwell chronicled was a Soviet purging of anarchists. Starting with the foreign troops. Why would they intentionally try to undermine? Did they just underestimate Franco? Moronic.

>>17316763
>>17316769
>>17316774
>>17317034
>>17319509
he also killed an elephant in burma

>>17324731
I don't remember him saying anything about the Soviets purging the Anarchists in his book, but it wouldnt be hard to believe. The various factions of the Republican side where always quite hostile to eachother, they even started shooting at eachother in Barcelona.

>>17324779
>they even started shooting at eachother in Barcelona.
That’s what came of the murders, the shoot outs Orwell covered in some confusion. Only after the fall of the Soviets did we have the proof of what happened

>>17316779
>BASED HITLER KILLING LE FACKIN' JEWS!
>>17317568
>Ackshually jews never died

So which is it, bitch?

>>17321028
cute femboy!!! O///O

>>17324256
>appropriated the rhetoric
more born out of it. not like they randomly took it when they'd been saying it for decades prior.

>>17318956
>Dahl's phraseology in his original copy had been altered by the editor of the Literary Review who substituted "Israel" for "Jews" and "Israeli" for "Jewish".
why would someone do this

>>17317505
lol. Are those sections anywhere to be found online?

>>17318956
>According to Dahl, until this point in time "a race of people", meaning Jews, had never "switched so rapidly from victims to barbarous murderers."
I've thought about this a lot. Assuming the holocaust is true, it would actually be a mark against the Jews, not for them, because it would mean they went from suffering such a thing to turning around and inflicting their own holocaust (or at least apartheid) on another people within living memory of it happening to them. You might be able to excuse the Germans or the other oppressors of history by claiming they had no idea of the pain and suffering an ethnic victim burdens under; but to know that experience from what you tout as the most extreme example in all of history, and then with full knowledge of that misery turn around and inflict it on another? You would have to be no less than a monster.

>>17325404
>it would actually be a mark against the Jews, not for them, because it would mean they went from suffering such a thing to turning around and inflicting their own holocaust (or at least apartheid) on another people within living memory of it happening to them.
I've read enough court charge documents and counsellor's notes to know that it's a dreary, boring certainty that people terrorized with knives will start carrying knives, people threatened by fists will learn boxing, people under the gun will want an armory.

I think the way they have acted since the 40s is straight traumatized acting out. Like any brutalized kid, they've concluded that life is about power and right/wrong are for comfy people in safety.

Jannies are trannies

>>17317575
based kek
>>17318051
cringe

>>17316758
Chaucer and Cervantes were soldiers.

>>17316758
God, imagine the humiliation of being done in by this smug fuck of all people to get done in by.

Some scholars suspect that Dostoevsky killed another inmate in prison in self defense and wrote Crime and Punishment to help himself come to terms with it.

>>17316758
Many of the ancient Greeks were soldiers (technically all adult men were in most cities, but not all of them got to see actual war). Aeschylus for instance fought in Salamine, probably killed a few. Cervantes fought in Lepante and was wounded there (even said he was prouder of his wound than of his writings), he probably killed at least once. Dante became famous for his bravery in battle.
But the obvious answer is Kasczynski.

>>17323566
Correct, Hitler wasn't a person

>>17317278
This is retarded just from a logistical perspective. If the infantry didn't kill anyone or killed very little, and their only purpose was, as you say, "to die", why the hell would they use them? Why wouldn't they just battle it out with tanks and planes if the infantry were completely useless as you're trying to claim? You can't say it was because they didn't know at the time that the infantry were useless since armies still have infantry divisions today and infantry are still essential in modern warfare.
Yes it was hell to be an infantry soldier back then but to claim they were useless is fucking stupid.

>>17324763
Are elephants people bro?

>>17328251
>If the infantry didn't kill anyone or killed very little, and their only purpose was, as you say, "to die", why the hell would they use them?
If you were less aggressively retarded, I might have been inclined to answer that question.

>>17316774
What a fucking cunt. If they were in a trench they weren't hurting anyone and he comes along and fucking murders them. What an asshole. I didn't like Orwell before and I sure don't like him now.

>>17316758
Chances are if any writers served in the American Civil War, WWI, WWII or Vietnam they killed a bitch or two.

>>17318374
Seems like a nice lad but why the fuck was he so bloodthirsty?

>>17323849
>the masses
>ever in the right

>>17317505
Mystery Grove publishes a 1929 translation:
https://www.amazon.com/Storm-Steel-Original-1929-Translation/dp/1696237726

>>17318051
I built the internet you fucking foetus.

>>17328251
You wouldn't be able to comprehend the correct answer.

>>17316779
Allegedly his niece

>>17329221
Supposedly he had some guys from the Gestapo to do that so his hands were clean.

>>17328925
I mean it was literally the middle of a fucking war that's kind of what people do

>>17316774
Where did you hear this?

>>17324763
true, I did that essay in high school, was pretty good

>>17316919
Come on anon. Where does it say he has any confirmed kills?

>>17321195
Interesting take.

>>17328821
i like to think so

Served in the Crimean War and shot people with cannons.

>>17329350
I believe it's in Homage to Catalonia

>>17329534
It looks like it got her in the face, any more info on this webm?

Why did he do it bros?

>>17316774
Imagine for a moment Big Chad Dick Orwell telling his comrade amigos to hang back while he surveys the scene and he comes across two pendejos cuddling together in the warmth of each other and Georgie suddenly gets the lust of blood that only an unjust war can provide and grasping his belt he finds two shiny grenades and with a thunderous judging swinging throw he hurls those orbs of destruction into the trench pit while uttering the epitaph HASTA LA PASTA PUTAS and hears the screams of these shrieking fascist bastardos yelling POR FAVOR TEN PIEDAD DE MI!!! As Big Georgie enjoys the fiery blaze of his art as fascistas screech in agony his camaradas run up to inquire what happened but Orwell says nothing happened because capitalist pigs aren't people.

>>17316835
Who is this?

>>17330421
Lurk moar

>>17317038
>That smile. That damn smile

>>17328925
u mad

>>17328871
Cute, but this doesn't even warrant a response.

Plato
Descartes
Munenori Yagyu
Aurelius
Miyamoto Musashi
Xenophon
the author of the old testament

Writer was in combat
> OMG dude is so based he must’ve slaughtered so many enemies
> dude’s got ptsd it totally comes out in his writing and according to his biographers
Like 99.9% of your service time isn’t spent bored off your ass and surrounded by guys constantly talking/lying/imagining about what killing is like.

>>17328925
>"He Just comes along and fucking murders them"
That's kinda how war works sweetheart

>>17330330
Meanwhile in reality
Franco won, republicans were tortured, their women raped and bred with fascist babies, and finally anyone who aligned themselves with the commies suffered a terribly painful death.
FRANCO NUMBA ONE

>>17329117
When have they ever steered you wrong?

>>17317575
kek

>>17330330
I refuse to imagine this. Mostly due to the break of suspension of disbelief in picturing fucking Orwell as a Chad.

>Their life in Mexico was by all accounts an unhappy one.[21] Without heroin and suffering from Benzedrine abuse, Burroughs began to pursue other men as his libido returned, while Joan, feeling abandoned, started to drink heavily and mock Burroughs openly.[19] One night while drinking with friends at a party above the American-owned Bounty Bar in Mexico City,[22] a drunk Burroughs allegedly took his handgun from his travel bag and told his wife, "It's time for our William Tell act." There is no indication that they had performed such an action previously.[21] Vollmer, who was also drinking heavily and undergoing amphetamine withdrawal, allegedly obliged him by putting a highball glass on her head. Burroughs shot Vollmer in the head, killing her almost immediately.[23]

>>17329587
>shot people with cannons
lol what a hero

>>17321040
she fucking got away with them too

A lot of the Ancient Greek writers also served in their city's military, so they probably killed.

>>17331932
It was "my sweet summer child :)" tier

but it was on /lit/

>>17332515
Yeah Burroughs was unbelievably degenerate, I think one of his homo friends tried raping/molesting Burroughs' son at some point. Related to this, the "murder" is shown in the movie Naked Lunch (Cronenberg) which is a great film, Burroughs there working as an exterminator getting high on his own supply, hallucinations ensue

>>17332515
based

>>17333763
Being bisexual and having affairs means you're "unbelievably degenerate," ok. Back to pol, please

>>17330421
Oppenheimer the hedgehog.

>>17334279
he was a heroin junkie and a murderer as well as a fag, although he was based.

>>17316893
He killed GRRM by finishing his own work unlike fatty.

>>17334279
>Being bisexual and having affairs means you're "unbelievably degenerate,"
Yes.

>>17334279
He got drunk and shot his wife between the eyes playing william tell. He was an absolute degenerate.

>>17330421
Bill Wurroughs

>>17316758

Muhammad

>>17318334
Vonnegut himself mentions that he never even shot a dude.

>>17334279
Don't turn this into a lgbt thing, adulterers are the worst type of degenerates regardless and should be stoned to death.

>>17328251

>>17318956
based

>>17329587
Now that's a based if i ever seen one

>>17329013
>>17336443
No one

>>17336614
60 million at least

>>17336697
How many has starved under capitalism? More than 60 million.