/lit/ - Literature

>>17301992
Yes, though I'm almost at the age cutoff for most monastic orders.

yes, why do you ask

girls dont fuck me and im a neet, im basically the 21st century monk

>>17301992
I'm not a romanticism larper.

>>17301994
too young, too old?

>>17301992
Yes, but I wouldn’t take it up in just any religion.

who were the monks that bricked themselves up for life in tiny cells?

>>17301992
Can you join a monastery if you're jewish?

>>17302008
Too old (almost).

>>17302018
No. You need to be a spiritual seeker in that religion and religious denomination. It’s not a NEET daycare.

>>17301992
Of course, but I'm conscious of it being an escapism fantasy as well as conscious of the fact that the very reason I find it so appealing makes me unsuited to monastic life. Don't delude yourselves, anons.

>>17302024
I'm not a NEET, I'm just tired of my job and relationships, so I was wondering if Jews can convert to monastics (or at least lie about being Jewish), and if I can't accomplish that, maybe I'll just pull an Alexander Supertramp

>>17302024
untrue, they are neet daycares for their faiths

>>17301992
No I just want to live like a hobbit.

>>17302047
>I'm not a NEET, I'm just tired of my job and relationships

Read Isaac Bashevis Singer, The Penitent. You may find some wisdom in there.

That said, converts are potentially welcome in monasteries. But it's *not* a racket, or something you want to work a racket on. Along these lines, read Thomas Merton, The Seven-Storey Mountain.

>>17302047
You can convert and you can join a monastic order but the conversion has to take place first and if it’s fake, it will be quite obvious and you’ll probably be unable to join the order. However, it’s important to note that in Christianity, much of how we come to know God, is experiential. It’s not inherently wrong for a non-belieber to join the Church and participate in religious ritual and sacraments. In fact, it’s almost encouraged since it’s possible that through participation, they come to know God and become believers. This is why we have a distinction between theology and scripture and then body of the Church. At one point the Church was essentially mandatory.

>>17302071
Monastic life is not easy. I have relatives in it. If you think it is, you’re just mistaken.

>>17301992
At times yes, but then I remember I'm allergic to religion, so I just suck it up and continue with life as usual.

>>17302094
the place that service and experience had in dionysius areopagita's writings fascinated me. Him allegorizing so much of scripture yet still being an important figure in the (I think mainly orthodox church) is interesting.

>Monastic life is not easy. I have relatives in it. If you think it is, you’re just mistaken.
I can believe this but have a hard time picturing what would be some of the hardships a monk faces.

>>17302177
Yes, but he’s a figure that’s debated a bit. I will say that if you’re interested in the sort of ritualistic and experiential aspect of Christianity, you’re right to look mainly at Catholicism and Orthodoxy and the older the better. This is one of the many reasons we maintain the importance of the body of the Church unlike Protestants.

>have a hard time picturing what would be some of the hardships a monk faces
Imagine living on a small homesteading commune but with an intellectual bend. Not only do you have daily chores, work, labor to do but you also have daily intellectual activities like study, writing, etc. to do. It’s more regimented than people believe. Furthermore, people truly underestimate that when you enter a monastic order, you really are signing up to be a spiritual soldier and in many ways you’re signing up to participate in spiritual warfare. That last bit is harder to convey in a place like this but is most certainly true.

>>17301992
yes but I have not faith

>>17301992
Yes, but a long time ago. Mainly to check it out, and probably learn things that would have done me some good. Nowadays? No.

yes. i have spent few months in one. next month im leaving to another monastery to live as a novice.

>>17302210
I would love to visit mount athos and converse if possible with some of the brothers there.

>>17302307
Anyone can visit Athos as far as I know and someone will show you around, pray with you, etc.

>>17301992
I don't believe in a god at all, but I might consider monasticism if I did.

>>17302307
>>17302320
w*men are still banned, yes?

>>17302408
hope so

>>17302431
>man dies happy

>>17301992
It crossed my mind once or twice

>>17301992
Once or twice. But not very seriously.

Recommend books about monks written after 1900 pl0x. Any religion will suffice.

>>17302035
>the very reason I find it so appealing makes me unsuited to monastic life
What do you mean?

>>17301992
I'm considering it, but the tradition that interests me (thai forest) doesn't have monasteries in my country, so I'm not sure how ordaining happens when you're not a citizen of the country where the monastery is located.

>>17301992
I have thought about it many times, but I have this feeling that post Second Vatican Council the church has degraded way too much for me to find the kind of life I would want.
It's not that it's bad for the church to be closer to the believers, but every single priest I have met I found to be either uncultured, too politically invested, or simply inadequate tfor someone taht is supposedly trying to live a spiritual life in full honesty.

>>17301992
seems like a good alternative to being homeless though i'm not sure if there are some specific requirements to become one

>>17302431
Some Catholic monasteries in the US house nuns but they’re separate from the actual monastic order and not the same thing. It’s just in the general vicinity. Monasteries such as Athos don’t allow women.

>>17302024
>It’s not a NEET daycare.
why not? I'm sure that Jesus said something like "and the neets shall inherit the earth"

>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5Dhj70awpU
kino

>>17302579
Have you visited or considered visiting any monasteries? I agree with what you said about priests, but observing the specific environments you're interested in might bring better insight

>>17301992
I don't know about monastic life, but I dream of hermit life now and then.

I fantasize about becoming a Buddhist monk and becoming a kung-fu master

>>17302527
wounded by love

>>17301992
yes

>>17301992
My religion doesn't have monastic orders and I don't feel like joining other religions or living with other people in their monasteries anyway. But have I considered living as some kind of hermit in the place of the monk? Yes.

>>17302721
Hermit life is kind of fantastical escapism though. People think that’s a somewhat natural way to live and it’s really not. Maybe what you crave is something identity with hermit life and not the actual hermit life itself?

Yeah and then eventually burn down the temple

>>17301992
I've talked with catholic monks, and if I had the slightest belief in religion I would convert and go without hesitation. No responsibilities, all your life is centered around wholesome useful work, learning, and dedication to your faith. These people have no doubts, they trust their duties, their community, and their god. They seem at peace, in tune with the world.
Is prison really that bad? It looks like NEETing with free food and social interactions

>>17302022

What's the limit?

>>17302527
Columba Marmion, Christ the Life of the Monk.

>>17302819
i've never met a single man that hasn't considered the thought of retreating into a hermit life. it's kind of funny in a way.

>>17301994
What is the cutoff? I'm 25.

>>17301992
No, I couldn't function in a commune. I have however considered becomming an hermit and think I could pull it off.

Can't you just become a covid hermit and stay home reading all day? Why go through a formal monastic order?

>>17302014
Anchorites?

>>17303552
Solitude is nice, unless you're a big extrovert I guess.

>>17302210
do monks fight demons anon?

>>17302527
name of the rose.

>>17304061
KEK yes, anon. They make parties with the knight templars to raid nests of demons.

>>17303592
Because you're more likely to fall into degeneracy as a lone monk. Benedict mentions this in his Rule.

Im diskletic so i meght inpreret your question wroeng but yes, i have in fact conidered taking someboids life

>>17304061
Yes, they do.

>>17303586
It’s like mid-40s in most monasteries but it varies.

>>17302527
Seven Storey Mountain

>>17301992
Looking into it right now, actually. Reading Story of a Soul, The Seven Storey Mountain and St Benedict's Rule made big impressions on me.

>>17302928
I'd unironically consider prison if reading options weren't so limited, at least from what I understand, and food wasn't so low quality.

>>17303592
Degeneracy. Especially if you're currently struggling with vices. Fellow brothers keep you in check.

>>17303601
Thanks anon, that is them.

>>17304894
The kn*ghts t*mplar are a demonic order

>>17301992
Nope.

always have a laugh when internet addicts like 4channers talk about asceticism

>>17306292
>nooo!!! sick people aren't allowed to discuss possible cures!!!
That's you. And you're retarded.

>>17302431
>82 years
>not even knowing what a roastie looks or sounds like
Must have been wonderful

>>17306292
> you can’t talk about asceticism unless you’re already an ascetic

>>17303592
I've been living the covid hermit life for 8 months now. It's been rough, but I've managed to lose weight, read more and stop drinking. Having a community and a structured life around me would have helped me a lot with my struggles.

>>17306292
Asceticism is the healthier version of being a NEET

>>17306700
>asceticism
>healthy

>>17302006
This

>>17307074
I was speaking in relative terms. It's clearly healthier to renounce things instead of seething about other people having them.

I have, but I don't think I could possibly do it. The monk's way is the path of emotion, as Gurdjieff framed it, and I can't imagine doing lectio divina, unceasing Jesus Prayer, and most terrifying of all, complete submission to a spiritual father would ever work for me, a combination of cynicism and fear that the whole thing just leads to delusion would do me in.

Fuck, I'm one of those lukewarm ones that will get spat out on Judgement Day aren't I?

>>17301992
I'm not mentally strong enough for that shit

>>17302537
Not him, but I imagine it's because being unable to cope with the world (i. e. being drawn to escapism) means one is not ready for the spiritual life. Check out Idries Shah's Learning How to Learn for a scary primer on all the very many pitfalls seekers of higher truths face.

>>17307111
To me, monasticism is just a refinement of spirituality; the etymology of ascetic refers to exercise, to athleticism IIRC. You can be spiritual even in the world abroad, carrying your small monasticism with you.

Are you one of the lukewarm ones? Faith comes from God; pray for faith, in earnest. But above all, don't be afraid to be doubtful. Acknowledge it and defeat it, if you are able. If not, let it rankle until it starves or you. Of course, I am of the type that would continue with Christ even if he were to be shown untrue, so my faith reaches even into the absurd.

That is, if you even want to make a change. In the end, you will be forced to. Many will disagree with you, and you will constantly find yourself between two opposing positions, hated by either, so you will either hold fast or grow apart from your faith, depending on your nature. But never expect failure, and never grow fearful of the future, preferring to die early that you may yet retain some faith. There is only forward or above.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QF0bRTI1oA

>>17302092
I recognized that name. I looked him up, apparently he wrote a children's book that my grandmother used to read to me as a child, didn't realize he also wrote novels, I'll have to check that out.
I know that monasticism isn't going to be 'fun' but that sort of lifestyle interests me, it's better than this modern world.

>>17307111
God has different purposes for each soul. But it is true that the virtues that constitute in the life of a monk, specially the ones of chastity, poverty and obedience, are in abstract the most safe pathway to salvation. I doubt there can be salvation without those.

>>17302527
Everyday Saints by Archimandite Tikhon.
It's a series of anecdotes about life in Orthodox Christian monasteries in Russia during and after Soviet rule and it's incredibly comfy, you'll want another volume after you finish it.

>>17302579
That's one of the great dilemmas: how does one ever know if a given tradition is live? If a given person is the real thing or a charlatan or deluded fool?

wouldnt mind being a Tibetan monk in the Rongbuk monastery waking up to this view every day

Monasticism and seclusion are appealing to us because they solve most of the same problems as suicide, but are not as final or difficult. A few probably are mature enough to make that decision, but for most (myself included) we should channel this desire into understanding what grates on us about our living circumstances, and only after we fully grasp what's going on to act on it. The irony is that drastic moves like this are somehow easier to take than the small steps in our life that lift us out of the hell we've wound up in. For most of us, we're not giving our all against these problems, because they're very strong and we're weak. But if you're not willing to put in the effort, nothing will change. Even in a monastery or in the forest, you would be unhappy too. This isn't saying seclusion is a bad idea, but that for most of us, it's not the genuine answer to our problems.

>>17303592
I don’t think one is truly a hermit if they have internet access

>>17307178
Of course, monasticism isn't at all for everyone. It's just that some make of it their elixir, the remedy to all of their problems; the same could be said of getting a well-paying job (that covers far more than your necessities), or getting the woman of your dreams, or joining the army, or what have you. Don't be afraid to experiment in life, but be more cautious when great things are at stake

>>17301992
In answering yes, I know that I sound like a larper. I have considered it. Although I have faith, I understand that someone such as myself could never find the discipline to live a life of prayer and strict obedience.

>>17301994
There is no age cut off.

>>17307147
great post

>>17307147
See that's what I mean about delusion. You sound like me around a year ago (guessing we both read Dostoevsky and You Must Change Your Life), but Idries Shah explicitly describes as a common mistake for seekers to believe experiencing certain emotions is a spiritual attainment. I realized that whatever love I felt for creation, and whatever certainty of life beyond death, is not an endpoint. I'm not living like Jesus, happy thoughts are not the goal. Edgy as it may sound, emotions are strictly of this world, able to be flipped on and off by the correct chemicals. They can be a path to eternity, if Gurdjieff is right (and if he's wrong Christendom writ large is a cult), but experiencing certain emotional highs is not the end.

>>17302710
I have never actually visited a monastery and have never met a monk, but almost every impression of priests I have gotten have been on the negative side.
Naybe monks are different, but I'm not sure it's possible to just come by and visit them.
>>17307161
Well, I think it's fairly easy to see the through the charlatans given enough time. My problem is that I have never found anyone who I would consider to be what I'm looking for, so I'm not even sure if it's possible.
Every time I see this stories about Tibetan teachers having orgies or pedophilia in the church or whatever it makes me feel more alone and less trusting of institutionalised religion, even if I'm still a Christian.

>>17303552
Oh there are others too? That comforting I thought there was something very wrong with me

bump

You guys are pathetic. I feel bad for all the monks dealing with the vast swathes of millennial fuckups wanting to become monks because "bawwwww".

>>17309653
project harder

>>17301992
I spent a few days at an Abbey in Worth, England - and it was the comfiest experience ever.

>>17301992
As a possible cure for insomnia, yeah. For enlightenment, no.

>>17310141
>For enlightenment, no.
That's the whole point

>>17302431
God I wish that were me

How do you deal with being horny in a monastery? Serious question

>>17307381
I didn't read either; Dostoevsky I read two-three years ago but didn't truly take to heart. Of course, you have a point; the ex-Christian in "Which Way Western Man?" flaunted his emotional experiences as being signs of a true spirituality only to show that "he truly was a Christian monk and could be turned back." Of course, it was all shadow boxing and delusion, and he fell to the weakest enemy.

>>17309653
They're patient, anon.

I wish I had the resources and ability to start a right wing commune, completely off the grid and self sufficient.

All the time but then again I believe I have the spirit of an artist,I need to create and express myself,as much as I adore silence,simplicity and meditation I consider them outlets to swirl creativity not a way of life...

Going to a monastery means surrendering everything you have, even your own will, and live only for God. It’s not daycare for neets, it’s a hard life and you cannot join unless you have strong faith, hope and charity.

>>17310381
>live only for God
That's only for Christian monasteries.

>>17310215
I'm sure they just wank in their rooms at night.

>>17306513
>stop drinking
Congrats Anon. You did a great thing for yourself. I wish you luck and success.

>>17310397
They don’t, stop projecting coomer.

im still confused over whether i should be an orthodox or catholic. The main thing getting in my way is Mary Worship -- I know, I know "it's reverence not worship" but straight up people do worship Mary even if it's not a church position and the church doesn't really stop it.

I've been to pic related
Very curious place, anything from your average pious old man who thought he had enough of the world to heart surgeons
Surprisingly enough it also passed the racial diversity test, I've found (admittedly in other monasteries in Athos) monks from the Americas, Nigeria and even a monk named Prodromos (whose worldly name was Pekka)
I don't think most people realize how demanding the lifestyle is though
You wake up at 3-4 am every day, eat very humble (but admittedly tasty meals) and work your ass off for the rest of the day
Whether it be animal herding, agriculture (things have gotten much easier in certain monasteries which have geologists in them) or even arts and crafts
You also have to be very obedient to your spiritual mentor
While it's not a life of long term stresses (besides achieving the kingdom of God), it's certainly a very physically demanding one

>>17302006
>girls dont fuck me and im a neet, im basically the 21st century monk
Except real monks are celibate and dont jerk off to anime, and between prayer and study they usually work.

>>17307219
There is, for many monastic orders.

>>17310215
gay orgies

>>17310521
Orthodox for Theosis

>>17302527
A Canticle for Leibowitz

>>17301992

Yes tried it but their actual, daily life amounts to the serfdom of the self. We tend to underestimate how much time is spent by monks in manual excruciating labor, very little of it is actually introspective/meditative, or rather, you'll be meditating through hours of brutalizing your body in work. It also involves literal discipline through hierarchy and you'll be expelled very easily for slacking in most cases.

It was otherwise very fulfilling in the sense of making you feel incredibly well. I can't properly describe how much of an improvement it is to your mental health to live (i.e work your fucking ass off harder than ever) at a monastery. But ultimately I chose to leave of my own accord to pursue academic interests (I am a physicist) and live a little less fulfilling life of writing papers and browsing chan/playing video games/reading books. Assuming you are willing to strain your body, it's a pretty good life of having your conscience weight less than a feather in a good sense.

>>17310521
>The main thing getting in my way is Mary Worship
Why is the choice between Orthodox and Catholicism if that is what's bothering you. Either Jesus instituted an earthly Church with Peter acting as the head or he didn't. Both churches revere Mary, by the way.

>>17301992
Yes but only as a Buddhist monk, not Christian.

>>17310677
The problem is finding a legit monastery, unless you're willing to go to Asia

Doing a 6mth residency at a Rinzai Zen monastery in America rn AMA

>>17311003
Why do they let you shitpost?
Also how did you find a good monastery (>>17310827)

>>17311012
Because he is not in a legit monastery.

>>17302277
Godspeed anon

>>17301992
I've thought about it but I don't have the discipline for it.

>>17308174
>Naybe monks are different, but I'm not sure it's possible to just come by and visit them.

Some monasteries have arrangements that let people come for a spiritual retreat.

>>17311012
>>17311040
We have internet we’re just not supposed to use it...

And I found it on google there’s like maybe five rinzai monasteries in the US it’s not hard

>>17311590
Why Rinzai and not Soto?

>>17310481
Not him but how do I stop being a coomer, seriously?
>just don't jack off
Yeah okay but this makes things worse because I'll have sex on my mind 24/7 if I don't jack off for more than a week. So it'll make me unable to focus on anything else, at which point I just say fuck it and relapse
I just want to stop being influenced by my sex drive so much, how the fuck do monks do it?

>>17311945
You have to ask God with faith and humility, there is no other way, you can’t do it without God.

>>17312021
Yeah I tried that stuff, not for me. Looking for something else

>>17312021
>dude you have to ask jesus to help you stop touching your cock, there's no other way
kek
Also buddhist monks don't need god's help to kill their sex drive, you're full of shit

wish i could spend time in a monastery as a lay disciple
just make friends and shit

>>17305063
In the Orthodox tradition they can take you as a widow/widower.

>>17306126
Often times it's the breeding ground for more intricate vices of the soul. The monastic life is harder, less lenient in many ways. When having sex is not a possibility the desire to have sex is just as much of a sin. Same goes for any sin.

>>17302018
Kys kike rat

Some of you may find this of interest. It's a film about a man decided, rather late in life and in unusual circumstances, to become a monk. It's called Brother Orchid.

https://ok.ru/video/267820534435

>>17301992
do they have good healthcare?

>>17302431
>Neither had he beheld an automobile or a movie
What a blessed man

>>17301992
Every day I lose more desires and there are only two people in my family left. I have no attachment to society anymore and no interest in any kind of career.

I am considering joining a buddhist monastic order. I wish it wasn't so rare. There is also, to me, an annoying amount of 'elite' buddhist practitioners and people writing books or doing it for school - that turns me off of the people practicing. There are also a ton of old jewish californians in the religon lol. yikes.

Who wants to start a new Doomer order with me?

>>17302047
>sequester yourself and write obscurantist pantheist tracts, pretend you're selfless for living off the work of proles

>>17311945
IMO, have sex. With a dedicated partner. Then at least you’re building something from the experience.

>>17301992
considered a yeshiva (close enough) but I must do science and shit, limitations on human lifespan kinda force choosing one or the other.

>>17315223
pretty much live like a monk though so, ehh...

If a monastery is actually self-sufficient and self-contained like in the good ol’ days...then I’d go because otherwise I’d feel like I’m LARPing

>>17314352
Assuming you're American, why not just move to Alaska and live in the wilderness?

i would but i'm not gay

>>17314352
There are two forest sangha monasteries in California

>>17314474
Fuck that, too much effort. I'm a huge autist and have absolutely no interest in busting my ass to find a woman, let alone keep her around. I had sex once, it was enough

When I was a boy I wanted to be a nun.

I think the idea of living in deep community based off manual labor and shared spiritual practices is a deep, innate, desire we all have within us. It's really how we're meant to live.

>>17301992
No, but only because I want to have a family. If I didn't care about that, it's something I would consider

>>17301992
It is part of why I am studying Chinese at university right now, I am interested in being a Zen monk in Taiwan

>>17314352
>Who wants to start a new Doomer order with me?
im in

>>17302277
Is it an orthodox one? Godspeed anyways. Where are you from? Greece?

every day i think of joining the french foreign legion but my eyes are most likely too fucked and i fear ssri withdrawl.

>>17317233
The FFL is more selective than it used to be. It's not a refuge for foreign misfits anymore, at least not to the same extent.
Also, the training is really hard. Probably not SOF-tier, but still.

Not really monastic life, but I've been reading about solitude and isolation and like to recommend a couple of books.

pic related is very well written and researched. "This study challenges the widely-held view that success in personal relationships is the only key to happiness." Storr highlights various creative geniuses who have thrived living in solitude and argues that being able to be alone with yourself is a sign of maturity.

easily available on libgen

>>17317554
Pic related is pretty good. A bit melodramatic at times. But still good.
Mailtand talks about her conversion from Church of England to Catholicism and how she moved from London to an isolated cottage in south-west scotland to live a life of quiet contemplation and prayer.

>>17317576
>fantastic documentary easily available on youtube.

comfy and respectful doc about the zen hermit monks of china. Their beliefs, history and way of life

>>17317603
linked to this, bill Porter has written a couple of decent books about chinese zen hermits. I particularly enjoyed his first one (pic related) which recounts his expedition to china in the late 80's to find out if the hermits still existed or if they were wiped out by the cultural revolution

>>17302527
Notes form underground

>>17317671
>not about a monk
>written before 1900

>>17302527
Karen Armstrong's biographical books are well written and insightful. Through the Narrow Gate and the Spiral Staircase cover her life from deciding to become a nun at 17, joining a convent in the 60's, it all goes wrong and then she leaves and struggles to rebuild herself spiritually.

I've considered it, I just don't think I'm cut out for it though.

>>17317777
Sacred digits confirm we are all too weak to live by our principles

>>17301992
They don’t just take anyone, it’s not like the movie Sister Act. You have to be debt free, among other things.

>>17317777
checked, its fate anon

>>17317777
most chantards aren't

Nope lol

test

>>17304061
Yes, but everyone is supposed to even you.

>>17317999
checked

40 monastic life Kino.
https://mubi.com/lists/life-in-the-monastery

>>17301992
You know a monk is the churches containment proffesion for pedophiles right?

>>17302006
Kek

>>17317777
>>17317999
Sacred thread

>>17316547
this

>>17317554
>>17317576
>>17317603
>>17317662
thanks

>>17316136
Am Canadian. I may live in the wilderness , but don't want to be Into the Wilded

>>17316459
nice thank you for mentioning it. They are forest Thai tradition will check out.

>>17317096
wait 5-10 years if you hear of a doomer tradition it'll be me lol