/lit/ - Literature

>>17285287
Maistre, Schmitt, Baudrillard, Hobbes, Schopenhauer

>>17285309
Why schop?

>>17285287
The vast majority of people are drones, which is really blackpilling to think about. It hurts to know that your family members, maybe even your friends (if you have any) are non-sentient scripts playing out. I don't say this to be haughty at all; I wish I were like them. There's no comfort in my position. I can't connect with other people in the same ways that everyone around me can. I've never been able to connect. In the end I'm lonely with the truth, which doesn't feel better than the blissful ignorance enjoyed by nearly everybody else. It's a cliche answer but 1984 is the first thing that jumps to mind, especially Parsons.

>>17285339
His writings on rhetoric, the human condition, women, the brute, wisdom, etc.

>>17285382

>>17285348
Narcissism

>>17285287
Sapiens, Homo Deus, To Kill a Mockingbird, The Grapes of Wrath, The Shock Doctrine, The Diary of Anne Frank, The Capital, Capital (Thomas Piketty)

>>17285348
>It hurts to know that your family members, maybe even your friends (if you have any) are non-sentient scripts playing out.
It hurts to think that some people actually believe this.
It's like the edgy atheist teenagers of the 2000s but with none of the euphoria.

>>17286728
>lol ur such an edgy fag
then prove him wrong

>>17285390
he just said he doesnt connect with them. literal automaton replies that convince me further that he's right.

>>17285390
>>17286728
>>17286790
Yea I get how what I said sounds whiny and pretentious
>whaaa nobody gets me I'm so unique
but that wasn't my intent. I'm not happy with my situation. I don't have any friends because I can't connect with people. Beyond my immediate family members, whom I've known for my entire life and am therefore relatively comfortable with them, I have nobody. It's a serious handicap. There have been dozens of times in my life when people have reached out to me in a friendly manner, but I almost felt (and still feel) repulsed by them. I don't see them as people due to how they talk and act. I could always see though them, like they wanted something from me. I understand that I probably have undiagnosed turbo autism or something, but that doesn't really change the fact that I feel like I'm literally surrounded by programmed NPCs.

>>17285287
read Notes from the Underground and talk to a normie about it - when you realise that they either totally missed the point or thought that the narrator was insane, you will understand them.

>>17286884
By the way, this particularly applies to women.

>>17286888
I've seen lots of women talking about this book. Grim indeed.

>>17286764
>prove him wrong
He has to prove himself right first, Redditor.

>>17285348

>>17286931
I wasn't intending to make a universal claim. All I'm saying is that TO ME it FEELS like other people are scripted. I can't "prove" this.

>>17286939
The principle can actually be demonstrated when you speak to people and attempt to find out how they came to their beliefs.

>>17285287
Why would you want to understand them? I mean, you're already so much better and smarter than they are.

I've considered reading the top 10 or so bestsellers every year to get a better sense of what NPCs are thinking, but then I realized that most of them probably don't read.
Anyway start with Games People Play OP

>>17286939
The vast majority of people don't have this thought, case in point - it was made by a neurotic powernerd webcomic maker, not by some regular 100 IQ dead average person

>>17285309
>>17285339

“No difference of rank, position, or birth is so great as the gulf that spearates the countless millions who use their head only in the service of their belly, in other words, look upon it as an instrument of the will, and those very few and rare persons who have the courage to say: No! It is too good for that; my head shall be active only in its own service; it shall try to comprehend the wondrous and varied spectacle of this world, and then reproduce it in some form, whether as art or as literature, that may answer to my character as an individual. These are the truly noble, the real noblesse of the world. The others are serfs and go with the soil. Of course, I am here referring to those who have not only the courage, but also the call, and therfore the right, to order the head to quit the service of the will; with a result that proves the sacrifice to have been worth the making. In the case of those to whom all this can only partially apply, the gulf is not so wide; but even though their talent be small, so long as it is real, there will always be a sharp line of demarcation between them and the millions.”

>>17285287
Harry Potter, The Hunger Games, To Kill a Mockingbird

>>17286997
Because non-autists are like 99% of the population and you have to deal with them on a daily basis nearly every single day. I don't understand the amount of assmad ITT.

>>17285348
<= 17 years old

>>17285287
A regular Psychology textbook, anon. Then proceed to articles in whatever aspect you feel like looking at.

>>17285348
>I wish I were like them
you are exactly like them, we have all gone through the same emotions and teenage angst

>>17285348
This

It's truly over, people just want to watch netflix, there's no communication with them

I think the midwit parable can be easily explained if you take away genetic factors, and assume the lowest point of the curve is satisfied with no education, the middle of the point, everyone you notice, on 4chan, in real life, they are trapped by ego and fear of failure, and at the highest point, they are capable of stomaching being wrong, seeking understanding at all points, and don't let their ego/mind interrupt them when seeking knowledge. this isn't conclusive, because there are people i wasn't thinking about, other than not myself

>>17286943
>All I'm saying is that TO ME it FEELS like other people are scripted. I can't "prove" this.
They feel scripted because you haven't penetrated into their inner worlds. If someone looked at only your superficial habits, they'd probably think you were scripted too.

>oh, this npc just browses 4chan for 8 hours a day and jerks off to porn for the remaining 4.

>>17285309
>>17285339
>>17285348
>>17285372
>>17285382
>>17286790
>>17286864
>>17286884
>>17286888
>>17286921
>>17286943
>>17287008
>>17287016
>>17287020
>>17287027
>>17287053
SOVL
>>17285390
>>17286728
>>17286931
>>17286939
>>17286990
>>17286997
>>17287028
>>17287052
NO SOVL

>>17286931
Prove what? That humans are capable of feeling and thoughts? That being a "normie" (that is to say behave accordingly to convention, I wonder why a specimen of a social species would do that) doesn't entail being a robot? That you being unable to picture they feelings doesn't mean they don't have any?

Most people figure that out by age 6 anon. And almost any writer or thinker you could think of assumes it as well, so by your standard the entirety of the Western literary tradition was written by redditors.

Anon's post perfectly embodies the snowflake teenager mentality (hate using the word snowflake in that sense but it's really fitting here), so calling him an edgy teenager here is a not a slur, it's an apt comparison if not an exact description.

On the other hand, if anon has anything close to a working description of the algorithms used by the "automatons" I'm curious to see it (protip: he hasn't, because his stance is peak intellectual laziness).

>OOOH MA GAD YOUR JUST A EDGY TEENAGER OF COOOURSE WE HAVE SOULS WHY WOULDNT WE

>>17287016
I've heard statements to the same effect uttered by over 50% of my highschool classmates, and I didn't attend a particularly prestigious one.

>>17286990
How did you come to your beliefs anon?

>>17285309
Fpbp
Besides this, just consoom popular media. Rap, Netflix, use social media, use reddit, watch sports, etc. Then you have something to talk about.

>>17287088
>On the other hand, if anon has anything close to a working description of the algorithms used by the "automatons" I'm curious to see it (protip: he hasn't, because his stance is peak intellectual laziness).
The simplest example would be the commonness of certain trends that seek to establish both rebelliousness from perceived norms and indicate membership within the perceived "out" group, which is really just the in group. This is, perhaps unsurprisingly, most commonly seen among women. Especially young white women.

>>17286864
>I don't have any friends because I can't connect with people.
So where do you get your opinion that everyone is an NPC? Do you just sit in school and watch people or browse social media all day? Do you say more than 2 lines when speaking to someone?

>>17287144
Adventure is code for "sex" here. It's a pretty blatant convention, like the Victorian saying "undescribables" instead of "pants".

>The simplest example would be the commonness of certain trends that seek to establish both rebelliousness from perceived norms and indicate membership within the perceived "out" group
So, signalling group membership using common group signals is an indication of algorithmic programming? How do you signal group membership without common signs?

>>17287144
You realize it's player characters that go on adventures and NPCs that just muddle about towns?

>>17287144
Jesus. They think about adventures more than Alexandre Dumas. Must be really exciting

>>17285348
>posting some Marvel gif
But Anon, you are the NPC.

>>17286864
>I'm not happy with my situation. I don't have any friends because I can't connect with people
I see. That can just be awkwardness, or it can be more serious. Try to talk about it with someone older and outside your family circle, like a teacher, a psychiatrist, etc.

If you can even talk about it with your parents (but it's often hard and you going to a stranger first is often easier and a good first step).

> I don't see them as people due to how they talk and act.
There's your problem, assume it's all a front every puts up out of fear and that their real self is accessible if you take the time to speak to people one on one and not just about the weather. Easier said than done, but a good start is to create occasions to talk with people (lunch is a good one).

> I understand that I probably have undiagnosed turbo autism
Possibly, might be worth consulting someone who can diagnose you (but remember diagnosis is just an instrument to living a better life).

>>17287082
>t. Anubis

>>17287157
I had my suspicions in high school, but university was when I really realized that something was wrong with me. I don't have a well laid out theory or manifesto or anything like that, but listening to people around me speak. The way that the spoke, what they spoke about. It's not something I think I can put into words.
>Do you say more than 2 lines when speaking to someone?
Yes I had a job in a restaurant and went to a few parties at the behest of people I'd met in classes. I had multi-month "friendships" with over a dozen people. I wasn't the kind to ruminate in the corner, making bold assumptions without actually talking to people.
>>17287170
>So, signalling group membership using common group signals is an indication of algorithmic programming? How do you signal group membership without common signs?
This isn't something I think I can articulate very well, but here are a few common examples that I noticed:
>social media photos of them holding a sign at a march for some vague social cause (I haven't had social media for a few years now, but I imagine these kinds of people were the ones posting black squares on their social media accounts not too long ago)
>"Hey Anon, you should listen to the call her daddy podcast"

>>17285348
I think that is the current social condition in the US. I have worked and live there for a while and a lot of Americans appear like automatons. I do not quite understand why, but I assume capitalism eventually shapes you into one.
Funnily enough, when I talk with people who emigrated to the US after their teens they absolutely echo this sentiment. So it is not an isolated experience.

>>17287264
As an American who's been abroad and currently trying to expatriate, please get me the fuck out of here. I used to think mental health was a joke until I developed panic attacks upon returning. Americans are so loud, fat, and selfish that just existing here feels profoundly wrong.

OP, I felt the same way but couldn't articulate what it was until I went to a country with naturally derived culture and cooperation. If you're a burger, gtfo ASAP and go LARP as a chad somewhere nobody knows your face. I think it will do wonders for you

>>17287494
I'm a Leaf, but I bet most of the country is the same way. Cities in general have a propensity for loud, fat, inconsiderate, incorrigible people.

>>17287494

Weeb alert

>>17287105
this

>>17287105
yaggsbarro

>>17285348
It's telling that the default NPC response is to call you a teenager. Proving you further correct.

>>17285287
Unironically White Fragility. Reading it now. I was describing it to my girlfriend who actually has normie friends and she exploded into a rapture of "that's why they're saying all this shit!"

>>17286939
Everyone knows they are sheep, but they don't which sheppard they are following.

>>17288714
Can you elaborate?

>>17289044
I brought up how the book's definition of racism requires institutional power and she said that immediately explained why she was seeing all these posts about racism that made no sense to her.
As I said I'm still reading the book but the biggest idea so far is just that meme picture where the guy says "let me just change some definitions and now you're racist"
The normie explanation comes from realizing that this is what it takes to reach a normie audience.
>obviously embellished anecdotes
>self-contradicting emotional appeals
>assertions of states of reality with no concrete examples or statistics
And most of all
>verbal ofuscation through inflated language and sentence structure
Possibly one of the most racist books I've read, and not only from its treatment of white people, but how it portrays the black struggle in America today.
Black people are struggling, and it can be attributed to concrete issues, like living with lead paint for decades (lead poisoning causes lower IQ and violent behavior, and a vast majority of lead poisoning cases have been for black people in the last 10 years), not because some office in a Chicago suburb isn't diverse enough. Diversity is a symptom, not a cause.

>>17285287
How does this thread not have Stoner? Quintessential book about a man who never questions the path of the life he is going down, and never has any ironic self-awareness.

>>17285348
If that was true, then you would be successful but you are a loser.

>>17287031
Any specific textbooks that are good?

>>17287031
>(((Psychology textbook)))
You will learn a lot more about human nature just by reading classics and studying history and generate a far deeper insight from that then from any modern psychology (((study))).
Tolstoy has plenty of descriptions of common folk in his stories and they are not condescending either.

Any self improvement book. The Bible too, but self improvement books would be more time efficient.

>>17287052
This NPC is upset

>>17289697
>the Bible
this
especially the book of proverbs

>>17289697
Tribal Leadership is a good self help book that explains the motivation levers in normies

>>17285287
What's not to understand about them. They live life on autopilot, they never find out who they actually are, they aren't truly alive there are you happy now you understand normies congrats champ

>>17287205
Decently solid advice. Listen to this anon, >>17285348

>>17285287

>>17290027
so what's this pink guy's end game?

>>17285348
>are non-sentient scripts playing out.
they're not though. they're still retarded it's just a lot more complicated and contextual than that. human beings aren't as you describe and they are human beings.

>>17290093
A lot of them do tend to react in a simple script-like way to things though, "oh this is widely considered to be [thing] so it is [thing]", they don't think about anything in a wider perspective, they take the cultural narrative and run with it for everything. They are sentient but narrow minded, they take lazy mental shortcuts. But I used to be the same way, it was only after a long period of introspection I realized what I was doing.

>>17290136
we're all narrow-minded, we just think that the dumb algorithms we use are special and mysterious because we can't see them
im guessing this post warrants a fedora reply or something but whatever

>>17287105
These are moving into Picasso territory.

>>17287172
Really more a game of roller-coaster tycoon.

>don't put any effort into being social or having social skills
>bros why are people programmed like NPCs? It's not even worth my time talking to them, honestly it's a chore.
no shit you're going to feel like everyone is shallow and repetitive

>>17285287
your favorite book

>>17286990
this >>17287115
for starters there is no truthful, absolute basis one finds independently of what has been imparted upon you already, and there's no good substitute to be found in what has been imparted either. past a certain point you're just attacking another's aesthetics and placing your own above theirs, and trying to break them down to a weak, unstable and confused state. so you can say you know and they don't know, and demand that they feel uncertain while you feel more certain. neither can feel truly certain, like they've found the bottom of mind much less reality, but if they feel wholly, dysfunctionally uncertain then you at least are above that. that is just ill will and resentment. imo there is something to the immediacy and certainty of so-called NPCs that we are missing but i'm not sure. you probably have an inkling of it if you're content with this story you've told, you just can't identify with them because they're embarrassing and silly.

>>17290136
i think that's the social conditions we have. if you see the way modern society is structured, it tends towards that. we've gotten to a very simplified, convenient way of seeing the world. something to do with homogeneity too, i think, if you see how intolerant many are of even slightly nonstandard ways of speaking or writing or minor cultural differences (rather not comprehending the fact that surface-level culture isn't the same everywhere and fixed). the need for a system and standard whole leads to it despite that way of thinking being from an intellectual origin, an origin of thinking about things and making the unsystematic systematic. there's not enough different ways of thinking to keep the variety needed to put things into perspective and allow for more new ideas and patterns to spread and synthesise.

none of this is inborn, unsentient though so hopelessness and muddying the waters with haughtiness and impatience doesn't make sense. people are sensitive to it and you polarise them deeper into their ignorance. we know this, so doing it implies lying to yourself about your motives. cultivate 'putting into perspective' and diverse patterns in those around you. you can't change the world obviously but your world is mostly your small social group so.

>>17290262
also, modernworldwise, centralisation and media is the problem. and bourgeois lifestyle. it would also be better to have more languages so different bubbles can form. kind of like protectionism so unique ideas within individual bubbles can influence other bubbles but not absolutely floor all. teaching english worldwide is dangerous and i fear for the future.

>>17285287
/lit/ wont and cant help you. If you think you are somehow better than normies because you spent some time reading philosophy, despite being in the exact same conditions as them, then you can't help yourself.

Most of the people I see who thinks everyone is an NPC are either a narcissist or they have a fear of failure/anxiety when talking to people.

>>17290262
kind of like social development. it's easy to forsake rapidly but takes a long time to redevelop.

if you think about narrowmindedness being a limited set of ideas and patterns overturning and simplifying others to form a system (only certain things can be derived from a system if you only have one worldwide, without strong systems in general it is more freeform and harder to kill off variable ideas and patterns because there is no need or way to 'correct' the world). consider that this is similar to social development in that when you lose it, it's hard to get back but even worse because it snowballs into an ever smaller set and ever inflexible system. your ability to step outside the box dies and the box becomes smaller and smaller.

Milk and Honey
Harry Potter
comedians
Also, NPCS dont read faggot. These normies only read whatever bullshit they make them read at indoctrination U
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHyvRHrYYBA

>>17290391
awareness and openmindedness is still possible but a unique thing through great effort, figuring it out on your own. with more variability there is a higher level of openness and flexibility by default, so finding that awareness and openmindedness is much easier and not individual-bound fluke.

>>17290415
another idea: overstimulation, the internet particularly, makes it hard to stop and reflect and synthesise and create. input is more 1:1 to the output and so little thinking happens. even disregarding everything else, this alone makes it very challenging like a drug addiction keeping you in a heedless state.

>>17285287
Brandon Sanderson's The Way of Kings.

>>17285348
>which doesn't feel better than the blissful ignorance enjoyed by nearly everybody else
I disagree with that, they seem overly anxious. They live there whole life in ignorance and there for fear.
Listen to them walk, they just play word games that are meant to subconsciously express there anxiety. They speak as to keep up the illusion of control in there lives, rather than state an expression of beauty or of wisdom.

For me NPC means a person with little to no ability for introspection, self-awareness, self-reflection + high levels of hypocrisy combined with what appears to me as a denial of their individual nature because they are not strong enough to resist outside pressures placed on their behavior (by society, or whoever). The individual gets thrown into the dark and then there's only left to do what everybody else does. Some NPC's go mad because of this repression, their nature is longing to come out, but after years of repression it is more like a uncontrollable bursting out and can result in all kinds of mad behavior, in turn shocking themselves because they have no (self-)awareness of the stranger locked up inside. This idea is supposed to mix (when it bursts out) with the idea of "the shadow site" that one can find within psychology but it is not the same thing at all. NPC's don't have the ability to discover themselves, but they can't just be nothing, so they are whatever external forces shove into their face. If it weren't for these kinds of easily bendable people, we would be looking at a radically different state of the world, I don't know if for the better or for the worse though to be honest.

>>17287494
This. If you are American and travel abroad and you realize how plastic American culture is.

>>17287524
Are you from Vancouver? Shittiest city I have ever lived in.

>>17286939
xkcd is the worst thing ever made

>>17286939

>>17285287
the big book of autist bad neurotypical good

>>17290034
To get attention

>>17289878
cope

>>17286711
>The Shock Doctrine

Why?

>>17290224
seethe

>>17291291
are you autistic? how do i get an autist gf i can spoil? semi neurotypical here. btw why do autists focus on tribes so much i never hear anyone else using the term neurotypical.

>>17285287
Green lights

>>17290027
Betterer

I created a classification for people, from totally Npc to an element that totally stands out:

Drone
Human
Person
Individual
Singularity

I might elaborate later, if anyone is interested (probabily nobody lel)

>>17290935
Very well put, Anon.

>>17290984
>Vancouver
I went to university in Victoria, which is basically an extension of Vancouver. Pretty soulless, everybody thinks they're a hippie.

>>17292808
why was the playstation dude me in like 3rd grade? I thought I was so based because I could play resistance, but they couldnt

this thread sucks, is every board just complete trash nowadays?

>>17293787
It's so bad that you had to make an attention-seeking post in it?

>>17285287
Literally anything popular. You can read popular bullshit critically and try to piece out meanings and motives. Doing so will a) keep you current and grounded; b) allow you to have more meaningful conversations about books with anyone who still reads; and c) give you insight about what MAKES those books popular with the people who read them.
You can have a nice conversation with someone who reads at the surface level (characters or events) by bringing some of your higher level insights in (about overarching ideas and themes), and you will be surprised at how well "the normies" respond.
(That is, of course, assuming you can find anyone who still reads.)
Just hit up the NYT bestseller list and pick out a few. Why not.

>>17293804
sorry anon, you just don't get it

>>17285348
Keep jerking yourself off like that I'm sure it'll work out

>>17286939
Wow

>>17285390
This. These fags moaning about NPCs need to grow up and/or go outside

>>17287016
Everyone thinks they're the protagonist of life until they realize it doesn't work that way. The kid talking about people being on scripts just misses the point. With minimal effort and knowledge of anyone you can scheme out the "script" they operate on. I have my depressive loops and fear and insecurity and, similar to the kid >>17285348 i have my own feelins of superiority of people around me being simple minded. I even got a kickstart in this department being the only english bilingual kid around in a society of italian eurocucks. While my classmates were watching football I was online going through the enlightend atheism to blackpilled to just dead and depressed online, while missing out on real life.

For people like this once you realize you've missed out on "normality" and you don't know how to begin with it now, a great fallback is a sense of moral superiority over all the mindless drones around you. But eventually you grow up and realize you had the privilege of having something resembling a non-terrible family, food on the table and clothes on your back. And maybe the mindless karen at the store checking every label might seem so boring to you, but she's had 40 years of life at her back and kids to feed at home. And what if her greatest pleasure is having 40 minutes to watch a soap opera on tv. It's sad that's how some people end up. But a lot of them do. And just feeling superior about it all doesn't really make you better than them.

>>17294615
BIIIIIG thonk

>>17285287
Check out TV Theory - it can explain conventional narrative tropes used in television.

Read popular fiction. I took a course on it, read things from James Bond to Confessions of a Shopaholic (which was awful), but this type of reading will give you a good window into the popular imagination.

Read social justice/feminist theory. As the (arguably) defacto worldview, understanding the tenets of this way of thought will give you great insight into the normie.

For that matter, head over to /pol/ to get the inverse. Both are off the mark, if you ask me.

adorno - culture industry

>>17294692
based rec ty

>>17294615
fairly good post

>>17285348
Here's the real truth: You are a drone too you self absorbed fool. Only you have it worse, because you have the ability to watch your script as it executes and delude yourself into believing that you wrote it.

>>17294943
its very first year /lit/. Half of the post is basic DFW this is water shit. And that isn't even saying it's bad. But it's like 2010 reddit level omg Sonder omg so true so deep.

The kids growing up today have such a more blackpilled online culture around them right under the shiny instagram surface, than the one we had a decade ago. Sure you could easily find dark and depressing shit, but not as openly and pervasively doomer. And while the r/atheism manchilds that never left that phase of discovering that god might not exist, and fixate on that, are nowhere near as borderline as the early teens finding 4chan and pol nowadays. It's really sad in my opinion, and you can have whatever political belief you want, you gotta feel for these kids growing up in this self imposed societal safety blanket/prison, where the only escape is a sense of superiority and fatalistic it's not my fault it's the damn femoids and my phrenological faults preclude me from anything good, I might as well wallow in it and feel warmed by how unfair it all is and how it revolves around me me me.

Not to go on a rant, but if we want the next generations to be less fucked up than we are, we gotta try to step in the way of this doomer shit, or at least help them outgrow it into accepting that this is the life we have whether we like it or not.