/lit/ - Literature

The logical problem of the trinity is a problem that pertains to the consistency of the following propositions:
1. The Father is God.
2. The Son is God.
3. The Holy Spirit is God.
4. The Father is not the Son.
5. The Father is not the Holy Spirit.
6. The Son us not the Holy Spirit.
7. There is exactly one God.

Bro your hand can make a thumbs up, a hang loose sign, and the fuck you sign(middle finger). All these things are distinct from each other but still a hand.

>>17291407
>I'm an atheist
you got filtered hard

>>17291465
Do these gestures all at the same time with one hand.

>>17291407
I find it incredible that you can openly tell people that you're just fucking around, and still get earnest replies.

>>17291407
Is the trinity the ultimate pleb filter?

>>17291514
>earnest
imagine being this filtered

>>17291487
Most so-called believers are. Tell me, when you get sick, which one do you alert first: a doctor or a priest?

>>17291526
Wait and see.

embarrassing thread

>>17291533
This is low even for 4chan

>>17291533
Neither.

>>17291523
It actually is not even a plebfilter but also a midwitfilter.

>>17291533
>Tell me, when you put your pants on in the morning, what do you do: pull them up or wait for God to do it for you?

>>17291544
Doesn’t change the fact that what you do is what you believe in, not what you proclaim. This is even studied by Samuelson

>>17291560
>Tell me, when you take a shit, what do you do: wipe or pray to God?

>>17291407
tree is trunk, branch, leaf. trunk is not branch is not leaf.
you faggots restrict yourself to 2d logic.

>>17291588
But the branch is not the whole of the tree.

You got caught in the filter.

Just look up what mohammed wrote in his quran about this.

Its so funnily clear he didnt understand it at all.

>>17291407
Monarchia of the father is the next step of filtering.

>>17291533
>This, for me, ish the miracle of Christianity. *SNIFF* When Christ on the cross cries out: "Father, Father why have you forsaken me", God Himshelf becomes an atheist and so on and so on *SNIFF SNIFF*

>>17291533
doctors are servants of God for thous with weak faith

>>17291667
Zizek was filtered.

God is wholly man and wholly god. A man can cry out for god, so can Jesus.

>>17291621
Originally, he understood the Trinity to be the Father, the Son, and Mary. kek

>>17291701
kek

>>17291690
>crying out to yourself
>when you’re omnipotent and can stop your own suffering immediately, forgive the origin sin without this unnecessary torture and just explain to people why they should behave
Yeah that makes sense

>>17291701
This literally means that Allah (suw) himself was filtered by aristotelian thought.

Toppest kek.

>>17291972
It literally does. Because Jesus is not a godhuman but god and human, unmixed, wholy and inseperated.

bumpity

>>17291667
For real tho, why did Jesus say that

>>17292327
see
>>17291690

>>17292327
Because Jesus was predistined as a threeunified God to say this before this universe was created.

>>17292327
Take your pick:
>Because in the context of Judaism Yeshua claiming to be God has a radically different meaning such that Yeshua can both be Yahweh and separate from Yahweh.
>Because Yeshua was just some guy and the whole thing is a sham
>Because he's quoting Psalm 22:1.

>>17292416
All of these are blasphemous.

>>17292432
Welcome to Abrahamism.

>>17292432
how is quoting psalm 22:1 blasphemous?

>>17292023
>Jesus is not a godhuman but god and human, unmixed, wholy and inseperated.
>1 is actually 2, but also 1 at the same time
Your brain on Abrahamism

>>17292496
Meditate about that question.

>>17292503
You were, just like Muhammad(pbuh), filtered by aistotelian thought.

>>17292503
hypostasis =/= ousia

>>17292525
There is no prove these two are different.

>>17292548
not to an illiterate retard like you, maybe. humanity is one (essence/nature) but is many (individuals) but is also one at the same time

>>17292505
never heard about it being blasphemous, so say why it is otherwise you probably dont know what youre talking about

>>17292560
cope seethe and dilate

>>17291407
Being a wolf in sheep's clothing is a worse sin than just being a wolf. Seeking to anger others for your own amusement rather than helping them to understand the truth is a sin. The Trinity was not an artificially designed "filter" but rather a theological development that emerged from centuries of debate among sincere Christians and their opponents. Stop pretending to be a Christian online. You're only hurting yourself in the end, and in worse ways than you know.

>>17292569
thank you for admitting everything i said.

You sound like a goddamn toolbag.

>>17292571
I agree with you but let me correct two things:
1. the Trinity is not a theological development that emerged from centuries of debate, it was already in the Scriptures and many early christians from the first and second century already affirmed it.
2. he is not only hurting himself, he is hurting others as well, keeping them away from truth.

>>17291435
Matthew is a human
Mark is a human
Luke is a human
Mathew is not mark
Mark is not Luke
Luke is not Matthew
There is one humanity.

>>17292588
>>17292571
99,9% of christians are christian despite not understanding the philosophical implications of Dreifaltigkeit.

>>17292589
But Luke is not the humanity.

You are filtered.

>>17292599
>Dreifaltigkeit
You're that German guy who sperged out last thread because you, like all Christfags, immediately started recreating ancient heresies when required to think even slightly about your faith, aren't you?

>>17292607
Yes I am that guy, sorry for that.

But I have understood it now.

>>17292599
agreed but i don't see how this is relevant to what both of our posts were addressing to, also what is this pretense to employ german term for the Trinity?

>>17292603
neither is any of the hypostases the ousia itself, otherwise the hypostasis would not be a hypostasis but the ousia itself

>>17291701
that's more a sign of the absolute state of papists than any misunderstanding by mohammed

>>17292567


don't listen to this >>17292607
guy, he's the resident athiest who only comments on trinity posts and calls everyone heretics

>>17291407
>>17291435
>Posted this on /his/
Definitions I:
i. The Father is God
ii. The Son is God
iii. The Holy Spirit is God
Definitions II:
i. The Father isn't The Son
ii. The Father isn't The Holy Spirit
iii. The Son isn't The Holy Spirit

Interpretations of "is":
identative - - - - - - - - (e.g. Socrates is the Athenian philosopher whose followers were Plato, Xenophon, etc.)
attributive - - - - - - - - (e.g. Socrates is a man)

Because of Definitions II, the meaning of "is" can't be identative so it must be attributive, i.e. all three entities have the attribute of being God.
This would imply though, because of Definitions I, that there are at least three entities with the attribute of being god (i.e. tritheism).

>I am the Lord thy God.
>Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
Obviously, this can not be the case.
So we want monotheism, but how?
We have three distinct entities which form another entity. This may seem strange but it isn't.
Biologically we are entities made of smaller entities (viz. cells).
We say when someone steps on our foot that they "stepped on me", by this we do not mean we are our foots but that our foot is continuous with our self.
God is a metaphysical consciousness though so his entities might be more analogous to our superliminal, liminal, and subliminal consciousnesses.
These entities all have functions which are all distinct, and which we experience through their affect on us, but which are all, nonetheless, continuous with the entity that is God.

>>17292671
>God is a metaphysical consciousness though so his entities might be more analogous to our superliminal, liminal, and subliminal consciousnesses.

This is the exact point you threw your logic overboard.

Why does the Trinity need to make logical sense? Serious question.

>>17292671
You almost have it, almost.

Just one more step. In your explaination of consciousness you seem to forget that beings with just a subliminal mind exist.

Dreamers f.e.

>>17292711
How? It's just a statement of what I consider is a more appropriate analogy. It really doesn't change my argument.

>>17292786
It does, such the question, if it has to, does not pose itself.

i. You exist.
ii. Do you have to exist?
Yes because you are currently answering this question.

>>17292786
It transcendence normal logical categories

>>17292816
Your analogy does not reflect the fact that jesus, on his own, is all of the one god.

In your analogy jesus still is just an "integral" part of god.

Not a part that constructs the whole of god...

>>17292850
>a part that constructs the whole of god
The three lines that form the Dreieck...

>>17292938
wow dude...

Now I want a Shirt with that picture.

>>17292945
wow dude

>>17292976
cool dood like real dooood

>>17293019
wowzers bazinga cope sneed

>>17292938
This is wowing. I need this stitched on a pillow NOW.

>>17291533
go to the priest first. read taleb if you want to know why.

And you dumbfucks call yourself monotheistic

>>17293055
hey man can you unblock me please

>>17292589
>There is one humanity
Doubtful

>>17292786
Saint Augustine was walking on a beach, pondering the nature of the trinity
His thoughts were distracted by a boy, who had dug a large hole in the sand, and filled a seashell with water, and walked back and forth from the ocean to the hole, filling the hole with water from his seashell
Saint Augustine watched this happen over and over again, before finally he went up to the boy and asked what he was doing
>I’m trying to fit the ocean into this hole
was the boys reply. Saint Augustine laughed, and explained that it was impossible to put the entire ocean into a tiny hole you dug on the beach
And the boy revealed himself to be an angel, and the angel said to Saint Augustine
>I will put the entire ocean into this hole before you fully understand the doctrine of the trinity

>>17292786
if youre taking the fideist route, you cant really get mad at other for not accepting your beliefs or criticizing them.

What if Christianity is mystical?
Father = Godhead
Christ = Man who is aware of the Divine Ground of his Being.
Holy Spirit = Subjective replication of Godhead within Son of God.

>>17293092
Big if true.

Tritheism is the final redpill

Imagine having to base your understanding of god trough outdated concepts of greek object ontology and then throwing your hands up "oh it's a mystery" because nobody today conceptualizes the world through those categories because it's retarded

>>17293111
The hole?

>>17293109
Best post in this thread

>>17292850
You're are confused, stop speaking nonsense.
Jesus is as much God as the Father and the Holy Ghost are.
He isn't the Father and he isn't the Holy Ghost.
God is all three of them though, so it follows that the whole of God can't be reduced to just Jesus, or just the Father, or just the Holy Ghost (i.e. contrary to what you said, the whole of God isn't summed up in just the being of Christ the Lord.) What you are suggesting is a heresy which preys on most peoples' prejudices of which aspects of God are more important or "holiest" among all. This is wrong.
Jesus Christ is God, he is the one true God, but he isn't the only "part" of god (i.e. he isn't the only function of God. There is God as salvation, but there is also God as the creator, and God as Paraclete, etc.).

>>17293092
>>17293111
Holy shit, is God literally just trolling us?
>ywn understand the trinity (me) faggot.

>>17291407
great thread

>>17293176
You have entirely mistunderstood my point. But thats my fault for my bad english.

It's no coincidence that christianity inevitably relapsed in some of the most grotesque forms of cryptopolitheism around.
That's what happens when you want the body of Christ and eat it too, I guess.

>>17293284
Dont tempt me to get started on transsubstatiation!

>>17291407
Three persons, one essence.

>>17291588
>>17291643
filtered and heretical
>>17292786
based and basedpilled

>>17293801
But how does that work? Also what exactly is an essence?

>>17293801
>scat

>>17293850
The best argument I've seen is water as essence, and it's solid, liquid and gaseous form being the trinity.

It still seems like polytheism to me

>>17291533
What are secondary and primary causes.

>>17294335
You must be new here.

>he doesn't know the trinity proof circa 2021

>https://medium.com/interfaith-now/the-one-and-only-god-a-mormon-christology-of-radical-inclusion-b22fc7cc01a1
>mfw his trinity is NOT christocentric

>>17292327
He was under a lot of stress.