/lit/ - Literature

>>17232929
>Malazan
I lost the will to keep on reading after Chain of Dogs

Malazan sucks.

I like Malazan.

Reminder that Karsa will not be in the first Witness book, possibly also not even in the second one.

>>17233100
the virgin karsa, the chad gnauir

>>17232929
Pic there >>17231625 got me thinking: Is there any good /sffg/ related book with a muscle waifu?

>>17233233
Kilimandros from Malzan and the forkrul assail, she's barely in it though

Hey /sffg/, I finished Tigana by Guy Gavriel Kay, as suggested here. Where do I go from here if I wish to explore more of the same author?

>>17232929
ahem.
Fuck E William Brown

Best book in the cyberpunk genre?

>>17233279
Ngl most of his other books aren't like Tigana, the fantasy elements are really toned down. The Fionavar Tapestry books are not bad though

why is this nigga so obsessed with boiled leather

>>17231966
>>17231966
r e m i n d e r

>>17233465
Fuck that, what the hell is the Old Gods religion supposed to be.
>no shrines
>no hymns or myths
>no prayers or chants
Is this what white people think shinto is?

>>17233465
perhaps because it’s edible?

malazan fucking sucks

>>17232464
Yes. Half of the soldiers are women for unclear reassons.

>>17233465
what a vile gnome

>>17233484
Religion in GERM is basically le nonexistent opiate of the masses check my sweet fedora m’lady. The only damnation this man fears is constipation from too much spiced honey duck. When you die, it’s just lights out. Contrast with Scotty’s world.

>>17232364
Asimov is an OLD author anon, for his time his work was quite striking and it's had a large influence in several key scifi concepts: space-faring empires (inspired Dune, thus by extension all Dune copies i.e. Star Wars and 40K), robot and androids (hugely influential recently), and really shaped the sub-genre of hard scifi.

Caption this. GO

>>17233510
I think the idea is supposed to be that magic equalizes everything, thus women can hold places of power in their world.
That still doesn't explain why so many are literally just lmao0warrens soldiers, sappers and the like, yet able to battle Ascendants and swordfighters with thousands of years of experience.
I like Malazan in general, but this shit is just absurd.

>>17233555
>>17233510

When have women in medieval times actually fought?

I know of certain folk legends and historical recollections, but never in an army.

> teleports behind you
> writes actual good imaginative fantasy that has strong literary merit and isn’t just glorified conan the barbarian
> filters 95% of /sffg/
heh nothin’ personnel kiddo

>>17233405
Why does this look real..... Like something the Russians did?

>>17233586
forgot pic. borges writes ACTUAL literary fantasy, not this cheap paperback schlock you burgers seem to love so well.

Filthy Elf fucking degenerates.

>>17233578
you will never be a real woman

>>17233578
>When have women in medieval times actually fought?
Literally never or at least there have been no armies/units consisting of a high number women warriors that could actually be taken seriously.
Testosterone is one hell of a hormone and women, by that I mean actual women not trannies, literally can not compete with men in terms of strength and skill. Even ones that lift now and blast test can fairly easily be bested by almost any guy with normal hormone levels in a relatively short time of training with no roids.
Best you can find are some few examples of individuals that took part in some wars/battles, but even that shit is exceedingly rare.

>>17233546
whos the nigga in the middle

>>17233597
blind spic, died how he lived, a spic retard

>>17233766
tragicomic cope, you’ve never actually read him

>want to write fantasy
>feel the need to have some explanation for the magic
>tone down the magic
>ends up being scifi instead
autism

>>17233794
I have though tranny his stories are great

>>17233698
this might be why i hate female badass fighter characters so much, they don't make any sense no matter what the current social justice nonsense says about gender equality.
that and they're always the same fucking character, they're always invincible, always better than the male lead at fighting even though the male lead is often legitimately training and growing up as a soldier and has fucking testosterone and a vastly superior musculature and all that shit doesn't matter cuz here's the female badass because it's 2018 and we have to have this character or the book isn't marketable.

i should just stick to old books i guess, this problem doesn't seem likely to be fixed anytime in the future.

>>17233593
It’s from Johnny Mnemonic

>>17233698
This is why the "ranger/Artemis" archetype is the way to go for "realistic" women warriors in a medieval setting. Women can use bows/arrows or crossbows just fine, and so a medieval woman warrior would rely on those tools. (Or magic, if the work has that).

>>17233961
>Women can use bows/arrows
you ever tried to draw a fucking medieval ass bow
you need some arms to draw it and aim it
crossbow is more likely

>>17226385
How did Bailey Jay get so thicc? Books where thicc asspussy knows their place a an onahole.

Does anyone know of any conservative SFF? Not libertarian or neo-liberalism but old school order, justice, tradition conservatism.

>>17233961
no
the only realistic warrior woman archetype is the mounted scythian-amazon warrior
A woman fighting on horseback is less disadvantaged by her inferior height and reach

>>17234039
Depends on the bow. An English longbow draw weight is 70-80 pounds. I’m sure there are some women who can do it. A mongol bow draw weight is like 150lbs and you’re riding in the saddle too. It’s a hell of a lot more believable than women knights or knife fighters.

>>17234083
as long as it's not like a whole army of them i'm fine just thinking they've got some kind of intersex thing going on as that's relatively common
i think brienne in asoiaf is probably the best example of it

>>17234083
your numbers are waaay off
a proper english yew bows draw weight hovered around the 150lbs, composite horse bows were less then this

>>17234105
brienne is just creepy ass grrm tranny wish fulfillment

>"It goes like this: A slender young bull and his harem of cows are shocked to discover that their owner has purchased another bull, far deeper of chest, far thicker of horn, and far more violent of temper. Even still, when the owner’s sons drive the mighty newcomer to pasture, the young bull lowers his horns, begins snorting and stamping. ‘No!’ his cows cry. ‘Please, don’t risk your life for us!’ ‘Risk my life?’ the young bull exclaims. ‘I’m just making sure he knows I’m a bull!’”

>>17233681
All I want is to suck feminine cock.

>>17233510
>>17233555
I dont think there needs to be a reason. Malazan has women soldiers. It's not our universe and at no point are women said to be physically weaker.
The only problem with women soliders is when either they are usually weaker but for whatever reason they become allowed to join the army and are now badass or it is written in our universe.

I laugh at you fugs. In nature, the female is usually larger and stronger than males, it's only humans where the men are larger and stronger than the females.
Yet you faggots have a problem where IN A FUCKING FANTASY WORLD, the female can match a man, or has evolved differently to match men. You go off about it's not believable that a female can match a man, Yet it happens in real life.
kys

>>17234078
>>17234039
>>17233961
>>17233847
>>17233698

George R.R. Martin and who else? Bakker?

I can't think of many other authors.

>>17234175
t. Bill Nye, the woke guy

>>17234165
Ok so its an alien tranny world

trannys want real women to fight in wars and get shot full of arrows and chopped to pieces, it is misogyny basically

>>17234165
it's always a problem, alt universes or not, unless everything else about genders is also completely unique to that universe.

it's fine with shit like aliens that are non-humanoid and are fundamentally different in a variety of ways, because then it's at least somewhat beleivable.

>>17234183
honestly just old shit works, specific authors is much more difficult. azimov's stuff doesn't have any badass warrior chicks as far as i can remember, neither does lotr (aside from that literally one trololol i'm a woman fuck your prophecy dumbshit line). i think the older the better in terms of avoiding this horrendous, immersion annihilating trope.

this isn't immediately a /lit/ thing but maybe you guys can help me name or at least find the origin of this trope
>story set in mystic orient, samurais/ninjas, shoguns, dragons and shit
>sequel involves time travel/reincarnation into a cyberpunk/far-future-tech setting with cyber ninjas/samurai/etc

>>17232929
>Malazan
I can only describe the writing as videogame-tier and not very good at that.

Authors with real life experience in war and whatnot know it is nonsensical and dumb to have 5 foot 1 90lb girls trying fight like a man
Women can do so many things besides fighting and killing, it betrays the savagery and materialistic outlook of writers when they imply that the true value of a person lies in their ability to murder people. That is why there is no female Aragorn, it's always a female mass murderer smug girl

>>17234216
that art gives me tranny vibes

>>17234231
Says more about your limited frame of reference and vocabulary than Malazan.

>>17234211
For all intents and purposes they are an alien "human". They descend from a non-Earth species.
>verything else about genders is also completely unique to that universe.
Retarded take. Everything has to be consistent, not unique. If women are consitantly as strong as men that is fine. If women are usually weaker but for some reason give them a sword and they become a soldier, that is crap.

>>17234292
no, if the only change in the universe is
>the species is descended from a non-earth species
>everything's the same except women are just as capable at fighting as men
then it's fucking retarded.
if it's a matriarchal society or if there's substantial physical differences from reality where most women are amazons and men are scrawny home caretakers then fine, enjoy your fetish i guess, but that's a pretty rare thing.
things also have to be consistent, true, but that's always true, not specific to this gender flip women can fight nonsense that ruins every book it's in.

>>17234175
>In nature, the female is usually larger and stronger than males, it's only humans where the men are larger and stronger than the females.

American education

>>17234277
>limited frame of reference
Usually the case with Malazan fans and their baby's first fantasy book.

>>17234251
>>17234216
>pigeon-toed

What am I in for?

>>17234175
incidences in which this happens in real-life:
>rabbits
>insects, especially spiders
>reptiles
>owls, some other birds of prey
and in some mammals like the spotted hyena and baleen whale.

incidences where this doesn't happen:
>humans
>monkeys/apes/chimps etc, the closest human relative by dna
>most of the remainder of life on the planet

please fuck off, thank you.

>>17233961
>This is why the "ranger/Artemis" archetype is the way to go for "realistic" women warriors in a medieval setting. Women can use bows/arrows or crossbows just fine
t. never fired a bow in his life

It requires immense upper body strength to draw and fire a bow repeatedly. Crossbows are also heavy and cumbersome, so a typical woman would not have an easy time using one.

>>17234305
I doubt anybody who is new to fantasy can even finish the first Malazan book.

>>17234300
Frogs, Mantis, Spiders, etc

I think Malazan does a good job of building its world and then exploring that world.
Stormlight started off well in that regard but then, despite Roshar being xboxhueg, the scope of events is now so limited upon a small area.

Trull = Itkovian > Bugg/Tehol > Beak

>>17234374
>tfw beak

>>17234354
Real talk: they are so bland they pass right through. I managed to read the first two and all I retained is some edgelord with a sword of ultimate deathly darkness and a flying fortress (reads like some sperg's self-insert) and le assassin guild from book two which at first I thought were a caricature because they are more comical than Pratchett's assassins. So I can totally imagine people swallowing those books then looking back at the huge pile of paper and thinking they've achieved something.

fuck bros I can't believe he did it. He went the way of David Foster Wallace apparently.

RIP Richard Scott Bakker 1967 - 2021

Truth shines.

>>17233510
Cause the Malazan Empire uses the army to make people loyal to the empire, they don't discriminate by gender or age when recruiting. And they don't rely on their soldiers being "amazing warriors" either, they rely on numbers and discipline through training to win out against less organized enemies that have neither the discipline nor the logistics to sustain a prolonged campaign. Basically the Roman methodology for turning ordinary citizens into soldiers and using them against neighboring tribes.

But where Malazan differs from Rome is that they are basically an army with a state. The army basically is the empire, so the more people they can recruit the better. It's not really important that women are weaker than men, because individually they only have to be able to keep up with the formation in the regular units. In the irregular units, like the Marines or the Sappers, being weaker also doesn't matter since they're not really fighting people face to face.

Also, the one time you have a female swordsman trying to fight like a man on the front lines during a siege, she gets the shit beat out of her and raped.

>>17234411
All I got out of your post is you have terrible reading comprehension and don't pay attention to anything you read, so it's not surprising you don't like Malazan if this is how you approach books.

Tavore is the Malazan Shallan: invented purely for plot and gets away with everything.

>>17234432
I wish Shallan was like Tavore because then she'd have almost no speaking lines.

>>17234427
Please stop responding to shitposters.

>>17234442
I thought this here is a designated shitting thread, with malazanbait in the op and all.

>>17234432
>Shallan
>main character in most books
>gets tons of chapters from her PoV
>tons of dialogue with other important characters
>frequently acts independently on one or more secret agendas

>Tavore
>minor supporting character in the books she appears in, and is absent from half of them
>has literally no PoV chapters
>has almost no dialogue
>spends most of her time shut up in her quarters

If Shallan were more like Tavore people probably wouldn't even remember her name.

>>17234419
wait what???
post proof

>>17234454
To be a minor supporting character, she sure played a big fucking role in the overall arching plot, perhaps one of the more important figures in the entire series.

>>17234454
>If Shallan were more like Tavore people probably wouldn't even remember her name.
yes, that would be ideal. even better if she just wasn't in the books literally at all.

>>17233578
What's wrong with his hair?

>>17233405
either neuromancer or johny mnemonic. Always follow the OGs.

>>17233546
>tfw the fat man doesn't know that the wages of merely living are damnation

>>17234419
Nice bait but I feel like he’d be too scared of damnation to go through with it. For chrissakes, the man’s books scared me out of my own suicidal ideation.

>>17234251
You'd probably like that, wouldn't you, bakkerfag?
Either way, its not my art nor even from my harddrive, at least intentionally; I think I looked up cyber ninja or something so it probably is tranny

Thoughts on “Call of the Arcade”? I thought it was a really great sci-fi novel.

>>17234251
sci-fi ninjapunk on artstation
it's a grill

>>17233520
In the show, yes. In the books, it's proven that Gods exist and lots of people believe in them

>>17234807
Even in the books religion or religiosity doesn't figure that much. GRRM is just the kind of person that doesn't get what moves religion and belief.

>go into the prince of nothing expecting Inrithi to be typical fantasy Catholicism
>its actually a weird fusion of greco-hindu-babylonian cults with their vedic texts inscribed on a 4000 year old massive tusk

>>17233184
I really want to understand what this pic means but I really don’t want to read rhythm of war

>>17232929
Why is it that most of the time when fantasy authors try to create a mythology for their world it just comes across as cringe?

>>17234928
How do you get an original fantasy world without some sort of mythology?

>>17234928
because most authors are illiterate about history and religions

>>17234932
I should rephrase what I mean. I like having mythology in a fantasy world, however it seems when a lot of fantasy authors try to do it, it just comes across badly. Its like they try too hard or are just so boring in their idea of it. Glorantha did a brilliant job in its mythology imo.

>glorantha
truly based

>>17234817
Dude, the whole Lord of Light subplot? The Drowned God which plays a big factor in the Greyjoy storyline?

>>17233174
>>17233184
Why is /lit/ so motherfucking bad at this format

>>17234980
>lord of light
rhllor is dumb
>Drowned God
everything to do with the ironborn is shit

>>17234980
>lord of light
Some crazy chick feeding lies to make her lover conquer the world.
>drowned god
Actually forgot he existed. It's been so long since I've read this goddamn series.

>glorantha
locked

>>17234917
he thought the book would involve things that were interesting and instead got
>shallan being annoying
>navani having stockholm syndrome and being a traitor for reasons required by the (bad) overarching plot
>kaladin literally becomes a shitty ptsd doctor and does nothing interesting outside of the first few chapters or the last few chapters

i don't really know why he expected it to be good after oathbringer, maybe he thought that was just the book to be used to set up later plot elements and shit, but it turns out no, that was actually this book, and also it was worse than anything that precedes it.
at least we can all stop reading stormlight now, no reasonable justification to go forward exists.

> tfw you will never feast with heroes and lay with virgins in Holy Chalahall
> tfw you will be the feast and the virgin to be used and enjoyed by Ciphrang forever and eternally
> tfw you trusted Him

>>17234991
What's wrong with those? You're just projecting because you didn't read them.

>>17235076
the watched/read/played -> expected -> got format is supposed to be three singular images not a collage of ideas. Brevity is important and they are supposed to be funny and descriptive not just descriptive. The best ones usually reference an in-joke you would only understand after experiencing the work yourself

>>17234928
because fantasy authors cant into good symbolism and metaphors and can't write mythological stories if they were tutored by Homer

>>17234991
The bakker one is kinda accurate. Maybe you're just dumb.

BAKKED.COM

>>17234374
> started off well
>Doubt
If you think about it in the first two books Sanderson only "explored" well the BoringPlains. It is only thanks to the Interludes and internal art that we get an idea of what Roshar is.
With the same wordcount (we are talking about something like 782,000 words!) Other authors have definitely shown more and better.

kingkiller chronicles worth it?

>>17235460
no they're shit

>>17235435
I was primarily thinking about the Interludes. There was potential and now Interludes are less
>cool thing happening in remote country
and more
>here's setup for the next Act!
Disappointing.

>>17235460
Only if you want to read about the author's self insert fantasy for 2 books and then never get an ending because he won't finish it

>>17235460
if it ends well, since it's mostly buildup.
it probably won't ever end, so no.

>>17235485
>Disappointing
Yup. For once, however, it seems that it is not entirely his fault. The Mormon hivemind seems to have whimpered a lot about the Interludes, calling them useless and boring and demanding a change of direction. A bunch of retards.

>>17234216
Samurai Jack nigga

. . . . . . .

>>17235568
surely a Genndy cartoon can't be responsible for such a major trope?
I figured the originator was some shitty ultraviolent 90s anime that aired on latenight scifi

>>17232929
I heard there are lesbians in this, how much lesbians is there?

>>17235550
>The Mormon hivemind seems to have whimpered a lot about the Interludes, calling them useless and boring and demanding a change of direction
lolwhat
That sounds like the dumbest shit but stupid people are always the ones with power.

>>17235485
>interlude starts with a character you don't know or is female
skip
>interlude is szeth or taravangian
yeah alright i'll read this one.

glad i developed this heuristic as quickly as i did.

>>17234320
no idea havent read it

>>17235571
HOW
I HATE
THIS THREAD

>>17235630
Taravangian is a plot device.

>>17235643
and yet he is also interesting to read, or he was until the end of RoW and i'm sure will never be interesting again.

>>17235001
Seethe somewhere else
>>17235006
>Some crazy chick feeding lies to make her lover conquer the world.
That's showfaggotry

Describe a cosmere character in one word or phrase
I'll start:

>kill yourself my man

>>17235657
its true, sorry grrm shart

>>17235675
My opinion > Your opinion
Checkmate

>>17235643
Making Tavangian the new Odium was the dumbest shit I've ever seen. Killed of the character for me.
Also, milking Szeth to the limit is also a cunt move from him.

>>17234980
religion to GRRM is still just something that operates primarily on the level of the plot, "magic", or character motivation. as a reader you can tell he doesn't grapple with these questions, he just doesn't wonder about the fate of his eternal soul... he's much more concerned with what's on the plate in front of him, so to speak.

>>17234039
You do realize that there women's archery is an actual event at the Olympics right?

>>17235741
what is that copypasta, about ASOIAF being a perfect representation of what its like to view the world as a fat man

>>17235752
do you think the bows they used today are the same as the ones they used back then
do you think olympic archery is the same as rolling out with an army and shooting at people and moving to a new location with your heavy ass equipment
do you think women in those times were fed well enough to develop enough muscle to do that shit

i actually don't care if people want to write books involving female warriors because i'm not a "history autist"/ashamed conservative
but i do think there's a reason that historically it didn't really happen

>>17235796
You do realize that the best archers in the world are all Korean right right?

>>17235752
They use light bows. Then again it's still enough to kill a human, so I don't get their anger. An Amazon with light bow could still be a valid support character, as long as the enemies aren't too well armored / thick skinned (in case of monsters), and even then with good aim and a bit of luck she should be able to achieve something.

>>17235803
I thought that girls from SA were winning all the competitions.

>>17235813
a mounted amazon girl, like what existed irl in iranic scythian cultures

>>17233184
People should post this one on the original forums.

we are a race of lovers

Is GRRM simply a giant troll? A shitposter writ large?
> The ship groaned and growled beneath him like a constipated fat man straining to shit.
> The sight of their arousal was arousing.
> "Was there ever a woman with nipples so large or so responsive?"
> "From the south," said Robb. "But if we can attack from the north and west simultaneously, and take the ironmen in the rear while they are beating off what they think is my main thrust up the causeway, then we have a chance."

>>17235752
bro you don't understand
you need ARMS

>>17235845
> ywn cum like an Inchoroi

>>17235752
it's almost as if it's a separate category specifically for women because if men competed in it they would win
cuz they're better at like, physical things and stuff
due to like their nature
woah dude.

>>17235854
No, he's just almost completely enslaved to his lust and gluttony. The fat fuck can't even stop himself from describing food porn when a character is vomiting and remarks on shapely titties even when he's writing from a female POV.

"As crude as they were, the black, fire-sharpened shafts always managed to murder a select handful through a variety of cruel flukes. This was how King Coithus Narnol was maimed and forced to retire back to the Canal, and how Thane Sosering Rauchurl was felled from the heights of Gwergiruh. He was grinning to his compatriots when the missile dropped from the void of his left, piercing his cheek, breaking his teeth, and pitching him headlong into the frenzied threshing below. Death came spiralling down …
Bore him wondering to the brace of Gilgaöl."
> be random ordealman
> joyously partake in horrific Meat-related shenanigans
> yeeted by sranc javelin whilst clowning with your boys
> somehow gets saved by the God of War
> while others
make it make sense

>>17232929
Really enjoying the first book of this. Crokus and Sorry are the best parts imo.

>>17236067
it reads like the illiad

>author asks the readers how to end his story

Dropped

>>17234039
You use your back to draw a bow and yes i have, its difficult to hold for any amount of time and you wont get a lot of shots off rapidly. But a woman could. Also really depends on the draw weight, a English longbow could range from 90lb to 180lb. You can kill a man with a significantly lower draw weight assuming hes unarmoured with a 40lb draw easy. Most of bow shooting is just practice and anyone can practice.

Should I read The Expanse books before watching the show or is it pretty much a 1:1 adaptation with little lost?

>>17236220
read the books first

>>17236220
>>17236220
skip both the books slowly get more boring had to drop them after book 3

>>17236220
Neither are good, I’d skip the whole series

>>17236238
how many did you read?

>>17234427
It’s been some time since I dipped my toes into the Malazan world. Could you elaborate on the deeper values Malazan holds? Just sell me on it - I read the first two books in translation when I was younger and an author turning his fantasy campaign into a 20 novel book series impressed me. Now I need something more substantial and literary - can Malazan deliver some of that? How ridiculous is the power creep? Is it a good deconstruction of the genre?

>>17236220
i was incapable of reading the books, they are fucking terrible. they're so fucking dry, there's no imagination, it's staggering how bland and uninteresting they are.

the show sort of fixes it by accident, it's the kind of thing that has to be adapted so you can add visuals and good acting and use that to portray an ok story. better than sum of all parts etc, the books are just.. so fucking bad, i'm surprised the series got a greenlight for adaptation but hey, that's syfy, they'll produce literally anything you throw at them and spend 8 dollars on the visual effects.

I just finished The Darkness That Comes Before. what am I in for with the next novel?

>>17236253
None, why?

>>17236343
Some people say Warrior-Prophet is the best book of the series. I myself am partial to the last two books of the Second Apocalypse, but they're all gold. Alien, soggomantic gold.

>>17236266
It doesn't really sound like you have any interest in reading Malazan so why bother. I don't really recommend books to people who profess a disdain of them. There's too many books out there to try and get people read stuff they're just not interested in. As for whether Malazan is "substantial and literary", I can't say I ever spared it much thought because that's not why I read it, or why I read fantasy in general. Maybe somebody that bothered to analyze the books could give you an answer, though you'd probably have to define "deeper values" first, since that's a totally meaningless phrase.

>>17234474
And yet she was hardly in the actual story in a way that made her matter to readers. She had almost no visibility or dialogue.

>>17235643
He was one of the most compelling characters in SA, but he's effectively dead now.

>>17235752
Yes and their bows have a much lighter draw weight than men's. Because if they competed against men they wouldn't be able to hit the targets.

>>17236508
Yes. This is what upset me.

> Thought-dancer...!

>>17236503
I’m not the poster you replied to and I replied to your post in good faith. ‘Deeper values’ is just a term I used to refer to your perceived quality of the Malazan series. Honestly, I just want to be sold on it. If I do engage with something, I want to do it seriously and to me there’s no point in just reading the first six books. I can take a few stinkers, but only if the bottom line is worthwhile. I’m not a snob either, highbrow and lowbrow both have their place and I enjoy them for different reasons.
So why do you read it?

> Forgive Likaro!

>>17236770
>just reading the first six books.
Well good news, the first book, while still good, is the least well written of the series and for many the hardest to get into. If you can make it through Gardens while still being engaged and want to know more about the setting and story then each following entry will be a pleasure to read

Does it makes sense that I like brother-sister incest in my fantasy but don't have a sister IRL?

>>17236894
Now do a post isterebinth one.
Behead those who insult CHADweel

>>17236920
Perfectly. Incest fetish is way more common among people without siblings

>>17236920
yes, such is the case with like 99% of incest fetishists

>>17236894
Beginning made me think of Corneille's Le Cid, but the appearance of the bro ruined the analogy.

>>17233546
cant wait for half life 3

>>17234419
Wonder if we can have someone finish his work through his notes.

Would any of you be interested in reading something that is literally nothing but worldbuilding?
Like imagine if the appendices from LOTR was a standalone book.

>>17234039
>>17234078
>>17234349

lol
You dont need a super uber extra powerful bow to be useful in a war. Your average shortbow is fine if the enemy is not a 99% plated knight.

>>17237063
that's actually how i got into bakker. read the appendices first, realized how insane and brilliant the worldbuilding was, then went from there. i'm not a plotfag like some, though.

>>17237118
no. you know very little about medieval warfare, uniformity of release was a thing that archers trained thoroughly, you can't have some shitty weak ass woman firing a bow that falls 20 yards shorter than everybody else's and call it good, you want absolute 100% maximum range.

not saying a woman couldn't be a bandit and fire a shortbow from a horse competently but they'd never be in military service without a country having some kind of 'all citizens serve' policy, even then they'd be scullery maids and currying horses and all that menial shit you don't need to be big and strong for.

Why does this general hate GRRM so much? The first four books of ASoIaF are fucking gripping, excellent, hard to put down. He might not be as "deep" as some, but the man can tell a good story, write excellent characters, and has a good sense of humor as well –– something that's lacking in many fantasy writers.

He may not be focused on the cosmic and metaphysical, but he nails the human and the social.

>>17237173
because his writing isn't good, it's medieval gilmore girls tier writing for people who have never read a good fantasy book in their lives. he's Gor for the 2010s television

>>17237173
too much diarrhea stuff. story isn't over, ending of a story is important to the prior events.
see: lost, GoT show, kingkiller chronicles, etc.

>>17237173
He's a fraud. His brand is that his fantasy is more realistic than tolkien's, but it's pretty much always less historically accurate. He's just edgy

>>17237173
Contrarianism.

>>17237173
>nails the human and the social
not really

i have read too many web novels
my brain is fried

>>17237139

I lmao at you for thinking european medieval armies, of all armies in history, had "uniformity" in anything. They used a mishmash of armors, weapons, horses, etc. Only the nobles, (less than 5% of the pops) had good equipment and training. Most others were farmers, hunters, lumbers, fishers, etc. forced to march with them. The were not drilled, trained or expected to fulfill any kind of quota except having good health and a normal body.
Also "medieval" means anything between the fall of rome (450) and the discovery of America (1492), more than 1000 years, and a whole continent with dozens of cultures.

>>17236931
Makes his oneitis fall in love with him in the end
She, an emotionless autistic Anasûrimbor, cries and cradles him in her arms as he dies
Goes to Heaven unlike 99.9999999% of other souls.
How is it possible to win this hard, CHADweel got off better than pretty much anyone else including Killhouse.

>>17237173
ASOIAF is a trash series for casuals, even the sword of truth is a better fantasy series

>>17237173
i think it's because it's more interesting to discuss the author than the novels, with these old series that have already been talked to death, and there's a lot to hate about the author
the books aren't perfect, 4 and 5 are divisive (i didn't like them and stopped reading before the end) but the first 3 are absolutely fantastic
anyone who says they're trash when there's so little comparably decent fantasy to read is either trolling or has let their opinion of the author color their judgement of the works
that said, there's not that much to talk about, especially because most people in this thread probably already read as much of ASOIAF as they're ever going to several years ago

>>17237234
At least he got a happy ending after all that ass fucking.

>>17237234
also
becomes spiritually half-Nonman, understands Nonman history and culture better than any other human
has nohomo brosex with his best homie on the eve of battle
enjoys it

>>17237252
>sword of truth is a better fantasy series
insanely based and truthpilled

>>17236865
Fair enough and thank you. But you still did answer my question and elaborate on what makes Malazan great. I don't mind anyone else joining in either.

>>17233207
This is undeniable. Cnaiur by himself has more entertainment value than the entire Malazan series.

redpill me on the wheel of time books bros, are they as good as people say?

>>17237437
who says they're good? no one i've ever talked to

>>17237417
Its been quite some time since I've read Malazan and I honestly need to do a reread but I remember what really captivated me was how massive and rich the world felt and how all these different and intricate story threads were woven together into a huge tapestry of a plot. It is truly an epic fantasy in the most fundamental sense. It has an interesting magic system, great lore and a story told from wildly differing characters with different goals, morals and knowledge bases. I distinctly remember having moments of wonder when a seemingly small or irrelevant plot point was, sometimes entire books later, made part of a much bigger plot point

>Shera is the one to kill the Emperor because
>Shera gets an item in one book what it takes Lindon eight books to learn just because
I'm glad it's over.jpg

>>17237437
theyre a fucking slog to get through

>>17237571
Shera is such an awful character

>>17237437
they're a sword of truth ripoff, everything they do, sword of truth did a lot better

>>17237202
> tolkien is historically accurate
what did he mean by this
>>17237254
i’m an oldfag, i remember buying a storm
of swords when it first came out in bookstores. i wish he’d somehow managed to keep that early panache alive, maybe bringing the series to a swift end; rather than let it grow into the bloated pop culture abomination it’s become. sad!

>>17233184
>>17235013
Honestly, this makes Rhythm of War appear interesting. Because instead of generic swordsman fighting in """epic"" battles, we get a look at the psychology of the war and the truama that war breeds?
I've never read the book, but now I'm considering it.

>>17237590
EXTREMELY BASED. We need more Sword of Truth-posting

sword of shadows is the better series that starts with "sword of"

>>17234320
Tell me how it is. I read the author's guide to creating a religion and it was pretty interesting.

>>17237650
>what did he mean by this
look at this fool
he probably thinks the Iliad didn' happen

>>17237709
People fear Rahl

>>17233812
it becomes sci fi the very moment you set out to explain magic

>>17237701
i forgot how good those books are. loved em as a kid, still question what my uncle was thinking giving me a 1000pages of rape porn but glad he did

hey /ssfg/ can you give me some beginner recommendations for sci-fi/fantasy book other than the obvious such as LOTR or GOT

>>17237831
The Sword of Truth has always been a "So bad, it's Good" sort of thing for me. The stuff that happens is so hilarious that it has its own charm to it. It's time for some shitposting

>>17237571
is Shera the sword apprentice from the latter half of the first book? do they fug?

>>17237864
Shera isn't in/on Cradle.

Finally finished the old Conan stories. The last few were surprisingly good, and Red Nails I think is second only to the Hour of the Dragon for best Conan story.

Are any of the other Conan stories by other writers worth reading? I really like the whole civilization is doomed to decadence and decay motif Howard had. Do the later Conan authors do justice to this or should I just read other Howard stuff like Kull and Bran Mak Morn?

>>17233405
Either neuromancer or xenogenesis.

would you guys rather read cavemen versus wizards or modern military versus wizards?

>>17237944
>cavemen versus wizards
If comedy
>modern military versus wizards
If serious and well done

>>17237944
neither

>>17237987
fine, how about an original fresh take on a chosen dude who wields a sword and brings order to a chaotic pre-firearms world?

>>17237944
modern military versus wizards either turns into wizardwank or militarywank 99% of the time so definitely the former.

>>17237904
shit, I saw Lindon and thought that's what you guys were talking about

>>17233698
>incels coping again

everyone who ever did a serious martial art knows that technique wins against strength, practice wrestling muay thai,or jiujitsu and see how easily a woman can beat you

https://youtu.be/qW2oJbzrRXc
https://youtu.be/lGNyo9U_9pw
https://youtu.be/NG6xEGj-wZ8

>>17237854
Lord of Light by Zelazny is accessible and might get you into some older stuff. It's a fantasy story in a sci-fi setting where Hindu gods rule over a planet. Rendezvous with Rama by Clarke is a decent introduction to harder sci-fi as it's not too daunting and provides a fun story where astronauts have to explore a mysterious space object. Blindsight by Peter Watts is an example of much more modern sci-fi that also remains pretty hard. It's zany and has some cool ideas. Try some short stories with either Exhalation or Stories of Your Life and Others by Ted Chiang. He explores very concept-driven sci-fi and makes some very neat stuff. If you want to go deep, the thread standard Book of the New Sun is another science-fantasy novel, this time by Gene Wolfe (who you should look into eventually as he has written all sorts of goodies like The Fifth Head of Cerberus, Wizard Knight [which is a good straight-up fantasy story], Latro, and oodles of short stories) which takes place in a very far future and follows a member of a guild of torturers. Also, look at the dang charts in the OP.

>>17238016
I don't know how EE ends but Shera may meet Lindon. Blech.

>>17235435
>the misted mountains

>>17238032
it's the opposite actually

I'm pretty sure in malazan verse women are either equal to men or much closer in physical ability, and then there's the fact that people can ascend and become gods that are physically stronger etc.

Lassen for example goes around punching and kicking strong and skilled men to death casually

>>17237855
It's got a good core underneath the terrible writing, the world is interesting and all, but man those later books are literally a joke

>>17238209
NOT MY HECKIN COMMIEARINOS NOOO

> *gulp* here goes nothin'
> posting a paragraph from my fantasy novel for you esteemed anons to constructively critique.
> summary: semi-post-apocalyptic. the human world is dominated by the rule of evil Angels.
> one of the MCs has been captured and taken to a colony-city after her village was destroyed by marauders.

The refugees’ eyes were turned towards their knees, unseeing, unheeding, consumed by fear, praying to the Goddess that the glittering apparition had not come to sup upon their souls. But the urge to look, to see, overthrew the fear in Indrik’s breast. Her heart beating in her throat, she dared to raise her eyes, and gazed upon the metallic, splendid Thing that stood before them.

It was no Angel-in-Flesh, no ancient twisted being from the Land-Beyond-the-Clouds.
The thing was only human.
An old dotard in seraphic drag.

Yes, she saw, the thing was all too human: a Provisor. Perhaps one hundred fifty years of age, though surgically altered to appear far younger. One of the Honoured Few (so-called), a Noble Man (so-called), appointed by the Angels as their deputy, their pawn to rule over humankind: a figure of revulsion, a trussed-up mascot to carry out their vile orders against the human species.

A hideous senile in a sluttish costume, grinning almost apologetically after too long and too spoiled a life spent causing devastation to his human kin.

Beneath the elaborate armature of nimril struts propping up artificial wings, beneath softly respiring membranes fanning featherlike behind him, that face –– a horrible face. A sheepish grin, uncanny in its pallor. The Provisor's grin was almost pitiable to look at: despite its strangeness of its Angelic glamours, it was indeed the face of a human man, old and fragile, perverse and powdered, disfigured by the long-healed welts of the ivory plague and what looked like decades of addiction to the spruce caviar; and though the visage was hollow with age, its powdered cheeks were fattened by many long and luxurious human lifetimes worth’ of banqueting on delicacies of eel-flesh and translucent silverfish pâté. The deep, fissured wrinkles; the craggy, nimril-plated teeth; the milky, bluish gaze, augmented with delicate lenses like butterflies’ wings …

In exchange for his loyalty, his abasement, his supplication before the Vicious, an iskiber is rewarded with special benefits. Treasures, baubles. Delights of the flesh. Protheses of power to extend the body far beyond the abilities of ordinary humankind. For all these things, the iskibers were feared; and more than feared, hated––hated to their accursed marrow.

So immersed in this hideous spectacle––the skin-crawling decripitude of the thing's face against the alluring splendour of its costume––Indrik did not notice the Disciplinary striding towards her, bludgeon hefted to strike.

Best LGBT sff? So far I have:
>Terra Ignota
>Song of Achilles
>Gideon the Ninth

Honorable mention to the Dispossessed.

>>17238285
Bakker

>>17238266
God, that was bad on all accounts.
>The refugees’ eyes were turned towards their knees
Read that shit aloud. No reason for such a basic action to sound so fucking badly.
No reason at all to have the word "powdered" appearing twice in a single fucking paragraph.
>spruce caviar
>silverfish pate
You're fucking with us?
>the skin-crawling decripitude
>decripitude
...
>the skin-crawling decripitude of the thing's face against the alluring splendour of its costume
You spent 200 words describing the face while you got over the "costume" (I suppose those struts and artificial wings) in 8 words, or about a 300 words earlier. No one will know what the fuck the costume looked like by the time you get there.

>>17238266
Interesting premise but you are trying way too hard. It doesn't sound natural at all

>>17236770
I don't really know what's worthwhile to you. To me it was worthwhile because it was entertaining. I found it entertaining because I like stories where you don't have all the information up front and have to gradually figure out "mysteries" inherent in the setting, or figure out how stuff works. Malazan does this in spades, because it has very little introductory exposition to ease you into its setting. You get dropped in and bombarded with unfamiliar terms, characters don't stop to explain what they're talking about when they name drop stuff, and you just have to pick it up as you go. Again, I just happen to like this type of story, it makes me curious about the world and I end up getting sucked into it trying to learn more about it.

While the plot and setting of Malazan were reason enough for me to like it, it also had some great characters, and some of the best comedy I'd read in any fantasy series, which wasn't prepared for at all. I'd actually like to see Erickson try to wright comedy because I think he'd be good at it based on the material in Malazan.

If that sounds worthwhile, then I guess try and read it? It's really long though. 10 doorstopper books. And not really what I'd call "lite" reading.

Why is "fake bible" not a real fantasy sub-genre? I absolutely adored pic related, but you can only go back to the actual Greek Classics or the Bible or Beowulf to find this kind of stuff.

am I gonna have to write it myself?

>>17238266
Not as good as the sword of truth

>>17238444
>and some of the best comedy I'd read in any fantasy series
Trips of truth. Parts of Malazan had me laughing out loud and it managed to do so without feeling out of place with the dark and serious nature that colors the majority of the work

>>17238451
I adore this shit too
perhaps try Journey to the West?

Sanderson shill here.
Why did he get so bad at writing? He italicizes way too much, and he throws in an ellipsis every time someone talks.
What happened?

>>17238515
burn out

>>17220532
Ishuäl was found by the Dûnyain and not built by them. It might've been modeled after a nonman mansion (too late for the tutelage, though) but it was almost certainly built by humans.

>>17238515
Was he ever good though? I couldn't get past the first chapter of Way of Kings due to the mind-numbing YA prose.

>>17238535
It was a retreat for the kings family to hide in, which is why an anasurimbor was there, before the dunyain found him.

>>17238540
What is YA prose?
Not trying to argue, I just have a hard time identifying it rationally, I just get the vague smell of shit in my nostrils as I'm reading it.

>>17238564
YA = young adult. pedestrian. simplistic. written to entertain, to be consumed, not expressive of anything other than characters and plot, not provoking of deeper thought or reflection.

>>17238586
But how is that any better than Rothfuss circlejerking about his waifu or Herbert moralizing you about the right way to govern? "deeper thought" can often come off as preachy or quixotic.

>>17238451
I've been trying to write essentially Herodotus tier history for my stories to ground the world a bit. Got the history part down, but creation myths aren't the easiest thing to do especially when there's several races

>>17238515
Why is modulating your tone via punctuation and font bad?

>>17237944

>cavemen versus wizards
Could be kino if the wizards are revealed as fake but coming from a much advanced civilization, and their "magic" is actually tricks made with tech.

>>17238691

Also, the story has to be told from caveman point of view:

>and the wizard took hiw magic wand and pointed at Grug with it.
>they all heard thunder and before their eyes Grug fell, with blood pouring from her heart.
>smoke surrounded the wizard now and they could all smell it, the smell of demons and the sacred mountain...

>>17234420
>Also, the one time you have a female swordsman trying to fight like a man on the front lines during a siege, she gets the shit beat out of her and raped.
I'll read Malazan one of these days. Only the core books.

>>17238564
>I just get the vague smell of shit in my nostrils as I'm reading it.
answered your own question

>>17238705
>>17238691
reddit

>>17238811

:(

The Darkness that Comes Before was just as good as I remembered, perhaps more. My initial misgivings could've been a lag in getting used to Bakker's prose and the dozens of awful sounding names, factions, etc. thrown at you, the pseudo sillogisms with oblique profoundity, etc. I laughed maybe twice ("come, mother, some shade will flatter you") in 600 pages. The image of the holy war as a hammer was a nice touch I always liked.

My first impression of The Warrior Prophet was that it was slightly worse in polish and writing. This is sort of confirmed in the smallest of details and the behavior of the secondary characters. Sadly, they're starting to act and speak like caricatures of themselves, like Eleäzaras' first scene and his attitude through that little fight. Xerius' first scene didn't need that much depravity, it just served to introduce the next plot point by having his mother point to Kellhus. I guess the first book took its time in the introduction or reinforcing some quirks.
And then there are the small details, like Achamian "finding himself alone with the evening fire for the first time". Odd because the book starts with him travelling with the baggage train or setting up camp himself on several days (he probably built a fire then), and a scene not 20 pages earlier, where he's alone, by the fire, with Cnaiur who quickly leaves his side. Or how the "hammer" is dropped as a metaphor for the war. Small things a writer might forget and it's stuff like this you might pick or not (the first book might have been full of this awkward inconsistencies or I might have missed a few) but it gets me worried.
The plot I remember being quite engaging in all things Kellhus, so looking forward to it. Next chapter will be the library scene with Achamian using the Gnosis in earnest for the first time, one of my favorite descriptions of magic.

Man, Tigana is extremely comfy. Does it remain dialogue heavy character vignettes all the way through?

>>17238900
At some point it centers on the main characters more (the bard kid from the beginning just becomes secondary).
I couldn't stomach GGK's penchant for similes though. Also hated the virtue signalling. It's already a fairy tale, no need to make them into all weeping overemotiomal faggots.

>>17234078
>the only realistic warrior woman archetype is the mounted scythian-amazon warrior
There were only a couple of these

>>17238852
yeah not trying to be a dick or anything but it's defs reddit

>>17238895
xerius was funny

>>17238895
iirc he wrote WP and TTT pretty fast, so that might be why

>>17238895
>the first book might have been full of this awkward inconsistencies or I might have missed a few
you missed some.
>Sadly, they're starting to act and speak like caricatures of themselves
Well there was the whole emporer birdshit scene if i remember correctly.

but does this matter, if you never noticed it?

>>17239103
who is that supposed to be?

>>17239119
saubon interpretation by a random guy i found.

>>17239130
> DON"T TRUST HI––

>>17238705
Advanced technology being mistaken for magic (or ancient civilizations being advanced and their found technology being mistaken for magic) is probably my favorite trope of all time.

>>17235752
There have separate categories you retard

>>17239083
Yeah, originally what I figured. TDTCB took him several years, then he signed for the whole series and had to meet deadlines.
>>17239103
>emperor shit faced
That was one of his first scenes iirc, so he can't be acting like his own caricature if he's introduced just then. He's already established and hinted at the guy's character and the incest stuff. He takes a bath and think he's back to his normal self, his mom gifts him with a whore, it ends when she asks who noticed the spy. Next scene is Eleazaras' kidnapping the other sorcerer, bringing news of the spy. Xerius scene takes place in Momemn, the only portion taking place elsewhere while the whole part (a few chapters) is about "The March".
>does this matter, if you never noticed it?
It's sloppy. It makes you think the writer didn't have the full picture when he wrote it. But it happens. I just didn't notice them as much in the first book. Like the last chapter I read, where 3 different foreign untranslated words all start with "pede" (two types of whore and an unrelated flower's name). At one point he decided Esmenet was going to be interested in different languages and it's not greatly executed.
The characters becoming vehicles for plot development and behaving in cliches would be worse.

>>17238152
True, but it happens without the constant virtue signaling so it's fine

>>17237173
The first and final books of the Solar Cycle were written in 1970 and 2001, respectively, but are remain a single story with a tight plot and are completely thematically aligned. 'First four books' - pathetic. If you're going to write a series, have the good grace the finish it well. It's like having a wank without cum, bloody tease

>>17238048
Incredible reply, I agree with it all - will read Lord of Light when I finish re-reading Solar Cycle.

>>17239358
I read about some spin off short stories but I thought the cycle proper (starting with Shadow) was from the 80s.

>>17239601
>look up the game
>the protagonist is a woman
Did trannies even ruin good old fashioned dating sims?

>>17239639
dating sims with a woman as the MC are like 50 years old by now

>>17237907
https://www.blackgate.com/by-crom-some-conans-are-more-equal-than-others/

>>17238290
How much gay is in Bakker? Only thing stopping me from picking him up.

>>17239673
there's quite a lot of gay sex and stuff, it's usually not explicit and often violent rape that is horrific

>>17237855
? They're not bad at all? Yeah they're no Tolkien and the author makes his own politics clear but that's his message. cant hold it against him. They're good books, maybe even great honestly

What are some good 60s-80s scifi books like Dune and Ringworld?

>>17238515
>Why did he get so bad at writing?

Since the beginning. He doesn't care about stylized prose.

Why is this shit so stilted?

The protags move to a place, a bad thing happens, so they move on to the next place, repeat.
And that's all that happens for 800 pages.

It started so strong, but just got worse as the book went on.

Why do trannys want to see women fighting and dying in war?

>>17238341
>>17238368
Thanks for the feedback frens. Any other thoughts and suggestions on improving this are more than welcome.

>>17239896
They hate and are jealous of real women.

I just finished reading Rhythm of War.
What did I feel about it?

>>17240032
You disliked it because it was exposition heavy and somewhat repetitive. You did enjoy the action sequences when they occurred and the minor character viewpoints. You're somewhat divided on the major plot beats though, and generally wish there had been more Szeth.

>>17237666
It's really not as interesting as you're thinking it is.

>>17240221
>>17240221
>>17240221

>>17240151
>so what I thought I would do was save snippets of people agreeing with me that [thing] sucks to repost endlessly on any given branch of this Mongolian horse castrating forum like a sane unobsessed person

>>17240223
>starting the new thread before this one is at post limit

>>17240223
Fuck off retard, this one isn't even at bump limit.

>>17235460
main character is a proud cuck, as well as the author's self insert

>author self insert
When has this ever worked.

>>17240450
If by worked you mean "sold well" then constantly. If by worked you mean "increases the artistic value" then probably a handful of times

>>17239661
Thanks

>>17239873
Is it only 800 pages? It seemed like more.

Why was a new thread made?

>>17241180
That OP wanted to feel special and make a thread, so the idiot made it too early.