/lit/ - Literature

Joseph Heller's novel made after Catch-22, Something Happened, is all about this. However, don't expect the comedy you get in Catch-22, it is very sober and depressing.

Anything by Douglas Copeland

DFW's The Pale King

>>1720909

This, but it's Coupland isn't it? Microserfs is pretty much definitive in this genre.

Slightly different, and a lot weirder, try The Domino Men, by Johnathon Barnes. It's kind of about the British civil service.

Nicholson Baker, Fermata is also sort of about offices, but with time travel ad voyeurism, sort of.

Oh, and Bright Lights, Big City by Jay McInerny - lots of office related stuff in there. Sort of.

How to Succeed In Business Without Really Trying.

It has an updated foreword as of this year I believe. A nice similar book, not about office life but about trying to get ahead socially (which seems to be endemic in a lot of cubicle farms) is Donleavy's "The Unexpurgated Code". Goldratt's Goal is also decent for a stressed out 9 to 5er, as well as being a good educational book.

Everything by Franz Kafka.
Then quit your fucking job and be a real human being.
Do what you love. If what you love involves sitting at a desk and filing paperwork, well, you're already dead.

Thanks, everyone!

>>1720921
So, what do you do, Anon?

>>1720921
>Then quit your fucking job and be a real human being.
How much does being a real human being pay these days? I've been a fake human for about 6 years now and I'd very much like to become a real human being.

But seriously, what is your job?

>>1720932

it shouldn't be a question of 'how much' but rather 'is it enough for food and shelter?'

Nice thread.

Personally after 10 years working I've decided to go back to school to do my masters. Really it's a great excuse to not work for a few years.

I want to live, but damn it's either difficult, or the man tricks you into thinking it's difficult.

Perhaps off-topic but I've started to wonder: should our work be something we contribute to society, or should we just do whatever we want to get by?

As an example, should you write banking software because it's needed or should you travel around the world doing odd jobs and having a great experience?

Bad example maybe. You feeling me?

>>1720940

i feel you brohem

>>1720936
"...and a social life/recreation so you don't go insane, saving up so you're not living hand to mouth and rainy days, other basic amenities like clothing and heating..."

>>1720940
The fantasy is that all jobs which exist are necessary in some way. The only reason why you are paid is because, supposedly, you contribute to society. Jobs that people tend not to go into tend to be somewhat complex, repetitive, highly selective jobs (pharm, surveying, stuff like that), but they get paid pretty well. But then there are jobs like Anaesthetist that are just kinda horrible.

>>1720940
OP here. I feel you. I've actually thought a lot about this.

I believe that ideally, one should identify one's particular talents and skills and use them for the good of society. That's what I used to do: I had a job I liked, at which I was good and which benefited people. The only problem? It didn't pay the bills. So I got an office job which, incidentally, I find to be a lot more beneficial for society but which doesn't make the best use of my abilities.

But it's okay. I'm learning a lot of new things ("transferable skills", so to say) and I can still do my old job in the evenings.

>>1720954
>sellout

Find a job that can do both. I skipped out on a law degree to go into elementary education/library sciences, although I may end up in journalism. None of which pays as well as law starting out, but after a while they can get pretty comfortable in terms of pay.

I would rather work a job I love the bare minimum 40-50 hours a week than a job I have 50-60 hours a week, no matter how much more I would be making.

>>1720936
Yes, but what is your job?

>>1720940
>should our work be something we contribute to society, or should we just do whatever we want to get by?
If you are not creating something or helping people in some way, your job sucks.

Examples of jobs which help people:
Math Teacher
Electrician
Web Developer
Social Worker
Painter

Examples of jobs which don't help people:
Corporate Advertising
Government Bureaucrat
Sales
Military Infantry

I mean these are just off the top of my head so I could be wrong. I'm just trying to provide a frame for my first claim.

>>1720948
>>1720954

I guess if you're getting paid, someone is willing to say that you're contributing.

Sometimes I wonder if perhaps we're suckered into working for the man (I'm 30 it's just late and I can't think of a better term at the moment) when in reality it's far simpler than is made out.

For example I've been reading Dangerous Places by Robert Young Pelton and it makes me wonder if it wouldn't be easier and far more fulfilling to just sell everything, pack a good pack and walk the Earth like Caine from Kung Fu.

Microserfs by Douglas Coupland
The Company by Max Barry

One more thing... ESCAPE. BECOME A FIREFIGHTER OR SOMETHING, GET THE HELL OUT OF THAT OFFICE.

>>1720965

I don't buy your distinctions there. What good is a web developer if there's no advertising or sales? And like it or not the world needs troops.

I don't think you're qualified to judge who is worth something and who isn't.

>>1720970
If a man dwells on the past, then he robs the present. But if a man ignores the past, he may rob the future. The seeds of our destiny are nurtured by the roots of our past, grasshopper.

I am really, really curious whether people who post in this thread actually have jobs.

>>1720965

one might argue that militaristic infantry do help people. maybe in a way too big for you to see...

>>1720965
>military infantry

oh lawd son, you done goofed

don't mean to derail the thread but you civilian faggots need to chill out with this shit. I bet you think all we do is kick down doors and shoot innocent, helpless little arab civilians who just want to follow the law and live a peaceful life. well, we don't fucker

things I have personally done to help people:

>exterminated feral dogs causing health problems and property damage
>developed impromptu hospital for children who had been inside of a building hit by artillery
>built shelters for ungrateful sand niggers
>convoy containing foreign aid, food, medical supplies, etc.
>donated my own money to charities because many army units highly encourage this

so fuck your shit, I'm tired of hearing civilians bitch about how the military doesn't do anything. some of us have secret security clearances to deal with threats that you aren't even allowed to know about. enjoy believing what the news media tells you and making decisions based on things you couldn't possibly being educated on

I will agree that the army is too big, full of welfare queens, etc. but still, without us you'd be in poor shape whether your liberal sensibilities can believe it or not

personal days by ed park

>>1720980

10+ years as a programmer. But looking for other options (while doing my masters in CS, go figure).

>>1720986
>I'm a murderer for hire! Give me respect! I kill people for money!

>>1720986

Well said.

Don't worry, thread was derailed long before your post.

>>1720986
>without us you'd be in poor shape

I lol'd hard. How so? If we just pulled out of the middle east entirely (including friendly countries) and let them eat themselves for a decade or so while keeping our borders airtight, we wouldn't have any issues from that area at all. That would effect us any way. And even if we didn't, we could still trim back monstrous sections of military funding to no ill effect. Who are we arming up against? The cold war ended 20 years ago, and republicans need that mentality to continue their war profiteering (although the Dems certainly get something out of it as well). No one in the developed world (the only people we need to worry about militarily) is going to declare war on the US. And even if they did, our training is better, not to mention we sold them their weapons in 90% of the cases anyway. Weapons they then used to massacre their own citizenry or neighboring countries for resources (East Timor, for example).

The US is stuck in 1960. We have far more to worry about from a digital/information attack than a literal, physical one.

>>1720911
>>1720911

>>1720976
I'm definitely not in a position to say who is helping people and who isn't, as we can see that my list is incorrect.

>>1720986
I know that military jobs are difficult/important and I'm not one of those "fuck the troops" people -- good friend of mine is heading to Afghanistan soon in some Army Transpo unit. I'm not trying to create a debate about the current war situation. National guardsmen are helpful - I think people going overseas to kill other people is not helpful enough to justify the cost, but that's my opinion and I'm aware that there are plenty of valid arguments which will easily invalidate my own opinion.


My point is that sitting in an office cube working as an office administrator at Bitchcorp sucks ass. I've done it before, and I don't want to do it again. I don't like the people who do that job because they don't seem to care about other people. I don't think it does anything good for the world, and I want to change that by setting an example of not working there anymore.

>>1720994
> The US is stuck in 1960. We have far more to worry about from a digital/information attack than a literal, physical one.

Are you serious? Get off the blogs and read some actual books on geopolitics before your digital balls get even sillier.

>>1720994
except for the part where I'm not allowed to tell you because it's classified information. I realize that anybody could use that excuse and you'd never know if there was a real threat or not, but my point is that *it's entirely possible* that the biggest threats to american citizens don't make it in the news or whatever faggoty blogs you read

you are not in the military, you have no knowledge of what happens in the war zone on a day to day basis and you are not qualified to speak on such matters because the news is full of shit and your leaders are lying to you. or are they? you don't know, so you can't say

>>1721003
>a bunch of made up bullshit
Yeah. Proof or fuck off, murikan.

Cube Dweller here, just a thought that I've had in the past when my mind has gone on one of its many wanders through this subject area - it sure would be great if we could all go and 'live' our lives, seeing all the beauty there is to offer. But then, who will stay behind to keep it all running for you?

To want to drop out of society and go doing whatever the shit you want is a beautiful ideal but at the same time incredibly selfish, if you think about it. You are refusing to contribute so that you can go off and indulge yourself in your own pleasures.

I sound like a killjoy, I know. But it's just one of the things my mind has thought of over the years. Doesn't change the fact that I'd love to do it, to drop everything and just go off.

>>1721003
>the news is full of shit and your leaders are lying to you
>my shit is classified

>YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO HAVE AN OPINION SO BE QUIET
thread destroyed

>>1721003
What makes you think they're being honest to you? If you're a grunt you will be lied to. You are being used as a tool to be conditioned for a specific purpose: killing other human beings on demand. You need it to be righteous - you don't want to be a mercenary for an oil company who kills farmers because oil is on their land and they won't sell (a made up example), so a military would have to convincingly sell to the troops that the people there are in serious help of some heroes and there are really evil men there who are actually also a national threat to YOUR children and your friends children - now you're more encouraged to shoot at them and won't feel so bad about it.

Maybe you disagree with me, but you are very cocksure about the information you receive and you assume we are about what receive and assume we believe.

>>1721007
>You are refusing to contribute by dropping out of society
I quit my office job filing papers and typing up bullshit on the computer to go be a fisherman. Which do you think makes a bigger contribution to society? Which occupation do you think consists of happier, saner people?

>>1721003
Not that anon, but dude. That's nothing to be proud of. You're basically telling them that there's a part of the power that uses public funds from a government elected by the public to do stuff you don't tell the public. You're saying that it's a good thing that they lay to their faces and keep information from them.
A country is the people that form it, there shouldn't be powers doing stuff without their consent, no matter what the people in power likes or not.

Also, that's the way dictators think, "we're doing this without consulting the country because we know what's good for them"...

>>1721009
I'm not cocksure about anything, that's my point. the little guys like you and me aren't allowed to know what's really going down, but even I know a lot more than civilians and that little bit makes me apolitical because only a few people in the world can know the truth on a planet where most people never leave their home country for extended periods of time. I get told to do stuff and I don't know why. then civilians get told about the stuff I did and they don't know why I did it either, but they act like they do with no justification

>>1721014
>I get told to do stuff and I don't know why
I admire your faith in your leaders

it seems many of us do not share it

>>1721015

Which is too bad, considering we voted for them.

>>1721015
>state that I don't believe everything my leaders say
>nice faith in your leaders, bro

welp I hope that bird didn't shit on you and it flew way the fuck over your head

>>1721010

That's a fine profession bro. I'm referring more to the folks who don't want to do anything. Just wandering around seeing the world but never working a constant job. Just doing 'odd jobs' so that they can live hand to mouth as they go.

It's a romantic idea, but as I said, selfish. What you've done however, is admirable.

>>1721022
I'm not the one who chose to work for liars doing things for reasons which I don't understand

Either way, it's clear that this eagle of yours is shitting on everyone in this thread

>>1721025
How is it selfish? If you work enough to feed yourself then you're striking an even balance.

Welfare is selfish. Working enough to support yourself ISN'T.

>>1721029
you are now aware that the corporation you work for pay taxes to support the military and that you a cog in the same government machine, just without guns

>>1721025

Surely there's a middle ground.

You can travel the world and contribute (teach, build, help) without having what is considered a normal job.

And there there's this:

>>1721031

I'm not convinced we owe society anything. Perhaps that's just a lie we're told to keep us producing worthless shit.

There's certainly a meme that says if you're not working as hard as you can you're somehow not contributing.

I'm not saying one way or another- I'm yet to figure it out myself.

>>1721036
>mfw two typos turned my post into nigger grammar

>>1721036
YOU are now aware that I quit that corporation and that I pay taxes because I enjoy having things like policemen and schools

Most I can do is not vote for assholes but I am only one man

saging because our personal details are way off-topic

>>1721031

It's selfish in that you are working purely to support yourself. You're not working because you want to give something back to society and the world, or because you enjoy the profession. And when you're only working for yourself, as a means to an end to allow you to carry on doing whatever it is you're enjoying, well, you may as well have stayed in your cubicle.

>>1721051
>It's selfish in that you are working purely to support yourself.
That. Isn't. Selfish.

You're WORKING to support yourself. Why work harder to support some asshole CEO who doesn't work at all?

>>1721054

When did I ever say anything about working for a corp?

Go be a fisherman, a fireman, anything, something, for fucks sakes. Something good that contributes to society, that does something positive, a job that can be enjoyed for its moral values. Something that you would stick with for life.

Anything better than being a god damn bum who picks fruit while trekking across Asia. Great, you've picked some fruit and seen some pretty places. That's really stuck it to the man. All the evil in the world will crumble now.

What I'm saying is that if you're going to quit doing the shitty soul-destroying office jobs that most automatons are quite happy with, then at least do something useful with your life. Be the change you want to see in the world rather than taking the lazy way out.

>>1721038
Beto Mansur até aqui?

>>1721066
>he thinks "corporation" means "office job"

>>1721066
>implying humans are automatically obligated to work so that other people are benefited

nice extreme communism bro, the motherland would be proud

meanwhile in reality where nobody gives a shit about such high-falutin ideals as "I'm gonna contribute to society ma!" and we're all in a race to survive as comfortably as possible, your theory doesn't hold much water

holding ideals is rather hard job ja

that's why we have social engineering. the drones can do whatever they are not invited unless self invited

>>1721000
>>1721003
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>>1721015
>>1721021
>>1721022
>>1721029
>>1721036
>>1721046

>trolledsoftly.jpg

Revolutionary Road by Richard Yates. It deals with middle-class malaise in general, but there's also a great section about a guy working in a boring office job, my favourite part of the novel.

Read Fight Club :)