/lit/ - Literature

>>17206882
>as a disabled person it makes me seethe
...

>>17206882
I have never heard a convincing rebuttal to antinatalism. The only response approximating a a rebuttal would be some affirmation of life, which still feels incomplete.

>>17206895
It doesnt make a convincing argument either. The whole thing is silly and people getting worked up about it are silly too.

>>17206895
>suffering isn't bad
Antinatalism debunked

>>17206902
>It doesn't make a good argument either

Oh, i think that you either not smart or didn't read at all.

>>17206911
>Just suffer bros, it worthwhile!

>>17206895
Second this.

>>17206889
Kek, the dude clearly is not the smart thing around.

>>17206919
But it is? That's literally the lesson from the passion of christ?
Assuming that Christ is a model to be followed, we also should have no problem sacrificing ourselves to save humanity. Of course, we are no Christ, so our suffering is much lower and we save mankind just a little, but the principle remains

>>17206972
Holy shit, I've forgot that lit is full of thoses coping religious type, kind of pointless to argue with someone like that.

>>17206972
okay, lets say we should all be like Jesus from the passion of the christ. sure. good movie. where does that relate to reproducing other beings into "suffering."

>>17206972
Religious explanation is just a way of coping, bro, bring real and rational arguments to the table, not "muh bible said that"

>>17206911
>>17206919
Life is great though, what are you fags on about?

>thinly veiled bait thread

>>17207002
>Life is great though, what are you fags on about?

>>17206996
Why?

>>17207016
It is. The Sublime is the only thing approaching meaning in this universe, and thst you cannot experience it makes you defective. Im terribly sorry anon.

Also consent isn't real.

>>17207002
Scientifically speaking, it depends, if your brain is hardwire in a way to be pessimistic, than no, life is not worthy because of the suffering, and if you hardwire to be optimistic, than yes, suffering is just a price for the good things in life. So it's pointless to argue, some people will be draw to antinatalism because does have good points and hard arguments to refute, a rational pessimistic one surely will become a antinatalist, for a optimistic raitonal one, probably doesn't care or just go cope mode.

>>17207029
>Consent is not real

Found the rapist nigger.

>>17207033
>scientifically speaking
You still have to assume that notions like "suffering" and "consent" are meaningful, and since I'm yet to meet an anitnatalist who wasn't a positivist the argument doesn't make any sense since using an arbitrary framework to judge another arbitrary framework is meaningless.

>>17207029
I can have good time.
>The Sublime
lol. But does this justify natlism? Antinatlism seems far easier to defend than the antithesis

>>17207035
He is right, though.

>>17207047
Seems irrelevant

>>17206882
>They would be fine with force sterilisation of the subgroup I am in
What's a term for the phenomenon of disingenuously pulling a subclause of an intention out like this? Equivalent to saying: chlorine is poisonous to dogs, chlorine hates dogs specifically.

I'm not an antinatalist but this poster makes me walk in that direction.

>>17206987
>>17206991
>>17206996
Man, I was really hoping we could have a higher level discussion here, but ok. Let's go full materialist
We can't possibly find a ultimate reason for anything we do inside the material universe, because that always leads to nihilism or hedonism, both of which lead to antinatalism.
Despise that, given that you replied to my post, I'm assuming that you are alive and aware of your suffering condition. If you have had ample opportunity to kill yourself but haven't, I'm assuming you prefer your own life to your own death. Why is that? Doesn't the same reason apply to future generations?
Also, if antinatalism was widespread enough, it would obviously lead to extinction of mankind, which even relatively sane materialists agree is a bad thing for us

Pro tip: the Bible teaches stuff that works in a materialistic level too, even if you don't understand why

>>17207039
It's not arbitrary, the reality gives all we need, we can make cope philosophies to justify something, but in the end, if makes you brain bad, then it is bad, nothing more.

>>17207053
Seething trannies phenomenon.

>>17207041
>But does this justify natlism? Antinatlism seems far easier to defend than the antithesis
My point is that neither idea is a fortress because neither has any actual solid ground to stand on, but since at least natilism offers people the possibility of choice and meaning most people will naturally go with it.

And those that receive life and don't want it have my permission to die. Its not a christmas jumper, I won't be offended.

>>17206911
>>17207002
These. Imagine not being able to enjoy life's highs and lows.

I don't worry about trying to put forward and defend arguments for antinatalism anymore. I think the biological impetus to procreate is so strong that most people will simply not be able to break free of it; even if they cannot actually procreate and have to cope through things like pornography, they still have that drive within them that makes them incapable of accepting the inverse. And if you're capable of breaking out of it, then you probably don't have any reason to argue with me about the subject to begin with. So why bother? You'll accomplish more by supporting things like abortion and keeping up the "pro-choice" narrative and making women think they're liberating themselves or whatever the fuck nonsense they believe. Either way it's another life spared from existence.

>>17207068
As far as I know, the great majority don't have A mean for life, they just put other people in the world without a thought, just like a animal, so yeah, i don't think that works...

>>17207081
Based Benatarposter.

>>17207080
YOU can enjoy it, but how could you know IF YOUR CHILD might enjoy? Well... No, Right? Then you're being a real motherfucker tô your child then.

>>17207081
60 million babies killed since Roe v. Wade, by the way. And how many more prevented through contraception? Countless millions. This is how you make a difference in the world and decrease suffering, not by dumb internet spats.

>>17207096
And why should he care?

>>17207060
>I'm assuming you prefer your own life to your own death. Why is that?

I have things I look forward to, and people who depend on me.

>Doesn't the same reason apply to future generations?

If they were to already exist and share my sentiment, yes. If they are still to be born, than the question is whether my reasons are true justifications. Because my reasons are enough for me to toil on with my little life, is not enough for me to bring other sensitive beings into the world all willy nilly.

It is not satisfactory to me that my reasons for living are entirely formed post hoc. Why should I or anyone be justified in reproduction? What is so important about making more people besides the economic maintenance of those already alive?

>>17207068
>And those that receive life and don't want it have my permission to die. Its not a christmas jumper, I won't be offended.

>>17207087
And they have my permission to die.

>>17207067
Subhelpful, but thanks for the (you).

>>17207068
>And those that receive life and don't want it have my permission to die. Its not a christmas jumper, I won't be offended.
You can't support natalism without making light of suicide in this way, and acting like it's a joke. That's something I've definitely learned from these threads.

>>17207109
?????? Are you dumb?

>>17207112
Because it her fucking life that at stakes, you're just fucking gambling with her life.

>>17207133
Why would you ask that?

>>17207121
>LMAO just kill yourself bros

Kek, people just get tired of say shit all the time?

>>17207136
Why should he care more about his own particular child, then any other child in the world? There are children suffering and dying every minute of every day, why shouldn't we care about them equally as much as our own offspring?