/lit/ - Literature

Unless you're mentally ill, the reality you perceive with your senses is the closest you're going to get to reality.

>lul

>>17185943
Unironically just don't resist.

>>17185943
Watch blade runner and
>revel in your time

>>17185943
>how do I cope?
you don't

>>17185954
I was unclear on this. It’s not so much my perception of reality that I don’t trust, I know everything I see and hear is “there”, but those aspects of reality are being altered through propaganda. To the extent that my opinions and actions may be manipulated if I remain passive.

>can’t accept that the only way to resist is to shut eyes and ears to all and every bit of media/information in my surroundings and disappear from the world.

this is retarded and unreasonable. instead, elevate your powers of discernment to recognize propaganda when you see it, learn if it benefits you, who is getting paid for it, is it benign or nefarious...

>>17186062
>recognize propaganda

>>17186062
you have not read this book

You cope by realizing that Ellul was a cringe turbo-prot calvinist.

Isn't propaganda just ideology for babies? just stop believing it

i deal with it by not reading dopey books that whine about life

>>17186079

well, maybe you're screwed if you can't see

>>17186086

yeah i have, i just already went through my ellul and bernays despair phase. acting like an emu will make you more powerless

>>17186112
t. "enlightened" BAP reader

>>17186146
Propaganda is made to be unrecognizable.

>>17185943
Life's short. It's not that hard to ignore the media.

>>17186157
>not that hard to ignore the media
as he browses the internet

>>17186157
I would disagree and even if it weren’t, it’s hard to ignore all the people around you who are not ignoring media

>>17186151
fuck is a bap

>>17186146
You obviously have to try your best to discern what’s propaganda and what’s not, I just fear that there is so much, that it’s likely to fail. And if you don’t, you end up as an individual isolated from the crowd. I think that if you do this, you tend to develop into the “emu” direction which, as you already pointed out, doesn’t help. But where do you go from there? Let’s say you are not hopeless? To solve this problem by just “leaving the Ellul phase behind me” seems like an admission of defeat. You move on and how long until you get sloppy in your propaganda screening? And then you end up especially vulnerable because you think you know all the tricks.

Pick the propaganda you like and roll with it. The chaos of the modern world means truth is drowned in constant noise. Someone out there is garaunteed to be shilling a message that appeals to you now that anyone can put out content accessible to the masses.

It's all propaganda, always has been. Even the most innocuous shit.

>>17186193
some frog twitter guy who wrote a book thats a 9th grade reading of nietzsche but repackaged for /pol/ reactionaries obsessed with masculinity

>On Twitter, BAP uses a multi-layered style, including post-ironic far-right memes alongside homoerotic images of bodybuilders
this is on his wikipedia and pretty much sums it up

>>17186357
I don't follow that gay shit

>>17186355
I agree and I fucking hate it

>>17186355
That's just >>1718596 with more words

>>17186435
Sorry I meant >>17185968

>>17186087
sounds based

>>17186087
>>17186493
Sounds way too simple

Just become schizophrenic, we see the truth

>>17185954
based and naivepilled

>>17186521
can confirm

>>17185943
>I can’t accept that the only way to resist is to shut eyes and ears to all and every bit of media/information in my surroundings and disappear from the world.
It really is a pretty comfy life, anon, but most people will just stop talking to you if you can not discuss such things, so it is not for everyone.

>>17185943
I don't understand the point of obsessing over politics if you're an average Joe. If you're a YouTuber, local politician, or have some other position with a significant following it makes sense. Go ahead and preach where you can make a difference. But for the average pleb? I simply can't comprehend it. My uncle comes over and starts rambling about random ass shit at family meetings and makes everyone uneasy. Who the fuck cares that much? What can you change as an average pleb? I don't mean to demoralize, and you should certainly be well read and informed about politics if it interests you, but there's a fine line between that and obsessing over it to the point of punishing yourself and those around you for no good reason. Just chill, bro.

>>17185943
Why? Just determine the correct answer. It's simple really.

I couldn't make it through that book. It has a bunch of interesting passages, but his field of scope is so wide as to make it useless. I may as well not even have read a word since everything is propaganda, he essentially makes it oxygen.

>>17186707
of course it's a problem for a filthy hylic like you

>>17185943
‘pataphysics pill dude

>>17186745
No, I'm most definitely a psychic.

>>17186685
When it comes to politics I am already beyond caring because as u say it is completely useless to care about it (for me at least), but it is so much more than that. It’s the accepted way of life that is constantly being encouraged and enforced by social pressure, media etc.

>>17186828
>It’s the accepted way of life that is constantly being encouraged and enforced by social pressure, media etc.
Also impossible to change, thus pointless to worry about. You do you, king.

>>17186840
The thing is, the main job of propaganda is to keep the actions of population aligned to the necessities of those in charge of the propaganda machine. And since these necessities change, propaganda “encourages” the change u say is impossible and interferes with me being me. I just think that there is little enough free will as it is and I don’t want the last shred being taken from me by some greedy technique.

>>17186327

figure it out yourself. whenever the more evil aspects of propaganda like the monoculture, warfare, and technique take too much control of your brain, i've gotten to the point where i can just laugh at it. there is plenty of mental conditioning that we can't avoid, we still have some aspect of free will. you've already conditioned yourself to be "isolated" by reading that book, so you might as well worry about it less and accept it

>>17186945
Thanks for the input. Laughing at it is a good way to start not worrying, but I don’t think I’m going to accept it

>>17185968
Imagine being that comfy

What is even the epistemic difference between propagating something and simply arguing for a position? Is it a matter of transparency in your intentions? Is it a matter of bilateral engagement as opposed to soapboxing? By making a thread, OP clearly has not rejected all outside input, or at least wants to have an effect on others via whining.

A major fraction of people hate propaganda however it is defined. But they don't advertise that fact for the very reason that in rejecting propaganda, they reject the very means by which ideas spreads. Combined with the existential crisis of not being able to change the collective system, nothing improves. But the desire to change the system is to cause propaganda in the first place. You wind up taking on a philosophy of "if you can't beat em, join em" and root for or create the version of propaganda which most benefits you. Candor erodes and the cycle continues.
The best way to rebel might be to never comply with anything, but no matter what the solution, it has to spring organically from your own will rather than being learned. But the issue in this thread is there is no possibility of organic thought as propaganda evolves and invades, so no matter what, you're giving in and thereby not attacking the core. At a certain point, I always circle back to having faith in my own ability to appraise the bullshit factor of an idea on grounds of objective moral or tribal standards. Also, reforming the advertising industry to be less psychologically manipulative and more plain would go a long way. But the more I advise, the more it can be taken for propaganda!

tl;dr "Propaganda" must be delegated to connote exclusively that which is deceptive rather than referring to influential factors in ALL of discourse, or of course there will be no escape. Grassroots discussion can be regarded as distinct from it, and protected for a time from subversion the more each participant values honor.

we've created illusions through propaganda that makes it seem like the people of the world are more similar to each other than they are, and this will have disastrous consequences.

none of it has any effect on me, either ignore it or having fun watching how transparent it all is

>>17185943
>I can’t accept that the only way to resist is to shut eyes and ears to all and every bit of media/information in my surroundings and disappear from the world
I started doing this when I read Ellul last year, and my life has honestly never been better. You will feel good, positive, empowered, and more connected than ever with yourself, your loved ones, and your immediate surroundings. Just do it, and you'll see what I mean.

>>17186146
>>17186062
The whole point of the book is that recognizing propaganda is no defense against it. You must disconnect.

>>17186172
Get better friends. Refuse to discuss such issues with them. My friends hardly ever talk about this kind of stuff.

>>17186707
He specifically says that not everything is propaganda. Pair him with Gramsci and you will get it. Propaganda are the specific methods by which a social class exerts its hegemony over society.

>>17189110
>tl;dr "Propaganda" must be delegated to connote exclusively that which is deceptive rather than referring to influential factors in ALL of discourse, or of course there will be no escape. Grassroots discussion can be regarded as distinct from it, and protected for a time from subversion the more each participant values honor.
Filtered.

>>17189110
It is very hard to propagate bullshit, so most propaganda at its core contains some truth. The issue is how its layed out and how I am supposed to react to that "truth". And yes I do hate the methods used and the technique itself, even if at some point it appears on the same medium as genuine new ideas (which propaganda doesnt create, because it needs existing sentiment that it can latch on to). It just seems reasonable to hate the boot thats trying to step on my neck.

Appraising bullshit makes a lot of sense, if indeed we are dealing with bullshit. If not, you are still correct and holding on to yourself is even more important.

>>17185943
Read Bernays as well.

Only thing I can think of though is create just as powerful propaganda. It’s a war of policies and procedures now and propaganda will sway the masses ways that allow us to change law. It’s a grisly world

>>17186357
>reactionaries
>obsessed with masculinity
Your post contains enough information about you that I now know the diameters of your wrists.

>>17191170
share with the class

>>17189143
>none of it has any effect on me
kek

>>17189143
lmao