/lit/ - Literature

>>17168777
Shills for Biden

>>17168782
This. The old and failed tactic of voting as left as you can, has lead to nothing.

https://youtu.be/xZy0rnXSpnw?t=787

Why do rightists think that disagreeing with someone is the same as hating them?

>>17168853
After being called every name in the book and being equated to the most horrific criminals in human history, they are bound to make an assumption

>>17168777
No, like him as always. It's conservatives who hate him, not just now but always have

>>17168777
Wym. Chomsky's great. He was willing go stand publicly against Neoliberal Hegemony when it made no practical sense to do so. Hard to imagine a more influential living thinker.

>>17168777
He's not sufficiently revolutionary for them. His realism seems to offend them. Chomsky understands the relative uselessness of elections so he tells people to just vote against the worst candidate, as leftists have long done. Real change is an ongoing struggle that has little to do with elections but leftists today seem to have forgotten this and so they've turned on him for saying that people should vote Biden while continuing the lay the groundwork for a better future.

>>17168777
he's a fucking JEW

>>17168777
>Neoliberal Hegemony
No such thing, get out of your room dumb incel

>>17168777
They're 19 year old twitter zoomers who don't have an understanding of politics beyond whatever Marxist pamphlet they read.

>>17169239
What do you mean there's no such thing? The neoliberals run the US, the UK, Japan, Australia, much of Europe.

>>17168777
they finally realized he's just another fake celebrity propped up to distract them from real change
im sure theyve moved onto another one who will disappoint them again

>>17168777
Too much nuance, not enough brute-caveman force and rallying against hierarchies.

>>17169243
this

>>17168815
Trump vetoed the bipartisan passed bill to end US involvement in Syria. He pulled troops out of Syria which lead to death of Kurds and Turkey's push into Syria. He killed Soleimani. He put in conservative supreme court justices. etc. etc. etc. Do you really think not voting was the right choice?

>>17169248
>The neoliberals run the US, the UK, Japan, Australia, much of Europe.
Imagine thinking this while living under 4 years of cheeto Hitler

>>17168777
He didn't know what Latinx was and basically said "that will never catch on"

>>17169272
>Trump vetoed the bipartisan passed bill to end US involvement in Syria.
Involvement in Yemen* sorry

>>17169272
>He pulled troops out of Syria which lead to death of Kurds
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

>>17169272
I prefer direct action on the part of the people
We shouldn’t ask anything of them anymore except to step down.

>>17169288
I mean you wouldn't care if you were a tankie or right wing retard (same thing really) but for butterfly they are the only people in the world who are doing her favored democratic autonomous neighborhoods.

>>17169273
Lmao Trump is a Neoliberal though. He only pretends to be a populist. Apparently you fell for it. Comical

>>17169296
Why not direct action and also save the lives of the Kurds/Yemenis? You can do both. It takes 15 minutes to mail in and vote democrat.

>>17169298
WE GOTTA LEAVE THE TROOPS IN SYRIA!!!!!!!!!!! THEY'RE KILLING THE
<checks notes>
THE KURDS!!!!!!!!!!!!

>>17169298
So in what way though? Erdogan killed some Kurds? Our other guys, ISIS, killed some Kurds?
We caused this clusterfuck. The sooner troops and agents are pulled out the better.

>>17169301
Neoliberals aren't exempt from populism.

>>17169296
As the Yemeni children look at the US bomb's landing on their school bus they will go out thinking at least Butterfly had direct action.

>>17169305
>and vote democrat.
Do you honestly not remember Obama allowed the invasion?
The State Department and Pentagon are running that show anyway. Establishment politicians are practically hands free

>>17169315
Turkey wants all the Kurds dead. The only thing keeping them alive is US presence in the region. You pull troops out. All kurds are slaughtered. It's that simple. As soon as he pulled out they started killing but the US decided to leave some troops after literally every one called including his cabinet called him a retard for letting our allies almost get slaughtered.

>>17169336
>You pull troops out. All kurds are slaughtered. It's that simple.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

>>17169329
Is Obama going to veto a bill that both Republicans and Democrats passed? A bill that Trump's own cabinet told him to sign? Is Obama going to put conservative supreme court justices in? This type of entitled first world it doesn't effect me so I don't care mentality is embarrassing and childish.

>>17169322
If the people had taken direct action a fewer years ago, the troops would have come home, the Saudis would not have a beefed up military.

How would the Saudis react to all these threats to Israel at US withdrawal? Hmmm

>>17169336
The Turkish people ought to rise up against their statists too.
Kurds have dealt with the statists before. They’ll do fine

When you've been politically active for a long time eventually you realize that if you actually want to see the realization of your ideal society, or something approaching it, you need to be tactical. The all-or-nothing ideological purists always lose. I've had email exchanges with him about your very question and he's always said that you have to choose the better of the two candidates, even if the choice is terrible, and then with a large coalition of like-minded activists continually put pressure on him to move his politics in the ideal direction. He thinks elections are far less important than actual civic engagement

>>17169296
>we
for someone who posts "spooked" image macros youre undeniably retarded.

>>17169336
Name 3 Kurds

>>17169350
Biden is going to slash Medicare and social security to “balance the budget” like he’s always wanted.

>>17169361
We shouldn’t ask them for anything anymore.
We should seize our power through a union of egoist.
You don’t read very closely

>>17169336
>You pull troops out. All kurds are slaughtered. It's that simple.
I fail to see how this has any relevance whatsoever to the welfare and safety of the united states. And before someone jumps down my throat, I do not apply this metric uniquely - a huge chunk of shit we do I would gladly do without.

>>17169361
Here we go.

>>17169379
I take issue only with this “United States” thing

>>17168815
>>17169296
I hope all non-voting left wingers band together for a grass roots effort to give everyone healthcare via M4A and to save the climate via a green new deal, that they're able to organize a general strike, and are able to do this so well that congress bends to a populist left will.
Only for the Supreme Court to rule it all unconstitutional and not care because they're appointed for life.
It'll never happen though so oh well.

>>17169357
Yes if the entire US took direct action pulled out their hammer & sickles flags and started the general strike everything would be fixed but that's not how the world works. We have to work within the system and depending on who you vote for bombs are either dropped or not drop. You pick the candidate.

>Kurds have dealt with the statists before. They’ll do fine
They won't do fine against an entire country with the backing of the Russian military lmao. We are literally the only reason they haven't been completely slaughtered.

>>17169367
Biden says he is going to put in a public option which is one step closer to universal healthcare. Trump is going to do better??

>>17169379
Maybe it's like a left wing thing but we tend to care about people other than ourselves.

>>17169419
Name some of the Kurds you care about

>>17169319
True, but I can't think of a single other disqualifier for Trump being the slimiest and most egregious Neoliberal in American history.

>>17169428
That one hot bitch that gets posted on /r/pics for being hot and holding an ak

>>17169400
>It'll never happen though so oh well.
Yeah. They’ll all be facing tribunals for war crimes or just debarred from practicing law.
>constitution
Burnt

>>17169404
>but that's not how the world works
Organization is how this works. Fuck your hammer and sickle imagery

>>17169409
Trump offered to pay for all covid cases at the start of this. Nothing came of it of course.
Oh and we can actually force a vote on m4a #forcethevote. I don’t want a maybe gradual step with a “public opt” we have a fucking pandemic now

>>17169437
Yes brother.

>>17169455
>>It'll never happen though so oh well.
>Yeah. They’ll all be facing tribunals for war crimes or just debarred from practicing law.
>>constitution
>Burnt
Lol. Ik there are some left wingers who have embraced gun rights and armed revolution but the left leaning side of America by and large doesn't. Call them libtards if you want but they're who you have to convince to have a revolution. And even if we were armed as conservatives are, we still wouldn't win, lol.

>>17169455
>Organization is how this works. Fuck your hammer and sickle imagery
Bro Bernie is barely center left and didn't even win the primary against the most hated women in history. The direct action of the 12 lesbians at the anarchist bookstore is not going to do anything. Policy is the only thing that is going to save the people in Yemen. Not your protest.
>>17169455
Incremental progress is how politics works. Just because you want a policy doesn't mean the entire US base does. Just because it's ethical doesn't mean it's going to happen overnight. That's not how politics works.

>>17169419
>Maybe it's like a left wing thing but we tend to care about people other than ourselves.
My attitude towards interference in foreign conflicts scales inversely with the amount of resources required to do so contrasted with the return on the investment phrased in terms of the welfare of the united states. I do not think that the Kurds are worth expending a considerable fiscal, human and diplomatic capital to protect because frankly the question of their continued existence is none of the US's business for better or worse and has virtually zero impact on US interests. If we dropped them a few crates of AKs and MANPADs and they get their neighbors to back off then bully for them; if we drop them a crate of AKs and MANPADs and they all die horribly at the hands of these same neighbors then c'est la vie. I object in the most strenuous terms to the government of the United States making itself a moral arbiter and/or mother hen to the third world for anything less than crucial matters of national defense.

>>17169473
>but they're who you have to convince to have a revolution
This Depression is going to get worse before it gets better.

>>17169491
US policy is to supply the Saudis with weapons and blockade them. That’s fine with Biden, Harris, Schumer, Pelosi, Obama and all the GOP
>incremental...
And the. There’s revolutions

>>17169513
It's not big capital. We just keep what we have now which is less than a hundred troops on bases.

>>17169521
And what, exactly, do we get in return? I don't mean fiscally, I mean what US interests are being served by our presence there that justifies US troops being in harm's way and the associated upkeep? It's just pouring a little more slop into the trough that the MIC feeds from.

>>17169428
he never answered

>>17169520
>US policy is to supply the Saudis with weapons and blockade them. That’s fine with Biden, Harris, Schumer, Pelosi, Obama and all the GOP
But the Democrats and the Republicans made the bill to end involvement? Trump's own cabinet told him not to veto it? Where is all this support you are talking about??? I don't get how you can be this braindead to think Biden is going to cause as much harm as Trump. We can go over how each policy of Biden's is going to cause less harm compared to the Trump alternative and somehow this still registers in your brain as the same.

>And the. There’s revolutions
How is there going to be a revolution if you can't even vote in a center left candidate over the most hated women in history lol? Where are all these socialists?

>>17169540
Not letting our allies be slaughtered? Abandoning your allies in time of need does not look good for future endeavors. It's less than a hundred people. A small neighborhood could probably fund the capital needed. If you need gain though US troops seem to be guarding the oil is Syria from the Turks ;)

>>17169556
I did answer are you retarded

>>17169557
>How is there going to be a revolution if you can't even vote in a center left candidate over the most hated women in history lol? Where are all these socialists?
I think it's trying to say that as social and political infrastructure collapses and living conditions continue to deteriorate, leftists will assume positions of power to fill the gaps because their rhetoric will appeal to the desperate.

Leftists who want a revolution essentially argue for authoritarianism. We don't like Democracy because the majority of people disagrees with us, hence we will take power with force, make a dictatorship and get rid of civil liberties so we can kill whoever doesn't agree with us. They only disagree with Fascists on their goals, their methods are the same.

>>17169584
Where is the indication anything is going to collapse? The world isn't going to collapse because people don't have universal healthcare.

>>17169596
I agree slightly. She acts like because she thinks a policy is good that the entire country thinks it's good. If people wanted universal healthcare they would have voted for Bernie. I don't know how it gets more simpler than that.

>>17169579
not seeing any names. seems like you dont really care and its all abstract to you

>>17169632
Is this supposed to be an argument? Just because I can't name a Tutsi that means I can't say I don't want millions of people to be slaughtered?

>>17169603
>Where is the indication anything is going to collapse?
Increasing social, political and fiscal dysfunction across all social strata, a reduced standard of living, widespread alienation and dehumanization, etc. I don't think that it's coming "soon" but I believe that it's coming. At this point all the US needs to do is unambiguously lose an open and declared war against an actual world power and that will be the straw that breaks the camel's back - there will be a substantial amount of generalized animus against the federal government (from many if not all corners) at that point and once they lose a war the question "what the fuck are you even good for anymore" is raised and seriously considered. From then on, WE BALKANS NAO.

>>17169656
right, "people," it's all just abstract. you dont care. it's all virtue signalling for you. fake bitch

>>17169628
>She acts like because she thinks a policy is good that the entire country thinks it's good.
Nah, they just don't give a shit what the country thinks. That's because the revolutionary Left is authoritarian. Always has been. If they cared about Democracy they would be Democratic Socialists instead, but they aren't, because they don't believe in incrementalism.

>>17169668
None of that is serious. None of those are indication of any collapse. There are no conflicts. Pre covid everyone was doing fine. People have family's they care for. Standard of living is great. There is nothing serious enough for the people to revolt.

>>17169687
What if you want revolution only when the society decides? At that point I think it would be okay to say fuck the system we are starting over.

>>17169689
Did you miss the part where I said that it won't be happening soon? I'm pointing out symptoms associated with the early to middle stages of a terminal illness and you're acting like I said the patient wouldn't live to see tomorrow.

>>17168777
he's a reactionary swine now

>>17169705
I don't think it's happening any time in the future either. I think we are extremely stable and are only getting more stable. Comfort levels are too high for the majority of the population. As we become more social democratic the few poor retards will get more welfare and be content.

>>17169703
If the society is on your side you can just pass the laws you want Democratically.

>>17169727
I don't think you can pass laws that say abolish the system and put a new one in place. If you have 80% of the country that says yes and 20% that says no why let the 20% decide.

>>17169714
>I don't think it's happening any time in the future either. I think we are extremely stable and are only getting more stable.
I suppose that depends on what one means by "stable". Serfdom was certainly "stable".

>Comfort levels are too high for the majority of the population. As we become more social democratic the few poor retards will get more welfare and be content.
Right, which is why dramatic upheaval is contingent on a metaphorical vote of no faith in the federal government as it fails to meet its basic obligations. When the panem et circenses stop, things get much uglier much more quickly.

>>17169741
I am pretty sure most democratic constitutions are amendable.

>>17169520
>This Depression is going to get worse before it gets better.
America has been through many depressions and hasn't had a revolution yet. You have civil unrest and governments responding to it though.

>>17169761
Yes anything can hypothetically collapse. A meteor could hit the Earth and we all die but at our current state can we point to anything shows any indication of potential collapse and the answer is no so there is no point speculating. I'm not here to play star trek with revolutionaries who are trying to cope.

>>17169788
>A meteor could hit the Earth and we all die but at our current state can we point to anything shows any indication of potential collapse and the answer is no
I suppose it depends on what criteria one chooses to employ.

>>17169783
Not entirely. We have checks and balances for the tyranny of the majority.

>>17169795
Any criteria.

>>17168777
I wish I read more of his works. PLease suggest :)

I see a shift in the lefts agenda; where it once represented the people it now represents corporate industry. It’s pushed ridden with party leaders so obsessed with their own agendas that they have conspired against its own candidates. A good example is Wassermann-Schulz, and the lefts instance to push Hillary as a leading candidate. This does not represent Chomsky’s position, and he’s been very critical of the current left.

Currently Reading: On African-Socialism

If I recall he signed that Harper's Magazine A Letter on Justice and Open Debate saying that people should be allowed to think and speak that was signed by "several prominent anti-trans voices", and which liberals viewed as an endorsement of Mein Kampf. He blasphemed the sacred cow of identity politics

>>17168777
Hate is a strong word, but he's an anarcho syndicalist that told people to pull the lever and vote Biden

>>17169315
You usually post that Öcalan book, I thought you'd be more interested in the fate of the kurdish experiment, especially Rojava.

>>17169840
She doesn't actually care about people. Politics is nothing but a fashion statement for these type of people.

>>17169786
The one Depression we had we almost had a revolution, but we had a politician in office who gave way to what the people wanted. No such leadership like that is coming this time. They burnt those bridges.
The revolts this nation has had vary in size and scope of ideal but I think it’s about five of them since the war of independence. This Depression is being egged on and it’s a very precarious one for the viability of capitalism. I doubt a UBI or bitcoin can legitimize it

>>17169557
Watch as they don’t do it again to save Biden from vetoing it. This is how they play.
Biden will in all likelihood invade Venezuela and Iran, or attempt it. I’m not being Brian dead, I’ve seen this all before and he’s not going to be any better. The media will just make it look nice and normal.

There’s likely a revolution BECAUSE we’re not getting what we want to vote for. But hey, the Feds will push us back and we’d sooner go ever more fascist to keep a revolution from happening. If we do it wrong.

>>17169840
I think they’ll do fine after a US withdrawal

>>17169881
>Brian dead
Oh brother. Thanks spellcheck

>>17169796
The checks and balances simply make it harder to change fundamental aspects of the system by requiring a strong democratic majority.

>>17169881
>Watch as they don’t do it again to save Biden from vetoing it. This is how they play.
Are you willing to put money on it? I will put $1000 right now that Biden ends US involvement in Yemen. I will post my reddit account and you can PM me on an alt or whatever. I'm down for cashapp or paypall or whatever.

>There’s likely a revolution BECAUSE we’re not getting what we want to vote for.
You aren't getting what you want because the people in the US don't want what you want lmao.

>>17169929
>You aren't getting what you want because the people in the US don't want what you want
Wrong.

>>17169941
So why didn't they vote for Bernie? If the people wanted Universal healthcare why didn't they vote for the guy who says he wants Universal healthcare. It literally doesn't get simpler than that.

>>17169948

>>17169881
> I think they’ll do fine after a US withdrawal

Lol. You don't give a fuck.

>>17169955
All politicians are in power because people vote for them. You know this right?

>>17169964
These type of leftists are really disgusting and it makes me ashamed to have to associate with them. Just as bad as tankies and just as delusional.

>>17169964
Lol. They were there before. Why wouldn’t they be there afterwards? You joking?

>>17169973
This is not the case. We are not an actual democracy. Don’t be naïve.

>>17170004
>This is not the case. We are not an actual democracy. Don’t be naïve.
Let's end it here. This says everything about you lmao. No need to go further.

>>17170012
This little short doesn’t even go into the ooky numbers that came out of just this one state
https://youtu.be/eB3SWBDYung

>>17170046
oh nonono

>>17170004
Yeah they are gonna do great against the Russian airforce.

>>17170062
Because, everyone knows, the Russian Air Force was bombing them before the US came in there to defend them. Ha.

>>17170144
Turkey couldn't get involved in Syria then. They were making false flag operation plans to get involved in Syria in 2014 but never intervened until 2016. The US was involved with the YPG in 2014 long before Turkey got involved. They would've slaughtered them at the start if they could.

>>17168777
They realized he is a white male

>>17170162
>They would've slaughtered them at the start if they could.

>>17169571
Who cares, Kurds are fake, an invention. They're just Mountain Turks. No reason to protect them and they're doing just fine without us since they did the only sensible thing and worked with Assad. Also because Turks are niggers and retarded.

Anyway it's not like the Turks want to exterminate them, that's retarded

>>17168815
>has lead to
do you even read?