/lit/ - Literature

>>17141523
>no archive.is or pastebin

>>17141523
>wsj
More like SJW

>>17141523
So? Why should I give a fuck if its banned?

>>17141523
What a time to be alive.

>>17141532
this
kys newfag

>>17141523
women hating bigots. wilson already sanitized it for burger zoomers.

>>17141523
Which translation? All of them?

>>17141523
Children and adults are taught all the time that they are at a war against their past, it still surprises me that nobody has done this before.

>>17141523
HA!
Can't wait til "start with the Greeks" gets you flagged for hate speech.
Holy moly this is gonna be a wild ride

>>17141563
My past isn't Greek. The Iliad wasn't even translated into a non-Greek Euro language until 1488.

>>17141523
based me am smarts dont need more smarts

>>17141523
One school in Massachusetts? Still stewpit as fuck I reckon

>>17141533
the tone of the article is very much against the kind of censorship being applied

Archive:
>https://web.archive.org/web/20201228152335/https://www.wsj.com/articles/even-homer-gets-mobbed-11609095872

>>17141604
the article being referred to is published in a nationwide trade journal for librarians
it is written by an americanised pootard

>>17141532
>>17141611
The paywall on WSJ is SSR'd you cucks

>>17141591
>Huh, you think the past of a civilization constitutes its history, traditions, culture and behavior, but it's not my personal past so it probably doesn't even affect me

>>17141532
>>17141544
Doesn't always work with wsj

>>17141523
this seems less an "SJW" thing to me than a bunch of young adult novelists seeing dollar signs by replacing the classics in the classroom

>>17141582
>/lit/ becomes the centre of a partisan cultural battle
I mean it's already off-topic as it is.

>>17141545
It’s the arm chair red guard

>>17141652
Why should anyone care about your autistic history, emotionoid

>>17141680
>What an appeal to emotion to believe that the history of a society would form the laws, customs, traditions and behaviors of anyone in my society including myself down to an unconscious level

>>17141666
Reminds me of that one fantasy novelist that complained she had to compete against old dead white guys like Tolkien and Lewis.

>>17141545
Except those German students were mostly burning tranny & commie propaganda and pornography

>>17141693
Yeah, you are making an appeal to emotion. Why?

>>17141634
Why is this information relevant? The ALA has frequently stood against censorship.

Wokeism is the ascendant ideology of our times, there is absolutely nothing you can do to stop them. There is no point in criticizing them because you will get nothing, just keep your head down and try to keep the things you like below their notice.

>>17141647
it's not about access it's about not using wsj

>>17141701
Learn basic reading comprehension of what is staring you in the face and maybe then we can converse. For now you are but a pig, and I throw my pearls before you in the hopes you will choke and die.

>>17141695
>complained she had to compete against old dead white guys like Tolkien and Lewis.
Imagine being this triggered.

>>17141523
Fucking finally. The classics will be cool again.
>"Aiden! What did you just put in your backpack!"
> "nuttin, xir, stop asking"
>"how very disrespectful! Open your backpack!"
>*sighs in defeat, opens backpack and takes out book
>"the iliad? How DARE you try to get smarter and better your place in society. Do you want another white fragility detention again?"

>>17141722
You need to stop being autistic, and learn how to stop making emotional arguments. Its embarrassing if you act like this above the age of 20. You should know better.

>>17141715
Common right-wing retard that turns into a fatalist little submissive fag whenever they are banned from twitter, what a queer, the most basic exposal of the left's fundamental struggle with objective reality turns the common man against them in a snap of fingers.

>>17141712
it was a response to another anon stating it was isolated to "One school in Massachusetts", mr goldfish memory.
of course the article is an opinion piece, rather than editorial policy.

>burn pro-trans and pro-homosexuality books
I shleep
>burn ancient capeshit and blatant fiction written by dead white men
NoOoOoOo sToP KiLliNg mY rAcIsT cUlTuRe!!!!!
What a fucking pack of clowns that you are.

>>17141747
Objectively speaking, the history of a civilization shapes its accumulated sets of customs, traditions, beliefs and moral standards, determining what it deems moral, legal or socially acceptable

>T-T-T-THAT'S EMOTION!

Don't direct the word to me again, insect.

>>17141728
Lol they're dead and they're still selling better than you

>>17141748
>calling Lllaid objective reality
You have to be retarded

>>17141748
I'm not right wing, I just understand that this religious takeover is unstoppable like Christianity was in the Roman times. "Go woke go broke" is a lie, most normies do not care.

>>17141769
Try not to disjoint your arm reaching so far

>>17141693
History isn't one opinion. Dante had Homer in Purgatory so clearly he didn't think much of him.

>>17141765
It is emotional care about it though. I don't have to care about your perspective. You are literally appealing to my emotions in attempt to make me care, or respect, the significant of a piece of paper you fetishize. I don't care about you, because you are an insect, a unknown clump of cells to me that I could not careless if you were to die. You are meaningless to me.

>>17141773
Most normies in most countries are right-wing populist, they're just huge pussies with cattle mentality who place themselves in a frame of being intellectually inferior by default so any blue haired retard using big words she invented on tumblr intimidates them.

Imagine seething over some books. This place makes me lose faith in humanity.

>>17141781
Put a knife in your table, hostler it up so the sharp edge is pointing out, and then slam your head onto it as fast as you can

>that part where thersites nonchalantly rebukes agamemnon for his jewish ancestry
How did Homer get away with it?

>>17141762
I'm the farthest thing from racist, but The Illiad is alot more influential than any LGBTQ book I can think of. I get your point though, they are hypocrites. Fuck censorship.

These are the most challenged books. Apparently Harry Potter uses real spells and curses btw lmffaooo
>>17141712

>>17141762
Ancient Greeks are absolutely pro-homosexual and Ovids The Metamorphoses has a trans character.
If you fail to find the modern relevance in the classics' issues then you're a fucking moron.
Banning them is ignoring the truths they found about the human condition.
Dumb fuck

>>17141790
>lose faith in humanity.
go back to 9gag

>>17141773
It's called progress stupid bigot, your racism and homophobia has no place in a civilized society.

>>17141790
>Imagine seething over some books.
what else do you expect to happen on a literature board on 4chan?
>This place makes me lose faith in humanity.
you'll get over it

>>17141523
>WSJ
lel who takes this pseud-shit serious anymore??

>>17141806
This, but unironically.

>>17141801
Hermaphrotities barely counts
mostly it's full of rapist gods and crazy women

>>17141790
>Oh no, they banned Illad in this one specific context what we will do?!?!!?!?
I dunno, retard, its not like you can't still buy literally everywhere on the internet you dumbasses. Censorship doesn't necessarily work, you can get around it.

>>17141666
That's what SJW is now. They had to get jobs sooner or later

>>17141762
Yes.

>>17141762
Do not respond to bad bait

I am of the mind schooling should purely be science, math, and PE.

Children can form their own ideologies without a governmental hand supplanting the parent.

>>17141787
>I don't have to give a fuck
>doesn't wear a burka and gets stoned to death

What an edgy little queer biting my style and all

>>17141830
>Censorship doesn't necessarily work, you can get around it.
Say that to my face when libgen, archive.org and 4chan get deplatformed

>>17141849
>libgen
the russian BVLLS won't allow that

>>17141861
Putin's got only a couple of years to live then Russia will become a progressive country

>>17141849
>Muh slope! Its slippery.
Weak cuck. If the Illiad is banned I'll rewrite it with even more violence and femboys

>>17141806
This, but ironically

>>17141876
You won't do shit, and femboys are just eggs waiting to hatch

>>17141523
I agree with the first part but disagree with the second part.

>>17141604
all these things start somewhere. the fact this story is published will motivate others to take the same position, so they can be put in the paper as 'true followers'

>>17141824
No it was Iphus, a human born a woman that turned into a man.
There's also a theme challenging the traditional concept of causality, and another about how observation fundamentally changes the world.
Not to mention the historical significance of being Shakespeare's primary non-christian inspiration.
But wait, you guys will ban him too for good measure

>>17141712
Guarantee no one has complained about Harry Potter in schools for years, but they needed to find something right wing

>>17141904
"Right wing"

>>17141849
If you give up that easily, you deserve to be censored

this is interesting because i just finished the iliad yesterday and i cannot think what would be offensive in it. gory and violent sure, but thats to be expected from a story about an ancient greek battle.

>>17141849
I wish I didn't believe you.

>>17141913
They'll never deplatform 4chan. They'd have autistic rejects running through the streets

>>17141892
Oh that guy.

>>17141909
My post was bad, what I meant was they needed to insert that to try and ground people's perception in "hurr dumb Christian rednecks ololol" because when 8 out of 10 entries are LGBTLMFAO shit people might [correctly] read it as "homos pushing their cumbrain mindrot on children"

>>17141921
I'm willing to bet at least half of the people who decided to ban it have never finished it. They got filtered and made up a catch-all excuse for why they shouldn't read it

>>17141523
Does this mean the woman who translated the Odyssey is now cancelled for being an uncle tom of feminism?

>>17141927
it's a glowie honeypot that's the main reason it won't die easily.

>>17141921
It's obviously just because it's a hallmark of European culture

>>17141941
So you're saying they put in Harry Potter to legitimize pushing a sexualized agenda onto children? But why would they do that? Where is the money in it?

>>17141944
wouldnt surprise me. people will work hard to be lazy.

>>17141904
What the fuck are you talkin bout? That's the most recent list of most challenged books. Your pets aren't on their because no onr cares about your le edgy meme lit lmfao.

>>17141944
Outside of the political nonos, they have stated that zoomers should read easier texts. In a way, they are admitting their incompetence by being unable to teach zoomers how to read literature but, to defend them, technology has melted attention span. My younger brother told me how most of his younger teachers (millienials) play vids and hand out worksheets, instead of teaching, so they can chill at their desks with their iphones.

>>17141890
See>>17141876

>>17141977
Small dick post

>>17141980
>instead of teaching, so they can chill at their desks with their iphones.
You have to wonder if these are the same people complaining that they aren't paid enough

>>17141992
My dick is 8 inches. People save my dick to their phone to LARP as big dicked me.

>>17141980
Goddammit.
The problem was never the books they were teaching, but the methods they taught them with.
Don't teach "British literature" teach hamlet then Great Expectations then something by Virginia Woolf over the course of a semester.
>but racist anon, they're all white
That's what the UK was for the longest time, and I thought you were the one that said Shakespeare was a black girl

>>17141988
>slippery slope fallacy
That's what I thought when my parents told me legalizing gay marriage would be a slippery slope to destigmatizing pedophilia, but here we are and here cuties is

>>17142012
Obviously they are.

>>17141773
Not really. It's far closer to Augustus' reforms, complete with the crossdressing eunuchs. We're only a few generations removed from the head thinkers of Wokeism being actual literal Puritans ranting about how if you don't bury your children alive then you're a Pagan.

There's nothing fundamentally new about Wokeism, it's the end result of Christianity. Pagan critics of Christianity, such as Julian, were pointing this out two thousand years ago. Hell, Catholic critics of Protestantism were pointing this out five hundred years ago.

>>17141980
I remember meeting the teaching majors back at school and thinking "their students are fucked"

>>17141666
Could .. could it be that. Maybe. Maybe that capitalism is destroying culture and that maybe. Maybe we should follow the brilliant shining examples of China, Vietnam, and Cuba who have maintained a strong culture, community-ties, and tradition???

>>17142080
Yeah cause China doesn't censor anyone, they just imprison journalists that tried to report on the coronavirus without their permission

Any teacher who is trying to make high schoolers read Homer is a shit teacher with an inferiority complex.

>>17142053
>There's nothing fundamentally new about Wokeism, it's the end result of Christianity. Pagan critics of Christianity, such as Julian, were pointing this out two thousand years ago. Hell, Catholic critics of Protestantism were pointing this out five hundred years ago.
Could you expand on this a little it seems crucial.

>>17141890
The problem is nothing has "started". All things start from somewhere but this isn't a thing yet, it's literally one school in Massachusetts. You could say that this is a trend of wokeism but no other school is doing this so it's not a trend. The fact that you already extrapolate this into a slippery slope is just proof that your brain has been eaten by ideology.

>>17142095
Right. It should be in middle school like Plato (PBUH) commands.

>>17142027
Cuties. Pbbttt

Oh and if you wish to preserve a culture, you will always need to censor people. The right only whines "muh free speech" when they are being censored so this appeal to pathos of "the Classics" begins to look more and more like butthurt rightism.

>>17142095
So every higher education teacher before 1950?

>>17142156
I was a high school freshman in 2010 and my teacher taught us the Illiad and the Odyssey in our AP course. This is a very recent trend.

>>17142027
This is a trash argument considering pedophilia has been semi-normal in society for more of human history than homosexuality has been criminalized. This simple fact suggests that they are independent phenomena

>>17142095
The Iliad is 24 Books and each book is 15 to 20 pages. That is difficult for a high schooler?

>>17142095
That's like 90% of school curriculums. Just because you grew up with a shitty school doesn't mean the rest of us have.

>>17142090
> they just imprison journalists that tried to report on the coronavirus without their permission

They imprisoned, for a single day, a single doctor who discussed the new virus in a groupchat. This is the correct thing to do, people should not go spreading alarm about things that are not proven or fully understood yet, it creates panic and hysteria that makes it harder to effectively deal with crises.

>>17142095
Homer used to be read by children..

What kind of mongrelization is this? Why would you announce that you're a retard, and encourage others to be retards too? Don't you want to live in a world of excellence? Why wouldn't you want teachers to challenge students?

>>17142211
>>17142080
Note the ESL. This is a wumao.

>>17141523
This is why you buy/print ALL texts which need to survive. The left wants to destroy literature; if you do not create a PAPER record yourself, you are complicit. I myself have been working on memorizing and writing down as much of Greek mythology as possible, so when they take over a record can survive until the leftist regime collapses (leftist regimes always collapse inside of a century).

>>17142080
The first priority of a leftism implemented by modern western progressives would be cultural revolution that would make Mao blush

>>17142211
Lol CCP just threw a journalist in jail for four years shill. She's on a hunger strike so you guys are keeping her alive.
Don't forget that nothing happened on June 4, 1989 and never stop being afraid of the sleeping dragon you guys are sitting on. 1,000,000,000 people is a lot to keep in line, sure hope they don't get any ideas

>>17142124
You aren't smart and your peers think you're a faggot

>>17142236
based, have you considered carving all classic literature into the wooden shafts of farming implements? when the leftist cultural revolution happens and all the twitter ladies appoint themselves Comrade Minister of Event Planning and Accessible Web Design, all the rubes will be left to farm and we can rebuild from the bottom up like the master-slave dialectic

>(leftist regimes always collapse inside of a century).
that was back when they could perpetuate themselves for a few generations. leftists nowadays are half gay, half sterilized by tranny chems, half deluded into thinking men can be pregnant, half polyamorous cuckolds, and half women over 35 who can't produce viable children anyway. i give them 20-30 years tops

Where is that Peter Hitchens video where he recites a poem he learnt at school to a silenced mob.

>>17142319
i think this is it
https://youtu.be/BHoAQW_DBI4

>>17142240
You have to be retarded, Mao was killing millions of people. The fuck has a bunch of university kids done besides tear down a few flags?

>>17141696
phew that's okay then

>>17142341
I unironically believe the end goal of modern progressives is the mass murder of all non-LGBT non-POC people.

>>17142357
Meds

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66gmYLtJJuc

Homer dies in the United States, but thrives in the hearts of those who will carry him forward in history. All of these towers that the current generation is building will be swept completely in the next generation, and in the next age.

>>17142361
They murdered Philip Innes Fraser and they will murder you too.

>>17142108
Judaism posits a number of things, and the major one is that a specific text is axiomatically correct. The Torah is true. The Torah is right. Judaism, in many ways, is a religion of Bibliolatry, the worship of the Torah. Christians (And Jews and Muslims) often mock "Pagans" (whatever that means) as "worshiping rocks and trees", but this isn't actually true. The Japanese pointed this out when Christian missionaries first made landfall. The Japanese totally accept that a Kami can live inside a rock, or a tree, literally. The rock the Kami lives in is its house. The shrine around the rock is the house of the Kami's house. But the rock is just a rock. Likewise, European polytheists believed the Gods could like a specific thing (a rock, a tree, a statue, a temple), but the thing is just a thing that the God happens to like. It's separate from the God. Abrahamics, meanwhile, posit special status to certain things. The Japanese noted that Christians would refuse to break crosses, for example, whereas a Shintoist would have no problem breaking a statue of a Kami, provided the statue was known to be empty of a Kami. All Abrahamics hold as canon that contact with their holy books can literally physically cure illnesses. The Torah paints Pagans as being retards who think that the statues of the Gods actually get up and move (including a, patently fictitious, narrative in which Daniel converts the entirety of Persia to Judaism by showing the Shahanshah that the statues of the Canaanite Gods that the Persians for some reason worship are actually just statues and don't eat food).

The important part of this is that a text is just an arbitrary arrangement of symbols. One can distort them into meaning whatever one wants. Abrahamic theology is full of this, it's literally the point of Pilpul, which is a technique wherein one twists a definition of a word (or series of words) to mean whatever one wants. This creates a sort of naive rationalism that is really easy to derail as it eventually leads to people arguing that reality isn't real because the Torah said so. If the Torah said the sky was green and not blue, you would be wrong to say that the sky was blue. The same goes if I can twist some passage of the Torah into saying that the sky is green.

>>17142357
Yes, when AOC says she wants healthcare for all she really wants just to kill people like you

>>17142341
Go from protesting aginst the Bush regime to unwaveringly supporting the exact same politics plus unlimited drone bombings, deportations, and corporate and crony political hacks conspiring with the media and intelligence agencies whenever it's convenient, all the while thinking they are the brave noble revolutionaries saving the world, because all you have to do is dangle "he said fag once" in front of their face and they'll do anything.

It's not that they're powerful, it's that they're so dumb they might as well be operating on an animal level, and they are the majority of the population because of how consensus and information flow now works. Anyone who wants to use them will use them. And as long as they're tearing their own countries apart from the inside, importing billions of rapist welfare queen immigrants and hiding all the problems of societal decline under a blanket of LGBT rights astroturf, the capitalists benefit, so they will continue to promote them.

I may be retarded.... but does anyone have the un-paywalled full article?

>>17142354
It was a political statement on the degeneracy of the Weimar republic.

>>17142378
>reading the article
what do you think this is, quora

>>17142369
AOC is bought and sold. She used a progressive roleplay to make herself a political brand name and now you'll be seeing her do whatever Pelosi Democrats tell her to do for another 50 years.

>>17141523
Better ban harry potter from school libraries then.

>>17142369
Healthcare for all is a scam they use pleasantries to cover their agendas

>>17142369
Spend 20 mins on twitter and you will realize that such an event would be supported by many people.

>>17141533
WSJ is generally conservative

>>17142357
>>17142365
you do not seem particularly attuned to reality

>>17142365
Who is that? why did they do it?

>>17142367
The Pagan world of Rome didn't have holy texts in this way, that were just axiomatically treated as true. Certain individuals could be treated as supremely wise (Plato, Aristotle, Homer, etc), but the actual written works were understood as being just writing of their thoughts on a page. A book was an attempt at conveying thought between the writer and the reader. There's no saying that, say, a ritual manual on how to worship Isis is actually true. This is COMPLETELY counter to the Abrahamic point of view, wherein the book is axiomatically true. A physical Bible is a means of conveying THE Bible, which has some existence outside of just the literal books. If every Bible was burnt, the Bible would still be here.

The problem is that this completely erases truth and knowledge in any real way because it unmoors you from language itself. The end result of Abrahamic rationalism is just redefining words on the fly (something Early Christians did, and something Abrahamics still happily do without even really realizing it). It simultaneously removes our ability to know about the world AND, however, adds a reality to mental systems that just isn't there. To the Abrahamic, the hierarchies of angels are more real than the angels themselves. The great sin of Paganism is not that the Gods aren't real, but rather that a Pagan could meet his Gods, whereas an Abrahamic's divinities live solely in his head. Plato's idea of transcendental realities was readily accepted by the Jews (and Christians) precisely for this reason: Yahweh is an abstract textual concept that lives off in some transcendent realm, not here. This is LITERALLY "feels over reals".

>>17142391
*cuckservative

>>17142369
You mean like the time she tried to crowdsource a list of trump supporters so people could harrass them?

>>17142429
The Pagan critics of Christianity pointed out that Christians use this to justify the non-existence of, say, Zeus. But whatever arguments you can use against Zeus, you can also use against Yahweh. One cannot actually argue against one specific divinity using this method without also arguing against all of them. If your entire argument for the existence of something is a text, and the non-existence of other things is another text, then one could (as the Atheists of the 2000s pointed out) justify the existence of Spiderman via Spiderman comics, and the non-existence of elephants by providing a book that says that they don't exist. Lacking any sort of mooring in reality, we're just adrift in textual rationalism.

The Catholic and Orthodox Churches countered this by taking some of the Pagan view, that God is "in" the world, and using Tradition to bolster this. We know the Bible is true because Tradition says so, and we know Tradition is true because it comes from Jesus (who, they argued, was a real person, which satisfies the Pagan critique of having a mooring in reality). The problem is, Protestantism does away with this, and by corollary does away with the Catholic and Orthodox churches' ability to moor themselves in this (by introducing this AT ALL and removing the ability to force out alternative interpretations of scripture and tradition).

>>17142080
>China
>maintaining a strong culture, community-ties, and tradition
my sides..

First they came for the n-word in Huckleberry Fin, and I said nothing...

>>17142462
An important point about the system mentioned in the first paragraph of >>17142429 is that this means that a "wrong book" is a MAJOR offense. If you write something that isn't true, then you're actually doing something immoral. Wrong-texts need to be destroyed. This means that you don't end up with something like Hinduism, which is a fucking mess, but allows for everyone to sift out and find what they want. Instead, you have violence because you HAVE to correct the textual errors of other sects. This leads into Protestant violence, which never really goes away. In fact, it's done to such an intensity that it completely upends the European political and intellectual world. The Hundred Years War never really ended.

All it takes, then, is some guy (in this case, Calvin) positing a doctrine that removes the last vestiges of reality from Protestantism (Double Predestination does this by asserting that there is zero reason to "do" Christianity). From here, it's simple genealogy. Calvinism leads to the English Dissenters, who lead to the Puritans, who lead to New England, who lead to Progressivism, who lead to #WOKE.

Dude, no one is reading your giant text walls.

>>17142458
Based

>>17142462
> But whatever arguments you can use against Zeus, you can also use against Yahweh.

patently false; Zeus was acknowledged to be a physical god among other physical gods and even attacked his own father.

the God of the Jews had more in common with the Zoroastian/Persian understanding of deity where God neither had body or father

>>17142429
> The end result of Abrahamic rationalism is just redefining words on the fly (something Early Christians did

it is merely incidental, not a foregone conclusion. the pagan system was ultimately syncretic - and both the romans and greeks mashed their theology with other encountered cultures with almost tireless impunity.

I suggest you seek more education on the difference between paganism and judaism/christianity.

>>17142488
Can confirm. Uninteresting and slid

>>17142354
>irony in late 2020
ishiggy, that ship has sailed brother

>>17142484
Interesting post

>>17141634
>americanised
You’d think /lit/ would be smarter than this.

>>17142446
tomato tomato

>>17142232
Cope

>>17141782
>Dante put pagan in purgatory, he must have hated his guts §
Wow, they told me /lit/ was fucking stupid but now at last, I truly see.

>>17142492
But that's exactly the point: why do Christians reject Ahura Mazda? Because the texts are wrong. But there's no reason we can't say that the Christian texts are wrong, and the Zoroastrian texts are real. That's the entire point: by divorcing yourself from reality you unmoor yourself from any capacity to actually determine which texts are true and which are false. The Catholic and Orthodox solution of tradition works great... until tradition just becomes textual reference.

The "Post-Modern Blues" (as I call it) is a phenomena that many academics who immerse themselves in Post-Modernism run into, where they realize exactly this. Lacking any ability to determine which texts we should adhere to, we're left just floating in a morass. The end result is positing that Communist revolution will give us telepathy, and then killing yourself. Or your wife and then yourself.

>>17142229
They can challenge them with something actually relevant to modern times, not some niche bullshit best left for nerds to read in their own time

>>17142178
This post makes no sense at all.

>>17142577
>actually relevant to modern times
Pozzing My Neg Hole: The Life and Times of a Disabled Genderqueer Bugchaser

>>17142458
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/blame-abc-news-finds-17-cases-invoking-trump/story?id=58912889

>>17142488
I just did.

>>17142573
>But that's exactly the point: why do Christians reject Ahura Mazda? Because the texts are wrong.

...because it's an alien religious tradition with little in common with christianity?

>But there's no reason we can't say that the Christian texts are wrong, and the Zoroastrian texts are real

seems like another argument altogether. the true reason the Jews and the Christians are onerous about textual purity is simple; to be rid of the syncretic impurities that have left paganism a quivering, irrelevant, and nonsensical mess.

>The Catholic and Orthodox solution of tradition works great... until tradition just becomes textual reference.

Who is St. Aquinas and Palamas? Chop suey?

>who immerse themselves in Post-Modernism run into, where they realize exactly this.

They seem to have fallen for a bad argument. Christianity and Judaism does not simply rely on text, but oral tradition; and even if you seek to reduce this all to mere words, then basically all human understand is pish-posh because everything is words; and that's a silly argument.

>>17142599
Cope dumb chudcel
You lost the culture war

>>17141696
>All Quiet on the Western Front
>Heinrich and Thomas Mann
>Emil Ludwig
They burned their own history in order to force their population to forget the Great War and the lessons the world learned from it.

>>17142620
>it's an alien religious tradition with little in common with christianity
lol good one

>>17142640
see you at the next culture war. do you think it ever ends? haha...

>>17142656
It ends with bigots getting deleted from the face of earth and love winning once again.

>>17142640
Dilate

>>17142650
not an argument

>>17142663
you're going to be deleted? why

>>17142484
I think you may actually have schizophrenia.

>>17142679
No, he's just another verbose soul who talks much and knows little. I do find it concerning how these types will present a self-refuting argument without hesitation.

>>17142669
>>17142672
Have sex unironically

>>17142663
>He doesn't realize that love and hate are functionally the same
I can tell you didn't read the Iliad either.

>>17141603
based

>>17142692
There was no hate before the oppressive white men came along

>>17142690
do you desire to be my bride?

>>17142679
Don't take my word for it. If you want to read a text (heh) on this, why not check out the something by David Gelernter (author of "Americanism"), or George McKenna ("The Puritan Origins of American Patriotism"), Murray Rothbard (his thesis is that this is a GOOD thing, however), Richard M. Gamble ("The War for Righteousness"), R. J. Rushdoony ("Messianic Character of American Education"), Time Magazine (see: American Malvern), Peter Hitchens (The Abolition of Britain; yes, this is that BASED guy whose atheist BROTHER was given CANCER by GOD), wow BASED), Theodore Dalyrymple (Life at the Bottom), Richard Price (this guy is actually a Puritan minister who writes pro-Jacobin screeds; the thought in these circles was that after the Jacobins had finished off the Catholic Church that they would convert en masse to Protestantism), literally EVERYONE involved in Unitarian Universalism (the Unitarian Universalist """""""""""""church"""""""""" just openly talks about the Unitarian origins of Woke), George Packer (Blood of the Liberals), Anthony Lukas (Common Ground), Richard Ellis (Dark Side of the Left), Arthur Lipow (Authoritarian Socialism), Steven Pinker (The Blank Slate, like Rothbard he says that this development is a GOOD thing), Gordon Woods (Radicalism of the American Revolution).

>>17142620
This was already addressed, see >>17142462. Whatever tradcath meme-LARP fad you've attached yourself to this week isn't what we're talking about here, Protestantism already made that irrelevant.

Good idea. Showing Homer to someone under the age of 16 is a good way to make sure they never read a book for fun again.
>but anon I read Homer when I was young
Yes and you’re on 4chan, hardly a sterling example of mental development.
No, most people aren’t ready for Homer until they’re much older. They either won’t understand it, or worse, they won’t appreciate it.

Give the kids fun books. Get them to love reading. Then every classic is on the menu

>>17142492
>patently false; Zeus was acknowledged to be a physical god among other physical gods and even attacked his own father.
could this have been some extension from ancestor worship?

>>17142710
No

>>17142737
too late

i already love you

>>17142730
probably.

>>17142723
take your pills

>>17142484
so is that the origin of the endless protestant schisms and sectarian animosity?

>>17142492
>Zeus was acknowledged to be a physical god among other physical gods and even attacked his own father.
Did you even read the myths or are you just blurting out anti-hellenic propaganda made by Christians? Mortals would die if they saw the Gods' true form. At no point in time were the Greek Gods physical deities unless they took fake human or animal bodies.

>>17142727
The Iliad and Odyssey are basically an action-blockbuster with tons of violence and fucking. You have to be an extremely shit teacher if you can't get your students to like them. Or you have to be teaching at some shit school where all the students are poor and the parents don't care to instill an appreciation for learning in them.

>>17142236
As much as I can appreciate Le Aesthetic Paper Form™, digital hording of culture is how such works will survive. Not in the terms of the decades of censorship to come, but rather the thousands of years after humanity abandons the Earth.

>>17142758
Yes. An important point about this is the sectarian animosity. Hinduism has a bazillion minor little sects with their own autistic differences, but there's no reason to commit largescale persistent violence. Two sects can come to blows, but there's no reason to wipe out an alternative doctrine. It's followers, maybe, but the doctrine is irrelevant. The Catholic and Orthodox churches demonstrated the capacity to do this as well. It was largely irrelevant to the Portuguese Christians how the Russian Christians venerated Mary, for example.

The necessity for correct wrong-texts alongside the ability to just makeup whatever interpretation of texts that you want leads to violent religious-shopping. Don't like what your pastor says? Find another one! This is a perennial talking point that (actual) Catholics bring up. The whole "Protestant Workethic" theory posits that this is just apply Capitalism to religion, but realistically "Capitalism" (I'd actually say Liberalism, but whatever) is just applying Protestant theology to economics. This is what I mean by
>The Hundred Years War never ended
At no point did anyone "win" the 100 Years War. It was just decided that everyone would instead duke it out for followers in a "frozen war" for the souls of the faithful that didn't fuck up the economy of Europe anymore.

>>17142767
>Did you even read the myths or are you just blurting out anti-hellenic propaganda made by Christians?

did you read Herodotus? he mentions this as the primary difference in religious understanding between the Greeks and the East.

>Mortals would die if they saw the Gods' true form. At no point in time were the Greek Gods physical deities unless they took fake human or animal bodies.

the distinction was always muddled and never strong. good try in trying to seem authoritative thought, you should read herodotus.

>>17142769
There's no point arguing with you lot, you're too disassociated from the sensibilities of the common person.

>>17142647
Is there a list of what was burnt?

>>17142792
So the purging of heresy?

>>17142798
You haven't read Herodotus. It seems you haven't read much of anything.

>>17142819
Not him, but it's worth noting that when people talk about the Nazis burning books, they act as if it was an active and constant censorship, but a lot of the book burnings were literally just people burning physical books. I've seen huge lists of all of the books burnt, and a lot of them don't also fall under the Nazi Party's censorship policies.

>>17141523
haha
fuck those /pol/tards though, right? i'd never wanna be a reactionary anti-semite like them!

You haven't made it until your book has been banned.

>>17142080
You realize that banning something like the Illiad is very akin to China's cultural revolution? It's the same shit, different culture.

>>17142840
>You haven't read Herodotus. It seems you haven't read much of anything.

Imbecile. Then what about the myths of Dionysus taking human form and conquering the East? Alexander the Great and the rest of the Macedonians seem to believe the gods had taken human form to conquer.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dionysiaca

>The nomoi of the Persians are treated in a minor logos (Histories 1.131-40).Herodotus’s description starts with the religious beliefs. The Persians have neither images of gods (ágalma; concerning the terminology, cf. Scheer, 2000, pp. 8-34) nor temples or altars. They deny anthropomorphism, and they pay homage to the elements—sun, moon, earth, fire, water, and wind. The only god they know from the beginning is Zeus, who is equated with the “firmament” (ho kýklos pâs toû ouranoû) and is worshipped on the tops of the mountains.

happy now? idiot. on top of all this; Apollonius Rhodes and no problem depicting the goddess Athena coming personally down to earth to send the Argos past the clashing rocks with a hard push of her right hand.

>>17142905
>Dionysiaca
This is why furiously googling and posting links is a bad idea.

You remember when you came here for the first time last week, and some guy told you to "start with the Greeks"? That meant you weren't supposed to post until you'd read a few books, and look here, you've filled this thread with shit and you haven't even started on Homer. Chop chop, you've got some work to do.

>>17142935
no argument, just bitchy twaddle. in any case, it's fairly conclusive the greeks believed the gods had physical bodies - seeing as they came to earth to inter-breed with men, make war, and at times make no attempt to "hide" themselves as seen in certain traditions

consider yourself debonked

>>17142828
Essentially. Remember, it's not the purging of heretics, it's the purging of heresy. It's elimination of the doctrine.

like literally who cares tho only nerds read that shit anyways

>>17142948
>>17142905
Dionysiaca is the myth where Zeus showing Semele his true form sets her on fire and burns her eyes out, anon.

>>17142979
it doesn't matter, the greek gods still had physical bodies. whether or not it burned eyes does not matter. are you aware that "ichor" was what the gods exuded whenever they were "damaged"?

how can non-physical bodies exude a liquid?
the mythical rational greeks in your mind don't exist, sorry.

>>17142972
I'm going to cut your father's throat open and cut out his tongue.

>>17143005
yikes my dude. twitter and reddit was right. alot of mental folk here. chill out tho

>>17142992
If it doesn't matter, then why did you cite it as evidence of your point? Are you saying that anon was right, and you cited a book without having read it?

>>17143014
because the god's "true form" burning eyes do not make a difference in the argument whether or not they had physical bodies

what part of this do you not understand? the sun burns your eyes when you look at it; why? because it's part of its physical properties

>>17142893
Where will the refugees hide this time?

>>17142957
So we need to identify what the wokeoids consider heresy and defuse it somehow.
one of them seems to be differences in performance between individuals, they seem to hate IQ

>>17143028
The argument was never over whether they had "physical bodies" you retard, it was whether or not they were showing their true forms. That's literally what anon said in >>17142767.
>Did you even read the myths or are you just blurting out anti-hellenic propaganda made by Christians? Mortals would die if they saw the Gods' true form. At no point in time were the Greek Gods physical deities unless they took fake human or animal bodies.

You strike me as just another verbose soul who talks much and knows little. I do find it concerning how you types will present a self-refuting argument without hesitation.

>>17143064
mortals dying if they saw the god's true forms does not mean the "true forms" are not physical.

you're just butthurt because you lost the argument earlier...would you like to be my bride too?

>>17143053
It's White people, anon. It's always been White people. It was White people even when it was actual literal Christianity. Consider that Christianity posits that gentiles being buried in an area fundamentally taints it, but Jews being buried there makes it fundamentally holy. Hell, consider the fact that Iceland, and all of Scandinavia, for many years had it as a crime punishable by burning at the stake to be outside too much (this is actually related to a Norse magical practice, "sitting out", in which one would enter a sort of trance state while walking in the woods to receive magical aid from one's ancestors).

The way to defuse it is to replace the entire Abrahamic religious complex with something else. Unless you literally pull this out by the roots, it won't go away, you'll just get WOKE+Islam, or WOKE+Orthodoxy. The entire point of Protestantism is to just absorb things into the "protestant doctrinal conflict" complex. The Pope is now openly regurgitating Protestant theology, after decades of Catholicism being just one of many denominations.

>>17143013
You're clearly baiting, but there are probably real people who talk like you pretend to.

>>17141523
This subculture loves to keep making demands, burning witches, etc. What is to be done? It is to be pushed out of sight, ignored like the unruly child that it is. This ideology and its criticism has no place on this board because it does not deserve acknowledgement, does not deserve even the slightest concession. It's clear that big tech and media giants have been unable to remain neutral in all this. They get disregarded also, they are unnecessary dependency. This subculture thrives in media, thrives on making people seethe. Cut it out and it will perish like a fire without oxygen, you won't remember it or look back. Consequently all media, all advertisement, all recent literature goes in the trash. Relationships remain "in-person" (because anything less is no relationship) and un-ideologized. Children are to be sent to private school and kept away from the internet. Problem solved.

>>17143181
>Relationships remain "in-person" (because anything less is no relationship)
what about the covid problem?

>>17141523
that is why I have been bookhoarding since corona started
> so don't call me a pseud ever again /lit/
I am Muad'Dib

>>17143223
paper or digital?

>>17143005
Haha pussy

>>17143237
paper
i am not a fag

>>17143200
The only reason why it ever became a problem was that people were willing to accept something less than actual relationships.

>>burn pro-trans and pro-homosexuality books
>I shleep
>>burn ancient capeshit and blatant fiction written by dead white men
>NoOoOoOo sToP KiLliNg mY rAcIsT cUlTuRe!!!!!
>What a fucking pack of clowns that you are.

>>17143283
Oof nice selfie chad

>>17142792
I think you mean the 30 years war

>>17142769
I don't think anyone has sex in the Iliad

>>17142080
Go eat your bat soup, Xian Poo.

>>17142095
Yeah, they should read Guenon.

>>17143492
based

>>17142357
You are braindead, they are pawns, PAWNS of capital.

I came across this quote, I thought it interesting
>Communal life breeds sensitive people. That is why so many poets and martyrs are found among the ranks of the Lebanese, while pornstars and petty thieves are a dime a dozen in the vapid consumerist wasteland of 21st century America […] Every nook and cranny of our [Lebanese] village was crafted by our ancestors, and the trajectory and inertia of our common heritage feels almost inevitable. Each generation adds another level to our living quarters, or expands the garden a little more, or dedicates a new roadside shrine.

>>17141523
Good most people don't deserve do be taught classics "pearls before swine". There has been and will always be those who seek it out later in their life. The arts have always been propped up by only a handful of artists who lived in a time with considerably less people.

>>17142376
>the while thinking they are the brave noble revolutionaries saving the world, because all you have to do is dangle "he said fag once" in front of their face and they'll do anything.
You're being a fag right now. Instead of moralizing, while critizing your opponents of being moralfaggots, why don't you use a couple of brain cells to prioritize policies that benefit you; you're not going ever create a perfect world, take what you can get, and also stop being an autistic idiot who believes in conspiracy theories you got from /pol/, try to actually verify your claims using evidence, like empirical evidence, instead of being a psuedo

>>17143795
This can also be applied to leftards, who in their destructive pursuit of a perfect world continually ruin the minds of the people they supposedly care about. Kill yourself chapo.

>>17142361
>Meds

>>17141523
Another cringy thread on nu/pol/ I wish the fuhrer of fatasses was still president so these pussies would queer on back to their containment board.

>>17143893
Ever since /r/chapotraphouse was banned we've had an infestion of virgins whining about muh pol constantly here.

>>17142603
>abc
yeah get a real source

>>17143891
Did you take em?

>>17141523
they will be burning these books soon enough you have been warned

>>17143897
Fuck off redditors nobody gives a shit about your gay sub. I have the displeasure of being an oldfag and the whole site went to shit after the honeypit glownigger stormfags started raiding.

>>17143907
Yeah sure mr "oldfag" you talking about the chuds and whining about muh /pol/ boogeyman is definitely not part of the retarded takeover attempt by leftoid retards who scattered like roaches after their reddit ban.

>>17143931
>chuds
kill yourself this is /lit/ you are better than this

>>17143931
>it's a conspiracy
Fuck off qoomer filth

>>17141523
the first line of the article says it was the odyssey... you read the article you spammed for a bullshit thread right?

>>17143906
oh yes, we've been warned, and the writing is all on the wall now. It's full on cultural reset in the post 2020 pandemic world or bust. that's what they want. they chambers have been loaded for years through university qualification of young teachers and other professionals, they do not intend to keep teaching the great books that they never read.

>>17141523
>Thus Seattle English teacher Evin Shinn tweeted in 2018 that he’d “rather die” than teach “The Scarlet Letter,” unless Nathaniel Hawthorne’s novel is used to “fight against misogyny and slut-shaming.”
But... isn't that what the Starlet Letter /was/ about? or am I a brainlet?

>>17143992
wwg1wga

>>17144011
yes. the teachers didn't read the book and find it too long and hard to get through. dumbass millenials raised on MSN and texting are schoolteachers now.

>>17143962
>muh pol boogeyman
get out of here leftoid

>>17144129
WWG1WGA

haha are there actual chapo faggots in this thread

protip when talking to chapoqueers, they want to act like they're cool but they're literally afraid of insulting trannies/other freaks so if you try to ask them about trannies they will continually dodge the question and try to redirect the topic to something else. it's a good way to test if they're a chapofaget.

>>17141523
Fucking niggers, amiright.

>>17144166
no

>>17144147
Fuck you faggot tranny bitch.
>>17144166
No.

>>17141712
Where's Huckleberry Finn??

>>17144180
>>17144193
Seething nogs fuck off back to plebbit. Oh wait you can’t because even Reddit got tired of you fags :^)

>>17144270
must be fun to come from discord and think you're disrupting le epic right wing threads on 4chain, i remember my first beer

>>17141523
Never happened that's a conservacuck meme, this place sucks

>>17144227
Oh, there's a seperate list for classics. They get challenged nearly every year, but not to the extent that those did last year.
Here's the classics with a fairly detailed history of the challenges against them and local bans.
http://www.ala.org/advocacy/bbooks/frequentlychallengedbooks/classics

>>17141523
Not to turn this place into /pol/ 2.0 but....do black people even read?

>>17142145
The left is destroying our culture through censorship are you on crack?

>>17144270
>>17144286
Post bookshelves.

>>17144294
those challenges are all ancient and quaint

>>17144295
Yes.

>>17144298
the elites are using the left to destroy our culture like the useful idiots they are

>>17144316
What's your point? Are you really fat or something?

>>17144298
Culture? Mutts?
Couldn't be.

>>17144321
Yeah that’s more accurate

>>17144331
If you are on this board and value classic literature you should want to stop censorship of classic works

>>17144354
I do. This was one school in Massachusetts and it very likely won't happen anyway. I support all free speech and expression. If they ban Homer I will start a guerilla press and airdrop it in every corner of this fuckin country.

>>17144360
What part of >>17144321 do you fail to understand?

>>17144364
Oh. Yeah, that's not happening lmfao. Imagine seeing a blog post about the Odyssey in some super white liberal bourgeois neighborhood and getting your g string all bundled up. Go to Massachusetts and fight the Karens anon. Banning the Oddysey will only make it more powerful.

>>17144306
one portion of what i have

>>17144364
Yes! WWG1WGA

>>17144326
not really fat at all, no

>>17142501
He was not being ironic.

>>17144360
Realize that stuff like discarding classic literature from curriculums will become more and more common because of leftist/elite dogma

>>17144387
Then what's your point? Those books were banned on a much larger scale than the OP yet they're "quaint" fuck off from the thread then if this level of censorship is sooo blasé to you.

>>17141591
Until when?

>>17144410
Leftists support free speech. I don't know what conservacucks and twitter libs do. I'm telling you that I will directly oppose any attempts to censor classic works of literature. I don't believe in your slippery slope flat earth lizard people shit Alex.

>>17144306
this is on portion of what I have

>>17144449
Nice. Why do believe the glownigger disunity shit then?

>>17144416
I don't have a point beyond anyone who's even a little into books seems to be generally against this kind of thing, it's just pearl clutching from people who barely read at all almost always

>>17144426
You should check up on what twitter libs do because they don’t support free speech. What’s happening is not the hard banning of books but the soft and incremental suppression of information about them. What will be taught in public schools 50 years from now will exclusively be thinly veiled political propaganda

>>17144461
glownigger says what

>>17144377
>Banning the Odyssey will only make it more powerful
kek I wish it were so. But it kinda feels like the days of literature are a thing of the past. Not that it was ever widely appreciated outside academic contexts, but now even in academic contexts it's being shit on.

>>17144426
Internet communists love free speech

>B-but those aren't real leftists
Possibly, but they are the majority of people calling themselves leftists right now so your movement has a bit of a problem either way.

>>17144515
These are from a quick google search. I also remember when the /r/communism subreddit had "Free speech is a bourgeois myth, all speech has class character/the personal is political" as one of its first rules. No I don't use reddit I'm not gay, I just saw screenshots.

>>17144472
No doubt. Mostly nosy white people thinking they know what's best.

>>17144486
Twitter libs aren't leftists. Textbooks are already thinly veiled Neoliberal propaganda. Mine was published by general electric and stopped at Reagan.
My children will have the tools and resources to forge their own worldview independent of Twitter shit or its deranged cousin pol shit.
>>17144499
That's sad. I kinda disagree though, millnials and zoomers seem statistically to be more into libraries and literature than boomers who buy Walmart propaganda books at least.

jesus christ jannies, no thread ever needed a nuke like this one did

>>17144547
Leftist thought is already propaganda of the most mind rotting kind.

>>17144547
That’s good what you’re doing but most kids will be brainwashed and that shouldn’t be.

>>17144515
>>17144520
Interesting. I wonder how much influence China has on the place.
Regardless, you won't find an influential leftist doing anything other than supporting free speech. The godfather of American Leftism Noam Chomsky even advocated for the rights of a frog holocaust denier, took a lot of shit for it too. He organized a letter in defense of Pinker against the liberal twitter mob too.

Idk, it's complicated to say the least. Fuck off with all the "movement" shit though. Leftism enjoyed a resurgence under Trump's bafoonery but it will be temporary and most will slip back into Apathy and online mob justice sadly.

>>17144577
There was no resurgence, chapo leftism is the same as internet radlib values, the only difference is what language they think is appropriate.

>>17144570
If you say so. I don't religiously adhere to it, it just helps me contextualize world events. Gotta be better than "redpills" that don't hold up to an encyclopedia or internet search though. Right?

>>17144576
Yeah, you're absolutely right. I plan to oppose any major threats to any freedoms though. This is very isolated, and slippery slope is a well-known bias in thought that generally is either A. Not true or B. Really misses alot of relevant factors.

>>17144590
I don't know what the fuck chapo shit is. I typically do leftist discourse IRL, IRC, and on Libgen. I can assure you that /pol/ is typically quite wrong though, if you're rederring to some meme worldview you borrowed.

>>17144331
basé
not like you burgers were reading it in the first place

>>17144606
Dude if you’ve been paying attention for the last ten years you’d know that there is something of a slippery slope going on. Obama ran against gay marriage in 08’ and now his vp is going to be president supporting puberty blockers for 8 year olds. It’s real.

>>17144640
See when you say shit like "supporting puberty blockers for 8 year olds." I get a little suspicious. Sure, that may be a real occurence in some very isolated fashion, but generally there's an extensive process to get on any kind of radical treatment.
I think boys can be born feeling and behaving like girls. Humans are complex and we really don't have any better treatment to avoid suicide. I don't exactly see how it's catastrophic to peaceful society. What we should be doing is making sure these children are protected from abusive parents who brainwash them into transgenderism. I think mist psychiatrists would pick up on that though.

>>17144606
Either you're 14 or you haven't been paying attention. The "slippery slope is a fallacy" fallacy is brought to you by the same people who want state-enforced homosexual education for children. The same people who will be normalizing paedophilia (can't happen amiright).

>>17144677
WWG1WGA

>>17144671
>I think boys can be born feeling and behaving like girls.
If so then gender identity is biological, not socially programmed. But gender is a social construct! Face it, all of this nonsense is just a current mania that will look ridiculous one day.

>>17144671
>there's an extensive process
Not if you're in Canada. Over there if your 12-year-old child wants hormone treatment because a teacher brainwashed them to meet a quota, you have to say yes or they take your child away.

>>17144671
>children are protected from abusive parents who brainwash them into transgenderism. I think mist psychiatrists would pick up on that though.
hopefully yes, but what if a profit motive gets in the way of that. look at something like circumcision for an example of something that has dubious medical use but makes $$$ for the medical industry.

>>17144684
Saying that the state wants to indoctrinate children with homosexual education is not the same as believing in Q

>>17144695
yeah that is true, it is absolutely crazy whats going on with that stuff in canada

>>17144640
I laughed when my parents brought up the slippery slope argument and thought they were dumb boomers back when gay marriage was legalized, but that was only because I didn't have a problem with gay marriage.
The people started talking about trans rights and bathrooms and my parents went "see? I told you so!" And I laughed them off
But now they're decriminalizing giving someone HIV on purpose, mandating parents give children hormone treatments in Canada if they ask for it, there's the MAP/NOMAP degenerates on Twitter, and a movie where 14-year-old girls shake their asses at the cameras for 90 minutes is on the largest paid streaming platform on the planet, and I'm laughing at myself.

>>17141523
Back in 2013 this would’ve made a huge splash all over the internet. Now it barely gets squeezed the opinion section of wsj, and a semi off topic thread on /lit/

Whatta time.

>>17144687
Yeah, I think gender identity is both biological and social, as most things are. Humans have always had intersex and androgynous people. Some who clearly are unhappy being male or female. I really don't care what they do with their body though. I can't fathom why I would care. Because it's awkward?

I think you're right about it all being viewed ridiculousIy one day. Right now, it's more of a fad than anything, but that will die out and new cultural and social movements will emerge. The difderence being, now, the ones who genuinely feel and perceive themselves to be internally different than their external features will have a life line.

>>17144677
>will be

>>17144704
If they really were then there wouldn't be any children transitioning. A child can't consent to that kind of thing and a parent doesn't have the proper perspective.
As they say:
> a transgender 10-year-old is like a vegan cat. We all know who's making the decision.

>>17144695
I can't find too much about that. I see that a 14 year old won a cpurt case against her father, but I didnt look into the details. The way tou say the teachers are meeting a quota, sounds pretty fuckin dumb though. Care to expound?
>>17144704
Medicine for profit is generally a terrible idea. Yeah, that's an issue no doubt, psychiatrists would make more money by keeping the kid on expensive antidepressants rather than helping them transition though, and surgery isn't e extremely common.
>>17144711
Close enough. The state may want to educate kids on homosexuality to prepare them for the fuckin world lol. No one complains when they indoctrinate them to consumerism though.

>>17141782
Anon, I...

>>17144772
The quota was exaggeration of the situation

>>17144772
>psychiatrists would make more money by keeping the kid on expensive antidepressants rather than helping them transition though,

you sure about that? think about it, you're basically committing a person to a lifetime cocktail of hormone managing drugs, as well as the ones to manage the psychological ramifications. it was considered a mental illness clinically up until like 2 years ago so they already have the drugs

>>17144785
Ok. I think most discussion of the situation is an exaggeration of the situation. It's a fad and it comprises an extreme minority of teens. When I was a teen the fad was cutting yourself and listening to MCR. Now kids are larping as the opposite gender some genuinely others not so much. It will die out and Transgenders will remain an extreme minority, but at least the genuine ones will have a pathway towards normal life.

>>17142528
why di you say "tomato" twice

>>17141534
You're right, being an apathetic nihilist who stands for nothing, believes he comes from nothing and will leave behind nothing is better.

>>17142647
They burned the gay shit will keeping the good shit like Storm of Steel

>>17144799
Yes, because hormones are cheap as hell and antidepressants expensive. Maybe many will remain on psychs, but psychiatry is a fairly lucrative career and the majority of them aren't evil pill pushers even if you don't agree with the science of depression and treatment. I personally don't, and believe there could be a way of forming a better mindset to control depression and many mental illness. Apparently though, that's not the case as I've looked into it a bit and found that antidepressants at least help quell suicidal thoughts in a good percentage of patients.

>>17141523
>NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO NOT THE DEAD WHITE MALES.
Kill yourself chud

>>17144801
A 14-year-old child can now decide to receive hormones of theyre considered a "mature minor." No way will that precedent get abused
Yes cutting yourself was all the rage but hormone blockers and gender reassignment cause permanent damage if someone realizes they "fell for the fad"

>>17144811
I know shrinks are not evil pill pushers. Imo the worst you could say is that they are negligent, and to put it more kindly they are overburdened by the demand for mental health resources that they can't meet. so a drug option is better than atalk therapy option. you think there's time for them to sit down and do therapy with every kid who thinks he or she is "trans" and convince them to just take up badminton or whatever? hell no. the real problem is these kids have psychotic parents often single mums, they'll get what they want

>>17144837
Yeah, 14s a bit young to me except in certain cases. Gender surgery's super uncommon though and hormone blockers aren't very damaging in the long run. Surely there's some medical rigour and process to determine whether kids need such. Even stil we're talking a fraction of a minority of kids.

>>17144857
Yeah, there's probably a Munchausen aspect there. These parents were stiol abusive before, and equally psychologically damaging. Look, it's complicated, most endocrinologists reccomend waiting until 18 to start hormone treatment though, and puberty blockers can be reversed later.

>>17144865
> a fraction of the minority of kids
We're doing all this for a fraction of the minority of people so that point doesn't really hold water.
I am all for an informed, consenting adult seeking a receiving treatment. And if a child that's 16-17 years old wants treatment and their parents consent then sure.
But never should a 14-year-old be unnecessarily given control over the rest of their life like that, under any circumstances. Especially not against the wishes of their parents.
It's not about how many do it now, it's about creating an exploitable precedent of law.

>>17144893
Fair enough. Agreed

>>17141604
>One school in Massachusetts?
A lot of negative cultural trends in America, at their inception, were met with similar reactions. It's always Massachusetts, too.

>>17144930
Which ones?

>>17141715
Sure you can, just ban it. The reality is that anyone who would be in a position to react against it buys into the mythology of equality that underlies it.

>>17144930
South Carolina has a couple under their belt, like secession and the nullification crisis.

>>17141647
I'm posting the whole article so people can read it. (I have a bypass paywall extension

Sixth-grade students work on a reading comprehension lesson in Wesley Chapel, Fla., Nov. 20.
Photo: Douglas R. Clifford/Zuma Press
This feature is powered by text-to-speech technology. Want to see it on more articles?
Give your feedback below or email audiofeedback@wsj.com.

A sustained effort is under way to deny children access to literature. Under the slogan #DisruptTexts, critical-theory ideologues, schoolteachers and Twitter agitators are purging and propagandizing against classic texts—everything from Homer to F. Scott Fitzgerald to Dr. Seuss.

Their ethos holds that children shouldn’t have to read stories written in anything other than the present-day vernacular—especially those “in which racism, sexism, ableism, anti-Semitism, and other forms of hate are the norm,” as young-adult novelist Padma Venkatraman writes in School Library Journal. No author is valuable enough to spare, Ms. Venkatraman instructs: “Absolving Shakespeare of responsibility by mentioning that he lived at a time when hate-ridden sentiments prevailed, risks sending a subliminal message that academic excellence outweighs hateful rhetoric.”

The subtle complexities of literature are being reduced to the crude clanking of “intersectional” power struggles. Thus Seattle English teacher Evin Shinn tweeted in 2018 that he’d “rather die” than teach “The Scarlet Letter,” unless Nathaniel Hawthorne’s novel is used to “fight against misogyny and slut-shaming.”

Outsiders got a glimpse of the intensity of the #DisruptTexts campaign recently when self-described “antiracist teacher” Lorena Germán complained that many classics were written more than 70 years ago: “Think of US society before then & the values that shaped this nation afterwards. THAT is what is in those books.”

>>17144955
Jessica Cluess, an author of young-adult fiction, shot back: “If you think Hawthorne was on the side of the judgmental Puritans . . . then you are an absolute idiot and should not have the title of educator in your twitter bio.”

An online horde descended, accused Ms. Cluess of racism and “violence,” and demanded that Penguin Random House cancel her contract. The publisher hasn’t complied, perhaps because Ms. Cluess tweeted a ritual self-denunciation: “I take full responsibility for my unprovoked anger toward Lorena Germán. . . . I am committed to learning more about Ms. Germán’s important work with #DisruptTexts. . . . I will strive to do better.” That didn’t stop Ms. Cluess’s literary agent, Brooks Sherman, from denouncing her “racist and unacceptable” opinions and terminating their professional relationship.

The demands for censorship appear to be getting results. “Be like Odysseus and embrace the long haul to liberation (and then take the Odyssey out of your curriculum because it’s trash),” tweeted Shea Martin in June. “Hahaha,” replied Heather Levine, an English teacher at Lawrence (Mass.) High School. “Very proud to say we got the Odyssey removed from the curriculum this year!” When I contacted Ms. Levine to confirm this, she replied that she found the inquiry “invasive.” The English Department chairman of Lawrence Public Schools, Richard Gorham, didn’t respond to emails.

“It’s a tragedy that this anti-intellectual movement of canceling the classics is gaining traction among educators and the mainstream publishing industry,” says science-fiction writer Jon Del Arroz, one of the rare industry voices to defend Ms. Cluess. “Erasing the history of great works only limits the ability of children to become literate.”

He’s right. If there is harm in classic literature, it comes from not teaching it. Students excused from reading foundational texts may imagine themselves lucky to get away with YA novels instead—that’s what the #DisruptTexts people want—but compared with their better-educated peers they will suffer a poverty of language and cultural reference. Worse, they won’t even know it.

>>17144955
>>17144960
It will be critical for a Progressive regime that wants to arrest or reverse the sort of decline visible here to forcibly remove women from all forms of employment outside of caregiving.

>>17144955
>Absolving shakespeare of responsibility
Lol there's nothing to absolve him of, try leveling an actual material accusation at him you fucking idiots.
>He had a mansplaining joke in Hamlet before there was a word for it.
>He had an African leading role in Orlando.
>Several powerful female leads across several plays.
>homosexual supporting role in Merchant in Venice, with several other subversively homosexual roles throughout his work
Just admit you got retroactively dunked on so hard by a dead guy that didn't have electricity or modern plumbing that you can't even figure out a rebuttal with your whole life ahead of you.
Also, I thought shakespeare was a black woman? Make up your minds. These are the people coronavirus should be killing.
I'm fucking sick of this shit. Stop making excuses for your stupidity and just admit that your a net negative for society.
Worse than than that, you're such an inconsequential identity that people just let you be a net negative because you're not worth the hassle.

>>17145013
.
>He had a mansplaining joke in Hamlet before there was a word for it.
>He had an African leading role in Orlando.
>Several powerful female leads across several plays.
>homosexual supporting role in Merchant in Venice, with several other subversively homosexual roles throughout his work
While I'm sure you mean well here, even engaging in this sort of dialogue legitimizes their actions. It is the literary equivalent of "No, YOU'RE the real racist!", as it legitimizes "Hate!" as a serious moral concern existing today, as opposed to mindless resentment.

>>17145036
>legitimizes their action
No it doesnt, it creates a front to fight from when we currently have none.
Stop getting in the way with moral victories, this is warfare on a cultural landscape and they just listed Shakespeare as a political objective.

>>17144987
I know this is a meme post but sometimes I do wonder if putting women into the workforce wasn't a massive mistake.

>>17144955
>>17144960
Alright, I'm ready to stop being a leftist now. I read through this shit on Twitter, actually had to make one just to look and I can't fucking stand this shit. I get why you fags are the way you are. Holy shit Twitter is fucking cancer. I'm about to embrace Posadism as my final cope. I feel filthy. Holy shit. Fuck liberals.

>>17145327
You don't have to be far right to think #DisruptTexts is a shitty idea.

>>17145046
go get em soldier boy, win that war

>>17141728
if they are dead and they outsell you 1000 to 1 its time to change careers

>>17141913
have you not been paying attention they can just ban payment processing and not allow you to own a bank account

>>17144577
>Chomsky
>leftist
Wow, who would've thought that a leftist would shill uncle Joe?

>>17145802
>Just create your own bank and internet infrastructure, chud

>>17141634
She has a pretty cumshotable face.

>>17143342
When Paris gets Aphrodite'd away from the duel with Ajax, he ended up in Helen's bedchamber and they immediately fuck, but there's not really a description of it.

>>17146009
I remember fapping to that

>>17145802
Learn how to make cryptos nigga