/lit/ - Literature

I'm basically a Qur'an expert just from laughing at it. Go with the Bible, trust me on this.

>>17114013
Holy Bible

Quran is pedo Christian fanfiction just above par with The Book of Mormon

>>17114013
The Quran is actually pretty interesting as it appeals to the subconscious rather than to reason, primarily because reason can be used even against logic. Most of the beauty of the Quran can only be found in its linguistics, which actually became the basis of Arabic speech and all of its modern rules are taken from the Quran, so if you end up reading it only in English then that beauty will be lost to you, especially if you go into it with preconceived notions planted by western media and the church.

>>17114146
sorry meant to say reason can be used against the truth

>>17114033
>Quran is pedo Christian fanfiction just above par with The Book of Mormon
he/she/it didn't ask this

Enters the Room

>>17114146
The original Qur'an didn't have any rules, that's why you get different translations depending on the scholar because they didn't have any punctuation at the time to understand what the words truly meant. It's also not beautiful in any sense of the word, it repeats a lot of the same words in the hadiths and when you do this it loses the poetic prose known by the pre-islamic Arabs, the Qur'an would have been considered very low quality literature by them. Imagine a rap song that repeats the same words for rhyming and that's what it is. It says a lot of incredibly stupid/contradictory things like the sun setting in murky water or the earth being flat or Mohammad being in the womb for several years before being born or sperm comes from your backbone and a female's collar bone, etc. Don't waste your time on it, Mohammad's cult will be dead very soon now that the Islamic world has access to the internet.

>>17114013
The Islamic literary tradition may be sophisticated, but that doesn't stop it from being full of shit.
This year has been a great time for watching Jay Smith, Hatun Tash, Al Fadi, Mel (?) and to a lesser extent, David Wood, tear Islam's literary tradition a new asshole.

>>17114013
Weren't both written by jews therefiore they both have the same inherent lack of literary quality?

>>17114251
Actually, Muhammad wasn't a Jew. It's speculated that he was part Persian, and the other part was some sort of Arab, either Lakhmid, Tayyaye and/or Nabatean.
The Nabateans we're quite Jewy in their lifestyle though, merchantile diaspora to boot.

>>17114251
>Jewish = Bad
>Thinks the Qur'an is Jewish
This is your brain on /pol/

>>17114013
The bible obviously

>>17114251
>>17114313
Let's clear one thing up about what Islam is and was intended to be.
Islam was intended to be a politically expedient synthesis of Semitic belief systems (heterodox Christianity, Judaism, and Sabianism, speculated to refer to the Mandaeans), which was meant to serve as a justification and a unifying factor for Arabs during a time in which they were throwing off the shackles of living under the yoke of the Sassanids and Byzantines (who had at that time weakened themselves with successive wars).
That's all Islam is. There was no true, divine revelation behind it. Muhammad is a legendary figure and a literary fabrication, the man who actually began Islam was not a backward, illiterate Hejazi, he was an incredibly adept statesman in the Lakhmid vassal state of the Sassanids.

>>17114013
The Quran is so bad that it even forget to mention what 10 commandments are exactly. How the fuck do you even forget to mention something like that? No wonder muzzies are always murdering. Their holy book completely forget to tell them not to.

>>17114248
All the names you mentioned have gotten their arguments thoroughly thrashed by Muslims at Speakers Corner such as Mansur Ahmad, Mohammed Hijab, Ali dawah, Hamza, Tahir Abbas, Bilal Bidat, Shamsi, Farid Responds, Abdul Hamid, etc. Yet they ignore these refutations and run to other arguments when they see they have no ground, or repeat them when they think everyone has forgotten. Oh! May Allah have mercy on the righteous refuters of the polytheists!

>>17114365
>How the fuck do you even forget to mention something like that?

>Found a religion
>Insist that it should be an oral tradition
>Use it to justify multiple wars of conquest
>Lose 70 people who were familiar with parts of the oral tradition in a single battle
>Finally write it down, except your script doesn't have diacritics yet, leaving much of the text to interpretation.
>Go through several purges and proliferations

>>17114377
lmao, you actually think the critics have been refuted? All of your buddies like Hijab have done is say "no that's wrong because our tradition teaches that this is right" before spooling off the same old fantasies they've blindly followed for centuries.

>>17114357
t. nimwit

The tanakh is the greatest book in history

>>17114377
Answer these questions.
1) Which Qira'at?
2) Why?
3) If not the Hafs, then how do you justify even the Saudis choosing that as their standard?

>>17114357
I agree with the first half, however I believe that Mohammad did exist. I have heard of the Nabatean theory where Mohammad was invented over there since he refers to the three daughters of allah (the nabatean god) and the fact that all of the qiblah face Petra. But these were relatively civilised places, there's no way you could make up the stupidity in the Qur'an or believe it if you lived up north away from the Bedouin desert Arabs in the south.
>>17114377
You'd have to be in serious denial to believe that any of those got thrashed. Listen to the opposing arguments for once and address them, if they actually did that we wouldn't have an excuse to constantly destroy Islam.

>>17114181
This makes no sense, might be a translation issue on my end.

>>17114419
I don't think Muhammad himself was a Nabatean, but I think it's clear that the Nabateans fed into the stream of what became Islam. But Petra was in decline at the time.
I don't think the Tayyaye, who likely had a large part to play in early Islam, were much more literate than the Bedouins to their south (they originated down there prior and had moved up to the borders with the Lakhmids).
Lastly, I think a lot of the inconsistencies introduced came about during the tectonic shifts between the first three Caliphates - particularly during the Abbasid ascendancy - for political expedience.
It's not necessarily that those civilised Arabs who lived north of the peninsula, in contact with the Sassanids and Byzantines, weren't literate or educated - of course many of them were - but it's that literary matters weren't their primary focus for the first century or so of Islam, they were an afterthought.

>>17114478
Interdasting, I'll have to look into this more. I know there's a few people working on these theories, notably Jay Smith, who was on CIRA International with Al Fadi explaining new discoveries. There could be a lot of substance to them. I wouldn't trust a Muslim to explain Islam's history or his book, so it's definitely possible the conventional narrative is bogus.

>>17114033
Based.
Worst book I've ever read

>>17114419
I've watched dozens of their videos and all they do is misquote, misrepresent, strawman, and proselytize their hatred of Islam under a curtain of emotional arguments and fallacies. They count on dimwits like you in their christian/atheist audience to lap up everything they say without doing the proper research because if you did it would completely destroy their credibility in your view.

Just watch some of Farid's videos, or are you gonna be the pot who called the kettle a nigger and not do as you preach?

The Holy Bible is a liturgical book. This question doesn’t even make sense.

>>17114608
Give one example of any of these accusations. It was people like David Wood and Hatun who forced Yasirqadi to admit there's "holes in the narrative" after many years of pointing it out, otherwise he wouldn't have admitted it to an audience of angry Muslims who wanted answers after all this time. I've watched hundreds of Muslims try to explain inconsistencies in the Qur'an but nobody has managed to do it.

Why won't any of your top scholars debate Christian Prince? He's been converting Muslims to Christianity for years now, you'd think they'd accept his challenges to debate from all the damage he's done, but they know their careers are on the line if they do it.

>>17114033
whereas the old testament is just straight up incest

>>17114169
he/she/it didn't need to