/lit/ - Literature

i can sort of get why chubby checker or sth would piss him off, but hating on jazz? lmao and that dude has the nerve to bitch about the bourgeoisie?

>>17106635
music I like good
music I don't like bad

>>17106645
Chubby Checker is less offensive than jazz precisely because no one pretends that his work is serious art.

>>17106635
Did free jazz retroactively refute him?

>>17106671
No, later versions of jazz only proved him correct as it took challenging musical ideas and made them easily consumable.

>>17106635
Jazz is too canine for my taste.

>>17106660
i'm actually willing to entertain the idea that jazz sucks and is just an over-glorified jam session by bands that don't know enough tunes to last the night, but i'm resistant to hearing it from some "german" dickhead in a suit

>>17106681
>free jazz
>easily consumable
Pseud spotted

>>17106695
It's probably the most easily consumable kind of experimental music ever made, not to say that the various forms of experimental rock are any better.

>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EstPgi4eMe4

this is literally just a guy pretending to play the piano but we have to pretend its good

>>17106739
>pretending
He's doing very precisely while still maintaining the elements essential to all jazz that make it eminently consumable.
No matter how hard it tries to be otherwise, it's still a toe-tapper.

>>17106739
youre retarded, hes incredibly talented

>>17106635
Jazz is ironically Critical Theory in musical form.

>>17106753
he's literally a jazz larp dude he can't play

>>17106739
this is what happens when you removed God from life. philosophy collapses, music collapses, art collapses. the only thing that remains are theoretical forms collapsing in on themselves with no central point.

>>17106770
because art doesn't exist in a relation to a higher principle, it's simply art for art's sake. as is philosophy for philosophy's sake. but this is in reality a vacuum, a nothingness, it exists only as a commentary, a relation to other relations. it's empty of content.

>>17106770
>tradcath LARPer enters the thread

>>17106770
ironically it seems like only high art or fine art or whatever you want to call bourgeois shit that has suffered, the proletariat still likes stuff that's beautiful and sounds good

>>17106792
>the proletariat still likes stuff that's beautiful and sounds good
yes they're all listening to Mozart and Brahms everyday instead of rap music

>>17106807
the masses listen to rap music that sounds good to them, only the nerdiest "hip hop head" forces themselves to listen to rap that sounds like shit

>>17106781
critics and gatekeepers then cannot make judgements except in relation to other art. there is no principle by which to make a judgement. and emerging artists then can only advance by subverting the previous order. but since the previous order is already a subversion of previous order, what we have is a subversion of a subversion. if this theory is correct one would expect to see art and even philosophy in general to become, over time, more abstract, more shocking, less aesthetically conventional and eventually even entering into a self-negation territory as a necessary subversion of previous order ie non-philosophy as philosophy, non-art as art. And this is exactly what we observe.

>>17106820
i think the "art is whatever we put in a gallery and call art so lets get wacky" stage already peaked with modernism, today you see plenty of normal representational art and shit, i bet if we browse whatever is on gagosian's site rn it will be mostly nice looking stuff suitable for a luxury condo

>>17106820
this in itself is simply a process of dialectic, namely of the dialectical strand that began as pure opposition to God, playing itself out in its own self-negation. one can see this self-negation across the board in different subsets of our society as we slowly enter a new era. this new era will re-assert normativity, common sense and reason and rationality in their proper state. of course people who think this will be a return to some kind of baroque tradcath fantasy are mistaken, it will in fact be both more radically truthful to the source of baroque tradcath larping and umistakingly new at the same time. but this is the inevitable move of our history. whether that takes place under our own culture or under a foreign one is yet to be decided by our actions, but the re-assertion of normativity is inescapable.

>>17106849
here you go, technically proficient naturalism, traditional composition, but with twist to subvert expectation, "a sense of play" etc.

one thing i notice tho is that so many of these new paintings have that really flat light, is that just going to be some "21st century light" of the fluorescent open office / gallery / classroom, or do ppl just not have the technical skill to do something better

he hated Stravinsky even more

>>17106891
Its because they use fotos

>>17106891
>"21st century light"
I think it has more to do with the digital environment where these new artists grow. Both of those paintings seems out of a LoL character page.
There's a similar thing going on in cinema. Digital cameras don't have that "sense of sharp contrast/dept" of an analog one (I'm a filmlet, so maybe I'm talking shit, but it's my impression).
The art of our times is vapid, shallow, artificial. It's like a competition: who can make it more shallow.

>>17106849
https://gagosian.com/exhibitions/

Doesn't look like it. We are not necessarily in "whatever" phase, though that logic still applies when speaking simply of aesthetical conventions, but it is far from "whatever" when it comes to the actual selection of art. This now has to be also "woke" but filtered through bourgeois sensibilities. It really just reflects the gatekeepers' sensibilities which are usually just liberal rich white girls and homosexual men. Ultimately what you end up with, is a sort of mix where it has to be at least a little subversive of convention, woke, yet also appealling to rich white class' sensibilities in a way that can make them feel morally good about themselves. Actual convention or assertion of a principle is an obvious impossibility in contemporary art, unless it exists in an obviously ironic or transgressive way. as mainly a commentary on relations and existing strictly in a relation to other relations, contemporary art has the burden of ever being new and subversive of previous new subversions. It's a game that is ultimately empty of content. This game is perfectly understandable from within the echo-chamber, it can be justified with a vast complex apparatus of Theory, but there is also that moment when you are frankly just in front of a piece of music, or painting or any art form in 1-to-1 relation, in that moment of existence in a vacuum between the object and the subject, where the vast ideological apparatus of Theory is momentarily suspended, it strikes a human, and rightly so, that this is utterly ridiculous.

>>17106770
Absolutely a brainlet take.

>>17106995
Only midwits think otherwise because of how obvious it is by now. It might have been acceptable to think otherwise in 19th century or up to 1980 even but not anymore.

>>17106995
wrong. here's something contemporary that's "beautiful" and guess what, it's overtly religious.

>>17106950
The art of our time is not shallow. It exists in an interweb of relations that do not refer to any principle except to the subversion of previous assertions. The end result of this subversion of subversions is the collapsing-in-on-itself abstraction which is only momentarily interrupted by subversion through self-negation (which sometimes results in a novel way of approaching the subject, a bit like re-arranging the chairs on Titanic, but ultimately continues on the same path and ultimately serves only as a limiting subversion against the old order). Now when this is finally consummated, a new normative/asserted reality will emerge.

>>17107064
theres a nigger there, so its far from beautiful.

>>17107086
i actually think most art is extremely traditional and always referencing old shit. this statue might look like some shit out of a factory, and that's because it might be, but it's not different from the secular dutch paintings of a table of meat brought back from the hunt, both represent the output of a days labor based on the mode of production of the day, arranged in as pleasing a manner as possible.

>>17107114
>extremely traditional
>>17107114
>and always referencing old shit

Two different things. There is no doubt that modern art refers to previous work, however it is always in a position of subversion by necessity.

>>17107114
>both represent the output of a days labor based on the mode of production of the day

This is the kind of theoretical apparatus that forever removes our ability to say something about art from a as-it-is subject-object position.

>>17106754
>eminently consumable
>a toe-tapper
Nietzche rocks up to the concert hall of life with his own ghetto blaster.

>>17106891
This is somehow worse than abstract art.

>>17107169
bro i pirated some flacs of nietzsche's piano compositions, it didn't blow my mind

>>17107189
I agree. It's the wow-like characteristics as someone mentioned and it looks plastic. The theme also looks banal.

>>17107169
i wish nietzsche's compositions went that hard

>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75tpBvtkPUM

>>17107160
>This is the kind of theoretical apparatus that forever removes our ability to say something about art from a as-it-is subject-object position.

i guess then only completely uneducated babes can speak on art in that way, ironic

>>17107231
no that doesn't follow.

>>17107086
>the subversion of previous assertions
One of those assertions being "dept". I mean, these people grew up in environments where the image was everything, literally everything, I think they carry that judgement, that everything is its "external image" (so to say), and there's no dept there. Maybe like a way of saying "our world is not deep". I don't know, I'm thinking out loud. Hope someone with more brains than me catch on what I'm trying to say. When I said that the art of our times is shallow I didn't say as a bad thing per se, maybe is the art we deserve.

>>17107252
ok but why is religious art deep? it's just really well done illustration of a biblical story. the story might be deep, but why is that specific painting deep? if michaelangelo did a painting of a scene from star wars would it be deep? honestly idk im axin u

>>17106950
Digital cameras are actually sharper, which is not always looked for, and can be prevented by using vintage lenses

>>17107263
Because the Bible is "the real thing", so to say. Star Wars is done on an age where we are aware of what a mythos is, how you construct one, and their artificiality. Ffs didn't George Lucas read Campbell before writing SW? The Bible has an unique charm because the fact that those stories were past for centuries in oral form help one build a better "sense of disbelief". SW is the artistic creation of one man sitting on a room, regurgitating was already has been done, filtered through a theoretic framework, but adapting it to a new medium, and being "epic cinema", a lot is losed on the way, because on cinema you have to take a lot of concessions from the public. You have to make it "entertaining", "enjoyable" for a wide audience, which narrows the artistic vision of the creator.
A painting of SW is kind of the picture of a picture.
Anyway, I love Star Wars.

>>17107268
Maybe it has more to do with the lightning, idk, I can't express myself, I don't have the vocabulary to tak about it. I'm a retard when it comes to visual medium, forgive me for my retardness, I just wanted to throw in my two cents to an interesting topic.

>>17107365
it depends on the movies, though I don't know what you mean by current cinema (I for once don't watch any Avengers type stuff). On this days artsy cinema there's tons of variety and plenty of directors still shoot in film (PTA). I actually like digital but it can get plasticky, that's why I film stuff with cheap Minolta lenses.

burn down the disco
hang the dj -

adorno

>>17106635
Why is /lit/ shitposting with Adorno recently ?
I won't like, i like it.

>>17109796
they decided to finally read one of these "le cultural marxists" dr. peterson has said so much about and went with him because they heard he doesnt like jazz or pop culture

>>17106656
fpbp

>>17109812
>NOOO STOP DEVELOPING A NUANCED VIEWPOINT YOU NEED TO REMAIN A CLICHE SO I CAN DISMISS YOU

>>17107106
based

>Adorno's mother was a catholic Corsican
>my favorite jew isn't jewish
I'm going to fucking kill myself i thought i had stopped being anti-semetic

>>17110185
based where?

>>17110244
He’s the only frankfurter I like because fortunately he was only half jew

>leave jazz to us
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m01lPNVv90s

>>17106770
lmaoin gat this nigger take

>>17106770
>NOOOOO WHY DON'T PEOPLE CARE ABOUT MUH KIKE FAIRY TALE ANYMORE WAHHH
Kys LARPer faggot

>>17106890
Mostly true, but things could get even worse.>>17106891

>>17110270
Horkheimer is as based desu. I can't really stand marcuse though,just cause he supported really cringe caused, but Horkheimer criticized him as well. Haven't read Benjamin but I've heard great things

>>17110922
horkheimer's writings on instrumental rationality are good

Has anyone read Aesthetic Theory? How hard is it compared to something like DOE, or ND(ive read the former but ive heard the latter is fucking hard as hit)

>>17111221
I'm reading it and barely understand anything but I keep going because how of passionate he is about modern art

>>17106635
based jew taking a massive shit on niggers

>>17111232
Based. that's basically what i did the first time i read DOE and i ended up picking up a lot despite not understanding everything, and every subsequent reading cleared things up.

>>17106688
based my fellow gusicposter

Everything is fascist

>>17111535
fascism preys on vulnerable psychological traits with lies and propaganda.

>>17106635
All music that isn't Bach (PBUH) is shit. Bach (PBUH) solved music, so any music made after him is equally shit therefore equally good depending on your taste. Adorno was just a proto /mu/tard that couldn't cope with this and needed to make some bullshit theory as to why the music he didn't like was shit and why the music he liked was good. He had to make up bullshit like truth content which was already refuted by nonconventional jazz and pop music.

>>17111560
>nonconventional jazz
But Adorno debunked the existence of "nonconventional jazz" . It's also funny you differentiate between jazz and popular music, which is actually an incorrect thing to do and if you could go and ahead and correct yourself we'd appreciate it.

>>17106635
He’s absolutely right.
Is liking metal based or cringe?

>>17106739
I like that though, it sounds like fucked up mario underground music

>>17106770

Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.

Surely some revelation is at hand;
Surely the Second Coming is at hand.
The Second Coming! Hardly are those words out
When a vast image out of Spiritus Mundi
Troubles my sight: somewhere in sands of the desert
A shape with lion body and the head of a man,
A gaze blank and pitiless as the sun,
Is moving its slow thighs, while all about it
Reel shadows of the indignant desert birds.
The darkness drops again; but now I know
That twenty centuries of stony sleep
Were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle,
And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?

>>17111836
Speaking purely objectively, liking anything but classical music is cringe. Even modernist classical is debatable. Metal, pop, jazz, rock, punk, etc. is all consumerist, manufactured garbage directed at a specific demographic. You either change your entire definition of art or accept that literally everything but classical is objectively garbage.

>>17111560
>All music that isn't Bach (PBUH) is shit. Bach (PBUH) solved music
this but unironically

>>17109777
kek, mozpilled

>>17111859
>implying mozart wasn't writing his symphonies and concertos to fit the demands of consumerism in late 18th century Vienna high society

>>17111859
this. I can't go back after developing a taste for classical, but at the same time it's alienating because people resent you if you say you like classical music and automatically assume you're a smug faggot, even if you are (I am)

>>17111859
What you should have said was Gregorian plainchant and visionary works like Sibyl of the Rhine. Although it's debatable whether religious music is free from a desire to please a consumer, I think it's possible to transcend

>>17111859
Anon you replied to here.
I agree. I only like classical. But sometimes I like heavy metal in certain situations that require me to go BERSERK

>>17111919
>>17111859
what about /mu/core

>>17111945
No opinion desu. I just listen to my local classical radio station (ad-free)
I do like Sinatra though

>>17111958
Sinatra is great. Classical radio is great. I love stuff from any genre

>>17111892
This literally doesn't matter. Classical music is objectively seen as good. People that are knowledgeable in music theory and aesthetics will not disagree with this. Pop music is hilariously simple in comparison to classical music, even meme shit like prog, avant-prog, technical death metal, etc. doesn't even get close. It's just something else. This is why I said you either change your whole definition of art or you get stuck being a lewronggenerationfag, but even worse, since people will relate way more to dadrock than classical music for obvious reasons.
It is something that we either overcome (don't worry because we already have. classical music is purposely overlooked and we claim shit like The Beatles or Tyler the Creator are musical achievements worth caring about) or cope with (what I do).
>>17111901
It is. It's even worse when you still like modern music. What do you do when you've made a (strong) emotional bond with modern music? You may make fun of someone that likes Linkin Park, but isn't, say, King Crimson basically Linkin Park tier compared to Mozart? I love composers like Des Prez, Palestrina, Monteverdi, etc. but I don't give two shits about God, other than as an interesting historical context and a source of inspiration for composers. Am I dishonest in my appreciation? Will I never "get" it? Should I stick to modern music? But isnt it way worse? Should I adapt to this worseness, and appreciate it's difference rather than notice its failing to live up to standards? This is a deep existential crisis that haunts me. I don't want to LARP as a christfag aristocrat """patrician""" (I don't find the act of listening to certain music special at all, I find it rather masturbatory) like some insufferable faggots on this site do, but I can't ignore how much worse modern music is, compositionally speaking., even if I like it and relate to it. There's also the fact that nothing like classical music will happen again, there's probably not going to be another Bach, and if there is he won't be making anything similar to him. What gives? Art was a mistake. Capitalism was a mistake too. I deeply regret my attachment to these products and not being able to tell if its genuine or not, or even if my appreciation for older music is genuine or not, since it's obviously been commodified as well; you aren't really supposed to be able to listen to Beethoven 7th any time you want, wherever you want. I cope by pretending it's all subjective, and continue to painfully enjoy what I enjoy.

>>17111892
Adorno never demies this and specifically covers the way in which art's relation to the consumer changed under The Culture Industry. Actually read the fucking essay dude, it's not that long.

>>17106739
Cecil Taylor is one of the GOATs.

>>17112019
>you aren't really supposed to be able to listen to Beethoven 7th any time you want, whenever you want.
I've had this thought. Hearing it for the first time was almost a religious experience to me, especially the final movement with its almost childlike ecstatic joy, but having heard it so many times it's lost its luster for me, which shouldn't really be the case. It feels genuinely bad knowing that I'll never hear these masterpieces with fresh ears ever again. The St Matthew Passion was the same, the first movement especially. I was in high school at the time and was just beginning to fall in love with classical music, and hearing that opening chorus for the first time made me feel entirely new emotions. I'd never heard anything that sounded so august and profoundly serious before in my life. It's also why I like introducing my friends to classical music, because I want them to experience this stuff. I don't want to miss out on it. It's just as worth experiencing as anything else.

>>17112019
You're understanding is on the right path but you're still not quite there. Read more Adorno. The "simplicity" of pop music isn't what Adorno criticizes, it's the fact that "pop music" isn't actually music that serves to bring pleasure it's used as an extension of work and to embed social cues. Jazz can be much more complex than mozart but its goal isn't the same as mozart or beethoven's music, it's to be consumed and to mix with that consumption specific social messaging.

I'm a brainlet, so is he pretty much criticizing pop culture and music being a product? Jazz was the pop music when he wrote the essay probably, or maybe he hated it because it mimicked classy high art while being middle brow. Idk though. Also some anti capitalist stuff. I'll read the book soon

>placement

>>17112079
Adorno notes both the death of genuine popular music and the death of serious music by turning both into tools for domination. It isn't that domination wasn't part of art before, he's not a reactionary claiming that music was more "pure" before than it is now. It's just that now the lie, the domination, the evil in music and art is all that music and art has become.

>>17106635
Jazz is okay as long as it doesn't take itself too seriously

>>17112019
>you either change your whole definition of art or you get stuck being a lewronggenerationfag, but even worse, since people will relate way more to dadrock than classical music for obvious reasons.
>It is something that we either overcome (don't worry because we already have. classical music is purposely overlooked and we claim shit like The Beatles or Tyler the Creator are musical achievements worth caring about) or cope with (what I do)

Ok but what if you take the Nietzschean/Wagner route and come to view music as a kind of Dionysian celebration, what if you just positively enjoy and engage with music and maybe even play an instrument to a basically respectable level for an avenue of creative expression? I have gotten far more pleasure from Folk, Rock, Country, alt/indie/whatever you'd like to call it idioms than from classical music, which I also enjoy btw. Music is way better than the theories about it I really believe that.

>>17112073
>but having heard it so many times it's lost its luster for me, which shouldn't really be the case
Exactly. This makes you wonder how much of art appreciation was perhaps exaggeration, and how streaming, downloading, etc. has demystified it all. It really makes you wonder if it was ever actually that special. Sure, there's all this autistic complex theory that tells you why it's good, and complex, and high art, but did Beethoven really want you to think of his music like this? Wouldn't he want you to experience it fully, as a human being, rather than having all this autismo theory on the back on your head? This is why I feel like it's all LARP. I already know why it's good, I already know how complex it all is; the mystery is lost.
>>17112079
I know and understand all of this. That's why I said I'm coping hard. And pop music has obviously evolved since that, but you could still say the same thing about it. Even about less accessible pop music like No Wave, Free Jazz, Avant-Prog, etc. What isn't a method of control for capital anymore? Are the people behind the music even guilty of this? Can they really be blamed for making the music they've always known? Hell, can popstars even be blamed for anything? Even if they've possibly been depersonalized by the system itself? Is it immoral to consume any popular music at all? Should I just give in to the simulation and stop caring? These questions haunt me. I don't even really care if something is "good" or "bad" anymore (can I even know?), but realizing that "true art" just doesn't exist anymore and everything I could possibly enjoy is fake is awful. I don't even dislike rap music, I'm barely elitist at all, I wish art could be a method of expression for all, some poor black kid or some rich white genius. But its all been commodified. Even the actual art.

>>17112137
That sentence is pure bourgeois ideology.
"Philosophy is okay as long as you don't think too much about it"
The eternal "moderation" bro, your post is repulsive, it's disgusting, nietzsche would have spat on you and Adorno would have laughed at your disgusting vulgar trite cliché that you come to share with the rest of the class , positing it as something other than pure masturbatory nonsense. You have nothing to say.

>>17112160
You're like, super cringe dude.

>>17112079
Adorno lived in a time when pop music was those super oldies you hear on weekend radio stations. "she's my baby, she's gonna be my gal" or whatever. Pop developed a lot more meat and gristle and under the surface after the 1940s

>>17112165
I know, I'm slightly drunk and looking for answers. I apologize. I just can't handle this permanent cognitive dissonance.

>>17112160
You're too caught up in your theoretical notions of what art is and the implications. You need to go to a show by a really special band, if it wasn't corona virus I would take you to one maybe even pop a little MDMA

>>17112173
You are incorrect. He died in the 1960s and witnessed the beginnings of rock witnessed jimmie Hendrix and all of that shit positing as complex music with researched lyrics and poetry. He specifically criticized on video rockists getting up on stage mourning the catastrophes of vietnam war. Adorno wasn't naive , wasn't stupid, and had a very fine understanding of all arts at the time.

>>17112161
All I mean is that jazz is fine as long as it remains dance music. If you can't dance to it, I'm sorry but that isn't jazz sweaty. Academic jazz is vomit inducingly cringe.

>>17112215
>I make up categories of music so that I get to keep listening to the garbage music without the guilt feeling

>>17111945
K-pop is the only exception, truly the modern expression of God and beauty.

>>17112210
yeah but he was old... how can some old fart get it?

>>17106754
>He's doing very precisely while still maintaining the elements essential to all jazz that make it eminently consumable.
No matter how hard it tries to be otherwise, it's still a toe-tapper.

>>17112252
Weeew wtf true......

>>17106770
based

>>17112259
Look honestly I've never read a word by the fellow to be honest with you, I just know if he said all pop music is shit and only classical is worthy he was full of it big time. He never got a chance to drop acid in the 60s, even.

>>17106635
what no pussy does to a mf

>>17111859
>metal
>consumerist
pseud detected

>>17112079
>it's to be consumed and to mix with that consumption specific social messaging.
explain how you listen to music without consuming it, when you're not the musician yourself?

I only like certain "Cool Jazz", and "Smooth Jazz", musical artists, and compositions; they evoke a feeling of "soft glory", and appeal to my zodiacal lunar sign, "Leo".

>>17107189
>>17107197
Agreed. At the very least it encourages technical proficiency which is sorely lacking in the art world.

>>17106813
when you listen to a good amount of a specific genre it gets repetitive and unoriginal, and your ears adapt to it's sounds. then your pleasure decreases as the music doesn't challenge you anymore. therefore you start listening to things more abnormal, so you could again experience originality. with time, those again become familiar, and like that you keep pushing the edge. a lot of the times you step in dogshit, and a lot of the times you find treasure.

>>17106849
>>17106960
Artists put in galleries largely lack art skills, problem isn't even what you think it is it's always going to be shit when the artists are unskilled and this is tolerated regardless of trends.

>>17113073
dat is y jazz is good, it avoids 'banality' through emphasis on improvisation, providing you listen to fusion and such which breaks free from the conventional instruments while also not doing away with them in every case.

post jazz musiq

https://youtu.be/fiiWc0jefS8

>>17106739
so the point is that it's formless and takes the meaning of whatever you immediately think it does?

>>17113123
there is no point, its not a conundrum to be solved.

>>17113143
I doubt that

>>17113085
i would argue that every genre is doing so, it's not constrained only to jazz but also hip hop, metal, pop and folk. that's just a concept for any art, not a unique property of jazz.

"It is precisely this culture, coated with a glossy veneer, accompanied by sensational advertisement, handled in the most commercial way and back up and financed by the bourgeoisie, that inundates the cinema and television screens, magazines, newspapers and radio broadcasts, all the mass information and propaganda media. Its objective is to turn the ordinary man into a passive consumer of poisonous bourgeois ideas, and to make this consumption an addiction. Not only have we nothing to learn from this culture, no reason to impart it to our masses and youth, but we must reject it contemptuously and fight it with determinism." - Enver Hoxha

>>17112173
It only became more garish:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-njxKF8CkoU

>>17106770
https://youtu.be/ll3CMgiUPuU

>>17114105
nooo that doesn't count nooo

>>17114105
New age hippy nonsense is a mockery of god.

>>17114130
Cope

>>17114130
>noo it wasn't the REAL god!!!!
I'm convinced commies, nazis, rightoids, and religious people are literally the same thing. The only difference is at least the ones I mentioned aren't LARPing a thousand years old fairy tale.

>>17112306
you're dangerously stupid but i'm even dumber for expecting people on this board to actually have read Adorno before posting in an Adorno thread.

>>17106635
Based negros making faggy kikes seethe.

>>17114207
The later music of John Coltrane and his followers (his wife, Sanders, etc.) is nothing but posturing hippy nonsense over groovy rhythms. There's no god there.

>>17114269
>it's not god because I don't like it
genuinely kill yourself. at least coltrane made fucking something out of his religious delusion rather than LARP on some imageboard all day. there's no god there because there's no god period, it's entirely in your head.

>>17114232
Adorno sucks and should have been murdered in his sleep by horny fascists

It pains me to see Adorno reduced to "le jazz man" and "le cultural marxist man". Its as if he himself has turned into a commodity. He has become a meme that strips the full breadth, depth, and value of his work and distills it into memetic value.

>>17114310
i like it. it encourages people to read him

>>17114310
His famous anti pop music youtube video was pretty big in germany 10+ years ago, he was always a meme here.
That's just what happens when something gets mainstream but edgy teens who are angry at old people radio will always check out his work because of this and Adorno books are everywhere

>>17114310
you have never had sex in your entire life

>>17114310
stfu nerd

>>17112160
>artist I like puts up new album on bandcamp
>listen it for free, enjoy it
>he isn't making a living off of it, has a day job

This doesn't seem to support the culture industry. Plus, there's a lot of new ways of making music that sort of replace the old ones (orchestrating=producing). Although I like Mozart, you have to agree his corpus has plenty of simple music made to be consumed by the aristocracy, but that doesn't make him bad. And the 20th century has equal masterpieces, from composers like Stravinsky, Berg, Messiaen, Ravel, etc.
Finally, be aware that the notion of musical aesthetic has a correlation to mathematics, that's why Renaissance and Modernism are so different.

>>17106656
This. Fuck all autists

what about joanna newsom?

>>17115286
I can literally tell that you've never read a paragraph of actual philosophy, you're just spouting boring cliches m8.
>Mozart Soo simple!!
>Music is math broo!!!
>The 20th century has masterpieces too!!!(as if anyone has denied this, ever)
Shut up your trite pleb, read Adorno for a year, and then maybe you'll have a reasonably interesting thing to say

>>17106770
words words words words.

>>17116017
no arguments here, anyway...
>Mozart Soo simple!!
a lot of his music is (mostly the serenatas, twinkle twinkle variations) and a lot of his is incredibly complex and pictorial (Magic Flute). In fact one of the reasons it may be hard to get into his music is because he had to include plenty of stuff to appeal to his audience, since he was one of the first musicians that tried to be independents. That's exactly why he is genius: he made some of the best music of all time while still gaining popularity (though he wasn't the most famous composer of his time).
>Music is math broo!!!
mathematic and musical thought are constantly linked: from Palestrina's melodies and counterpoint to Renaissance architecture to Babbitt's integral serialism and 20th century mathematics.
>Read Adorno
I read his Theory of Aesthetics, pretty good, I'll read more of him one day

>>17116489
you're just demonstrating your lack of knowledge. every time i ping you u respond with just expanded cliches, you notice that you just repeated your first post except with more words, right?
>I read his Theory of Aesthetics, pretty good, I'll read more of him one day
this is not what someone who's actually read and studied a work of philosophy says, this is what i say to someone who recommends me an opera by Verdi.

>>17106739
>have to

>>17116600
ok

>>17112165
>>17112200
both of you sound like faggots

>>17106770
fuck religion

>>17106792
it all trickles down, they all want to become upper class

>>17117724
>le_fat_man_with_beard_tipping_fancy_hat.jpg

>>17118104
YES

>>17114310
As opposed to his brilliant insight about how anyone with different conceptions of society were secret sexual deviants? Hell, t wouldn't even sell today because the did hate said deviants.
It's a good thing he's reduced to musicology meme where his retardation is just the funny sort of stupid instead of being subversive bullshit.

>>17118176
You can't even write a proper sentence, why do you think you have the capacity to not only understand, but refute Adorno?

>>17118176
authoritarian personality has a lot of good points about what drives people to supporting fascism.

>>17118176
Fascism is a pathology

>>17119395
tru

It’s never not funny that the most conservative, bourgeois, and institutional group of Marxists became such a boogieman for conservatives.

You expect me to believe Adorno, the only major marxist who has a corpus of writing on Beethoven, is the mastermind behind a plot to destroy western culture? The guy who endlessly wrote derisive commentaries on popular movies, music, books, who criticized idiot rubes for reading news paper horoscopes?

Adorno is one of the most forceful defenders of the great works of western art, of being a learned and cultivated person, and critic of the degeneration of art at the hands of capitalism pursuit of profit at all costs.

>>17106635
is there a bigger pseud than adorno?
all his "theory" is basically blogposting his intuitions

>>17114282
I tip in you'r general direction le sir ;)

>>17110271
>leave jazz to us

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_BqufJhHYA