/lit/ - Literature

>>17097316
The one that wasn't a bones man?

>>17097316
Chomsky

Listen to me you queer

Easily Chomsky.

>>17097330
>>17098161

>>17097339

>>17097316
Chomsky

>>17097316
Was Buckley ever right?

>>17099112
He was in the right when he threatened to smash Vidal in the goddamn face.

>>17097316
Rarely do you see such a one sided debate. Chomps wrecked, but somehow Buckley retained his pompous attitude and fake fucking accent. Why fake an accent as an American, I'm so fucking glad that arstocratic intonation finally disappeared.

Chomsky destroyed Buckley. The question is who one this?

>>17099112
his /lit/ interviews are peak comfy but then again politics puts me to sleep

>>17099821
I think Foucault, you could see Chomsky actually having to think deeply. Rare.

>>17097316
Who was in the right?
Buckley: Total warfare on Vietnam is fine because some villagers killed their landlords.

Chomsky: Total warfare against Vietnam is a travesty and small insurrections against truly vicious landlords isn't Communism. The US clearly wants Vietnamese resources and a strong presence in the region. The war is a sham.

Who sounds in the right?

>>17099878
Imperialism is inherently good, but Buckley was inevitably going to fail because he had to justify within the bounds of the post-wwii moral paradigm. Chomsky is wrong in that anything that even slightly adopts communist imagery or terminology needs to be considered communism by entities threatened by it.

>>17099891
Hell yes Patriot. Them Vietnamese communists without a navy was tryna swim over to California and indoctrinate our youth. Put er there friend. We don't want no pinkos in the jungle. Thems our resources.

>>17099900
Yikes.

>>17099907
>>>>>r/blackpeopletwitter

>>17099900
Communism and anarchism are viruses and exist as inherent threats to state societies. If the US were interested in its survival (it's not) it would have long ago declared UC Berkeley as a treasonous entity and used overwhelming military force against it and it's alumni.

>>17099933
Yes patriot. Only Neoliberalism is allowed.

>>17099972
>The only alternative to communism is neoliberalism
I support nationalizing most large industries and forcibly unionizing all workers in industries that remain private. Licenses to operate a business should require oaths of national loyalty, and business leaders who fail to do the national good in the name of profit should be punished. You shouldn't make assumptions about people's politics based on a few statements.

>>17100018
IDK. According to you, Socialists should be erradicated as they're threatening to the Empire.

You're a physical embodiment of contradiction. Your hodgepodge worldview is a mark of ignorance. Scuttle away coward.

>>17100060
That's not a view held exclusively (or held at all considering the popularity of socialist culture that has managed to manifest itself within neoliberal society) by supporters of what could be called neoliberalism. My willingness to recognize the inherent threat of privatisation to the state and empire makes me.more consistent than most.

>>17100139
Yet you claim ideologies that threaten the state even the minimal threat posed by Vietnamese peasants should be forcefully eradicated. In the next breath you advocate for strictly Socialist policies(like those in Vietnam ironically)and add some weak non binding pledge. Yet you think your ideology is immune to your partisan call for murdering dissidents a world over.

You're a contradiction.

>>17100163
>Nationalization and and state enforced unionization are socialist policies, even when they're used as means to prevent workers' influence over the productive forces of society
What's next, you're going to tell me that welfare programs are socialist too? It really isn't surprising that someone as ignorant as you think in some sort of socialism-neoliberalism binary as the range of possibilities for human organization at the present moment. It's as if your sense of imagination has been completely tainted by shitty online conversations.

>>17100163
You sound like a teenager who believes that the only political opinions that exist are the ones he's heard about in school.

>>17099821
I always follow Paglia on Foucoult

>>17100257
Whats her take on him?

>>17100214
You're a bit uneducated about your own ideology aren't you. Read Gentile and Sorel you midwit.
>>17100240
Hello samefag. I'm through playing with you now, I've recognized the depths of your knowledgeband it's severely lacking. You aren't an adequate opponent. Have the day you deserve.

>>17100261
that his whole postmodernist critique is based on a dangerously flawed understanding of history.

>>17100267
>You're a bit uneducated about your own ideology aren't you. Read Gentile and Sorel you midwit.
I’m not a fascist.

>>17100350
Neither were they. They were closer to Syndicalists originally.

>>17100458
why do communists and fascists hate each other so much?

>>17100501
Many reasons. Communism doesn't necessitate authority. Communist theory states society should go from Capitalism to Socialism and finally to true communism which is a stateless, moneyless society. Of course this has never happened, and never will happen as long as Capitslism is thd global mode of production.

Communist theory makes room for democracy and espescially freedom. Fascist theory does not. To further the divide theirs the fact that Russia and Germany fought viciously, causing the death of 26 million Russians. Hitler also blamed Communist on a whole host of evils including the Reichstag fire.

Finally, Fascism isn't very hard on Capitalism. Mussolini and Hitler both left corporate power in tact and both relied on Capitalist support for their regimes. Of the two, Mussolini was much closer to a true socialist. Mainly because Italy already had very powerdul workers unions. Italy and Russia were allies for quite some time due to ideological similarity.

It's a difficult question, the main divide is over ethnocentrism instead of class solidarity. And capitalist production vs complete worker control.

>>17100616
>ethnocentrism instead of class solidarity. And capitalist production vs complete worker control
in both cases the former has the much stronger footing yet somewhat contradictory.

>>17100643
I disagree that ethnocentrism is stronged than class solidarity. I understand where you're coming from, but Corporate media and the state have perpetuated ethnic divides in Liberal Capitalist states. IMO of course. Class solidarity has the benefit of actually opposing the elite and undermining their immense political power as well as combining the whole of a nation toward a goal rather than one particular pampered in-group.

I won't deny that Capitalism produces better in a sense. It produces mostly useless things at the cost pf the domestic population and the benefit of foreign nations. Communism produced what was necessary and even outperformed Capitalism in important areas.

I'm a socialist, because I believe humanity should be united toward a goal of bettering the planet for all. Not profit. Profit is a good motivator though, and I'm flexible and not dogmatic about my beliefs. We're all still learning. I refuse to get into a long shit-fling ITT. I just don't have the energy today.

>>17100458
I'm pretty sure Gentile was as much a fascist as one can be.

>>17100691
But elites are a product of their ethnic group, there are always shifts between these classes up and down, equality is an impossible end and leads to utter misery.
Ethnocentrism is an extremely evolutionarily selected behaviour and those groups that are ethnocentric survive the long term.
the class struggle is better facilitated by correct power hierarchies existing to benefit the long term survival of the group and its genes.

>>17100708
Italian Fascists are historically Socialists. Though, he no doubt was a Fascist as well. He was a new Hegellian.

>>17100755
It developed out of socialism, but considering their violent opposition to socialist groups, I think it would be inaccurate to call them that.

>>17100746
I disagree completely.
Elites are products of systems bit races. Utopian equality isn't being proposed. Only closer equality. Hierarchies of expertise remain in 100% of Socialist thought.

Genes survive. The group is the working class. People aren't innately racist despite your beliefs. 70% of all whites supported BLM for a recenf example. Equality doesnt end in misery by any historical measure. Ethnocentrism destroys all in its egotistical short sightedness.

This is my last reply. Talk about Buckley and Chomps.

>>17100789
Why? Because we shouldn't have to argue off topic political ideology in every fucking thread.

>>17100789
>70% of all whites supported BLM for a recenf example.
the power of indoctrination to support a false narrative, if presented with the actual facts of the case like the drugs in his system instead of the media lies what would have come of it?

>>17099821
It's amazing to me how naive Chomsky seemed in this.

>>17100828
As a doctor, I can tell you that none of the symptoms of fentanyl overdose were present. I can also tell you with complete confidence that a prolonged carotid block can and will kill. Further, it wouldn't have mattered. Drugs or not, the officer acted out of order. I can't deny the plausibility of conspiracy. I seriously doubt it though. I think the real conspiracy is your belief in conspriacy, meant to brainwash you into disunity.

>>17100746
Wealthy whites under capitalism couldn't give two shits about poor whites

>>17099900
Yeah, fuck these Chomsky hating chuds. Probably believe in the Cambodian genocide conspiracy too LOL.

>>17099248
This

>>17099878
Big Bucks Buckley was an American ya faggot

>>17100828
>>17100804
sorry I reacted a little hastily, lets end this train of discussion.
>-----
I've not read much on Buckley since he's outside of my cultural sphere and has connections to unsavoury groups.

Chompsky I've looked at and taken much from his manufacturing of consent.
However his economic ideas are a nonsense and built on a flawed understanding.


>>17100864
the police tapes show he was saying he couldn't breathe while standing up so that breaks part of the narrative that the neck restraint had much to do with it.
your last part is correct that there are pushed conspiracy theorists designed to sow division through identify politics or other means, as an example flat earthers and moon hoaxers are both a product of CIA disinfo schemes
however there most certainly are conspiracies afoot and you are extremely naive to dismiss them, the connections between floyd and the officer prior to the event and their connection to smuggling rings through the oldfellows building are illuminating
but this isn't relevant to this discussion beyond Chompsky's critique of how the media machine is used to manipulate public opinion.

>>17100868
yes, capitalism is flawed, neoliberalism is just gangsterism, but the lure of communism is a dangerous trap. all is founded on the centralisation of power, marx's love of central bankers was an extension.

>>17100943
Perhaps I'm naive but unconfirmed reports of "connections" reeks of disinfo. Perhaps both sides are eqaully untrue. I wonder where Vladislav Surkov got employed after leaving Putin. Americans bu and large aren't racist, I say that as a southerner. It's an obvious result of a colonial society built by immigration. Also, for multiculturalism to be completely unviable, it managed to produce the most powerdul empire in human history.

>>17100872
never got why illiterates believe chomsky denies that genocide, his work on the topic inherently has to assume it took place otherwise it wouldnt make sense to criticise the us for what its actions have lead to

>>17097316
Haven't seen it but Buckley got owned by fucking George Wallace so I assume Chomsky won.

>>17101365
He assumed that it didn't happen until well after there was incontrovertible evidence. He was biased by his own antiamericanism.

>>17100018
Oh so you're a National Socialist. Your politics worships the state, cringe.

>>17099878
Right answer: Vietnam is a waste of effort, if your rivals become Communist, you win, consider bribing Vietnam to take our side against the Soviets.

>>17097316
a kike and a queer, the world lost this one

>>17102655
Yet you slither far beneath either.

>>17102676
find another site to sully, you evil coward

>>17097316

Chomsky is definitely on the left, so the other guy default has to be right.

>>17100943
The Floyd thing was just another crisis actor psyop.

>>17099900
you should probably get a fundamental grasp of geopolitics before you try entering these big boy discussions pal

>>17102980
Get a load of this faggot know nothing kike nigger bitch

>>17102715
This. /thread

>>17099891
>Imperialism is inherently good
Only your personal definition of imperialism though and it only counts if you say so

>>17100018
Nobody fucking cares what you pretend to believe in faggot, do you live your ideals?

>>17097316
Me.

>>17099878
Interventionism and imperialism were done under the false moral pretenses of "stopping communism" out of an altruistic motive to help the Vietnamese people or protect Americans from the spread of harmful ideas, but in reality the motivation was not based in moral principles but rather wanting to maintain material wealth and a exploitative colonial master-slave relationship where they can benefit rather than any sort of moral imperative they may use as a cover to sell to the public

>>17097316
Why the fuck did John Oliver think he had a chance in hell against Buckley

>>17103486
Might makes right, will to power. In the real world, we are animals. We are beasts, dangerous and wild. Without the chains of civilization, we would be consumed by our animal nature because we are animals. The strongest one wins. To advance humanity, we must advance the strongest civilizations to prevent a descent into barbarism. Imperialism and right to conquest can never be eliminated because it is embedded in the nature of the animal kingdom. Warfare is a simulation of that. It is innate. We cannot defeat it. The Vietnamese got crushed by the stronger race.

>>17103541
the vietnamese won the war tho lmao

>>17103545
The US crushed communism and imposed its will upon the entire world because it is the strongest, biggest, greatest, most powerful civilization the world has ever known. The US embraces its warrior spirit and uses it to dominate and advance the world towards greatness. We need imperialism and interventionism to save humanity from descending into savagery. Without US imperialism and Western colonialism the world would be nuked by some Jihadis getting offended because of a Mohammed picture

>>17099248
>Why fake an accent as an American
It wasn't fake, he was literally raised in England as a child

>>17097316
I blame the youtube algorithm shilling this video everywhere for the fact that Buckley is suddenly memed constantly on /lit/.

>>17103558
the west invented nukes and western capitalists bloodthirsty desire to crush communism and impose capitalism on the world lead to MAD, cold war, and nuclear stockpiling

fuck the us
fuck colonialism
fuck imperialism
fuck neocons

>>17103568
It's to counter the Vidalposting.

>>17103558
prager u gang

>>17103573
>>17103586
butthurt commies
america is the last standing superpower
crushed communism
china had to go capitalist (deng xiaoping) and split from the ussr to even catch up
advanced liberal capitalism and democracy to create unprecedented wealth and progress in human history
liberated millions of people in the third world from repressive ideologies and backwards practices
brought wealth and culture, new ideas, new art, new fashion, womens liberation, technology
you should be thanking the us for sharing their immense wealth and powerful civilization with you, or european colonial powers.

>>17097316
Both were garbage.

>>17103573

>>17100691
>It produces mostly useless things
Define useless

>>17103558
>We need imperialism and interventionism to save humanity from descending into savagery
Yes.
>We need US imperialism
God no. The US is only winning because it has sold its (what little it had) soul to demons of Capital and Technology. In return they grant you strength but long term will result in the destruction of humanity. Have fun being liquidated by Capital one day cause some new technology makes that the most efficient course of action.

>>17103486
It was mostly to prevent the USSR from setting up a client state in Vietnam...

>>17103558
Arabs are too low-IQ to invent nukes to threaten anyone with. Jihadis aren't a threat if you simply don't let them migrate to your country.

>>17100969
>. Also, for multiculturalism to be completely unviable, it managed to produce the most powerdul empire in human history.
What empire are you referring to here?
If it's the Romans, they weren't "multicultural", they were assimilationist. Multiculturalism was a product of their success in conquering various peoples, not the cause of their success. If your religion contradicted the state's official view on things, you were in trouble.
The USA is also barely multicultural. From an outsiders view, the USA is very much a monoculture of English speaking people who generally subscribe to the same beliefs and look pretty uniform from coast to coast.

>>17103558
>The US embraces its warrior spirit
The USA literally couldn't even commit to a proper full scale war in Vietnam, they never invaded the North...

>>17103690
US is mostly a capitalist liberal democratic culture oriented around individualism and a sort of "Protestant work ethic" ethos inherited from the colonial founders. The US has managed to separate itself from Europe's collectivism and has a distinct emphasis on liberalism, individualism, and freedom even if there are multiple races. They mostly assimilate to it.

>>17099248
>>17100875
>americans live in such a small, closed world that they can't tolerate different accents

>>17103667
which has nothing to do with ideology and everything to do with maintaining an empire

>>17103756
Yes, similarly, the USSR wanted to establish a client state in Vietnam as it did in Cuba. I don't understand what you're outraged about, the USSR and US both acted as empires would geopolitically.

>>17104043
That was my only post, not outraged at all. The other post implied the official political line 'stopping communism' was the reasoning as if it were a moral duty to avoid ideological takeover when this is irrelevant as it was as you say two empires. Indeed, USSR was mostly on the backpedal from the beginning, hardly as zealous, so it wasn't even a security concern. It was purely resource control.

>>17103667
Lmao