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/lit/ - Literature


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17065251 No.17065251 [Reply] [Original]

Immanuel Kant demonstrated that all thought (mentality) is restricted to the appearances. He believed that there is a "phenomenal" world which comprises the whole of conscious experience (in all its forms) and a "noumenal" world which involves things as they really are outside of thought.

While I admire Kant (and I think his point is close to the truth), I think he gets this wrong. He holds that the noumenal world is so outside of thought that it is impossible that any of our words or ideas even refer to it. How then could our word 'reality' or the idea of reality in any way refer to the noumenal world? If he takes the noumenal world to be the way things really are, but we cannot refer to the noumenal world, then our idea of reality is empty and fails to refer to anything.

I think this is closer to the truth. Reality is, in a sense, perception, but not in the way that trendy new-agers like to talk about it. Reality, the world, lies *within* perception, but it is restricted to only those ideas that become fixed in thought as the result of a long, communal, objective engagement with experience.

This view frightens me, however. I am reminded of the Lovecraftian idea that there are horrors beyond even the limits of human imagination. If the view I lay out is correct, and the Lovecraftian idea is also true, then we should expect to meet with the cosmic horrors as the result of our engagement with experience. I suppose this is why many religious traditions warn us about the felicitous use of scientific reason (think the CERN projects). While I'm not anti-science by any means, we should all take care not to open the pandora's box of experience. Engage with experience, for it will bear Reality, but respect it, for it will easily consume you.

>> No.17065351

that's jacobi

>> No.17066222

>>17065251
>He holds that the noumenal world is so outside of thought that it is impossible that any of our words or ideas even refer to it. How then could our word 'reality' or the idea of reality in any way refer to the noumenal world? If he takes the noumenal world to be the way things really are, but we cannot refer to the noumenal world, then our idea of reality is empty and fails to refer to anything.
Have you read the Trascendental Deduction and the Refutation of Idealism? Also keeps in mind that existence is not a positive determination, as it is demonstrated in his refutations of ontological arguments. By saying that noumena exists, I'm not predicating anything specific on their concept. As such, the judgement can be justified even in his system, since it is analitically identical to the judgement "phenomena are not all that exist". While this judgement is logically valid, it still has to be proven: he does so in the two sections I've mentioned. Basically the syllogism would be something like
1. The intellect is not capable of intellectual intuition, and therefore cannot "kickstart" consciousness by spontaneously determining our receptivity
2. We have a conscious experience
3. Something other than my intellect and its products must exist so that I can have a conscious experience
With this argument I don't determine in the slightest any noumena (as in, there is no noumena X which has this or that property), and therefore I don't overstep the boundaries of trascendental idealism.

>> No.17066306
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17066306

>>17065251

>> No.17066414

>>17065251
>(think the CERN projects)
This is worse than anti-vaxxers.