/lit/ - Literature

>>17047903
>How does this work, psychologically? The idea of a common good has given way to a partition of citizens along the lines of a moral hierarchy – one that just happens to mirror their material fortunes (as in Calvinism). Instead of feeling bound up in a shared fate with one’s countrymen, one develops an alternate solidarity that is placeless. The relatability across national borders that the gentlefolk feel in one another’s company — the gracious ease and trust, the shared points of reference in high-prestige opinion — has something to do with their uniformly high standing in the moral hierarchy that divides citizen from citizen within their own nations. The decision-making class has discovered that it enjoys the mandate of heaven, and with this comes certain permissions; certain exemptions from democratic scruple.

>The permission structure is built around grievance politics. Very simply: if the nation is fundamentally racist, sexist and homophobic, I owe it nothing. More than that, conscience demands that I repudiate it. Hannah Arendt spelled out this logic of high-minded withdrawal from the claims of community in the essays she wrote in response to the protest movements of the 1960s. Conscience “trembles for the individual self and its integrity,” appealing over the head of the community to a higher morality. The latter is discerned in a highly subjective, personal way. The heroic pose struck by Thoreau in Civil Disobedience is the model for this kind of moralistic anti-politics of conscience, in which the good man may be quite opposed to the one called a good citizen.

>>17047912
>In The Revolt of the Elites, Christopher Lasch spelled out in greater detail the role that claims of racial and sexual oppression play in securing release from allegiance to the nation — not just for those who identify as its victims, but for those with the moral sensitivity to see victimisation where it may not be apparent, and who make this capacity a touchstone of their identity. It becomes a token of moral elevation by which we recognise one another, and distinguish ourselves from the broader run of citizens. Both Lasch and Arendt argue that black Americans serve a crucial function for the white bourgeoisie. As the emblem and proof of America’s illegitimacy, they anchor a politics of repudiation in which the idea of a common good has little purchase.

>This illegitimacy transcends any particular historical facts about slavery and segregation. Indeed it transcends America, as one can surmise by the ease with which American grievance politics has been exported throughout the Western world. In this we sometimes see the use of American historical references that have been weirdly transposed, as when a house once lived in by Rosa Parks was relocated from Detroit to Berlin, the financial seat of the European Union. (Under the empire of Christendom, the market for material relics from the Passion of Christ was similarly global; they left the holy land and ended up in various seats of earthly power.) Most recently, the transatlantic festival of George Floyd attests to the fact that it isn’t simply America that stands accused.

>>17047903
>the broader gentility
What did he mean by this?

>>17047921
>The social order is corrupt, then. The labour movement once had an alternative order to offer in its stead, drawing on the socialist tradition. It was one that included African-Americans – not as African-Americans but as workers. And this movement was fairly successful. The pressures that organised labour brought to bear on business and the state helped to secure America’s brief period of shared prosperity, lasting roughly from the end of WWII to the 1970s.

>What happened then? The new prominence of the term “repressed” in the 1960s is significant, and marks a shift into a new terrain of psychologised politics. The object of attack for the “new Left” was no longer laissez-faire capitalism but “society”, the Freudian superego more or less, with its insistence on standards of behaviour that are binding on all. Arendt and Lasch both identify this attack on shared standards as the decisive inflection point in our turn away from a politics of the common good. Society is taken to be inherently oppressive, and discredited in the name of liberation.

>One can find such an idea in a selective reading of Freud, for whom there is an inherent conflict between self and society. But for Freud, reconciling oneself to this conflict and entering into the world of shared meaning and exchange, indeed identifying with it, is how one becomes an adult. The world does not love you simply for being you, as your mommy does. One holds oneself accountable to prevailing norms, or else remains trapped in infantile narcissism.

>>17047927
>The Left’s posture of liberationism provided an interpretive frame in which the deadly riots and wider explosion of urban crime in the 1960s was to be understood as political rather than criminal. This interpretation played a key role in the wider inversion: it is “society” that is revealed to be criminal. The utility of urban rioting for the new Left lay in the fact that it was thought to carry an insight into the illegitimacy of even our most minimum standards of behaviour. The moral authority of the black person, as victim, gave the bourgeoisie permission to withdraw its allegiance from the social order, just as black people were gaining fuller admittance to it.

>Consider the images that had so impressed the nation in the 1950s and lead to the passage of civil rights legislation: marchers demanding equal treatment, and being willing to go to jail as a demonstration of this allegiance to the rule of law, impartially applied. The civil rights movement began as an attack on the injustice of double standards; it was a patriotic appeal to the common birthright of citizenship, as against the local sham democracy of the South. Notably, the civil rights activists of this time wore suits and ties, the costume of adult obligations and standards of comportment. But in a stunning reversal achieved by the new Left working in concert with the Black Power movement, Lasch points out, “the idea of a single standard was itself attacked as the crowning example of ‘institutional racism’.” Such standards were said to have no other purpose than keeping black people in their place. This shift was fundamental, for shared standards are what make for a democratic social order, as against the ancien régime of special privileges and exemptions.

>>17047935
>For the new Left, then, it was not capitalism but the democratic social order altogether that was the source of oppression — not just of black people, or of workers, but of us, the college bourgeoisie. The civil rights movement of black Americans became the template for subsequent claims by women, gays and transgender persons, each based on a further discovery of moral failing buried deep in the heart of America. Hence a further license, indeed mandate, granted to individual conscience, as against the claims of the nation.

>But the black experience retains a special role as the template that must be preserved. The black man is specially tuned by history to pick up the force field of oppression, which may be hard to discern in the more derivative cases that are built by analogy with his. Therefore, his condition serves a wider diagnostic and justificatory function. If it were to improve, denunciation of “society” would be awkward to maintain and, crucially, my own conscience would lose its self-certifying independence from the community. My wish to be free of the demands of society would look like mere selfishness.

>The white bourgeoisie became invested in a political drama in which their own moral standing depends on black people remaining permanently aggrieved. Unless their special status as ur-victim is maintained, African-Americans cannot serve as patrons for the wider project of liberation. If you question this victimisation, you are questioning the rottenness of America. And if you do that, you are threatening the social order, strangely enough. For it is now an order governed by the freelance moralists of the cosmopolitan consensus. Somehow these free agents, ostensibly guided by individual conscience, have coalesced into something resembling a tribe, one that is greatly angered by rejection of its moral expertise.

>>17047950
>The notion of expertise is important. There appears to be a circle of mutual support between political correctness, technocratic administration, and the bloated educational machinery. Because smartness (as indicated by educational credentials) confers title to rule in a technocratic regime, the ruling class adopts a distinctly cognitivist view: virtue does not consist of anything you do or don’t do, it consists of having the correct opinions. This is attractive, as one may then exempt oneself from the high-minded policies one inflicts upon everyone else. For example, the state schools are turned into laboratories of grievance-based social engineering, with generally disastrous effects, but you send your own children to expensive private schools. You can de-legitimise the police out of a professed concern for black people, and the explosion of murder will be confined to black parts of the city you never see, and journalists are not interested in. In this way, you can be magnanimous while avoiding the moral pollution and that comes from noticing reality.

>With this clerisy’s systemic lack of “skin in the game”, the idea of a common good becomes a weak abstraction. Maintaining one’s own purity of opinion, on the other hand, has real psychic consequence, as it is the basis for one’s feeling of belonging — not to the community one happens to reside in, but to the tribe of the elect.

>If the ideal of a de-moralised public sphere was a signature aspiration of liberal secularism, it seems we have entered a post-secular age. Populism happened because it became widely noticed that we have transitioned from a liberal society to something that more closely resembles a corrupt theocracy.

Thoughts?

>>17047925
Idk, maybe the people who aren’t “woke”?

>>17047925
kek

>>17047925
Doesn’t mean what you think it means

>>17047976
it is way too longwinded, he could really say his point in like a paragraph

Didn't read. Fuck off.

>>17047976
can you give a tldr? I only made it halfway through. My take away so far is that he's saying the global managerial cass use social justice causes as a way to solidify and legitimize their own authority often at the expense of their "people".

>>17047976
I actually read the whole thing. It is a bit long-winded, but in general it seems the point being made is that the ruling class benefits from having a social cause. The Left rallies to liberate this cause with their good intentions, but the cause will never come to fruition since they claim these problems are intrinsic to society. Furthermore, it is necessary that the marginalized, especially blacks, stay marginalized so that the social order of liberation be maintained. Let me know if I got something wrong or missed a point.

Even though I largely agree, my question is why? Is it to sow dissent and keep people from unifying? Does the elite honestly think they are right? Is it his comment about not having any skin in the game and seeing their folly at the working level? I am also curious as to where does this lead. Eventually this can turn into something beyond the elites control, what happens then?

great article. Thanks for posting. I’ve been noticing more and more that the movement is completely empty. It is more or less just a self pitying power game with no unity to the individuals who participate, both white and black. Dismissing facts and evidence as institutional constructs is also convenient because it means that they literally never have to stop bitching. It is especially revealed as a larp when you realize that institutional racism makes no rational sense. People in power want to make money, why the fuck would they throw money out the window to hire a worse employee just because he isn’t black? They treat everyone like a cog anyway when it comes down to it.

>>17048346
I'm inclined to think that the elites don't consciously do this stuff, but rather, this is some sort of strategic equilibrium that has been reached at this point in time. Those that do not follow these ways (in the age of liberal democracy and social media) end up losing power.

I wouldn't adopt any view that has global elites colluding and using game theory masterfully to entrench themselves. More like, this is what is natural for them to do at this time.

>>17048346
>Even though I largely agree, my question is why?
This arose because it morally alienates elites from any duty to society. Noblesse oblige becomes a sin. Very useful when you have work to do.

>>17048103
He’s basically saying it helps them justify being loyal to themselves/the corporation instead of the nation-state (Which they accuse of being inherently oppressive). This makes them feel that they don’t have to help the common good of the nation, only themselves.

It’s basically what Lasch already said in Revolt of the Elites.

>>17047903
Good article OP. Thank you for posting.

The problem with trying to end racism is that so long as people think a group of people within society is oppressed, that group will attribute all misfortune they experience to their race and the evils of society. The mindset of "They're all against me so why should I try?" is a dangerous one and breeds a lack of independence, motivation, and failure.

It's like that autonomous zone they set up in Portland because a family of blacks were going to get evicted for not paying a loan they'd taken against their house. Their struggle was seen as entirely because of their race rather than their choices or circumstances because they're black in America. Naturally even poor whites are able to pay off their loans using the checks the government sends them for being white.

So a bunch of wannabe revolutionaries blocked off their street and raised nearly $200,000 to pay off their loan. Exactly why they felt the need to continue to segregate that section of the city is a mystery to me, though.

OY VEY SHUT IT DOWN

LIAR LIAR ANTI-SEMITE!!!

>>17047903
I feel this article circles around the point without ever nailing it down. The real point is about how the powers that be have commoditized and branded oppression, making opposition to it a fashion statement and a way to seem hip rather than as an existential threat to the integrity of democracy.

An example of this can be seen in the commercial featuring rapper "flow milli" which seems to have been scrubbed from much of the internet. To sell earbuds called "beats" the young woman stands defiantly in front of a confederate statue and dances. The implication of course is that no matter how serious issues of black oppression are they are not so sacred that you can't make a buck off it.
(Link to a video of the commercial. Be warned the site it is hosted on seems somewhat pozzed: https://abancommercials.com/beats-dre/flo-milli-flexing-her-clapback-new-beats-flex-wireless-earphones-ad-commercial/123646/))

Similar "for-profit" wokism abounds. There is a hole class of moralistic police who profit off pathological viral digital economics promoting social division and outrage about various injustices. By commercializing injustice it is guaranteed that it will continue because it is a viable revenue stream. A somewhat related situation can be seen with the media's obsession with Trump which drove heavy traffic from clickbaity articles about how demonic he was.

Above all, however, the one inequality the establishment does not attempt to commercialize is class and economic inequality. Identity politics empowers the elites by ignoring the central and driving source of inequality, and around which the most impactful and meaningful change could be enacted. Instead, it pushes divisive identity politics to ensure that the working class is at each others throats based on racial or other identity divisions.

>>17049265
I've brought up this point with some of my more "woke" friends (I'm actually a leftist but that is meaningless these days) and get accused of being a Nazi
I feel like everyone is walking into a trap where the working poor and middle classes will fear themselves to death over the ghosts of the 20th century

>>17049312
You raise a good point. The mechanism of this scam perpetuates itself through name calling and semantic cheapening. Calling someone a nazi and using the fact that they disagree with their high minded liberal ideals is enough evidence by itself in their mind to reject your argument. Words like "racist, nazi, fascist" get stretched to the breaking point because this makes the world more simpler and easily dividable into us versus them.
Simply to be called a nazi is to have an onslaught of reproach leveled against you. These words are tactically deployed in order to maintain the moral hierarchy and profitability of woke values against competitors.

>>17049312
It's basically what destroyed Occupy Wallstreet

Yeah, remember that?

Basically the movement splintered and segregated as groups decided that the 99% couldn't rise up until it was determined which of the 99% deserved to rise more. Without a coherent message of "Fuck those rich assholes who control our lives" eventually the movement petered out and died. We've been lost in the roiling morass of identity politics ever since.

>>17048875
This indeed. The benefits they aggregate themselves must in the end be the deciding factor as to whether this tactic would seize or instead spread.
It would seem too perverse to assume probably hundreds of thousands are cooperating to give off the pretense to fight social injustice while at the same time insidiously maintaining it (there are certainly well meaning people who dont know what they are doing).
Could it perhaps be solved by saying:
the oppressed and disenfranchised themselves perpetuate their social status due to their own nature and therefore any of this placebo commercial&social justice help never actually can make any change; and so they only need dismember any institution that actually could help these people so that these people forever serve as poster boys for the elites campaign to show that they owe nothing to people who the elite (and their henchmen) claim are the sole cause for this horrible treatment; meaning the average normal american, the nation a sin a people?

>Just follow societal obligations.
The trouble with that statement is that there is no monolithic Society in America anymore. Half of society is made up of the people you're condemning and you're refusing to follow their guidelines. There is no way to obey Society or not obey Society anymore, because there is no united culture due to increasing ethnic and cultural diversity and the internet making most social interactions obsolete and allowing interaction with people outside of one's community.

>>17049331
It's a lot more comfortable to literally be a nazi, but you guys will never know that level of psychic peace, you have to find some way, direct or indirect, to hate white people and therefore yourself.

>>17049465
are you retarded?
the idea is that the economic elites have found a way to say they owe nothing to no one. You idiotic monkey it doesnt matter if this was 1900 or today: the middle and lower class shall not gain, be reimbursed, etc. because they do not deserve it since they are the sole villainous cause for “insert boogeyman”.

>>17049481
>you guys
Who are you pointing the finger at here buddy? I just wrote two posts of invective against liberal orthodoxy.

>>17049373

>>17049481
>literally be a nazi
>psychic peace
I think you're doing it wrong.

>>17049622
>"Yeah the banks have control over your whole lives, but that straight white male in the gutter with you literally wants to kill you just for being born."

It's obvious if you think about it why do people care so much about racism, sexism, homophobia, etc...
Many reasons of course but I think chief among them is that it simply lets them feel like they are a hero and iconoclast with no real effort or risk no "skin in the game" the same ideals that have been drilled into them since they entered the education system, the same lofty romantic images that has been fed to them by the media their entire lives, and perhaps most importantly now one of the only ways they can resolve the intense cognitive dissonance they naturally feel living in the corporate dominated neoliberal hegemony
I can consume to my hearts content all while feeling morally and intellectually superior? Who could say no
Perhaps this only truly liberates the elites in the sense it increases their power but it ultimately gives the illusion of liberation to anyone and everyone
The ultimate irony is that it was this very same line of reasoning that led to the process of modern day colonialism in the first place and all of these people don't seem to have the slightest bit of self awareness at all that they are literally repeating the process they've so zealously demonized their progenitors for
Colonialism was justified by the idea that more "developed" nations were essentially doing the lesser developed ones a favor by taking them over, that it was literally their moral duty to expand and in the process share their great prosperous civilization with everybody else
So... they could have the land, the resources, and the people all while feeling morally and intellectually superior? Yeah who could say no

I would really like an economics book that "follows the money" and proves this beyond plausible hypotheses.
>i mean this unironically, it would be very interesting.

It's pretty simple - elites fear living in a homegenous country because a populist movement could appear and overthrow them. So they prefer to keep everyone dividided. It's divide and conquer

>>17047903
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmKj6xj0ams

>>17047903
That was a good read, thanks

>>17049265
>They don't commercialise class
Inside your head maybe they don't but in the real world they absolutely do

>>17047976
Not literature

>>17047925
yikes. please delete this post

>>17047903
It's very well written, but liberalism didn't suddenly go off the rails in the 1960s. The 1960s were a logical progression for a philosophy predicated upon individualism and secularism and wealth accumulation. The author lionizes the civil rights movement, the labor movement, and so forth, but they were the stepping stones which brought us to this moment. "Ye shall know them by their fruits..."

>>17050214
>philosophy predicated upon individualism and secularism and wealth accumulation.
That's not true. After the 1960s, liberalism started to fall out of fashion to postmodern thinking. Once postmodernism was applied to social thinking, this new Left started to take off. This is not liberalism. They do not care about the individual, but rather the narrative of a marginalized group.

>>17050325
Not him but the New Left, and thus the contemporary status quo can very well be defined by the fact that they're the only ones capable of being unbound by postmodern thinking due to the fact that it is them who control the apparatus of power. "Postmodernism for thee, but not for me" is basically the motto of the modern day whig.

>>17050325
>>17050333
Good posts. I see the New Left as the logical consequence of Liberalism. They're distinct, but one gives rise to the other.

>>17047903
The next step is to realize that it was intentional. It started with liberal elites bringing in more ethnic minorities for votes, and conservative elites bringing them for cheapened labour + real estate inflation.

They've been attacking the ethnos, because without it there is no common interest, and new kinds of corruption become possible (playing groups gainst eachother as Mr. Crawford explains). What isn't mentioned here though is that there really is a true, objective conflict of interest between ethnically divergent populations. Right, now the primary conflict is between Whites and the non-whites who want to inherit their nations... At this point, the elites couldn't suspend racial politics even if they wanted to, because they have created a multi-racial citizenry; even if they all disappeared tomorrow, there would still be ethnic groups vying for hegemony.

>>17047961
Here he's referencing The Cathedral, which is a concept more people need to understand. There doesn't have to be a 'grand conspiracy', just a feedback loop between institutions.

Elites never gave a shit to begin with. This is pure cope. They come from an international aristocracy, more alike eachother than their 'nation', and this never changed even with their shallow national LARPing.

>>17050536
Stop it, Moldbug.

>>17050746
>t. historically illiterate to the max

>>17050787
uh no he's right so dilate

>>17050536
But what happens when the elites fuck up?

Where do the Jews fit into this?

>>17051557
Who cares?

>>17047903
Copy-pasting a political blog is not /lit/

>>17051661
Put a shotgun in your mouth and pull the trigger

>>17047903
Not doing your homework for you faggot

threads like this suck ass. OP copies and pastes an artilce with no summary, or even his own thoughts...expects us to do the work for him. I suspect this is for his homework or something

>>17052019
I doubt any school would give homework on a topic like this. It's too nazi

>>17051557
They're massively overrepresented among the power elite; they were the globalists before globalism was a thing. Host nation subversion is also their historical modus operandi.

>>17051425
Not sure I'm taking your point here... Trump is an elite. He's the better option because he's slowed down mass-immigration and increased populist sentiment, but he's still happy to play the racial pandering game (just to a lesser extent). These people don't truly care about the long-term, if a country becomes too unstable they will take their liquid assets and leave.

The only honestly caring, non-establishment candidate I've seen in the U.S. is Ron Paul, and even he doesn't call out anti-whiteness.

But if you seriously think any leader would be able to turn a multi-racial population into coombaya land, you're kidding yourself. All they can do is become more totalitarian to keep a lid on things.

>>17047903
I've had some thoughts along these lines on how an ancienne regime aristocracy would be preferable to the current state of affairs. There's still an aristocracy, but they have no sense of noblesse obligé. A heriditary aristocracy is a crapshoot where any one of them could be evil or incompetent, but to be a member of any sort of global financial elite in the present day seems to demand complete amorality as a basic requirement.

>>17052873
Interestingly, the global financial elites and local aristocracies seem to vary significantly. It looks like international big money types are more into "wokeness", poptimism, new age spirituality, contemporary architecture, etc. while the families who are locally but not internationally powerful retain classical elitism with classical music, classic literature, poetry, traditional architecture, etc.

>>17053034
Are there any local aristocracies left?

>>17053043
There are some in rural New England, I presume they exist in other rural areas. But the "Boston Brahmin" types that used to dominate New England cities have almost entirely become Davos men.

>>17047903
>>17047912
>>17047921
>>17047927
>>17047935
>>17047950
>>17047961
Any other articles/books like these?
I already read The Age of Entitlement this year.

>>17049622
This pic pretty much sums it up. The elites were disturbed by occupy wall street and it hit them at their weak-point, the one social injustice the system cannot co-opt without implicating itself. It never ceases to amaze me how curiously silent these corporations are when it comes to injustices like mass foreclosure, eviction, homelessness, drug abuse, debt, lack of affordable healthcare, and other side-effects of its process. These are inarguably more glaring problems that affect many more people than any niche minority rights or identity politics grievance.

>>17053079
Revolt of the Elites by Christopher Lasch

>>17053110
>It never ceases to amaze me how curiously silent these corporations are when it comes to injustices like mass foreclosure, eviction, homelessness, drug abuse, debt, lack of affordable healthcare, and other side-effects of its process. These are inarguably more glaring problems that affect many more people than any niche minority rights or identity politics grievance.
Just a (((coincidence))), go- I mean fellow American citizen.

>>17047903
>philosopher and mechanic

>>17053110
They do cover it sometimes. Tim Wise, grifter in chief, said something along the lines of
>The insecurity of the gig economy, unfair foreclosures, low healthcare access, declining wages, etc. are what BIPOC had to deal with since the beginning. White people just can't take it when it catches up to them.
/pol/, of course, got mad because he was a Jew and not because he was defending it in general.

>>17053137
(Wise also grovelled and apologized when a black communist called him an idiot)

Jannies why the FUCK are unambiguous politics threads not getting pruned from the literature board

>>17053155
Many books and articles talk about politics.
Go back to /sffg/, kiddo.

>>17053155
These politics are having a major impact on literature, poetry, and scholarship. Go look for ANY publisher that isn't explicitly right wing and they will almost certainly be engaging in this essentialism.

>>17053110
>These are inarguably more glaring problems that affect many more people than any niche minority rights or identity politics grievance.

It's easier to commodify and iconize idpol, i.e. you can market to people easier by seeing themselves -- which completely plays into idpol's seeming narcissism. It's harder to market healthcare, foreclosure, etc. which require far more systematic change than printing BLM on a sweater or churning out a bumper-sticker.

Idpol, as it always has been, is just a fashion statement.

>>17048875
I think this is a bit naive. Many elites are very smart and certainly understand this as well as we do(and often much better due to access to information we don't have).

>>17053186

Just shut the fuck up. There are many books that discuss pornography, that doesn't make posting porn /lit/-related. You have /pol/ and /b/ and /r9k/ and /his/ to make these threads.

>>17053190
It's true that idpol stuff is mostly just a fashion statement and commoditized virtue signaling. But I'd argue that beyond the mere practical difficulty of making problems like affordable healthcare seem trendy and hip, major corporations ignore it because drawing attention a problem that could only be solved by prioritizing workers over shareholder profits would put them in a conflict of interest bind.
Cosmetic changes, like hiring more women or minorities in positions of authority, do not threaten the integrity or alter the coordinates of the structural framework which produces and sustains these socioeconomic iniquities.

>>17053205
Shut the fuck up you make me wanna stick my tongue right in your fucking ass

>>17047903
>offtopic post

>>17048346
>Somehow these free agents, ostensibly guided by individual conscience, have coalesced into something resembling a tribe, one that is greatly angered by rejection of its moral expertise.
the elites are an in-group (bubble), they look for problems with society and find them in social justice issues, because these they can fix without breaking the more or less corrupt political and economic system that maintains them as elites.

it's a win win: it makes them feel better/morally righteous because they are genuinely (as individuals) acting in good faith, it helps the System maintain the status quo because it distracts these issues distract the masses, and on top of that it helps them climb, because of the favorable popular opinion they gain (which translates to money and power)

>>17047976
My thoughts are that you’re a fag

>>17053303
Nobody cares, play sociologist somewhere else

>>17053346
refute me faggot

>>17048776
Stfu samefag

>>17049312
>over the ghosts of the 20th century
Well i hope you don’t say those words out loud lmao

>>17047903
I'm so god damned tired of sjw shit being shoved down my throat constantly. No wonder Mao killed all the "intellectuals".

>>17048346
>Even though I largely agree, my question is why? Is it to sow dissent and keep people from unifying?
Obviously.
>Does the elite honestly think they are right?
That has nothing to do with it.

People fucking hate the elite. The elite is scared of the rest of society, and they don't want to get strung up and hanged, so their goal is to keep being in power by keeping the plebs from unifying. It's not inherently malicious, it's just survival.

Also, the elites of the west are far more numerous in number than just the top 1%. It's more like the top 15-20%.

>>17049312
They call you a nazi and you call them your "friends?" Have some dignity, anon.

>>17047927
good until he started talking about "the new left" and then it's just garden variety capitalist apologetics for the remainder

>>17053517
the ruling class are the only class with genuine consciousness, everybody else lives in a fantasy world. the elite by definition can't be deluded even by themselves

>>17053124
>>17053110
sjw was created to destroy OWS. the elites got nervous that we were coming after them so they threw a distraction out, which at the same time served to divide us against each other to the point of fanatical hatred and bloodshed. everyone who participates in SJW is responsible for killing OWS and should face the wall. They're useful idiots and have wrought nothing but destruction, all the while posturing as some kind of hero to the people. Words can never sufficiently convey my contempt for sjw.

>>17053601
the criminal underclass have consciousness too

>>17053784
>threw a distraction out
Zoomers have no conception of how underwhelming OWS was and the fact that it was like 2 hears before the 2013 riots

>>17053918
It was a bit aimless at the time. No real demands or leverage. But still, I'd rather something like OWS be the focus of counterculture than what we have now.

>>17053784
Sjws are the definition of useful idiots, McRevolutionaries that sap out any real force that would be in a mass movement and destroying any chance for unified action by exacerbating divisions associated with vain and narrowly specific identity categories. They straightjacket people into precise identity designations which alone determines the value of what you say and your role in society. Every utterance must be prefaced by "As a cis het xyz...blah blah" which predicates whatever you say and predetermines its validity.Everyone has to stay in their lane, other arbitrarily constructed identity formations exist in fixed agreements or conflicts with others (POCs for example are supposed to have everything in common; straight white males are the designated oppressors to the other groups) . It's truly a suffocating and lobotomizing ideology that functions only to make organized mass movements impossible.

>>17047903
What a waste of fucking time, pure pseud. You must not discuss class/income/wealth because that causes shit and is expensive, therefore anything else is used; gender, identity, race etc.

>>17053124
>>17053110
I remember seeing several OWS protests the first time I went to NYC in 2011. What happened to those people? Why did they lose their voice and presence? Did they just become Bernie supporters? Speaking of Bernie, after he lost the 2016 nomination then blatantly shilled Hillary and the DNC, it seemed obvious that he was no enemy of the corporate oligarchy, just another sellout.

>>17053190
It isn't just a "fashion statement".

Genetically divergent populations have genuinely competing interests. It is only Whites who have been convinced to surrender their racial consciousness en masse. Even if all of those economic problems were resolved tomorrow, non-whites would still be looking to inherit the West. They would still be calling for mass immigration (regardless of the damage to low-skill wages), they would still be saying "White man bad" and they would still be celebrating the shrinking White demographic.

Once there is nothing left to take from Whites who refuse to behave ethnocentrically, it will be a hispanic majority vs. blacks & south-asians (to use the U.S. example).

>>17048346
>Even though I largely agree, my question is why? Is it to sow dissent and keep people from unifying?
It's a religious belief, don't think too hard about it. There's been an anti-white/anti-American strain in Northern Protestantism for a long time, Eric Kaufman has a recent article summarizing it. The US is going through a Protestant revival right now and all the debate over "identity politics" is an intra-Protestant debate over how to deal with what can best be identified as "generalized black people". BLM is a liberal Great Awakening. QAnon is a conservative Great Awakening.

>>17050214
>Individualism
The entire premise of the Civil Rights Regime is restricting liberty to protect blacks and later generalized blacks/victims like transexuals. It's rooted in a sacralization of victimhood in reaction to WW2 being turned into a new Founding Myth for the US along with the Civil Rights Movement.

>>17054230
I was at Zucotti park in 2011 interviewing people for a journalism class. That November the NYPD clamped down on it and broke up the encampment and dispersed the protestors. The following winter disrupted the momentum because it was too cold to occupy a public space. Similar police actions occurred in other cities. It never recovered after the police broke it up and that winter.

Bernie Sanders came along and indeed captured a whiff of that energy, but he adopted a softer, more conciliatory, less radical tone, assuming wrongly that the Democratic party would be a sufficient vehicle for major change. Sanders acted as sort of herding dog that reigned in the radicalism of the movement and brought people with those sentiments into the Democratic fold. ]

Another factor is that OWS was all bark and no bite. There was no attempt to organize work stoppages necessary to bring the system to its knees.

>>17053152
>>17053137
The thing I always have to mention when Wise is brought up is that he is pro-BDS/Palestine. He’s a self-hating Jew.

>>17053918
True, seemed half-serious at best, and no one there had anything cogent to say about how the system should be rearranged. Ron Paul gave them a much better chance at really changing shit (two chances, actually), but I suspect many of them wouldn't consider going Republican for any reason.

>>17054246
What do you think of the theory of Hispanic’s identiting with “white” more and more?

>>17054257
>anti-white/anti-American strain in Northern Protestantism for a long time
Where does this come from?

>>17054338
Does Josh Hawley have a chance?

>>17054045
SJWs? Almost everyone is like this.
They have no concept of concreteness in reality.
Everything is a reaction to social credentials which are almost entirely determined by income trickling down from the central bank, the human element has been downgraded severely.

The vast majority of human bodies have no soul of their own, they inherit their will from the controllers of the central bank.
They are fake people doing fake jobs for fake money. It all stems from that fake end: the fake money, the insane abstract taken as a concrete, something that has no objective value that is constantly manipulated from the top of 'society'. All of their activity is directed at obtaining it, it's the portal to all they do, and by pursuing it they become absolutely corrupt.
Almost nothing they produce does anything to further their own purposes, which they are totally unconscious of outside of their base needs such as eating food and reproducing, which they are only dimly aware of.

The only truly real thing they do is create new humans, but then they promptly sacrifice them to the jew on the altar of "society", going to any length to sabotage their instincts and force them to conform to the insane ideal handed down through the economic system and media/education system.

The immediate enemy is not the elite, it is the subhuman imposters usurping humanity all around you.
If you exterminated the elite the dysgenics would still be here causing all the same problems and acting as a staircase for a new evil elite to ascend.

>>17047976
I don't go easy for the anti-woke op-ed, but this was really well written and makes a lot of sense to me. Thanks so much for sharing.

>>17051661
Yet this is a really good thread and there is great academic discussion going on. Go back to your "name me a book that features toothpaste in it" threads.

>>17054367

>>17052252
Trump is elite in that he lives in the elite strata of society, but he is not "elite". Look at how much the elite (Clinton's, bushes, old money) oppose him. Look at his manner of communication compared to theirs. Look at his home which is full of tacky displays of wealth vs theirs. We should probably replace the word "elite" in this case with "old money WASP".

>>17054344
I think it's not really sincere, because miscegenation isn't happening at a high enough frequency to 'transform' a significant part of their population (and if it was, it would be Whites becoming more Hispanic, due to dominant Mestizo genes). Castizos are basically White though.

I'm not sure what advantage they'd get from identifying that way, with all the anti-white sentiment around. Maybe it's a point of pride... They'd like to think of themselves as more European than Mestizo? What do you think?

>>17053224
I don't necessarily disagree with you but I want to critique your use of "prioritizing workers over shareholder profits". Saying such things is playing into their identity politics game. And though these problems being solved does necessitate decreased profit, they would be easily solved through increasing competition. (Healthcare is textbook third degree price discrimination. Allow for international trade in pharmaceuticals) not "prioritizing workers" whatever that means.

>>17054361
I think he'd get a lot of right-wing support for his principled stances, but I don't believe the current establishment would allow him to succeed. There would have to be a major power structure upheaval, and at that point things become just too unpredictable.

>>17054445
>dominant Mestizo genes
you know this is a meme right. There are recessive genes associated with whites, famously blue eyes, but white genes are not somehow generally recessive, and Mestizos are simply a mixture of native american and european.

>>17054367
I mostly agree with your assessment, but I don't see how we can blame sheep for being sheep—it's their nature. I can only place blame at the feet of the shepherds, who know better. It's true though... Even if the elites all died tonight, the rot would still be there.

>>17054597
>don't cull the all-consuming horde when it's fully within your power, that would be mean, they can't help it!
>just let them feast until all is waste that's the right thing to do

>>17048346
I believe it is so that the elite can continue feeling like the elite, they have dissolved the boundaries of race, class, and even education (in some cases) that previously distinguished them as the elite.
What do they have left? Smug moral opinions.
Lots of people say that this is to distract from class issues, but I see it more as a free way to distinguish themselves (because to actually give their money away to help solve any issues of poverty would be beyond the pale). Other people jump on because it's effective and free, I don't see any grand conspiracy here.

>>17054430
Most of his kids are married to jews, and he was involved with all kinds of shady elite-circle shit before entering politics. Yeah he's disruptive to the globalists and that's good, and maybe in his own head he's sincere about MAGA, but he's not playing a fundamentally different game.

>>17054445
>I'm not sure what advantage they'd get from identifying that way, with all the anti-white sentiment around.

But as you see here>>17051425
it seems that sentiment isn’t really having an effect. Sure, Trump wasn’t a white nationalist like people believed but he never embraced wokeness.

I think we will see more Latinos becoming white. Hell, it could be like the Italians and Irish who weren’t considered white until the 20th Century.

In fact, I’ve seen some theorize the “awokening” that’s happening (Which has been mostly centered around black people) is caused by increasing Latino immigration, which makes blacks even more of a minority.

>>17054663
Don’t forget the ties to Epstein that QAnon people like to brush under the rug.

>>17054663
how is he "disruptive"?
you're a fucking retard

he does absolutely nothing but make retards like you tick by being edgy
because you're so braindead and believe any show that's put on for you the "disruptiveness" you perceive is actually one of the most important measures to keep the present system intact since witnessing it is cathartic for you and relieves you of your will to power

i'm serious, you are beyond fucking stupid

>>17054734
If he weren't disruptive the political establishment, including a lot of Republicans, wouldn't be foaming at the mouth about him all the time.

>>17054742
OR MAYBE it's a fucking act and none of it matters, maybe politics has been totally circumvented by finance and the central bank is the real government

but nooooo then you would be wrong about everything you think and everything you've ever done would have been a complete waste of time

exactly, you are a retard nigger animal fit for nothing but slaughter

>>17054354
I don't know. Some people blame the long nose tribe but I think Northern Protestants were eager to hear what they were saying.

>>17054814
>>17054354
If I recall correctly, he states that these types viewed themselves as "protectors of minorities" due to a religious framework derived from a veneration of religious toleration and freedom of conscience. If you see yourself as the protector of victims against the majority, logically, the majority becomes the enemy who needs to be destroyed to protect the global victim. This seems to have been further radicalized in the US by sacralization of the black struggle and the reaction to fascism post-WW2. People who complain about "secular progressivism" in the US are deeply misguided, we've been living under a reactionary theocracy perpetually living in 1933 or so for 80 years now. All we can do is react to fascism.

>>17054791
I like how everyone in this thread was engaged in a high level discussion and then you come along like a bull in a china shop. Learn to express your beliefs in a more orderly fashion kid.

>>17054791
Well I actually agree with you that the central banks are the biggest frauds out of anyone, but Trump still clearly represents a threat to some of the elite factions. I personally don't really understand why, since he is not really different to the others, but there must be a reason.

>>17054838
Now why does that happen in Protestantism instead of Catholicism? Lots of Catholicism is about helping the vulnerable.

>>17054872
He encourages (unwittingly) actual politicians who want to fight status quo like Josh Hawley.

He’s an instigator. That’s it.

>>17054497
Yes, I admit it is a bit of a meme. I do believe that Whites have more recessive alleles in our cluster than other races, but I don't have hard evidence for that. It's from my observations of mixed people's overall traits (not just pigmentation and hair) and personalities.

In any event, a large scale mixing of Hispanics and Whites would result in a people that aren't quite European in my book, and I don't see why my people shouldn't have the ethnocentric pregrogative that all others enjoy.

But miscegenation isn't really the issue. Legal mass-immigration is the primary driver of demographic change.

>>17054875
I don't know, I think subsets of the English and NW Euro populations more generally have this tendency. It's not even "all Protestants" either, since right-leaning Evangelical Christians are a big voting bloc. However they're practically a different race since they're spiritually descended from Scots-Irish borderers as opposed to cucky Anglos or Germanoids.

The guy should've read Patrick Deneen's book Why Liberalism Failed before writing that article.

Deneen literally describes how liberal democracy's ideological commitment to both liberty and equality will produce a bunch of culturally schizophrenic outcomes such as trust fund babby 19 year old kids screaming that they are oppressed while being enrolled at the most elite college in the history of humanity, namely Harvard or Yale.

Liberal democracy actually produces elites that don't believe they are elite, or they engage in self-deception about their status because the ideology itself demands a constant acknowledgement of equality.

Incidentally, this insistence on never-ending equality becomes essentially performative and aesthetic and not actually of any consequence, and is simply used as the cover for the actual extreme inequality that does in fact exist, namely class-based economic inequality.

>>17054652
I didn't say it's a problem that shouldn't be dealt with, I said that the notion of applying -blame- to sheep is a dubious one. And even in the greatest ethnos we could hope for, most people would still be sheep. You might also consider that a society full of people with keen self-awareness might have its own problems functioning.

>>17048346
I remember reading that in Haiti, poor whites and poor blacks were starting to get together and become politically aligned, so the ruling class instituted jim crow style race laws to sow dissent between them and dissipate their chances of changing things

>>17054931
>liberty and equality
Liberty was objectively cancelled in the US in 1965. "Liberty" is widely seen (correctly) as a dogwhistle for racism because you can't actually combine freedom of association with protecting blacks in an integrated US.

>>17054947
Freedom of association already exists moron, you just got to stop being poor.

>>17054957
I'm already wealthy, and even the wealthiest companies have to abide by Civil Rights laws in hiring and prove that they aren't being discriminatory, use AA heavily, etc.

>>17054479
>"prioritizing workers" whatever that means.
The surplus value that goes to shareholders could instead go to workers benefits. Other countries have benefits the average American worker could only dream of. Or how about higher wages which have stagnated in comparison to exploding upper management salaries? Modern corporate business models are geared ruthlessly to optimize for shareholder value, this isn't some conspiracy I concocted.

> would be easily solved through increasing competition
I disagree entirely that healthcare can be optimized at all through market mechanisms. Privatization of healthcare leads to over-complication and parasitic middlemen such as insurance companies. Medicine prices skyrocket because pharmaceutical companies can get away with it. There is no good reason why medications should be far more expensive in the US other than capitalist exploitation. The shoddy record of the American healthcare system demonstrates that it is not something that is optimized by being run like a business.
Some years ago Goldman Sachs published a report where they basically showed their hand and said the same thing. Healthcare is not amenable to marketization.

>>17054973
>moving the goalposts

lol, what's next, "liberty" only means "I don't even want to see a black face in the newspaper" ?

>>17047903
The more I read the more I realize its gonna come down to someone Snowden or Assange-style publishing the full names, all aliases, and all addresses, with pictures of the members of this "ruling elite."
I have no idea where or who they are but they clearly need to be dealt with as a sort of final hurdle before we can have class politics and global socialism. It would unify racialist radicals as they are likely mostly jewish and chinese, with some african opportunists and british/american anglo benefitors of the City of London money hiding scheme.
Like that retarded bill burr bit, its gonna come down to a bunch of guys climbing over walls with guns knowing that in seven or eight minutes their whole lives are going to be destroyed for some improbable yet assuredly better future world.

>>17055005
I'm not even a proponent of "Liberty", I'm only trying to make the point that people, especially Catholic authors like Deneen who seem to have tunnel vision on this issue, are misguided to attribute the US Left's bizarre culture wars to a desire for Liberty, when it is, in fact, about a desire to protect victims, and idiocy we see today is a direct outgrowth of Civil Rights law taken seriously.

>>17054983
You're completely wrong and you're not thinking about the issue economically. You clearly don't understand the issue at hand. In the US, it is illegal for me to cross the border into mexico or Canada and buy cheap drugs and then come back and sell them. Arbitrage is illegal. Through public policy, the US has allowed pharmaceutical companies to enact price discrimination laws. Price discrimination can be eliminated if arbitrage were allowed or if companies were not allowed to sell their goods for cheaper in other markets. Look up third degree price discrimination before you claim to disagree with me and then go on to prove my point.
>there is no good reason
The reason is what I outlined. This issue is also over your head as this practice allows medicine to be. Heaped in other countries like Africa, where they would have before price discrimination been unserved.

>>17055017
There's no such thing as "class politics and global socialism" without the development of a new kind of economic system.

The only competition capitalism had the last 100 years was a more extreme and authoritarian version of itself, so what makes you believe that people who call themselves socialists even have an inkling of an idea of where to go next?

>>17054983
>the surplus value that goes to shareholders could go to workers benefits.

>implying the companies would exist without shareholders
>implying shareholders get dividends
You realize it's been a trend for companies to not pay dividends lately?

Interesting how those who are so apt to say how things SHOULD be put in little effort to know how things ARE.

>>17054680
Exactly.

>>17054734
He has caused a surge in populist sentiment around the world, even if he's done little of worth himself (he did at least cut legal immigration by half). What is 'edgy' about him, exactly? Did my post make me sound like I believe the Trump-hype?

You're a bit unhinged, my friend. Not a good look.

>>17055036
>are misguided to attribute the US Left's bizarre culture wars to a desire for Liberty

Well they are a desire for both liberty and equality, the left just looks inward and the right looks outward.

Right-wing liberals tend to want to conquer nature outside of themselves, and left-wing liberals tend to want to conquer the actual body and nature of human beings.

This is why right-wing liberals love skyscrapers and environmental destruction for profit, while left-wing liberals love transpeople, abortion and unconventional relationship constellations like polyamory.

Deneen literally explains all of this, read the actual book before criticizing it so badly.

>>17054844
Indeed, one might even suspect intentional subversion.

>Berlin, the financial seat of the European Union

The fuck is he on about. Berlin isn't the financial centre of anything. Try Frankfurt where ECB is located.

>>17054665
>I think we will see more Latinos becoming white.
Maybe at the fringes, but I think what we're really going to see is the U.S. becoming a progressively more Hispanic nation (they can call themselves whatever they want, but they won't be Europeans). Italians and Irish fall within the European genetic cluster; they've always been European, but Europeans are already diverse (we don't need more diversity).

>>17048346
>my question is why? Is it to sow dissent and keep people from unifying?

oppression is a social currency that increases status. the language of the victim is powerful amongst those who venerate victims.

>>17055259
I remember hearing the same thoughts from an interview with the president of Uruguay a while back:
https://youtu.be/hteGnL-8SeU?t=1368
"The US will become a bilingual nation very quickly. The wombs of Latin American women will conquer it little by little."

>>17055325
Uruguay is literally a much whiter country than the US lol

>>17047903
> senior fellow at the Institute for Advanced Studies in Culture at the university of Virginia
> philosopher and mechanic
Yeah, I’m not reading.

>>17049622

>>17054875
>Now why does that happen in Protestantism instead of Catholicism? Lots of Catholicism is about helping the vulnerable.
You've got to understand the burden of Syro-Phoenician capitalism in Protestantism...

>>17053155
This thread has more engaging discussions than any other threads here. The long articles keep away most race baiting assholes

>>17055354
>class war race war
what war? what the fuck are you talking about you melodramatic schizophrenic nigger?

there has been nothing like a sign of war except for a couple of mass shootings that didn't seem to have to do with either

>>17054844
>>17055093
if you narrate about how "good" you're doing you're lying

actually you aren't talking about anything, you're a fake going through motions you don't understand and there are tons of gaping holes in your bullshit that you refuse to answer for

these subhuman bots very often try to cope with "there's a conspiracy to disrupt my retarded brain-diarrhea, that's how smart and cool I am!!!"

honestly what the fuck is the difference between these subhumans and a bot? there is no distinguishing them. there is no meaningful difference at all. just because some are loaded onto flesh hardware doesn't make the slightest difference.

>>17054734
Fucking the TPP and publicly questioning the effects of globalization and raising any audible opposition to the free movement of reserve armies of labor are disruptive. Weakly so, but they are.

>>17055325
If there’s intermarriage, and most interracial couples in America are white/Hispanic couples. I think their offspring will most likely speak English as a first language.

>>17047903
The author is an insufferable cunt. I read this book of his a buddy sent me. A colossal jewel of staggering ignorance.

https://www.amazon.com/Shop-Class-Soulcraft-Inquiry-Value/dp/0143117467/ref=sr_1_1?crid=34WR0822KHAQ9&dchild=1&keywords=shop+class+as+soulcraft+by+matthew+crawford&qid=1608255340&sprefix=SHop+class+as+soul%2Caps%2C529&sr=8-1

>>17055766
Chicanos (1st gen Americans from Mexican parents) already do that, without knowing Spanish. One of the biggest memes on /int/ is Mexicans shitting on them for that reason.

>>17055649
>Im a fucking retard
the post. big surprise it is always the mentally retarded motherfuckers calling people schizo. who could have seen that coming

>>17054941
That's literally the cause of racial divisions anywhere where the rich take an active part. The Southern tenant farmer was having his wages and crop prices depressed by competition with slaves massively dropping prices, but the gentry needed an army to fight the civil war so they convinced those poor idiots that they were better than blacks even though the rich were stepping on both, one with just a slightly heavier shoe.

>>17056102
>the gentry needed an army to fight the civil war so they convinced those poor idiots that they were better than blacks
when did they do that

>>17055796
There's a guy on /int/ who's trying to convince people most latina women hate white guys. Even though that type of couple is the most common type of interracial marriage and there's hundreds of Tiktoks of latinas lusting after white men.

>>17047976

Very good

>>17048776
>thinking institutional racism is limited to the workplace

Topkek you retard no go back to kindergarden

>>17057710
We aren't meant to live together. We became different over thousands of years apart, and now you want us to pretend we're the same (except for when we're the bad guy) and risk destroying a significant and beautiful part of human diversity. You're sick.

If you don't like White privilege, don't live in a White country.

>>17054367
Books for this feel?

>>17055793
Hey Matthew, could you tone down your shilling please.

>>17055152
this is one of the stupidest things i've ever read, you don't understand Moscow, Washingston, the white house, Beijing the kremlin etc are used as metaphors?

>>17049953
Even "homogenous" societies are like this. Not to mention you can always find something to divide people with

>>17047903
Its not bad but its a surface level analysis ultimately. The development of the modern elite goes back for 300 years.

>>17058164
Berlin does not make sense in that context either. This is the first time I have heard Berlin referred to as the financial seat. This smells like some Brexiteer hogwash.

>>17048346
>Even though I largely agree, my question is why?
Put on your thinking cap.

>Is it to sow dissent and keep people from unifying?
To an extent. However, this "unity" they seek to prevent is essentially incidental - it is not people coming together that they fear, it is people moving in the same direction against them. It doesn't matter if you're a communist or a black nationalist or a national socialist or even considerably more mild-mannered; so long as "destroying the current social order" is on your to-do list (no matter the degree of disruption you wish to cause or what you plan to do after that) you are a threat because at this point the elites ARE society. More on that later.

>Does the elite honestly think they are right?
They're doing what they are to maintain their status, which has been obtained and is maintained through a shared monopoly on the structure of society and the minds of its constituents. It's like non-violent fourth generation warfare.

>Eventually this can turn into something beyond the elites control, what happens then?
It's self-perpetuating because the meat of it is immaterial and what isn't is distributed and/or can be relocated. There isn't a ring that can be cast into a fire or some ruler that can be beheaded. If you somehow managed to smash amazon HQ like you were storming the bastille, what would happen? Bezos wouldn't be on horseback rallying the troops for a last stand, he would be in fucking Switzerland or Monaco or another traditional redoubt of the wealthy and unpopular and Amazon would buckle a bit but ultimately fuck all would happen because that wasn't the issue at hand. Bezos himself (I'm just using him and Amazon as an example, not singling him out) being rounded up and stoned to death like Ghadaffi wouldn't do much either because some other immoral and filthy rich cunt would just fill his shoes and keep on keeping in after placating the critics through token reforms that will rescinded shortly anyway. And when Amazon itself finally has their thunder stolen by someone inventing a better mousetrap and fades or gets swallowed up by someone else or broken up by anti-trust legislation or something, it will also be meaningless because what Amazon is and does and the power it represents is too valuable for a conqueror to discard. The existence of a trans-national and invasive information economy represents a paradigm shift in human history that is being extremely underestimated by most people.

tl;dr Uncle Ted was right

>>17058193
To some extent, but compromising the ethnos means that there is no longer a true united people's interest to appeal to even if they did get their shit together. The state excuses itself from its proper telos—to serve the interests of the people who founded it—and becomes the dystopian control engine for a contemptible global elite. Why make things so much worse?

>>17047976
Definitely bloated and too long like others have said but he absolutely nails the problem with the modern left: they aren’t an alternative to the system anymore. Their fundamental issues are that the societies they inhabit aren’t fulfilling the rights they promise. The New Left abandoned working class politics and socialism in favor of identity-based egoism and social liberalism. As he says it’s a permanent infantile narcissism

>>17053124
I mean it’s pretty much undeniable that progressivism is a psyop orchestrated by the elites, happily accepted by the world’s youth because they lack purpose and identity. We literally watched them shill this stuff beginning in 2012 with Trayvon Martin and how it was so quickly spread by social media that it led to Trump and now the 2020 BLM explosion. Progressivism is simply the future of liberalism and any leftist who supports it is just playing into the hands of capital

If only you knew how bad things really are

>>17058493
tldr schizo post

>>17058498
niggerfaggot

>>17058498
not schizo at all, pretty much just reaffirms that identity politics is all apart of the neoliberal project and is all complete bullshit to commodity people into international capital

>>17047976
Nice, I would personally like to read how the described class is a continuation and transformation of what Marx called the petite bourgeoisie

>>17053155
thank god trannies are listening to fags like you, another good thread got deleted again even though it centered around a book

>>17051425
>Supermajority Hispanic areas in New England
>Supermajority Hispanic areas
>In New England
Explain yourselves Americans

>>17059289
New York commuter areas

>>17058193
>Even "homogenous" societies are like this
I don't know about that. From the late 19th century to near the middle of the 20th century, before the complete onset of the control state, the people in power were really fucking afraid of mass movements, left and right. Read Revolt of the Masses for some top tier pearl clutching. So much so that they changed how they use mass media and acquainted themselves with the usefulness of domestic, scientific psychological warfare.
I think deracinating people and nations is mostly useful insurance against some shit that the power center can't handle.

bump for more based effort posts

>>17059289
We've been importing a serf class for decades

>>17054230
>What happened to those people?
I recall reading a lot time ago that OWS was initially successful, at least in publicizing the criminality of the banking sector. Then SJWs got injected into it, introduced ideas like 'progressive stacking', unrelated nonsense about LGBT etc, and ended up shunning the white males, who had given the movement whatever structure it possessed, even if flimsy. After they left, OWS turned into a full-fledged SJW sideshow, and the public got turned off, so it lost its steam and died out. This is just one narrative about how OWS collapsed, I don't know how much truth there is to it. If those are the people you're referring to, I unironically think some of them might have become Trump supporters. Others probably just got disillusioned and retired from such activism.

If this how it happened, then the SJWs were basically used like the Pinkerton's to infiltrate, sow discord, and destroy the movement.

>>17059859
>I think deracinating people and nations is mostly useful insurance against some shit that the power center can't handle.
It's not "insurance", it's a cornerstone of their strategy. They haven't even been subtle about it; in Praktischer Idealismus Coudenhove-Kalergi (who was so important to the foundation of the UN that he got to choose their flag and anthem) described a future in which a trans-national and predominately Jewish global elite composed of royalty and technocrats would rule over a global serf class of deliberately mongrelized consumers who would be so deracinated, controlled and distracted that meaningful resistance would effectively be impossible. It's like equal parts 1984 and Network.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35DSdw7dHjs

>>17062600
It has nothing to do with Jews and more to do with it being a logical consequence of liberal ideology. Liberal ideology was invented by Thomas Hobbes, John Locke and so on, who were Anglican Brits.

The idea of deracination and destruction of culture and nationhood is literally foundational to liberalism because those things aren't freely chosen by individuals themselves, e.g they are coercive institutions that must be destroyed.

John Stuart Mill literally writes himself in On Liberty that he longs for a future where there is literally *no* arbitrary restraint on an individual person's liberty, whether it be culture, nationality, religion, ethnic bonds or whatever else.

You blame Jews for the internal logic of liberalism because you're a pathetic dumb-dumb, when it's simply the logical consequence of this 500 year Western ideological journey where Jews aren't even remotely relevant.

>>17062910
>the eternal Anglo

>>17047903
Very interesting read, thank you for posting it OP but I fundamentally disagree with the OP. It asserts or implies that what's happening in the modern world is being pushed consciously. We live in the age of the internet. The division we see right now is due to the technological advancement of the internet, that allows people to interact in new ways (social media). With greater and more rapid access to information, it's natural to expect a divergence of social norms and values. Hopefully our institutions can whether the storm as we move through this transitory period and we reach a true "new normal".

What I find to be truly strange, is the success of SJW ideology. It was so strange seeing it back in Tumblr in 2012, and somehow now it's being adopted by the global world order. How is it that SJW ideology has appealed so strongly to so many people. And how is it that they've all adopted the exact same set of beliefs? One would expect greater variety of ideology but it seems a consensus is trying to be established around SJWism.

>>17063049
>It was so strange seeing it back in Tumblr in 2012, and somehow now it's being adopted by the global world order.
I used to wonder about this a lot. Still do. These people seriously did not exist beyond the confines of a very remote corner of the internet. The suddenness with which it all exploded into mainstream politics is nothing short of spectacular.

>>17063200
>>17063049
If you guys really don't know, it's because there is a pipeline from the Ivy League, which is where this theory originates, to the prestigious news outlets and civil service jobs. It's a relatively small group of people, and they all know each other, and they dictate the opinions and tastes of the would-be cultured American class.

>>17050325
>After the 1960s, liberalism started to fall out of fashion
completely the opposite, liberalism was dead.

>>17063049
>It asserts or implies that what's happening in the modern world is being pushed consciously
not really, which parts gave you that feeling? several posts in this thread go into how different parts of the system have incentives that result in the whole of the system behaving like this, and perpetuating itself

>>17063279
also

>>17062910
I'm not "blaming Jews"; Coudenhove-Kalergi stated in his book that the elite he described would be mostly Jewish because the Jews were already over-represented among the highest echelons by dint of their mindset, history and status. The man was an avowed philosemite who viewed the Jewish elite of Europe as a model for and the forebears of his envisioned cosmopolitan global elite.

>>17063449
>I'm not "blaming Jews"
why not what the fuck is wrong with you?

>>17047976
it is a precise summation of the current situation.

anyone with a brain who was involved in Occupy Wall Street already knows this stuff, but I'm glad someone official is saying it out loud

>>17063589
I meant in the context of that statement; I absolutely blane the jews for the current state of affairs.

>>17054875
short answer is that the nature of grace is seen differently by protestants and catholics. catholics have grace dispensed through the form of the church whereas protestants think that they get it through faith alone. this however necessitates constant activity to detect and demonstrate one's state of grace. it's not a coincidence that the rise of protestantism happened at the same time as the bourgeoisie was replacing the aristocracy as the ruling class

>>17064334
>it's not a coincidence that the rise of protestantism happened at the same time as the bourgeoisie was replacing the aristocracy as the ruling class
The writing was on the wall for the Catholic monopoly on salvation as soon as the idea of nationalism matured and states started bullying the church instead of vice versa.

>>17059289
Puerto Rico moved to Massachusetts.

>>17063049
SJW ideology is a reaction to the failure of the Obama administration to finally produce equality for blacks (thus representing the failure of Civil Rights), combined with new technology in the form of social media. It is popular because the most important religious concern for the American Ivy League elite is black equality. See >>17063226

>>17047925
Malapropism for gentry.

>>17062910
Those 'restraints' are the opposite of arbitrary; they are the expressions of divergence at a genetic level (even the character of a religion is thusly influenced). The restraints are important for preserving true diversity. I very much doubt Mill was envisioning 'liberty' to manifest in a Britain constituted of South-Asians & Blacks.

Now, I do agree that liberalism was destined to become progressivism and perhaps even that Europeans are especially vulnerable to this pitfall due to a predisposition towards individualism. This doesn't mean, however, that jews had nothing to do with it.

They have blatantly exacerbated and exploited the foolish notions of progressivism (via hollywood, MSM, political influence via finance, academia) despite exhibiting high in-group preference themselves. They have been manipulating host nations to their benefit for a thousand years. They were the pioneers of globalism as an ideology (not just trade), which is the extrapolation of their host-nation manipulation strategy to an international scale.

pic related is tl;dr for those of u who don't want to read all that

This all feels a bit propagandy, although interesting.