/lit/ - Literature

>>17041411
worst rider

>>17041411
People who subscribe to modern ideologies are generally terrible at comprehending any pre-modern modes of thought, let alone of entertaining a pre-modern perspective even for a moment. Most of the time they are completely unaware of what they are missing.
They look at a phenomenon like "astrology" (which was in ancient times synonymous with "astronomy") and cannot but conclude that this was cooked up by the equivalent of Jews wanting to dupe others and gain power and money. They look at the ubiquitous mentions of gods and spirits among all the peoples of the worlds and cannot but conclude that this was because they didn't have science and had to somehow explain why clouds rain.
And in the particular case of feminists, they have convinced themselves so deeply that prior to the 1960s, the entire globe was such a deeply hostile environment to females of every kind that even the lowliest of dogs was granted more dignity, and this especially so in the West, which is most often the target of these distortions, and also since modernists are inevitable eurocentric, even while they vehemently deny it.
So now to come to the point: To see a female in some kind of position of authority or power in a culture that they view as not connecting to "their own", which they view themselves as actively overthrowing, and especially if one can further try to claim that this culture was replaced by the one they're trying to overthrow, inspires a desire to project ones own ideology on this culture, just as the saying goes that the enemy of my enemy is my friend.
Of course, there has to be some kind of limit, because otherwise it would run into conflict with the other deeply held belief that all the world was in on a conspiracy against the female gender up till the 1960s, and so select targets such as Queen Medb in this instance can make for eagerly desired exceptions, even if -- indeed when has this stopped them? -- the truth does not align with this view.

>>17041411
From what I understand a 'feminist portrayal' doesn't necessarily mean that the woman is depicted as virtuous or likeable, just that she has agency and an inner-life.

>>17041461
>They look at a phenomenon like "astrology" (which was in ancient times synonymous with "astronomy") and cannot but conclude that this was cooked up by the equivalent of Jews wanting to dupe others and gain power and money.
Well, it's not like this opinion didn't exist in antiquity. See: Augustine, Cicero, Sextus Empiricus

>>17041503
The Romans, though they are in some ways much stranger to us than is generally assumed, are among "ancient" peoples perhaps the nearest to us.
But it must be remembered that astrology was ancient even to them, and had by that point likely declined to such a degree that indeed it may have been so in among the Romans, that astrology was used mainly for superstitious (in the original sense of somethig that has over-stayed) or even profane reasons.
The main point still stands.

>celtic literature
What?

>>17041411
If you think that's bad, there's a girl in my course that believes that Cu Chulainn was "a transman" because some progressive youtuber told her.

>>17041569
>hibernian versions of the scotsmans poems
thats like reading popes version of the illiad and pretending you read the iliad as it was written by homer.

>>17041411
It's the same shit as Boudicca.
>pillaged and raped towns with non-existent defenses, murder native britons, torture civilians
>outnumber roman army at least 8:1
>get irrevocably blown the fuck out, like straight up humiliated
>block your own army from retreating with strategic wagon placement
>run away like a coward only to suicide like a bitch a few days later
>the romans stay in Britain for like 300 more years solely because you were such an incompetent bitch

>>17041610
>>17041569
>>17041500
>>17041433
>>17041461
>>17041411
>da celts

>>17041599
I'm afraid you have it wrong my friend. The Irish tales are the equivalent of Homer's Illiad.

>>17041632
They aren't Irish since the man that made them was Scottish, born in Scotland to Scottish parents and made them in Scotland.

>>17041644
This is high level we wuzzery here champ

>>17041699
Not really since hundreds of places of Ossianic things appear throughout scotland and it's quite obvious the poems are not irish in origin.

>>17041715
You can map the routes where each event happened in the Tain in Ireland. We have specific placenames that match up in Ireland. It has Irish gods. It has Irish kingdoms that existed well until the English conquered the Irish. It even matches up with the so called Time of Petty Kings in Ireland. It oozes with Irishness. Now tell me what Macpherson's writings have to do with it and tell me how these "poems" are not Irish in origin.

>>17041740
>You can map the routes where each event happened in the Tain in Ireland.
>the poems in ireland are the originals
Mate....
>We have specific placenames that match up in Ireland. It has Irish gods. It has Irish kingdoms that existed well until the English conquered the Irish. It even matches up with the so called Time of Petty Kings in Ireland. It oozes with Irishness.
You've not actually laid out an argument other than Kingdoms recorded in it match with ones later on.
>Now tell me what Macpherson's writings have to do with it and tell me how these "poems" are not Irish in origin.
Rather hard to do here but I will do it in the next comment.

>>17041613
Why do people get mad when you call the Celtic peoples by their general group name? You never see the same for Germanics.

>>17041765
You, yourself have not laid out anything other than a dumb statement. Hurry up and post your fringe theory.

>>17041411
>that part in The Tain where Medb is desperate to piss and has to leave the battlefield to relieve herself

>>17041740
Where are the Irish poems that Macpherson stole from? I have yet to see them.
Macpherson never set foot in Ireland nor could read any Irish so it's difficult to understand how he could have possibly stolen anything as he could not have touched an Irish manuscript nor read it if he was given one.
So by that Macpherson is required to have translated from Scottish manuscripts and stories he was told.

>>17041804
Since it's the equivalent of going.
>Why do people think that Juliet is supposed to be a feminist portrayal of women in Germanic literature? She's portrayed as a greedy, adulterous, a terrible leader, without honour and so on. If anything Romeo and Juliet is a story about why you should never allow a woman to do what she wants.

>>17041849
Ah so you have nothing to offer in regard to the Tain somehow being a corruption of the so called Scottish poems.

>>17041864
No, just that Ossian was a Scotsman and I will hold that until it is proven otherwise.

>>17041905
No one said Ossian if he were a real person wasn't Scottish you schizo

>>17041973
> It oozes with Irishness.
Seems so.

>>17042037
Yeah the Tain which is an Irish story written by Irish people, set in Ireland is Irish, how surprising. Its not my fault you don't have a good reading comprehension and are actively looking for an argument you freak.

>>17041411
I'm just here for the anime tiddies

slut