/lit/ - Literature

>>17030634
Why care? What net benefit does it bring you lol. Just fuck some hooker, lift some weights and inject some test my man

Acceptance is different from not caring

> Stoicism

Based

>>17030634
If you can do something about it, do it. If you can’t do anything about it, consider not wasting time fretting over it.

Pedo gay cuck.
Oh shit...

>>17030674
The problem with this is people take this as 'don't care about other people's issues that thwy can't change'
And then you appear as a sociopath because you have no empathy or sympathy. You can still be sympathetic while also not caring. I've met too many people who take "just don't care" too far

>>17030634
but have you tried it though? if you can't help something then why are you going to fuck yourself up over it? the alternative advice is to make shity things happen inside of yourself. you like that though right you like that big dick fucking you / don't you

>>17030777
you sound like a woman. no, i dont care that you had your period and that becky said you look fat in your leggings, stop fucking bothering me

>>17030634
Stoicism is obviously more complex than that and you know it. If you are to level any criticisms against it it should be the fact that it leaves too much room for resignation or stagnation. Like if your worldview is that only your reactions to things matters than you’re just disincentivized to strive for a meaningful impact on your surroundings. That was always my problem with it

>>17030824
Relax bro, just stop caring. Why are you getting so uptight?

>>17030878
Well meme’d!

>>17030910
Dude, just relax bro.

>>17030816
based

>>17031111
>>17030777
>>17030666

stoicism is a good first step in becoming a good person, first you turn your attention inwards, then gradually outwards to others

>>17030634
Faggots afraid of Stoicism are some of the biggest most cowardly, most atomized, jewslaves the world has ever known. Being fearful of Islam and its backwards sub human belief system makes sense. Being fearful of a management method that helps sensitive intelligent people navigate existence is pure jewish

>>17030634
>bro just turn off your brain

Does not caring work? Doesnt psychology recommend to talk about your feelings and shit?

>>17032747
t. Psychologist

>>17032747
its a philosophy and it says that your time on this planet is limited so you should choose to take everything as it comes

>>17033311
I know it's a philosophy but I wonder if it is compatible with modern science.

>>17032747
i asked this question before and got no straight answer. i wonder what a stoic would say to someone who had been systematically raped throughout their childhood. should that person just move on since nothing can be changed anyway?

>>17033376
Is there some reason that you shouldn't? What do you accomplish by clinging to it and letting it destroy your life?

>>17030634
How do I get up in the mornings?

>tfw sociopath
>when people ask I just say I'm a stoic

>>17033367
ive watched a lot of videos on it and never did i hear any mention of it not being ok to talk about your feelings. the point of it is is to not let small things bother you. for example, getting mad at the traffic lights is stupid because they cant hear you and theyre not going to change because youre mad , and being mad will only make you angrier because it feels good to be mad. its better to recognise emotions like anger as useless in situations like this and learn how to control them.

>>17033422
checked,what did MA say about controlling your anger?

>>17033406
my point wasn't that you SHOULD let it "destroy your life" but that stoicism maybe isn't the tool for larger traumatic events. for example: have you heard of attachment theory? people who have a disorganized attachment might not have the tools to just move past it.

>>17031111
Checked

>>17033422

What about getting mad at a fucking bus driver who just decided to stop altogether for a stupid reason (a malfunctioning door that actually closed, but not that well) leaving all passengers stranded and being late for work. What about that?

The internet absolutely ratfucked a lot of these dudes to the point of irrelevance and post-internet thought will emerge as its own discrete philosophical age. Some things simply do not apply to humans or human society anymore and stoicism might just suffer the worst by being half-adopted by everyone online. You can't even assume the basic ideal human mind is offline anymore.

>>17033453
I wouldn't because they probably still have shittier days than you

>>17033436
Nobody told you it'd be easy lol
Marky himself tells himself not to cling on to his own mistakes since it achieves nothing
You're not going to read Epictetus one day and be a stoic the next

>>17033453
Get mad if you want, it can be fun. But know you can choose not to pursue the anger if you wish

>>17033592
so there's no thought concerning traumas in stoicism, same rules apply?

>>17033783
yes obviously are you retarded? you're meant to face your problems and keep yourself ordered, letting things go that need to be let go once they've been dealt with internally. not ignore them or allow them to ruin you.

>>17032747
Psychology is build around women and what works for them

>>17033418
stoic has a different colloquial meaning dumb dumb. it's a word for tricking men into not acting in their interests and harming themselves obviously.

>>17033425
"How much more grievous are the consequences of anger than the causes of it." - Marcus Aurelius

>>17033422
>because it feels good to be mad.
no it doesn't. anger is poison that justifies itself, yes, but being emotionally unstable and unhappy, anger, feels awful.

>>17033783
trauma itself is a modern invention, loaded with christian meaning

every day i realise this board is dumb as dogshit and worthless. how do you fail so hard at basic, surface-level philosophy that we do this again and again? i think newcomers pick up the memes and post the same shit, those among them who begin to read and think eventually stop bothering with such threads or the board in general, then more newcomers come.

>>17033783
If its bearable, bear it.
If its not bearable, you'll die.

>>17033789
why did you delete this? i'm just curious about stoicism and trauma. as someone who works with people i can tell you a lot of people would not be able to deal with their past internally.

>>17033820
and?

>>17033800
I'm not a sexist but this emotionally resonates with me kek

>>17033838
>and?
so its obvious that greeks/romans would not have anything to say about it

>>17033367
Cognitive Behavioral Therapy is based on stoic trichotomy of control. It's actually very well researched and the leading theory in behavioral change.

>>17030634
Letting every emotion and impulse hit you with maximum force isn't caring, if anything it's the opposite

>>17030824
but it doesn't say you shouldn't strive to improve things. it's just that you should accept the result even if you fail

>>17030634
Based

>>17032618
This.
It's basically the mantra of "You don't have complete control over the world beyond yourself, but you do have complete control over the world within yourself".
If you can't change the situation, change how you perceive it and what you do with it.
Anyone opposed to this is basically a faggot who thinks that if something bothers them, then the world needs to change to please the individual instead of the other way around. See:
>Wahhh fix my problem for me!! My perception of this problem should be YOUR problem to fix!! I don't want to take emotional responsibility for myself!!

Marcus Aurelius was just the original self help author and his writing holds no more worth than that of a modern day one
Everything he wrote is intuitive for an intelligent person since birth and for the rest of the dregs of society simply reading it won't help them at all (but they will sure think it does)
All self help in a nutshell pretty much

>>17030634
I and I alone determine what I care about and how much I care for it. All springs forth from I.

>>17030634
*Punches Marcus Aurelius in the face*"Why are you so mad bro, just stop caring bro just stop caring"

>>17034523
weird how this is valid for those that accept it as the truth and for those who dont

>>17033783
Read up on Cognitive Behavioral Therapy, which is at its core not dissimilar from Stoicism, but is applied to a psychological framework.

>>17034539
>Gets so worked up over something that barely affects him that he wants to commit physical assault out of emotional frustration
I literally couldn't make a better example of a situation where Aurelius' advice rings true.

>>17034442
You mean Epictetus, Marcus wrote to himself.
>>17033833
Contribute or get out, nothing's stopping you. Complainers in every single thread on every single board.
>>17032747
It's not about not caring it's about caring about the things that you can control.
>>17034183
A large part of stoic doctrine is about attempting to improve society even if you don't have full control over the outcome.
>>17034523
Go away spook you don't scare me. I live a fulfilled live through virtuous actions.


Reading Seneca the younger is peak comfy. It's like having a old uncle sage give you life advice.

>>17034596
Picrel is Diogenes, I attempted to make a joke on a scenario in which Diogenes pulls a featherless biped and shitposts just to show the stupidity of the philosophy then go back to his tub.

>>17034629
I got your joke, it was decent.

>>17032747
>>17033376
Processing your feelings is an important part of developing detachment, so I don't see the contradiction.

>>17033820
>trauma itself is a modern invention
It's an actual thing that happens to the brain, you idiot. Neuroscience is a modern invention. How will Stoicism deal with PTSD? that's not something you can control.

>>17030634
yeah. it's called radical acceptance.

>>17034781
kek

>Hegelian misreading of Stoicism: NOOO IT INTERIORISES THE MASTER-SLAVE DIALECTIC
>Nietzschean misreading of Stoicism: NOOO IT'S LIFE DENYING, EPICURUS FTW ATARAXIA SUPERIOR TO APATHEIA FOR SOME REASON

Meanwhile

>Foucault builds his whole late, non-pozzed, philosophy of practice on the notion of Stoic askesis
>Deleuze grounds his metaphysics of difference in Stoic logic and philosophy of time

Choose wisely

>>17034442
He's an author as much as people who have diaries. He was just writing for himself and never intended to publish it.

He's right you know.

>>17034362
If you unironically believe that the average person has complete control over the "world within themselves", your understanding of human behavior is superficial and naive.

>>17030634
What was complete bullshit in Stoicism is the claim that your own daimon cannon be affected by others, and only you can harm it. Marcus also wrote that the body can be in great pain but you can somehow keep your hegemonikon completely detached from the suffering of your physical body.
I like them as sentiments but I doubt the validity

>>17035693
Do you not believe that you have control over your own actions? To believe otherwise is self-deception.
Obviously we don't have full control over our reactions. However, we have the ability to decipher our reactions to suss out the cause of them. Once the cause is found, one can then determine which course of action to take in dealing with the problem.
We can't choose our REactions, but we can choose and control our actions. If something makes you feel angry, you can't control what you initially feel, but you can control what you do with the anger. Sure, you can just wear it on your sleeve, identify with it, and be consumed by it, demanding that the world change to pacify your anger, or you can put it on the workbench, and come to terms with it. You can analyze your feelings to figure out WHY that thing made you mad, and WHY anger was the reaction that you responded with. Once you figure out why it made you mad, you can then start to find a solution from within, instead of demanding a solution from outside. You can direct your anger at the true core reason for your anger, and start using your anger to drive you toward fixing that core reason, stopping the desire for destruction and redirecting it into desire for production. Maybe once the confusion and frustration wears off, you might even realize that anger really wasn't the proper reaction, and that disappointment or different expectations would be the more honest course of action for yourself.

Like I said, if your go-to course of action in times of strife is to lash out at the world and scream at nothing/everything, you have direct control over that. You can't control being mad, but you can control what you DO with your anger, including transform it into something more productive, or understand it better and develop a more solution-oriented mindset.

What would you consider your understanding of human behavior to be? Could you provide examples of elements of our inner worlds that we do not have control over?

>>17034956
>Epictetus (c.50-c.130 A.D.), an illustrious later Stoic, maintained that living in harmony with nature is a matter of distinguishing those things within our power from those which are not, and seeking to control only the former. This involves purging oneself of desires and strong feelings concerning the latter. As Epictetus noted, “Men are disturbed not by things, but by the view which they take of things”
Imagine disagreeing with this.

>implying thats not the best advice that can be given

>>17033376
Man, if you had such a fucked up upbringing there is no "going back" to normal life. You are just filth roaming this planet and nothing will heal your corrupted mind.