/lit/ - Literature

sun also rises

>>17013718

Riley Reid

>>17013718
Warlock

>>17013744

She *would* be a 10/10 author if she did write novels based on her life.

>>17013788
Why do people think rape is losing virginity? It's literally not. You have to have sex to be a non-virgin and rape victims did not have sex. It just seems like something whores say because they want so badly to reject how we value virginity.

>>17013808
>rape victims did not have sex
what is rape if not forced sex

>>17013816
The rapist is having forced sex. If the victim was having sex it would have been consensual. Saying rape is losing virginity is like saying childbirth is sex. It's just utterly ridiculous.

>>17013808

> She forced herself over me, made me hard despite me telling her to fuck off, than slid her panties off and rode my cock until I creamed all inside her pussy.
> but I'm still a virgin because I didn't want to.

Big big brain.

>>17013718
Memoirs of Hadrian

>>17013828
Yes. Literally yes.
And you obviously fetishize rape. Stop watching porn. The only people who say rape is losing virginity are whores who want to devalue virginity.

>>17014066
How could rape possibly be a loss of virginity? Virginity is not a physical object. You weren't mugged and robbed. You didn't do anything and didn't give anything so it's not in any way possible for you to give your virginity through unwanted touching. You have to choose to. That's the point of why virginity is valuable. It's about loyalty. It's literally just feminists who want to say, "Virginity doesn't matter because it can be taken through rape" because they chose to be whores and now they don't want consquences. Virginity matters because it's your choice.

>>17014098
If a woman kisses you by suprise, would you say you haven't had your fist kiss yet

>>17013718
Damn waves is lit core? That shit was not a very good novel, even on its own terms, y’all just wanna be quirky.

>>17014098
That's not how husbands saw it on their wedding nights for the majority of human history

>>17014120
Duh. That's not even a question. I literally have never met a single person who says this is a first kiss. If any touching lips counts as a first kiss, two baby siblings who vaguely bump faces is a first kiss. If someone sexually assaults you, did you just have your first hookup? This is just an unbelievably stupid, feminist way of thinking. They will say anything to devalue sexual morality.

>>17014174
It doesn't matter what people "see" or else every abstract thought would be meaningless due to excess subjectivy. I'm not even sure what you mean though. Rape victims have always been considered virgins. There is a LOT of mythology, lore, and religious text about this type of thing and raped women are always virgins. I don't remember the names right now but raped Christian Saints are virgins.

>>17013724
fpwp. most boring art-less book ive read

>>17013808
>>17013816
>>17013828
>>17014120
>>17014246

>>17013808
Are you retarded?

>>17014246
If virginity can be taken through rape, being a "trad virgin wife" is utterly meaningless. Being sexually loyal is utterly meaningless if your loyalty can be taken from you without you doing anything wrong. This is why feminists push the idea that rape is loss of virginity so hard. They know if they win this battle, virginity will be seen as a trashy, disgusting, and meaningless concept.

>>17014287
No. Fuck off feminist. You're not going to fool me or anyone else here.

>>17013718
2666
Gravitys rainbow
Brothers Karamazov

>>17014724
3 books that can't be a 10/10 simply because of their length.

>>17013718

War & Peace

Some parts aren't perfect but they are balanced out by the parts that are somehow better than perfect

>>17013718
Better than all of the books in the West.

>>17013821
>childbirth is sex
based

>>17013808
>rape victims did not have sex
Are you mentally ill?

>>17013718
The odyssey.

Why is /lit so obsessed with Kafka?

>>17013718
Guards Guards by Terry Pratchett

I dont care what you think the man was a blessing

>>17013788
How can she admit to a crime and not be charged for it???

>If any touching lips counts as a first kiss, two baby siblings who vaguely bump faces is a first kiss.
Yes, it counts as a first kiss. In the same way, if someone rapes a virgin woman that woman loses her virginity. That's literally how it works you autist.

>>17015021
>thinking the legal system goes after criminals
How old were you when you learned that law enforcement only protects property?

>>17014994

>>17015046
Please answer my question, brother

>>17013718
Iliad & Odyssey

>>17015046
Actually they exist on behalf of insurance companies, which yes also includes property
>>17015062
I killed 60 million people anon please don't call the Hague.

>>17013718
Literally the first book on your list, Lolita, is a total 10/10.

>>17014131
I'm totally down for Waves as lit-core. Best prose poetry in the language there, incredible descriptions, and exactly the sort of multiple re-read detail-heavy autism fodder that fits.

My diary desu

>>17013718
The Book of the New Sun together with The Urth of the New Sun

>>17013718
>Siddartha
>The Grapes of Wrath
>Pale fire
>Bolaño
>Céline
>The crying of Lot 49
>The waves
>A portrait of the artist as a young man
>V.
>Don Delillo
>Heart of Noise

>Not Decameron
>Not The Bible
>Not Canterbury tales
>Not Gargantua and Pantagruel
>Not Aeschylus

Can someone explain to me why Pinchon seems to be such a big deal?

Unironically Grendel. I can't think of anything it really does wrong.

>>17013718
We have always lived in the castle.

>>17013821
>sex is definitionally consensual
This is NEXT LEVEL sophism.

There are no 10/10 pieces of media. Perfection is an ideal to strive for, but humans can never reach it.

>>17016615
Pinchmann has been /lit/'s /ourguy/ since time immemorial.

>>17013718
>lit core
>mostly anglo garbage
checks out

>>17013718
middlemarch

>>17014891
i have that edition, have read it several times. The ending is trash and rushed(after cao cao dies), the middle is bloated, and that particular translation uses the brewitt-taylor translation, which is awful. At least Outlaws of the Marsh has a consistent structure.

>>17013724
No

>>17013718

>>17015021
because she is a woman

The Karamazovs desu

Thomas Mann: The Magic Mountain

I fucking love this book. If I could suck its dick (or should I say, pencil) I would suck it hard and swallow.

>>17017584
kek

>>17013808
Why is virginity valuable at all?

>>17013718
100 Years of Solitude

>>17017756
What do you like about it

>>17013718
Going Postal.

>>17013718
The Rings of Saturn

>>17018102
reminder that the only reason people don't read Pratchett is because it doesn't appeal to the vast majority of self-insert fag fantasy readers.

>>17017988
I've seldom read fiction that captures the complexity of human emotion and relation quite as well. Overall though, it was just a fun and interesting read with profound themes like cyclical time and history. It's been one of my favorites ever since I finished it.

>>17015029
Holy shit. You're either trolling or retarded.

>>17017751
It's loyalty. You save yourself for one person.

>>17018456
Loyal to one you haven't met? Why? Shouldn't loyalty begin after a relationship is started?

>>17018478
If you're only "loyal" when the relationship starts, you're not loyal at all.

>>17013808
I'm saving my virginity for the one I love. Nothing in the world will change my mind. It's completely solid, and I'm keeping it no matter what because it is my moral/value. It is such a laughable notion that someone simply touching me can take that away from me. Nothing in the world is stronger than love and people who save their virginity for love cannot possibly have it taken away by "he/she touched my skin." I'm saving it for love. Period. I always have and always will. Feminists are sick. They're just jealous. They want to claim that virginity is meaningless 'because it's not a choice' when it always is a choice. They do this because they're not virgins themselves and they messed up and regret it so they want to tear down other girls.

>>17013828
The language you use "panties" "rode my cock" "creamed her pussy" give an automatic connotation that this is a fun hook up and he's in on it and enjoying it. Those are slang words that we use to describe a fun time. If you simply said what it actually is, she raped him, you would easily see how he is a virgin. Like the other anon said, virginity is not a physical object, so it can't just be grabbed from you.

>>17016579
>the waves
Holy fucking based. My favorite book of all time.

>>17015021
probably both under age, unless the guy presses charges it wouldnt be prosecuted

>>17013718
On this list?
>Ulysses
>Gravity's Rainbow
Pale Fire and Moby Dick are close to 10s
Not on this list, but should be
>Petersburg
>Molloy, Malone Dies, The Unnameable

>>17013718
10/10 would require beyond human ability to create. Fundamentally, 10/10 exists only to create context

>>17013808
Sex before adulthood is statutory so is everyone under 18 a virgin?
Also does that mean that the virgin Mary isnt the only woman who's both a mother and a virgin, but also every woman who took their rape baby to term?
This also means that you can be a virgin with STDs
All this really waters down the meaning of the word "virgin"

>>17020669
What the law says doesn't matter. The law could declare everyone a non-virgin at birth if they felt like it. The law could declare anything. If you choase to have sex before 18 you're not a virgin.

There are plenty of mothers who are virgins. Rape victims, single ivf mothers. Not everyone with a biological kid had sex before.
You can be a newborn baby with stds. You can get stuck with an aids needle. Defining virginity by stds is stupid.

YOU are watering down the meaning of virgin. Not being virgin anymore means you had sex. If you were raped you obviously did not have sex. You were raped. If you think someone touching genitals is sex and loss of virginity, then babies fuck their dads when they change the diaper. You have an absurd definition of virginity. Virginity just means before you had sex.
The same feminist whores who claim taking a dick in the mouth and ass means they're still a virgin will use a rape victim for their agenda to say virginity isn't a thing because it can be taken through rape. It's simple. Because virginity is not an object, it cannot be stolen without you giving it. It's your choice. It's really that simple. Someone touching you without consent doesn't take anything from you. If you chose to touch them/let them touch you then that's where you changed from virgin to non-virgin. Your choice. Anyone who says otherwise is a third wave feminist.

2666.

>>17014772
low iq take, go read Hesse

>>17016579
What's Heart of Noise about?

>>17014891
To think of this as a 10/10 you have to have a radically different perspective on what makes a good book as compared to most people, specifically you need to value the goal of the book over prose and characters (both of which are shit in Romance of the Three Kingdoms), and you have to be able to ignore the fact that it is ridiculously repetitive.

>>17013808
In a literal sense you're entirely wrong, but in terms of the spirit of the thing you're not entirely retarded, although I think that may be by accident. The key social aspect of losing your virginity is that you've connected with another person enough that they want to have sex with you, signifying that you're not hopelessly unable to interact with others. If you rape someone/been raped/paid for sex/probably some other things I'm not thinking of right now then that doesn't speak to your ability to connect with anyone else, so in terms of the social competency element of losing your virginity it "doesn't count."

Also, Don Quixote.

>>17018785
Well imedefinitely not loyal to some bitches I havent met dear anoncel

>>17013821
sex is an act between to people, this is why we 'have' it and not 'do', someone and I could have sex, but I would not do sex at them
sex is intercourse
rape is nonconsensual intercourse
therefore rape is nonconsensual sex
you lose your virginity after having sex
therefore rape robs you of your virginity, which is a large part of the reason rape is traumatizing, this has been recognized for thousands of years by historians, philosophers, psychologists and anthropologists.
You seem to think that virginity is lost if and only if one consents to, and follows through with sex, it is not, virginity is determined by whether or not intercourse took place, I agree that there is something to be said for the value of the first act of willing sex, but that is not the definition of virginity.
t. rape victim you would accuse of being a virgin

>>17022425
Are you a boy or a girl?

>>17013828
>>17019647
>forced herself over me
she physically restrained me, I couldn't leave
>made me hard despite me telling her to fuck off
I tried to get her to stop, it told her I didn't want this, she physically stimulated my genitals forcing forcing my parasympathetic nervous system to respond to her advances, and allow her to derive pleasure from using my body against my will
>slid her panties off and rode my cock until I creamed all inside her pussy
I squirmed under her as she took off her underwear because I knew what she was about to do, up until then I had been uncomfortable, even afraid, but now my fight flight freeze kicked in and I couldn't move, I was terrified, my pupils constricted to pinpricks as she swallowed up my manhood and my purity at the same time. I lay there, catatonic until nature took it's course.

That better? I think it's better.

>>17022447
male, why?

>>17022523
Hot.

>>17022545
out of interest, what would you have said to me if I had told you I was female?

>>17013808
Reminder that the following are not losing virginity:
>raping/getting raped
>fingering/getting fingered
>giving/receiving oral (male or female)
>sex with a prostitute
>sex when you are not a virgin
>giving/receiving anal/sodomizing/getting sodomized
>gay sex
>lesbian sex
>sex with a condom
>pulling out
>sex with a fat bitch

It's literally impossible to lose your virginity

>>17022656
Every single one of those except rape is losing your virginity.

>>17022507
Stop watching porn you sick freak. Stop romanticizing rape. You sound like a fat bitch writing an erotic novel.
You also put the premise you were trying to prove inside your proof without proving it. Purity cannot be stolen. That's literally the point of purity. If it could just be taken from you without you acting impure then purity would be worthless, which is what feminists push for.

>>17022391
You can't be loyal to "bitches." That's more than one person. Sexual loyalty is for one person.

>>17022708
Wrong

>>17022425
Virgin ---> you did not have sex.
Non-virgin ---> you had sex.
Rape ---> you did not have sex.
It's that simple.

Stop pretending that there is a set in stone definition of virginity. There's not. No one can agree what it is. That doesn't in any way mean it's not real. There is no set definition of love and love is real. People can't agree where blue becomes green or purple and blue is real. There is just no set definition of virginity. So for you to say "nooo that's not what it means" is not an argument. It is completely illogical to say rape could be losing virginity. Sometimes rape victims feel so awful about it they worry if their virginity was lost, and worry is not reality.

Nonconsensual sex isn't sex to the person who was raped. It's nonconsensual sex from the point of view of the rapist. If you believe rape is sex just because genitals were touched, it is impossible for you to not believe a myriad of other things are sex and losing virginity such as changing diapers, childbirth, going to the doctor.
The reason rape is traumatizing is not and never has been because you supposedly lose virginity, or else married women who are raped wouldn't care as much when they're raped, which is obviously ridiculous. It's traumatizing for everyone because it's sexual violation and sex is very important to us and it's sickening when your body parts are violated.
It is just the literal stupidest thing in the world to sex rape could be losing virginity. If you were saving your virginity for your husband or wife you'd know that. I'm saving it for my husband and if I got raped that wouldn't change the fact that I'm giving my virginity to my husband. I always will give it to him and nothing in the world can change that. You must think virginity is worthless, a social construct, flimsy, and weak if you can't understand that I'm saving it to give to my husband. A guy literally just touching me is the absolute least of all things that would stop me. If that were true, then a woman with a boyfriend or husband who gets raped cheated on him. But we all know deep down that the notion rape could be losing virginity is downright insane.

>>17016579
All great, but those books are rarely discussed on /lit/, except for the Bible which is very often discussed here. Frankly, most of the books on the OP chart aren’t really discussed anymore either. /lit/ was so different just five years ago. It's honestly very sad to me to see what it’s become

>>17018172
Same.

>>17022385
There is no "literal sense" of virginity because virginity is not a physical object. End of story. If you're the rapist or you paid someone, then you lost your virginity.

>>17022425
My friend got raped while he was sleeping by a female rapist. He was really traumatized after and didn't know what to do, he wanted sex to connect with someone and wash the rape away, but he didn't do it. He continued to save his virginity for his wife and he's married now.

>>17022838
>to sex rape
Typo
*to say rape

>>17022736
Wrong. Gay sex is still sex you homo. It's just perverted sex.

>>17021081
Low iq defense. 2666 isn't even finished.

>>17022854
I have ocd really bad so I'm all autistic about things going bad. If something goes wrong, to me it means everything that it can mean. All things are filled out. Something minor can mean everything. That's how my brain works right now (I'm trying to fix the problem). And even I acknowledge rape isn't losing virginity. It's not possible because of what virginity means.

>>17022730
1 I don't watch porn
2 I was arguing against the notion that RIley R. wasn't a rapist, and I certainly wasn't romanticizing the act
3 what fucking side are you on?? I honestly cant fucking tell, can you reply to all your posts and state your stance clearly in 1 post please?
4 I was agreeing with you??? at least about RR being a rapist? why are you arguing with me??
5 purity has a historical context, if you want different semantics or cultural connotation, make a new word.
>>17022838
Virginity is a social construct, yes, what it constitutes is not in debate however, there is an agreed upon definition, this is from merriam webster: "a person who has not had sexual intercourse" like I said before, if you don't like it, make a new word.

>>17023113
>Virginity is a social construct
Goodbye, retarded feminist.

>>17023113
I'm the same anon who just replied to you but I forgot to say, yeah I already agreed the rapist is not a virgin if they rape someone. They're the one who did it. I said the rape victim is a virgin. Your photo only proves the rapist isn't a virgin.

>>17023145
wtf do you mean? isn't that what you were positing? You're drawing an arbitrary line an then creating a special case where that line behaves in a way that it wouldn't without further specification "sex removes virginity... except for when when one person doesn't want to have sex" like, wtf do you mean, are you seriously going to sit here and tell me that virginity is as clear cut as math and the rules of logic? Are you that fucking thick? Rape is bad, you shouldn't consent to sex lightly because the first consensual intercourse has value and there's nothing wrong with saving yourself for a future partner, but RAPE REMOVES VIRGINITY, I lost mine to rape when I was fuckin 6 and I'm not any less of a person for it, my first time will still be special but I HAVE EXPERIENCED SEXUAL INTERCOURSE, BECAUSE I HAVE BEEN RAPED, WHICH MEANS THAT I HAVE LOST MY VIRGINITY. PLEASE LEARN WHAT WORDS MEAN INSTEAD OF WISHING THEY MEANT WHAT YOU WANT THEM TO.

>>17016579
Why do you think the crying of lot 49 is 10/10?

>>17023224
You didn't lose your virginity when you were 6. Rape doesn't remove virginity. If a rape victim is a non-virgin, their rapist doesn't count as a sexual partner. Them being a virgin doesn't magically make rape count.
You are using emotion instead of logic. It might feel like rape took your virginity because you were violated and traumatized, and you might worry about it. But it literally did not take your virginity.

>>17015009
le random

Books are supposed to be discussed on this board, right?

>>17022735
Idk sounds lame, smells of cope, and tastes like tears.

>>17023280
oh fuck you, now you're just disputing objective definitions and accusing me of unchecked pathos ad hominem, fuck off back to /pol/ you absolute moron. Cope somewhere else, you're uglying up my board.

>>17023277
Read properly you fag. He is asking to replace those.

>>17023310
You were traumatized. That's why you're so adamant about being wrong. It's ok, just give it up. Nothing was taken from you.

>>17023280
This.

Blindness by Jose Saramago

>>17022507
>That better? I think it's better.

Yes it is.
Good work anon.
Have a rare Theti for your work.

>>17014289
Virginity is not a moral feature. It's a physical state