/lit/ - Literature

>Inb4 LNs are just YA of japan
false. Different labels appeal to different age demographics. They are just subculture novels like pulpfiction.

You forgot to mention toaru majutsu no index

I just read a light novel and it was fun but it was not anywhere near what I would call lit. Might try one of these out I guess. But if it seems bad I'm dropping it

>>16999082
>anime for LN is announced
>fans of this LN swear "it's not like the others" and it's actually the best thing ever
>anime comes out
>it's more bottom of the barrel crap and the differences with the other generic shit are just cosmetic
I've never encountered a single counterexample to this cycle.

>>16999161
Index is fucking trash

I have read a lot of LNs because they are an easy way to fill a boring afternoon (better than mindless internet browsing, at least) but I've never encountered one I would put close to even low literature like genre fiction or the little bit of YA I've read.

>>16999329
Yeah, novels (light, visual) are better than anime. Your point?

>>16999352
>I-I swear the shitty story is good in the source material

>>16999352
Anime is always better than light novels because you don't have to suffer the terrible prose and can enjoy the visuals and VA performances. The only ones crying are the weeb autists who treat these garbage novels as their holy gospel

>>16999366
They also like to argue that these things have good prose, but it is not translatable so it's just a coincidence that they all read like juvenile trash in English.

>>16999365
Fate stay/night is 10/10 as a game and anime is shit. The characters are different and the feeling is much different. It's well animated and story is mostly the same, but the vibe is much different, less rich.

>>16999375
>Fate stay/night is 10/10 as a game
>as a game
An important qualification. It's more like 3/10 as a piece of literature.

>>16999082
>>16999091
>>16999161
>>16999329
>>16999375
Grow up

>>16999384
Nah, 3/10 would be an average visual novel
Fate/stay night has some nice dreamy Homerian descriptions. It's like 6/10 as a piece of literature, which is better than 90% of young adult books

>>16999082
>>16999352
>>16999375
>>16999386
Imagine being a grown man and being obsessed with reading stories about the relationship problems of teenage girls.

>>16999395
>It's like 6/10 as a piece of literature
Weebs actually believe this.

>>16999399
imagine being a grown man assuming that the thing is x, because you think so, so it must be that way

>>16999399
>Imagine living in 21st century and still reading books about depressed incels.
I can make low effort shitposts too

>>16999409
I know how it is because VNs were my primary hobby for years.

>>16999329
Read any one of the LNs I mentioned in OP? Don't believe /a/.

>>16999082
Not really. Almost all light novels are made from a consumerism point of view, this is clear from the fact that editors have the power to change whatever they want in the story if they think it will appeal to more people that way and honestly I see little worth in works made by people who are shackled by the greed of businessmen and consequently write for money instead of art. That said, I did try some light novels (Re Zero, HakuMari) and I was quite disappointed by their writing, it's indeed not even close to classic literature, there's no style, no particularly noteworthy descriptions, nothing, it's just straightfoward and made to be understood by the lowest common denominator. In regards to the stories themselves, it resembles anime and that's it, there's nothing really deep, noteworthy or even comparable to good literature in LNs because the whole market does not allow for that, it's a market made to appeal to anime fans, not to make good literature. I'm not saying you shouldn't be allowed to like it, everyone has their guilty pleasures, but you're either misguided or turning a blind eye to the truth when saying things like
>The best of modern 21st century japanese literature is from LNs
Because if that was true, it would be more of a statement on how poor modern japanese literature is than on the quality of light novels themselves.

>>16999418
What books are those? I've never read one.

>>16999386
>”Grow Up”
>reads undergraduate tier vapid American fiction about racism and adventure for remainder of life, like a boss

>>16999420
There are VNs that deal with cool themes like saihate no ima, sakura no uta, muramasa.

>>16999386
Well at least in comparison with /lit/ fags who posture with hardcover stacks of classics that guy actually read what he claims to be his hobby

>>16999433
>There are VNs with cool themes like these that I purposefully picked because they aren't translated and I assume you can't read them, thus allowing me to make this claim without facing any criticism ;)
All of you faggots are the same.

>>16999082
LNs are written terribly, and that's coming from someone who likes anime and manga

>>16999429
Mccarthy trash

>>16999451
Which one is about a "depressed incel"?

>>16999433
>When your hobby is so shitty you can only defend it by appealing to things you haven't read

Commenting about translated prose made by people without any experience in creative writing doesn't indicate the quality of the original prose

>>16999375
Since when is FSN a light novel?

>>16999465
I will care about this cope when you can
1) point to a single translation that you consider acceptable, and
2) prove that you know Japanese

>>16999433
It's very ridiculous to me how those visual novels like SubaHibi tries to touch on deep themes like Wittgenstein's philoosphy but then in the middle they throw some completely unrelated porn fanservice. How do they expect me to take their stories seriously when they themselves made the game to appeal to otakus?

>>16999428
>>16999428
Not really. Almost all classic novels are made from a pseudery point of view, this is clear from the fact that pseud authors have the tendency to write whatever they want in the story if they think it will appeal to pseuds that way and honestly I see little worth in works made by people who are shackled by their pretentiousness and consequently write for pseudery instead of art. That said, I did try some classics (Ready Player One, The Alchemist) and I was quite disappointed by their writing, it's indeed not even close to Light Novels, there's no style, no particularly noteworthy descriptions, nothing, it's just straightfoward and made to be understood by the lowest common denominator. In regards to the stories themselves, it resembles tv shows and that's it, there's nothing really deep, noteworthy or even comparable to good LNs because the whole market does not allow for that, it's a market made to appeal to pseuds, not to make good literature. I'm not saying you shouldn't be allowed to like it, everyone has their guilty pleasures, but you're either misguided or turning a blind eye to the truth when saying things like
>The best of western literature is the western classics
Because if that was true, it would be more of a statement on how poor western literature is than on the quality of classics themselves

>>16999465
That's not true because even if it was a bad translation you'd still be able to see some sparks of geniality from the author's prose, even longer and better descriptions, but no LN I read had any of that. It's possible to see clearly even through a bad translation that the author can't write on a high level.

>>16999486
>Ready Player One, The Alchemist
Those books aren't classics.

>>16999476
LNs/VNs aren't translated by pros. localization cartel just hires normal fans who can read japanese. This doesn't affect the quality of bland bullshit like moege or harem romcom LNs but these people's poor skills can't do justice to the original prose when translating works of writers like romeo, akiyama etc who are celebrated for their prose style in japanese circles.

>>16999506
Waiting on you to answer either of my criteria. My reasoning is
1) I find it inconceivable that there is not a single successful translation that is able to convey the supposed quality of these works, and
2) if you do not know Japanese then you are speaking from secondhand knowledge and have no clue what these authors' prose style is like to begin with.

>>16999490
Read oosawa megumi stuff if you want longer and complex witty descriptions

>>16999525
*Google 大澤めぐみ
Searching in English doesn't give any results

>>16999530
>>16999525
I'll add it to my list.

>>16999525
>>16999530
>Read this thing that isn't translated. I'm not actually recommending it, but I'm giving you something I know you can't read because it insulates me from any criticism ;)
Always the same thing.

>>16999518
1)there are translations which are superior to original Japanese prose but it's due to the original text being terrible to begin with. I already explained to you why none of these subculture authors whose prose is celebrated in Japanese circles have any good translations(most of them don't even have any translations).
2)I can read Japanese.

>>16999556
>most of them don't even have any translations
Wow how convenient for the weebs that like to talk about their genius prose style.

>>16999494
And yet I'm perfectly capable of judging the classics

>>16999544
Most of the books I mentioned in OP are well-known and critically acclaimed in Japan. I'm not pulling some obscure shit out of ass to seem like an enlightened hipster. It's not my fault most of them aren't translated.

>LN localization doesn't use honorifics
>the translator slips up and there's a name with honorifics at least once per volume
It feels so natural to everyone who reads this shit, why even try westernize it? Or else get an actual proofreader to avoid embarrassing blunders like this

>>16999570
The weeb must always appeal to untranslated material. As soon as something is translated, he knows it is exposed and its inferiority becomes apparent. Oh, that thing, that I was just telling you was a masterpiece? You read it in English? Oh.. uh... *cough* well, it's not really that great, as you can tell. My tastes have simply improved, haha.

>>16999570
I'm aware of Zaregoto and Qualia. They're meh.

>>16999583
Are you referring to kamige meme in VN community? VN communities actually get a lot of good stuff translated unlike LNs where most of the time only those with popular anime adaptation is translated.

>>16999597
Oh it applies to VNs too. Dies Irae is a good example. For those who remember, it was a "literary masterpiece" prior to being translated. Now our Japanese speaking friends don't like to talk about it anymore for some reason.

My main problem with VNs is that the medium forces writes to adhere to a certain harem format or school setting or teenshit problems or moe tropes.
Something like jintai isn't possible in eroge medium.

>>16999634
writers*

>>16999622
Reminds me how /a/ would swear the Sword Art Online LN was the best shit ever before it got animated.

>>16999634
There are VNs that don't have any of that, they're just rare. Try Hanachirasu.

>>16999494
You missed it. Went right over your head

>>16999634
>medium
Not the medium, but the market.

>>16999661
I know there are a couple of good exceptions. I used jintai as an example because it exudes creative energy that Romeo never exhibited to such level when he worked on VNs even when he was working on high level concepts in Saihate no ima.

>>16999082
I seriously tried to read a couple LNs. They were written at like an 8th grade reading level and I just couldn’t continue.

Subahibi filtered me once, but then I came back and loved it. It's the only VN that I would rec to everybody on /lit/. It's an epic trip. It will be fun to come back to it again after I've read all the books mentioned in it.

>>16999481
This shit gets even more annoying in Sakura no uta where sca-ji can't make up his mind whether he wants a bland moege with horny one-dimensional heroines or high level art stuff.

>>16999481
>>16999761
IMO that was why it was good. I don't know why a girl getting raped by a dog and philosophical musings shouldn't be allowed to exist in the same work. He definitely writes for otakus, but idk that's fine by me. I don't think any of the whacky stuff excludes it from being considered serious.

The only VN I've played approaching /lit/ level was YU NO

>>16999782
There's too much porn. 80% of the invention chapter is literally just fetish porn. It's completely overdone, ruins the pacing, funny instead of being disturbing or disorienting. I get the point but the writer could've removed half of those porn scenes to come up with a better way to communicate the sense of dread and suffering.

>>16999819
Island is better

>>16999758
It has like one decent chapter. I don't get why this is so liked.

>>16999869
You get a porn scene of the female teacher raping her father, then a porn scene of her riding her bike around in public naked while pissing herself, then you DON'T get a porn scene of her being used as a human toilet by all the cult members. The game really dropped the ball at that point, IMO.

>>16999890
No one cares about it these days.
JOPs have latched onto musicus

>>16999869
I don't mind it. Porn is a given in this medium.

>>16999890
It's My Own Invention and Looking Glass Insects are both great. I agree that the stuff that comes after that is weak, but those two stories make the work.

>>16999899
Well, it is a 10 year old game.

>>16999899
>musicus
Unlike other games, they won't get years to lord this one over people since it has a translation coming out in a few months.

>>16999899
I don't know if you know japanese but how is muramasa? Is it another case of JOPs overhyping because it's never ever tier? Dies Irae and subahibi were both called goats by JOPs but turned out to be mediocre shit.

>>16999944
The writer only wrote two VNs. The other one, Hanachirasu, is translated, so you can read that to get a rough idea. It's very good.

>>16999082
>>16999161
>>16999375
>>16999758
FUCK OFF Tojolover, this is an AMERICAN website.

>>17000002
>Hanachirasu

Is this inspired by Mishima?

>>17000021
Yes, though it primarily has to do with the setting.

>>16999921
I think musicus will become a cult classic among EOPs. JOPs as always overrated and overhyped it. This is probably the easiest recommendation to people who aren't really into otaku media aesthetic/tropes. It at least has actual characters instead of archetypes.

>>17000084
The only worry is whether it gets a good translation. No one knows who the translator is.

>>17000098
Any decent translator who isn't an ESL can deal with setoguchi's prose.

>>17000137
I tried reading the translation of Kira Kira a little while back and I got spooked.

>>16999082
I need VN's, VN's about incest.

>>17000156
Onikiss, onigyu

No they're not, they're always blatantly shoehorning pedophilia and their degenerate fetishes into their works. If Japan wants to be taken seriously it needs to stop shoving moeshit down people's throat.

>>17000156
>>17000182
You need Jesus.

>>16999582
because it was written for children

>>17000193
If Japan does whatever you're proposing here then they'll become globally irrelevant. Thousands of gaijins aren't learning Japanese to read their normalfag literature and watch jdrama.

>>17000239
>if japan stops being full of pedophiles it will become irrelevant
>implying the faggots who learn japanese to watch animated CP are quantitatively relevant

>>16999481
Fucking Kimika in the ass helped me live happily.

>>16999399
Imagine being a grown man on a board obsessed with a book children read in highschool.

>>17000364
Not as much as you do.

>>16999758
The game misinterpreted Wittgenstein.

>>17000592
Elaborate more

>>17000193
Yup, in the last few days I've been looking how to get into Riichi Mahjong and guess what? The most active game is one where you play as waifus. I don't really hate anime artstyle but what the fuck does waifus have to do with Mahjong? This completely turned me off from the game. Hopefully, I found another one on Steam with a very clean and straightfoward UI and no waifu bullshit (it's called Mahjong Nagomi if anyone's interested), sadly few people play it online. I don't know if there's a Discord group for it, but this would help the game stay more alive, I might make one in the future if there isn't any.

>>17000604
It clings to Wittgenstein's early philosophy and completely ignores his latter works where he destroys his old ideas. Common mistake because his early works are considered cool and edgy nowadays so people tend to get more interested in them than in the actual important stuff.

>>17000699
well maybe it's more about the philosophy of the tractatus, not wittgenstein the person

>>17000708
Nah, it makes a stink about Wittgenstein the person and quotes from his diaries and shit.

>>16999082
>>Disco Tantei Suiyobi

Isnt that just no longer human fanfiction?

>>17000676
Just play Tenhou.

>>16999365
>VA performances
ONEECHAN BAKA HENTAI EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>17001306
oniichan

>>16999329
> the book is better

>>17000194
Reading the bible, particularly the old testament, during church services as a child helped me become a degenerate anon. It's full of incest, both implied and implicit.

>>17001883
And that's why dumb people like you weren't allowed to read the Bible in the middle ages.

Can we just ban this shit already.

>>17002534
Fuck u american, this is anime site

bump

>>17000156
classic right here

>>16999082
>>16999329
Japanse pop culture fans in the US tend to be in love with the idea of finding an obscure piece of fiction that looks stupid but is actually a masterpiece. It's like they're always trying to recapture the "hey, this weird Japanese cartoon is actually pretty good" moment they had back when they were exposed to anime for the first time.

>>17004463
As a long time weeaboo, there is definitely a chasing-the-dragon aspect to it. The first time I watched anime(otaku stuff, not DBZ or Pokemon), the novelty and sexiness sent my 14 year old hormonal brain into overdrive and it actually got me high. So it's been an endless search to recapture that feeling. It will never happen, but occasionally I will pick up something enjoyable enough to make me happy that I kept up the hobby.

>>17000193
Last time Japan wanted to be taken seriously several million people died

>>17004463
>in love with the idea of finding an obscure piece of fiction that looks stupid but is actually a masterpiece
That's an interesting take. I'm not murrican, but other than that I guess this applies to me since my favorite manga is Baki.

>>16999375
>Fate stay/night is 10/10 as a game
Game? I thought it was just some stupid picture book?

>>17004503
>the novelty and sexiness sent my 14 year old hormonal brain into overdrive and it actually got me high.
Wow damn, I didn't know anyone shared this sentiment. Watching Ranma 1/2 as a kid will FUCK you up.

>>17005112
I think this is the one that fried my brain and turned me retarded. IIRC some Latin American kid killed himself because he could never be with Ikaros. It is certainly a strange phenomena and I've always been curious about the actual science behind it. I don't think any other form of art has had such power over people.

bump

Dont most vns have pretty shitty sales and thus most of them get manga adaptations?

visual novels are all written horribly and are translated even worse. who the fuck would read anime?

>>16999082
The only LNs I like were Boogiepop, Kara no Kyoukai, and Zaregoto, but even those are pretty dinky compared to non-weeb literature unless you're into their atmosphere.

>>17006153
People who want to fuck their sister but don't want to go to jail

>>16999082
bro why u gotta be such a dipshit for this like own it bro we know you do it for the cunny. we all at some point have nutted one for cunny, some regularly some not so often. you dont have to be a creep about and go justify it in such a pathetic way "NONONO THIS IS AKSHUALLY PROFOUND AND INTELLIGENT" no bro we know you just like to masturbate and to feel superior just because some shitty work references some obscure philosopher that is unknown to laymen but is entry level at any university

>>16999481
and don't you fucking post my wife you faggot marisa is mine and only mine

>Why yes, I only read overpowered isekai fantasy harem wish-fulfillment stories. How could you tell?

>>16999082
The only good LN/WN works are FUNA novels and cultivation.

>>17006243
>we all do it but that doesn't make it right
This will never not be the biggest normalfag cope of all time.

I made this post >>17000011 #, I apologise for the racism expressed in that post, I didn't really mean to be racist, I only wanted to rile up the people ITT, in truth I like Japanese people.

>>17007479
There is absolutely nothing wrong with your post.

>>17006243
Nobody is fapping to LNs when actual porn exists lmao, maybe fanmade porn of the characters at best

>>17007479
Which government agency visited you?

>>17007508
You'd be surprised

>>17007529
Generally only ones with niche fetish situations. The thing with anime, LNs, etc, it's that except for the most extreme stuff it usually isn't fap material in itself, the design is that people get attached to or teased by the characters and make their own fap material out of it.

>>17007529
You're confusing VNs with LNs

>>17007568
I am not. As I said, you'd be surprised.
I bet you think women read Anne Rice without schlicking to it.

>>16999082
Goblin Slayer, Overlord, and Welcome to the NHK.

>>16999481
What's wrong with appealing to otakus though?

>>17007670
Men aren't women, the male audience for written erotica isn't that big and mostly centered on catering to specific fetishes. It's been shown multiple times that men are the more visual sex when it comes to arousal. Also, LNs are like written manga. Most of them are wish fulfillment fantasy adventure plot with a few fanservice insert images or scenes thrown in so they can sell the thing. Not a lot of LNs even focus much on their romantic sideplot, some barely even bother to throw in the fanservice if at all. I'm not saying there aren't guys out their who directly fap while reading LNs, but I'm gonna go out on a limb and say it's by far the minority, especially when so many more efficient materials exist to do the same job.