/lit/ - Literature

>>16990822

By the time you turn 20 you should get a bit more perspective.

If this is a sincere question, study John and read Fulton Sheen's Life Of Christ to out Jesus into context of relevance

>>16990822
Your word salad was hard to get through.
If you like Jews then accept Christianity if you don't then don't. Its simple.

Christian culture is centered around Jews. They have holidays for Jews. They killed hundreds of thousands of white men to worship Jews. They listen to Jewish psalms. They elect a Jew as their first pope. They call you a Jew for not worshiping a Jew. They draw the entirety of their culture from Jewish mythology. They post stories about Jews. They celebrate the religious life of Early Jews. Their biggest event of the year involves the birth of a Jew. They use Jewish words like "Hallelujah" and "Amen" and name their children after Jews. When you say "Judeans/Israelites" they're not thinking of a Middle Eastern people. They're thinking of their "ancestors". Their churches are completely adorned with Jews. They worship their saints and prophets disproportionately filled with Jews and their Apostles also filled with Jews. Their men sit around dying for the King of the Kews while their women sit around praying to a Jewish mother. They worship Jews like Saul of Tarsus and Jehohanan and Thomas and the rabbi Yeshuah bar Yosef while attacking the Greeks and Romans who actually built an empire and scientific institutions before Jew worshipers took over. They hate Jews who don’t worship their Jew but love Jews who do worship him. They send their Jew worshipers to kill those who don’t worship Jews and celebrate when Ancient European monuments and shrines get destroyed because they don’t honour Jews. They read Jewish books to a point where "Holy Lands" does not make them think of their ancestral homelands but about a desert instead. They will tell you how much they hate Jews and how they threw them out all the time and they are just pretending to live with them now but the evidence speaks for itself in that Christianity has always been and will be a religion of Jew worship

Go back atheshart all your pints have been addressed with the rise and fall of nu atheists

>>16990913
Actually the opposite.

Let me guess, your parents made you go to Sunday school and you wanted to stay home and play video games?

>>16990822
>it's basically stuff taken from every mythology but put through a joo lens
There is no bigger indicator that somebody has absolutely zero knowledge of the relevant mythologies. All you're doing is repeating things you've heard from equally idiotic atheists.

>>16991198
Deucalion.

>>16991236
Flood myths exist in other cultures, therefore what? If anything it should lead us to believe that a large flood actually happened.

>>16991256
So why should I take the words of Noah and the Bible as true, and not what the other people said? What makes it special? A flood happened but only Noah, and therefore the Bible, are the true account?

>>16991264
Yeah that's exactly what I'm arguing, you fucking idiot.

>>16991198
It's pretty fuckin obvious bye flood myth comes down from Mesopotamia and that region. If you read there shit it's literally almost all floods. The fact that jews used to be canaanites and then became Christians makes it pretty obvious where they got a lot of their ideas.


TLDR;its all from iraq baby

>>16991434
The Jews used to be Canaanites. Brilliant.

>>16991256
One singular large flood did not happen. Had such an event occurred the enter scientific community would know. Just because a bunch of books written by primitive uneducated and barbaric nomads in the desert thousands of years ago seems to have matching accounts of one supposed global catastrophe does not equate to actual evidence.

>>16991198
>no really guys, all of these stories and myths and motifs and tropes that show up in 4000BC Sumerian literature were ACTUALLY invented by this one single desert tribe that only actually congealed into something coherent around 500BC, and everyone else just stole them from THEM!
did you actually think this one through?

I don’t see how anyone can sympathize with the tribes of Israel. I’m glad they’ve been brutally subjugated throughout history.

>>16991452
Genesis doesn't assert that a worldwide flood took place. Modern readers may interpret passages in Genesis that describe water covering "the earth" as meaning the entire planet was inundated. But a resident of ancient Mesopotamia may have only understood "the earth" to mean "the land" or the region he knew. In fact, the Hebrew word for "earth" in this passage, eretz, can also mean "land," as in Genesis 41:57, where it says that "all the eretz came to Egypt to buy grain" when a famine struck the region. Of course, this doesn't mean that everyone on the planet went to Egypt to buy grain, just those people who inhabited the region the author was referring to went there.

This also happens to be consistent with evidence that geologists have discovered near the black sea where melting could have caused the collapse of giant ice dams about seven thousand years ago. Such an event would have triggered sudden, massive flooding across a wide area, which would have served as the basis for all the flood accounts in the region.

>>16991453
Similar accounts of a massive flood in the Ancient Near East should serve to corroborate the Genesis account, not contradict it. The Author of Genesis may also have used popular storytelling devices found in other flood narratives in order to show how the God of the Israelites was superior to pagan deities. For example, in the Epic of Gilgamesh the gods are afraid of the flood and flee to higher ground, but in Genesis God is in complete control of the disaster and is unaffected by it.

The Epic of Gilgamesh also seems to have been derived from an even older story called the Epic of Atrahasis. In this story, a pantheon of gods flood the earth because human beings had become too huberous and noisy. The author of the Genesis account may even have been purposefully subverting this anti-life attitude in his own narrative in which God commands that Adam and Eve "be fruitful and multiple." God's decision to send the flood in judgment of sin instead of as a population control measure would be a further subversion of this theme.

>>16990822
You understand nothing.

>>16991256
No, they don't. "Flood Myths" only exist in cultures derived from the Sumerians, who are referencing the very real flooding of the Persian Gulf (a process that takes place over several floodings, of course). The Jews, like all Semites, got their "Flood Myths" from them.

If we look at other cultures, we see the Finnish flood myth, in which the Gods make the world by solidifying it out of an endless see of giant's blood; the Chinese flood myth, in which the God of the Yellow River is angered by human sacrifice, so a hero has to invent irrigation and dams; the various American flood myths, in which the world is an endless sea, and the earth-diver has to swim down to the ocean floor to shovel dirt around to make the land. There's a Welsh "flood myth" about a kingdom that sinks. The Hindu flood myth involves multiple men hiding in a fish; they repopulate the land with other women who survived.

"The Gods flood the entire Earth because they're mad and one guy loads a bunch of animals into a boat" is a Sumerian myth that is only found in areas influenced by Sumer. The idea that it "belongs" to the Jews, who weren't even a coherent people until the fucking Hellenistic period, is absolutely retarded.

>>16991483
>No, they don't.
Yeah, just sit there and tell that flood myths don't exist in other cultures while also talking about other cultures that have flood myths. This is internet atheism in a nutshell. You people cannot be reasoned with.

>>16990822
One of your gods fucked a horse. You can’t act like your gods are less degenerate lol.

>>16991495
Are you retarded? They're not the same fucking thing. When morons like you talk about a "flood myth", they're saying
>the entire world is flooded
>by god(s)
>as punishment
>except one guy
>(and his family)
>make a boat
>and put two of every animal in it
>after everyone else is dead
>the waters recede
That myth is ONLY found in areas influenced by its originators, the Sumerians. The Chinese myth does NOT follow this pattern. The Welsh myth does NOT follow this pattern. The Finnish myth does NOT follow this pattern. The Hindu myth does NOT follow this pattern. The numerous American myths do NOT follow this pattern. For fuck's sake, the Chinese myth is only one single river, and it overruns multiple times. The Finnish and American myths involve the world starting out covered in water.

>>16990822
God is somewhat prohibited by our own freedom since he denied some of his own freedom in order for us to exist. This makes God have to get creative in what he means by what he says. How much room would you have to work with if you were talking to a schizo with a fetish to cut off his dick skin?

a progressive revelation of God in this world seems pretty clear in things like the jew stuff and hindu stuff. Now with our modern age i can easily think of a God who is superior in many ways to a God of a humanity that was constantly worrying about lack of food and tribal conquering. There is still plenty of goodness that can be derived from the Bible though. the rule is that if I can't get something good out of it then I don't understand it. If you don't want to read the Bible then don't read it. For some reason most people are literalist and pretty dumb when it comes to understanding God.

>>16991505
Are you referencing Loki? The "bad guy"? The one that the Medieval Christian concept of "the Devil" is rooted in? The guy that ancient pagans didn't worship? The one that they mocked and derided and setup all sorts of apotropaic rituals to shoo away? The guy who is basically in charge of immorality?

>>16991495
he was listing them because they're only conveniently labelled 'flood myth' and in fact are nothing like the the mid east flood myth.

>>16991483
>>16991495
>>16991256

We can extrapolate a multitude of stories from the "land and sea" mythos. Tweaked and contorted to appear ubiquitous though each slightly different. We can always land, by some form of reasoning and association, at the same morals. What's the big deal? The "world" was very small to each culture. The "horizon" was literally the end of knowledge and didn't carry over into spherical cohesion until Eratosthenes but probably the Ionians and still, probably before in some mystic glimpses. A "world" consuming flood would be a puddle spilling into a town. That isn't interesting. You have to keep perspective, and by that, I mean you have to reduce your perspective. All ancient stories are exaggerated claims of science, I mean, of course they are! Genisis: "In the beginning there was light!", Quantum physician "In the beginning there was light.. from some fluctuations!" The larger stories are still out of our reasoning... But a fucking flood? With seawater? Come on.

>>16991483
>No, they don't. "Flood Myths" only exist in cultures derived from the Sumerians
Some Native Americans have flood stories too.

>>16991508
Some Native American flood stories have them having a bunch of canoes bound together and they check with a Raven or crow instead of a dove. I wonder if they changed their story when Christianity started to influence them.

>>16991508
Genesis doesn't assert that the entire earth was flooded but even if it did who gives a shit? Having differences doesn't make it any less of a flood myth.

>>16991508
I’m not well versed in norse pagan mythology that Christians were kind enough to write down. Who said the pagans didn’t worship Loki? Just because Christians who wrote down the mythology derided him doesn’t mean Norse pagans did so as well.

This is how anti-Christians behave when it comes to the bible

> Bible mentions in one account close family incest (Lot and his daughters), but is after explicitly prohibited in Leviticus and Deuteronomy and even punishable by death.
> anti-christian be like ‘wow the bible is so degenerate. It has incest in it.’
> Greek mythology where Zeus and many gods engage in incest
> anti-Christians be like ‘wow Greek mythology is so beautiful and everyone should worship these gods.’

>>16990822
why the fuck do comics have that annoying habit of HIGHLIGHTING random WORDS even if the WORDS don't really seem to NEED to be EMPHASIZED.

Like what the fuck.

>>16991553
Probably. There's a lot of things like that in Europe. The Irish have a myth about one of Noah's children swimming over to Ireland and populating it with his giant children.

>>16991598
Did you mean to respond to >>16991512? I'm not >>16991508, and his post has nothing to do with Loki or Germanic religion. There's no evidence to suggest Loki was anything but bad. Runestones relate the events that Snorri's Edda tells us, so it's not like he just made this shit up. Loki causes nothing but trouble, ends up dying like an idiot, and makes monsters via sexual degeneracy. The Norse were super fucking uptight about what was and was not sexually appropriate, so this bit is more of a sticker for them than it was for us.

That's in both Eddas alone. Even ignoring Snorri's Edda (there are two Eddas, Snorri only wrote down one), every single piece of evidence we have regarding Loki puts him in a bad light. There is no evidence that he was ever worshiped. Ever. There's plenty of evidence that practices that would go on to become apotropaic (meant to ward off) to the devil originate in the treatment of Loki. People would carve his face into rocks and then put them under the threshold of their floor so that every time you entered the home, you'd step on his face. A similar practice was done with fireplaces (his face would be put on a large rock that would form the bottom of the fireplace, as a sign of disrespect).

>>16991443
>yahweh is part of the canaanite pantheon
Anon, I...

>>16991581
Yes it does. Explicitly. The entire claim is that all of the world secretly accepts the Jewish narrative, as the Jews are God's Chosen People, so they are correct.

This is simply wrong. Ignoring the fact that there are huge swathes of the world without flood myths, the simple fact that not everyone agrees on the very nature of the flood and its consequences, and how it was survived, is a direct rejection of the Rabbinical narrative.

>>16991124
Based and truthpilled

>>16991841
Have a look at the actual Hebrew. The world often translated as "worldwide" is eretz, but this word doesn't necessarily mean worldwide. In fact it's used elsewhere in the same book to mean "large localized area" or the immediate region. The Jews being the "chosen people" have nothing to do with this and it certainly doesn't contradict the notion that the flood was not worldwide. That's not even close to a rational inference.

The same with the fact that some cultures don't have flood myths. Therefore what? Some cultures don't worship God but this isn't evidence that doesn't exist. Some cultures don't recognize that Julius Caesar crossed the Rubicon, this isn't evidence that it didn't happen. You're making an argument from silence and it's a fallacy.

>>16991877
Jewish and Christian tradition holds it as being worldwide. This is because the entire narrative is Yahweh's displeasure with man. All of man, not just localized to one area. Which is really secondary, as YOU believe that it is worldwide, hence your argument in >>16991471 and >>16991256. If the flood isn't global, why do you argue that it is? Why not correct the ignorance of those Christians who would say otherwise? Because you're doing a motte and bailey by quibbling over a single word in translation.

>>16991877
>The Jews being the "chosen people" have nothing to do with this
yes it does. it is the entire reason that the jewish telling is priveleged over, say, the sumerian telling. why do we trust the jews in the latest edition of their book, rewritten for political expediency in 200BC, when the sumerians are offering their account in 4000BC? why would we believe that the sumerians got it from the jews, and not the other way around?

because jews are innately special. if you reject this, then you reject the historical and moral authority of the torah, at which point it all goes right out the window. if the jews do not have some special access to knowledge then how do we even know that genesis happened at all, or that there arent multiple gods?

>>16991908
His post also ignores that Judaeo-Christian tradition holds that all peoples are descended from Noah. It's the entire reason why Semites are "Semites" at all, because they're (supposedly) descended from Shem.

>>16991452
The Mesopotamian valley region did have a massive flood, which scientists have only recently discovered. It is possible that some flood myths developed independently from seperate deluges, but I suspect most flood myths originate from early humans living in Mesopotamia, with the mythology being carried abroad as humans continued emmigrating across the globe.

>>16991908
Many people interpret it that way, sure but that doesn't mean shit. The Catholic and Orthodox churches have not ruled on it so it's open to interpretation. My interpretation is based on linguistic and geological evidence and not what some idiot Baptist has to say on it.

At no point do any of those posts suppose a worldwide flood. It really is difficult to talk to you people because you're such bad thinkers.

>>16991955
the church where most people get their Christianity from changed its stance on many issues. You really think the average Christian tries to understand what the Bible actually tells them?
>you people are bad thinkers
Not him but you're the one coming off as a brainler here

>>16992013
Yeah I'm the brainler

>>16991955
>my opinion, contradicting 2,000 years of Christian tradition, is the right one because of my specific interpretation of an English word that is just a translation of a Hebrew word
Well then we can just discard your interpretation entirely then.

>>16992028
We're talking about a lower case T tradition. For thousands of years Christians thought the earth was the center of the universe. That was a lower case T tradition, and it doesn't mean shit. It's not an argument.

>>16992028
Christians in the past believe that Jesus Christ resurrected himself from the dead. Does that belief alone make it true?

>>16992027

You have to be high IQ like Isaac Newton in order to truly appreciate the bible.

>>16990822
This is the most retarded shit I've ever read.

>>16992074
Not only Isaac Newton, but Robert Boyle and James Clerk Maxwell as well.

> “The conversation turned on Darwinian evolution: I can’t say how it came about, but I spoke disrespectfully of Noah’s flood. Clerk Maxwell was instantly aroused to the highest pitch of anger, reproving me for want of faith in the bible. I had no idea at the time that he had retained the rigid faith of his childhood, and was, if possible, a firmer believer than Gladstone in the accuracy of Genesis.” - Karl Pearson

Low IQ men simply see Jew stories when reading the bible, but high IQ men like Isaac Newton and Clerk Maxwell see something more.

>>16990822
>>16990822
Based, I am having the same experience. However allow some reflection on the imagery and structure, which imo is uniquely powerful in the bible. Recurrence of offerings, lambs and snakes all carry purpose, for instance note that in Leviticus the ritual of the scape goat is exactly half way in a perfectly symmetric chapter. This highlights the central theme of cleansing by banishment.

While the narrative is abhorrent, image and structure wise it has merit. Try to understand why in spite of all its slimely, greedy, materialistic torture it overcame (and destroyed) all alternatives. At least that is what I try to do. Ofcourse political violence plays a role, but nothing is built on violence alone.

I have also learnt to disregard the walls of text from christian fundementalists here. They are disconnected from any possible common ground and I believe they are desperately trying to convince themselves instead of the other.

the christcucks on this board are really, really annoying
used to be no christcucks on 4chan
christcuckism is similar to leftism in that it rejects logic yet still blathers on and on about stupid shit base on a stupid premise. stupid

>>16992069
There was no argument to respond to.

>>16992312
Hah, christcucks. That's a good one. You took half of their name and then you combined it with the word cuck. That is some clever shit.

>>16992340
ur a cuck

>>16992340
But its true. Even in the face of overwhelming evidence christcucks deny facts

>>16992340
>Hah, christcucks. That's a good one. You took half of their name and then you combined it with the word cuck. That is some clever shit.

>stuff taken from
Fallacious.
>Why in the fuck am I supposed to just disregard my cunt's exact story of the "Great Flood" and accept Noah's as the "true" one?
Accept whatever the fuck you want, but if you disregard the beginning of the story of the Bible, you disregard the whole thing.
>I see no reason why such a God would be worshipped
Damn, almost like you would only worship someone with your own morals and your own values. God should be a 20yo schizoid.

Cope.

>>16990822
>get past the heeb folklore
>get to the new testament
>realize multiple witnesses refused to recant their testimony of Jesus's life and miracles even as they were being tortured to death, and this is backed up by written documentation

>>16992393
>all written centuries after the deaths of the supposed individuals and subjected to editing

>>16992398
What editing? Can you point out which parts are edited? Or did you just disregard oral tradition in an oral-based culture just because it was convenient? Maybe you could also pretend the early Biblical manuscripts differ extremely from the later ones... that would indeed be convenient for the "they made stuff up tho" hypothesis.

>>16992393
>no really guys L. Ron Hubbard talked to aliums, it says so in this book!
Uh huh.

>>16992379
Based

>>16992416
>there are christcucks on 4chan who think paul wrote all the paul epistles

>>16992448
>having that video saved

>>16992471
>>having that video saved

>>16992364
>>16992365
>>16992379
>>16992437
seething paganlarpers lmao. Your ancestors were cucks accept it, they were eternally subjugated by christians.

>>16992534
>worship a jew born from cuckoldry as god
>"y-youre the cuck!"

>>16992547
cuckoldry is tradition among pagan gods. Keep coping subhuman.

>>16992534
>>16992553
t.seething christcuck. Why would you think we're pagan?

>>16992553
kek, i don't worship cucks, telling how you don't even deny worshipping a cuck god
let me guess, you're named after a jew and you're circumcised?

>>16992567
only pagans seethe these hard about christian, because pagans are eternally cucked.
>>16992569
how is christian god cuck? Christians are not circumcised subhuman. Keep worshipping your crossdressing tranny gods who cuck each other lmao.

>>16992587
>yes, i worship a jew born from cucking... but you worship a tranny cuck god!
you christcucks sure love to play pretend
tell me, what tranny god do i worship?

>>16992609
shapeshifting tranny gods faggot. You only despise christianity because Jesus was a jew. That's how your simplistic mind works. You will deepthroat zeus and suck ares' dick subhuman.

>>16992129
>but high IQ men like Isaac Newton and Clerk Maxwell see something more.
And what is that "something more"?

>>16992623
>shapeshifting tranny gods faggot
hmm, i dont worship any gods, especially not those
>You only despise christianity because Jesus was a jew. That's how your simplistic mind works.
oh yea? give me your big brain reason for worshipping a virgin jew cuck-baby

What is more likely; that the whole natural order is suspended, or that a jewish whore should tell a lie?

>>16991124
Cringe and Vargpilled.

>>16993083
>yeah bro the miracles and apostolic testimony of miracles even under countless torments is completely meaningless and irrelevant because dude MARY WHORE lmaooo dude ROMAN RAPEBABY
I am sick to death of you people.

>>16993132
>jews say god came down and said they're special and we should all worship jews
wow! a miracle!
>indoaryans say the universal reality speaks to you if you reach out to it, and that our separation from divinity is an illusion
hah, what a fairy tale! anyways, tell me again how jesus chased demons out of pigs? this is the sort of story i need to live my life by

>>16993132
Good. Hope we're bullying you from our board cucklord

>>16993158
Amazing- you know nothing about Indo-Aryan / Vedic faith, and you know nothing about Christianity, either. Your life is lived in frankly embarrassing pursuit of whatever belief system possesses the transient label of "most based."

>>16990822

It works by faith, not by your own knowledge. Ask God if you want to know.

Isa 55:8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, declares the LORD.
Isa 55:9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts.

Yeah lol I can totally see that happening

>>16993193
>lmao believe and don't seek
Wtf, I'm a blind follower now and will adjust my life according to this worldview?!

>>16993192
i know more about both vedism, indian medicant belief, and hinduism, than you
also christcuckery
probably why i don't worship jews like you do

>>16993276
Scripture promises that God will reveal Himself to those who seek Him and his righteousness.

>>16993276
Many, including me, have sought and found and so can you.

>>16993281
And yet you write like a teen atheist, and have displayed no knowledge of Vedic faith outside of a single platitude often expressed by "spiritual but not religious" eGirls.

>>16993331
You sought surety and found it in delusion. Well done. Some of us are men, and prefer reality.

>>16993332
>And yet you write like a teen atheist, and have displayed no knowledge of Vedic faith outside of a single platitude often expressed by "spiritual but not religious" eGirls.
lmao, coming from the guy who thinks all the paul epistles were written by paul
make sure next time you try to do your christcuck trolling you dont start off on such a retarded foot

>>16992137
Based as fuck, one of the only good takes on this awful thread

>>16993319
Why your God and not the thousands others cooked up to soothe the anguish of Man? Why the unbelievable COINCIDENCE that it is exactly the God whom you were raised with that is also the right God? Why the same coincidence for mudslimes, buddhists, etc. There is no criteria for truth here, no demarcation between the false and the real, only the delusions of the faithful. Fuck off this board.

>>16993381
How can you possibly know/be qualified to comment on what/who I searched and found?

>>16993381
By your sentence structure I know for a sterling fact that if you'd come of age 5 years ago, instead of now, you'd have been posting on r/atheism.

>>16993416
I didn't say anything about the other faiths/religions. The OP was in relation the Christian Bible.

>>16993397
This is an anonymous board, my friend. You're thinking of someone else.

>>16990822
just keep reading
anything at this point
read as much as you can
sooner or later if your smart enough youll get it
i dont mean to say youll believe i mean to say that youll understand how the collective unconscious works and how it fits into the Bible
but yeah, youre really far from that, i hope youre 15 otherwise this is going to take into your 50s to get

>>16993421
My sentence structure is formed by the fact that I'm not anglo, but scandinavian.

>>16993435
quite possible, lets get acquainted shall we?
do you believe in the book of jonah?

>>16993476
Sure you are.

>>16992534
>your
so, what are you then? your ancestors were pagans too.

>>16993492
Sure. Why wouldn't I?

>>16993524
no reason, its a perfectly reasonable story after all
what about the book of daniel? do you think that was written before the prophesized events?

>>16993493
Det er ikke min skyld at du er en monolingual angelsakser min ven

>>16991147
The fall of atheism isn't the return of Christianity.

>>16993573
Your proposition assumes the events have already taken place
&
Do not also have a deeper symbolic interpretation

>>16991256
Flood myths exist among river dwelling cultures? No Fucking way!!!

>>16993691
Now let me really blow your mind
What if flood myths exist because a flood/floods happened?

Christians are mewling dogs unfit for life

>>16993678
>Your proposition assumes the events have already taken place
oh? how so? i only asked you if you think they took place after the book, this somehow assumes they didnt?

>>16993745
No, it assumes they did, i.e. have already taken place
In any event, I also want to point out that the book may be read and understood in a deeper symbolic way.

The bible is the greatest work of literature ever assembled

That being said, if you believe what’s in it literally you have a hole in your head

>>16993707
The Tigris and the Euphrates flooded regularly . Everyone knows this. Or you should...

>>16993780
S I think we've established that floods are, for want of a better expression, 'a thing'
Well done anon

Gods greatest gift to us was our brain. When you read the bible literally and take those folk tales as truth you are literally saying
>fuck you god. That beautiful brain you gave me ? I don’t need it.

>>16992754
you don't have to worship anyone paganlarper
>>16993512
they were not converted by the sword

>>16993804
In Egypt they were even a good thing everyone looked forward to.

>>16993804
Of course they are. Near east flood myths make perfect sense when you understand the historical context. The entire bible ONLY makes sense in historical context. If you don’t have a proper understanding of that area of the world and that era of time, you don’t understand the bible. No it’s not the world of god. It’s a historical document

>>16993175
you are getting bullied so far subhuman

>>16993669
it won't be return of paganlarpery either.

>>16993823
> No it’s not the world of god. It’s a historical document

It's 'history,' i.e. HIS STORY
Mike drop

>>16993770
oh ok, so the book of daniel is symbolic, but the book of jonah is literal?

>>16993845
No, to something more.

>>16993929
If you can understand the symbolic, that's wonderful (this is greater than the literal).
If you can't, see the literal and believe because of that.
Above is just my opinion btw.
I'll give an example: First three chapters of Genesis are SUPER symbolic and have an incredible amount of things going on. Modern translations and understandings often badly butcher this. 'Adam' does not refer to one single man, but mankind in general. Therefore Eve is also misunderstood, etc. If you desire a very superficial understanding of the book then you can read it with a cup of coffee on a rainy day and that's fine. But its a lifes work and study to truly delve the depths (or heights) of the book.

>>16993984
Simply put, God is a Poet

>>16993984
ah okay, so lets play a little game at this point
let's say I insist Adam was actually one guy, not mankind, how do you suppose to demonstrate you are right?

>>16993929
And lastly I should say this: The Bible can usually be personified. For example, Revelation (Apocalypto - which means unveiling) can be seen as a prophesy of future events OR
As the UNVEILING of YOUR IDENTITY IN GOD

>>16993984
Adam and Eve “as symbols” is an idea that makes it as far as the next page, when you hit a genealogy.

>>16994026
Like this:
(KJV translation)
Gen 5:1 This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;
Gen 5:2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.

>their name Adam

>>16994047
How so?

>>16994090
Because if Adam and eve are symbols then we can assume that every single character in the bible is a symbol too

>>16994110
We can go further and see every single thing in the Bible as symbolic. Names all have etymologies. For examples, Jesus' name means 'Saviour'/'Hero.' Christ means 'Anointed.'

>>16994163
That is true. Usually the names of places/characters are words that mean something else. To be clear I do think you should interpret the bible symbolically, and if you take it literally it should only be literal within the framework of the story.

>>16993814
oh, so you are a jew then.

>>16994066
ok, so at this point in the process my character is convinced that adam is indeed metaphor for mankind
now lets say i find myself saying "whats the point of genesis? adam isn't real, or even a man, genesis is a symbolic account of mankinds origin, why should i care about this story if it is no more true than any other myth or fiction?"

>>16994773
>Premise:
>adam isn't real, or even a man
>genesis is a symbolic account of mankinds origin
>Conclusion:
>this story is no more true than any other myth or fiction

With respect, the premise does not warrant the conclusion
.
In my view the TRUTH is often between the lines
"And the people bowed and prayed
To the neon god they made
And the sign flashed out its warning
In the words that it was forming
And the sign said, "The words of the prophets are written on the subway walls
And tenement halls"
And whispered in the sound of silence"

If you ascribe to the philosophy that's there's more to life, then the TRUTH is the OTHER REALM, not THIS REALM.

>>16994883
I apologize if that answer is a bit artsy and pretentious. Having said that, I'm going to follow it up with more of the same:

"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly"

Have you considered that maybe this is the Realm of Confusion (Physical/Animus/Babel) and the other realm (Spiritual/Anima/Bethel) is the Realm of Clarity?

>>16994773
Like >>16994883 said, it's fallacious to assume that all accounts are equally (in)valid when they are expressed in the mythological literary genre.

>>16990822
ywnbaw

>>16994110
>>16994163
Pretty much all in the Bible have a symbolic meaning. Sometimes in addition to a literal meaning.

>>16994883
>With respect, the premise does not warrant the conclusion
no, but it isnt in conflict with it either, it is one of the natural conclusions we tend to see people have, and absolutely this form of doubt is one of the common ones given by former believers, so its important

>If you ascribe to the philosophy that's there's more to life, then the TRUTH is the OTHER
>>16994939
>Have you considered that maybe this is the Realm of Confusion (Physical/Animus/Babel) and the other realm (Spiritual/Anima/Bethel) is the Realm of Clarity? REALM, not THIS REALM.

i think the obvious question would be: other realm? what other realm, i dont know of any other realm?

>>16994965
it is not fallacious, it is underdetermined and ambiguous... but the fact remains, we've abandoned the idea of there being a correspondence to a shared "objective" reality to evaluate statements
validity has morphed into something bordering on aesthetic preference, or maybe psychological utility, but the truth-drive is rarely satisfied with these substitutes

>>16995057
>What other Realm

Right, that's a fair question
It's a tough one to explain
I'm going to let my Homeboy start off the discussion (because I'm not sure how to):
Joh 3:8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

I realize that for someone who has never experienced it, it is hard to understand.
Maybe it'll help if you start by not looking at it as a time or place (it isn't after all) or necessarily even as another plane of existence (although perhaps that's closer the mark).
Maybe look at it this way:
You know when you dream something, it doesn't make literal sense but the dream bothers you, you contemplate the dream, you realize that the dream was telling you some deeper truth in its own way. Or the difference between having experiential knowledge of something as opposed to merely theoretical knowledge?
To me the Spiritual Realm is much like that.

>>16995170
so then this is the termination point i suppose
>I realize that for someone who has never experienced it, it is hard to understand.
>Or the difference between having experiential knowledge of something as opposed to merely theoretical knowledge?
an absolute and subjective "confirmation" that rests in some way in internal experience and cannot be reliably shared
to get back to the heart of this issue, if my character says they know exactly what you're talking about, but it has led them to advaita vedanta, in what sense can you refute that? dismissal of their subjective experience of the 'other realm'?

Imagine hating jews while unironically worshipping one. I’d just kill myself

>>16995274
I'm finding it difficult to understand exactly what you're staying. Can you restate?

>>16995318
sure
lets say i know exactly what you are alluding to, this other realm of experience/knowledge
but my conclusions are not shared with you, e.g. you have some mainstream christian belief and i have some advaita vedanta-like belief
how do you account for this? that is, why is there a diversity of beliefs among those who claim what you're claiming?

>>16995343
Thanks.
Honestly, I don't know. It's one of many spiritual mysteries/enigmas. I have some ideas on the subject though.
Take the example of dreams again:
Someone from the East might be hungry for noodles in a broth with squid topped with egg. The deeper truth behind that might be that this person yearns for spiritual nourishment.
I might dream about steak and chips.
To each his own.
Everybody has their own journey but there is only one path.

>>16995343
Come to think of it, the deeper truths behind all these beliefs are actually remarkably similar.

>>16995403
A computer programmer might dream 'in code' while a lawyer might dream 'in acts, sections and paragraphs' and a farmer might dream 'in vineyards and plows'

>>16991124
t. Nietzschetard

>>16992711
A divine truth.

>>16995422
yep, there is something interesting for sure about the ubiquitous emergence of monism/pantheism beliefs (perennial philosophy, blah blah), but there are always major differences as well
i dont know where your belief lies in christianity, for all i know you're going to say you have some esoteric panentheism beliefs and deny a hell, or whatever
an easy one here since genesis came up, would be squaring the creation narrative with something like the jainist eternal universe independent of creation

>>16992312
>christcuckism is similar to leftism in that it rejects logic yet still blathers on and on about stupid shit base on a stupid premise. stupid
Wow you sound like a retard nigger midwit.

>>16993772
>The bible is the greatest work of literature ever assembled
>That being said, if you believe what’s in it literally you have a hole in your head
Why do atheists think they're being clever when they give superficial praise to the Bible then deny it's apparent quality that resonates with readers?

>>16990822
>>it's basically stuff taken from every mythology but put through a joo lens
You didn't read the bible if this is the conclusion you came to. Christianity is theology combined with metaphysics, it is not merely "jew filtered mythology" like your teenager-who-never-read-plotinus ass thinks.

>>16995480
>but there are always major differences as well
Are there?

>i dont know where your belief lies in christianity
I don't reject any denomination, all Christians are Christians.
I like the work of Meister Eckhart, Jacob Bohme, Angelus Selesius and Johann Wolfgang von Goethe (although Im not German).
So maybe Ill describe myself as a mystic Christian to the outside world, even though thats also not really what I am.

>>16995449
I forgot to add one thing. The important thing is that you don't neglect dreaming (meaning don't neglect the Spirit).
"The problem isn't growing up, the problem is forgetting"

>>16990822
t. didn't understand Neoplatonism
t. didn't understand the Hellenic influences
t. didn't understand Jesus Christ
t. types like an Encyclopedia Dramatica reading autist and regurgitates talking points that have been refuted multiple times

>>16995585

>>16995600
Cope, retard.

The literal and typological precedes the allegorical, nor does the allegorical ever deny the literal—at least according to Orthodoxy and Catholicism, which are the only legit ways of reading the Bible, which further shows how it's all incoherent.
Christian Hermeticism and Protestantism are not viable alternatives, they're self refuting. To posit the self above tradition is pride, and the Christian traditions make the Bible silly and unbelievable, thus Christianity is to be forsaken. Otherwise we'd either have to discard morality on one hand or intelligence on the other.

>>16995886
>Orthodoxy and Catholicism, which are the only legit ways of reading the Bible

No. Just no.

>>16995886
>Christian Hermeticism and Protestantism are not viable alternatives, they're self refuting

In that...? And what about all the other denominations? Wanna run through them too?

>>16995886
>To posit the self above tradition is pride
To posit the self above most things is pride

>and the Christian traditions make the Bible silly and unbelievable
Dont let other peoples actions influence your thinking and beliefs so much

>>16995915
deboonk this, prot loser

>>16995955
Cool, and?

>>16996002
so you agree that mary is the ark of the new covenant?

>>16996045
She could be.
You pointed out some deftly spotted similarities there fren.
More interesting to me is the deeper symbolism behind both the Ark and Mary.