/lit/ - Literature

>>16962259
Thesis... antithesis... why not synthesis?

>>16962259
Neither. The ideal ruler should be a theocrat, philosopher, judge and warrior

Both. Philosopher king is the proper choice.

>>16962754
This. Once again, Plato was right about everything

>>16962259
>>16962269
>>16962288
>>16962737
>>16962754
>>16962774
>cannot accept the abstract rule of Capital is the endpoint of history and will increase human satisfaction evermore till its aboltion

>>16962259
They were both right but it doesn’t matter. You’d know that if you read much of either.

Based self-loathing Jew thread.

>>16962827
/thread

>>16962774
unfathomably based

>>16962827
Based

>>16962827
>capital
>increase human satisfaction

>>16962900

>>16962259
This is a mischaracterization of Evola’s position. The ideal ruler for him combined the offices of both warrior and priest (sovereign pontiff), as opposed to the feminized priest, devoid of virile substance, of the silver age and and the titanic warrior, lacking spiritual insight, of the Bronze Age. In other words, yes, a kind of philosopher king. Evola was right as the kings of archaic Greece and other Mediterranean and Near Eastern civilizations were also the heads of the religion.

>>16963288
Based calloused penis tip rage.

>>16963310
I think you misunderstand. He specifically said he believed the military housed Tradition to a greater degree than even the Church and a ruler would have to be born and bred of a military caste (I.e serve in the military).

>>16963335
Where did he say that? AFAIK this >>16963310 anon is correct, this is the first I hear about a military bias. Are you sure he's not referring to the specific, modern western context? If so, yes, he did believe that the warrior aristocracy retained more traditional elements than Christian clergy.

>>16962827
first your faux communist gibberish is incoherent and shows you're not well versed on the works of marx. second the traditionalist doctrine is antinomic to dialectical materialism only on one claim, the presupposed immanent properties of capital. if you had read any of these authors you could easily see this, but you're unintelligent, as much as the mistaken reactionnaries hanging onto traditionalism.

>>16963335
I think you misunderstood what I wrote, as what you said does not contradict it. Sovereignty (kshatra) naturally belongs to the Kshatriya varna. Only the king should — in addition to kingship — hold the office of priest, specifically the head of the religion, thus sovereign pontiff (sovereign = king, pontiff = literally bridge maker, priest).

>>16962259
dw bruv, De Benoist explains the right position in this essay. he surveys both their views and finds them wanting;

REJECT THE EVOLA-GUENON FALSE DIALECTIC!

EMBRACE COOOOOOOOOMASWARMY!


As Devi would point out:
> the warrior king (timocracy) is simply /in time/
not a true opposition to modernity - satanic
> the priestly rule (aristocracy) is simply /above time/
again, not a true opposition to modernity - apathetic
> the union of the priestly and monarchial rule is best
it is metaphysical and physical. it is mitra-varuna becoming one. it is apollonian and dionysian. it retains golden ideals, eternal and static values from the timeless absolute ---- while also having the material will and power to enforce those eternal ideals on the heraclitian world of flux. we must rage aginst the dying of the light, just like Hitler did. we are not in or above time; we are /AGAINST TIME/


https://counter-currents.com/2012/11/spiritual-authority-and-temporal-power/

>>16964599

>>16962259
Both, we should elect a president through an electoral college.

>>16964599
Based and Man Against Time-pilled. Praise Hail he who is both Sun and Lightning, the Late-Born Child of Light, Adolf Hitler. (pbuh)

>>16964599
Based. Was gonna post it too.

>>16964760
>>16964798
Epic stuff. I'm always worried fellow Devi-pilled frens are going to be schizos and feds but I met one recently and he's absolutely sound, as yous seem. We will prevail lads, have faith.

"Respect the man of noble races other than your own, who carries out, in a different place, a combat parallel to yours -- to ours. He is your ally. He is our ally, be he at the other end of the world.
Love all living things whose humble task is not opposed in any way to yours, to ours: men with simple hearts, honest, without vanity and malice, and all the animals, because they are beautiful, without exception and without exception indifferent to whatever "idea" there may be. Love them, and you will see the eternal in the glance of their eyes of jet, amber, or emerald. Love also the trees, the plants, the water that runs though the meadow and on to the sea without knowing where it goes; love the mountain, the desert, the forest, the immense sky, full of light or full of clouds; because all these exceed man and reveal the eternal to you."

ONE STRUGGLE AGAINST TIME!

>>16964599
basado

>>16964599
>>16964609
Based and spiritual/warrior/philosopher king pilled

>>16962259
>Eastern doctrines, and also ancient Western doctrines, are unanimous in affirming that contemplation is superior to action, just as the unchanging is superior to change. Action, being only a transitory and momentary modification of being, cannot have in itself its principle and its sufficient reason; if it does not relate to a principle which is beyond its contingent domain, it is only a pure illusion; and this principle from which it derives all the reality to which it is susceptible, and its very existence and possibility, cannot be found
than in contemplation or, if one prefers, in knowledge, because, basically, these two terms are synonymous, or at least coincide, since knowledge itself and the operation by which it is attained can in no way be separated. In the same way, change, in its most general sense, is unintelligible and contradictory, that is to say impossible, without a principle from which it proceeds and which, because it is its principle, cannot be subjected to it, and is therefore necessarily immutable; and this is why, in Western antiquity, Aristotle had affirmed the necessity of the "motionless motor" of all things. Knowledge plays this role of "immobile motor" precisely in relation to action; it is obvious that the latter belongs entirely to the world of change, of "becoming"; knowledge alone makes it possible to get out of this world and its inherent limitations, and, when it reaches the immutable, which is the case of princely or metaphysical knowledge, which is knowledge par excellence, it itself possesses immutability, because all true knowledge is essentially identification with its object. This is precisely what is ignored by modern Westerners, who, in fact of knowledge, only consider rational and discursive knowledge, therefore indirect and imperfect, what we could call knowledge by reflection, and who even, more and more, appreciate this inferior knowledge only insofar as it can be used immediately for practical purposes ; engaged in action to the point of denying all that is beyond it, they do not realize that this very action thus degenerates, by lack of principle, into an agitation as vain as it is sterile.
- Guénon, personal translation

>>16964599
>REJECT THE EVOLA-GUENON FALSE DIALECTIC!
Bro guenon says the same thing

Why do half the posters itt engage with guénon if they lack the intelligence to comprehend his works?

>>16962774
Even the little boy sex and eugenics part?

>>16963377
I'm not a Marxist and wasn't alluding to Marx anymore than by alluding to the inherent drive towards value accumulation in Capitalism. Marx obviously didn't think this overall increased human satisfaction as he considered the necessity of mass unemployement, law of the tendency of the rate of profit to tall, and catastrophic crisis, you dimwit. So obviously I wasn't trying to render Marx in a sentence, I was making a joke.
It doesn't take a genius to guess traditionalists are opposed to "dialectical materialist", it doesn't mean they're right. Dialectical materialism isn't "the presupposed immanent properties of capital". It's an ontology of matter as timely and non-mecanistic, read anti-Duhring.
You are both retarded and arrogant, the worst combination.

>>16967640
everything

>>16967640
>little boy sex
Where was plato for this anywhere?

>>16962827
>will increase human satisfaction
Addiction*

>>16962259

Read both but read Guenon first

>>16968902
This

>>16962259
Genuine traditional king is not a warrior-priest, but a farmer-trader, this makes the Dutch the most traditional people.

>>16968902
Yes. Evola is fantastic, but Guenon is necessary to understand Tradition vs. Modernity, to make you ready for Evola

>>16969071

>>16969071
>>16969130
This is actually a lot more diplomatic than I remember it being, I thought he'd called the Dutch and Scandis racially degenerate but in fact he seems to only believe their inner light has "dimmed" with the implication being obvious that the spark can be lighted again. Thanks for making me revisit this passage, anon - now I can have a more balanced opinion again.

>>16962827
>and will increase human satisfaction evermore till its aboltion
And you think this is a good thing!

>>16969130
>>16969162

Arent the Dutch and example of a pure race, since they clearly represent the type of the farmer-trader to an excellent ideal, while many other races like for example the Italians that Evola belongs too are far more formless.

>>16967647
>I'm not a Marxist I just regurgitate Marxist axioms
pfft hahahaha

>>16969182
Are you familiar with Evola's theory of the regression of the castes? Shudras (labourers) and Vaishyas (traders) occupy the lower and distinctly material half of the hierarchy. In other words, Evola's criticism of the Dutch and Scandinavians boils down to the fact that they have lost their internal tension - their most advanced elements bestowed with genuinely transcendent character have been defeated and subsumed by elements interested solely in matter, wealth and the profane. The idea of "agrarian", "merchant" and "warrior" races belongs to other racialists - to Evola, all Indo-Aryans belong to a spiritually "solar" race characterised by its unparalleled capacity for transcendence and loyalty to spiritual values over material factors. The sacred warrior king is the peak of the Indo-Aryan hierarchy, so from Evola's perspective the Dutch have degenerated from their ancients standards, rather than having carved out a niche for themselves as some more materialist racialists would claim.

>>16967662
Half of his work is interspersed with homoerotic undertones, his dialogues can be boiled down to Socrates haranguing some poor sexy boy he has taken to grooming for the next four hours

>>16962259
i've never read guenon, where should i start

>>16969242
Oh yeah, makes perfect sense, farmers are constructive, creating food and goods, traders generate wealth, on the other hand the priestly class leaches off society and the warrior caste just acts like a bunch of niggers.

Somehow, in your fantasy world, the values are reversed.....

It makes more sense to think of a farmer-trader elite in the neolithic, building Stone Henge and other ancient sites and then being whiped out by a bunch of insane warlords and religious fanatics from the Iranian steppe.

>>16969315
He has a work which is a few pages long called 'Oriental Metaphysics' summarising broadly his views

>>16969317
>Oh yeah, makes perfect sense, farmers are constructive, creating food and goods, traders generate wealth, on the other hand the priestly class leaches off society and the warrior caste just acts like a bunch of niggers.
This is your brain on modernity.

>>16967640
especially the eugenics part

>>16969353
>This is your brain on modernity.
wow great argument, please tell me how giving power to the nonproductive and destructive groups like warriors and priests is going to improve society.

Yeah, the Dutch are going to become so much better abandoning hard work, their large trading hub in Rotterdam and their highly productive farms for rape and pillage and also meditating naked in the woods.

Yeah, a real improvement.....

>>16969384
>muh trade and productivity
Long way to go

>>16969397
>Long way to go
Argument, do you have it?

>>16969384
>please tell me how giving power to the nonproductive and destructive groups like warriors and priests is going to improve society.
There is zero doubt in mind you fundamentally misunderstand the argument at hand here, that you only have vague superficial ideas of what a Priest and Warrior caste represent respectively, hence your ridiculous glorification of proles and the bourgeois.

>>16969426
>There is zero doubt in mind you fundamentally misunderstand the argument at hand here, that you only have vague superficial ideas of what a Priest and Warrior caste represent respectively, hence your ridiculous glorification of proles and the bourgeois.
The explain, dont belittle like a slave, explain.

The Dutch are wealth and powerful, primarily because they are good at trade, production, farming and transportation.

This was true in the Middle Ages, during the Golden Age and is still the source of its wealth, what would a warrior/priestly class improve?

Go ahead, explain in a way that is concrete and sensible.

>>16962259
perennialism gay

>>16969317
>on the other hand the priestly class leaches off society
The job of the priestly caste is to establish and maintain a stable direction within society towards the transcendent and the superior.
>and the warrior caste just acts like a bunch of niggers.
Similarly, the job of the warrior caste is to protect and defend the order established by the priests. The priestly caste sacrifices its worldly ambition on the altar of the sacred, whereas the warrior caste sacrifices its life and blood for the sake of the sacred. That's heroism. All this requires a clear-minded and austere disposition, completely unlike random destructive chaos.
I won't deny that some people assign huge value on material factors like wealth, comfort etc. However, if these are your priorities, you have little to complain about liberal democracy, since conformism, "freedom", as well as bread and circuses are its foundational principles.
>>16969315
I am currently reading the first half of "Introduction to the Hindu doctrines". That's what was recommended to me. It's pretty good.
>>16969182
BTW anon I forgot to tell you, in case you are interested in Evola's opinion on Italians, he did consider Italy a very troubled nation in many ways. The Risorgimento was a liberal-bourgeois project, so the basis of the Italian state is already suspect. The "Latin" or "Mediterranean" character of Italian people is another thing Evola disliked - he compared it negatively with what he considered the positive, authentic Roman culture of the ancient Italians. You can read more about this in "Men Among the Ruins" and if I recall correctly, in "Revolt against the modern world", also.
>>16969438
Looking at things from the Traditionalist perspective, he Dutch were historically successful because of their assertive and creative character, not because of trade or production. The Western states are very wealthy even today, but we are all slaves to our wealth - bankers, corporate suits and all sorts of vaishyas govern our civilisation for private gain. Every element of life is reduced to the principle of making money - culture, art, diplomacy, entertainment, etc etc. In an authentic and traditional civilisation, the priestly and warrior caste stamp a certain independent, spiritual character onto the state and control processes such as trade for the greater good of the civilisation and its values, rather than for the sake of private gain. A traditional upper class makes all the difference between a civilisation that has wealth and a civilisation that is captive to wealth.
>>16969486
Begone cathboy.

>>16969866
Excellent post

>>16969899
I love that chart, I should probably save it someday lol.

>>16969866
>he Dutch were historically successful because of their assertive and creative character, not because of trade or production.
Thats literally the same thing, you just word it differently to save your leftwing ideology.

>Every element of life is reduced to the principle of making money
It literally is not, if that where the case we would still have colonialism, the error of this age is that morality and not money rules.

You people keep repeating things you think are true, but literally are not, we are being destroyed because priestly interests (the left) instaid of those of money and production control our society.

The goal of traditionalism is simple, promote the priestly so we become weaker is technology, science and economy, promote the warrior ethics to create strive between European nations and both in order to make us less productive.

Traditionalism is designed to weaken the European nations by making them move away from science, technology and economic expansion, towards mystical introspection, rejection of work and brother wars.

Kshatryia-Brahmin alliance against the managerial chaste that was born from the belly and lives in a world of fear and false austerity

This is why we dont waste time with /pol/lack materialists still stuck in the left-right dichotomy

Evola liked non-european chicks.
Guenon wins.

>>16969110
What should I start with Geunon?

>>16970920
>>16969350

>>16970689
>Thats literally the same thing, you just word it differently to save your leftwing ideology.
>left wing ideology
Anon, I...
At any case, this is far more than a simple question of terminology. At best, we could say that it's reductionist to credit trade and production with the success of European peoples - trade and production are both derived from a higher capacity that Europeans have.
>It literally is not, if that where the case we would still have colonialism, the error of this age is that morality and not money rules.
Anon, consumerism is way more profitable than colonialism could ever be. Consumers can spend the type of money that colonised people can not. Hence, anti-colonialism. Sinple, really.
>You people keep repeating things you think are true, but literally are not, we are being destroyed because priestly interests (the left) instaid of those of money and production control our society.
This is unrepresentative of the school of thought we are discussing. There is nothing "left wing" about the priestly caste.
>The goal of traditionalism is simple, promote the priestly so we become weaker is technology, science and economy, promote the warrior ethics to create strive between European nations and both in order to make us less productive.
Priestly ethics do not mean ignorance and warrior ethics do not mean conflict. This is a left wing trope.
>Traditionalism is designed to weaken the European nations by making them move away from science, technology and economic expansion, towards mystical introspection, rejection of work and brother wars.
Science, technology and economic expansion won't give you a healthy and meaningful civilisation that believes in itself, anon.
>>16970836
For the last time, anon - Italians AREN'T black.

>>16967647
shit joke bruv

ITT
Idiots who think Guenon and Evola cared about religion rather than metaphysics

>>16972326
The two aren't exactly unrelated, anon.

>>16969315