/lit/ - Literature

>>16952363
First for zyzz
Also, what is the difference between dark fantasy and horror

>>16952363
Recommend me Fantasy books that fit with at least 2 of the three buzzwords.

Hi /sffg/

Recommend me Fantasy books that fit with at least 2 of the 3 buzzwords.

>>16952363
How many posts before the triggered one makes his appearance?

you guys are fucking terrible I'm going to reddit when i can have a discussion without idiots going on and on about whatever you niggers decide you want to be triggered by.
>Sanderson LOLOLOL MEME WRITER LET ME GO ON AND ON ABOUT HIM WHEN NO IS TALKING ABOUT HIM
>IS DUNE GOOD FOR 1000th time?
>LETS TALK ABOUT KINGKILLER FOR THE 100th time KEK KEK KEK
I hope you all kill yourselves

>>16952499
My upcoming fantasy book

>>16952625
That's an interesting post but I would like to know if the Dune sequels are worth reading. Thank you.

>>16952625
Thanks, Moash

>>16952630
Ir has such good prose I don't know what that mwans but i see anons circlejerk about prose enough i'f i say prose enough to so i can make it look like i know what the hell i'm talking about
>PROSE
>PROSE
>PROSE
>PROSE
See how sophisticated i am

>>16952499
Bakker

>>16952363
What is the difference between good worldbuilding and bad?

>>16952715
If its popular its bad.
if its not its good.

>>16952625
>tfw can't even talk about Who novels in here

Explain what you dislike about it.

Bros I need to write a really short science fiction story and it should describe the star system from earth, mainly astronomy stuff. Any ideas on how to portray the star system?

>>16952363
>a historical Christian people somehow travel to a low fantasy world and cut out a kingdom for theirselves
>they are helped by men who fit the descriptions of their old pagan gods and so half of them convert and half of them stick to christianity
Thoughts?

>>16952760
I'm a fragile white male who can't handle it when people who aren't my gender or skin color are the main characters. It's white genocide even though no one is forcing me to read it.

>>16952811
Also fuck niggers.

>>16952806
Cringe.

>>16952363
Should my Mahou Shoujo protagonist be alone or group up with some other sluts?

>>16952824
Got anything with a bit more substance retard?

>>16952480
BLACK CUM
KEKOLDS
INCEST

>>16952841
There should be others so that they can be mindbroken by monster rape while the protagonist can stay pure.

>>16952858
>Yes.

>>16952715
If it makes sense it's good.
If it makes zero sense and rely on everyone on the planet being fucking retarded it's bad.
So all dystopias and most sci-fi stories have bad worldbuilding

>>16952961
Can you give specific examples?

>>16952715
Do the fantasy/sci-fi elements affect the world in sensible ways?

Does the world feel like it has a history and didn't just spring up yesterday?

>>16952715
Bad world building usually works like this:
>nations and races each have a single defining culture
>lazy copy/paste jobs from real world cultures, religions, mythology, and history
>nonsensical mishmash of technologies and political structures
>world is huge, yet extremely empty, with absolutely nothing of note existing between the handful of major locations

Good world building can be inferred as the opposite of these things. In more concrete terms:
>lots of variation in local cultures within the same country feels more realistic and is more interesting than monoculture
>technology should be derived from available resources, and any shortcomings or advancements should have logical explanations, as well as well-thought-out consequences for how a society might develop given unique advantages or limitations
>social structures should have logical explanations similar to technologies, and if a system closely mirrors a real world political system, you should research it to make sure you understand how it actually worked, and what it's weak points and strengths were
>reminding the readers of distant locations and historical events makes the world feel deeper and older
>when writing a travel story where characters journey across the land, do stop to smell the roses and provide the reader with local color. Every place should have its own history and traditions. This makes the world feel ancient and lived-in.

>>16952715
worldbuilding that does not serve the story is bad, if it seems like the author has some kind of fetish for a thing or place it's probably bad.
see: rhythm of war's constant navani inventing fabrial chapters that nobody cares about or asked for and could've just been done off-screen.

>>16953213
So bad world building is exactly like the real world? Deep.

>>16952760
I don't dislike it though. There's stuff I enjoy and stuff I don't enjoy, just like every other era of fantasy. The current trend I'm not really fond of though is the endless parade of GRRM copycats and other coattail riders. You have the people who model their writing style and storytelling tone after him, with limited third person perspective following a handful of characters and "gritty" violence, swearing, and sex, only without any of the quality character writing behind it. Then you have the people who just shamelessly advertise their work as "Game of Thrones except with ________" and really it's just a really dull, trite political intrigue story with some ethnic flavoring or other gimmick. I'm hoping GRRM's influence dies down in the '20s.

>>16953213
Wrong on everything. People like you are stupid because you think you're smart yet you legitimately can't understand the purpose of races in fantasy in the first place.
Races exist precisely to embody one stereotype of existing humans. Of course, there should be factions within any race/nation, but expecting people of one race to be super different in one area than another goes against the very point of making it fantasy. If that's what you want, why not just use humans?
Same for your other comments like world is huge but empty or whatever. This is fantasy for a reason, it's not theory of possible worlds. People asking questions like
>Oh, well, could dwarves like in mountains? What kind of food would they eat if they lived in mountains?
And so on are the most autistic fucking individual I can think of that have completely mistaken the point of fantasy.
I've suffered from this and it is legitimately a disease.
>>16952715
Good worldbuilding should have three main things
>a recognizable metaplot
>mysteries surrounding that metaplot
>races that are woven into that metaplot
It is really that simple. What makes stuff like Tolkien's worldbuilding good (apart from his academic merits) is the fact that all the races and places tie back to the same grand narrative.
You can have one edgy race that is just mysterious or different from others (like Dwemer in TES), but having an entire world that consists of races with disconnected histories is boring as fuck.
Star Wars is also an example of incredible worldbuilding. Jedi vs Sith is an easy concept that you can either keep childishly simple or try to add as much depth as you can.
Warcraft is probably the best example of good do's and don'ts of worldbuilding. For example,
>Alliance vs Horde
Easy for any person to recognize and get an idea of what they're about. Even the names themselves make it obvious.
>Titans, Light, Shadow, Chaos, whatever the fuck else WoW has now
Fucking terrible. There are people that play WoW daily and read the quests and legitimately have no idea how any of these things interconnect. If your lore can't be distilled into a single page, don't even fucking bother, you've already failed.
Always think of the world you are creating as a character and as all the races, cultures, whatever, as offsprings.
If I could also add any tip it's do not do what the retard above suggested and try to make things complex. You are an idiot that knows nothing about most topics and you will fail to give any complexity. When things are simple and childlike, the smartest person can project into them and find their own motivation. But if you mistakenly try to explain everything in autistic detail you will take away their freedom to do so entirely. For example, it's very unlikely that a trained theologian would care about your shitty faux-theological debates.
In general, I'd advise avoiding gods and religion whenever possible.

>>16953342
You sound like an easily confused manchild.

>>16953362
You sound like your mom sucks nigger dick. So suck mine, faggot.

>>16953364
Go back to your video games, kid.

>>16953342
>video game and star wars examples
>only book example is Tolkien
>seriously thinks Tolkien, who constructed multiple languages and wrote reams of legends, lineages, and mythology that never featured in Lord of the Rings, is an example of his dumbed down version of world building for video games

>>16953342
Seriously what kind of brainlet writes a post this long and stupid and expects to be taken seriously? Do you even fucking read books? All you talk about is fucking video games.

>>16953364
Quinn, please

>>16953366
I'd guarantee I've read more books than you, lol. Which is why I know exactly how worldbuilding works, since it's no different than doing worldbuilding in a non-fantasy story.
Complexity is bad unless you're exceptionally gifted in one area. If you know a lot about economics and want to feature that into your story, sure, that would probably be great to people. But if you're some retarded 4chan poster talking about adding depth and realism when the chances are that you do not have a single PhD in any meaningful field, let alone the probably hundreds required to accomplish a feat like that, says everything.
If you think that races that follow one thing and act in a single way are "stupid" then you fundamentally don't understand fantasy races or why they exist. It's that simple, this isn't a debatable topic.
The more realistic a fantasy world is, the harder it is to make it feel genuine. VFX is probably a good thing to use as a comparison here.
Making VFX of some cartoon character? Pretty easy, people don't have any real reference for that and their instincts will lead them astray so long as they're human-like enough.
Making VFX of a human, or worse, a REAL person that died? Fucking disastrous, anyone can see through that shit immediately, even if they aren't trained in that field.
The exact same thing goes for worldbuilding. The more you try to make it "realistic" the more you will make it unrealistic because anyone that experiences the real world will feel that something about it is deeply wrong.
I know you're a retard, but I wanted to clarify for people in the thread that might've missed the point.
>>16953392
>who constructed multiple languages
Completely irrelevant to the worldbuilding though. It could be one language and it would all be the same. That's just jerk off material to autists.
>mythology that never featured in Lord of the Rings
It's almost as if people can read the Silmarillion.
>>16953403
>Do you even fucking read books? All you talk about is fucking video games.
Why would I reference books when these are things that everybody knows? I'm giving examples that any reader can recognize. Regardless of what you generally read, everyone has played a Warcraft game or seen Star Wars.
Amazing how people on here are so stupid just the simplest things go over their heads. No wonder you guys think Sanderson and Malazan are good. Illiterate monkeys with zero reading comprehension.

>>16952715
>Any world building: bad
>Confusion: good

>>16952625
Enjoy your circlejerk, nobody will miss you faggot.

New fantasy bad

Old fantasy good

>>16953559
You did it anon, you finally cracked the code!

I wonder who Sazed's 'sword' is, or more specifically, is it Marsh or Kelsier?

ALSO
Marsh would shit in Moash's mouth.

>>16953625
Yeah someone with the speed to teleport behind him and the strength to literally rip his head off would do pretty well.

>>16953625
It's Wax. It's how he views his role as someone Harmony can use to get rid of threats without going against his Intent. Stormlight takes place a few years before Mistborn's era 2 so Wax is alive at the time of Stormlight 4, and Stormlight 6-10 will take place 10 or so years after Stormlight 1-5 and after Era 2, so he is currently about 25-30.

>>16953245
>t. cosmere unaware brainlet
Like what is even the point of reading Sanderson if you're not showing up for his elaborately crafted universe? Do people really just hate-read his shit so they can discuss at length exactly how much they hate it and wish people would stop talking about it?

>>16953625
Marsh is an OP bastard, he could've probably solved most problems in RoW by killing all the siggers in Urithiru

>>16952384
Dark fantasy is fantasy influenced by horror to a certain degree. Sword & Sorcery is heavily influenced by horror.

>>16950557
It's very "my friends and I had a fun DnD campaign, I should turn it into a book." A group of adventurers explore old dungeons in search of treasure. The best find is a life sized human statue that appears to be cast entirely from an ultra rare magic metal. They bribe the duties officer to ignore it on their way back into the country since it's so valuable they wouldn't be able to keep it. He then sells the info to every major group in the city and there's a big black market war fight in the streets by all these groups trying to steal it. I read it a lot as a kid because I just thought it was a really fun story.

>>16953741
it's character driven action schlock, which is fine for most. his cosmere doesn't have coherent consistent rules either, so caring about that seems pretty retarded.

Are there any good books akin to space opera? I'm familiar with Galaxy's Edge as I've seen it mentioned here a few times but it's generally derided as being "just like Star Wars" quality wise. Then again, I rather like Star Wars (well, pre-Disney acquisition anyway) so maybe I should just give the series a read regardless

>>16954322
culture series is the best you'll find, foundation series is also solid.

>>16953801
>Marsh sneaking around in Urithiru instead of sadKaladin
I'd read it.

>>16954322
revelation space
xeelee

>>16952006
>It's a fairy tale in the chivalric tradition.
And this means what, exactly? Every tale is just going around and saving women from rape? Because... chivalry???

>There's no internal logic shit or magic systems or shit like that
Never expected any such thing.
>Some characters are neutral tricksters
I'm completely fine with that. Many good stories have such characters.
>some are evil, some are good
This can be said about good stories and bad stories.

>They serve as Arthurian stereotypes
I don't know what Arthurian stereotypes are in the first place. So how can I judge the work in any way other than by its own merits, or lack thereof.

>That's the best thing about him.
That's what made me tolerate the The Dying Earth. Enjoy it even.

>What are you, a woman?
No, as it happens I am not. But it's funny that you try to write off Jack Vance's rape kink by supposing a woman are too sensitive to understand such intelligently masculine work.
Which is ironic, because rape fantasies are fairly common among women. So are fairytales such as these. I bet Jack Vance has a relatively strong female audience.

>>16954322
Bujold

>>16953213
>nations and races each have a single defining culture
As far as nations go - that's how the world works in 90%+ of places and how it worked, especially in 'medieval' period.
Just because U.S.A. is a "melting pot" (and even then, American culture is very fucking uniform, seeing as we're fine generalizing here), doesn't mean every fucking nation is.

>>16954270
>his cosmere doesn't have coherent consistent rules either
And I'm sure you have examples of this and aren't just being an epin contrarian so all the other kids will think you're cool for disliking popular things?

>>16952859
that's what female party members are for!!

>>16952363
Redemption Ark - Alastair Reynolds, Revelation Space #2 (2002)

I had been hoping this was the redemption arc following the first book, but it wasn't. It has a similar plot structure, but somehow even less seemed to have happened, though what does is somewhat better. It baffles me how this was ~700 pages, when it ought to have been 300 pages. I woke up and began reading and didn't stop until I was finished. It certainly can serve to blot out a day if nothing else.
What annoyed me the most was the pacing whiplash. Reynolds spends a couple hundred pages describing the minutiae and then suddenly summarizes events that if they were paced the same as the rest of the book would have been hundreds of pages in of themselves most likely. It's unclear to me why he chose to summarize rather than having a more even pacing throughout. The epilogue is particularly egregious about this.
The characterization leaves much to be desired, especially near the end. Reynolds seems to forget that he's writing characters to the point where the pretense of them being more than plot devices is difficult to maintain. Instead of character development, it felt like character regression, which in the case of one character was literally true.
As with the previous book, infodumps abound. Maybe they're meant to be why someone ought to be reading this, because I don't have anything to say in favor of its other structural elements, though personally I was indifferent to them aside from a few being moderately interesting to consider.
I expect third book of the trilogy to exemplify these flaws to an even greater degree. If literally almost nothing until the epilogue and then the epilogue had more happen than rest of the book combined, I wouldn't be surprised.
Despite these criticisms, it's an entirely decent read overall. This trilogy would have been much better served by an editor who put the Fear Of God into Reynolds so that he'd have a Come To Jesus moment. Hopefully he'd have a Revelation of how much Space needs to be removed for him to be worthy of Redemption to be allowed on the Ark to receive Absolution from his readers for finally closing the Gap from what it could've been and what it is.
Rating: 3/5

>>16955651
>It's unclear to me why he chose to summarize rather than having a more even pacing throughout
because he's a chad who skips bits he's not interested in writing. we know the characters can pull off the action.

>>16955651
for me, it's the space chase and inertial dampeners

>>16955799
Yes, that's what I assume, but it's unclear why he'd think that would be a suitable practice.

>>16955862
>because he's a chad
oh ok

>>16955862
because he wants to tell a certain story, and some bits have to happen but they're not the story he wants to tell. he's chad enough to write the story he wants to write.

>>16956010
Unfortunately, it's probably also one of the reasons the books aren't more popular. It would seem to an inadvisable trade-off to me.

>>16955651
>>16955862
Ehh, if the heist of the lighthugger actually got a detailed writing, it would be a book in and of itself, could even be a good book
It wasn't the focus of this one

But, I had an entirely different reaction. When I read to book I was literally groaning as this event approached, I knew it would happen, I knew it would succeed, and I felt it would be a long distracting interlude, resulting in an entirely predictable end-state.
When it was brutally skipped like that, so refreshing, didn't see it coming

I also firmly believe, when you skip major happenings like that, due to the sheer length(?), you really don't want to condense them and include them, that may turn out poorly, rushed
Don't mind going right to the results, glossing over how it happened. Really don't want an overly long "summary" instead of what should have been a story
Still, I really hope length was the reason it was skipped (or something like how I mentioned feeling about it), I fear an author could also do this, if an event turned out too complicated to write well, solving written yourself into a corner, something like that. That would be,, hacky

Reynolds is not the only author that shamelessly does stuff like that, a bit hard to recall examples, figure it would blend in if executed well, but I'm 100% Gene Wolfe does even worse stuff, in almost every book. He fucking skips the main climaxes, not just large events, makes it work.

ok, I need another recommendation. No real preference this time. I only ask that the characters are good. Maybe something with mystery?
Sorry if you recommended something before and I haven't gotten around to it. I don't write recommendations down, so I forget them soon after the thread is over. If I missed your recommendation before, please leave it again, and I'll give it another look.

Finished:
Dune**, Licanius Trilogy*, The First Law, The Broken Earth*, Memory Sorrow and Thorn*, The Wheel of Time**, Nightflyers*, Book of the Ancestor*, A Memory Called Empire*, The Curse of Chalion 1-3**, Penric's Demon*, Penric and the Shaman*, Penric's Mission*, The Library At Mount Char@, The Farseer Trilogy**, The Elder Empire series(Shadow), Liveship Traders*, The Gentleman Bastard 1** and 2, Hyperion**, Endymion 1, The Dying Earth

Ongoing:
Cradle(Will Wight)**, A Song of Ice and Fire**, The Elder Empire series(Sea), Vorkosigan Saga**

Skipping:
The Prince of Nothing, The Book of the New Sun, The Black Company, Malazan, The Song of the Shattered Sands@, Borne, The Mermaid's Tale(V.D.Valdron)@, Endymion 2, Lyonesse@

*liked
**liked a lot
@disliked

>>16956373
everything you're skipping is objectively better than everything you've finished. sad!

>>16952715
Good worldbuilding is fun

Bad worldbuilding is a drag

Forget everything else

>>16956373
Lord of the Rings

>>16956373
Why are you skipping some of the only books people here pretend to like?

>>16956568
Coincidence. Either a bad audiobook narrator, or I genuinely disliked it. I can't suffer bad narrators.

Thoughts on Prince Roger?

>>16956373
>Finished WoT
>No Sanderson
>But also reading GGR
The Emporer's Soul or Warbreaker Don't have the massive commit of Stormlight which would be a bit much which what you are reading, or Elantris too.
Dresden Files exist, and are short enough that you probably could just read it to see if you like them.
Guards, Guards! exists, not really what you asked for but fun.
Snowcrash is also a mystery when it isn't being high on the late 80s, 90s, and VR

>>16952715
Good worldbuilding enhances whatever you're trying to say with the main story. Worldbuilding that detracts from the main story or does not contribute to it, whether because it is distracting because it doesn't make sense, takes up too many pages for insufficient returns, or is ultimately unnecessary window dressing, is bad worldbuilding.

>>16956373
Your taste is impressively bad.

>>16956666

>>16956657
>Guards, Guards!
The whole Watch series gives me a bonner

Which is why what the BBC did to it hurts so much

>>16956657
>>Finished WoT
>>No Sanderson
>>But also reading GGR
I don't know who GGR is. Did you mean GRRM? George R R Martin? I'm not good with names. So it's hard for me to follow all the name drops that occur in these threads.

But the reason I don't have any Sanderson under my belt yet, is that he really didn't impress me in the Wheel of Time. He did an adequate job closing off the series. But it could have been a lot better too. I don't think he can write women. Maybe this is due to the fact that Robert Jordan had his wife helping him with his book. So he could consult her for the female perspective. While Brandan Sanderson has to just hope he gets it right. But. In any case, when I finished WoT, I wasn't exactly enthused to go out and seek more from him.

So what do you mean by "massive commit"? And "what you are reading"? Are you saying Stormlight is too advanced for me?
I would prefer something that eventually has an ending. I don't like consuming book series where every book is a new tale like James Bond. I prefer continuity. Or one-offs. Which book fits that?

>>16956704
Hey, man. I just take 4chan recommendations. This is all stuff 4chan told me to try. This is largely 4chan's tastes, filtered through my own perception.
You guys get so up tight over the fact that I skipped your favorite author. It's not that big of a deal.

>>16956879
Yeah, Sanderson has a problem with women generally. They're usually insufferable like Serene, Vin, Shallan, and Jasnah. I never did read Warbreaker, though. It's funny how I'm always more invested in what the boytoy to the female lead is doing. Elend for Mistborne and Adolin for Stormlight. Raodin doesn't count because he was the main character.

He might be getting better. Honestly I don't mind Navani and I was invested with her parts in Rhythm of War, but that might be because I'm huge into magic systems.

Read Emperor's Soul. It doesn't take long and it's honestly quite nice.

As for continuity, Dresden Files is episodic but the relationships he builds (and breaks) during the series have ramifications so there's plenty of continuity to be had.

>>16956879
>Did you mean GRRM
yes, me being lazy
>So what do you mean by "massive commit"?
I wouldn't want to read two multi 1000+ page books series (Stormlight and GoT) simultaneously, I thought it might be a concern for another.
>I prefer continuity. Or one-offs. Which book fits that?
Emperor's Soul, Warbreaker, and Elantris are basically a one offs, yes. Dresden Files are episodic, with character building. Stomlight is a running series, with only book 4 having a time gap between books so far, but there is expected to be some sort of resolution at the end of book 5, before another 5 book series set 50(?) later.

>>16957110
Elantris will supposedly have sequels. Supposedly.

I think Stormlight 2 is set to only start a mere 10 years after the first run

>>16957131
And so will Warbreaker, supposedly.
10 years is also correct (if current projections hold).

>>16952363
I need some recommendations for good Russian sci-fi beyond the Strugatsky brothers and Lem.

>>16957110
>Look up Emperor's Soul.
>It's actually the second book of Elantris, not counting the novella.
>Look up Elantris.
>It's a part of something called Cosmere.
>Look up Cosmere.
>It's a mega universe encapsulating many different stories.
>Emperor's Soul is the 10th book of Cosmere by publication order.
Why is this. Why is this allowed? I feel tired just thinking about it. I get that I don't technically need to read the other books. But still, why wouldn't I read the other books first? I makes sense to me to start with Elantris, and then go into Emperor's. But I guess I should read the novella too? I never know how I should feel about novellas. They almost don't feel worth getting invested in.

>>16952806
cringe

>>16957365
>Why is this.
It's fun.
>Why is this allowed?
Because he sells enough books he gets to work on his nerd passion project. If it makes you feel better, most of the books in the cosmere canon stand alone in their own series without needing any context from the other series. Stormlight is where this trend is being slowly murdered though, and it's going to be the premiere cosmere story in the last 5 books integrating a lot of existing lore. Sanderson has always said he wants all the cosmere books to be accessible to anyone who just picks them up though.

>>16957365
Emperor's Soul is the novella. And you can definitely read it without knowing anything about Elantris the novel. The novellas tend to be more standalone like that.

>>16957342
>Russian sci-fi
>Lem

>>16957365
>Why is this. Why is this allowed?
It's literally the comic book marketing schtick. By making everything a crossover with everything else, readers are manipulated into buying more shit because otherwise they can't get the whole story. Meanwhile they also get sucked into other stories which also cross over with everything else thus are likely to spend even more money.

The American comic book industry died for a reason.

>>16957365
you don't have to read the other books, full stop. all the books I listed have NOTHING to do with each other, (other than Stormlight, which has more than a reference and less than an arc of "World-Hoppers" in it, and not really what I recommended).

Even Emperor's soul has nothing to do with Elantris, It's set vaguely on the same world, and there is literally one sentence that mentions one guy from a country from Elantris, and minor similarities on how the magic works (i.e. the Cosmere works on similar rules, doubly so for the same planet).

Also the novella (Hope of Elantris) is just about 2 chapters of deleted scenes from Elantris' climax from another perspective.

>>16957448
I know he's Polish but he always gets lumped in with the Russians in lists

>>16957455
So then Terry Pratchett is a hack and shit tier writer then? he did the exact same thing.

>>16957473
>Terry Pratchett is a hack and shit tier writer then?

Well yeah...

>>16957458
Alright, here's the deal, I'll try Emperor's Soul first. Since that was listed first by you, or whichever anon made the recommendation. So I assume that book is the best. If that's good, I'll go back and read Elantris for the satisfaction of completion.

But actually, I just realized that I haven't caught up on Cradle. So first I'm going to read Wintersteele. Then Emperor's Soul. Then possibly Elantris.

>>16956928
he's not getting better at writing women, shallan went from mildly irritating in book 1 to so bad in book 2 i had to skip most of her shit, and somehow gets worse in books 3 and 4, the only reason navani is ok is that she's basically just a scientist dude.

>>16957342
sf: We by Yevgeny Zamyatin
fantasy: Master and the Margarita

>>16957532
>women characters are emotional, irrational, and somehwat unenjoyable to get to know
How is this an incorrect interpretation of women?

>>16957563
it's not, it's generally why female characters in books are despised when they're the PoV, at least when they're supporting characters the dose you get is minimized.
navani is like a blank, you either are interested in the worldbuilding she's necessary to show to the reader and you can enjoy those chapters or you don't and you can't, the character itself is irrelevant.

Why did Jezrien sign his daughter Shalash up to be a Herald knowing that he'd be consigning her to an eternity of torture?
For one of the best men to ever live he wasn't a good father

>>16957700
She volunteered like all the Heralds did. If you're going to ask 8 people to suffer eternally with you then showing that you and your child are willing to go through it is a good measure of honesty

>>16957700
I doubt the heralds believed they'd be at this forever.

Also remember what Zahel said. They're all cognitive shadows and not the people they used to be. They're power masquerading as people

>>16957729
That's just what Zahel believes, in-universe they don't know if the actual soul is different or the same. Even if turning someone into a cognitive shadow kills the original person and leaves a double, it's still a perfect double with all their memories and feelings, so if their goal is to just stick them with the suffering while you move on to the afterlife, there's no reason they'll actually do it.

>>16957773
Considering Jezrien evaporated when he died I would hope they weren't actual souls for the sake of...their souls

>>16957773
Except Zahel is also a cognitive shadow, and is probably almost as old as the heralds. He knows the limitations of the form.

>>16957854
Isn't he about 500 years old or so? He comes from a world where people can turns into cognitive shadow when they die, that's a different set of circumstances than the Heralds. Kelsier is also a cognitive shadow in Secret History, and he doesn't think of himself as a separate entity from the Kelsier that was alive

>>16957870
I can't swear to Zahel's age, particularly since we have no clear timeline between the end of Warbreaker and his arrival on Roshar, but the more important distinction than age (that he actually points out in RoW) is that Returned are cognitive shadows robbed of their memories. This might actually give him more insight into the process since he wasn't created with a personality that lent itself to becoming singularly obsessed with an Intent. He had no personality at all and had to decide on his own Intent. And Kelsier's story is something of an outlier, since it's also pointed out that shadows don't become Inent obsessed all at once, but over long periods of time.

>>16957517
Elantris reader here, the book is a slog, probably the worse of the Cosmere universe.
Start from Emperor's Soul or Warbreaker.

>>16956373
Why skip BotNS? Are you a fucking moron or something?
At least read Fifth Head of Cerberus

>>16956373
>didn't like: Dying Earth
>skipping BotNS, Borne, Lyonesse, Prince of Nothing
>likes Broken Earth
>loves ASOIAF, Wheel of Time

Man, I rarely hate anyone, but I hate you
>loved ASOIAF, B

>>16958168
Elantris is a bit of a slog, but it's prototypical Sanderson and entirely worth the third act.

>>16957979
Yeah but we're not talking about how fast cognitive shadows get taken over by their intents, we're talking about whether or not they're the same people as they were when they were humans. Zahel doesn't believe it. The Heralds clearly do. And unless Vivenna is also a cognitive shadow or slowed her aging down it's probable Warbreaker takes place about 10 or so years before Stormlight 1

>>16958200
>>didn't like: Dying Earth
I was mostly indifferent to it. It had its good moments, and also its cringy moments. I dismissed a lot of the cringe as just a peculiar sense of humor. But after reading Lyonesse, I see now that a lot of the cringe was just plain poor taste by the author.

>Borne
Boring dumb bitch protagonist with nothing to offer. But wallowing in a relationship drama, while bad things randomly happen. Fucking slog.

>Lyonesse
Disjointed story with info dumps to try and prop up a barebones world, while the characters are treated like puppets with no real motivations of their own. Only being the subject to whatever contrived drama Jack Vance jerks off to.

>Prince of Nothing
Bad audiobook Narrator.

>Book of the New Sun
Narrated by Johnathan Davis, who intentionally makes his voice as emotionless and monotone as possible. Absolutely atrocious audiobook. >>16958177


>Broken Earth
One of my earlier reads, and so I was more forgiving of faults, as I was just trying to get into fantasy. Not the best, not the worst. Way fucking better than BORNE.

>Wheel of Time
Legitimately good, despite it's pacing issues. Stop being contrarian.

>A Song of Ice and Fire
Starts off better than anything else I've read so far. Kind of gets muddy in the latter books. But with the momentum it built in the beginning of the story, it's still a nice ride.

>>16958285
>audiobooks
Just fucking read, jesus christ.

>>16957473
>>16957484
Lol. Yeah terry was a hack but he was alright

>>16958294
It's audiobook or nothing. You think I can fix my eyes on words for an hour or more a day? Nah, fuck that.

>>16958294
Audiobooks are nice if you commute by cars in the morning and don't feel like listening to music or god forbid radio.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKiIroiCvZ0
This, but for listening to audiobooks instead of reading.

>>16958373
What a retard. If you watch a movie on a phone, in a good resolution, with not too much ambiant noises (either because you're alone or because you're using headphones), while giving it your full attention, then you've experienced the movie. Or is it better to pay 10 bucks to go to a theater where chimp will chimp out whenever something happens on screen?

>>16958373
Whatever, man. Some of you guys tell me that you read super fast anyway. What kind of experience is that? You're ingesting the narrative 6x the normal speed, but you still claim to have the full experience? Impossible. It would be like watching a movie at 6x the speed.

Stories are meant to be *told*. That's what the audiobook accomplishes.

>>16958454
If stories were meant to be told verbally, we never would have moved away from oral tradition. An audiobook is fine, except you're undoubtedly not internalizing it as well if you're doing literally anything other than listening, and in your case you're hamstringing your enjoyment of books that otherwise have shit narrators.

Is The Song of Achilles worth reading? How bad is is the gay in it?

>>16958505
We didn't move away from the oral tradition. It stayed alive in theater, then later radio. No, what happened was a bunch of nerds decided to write books that were impossible to tell in a reasonable time. So it took a while for technology to catch up and turn all those long books into audio recordings. You could say the oral tradition was inadequate for stories of great length. But that's no longer true. We have audiobooks now. And even podcasting.

>and in your case you're hamstringing your enjoyment of books that otherwise have shit narrators.
Meh. There are a kajillion other books out there.

>except you're undoubtedly not internalizing it as well if you're doing literally anything other than listening
I just focus a little harder.

>>16953342
Could be a troll, but makes some good points. Mostly about tying worldbuilding to the metaplot. >>16953213 gives the orthodox line, but you can do all of that and fail to tie it back to your story. At which point what your story will just feel like a travelogue through a made-up world (which is fine but probably not that popular with readers.) Good worldbuilding needs all of those things, but above all else it needs to serve the purpose of the narrative.

>>16958505
>If stories were meant to be told verbally, we never would have moved away from oral tradition.
What an absolutely retarded take.

>>16958309
Have you tried getting meds for that?

>>16958285
What an unattractive human.

>>16958285
If you liked Dune and Hyperion and don't mind fantasy (I think I saw some fantasy titles among your liked books, I don't read fantasy so not sure) then I think you should definitely give BotNS another try. Sorry you can't find a good audiobook, personally I think Wolfe read best on Kindle where you can easily query his more indigestible vocabulary. If you want something equally Wolfean but more of a conventional adventure then you could leapfrog ahead to Book of the Long Sun.

Glad you also found Borne utterly boring and stupid we're in complete agreement there

While I'm here I'm also contractually obliged to tell you that Blindsight by Peter Watts is the best scifi novel of the last 20 years and well-worth investigating

Are there any fantasy books that just feel like an adventure? Every fucking "adventure" fantasy book I read is just a bunch of kids trying to save the world while casually out-leveling everyone and anime screaming their way to victory. I just want a comfy adventure where the characters are kind of insignificant, they just travel the world to find someone/something and a lot of things happen on the way. No higher purpose, no fight for life and death, just an adventure. Closest thing I could think of is the book of the new sun, but that is a very heard read.

>>16958649
The Hobbit if you haven't already read it. A lot of fantasy from that period is similar to what you're describing

>>16958454
>Some of you guys tell me that you read super fast anyway. What kind of experience is that? You're ingesting the narrative 6x the normal speed, but you still claim to have the full experience? Impossible.
I agree. I read slow as fuck as subvocalize everything.

Should I read Ender in Exile after Ender's Game go in published order and read it much later after the Ender's Shadow books?

Should I read Ender in Exile after Ender's Game or go in published order and read it later after the Ender's Shadow books?

>>16958559
Yes, inconsistent bedtime stories for all eternity is definitely the preferable way.

Thank you Kelsier for saving another franchise

Don't forget to vote 10 times for your favorite meme book that keeps being deleted here. I'm sure he'd appreciate it.

>>16945227

> NOMINATIONS NOW OPEN FOR ALL BOOKS - WILL BE OPEN FOR THREE WEEKS. CLOSING ON DECEMBER 25.

>NOTE - We will be scoring this a bit differently this year. In the interests of making a more interesting and idiosyncratic list, we will allow you to vote *multiple times* for a single book, so that if you choose you can give more weight to one book than another. You essentially have ten 'points' to spend; you can nominate 10 books with one 'point' each, or one book with all ten 'points', or anything in between.

>>16958649
Dragonlance, Forgotten Realms

>>16958649
Fafhrd & The Grey Mouser.
Robert E. Howard's Conan, Kull, Bran Mak Morn, Solomon Kane.
Clark Ashton Smith's Hyperborea/Zothique/Averoigne stories.
Jack Vance's the Dying Earth & Planet of Adventure.

I'll also throw a lot in for chinese webnovels. Cultivation stories (the good ones at any rate) are basically just explorations of setting adventures with the driver being something vague about getting a stronger cultivation.

>>16956199
If it had been properly paced you may have felt differently about it being skipped.

>makes it work
Clearly not since he's a only a cult figure and an acquired taste. Relatively few enjoy orgasm denial.

Would anyone be value to recommend some classic scifi for children ages 5-10. Not something for them to read, but rather something to read to them? A la Alice in wonderland, winnie the pooh, etc. I'm struggling to think of any classics in the scifi domain for children/ young readers.

Thanks in advance

>>16958285
And why on earth are you skipping malazan? Did you get filtered by Gardens of the moon?

>>16958949
That's a bit young for science fiction.

>>16958949
younger: The Moomin books by Tove Jansson
older: The Prydain Chronicles by Lloyd Alexander
The Jinx series by Sage Blackwood
Dragonsinger by Anne McCaffrey

>>16959016
* oops Dragonsong. Dragonsinger is the sequel. Dragondrums is the 3rd book.

>>16956586
14\88ed lol

>Shallan remembers using the same kinda cube Mraize gave her in his childhood

Wait so this wasn't a meme, the bitch actually did kill the true Shallan and replaced her.

How many of you listen to audiobooks. Is there a difference between the type of books you read and the type of books you listen to?

>>16952499
throne of glass

Recently read the first Earthsea and really like the "spiritual aspects" of it. Are the other books worth reading or do they turn into more generic fantasy?

>>16959073
they get better

>>16959028
I eagerly await a better hypothesis. Veil was obviously constructed to shield her from memories of killing her first spren, Radiant also exists to protect her from her memories, but she coalesced only after Adolin insisted on teaching her to use her blade and Shallan couldn't bear to think about using it herself. It's written to lead you to believe that it's simply due to Shallan's inability, despite admitting and accepting the death of her mother, to come to terms with that knowledge, but why would she need to manifest a new protective alter ego to insulate her from something she already remembers?

>>16959055
I almost never listen to audiobooks. The only ones I would even bother to listen to would be ones I've already thoroughly read at least once.

>>16959028
>>16959080
So are we thinking that Shallan is actually a Ghostblood double agent the entire time?
What if 'Shallan' were an alter for the real Shallan who is just some dindu OC we don't know about yet?
I almost want to poke around 17th Shard for theories but I can't imagine the festering fanboy hole it must be now.

>>16959073
It gets worse. Tehanu in particular takes a massive shit on what came before.

>>16959089
>So are we thinking that Shallan is actually a Ghostblood double agent the entire time?
I think so. I've thought since WoR or so that Shallan has to be the "broken soulcaster" she set out to fix from the beginning, which basically has to mean the ghostbloods know what she's capable of since they're intimately aware of the Davars having their own "soulcaster". I think the last secret has to be *why* Shallan's mother tried to kill her.
Because it's not her mother at all and she found out what old man Davar did to try and obtain power for himself.

>>16959055
I only listen to audio books if I'm not that interested and don't mind missing bits of story when my attention shifts to something else for minute or two. My last listen was Wheel of Time. I'm now on Way of Kings. I usually listen to them when I'm doing something else at the same time.

If I like a book I'll read it on laptop or tablet. (The Belgariad, nonfiction about birds.) If I really like a book I'll get a physical copy with the cover art I like the most.(Master and Margarita, Ka, Comet in Moominland.)

>>16958949
10 is still too young but get them on Ender's Game when they hit 13/4ish

>>16954270
>character driven
>sanderson

>>16958954
>Did you get filtered by Gardens of the moon?
The one even most fanboys admit isn't very good?

>>16955138
>Melting pot meme

>>16958538
have you read Circe?

>>16958285
>audiobooks
filtered
>pleb taste
filtered
>that pic
kinda cute ngl

>>16958949

Brian Jacques
Kiddos do great with the Redwall series.

scifi is a bit harder. If you or your kids can still stomach star wars and don't mind feeding the mouse, the star wars library offers a lot of solid fiction for younger readers/listeners.

There is a lot of solid golden age stuff as well - tends to be more G-rated than modern sci fi. I remember enjoying The Weapon Makers quite a lot.

ITT: Plebs who don't know Dunsany, CAS, MacDonald, Morriss, Tolkien, McKillip.
Just stick with your 15 year old level reading. Rothfuss and Sanderson. Laughable.

>>16959756
In this post: someone who wants a (you)

>>16959905
You're god damn right. At least then I'll know some pleb has read my superior words.

>>16959914 (you)

>>16956373
You've fucked up. Much of the stuff you're skipping is the best that sff has to offer. Of the things you've read, Dune, Dying Earth and Hyperion are the only things at that creme de la creme point, and they're debatable. BotNS is GOAT, Black Company is better than most of the stuff you've finished, Malazan you can safely skip, Lyonesse is excellent. If you're skipping Lyonesse why does it have a "dislike" flag btw?

>>16959547
I liked it.

E William Brown sick. Prayers go out to him. Daniel Black needs to be finished.

William D Arand has a new pen name.
Discuss.

Recommend me some quality fantasy, /sffg/?
My favorites are
> LoTR
> Dune
> Earthsea
> Nausicaä (arguably fantasy)
> Elric
> Bakker

>>16960143
With a list like that you may as well just read the other most popular fantasy.

>>16960143
Viriconium
Wheel of Time
Dresden Files

>>16960132
Is it some kinda fapfiction?

>>16959980
Don't give the attentionwhoring beggar requestfags (you)s. They should be banned and sent to /wsr/. One thing /a/ does right.

>>16960132
What's up with all these litRpg things. Do they have any quality or is it just coomer shit?

Is It an Inchoroi weapon?
Is It the Absolute?

>>16958200
You're probably the conanfag from your tastes. Go be homosexual elsewhere.

do fantasy anthologies exist in the same way that scifi anthologies do?

>>16960285
It’s a philosophical zombie

>>16959166
I really wonder what answers we'll get (major (current) character arcs included I'm sure) but I wonder what we'll lose out on and still be wondering until book 6+.
I thought we'd be given a firm what-happened-during-the-Recreance but RoW was a tease.

>>16960221
It's fun. There is a lot of coomer shit those. I ignore those.
It's like hard scifi for fantasy. All the autist can sink their teeth into the work like STEMfags do.

Some cunt is trying to have Mastercard remove deadfish porn from pornhub.

How long before they try to censor our books and say that the persons getting raped in a book must consent first?

>>16960392
Well at least the guy who said he knew the truth of things didn't get killed at the end of the book like I thought he would. I'm interested in hearing why capturing Mishram was a bad thing beyond mass-lobotomizing an entire race

>>16960534
The last book is shaping up to cover the ten days before the final fight. I dunno how Shallan and Adolin can even get back to Shadesmar, or even be aware at what's going on at all in the physical world in that time.

>>16960534
Yep, was it Ba-Ado getting captured that caused the [REDACTED], as is implied? I wonder if it was captured with good intentions or not.

>>16960371
Yes

>>16960495
Uh oh, you may have forgotten the difference between fiction and reality.
Also, that isn't the main point of his article.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/04/opinion/sunday/pornhub-rape-trafficking.html

What's the most Christmas-friendly fantasy out there?

>>16960612
That caused what, the Recreance?

what's going on there?
does this foid really just publish entire anthologies of her own work?

LADS red pill me on The Black Company. Currently on book three and it’s good (Jesus did Erikson rip this series off for Malazan) HOWEVER....

Should I continue? Heard it gets shit in the middle. Plus I currently have
> the second Shadow of Torturer/Gene Wolfe
> Malice by Gwinne
> The second first law trilogy by Abercrombie
> Three David gemmel books
> some other shittos to read

Lit pill me on what to do next....

>Didn't see the twist coming in Ender's Game
Am I dumb?

>>16959756
If for McKillip you're talking about the Riddlemaster books, sorry but those are bad.

>>16960794

what twist?

>>16960913
He's reincarnated Hitler

>>16960920
wait for real?

>>16960913
When he goes to Command School and is training in their simulator to command the fleet against the buggers, he was actually commanding the fleet the entire time and they had to make him think it was fake so that he would holocaust them.
>>16960940
The aliens are a bug hivemind that are controlled by queens, and he defeats them by destroying their home planet which kills every bugger in existence.

>>16960956
>which kills every bugger in existence.

maybe you should actually finish reading the book.

>>16960956
>The aliens are a bug hivemind that are controlled by queens, and he defeats them by destroying their home planet which kills every bugger in existence.
Oh, I already knew that because of the movie, the Hitler thing would have been amazing

>>16960987
I did, and I know, but I felt like I didn't need to spoil every single thing or give him every detail about the ending. Is that fair?

>>16960920
Hitler only killed enemy combatants, though.

>>16960940
No but I'm only half joking. Card wanted to write a sympathetic Hitler type character.

anyone here read pic related?
thoughts?

>>16961054
Space Underwear

>>16960764
There's some Mishram being captured -> ??? -> Recreance, imo. Like one final puzzle piece.

>>16953446
>Which is why I know exactly how worldbuilding works, since it's no different than doing worldbuilding in a non-fantasy story
I didn't bother reading the rest of your post because it's obvious you're either a troll or too young to post here.

>>16960132
booba

>>16961165
Whatever shattered the Shattered Plains probably scared the hell out of them and caused the Recreance.

Probably has something to do with Dustbringers considering the pattern aspect resembles how their Spren manifest and how they can use division

>>16955138
>As far as nations go - that's how the world works in 90%+ of places and how it worked, especially in 'medieval' period.
It is staggeringly obvious you never studied history in any meaningful way, at best you took survey level courses. The further back you go in history, the more fragmented and diverse humanity becomes. History has been a slow amalgamation of cultures into bigger and bigger groups. In the bronze age individual cities had their own religious traditions, patron deities, currencies, legal codes, etc. This continued well into the iron age and antiquity, even as the first empires emerged and started to impose their culture wherever they held sway.

The true idiocy of your post is thinking uniformity of culture existed in the medieval world though, the era of perhaps the greatest decentralization of power in human history since the bronze age collapse. Even after Christianity converted most of the pagans in Europe every city had its own unique patron saints to replace the old patron gods. It took generations to stamp out local dialects and beliefs and to gradually homogenize the various European peoples into recognizably modern groups. A king might hold sway over vast. There were times when the kings of medieval England did not even speak English, and had subjects who spoke several different languages and even held to different religions. To say nothing of something like the Holy Roman Empire with its extreme mishmash of ethnicities, religions, and languages.

Seriously, do you even comprehend the magnitude of ignorance contained in your post?

>>16961346
I'm positive that whatever shattered the Plains was something related to Adonalsium, i.e., way before the Recreance.
I think it was from a Q&A but I can't find anything on it. The coppermind page https://coppermind.net/wiki/Shattered_Plains doesn't say much either and seems barely updated.

>>16961346
>Probably has something to do with Dustbringers considering the pattern aspect resembles how their Spren manifest and how they can use division
It does?

>>16961082
its definitely the victim of some artist not knowing what the fuck they were doing, I don't recall a single paragraph about characters being half-naked

whats some lit that goes into autistic detail about fantasy creatures

>>16958949
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obert_Skye
my sister loves to read her kids obert skye stories. the love wizard for hire particularly.

>>16960132
not him. theres like 30 people or so using the same artist as him for books and like 5 or so people that emulate him specifically.
https://williamdarand.fandom.com/

>>16962177
fuck nvm its actually him.

>>16960780
finish the 3rd book, after that croaker isn't narrator so you could start the 4th and see if you like it, i dropped it halfway through book 4.
gemmell is the undisputed master of heroic fantasy, you probably want to save him for last since everything else feels empty and soulless by comparison.
BoTNS is great, but if you're not in the mood for that kind of prose and plot you should read somethin else. didn't care much for malice.

>>16961421
the plains were shattered in a pattern + the canyons were likely stone converted to dust, so either dustbringers or a soulcasting gone horribly awry would be the cause
either way it's almost certainly the event that scared the radiants off surgebinding forever.

Anons pls recommend me something similar to the night angel trilogy

>>16962459
They probably weren't canyons when they were created but Roshar's nightmarish weather eroded them into canyons a lot faster than what we're used to

>>16955138
it's other way around retard

>>16962500
yeah that's what i mean, the plains weren't shattered ie split apart by a great force, there was a pattern overlaid atop them and then that pattern was converted, probably to a uniform depth. then over centuries all the sand or dust or whatever it was turned into got eroded/washed away, and the canyons eroded into asymmetrical shapes due to highstorms approaching from one direction.

i think the event is more of a experiment gone bad kinda deal, like hey what happens if we do a soulcasting with this supplementary device that lets us soulcast air into a pattern, and what if we use voidlight instead of storm- oh fuck everything's ruined time to delete ourselves before we do this to the entire planet.

>>16953342
t. drooling retard

>>16962523
Do we know how long the Dawnshard was hidden in Akinah?

If it was after, it was probably used there. I think it's the reason the Sleepless told Rysn they'd kill her if she tried to become a Radiant

Can anyone recommend some good low or epic fantasy novellas? Too much modern fantasy is three or five books, and pushing 500+ or 1000+ pages. I'm trying to read comfy and light, not War and Peace.

>>16962648
I just picked up the Rogues anthology today, its got a lot of modern hacks in it but I'm hoping it will be this.

>>16955138
>retard actually thinks everyone believed and thought exactly the same thing
When has there ever been a consensus on fucking anything in any group of humans of any size?

Why are Fantasy and Sci fi always bundled together

I don't get it they're pretty different

Finished Healers' Road, because I thought I wanted to read slice of life by westerners. The book is sadly really bad. The setting is a comfy caravan in a very vague world with some countries that look European or Asian. The atmosphere is very similar to that shitty Violet Evergarden anime (the one about the android and her letters), except it's all peaceful and everyone's kind. In other words, boring.
The writing is terrible, everyone is feeling their gut clenching, or panicking, in constant fear of offending, eyes watering, crying. The dialogue is pure reddit cringe, like what a redditor imagines must pass as sociable and polite conversation. There are 230 occurrences of the word "thank". Everyone thanks each other, sometimes multiple times per dialogue. I didn't check how many "sorry" there were, but there must be just as many. You could replace the characters with contemporary lesbians with dyed hair in conversation with trans people and white liberals and you wouldn't know the difference.
One third of the book is nothing but two self absorbed tsunderes, misunderstanding each other, and being petty and whiny. Then it's all over and the doctors just choose to start over. Then 1/3 of treading carefully, and the Oh everything's wonderful and we're super best friends teaching each other about our religions and languages.
Fucking hell, the single Spice & Wolf LN I've read (translated by some ESL Chinese mind you) was better than this crap.

>>16961998
the Pern books have a bunch of shit about dragon mating, impression, etc.

>>16961998
Start with Borges' Book of Imaginary Beings.

Does the dumb bitch Shallan ever stop or at least tone down with her multiple personalities? I'm 30 chapters in and it's close to unbearable. Her story doesn't even need to be good, just not God awful.

>>16963032
end of book 4 she gets some of her shit together, but it remains to be seen whether that remains in future books, since kaladin keeps going back on his mopey whiney can't protect everyone bullshit literally nonstop in every book it's probably a safe assumption that future books will have the same self-doubt whining nonsense problem that books 2-4 have had.

>>16962812
they can be, also there are overlaps
both are generas defined by a certain expectation of clichés/themes

>>16958285
PRINCE OF NOTHING ON AUDIO BOOK???? AAAARRGGHHHHH AARGHHB GOD NO-NO-NONONONONONONONO OOOHHH LOOK AT THE TOP OF HIS HEAD *wheezes* AAARGGHHHGHHH

>>16958649
Great book of amber or whatever it’s called

>>16962542
>Do we know how long the Dawnshard was hidden in Akinah?
Long enough that the Horneaters have legends about its arrival.

>>16963056
Thanks, I'll force myself to read it now that I don't have hope it will get better.

>>16952499
Bakker.
I’m no expert on these things but it does seem he poured a dangerous amount of himself into those books and is still yet to recover. It will be a sad timeline if we don’t get a continuation.

>>16963056
>since kaladin keeps going back on his mopey whiney can't protect everyone bullshit literally nonstop in every book
So you didn't finish book 4 or you're literally incapable of critical reading?

>>16963191
no, i did finish it, i have no hope that the characterization at the end of book 4 will actually carry over into book 5 and kaladin will stop being a whiny maudlin idiot with a worldview that is incompatible with reality. he overcomes this shit at the end of every book and then falls right back into depression, every fucking time, it's infuriating.

>>16963202
>he overcomes this shit at the end of every book
The crux of book 3 is he's literally incapable of accepting he can't save everyone and Dalinar had to save him instead. There is not a single instance of this acceptance prior to the end of RoW. Again, I can't tell if you're just being spitefully disingenuous or literally have no grasp of the books you pretend to read.

>>16963226
that notion is embodied in journey before destination, the fucking first radiant ideal, pay more attention

>>16963231
Every radiants ideals are embodied in "journey before destination", that's why EVERY ORDER say those words. "I accept I can't save everyone" is literally Kaladin's fourth ideal. He's perpetually struggling through 3.66 books with the idea he can't protect everyone. Now show me where, in the ending of the first 3 books, he accepts he can't save everyone only to regress by the next book. That is how you described his arc, isn't it?

would you read an anon's book?

>>16960221
Read the Russians if you want the concept played straight.

>>16959073

>>16963763
Le Guin had three children, retard. You will never have any.
>>16959073
Earthsea is beautiful, the whole series. Tombs is great. Farthest Shore is probably my favorite. The Other Wind is good too. I don't know of any other fantasist who writes with the same spiritual depth as Le Guin, with the exception of Tolkien.

>>16952363
I bought the whole Black Company series minus the port of shadows, was it worth it and what am I in for?

>>16963945
Just read them baka

They're pretty good

>>16963945
first 3 are a-ok, rest is kind of a tossup.

What are some stories with talking monkeys?

Any recc's for male-centric fantasy or sci-fi? By that I mean the main character/pov is a male and females are generally secondary or supporting characters, tired of the modern strong-women archetype.

>>16963990
history

>>16964016
Any sci-fi written before 1970. Probably most of the 80's too.

>>16964068
I went through most of the good stuff from that era already, anything specific and/or non-mainstream? I've read all of the major players from that era, going all the way back to Verne and Wells.

>>16963990
The Autobiography of Malcolm X

Finished meme related today. Honestly better written than a lot of trash but trash nonetheless. Awful swear substitutions ad infinitum. I wager a good 75% of the convos had "Kent kissing" tacked on to "bastard" or the like. Real curses are present too so he either wanted to tone it down or didn't see it for the cringe it is.

Monk portions sucked, starting boring, sudden exposition dump, never recovered.
The sister might as well not exist, she's barely in it which is lame because her position in the kingdom offered the most intrigue potential.
That leaves fantasy spec ops training, which is the only hook of the book. Thankfully it's given more focus than monk bullshit.

Annick best girl. Would head pat sensually. Adare an absolute whore reminding fathers everywhere that daughters make you a cuck.

cyberpunk lovers: >>>/v/535029156

Top 3 fantasy Top 3 sci-fi reads?

Also any comfy fantasy reads are appreciated

>>16964725
Jackie Chan

>>16964016
The Mask of the Sorcerer

>>16964420
Based Carlos.

>>16964232
Do you think you'll read the next book? I never bothered to read past book 1 and mostly agree with your assessment from what I remember of it (was over a year ago I read it at this point and to be honest it's not super memorable). I remember feeling like the sister's plot was wasted though, so that part of what you wrote is definitely spot on.

>>16963945
I enjoyed the first book, or three books, not sure. The volume I have is, I think, an omnibus of the first three books.

>>16965140
Nope. I fell for the "it's epic fantasy full of intrigue" thing which is a total lie. Fallen for that a lot in the hopes of finding large scope geopolitics stuff but I've been disappointed 100% of the time.

>>16962484
His other series

>>16965177
I'm still on the fence about continuing it so was hoping somebody would give me the push to start book 2 or formally drop it. Back to ambiguity then.

>reading the great and secret show
>cool wizard shit, breddy interesting take on occult
>suddenly
>teen girls talking about boys forever
pls go back

>>16965242
Maybe we'll get lucky and another anon can weigh in. I can certainly see it scratching my itch better given book 1's end, but I try not to get burnt twice by the same author

>>16965270
>>16965242
I read the first book a long time ago and I've never gotten around to reading the 2nd book, but I greatly enjoyed it at the time.

If you want to, we could all read and discuss it together sometime. Going to sleep now.

>>16964232
Fuck Adare fuck Adare fuck Adare fuck Adare fuck Adare

/sffg/, I'm rereading the Underland Chronicles hoping it will reignite my interest in my writing, but all I'm getting out of it is the realization that I'm a massive fucking windbag. Collins says in three pages what I say in a chapter, and she somehow manages a more varied lexicon despite the fact that she's writing for 10-year-olds

>>16965577
She's also way too obsessed with ptsd, and it ruins all of her series for me

>>16965598
I'm seeing this crap a lot recently. So many writers want to write about mental illness and I'm sorry but I'd much rather read about someone trying to overcome the consequences of their actions or impossible situations that fate thrusts them into than someone fighting against their own brain to attempt to function like a regular human being

Oh look, the autistic character in a medieval setting got touched and now he's going to throw a fit and grind the plot to a halt. Again.

>>16952363
I don’t think this counts as a vague rec, sorry if it does but my favorite books I read as a kid were
>Harry Potter
>Percy Jackson series
>tapestry series

What is the next evolution of fantasy novels to read as an adult? Anything you would say is an adult version of the above? Thanks in advance

>>16965662
I can't speak for "adult analogs", but knowing your favorite series I can safely say you'd definitely enjoy Sanderson.

you know, it strikes me that it hasn't just been a year and a half since I was enthusiastic about my story. I can't remember the last time I was actually brought to a state of hypomania by a book. Battle Grounds didn't do it for me, The Empire of Gold didn't do it for me. Hell, most of this shit is just a blur at this point. I think the last time was when The Kingdom of Copper came out two years ago

when the fuck did I start hating literature

>>16965904
When you got old

I'm feeling it. I haven't watched a movie or TV show since Christmas movies with my family last year

>>16963173
the ending was perfect

>>16965933
it's either dnd poaching my inspiration or this soulless job starving my mind. I can't tell which

>>16965969
Before I lapsed back into neetdom thanks to mass layoffs having a soulcrushing job only made my hungry for escapism worse. I even bough a travel laptop to write on the bus

>>16965969
Probably both. You're burnt out from work and the boredom energy you harness during the day goes to some fleeting tabletop scenario rather than the thing that doesn't net you instant dopamine from your players. People can do all three but it likely requires more dedication than the average enthusiast can dish out, so either cut one or rise to the challenge.

I memory holed and was wrong. The Plains weren't shattered before humans came. I think I was remembering some ancient question where somebody asked if the Plains were where Adonalsium was Shattered.
Also y'all are gonna get a kick outta this one: https://wob.coppermind.net/events/29-eurocon-2016/#e2025

>>16966080
Yeah the plains were shattered when humans lived there. It's why Narak is full of crusted over ruins and why the ten warcamps were built in existing craters

>>16966084
Dalinar even remarked when flying over that they (craters) were remnants of large domes. I wonder what they were exactly.

>>16963583
i don't read fanfiction

>>16963990
Lord of Light (ape)
Journey to the West (monke)

>>16966095
Their orientation is really strange. They were just in a cluster of 10 set in a curved line as though bordering a massive circle.

>>16966112
Yeah, I wonder what its dealio is. That Listener city underneath the Plains too.

>>16966107
You know, Journey to the West didn't really inspire me, but I remember being amused by how modern it felt. Pretty much any fight scene in which he and an enemy got in a transforming match with each other reminded me of western cartoons spoofing DBZ, and that one scene where they're trying to cross a river or gorge (I forget which) and get into an argument about how cloud somersault works instantly brought to mind that whole family guy bit about "why didn't they just fly the eagles to mordor"

I'm not saying it's good, but if you sat an overweight midwestern family who watches the kardashians every night in front of an animated rendition of Journey To the West that didn't change a single line (other than translating it I mean) they would probably watch the shit out of it

>>16966153
>average family watching DBZ knockoff
yeah no

>>16966176
the kids would watch it

>>16966095
I wish I was autistic enough to be able to translate women's script.

lol

>>16965904
Break out of the genre for your next few reads

>>16957342

The Slynx. Really good.

>>16964016
Hogg by Stephen Delany

>>16958954
Sounded too much like a D&D campaign at the very beginning. Came across as generic. Pro writing tip: Don't refer to your characters by their D&D class. as in "the wizard", "the thief, "the warrior", etc.

>>16959697

>>16959980
See >>16950661 and >>16950788

>>16967084
the behaviour of that girl is giving me anti-ASMR
like scratching the blackboard with your fingernails

>>16967101
What a creative way of saying "cringe"

>>16967112
I'm on /lit/ I gotta be profound

Anyone into tabletop rulebooks but never actually playing a game? Just enjoying the setting, mechanics and general feel of the book?

>>16967089
Yikes. Not surprising incels eat this shit up and praise it.

>>16967172
Any you recommend?

ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhem
new bad

>>16967172
>>16967395
I enjoy Degenesis

>>16967424
False. Old bad.

>>16966337
kek

>>16967424
>>16967469
You're both wrong. It's All Bad.

>>16967551
This. Name one good book.

>>16965248
gotta get that bechdel acheivement

>>16967084
Calling Malazan D&D strikes me as referring to 40k as "star wars like".

>>16967650
LOTR is D&D

>>16967650
Malazan is literally based on a series of tabletop campaigns the author played in college.

>>16967685
MUH GURPS!

>>16967172
I'm idly reading Mage The Ascension and Scion. I feel like it's how magic would work in the world if it did exist. I detect some Roger Zelazny influence which I like. I'd never actually play either one.

>>16957365
If you can't figure it out from giggling you're too retarded to be posting here. LURK.

>>16957365
Elantris is a standalone. You don't need anything else. The rest is authorial fan fiction.

>>16968134
>giggling
Oh noes, your argument was undercut by an unforced error!

Previous
>>16952363

>Recommended reading charts (Look here before asking for vague recs)
https://mega.nz/folder/kj5hWI6J#0cyw0-ZdvZKOJW3fPI6RfQ

>Archive
>>/lit/?task=search2&search_subject=sffg

>Goodreads
https://www.goodreads.com/group/show/1029811-sffg

>Discord
KWPCM7m

>>16957365
I don't like setups like this either. It aggravates my autism which makes me want to read everything in the "correct" order.

>>16968182
ouch
when will discord newfags get the rope?

>>16968196
>>16968196
>>16968196
new thread

>>16968195
stfu