/lit/ - Literature

>Epstein
Totally agree though

Never going to happen, normies got trolled by Montessori and Froebel over a century ago into believing little kids should be treated like special snowflake retards instead of drilling the idea of a rigorous liberal education into them from birth like the aristocrats used to do. The idea of "teenagers" is an extension of this early infantilization, you'd basically have to uproot the entire education systems of most western countries but they'd never allow it because 1) a lot of people are invested into this shitty system, like worthless roastoids with education degrees and thousands of dollars in debt in the US who couldn't hack it in a "real" school and 2) these places serve as indoctrination camps, so actually educating very young children would get in the way of interests behind this. So you end up with teenagers who aren't equipped to behave like adults, because they've been babied up until puberty.

I think it's a reasult of having a need of an educated workforce. You are an adult when you can/could have a household of your own. No one is financially ready for this before 18 nowadays, most not before 25. A major factor in this is that industrialism separates the connection between people and land, meaning families are torn apart when the various members are forced to move far away for work. This makes it so that every adult has to fend for his or her own offspring, and that they can not depend on grandparents and so on. This postpones adulthood significantly.

t. gave this a fair amount of thought a few years ago.

>>16934810
good post

>work and be a slave your whole life goy
>you can have no periods of being carefree you must always work work work

>>16935268
You yourself sound like a slave who cannot think about adulthood separately from slaving

>>16935293
What else would it be in this world?

>giving young people adult authority and responsibility

So like I said, no period where you're carefree, instead you must be responsible from the beginning, that sounds awful, you have the whole rest of your life to be that way and in an ideal world everyone should be free.

>>16935343
>What else would it be in this world?
its an open question, I just dont think it has to be necessarily wage slaving. For example, we could abolish schools after 11 years~ and people would then go study serious things they like instead of wasting time in schools doing nothing because they are supposedly stupid and in need of overlook

>>16935398
Well I agree with that but with the way its stated in the OP it seems like he just wants people to start slaving early on.

>>16934778
>>16934810
>>16935293
Shut the fuck up phony adults.
You’re just jealous of teenagers because you’re old and boring.

>>16935420
haven't read the book, will at least give it a good skimming session to find out if he wants more wage slaves or to actually realize unused potential without appeals to such anglo virtues as productivity

>>16934778
This is impossible in most of America though because of the suburbs and housing structures of most American cities. In fact, outside of Chicago and NYC, you are at the whim of the decisions of your parents. You can't will a car into existence to get out and interact.

>>16934810
Maybe it is impossible now, but not for long.
Remember that the American Empire is crumbling.

>>16934778
Never going to happen because of the pedo witch hunts. The only way to initiate teens into the world of adults is to have them interact with adults.
But because our culture is so mindlessly paranoid of pedophilia, adults and teens don't interact for fear of the accusations flying for the adult side, and because adults are portrayed as "lame" for the teen side.
Of course romantic and even sexual relationships will develop when adults mingle with teens, because its NATURAL.
But in our cultural climate of fear, its impossible for teens to be initiated until they are well into young adulthood, which causes problems.

>>16934778
I was just thinking about this- how I felt like I was waiting to start my life as a teen and how much happier I would have been as an apprentice then instead of wasting time in public school. I remember some students in my art and English classes that were learning quickly and doing great work for their age but were held back by all of the busy work.

>>16934810
are we reading him?

>>16935343
Freedom and responsibility go together. You sound like a degenerate by assimilating answering for yourself to slavery.
You sure disagree with the book by not merely accepting but glorifying the infantilization of young people. The aim of education is to forge responsible people out of the genuinely helpless kids. It shouldn't be about prolonging "carefree" existence beyond what comes from the psycho-physiological state of children.

>>16934778
Adults are taken in way more interdependant networks. They're way more socially conformit. Extreme political ideas, interest in fringe art, etc., are all adolescent things. Adolescents are obviously more independant-minded and rebellious, we even have a word for it "teen angst". Contempt for this is the contempt of people who have compromised and are afraid of vitality and sincerity.
(((Epstein))) here isn't making a case against infantilisation and group-think, because adolescents aren't especially guilty of that. He's making a case for group-think and submission.
I do agree that adolescents should interact with adults more though. That extends to children as well. But with interesting adults. Not with their "co-workers" and "bar mates" like the retarded, self-loathing beings most of them will inevitably become will do.

>>16936429
Not the anon you're talking to but here's my idea on that. Young adults aren't really responsible today either. Most adults are children too, totally dependant upon how they are socially percieved and playing their role well in the economy.
Aristocrats have always offered their children long childhoods because that way, they had time to develop, think, acquire confidence. You want to treat your kids like medieval serfs and have them be economically "independant" (i.e. independant from your money, dependant from some other cunt's money), go ahead, I'll give mine as much time as possible to decide what they want out of life.
I do agree that people in general today are lazy and childish though.

>>16935452
>it's suburbs' fault that i don't go out on friday night, just like the liberals on reddit said!
This is, perhaps, the saddest and most desperate post I've seen in a long while.

>>16934778
Sounds about right to me. Alexander the Great died at 32. Most millennials still live with their parents at that age, and most haven't matured since they were teenagers.

>>16936483
>Adolescents are obviously more independant-minded and rebellious
holy shit kill yourself. teens derive their ideas from whatever the media tells them and whatever faggot teachers they idolize. teachers, by the way, that are so subpar as humans, so utterly mediocre and trapped in a state of arrested development themselves that they BECAME TEACHERS.

the worst abuse leveled at teens and even young adults is making their roles models and source of learning teachers and the media. but especially teachers. lowest average SAT score of any major. and yet they are the ones pushing globohomo liberalism that this retard thinks is extreme and rebellious.

>>16935343
>muh freedum from authority & responsubility

>>16936515
This is wrong on many levels.
Aristocrats were not maintained into infancy. If anything they barely had any, being tasked with various responsibilities early on, even if restricted to trivial matters at first. The education you see described in Castiglione, Gracian, Bossuet or even Rabelais is about becoming a baron capable of judging life and death at age 14.
Goethe knew it when saying "to live as one likes is plebian". Obviously in this sense of infantilization as opposed to law and order, social sure, but most of all the inner sense of answering to oneself (and to God). Noblesse oblige.

>>16936483
This fits very well into the thread. It is the view of adulthood that current adolescents bots mostly share.
Adults are so uncool and don't understand the greatness of Linking Park and my deviantart account (insert whatever are the zoomer equivalents). They are all sell outs because they like...go to work on mornings. What do you mean I should drop out of high school to be consistent? My future's on the line!

More seriously I really don't get where the social conformism bit is supposed to come from. Around age 22-23 people simply stopped giving a single care about what I think. Peer pressure becomes increasingly unusual. Bullying essentially disappears outside very fringe cases. People you don't know well don't openly mock you even when you're asking for it.
It is adolescents that are kept in an artificial oversocialized environment 24/7.

Translation:
Some Jew wants to lower the age of majority to get more years of tax paying wage slaves.

Learn to read between the lines with kikespeak.

>>16936859
>>>>/pol/

>>16936882
Seethe more rabbi. We know how to spot your shit now.

>>16936859

>>16936908
In this case, it actually is though?

>>16936859
Just have them tax free for those years. Schlomo will cry about it. They'll turn ancap the day they have to pay taxes after years of not doing it.

>>16936859
Close, Rabbi Epstein wants the age of consent to be lowered.

>>16936985
Nah, Jews don't want to lower the age of consent. The whole point is to stigmatize it in the public's eye. If it's legalized and normalized then there is more competition, and they want all children for themselves.

Was definitely true for me, I hated being treated like a child when I was 16. Then I got a job and moved out at 18.

Where can I get this, it isn't on libgen
Or is it called something else?

>>16934778
In the third grade I started to help my brother with his paper route. Employment and running away from home are two of the few good memories from my childhood. I moved out at 16 but could have earlier. Our current system is designed to keep kids powerless and is justified by it's own success at doing so.

>>16934823
I was out at 16 and never went back. People just don't want to spend any time being poor. That's fine I suppose but don't argue that they "can't"

>>16936483
>>16936859
>>16936902
>>16936917
>>16936985
>>16937015
Adolescence is a modern sociological invention. The idea of rolling it back is literally a return to tradition.

Your Jew-hysteria blinds you to this.

Its definitely true that teens are basically kneecapped. Most teens actually want to mature and be more adult, but are severely held back. Epstein however is probably only saying this because he wants to fucks teens

>>16935343
You have been thoroughly infantalized. You are a total pussy because of it

>>16938266
>Epstein however is probably only saying this because he wants to fucks teens
based

>>16935545
In the church I attend, young adults are usually the group leaders for the teens. Its a dynamic Ive never seen before joining. It's really smart because the young adults serve as "cool" role models and close enough in age and culture to understand and guide. My family is secular, and we have a close friend family with a teenage son. I was sort of imitating the church function, and I found I could get along with him pretty well. But the adults in both families both think its really weird. The hard cut off line between an 18 year old in high school and an 18 year old out of high school is a totally arbitrary and socially harmful stratification. It breaks off the cultural continuity entirely

>>16934793
This
I still agree despite the obvious

>>16938266
Who wouldn't?

>>16934778
I'd be interested in reading this if discusses various "coming of age" rites that exist in our culture and others, that seems very relevant to the subject.

>>16938356
>>16938304
Is this /tv/ or /lit/

>>16934778
I agree with the general premise, but (((Epstein))) makes me think this is just a thinly-veiled rationale for lower age of consent laws

>>16938400
it's a crossover episode

>>16936859
But I thought the Jews were turning us into feminized infants in order to destroy Western civilization. Which is it?

>>16938155
So you’re suddenly a conservative?

>>16938412
This would indeed be part of it, especially from an amerimutt perspective.

>>16934778
I noted that in adolescence is when people start to become evil, if they just skipped it would be great

>>16934778
This is great honestly

>>16938009
It's mostly about wanting to secure a future for yourself. Moving out early can pay massive social and insight dividends, but it generally will fuck you over financially.

>>16934778
LET'S GOOOOOO, I want to see the consequences of 16 year olds being patres familias with pregnant wives and jobs and shit.