/lit/ - Literature

The whole enlightment in France in responsible, Rousseau, Voltaire, Diderot etc..

Remember that after the Fronde, Louis XIV locked down the nobility in Versailles and denied them any power and real knowledge.

The nobility went from the best Musketeer and "Gentilhomme" in Europe to faggots going to theatre, chatting during hours of futility in the salons and they became disconnected from the real world, since they never went out of Versailles.

Shitty people only makes shitty ideas

bump

The terror was pretty necessary.

>>16921534
And it was not as bad as people say it was.

What are some good reads about the revolution and the terror for the amateur with little prior understanding?

>>16921547
>>16921539
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https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLi-nstDpMFxcNWB59MsvAQrNSZVTaiR9_

>>16921539
kinda the whole point with terror in general, m8

>>16920133
this faggot makes me unfathomably mad. he is single handedly responsible for the "enlightenment" and the decline of the west that results. why the fuck didn't we just stick to hobbesian principles and erase this degenerate communist from history??

>>16920133
You could blame a misunderstanding (whether genuine or politically expedient) of Rousseau for the Terror, but i don't think you could blame Rousseau himself. You could say that he was a part of the causal chain leading up to the terror, but that isn't enough to establish blame. I don't think any honest reading of Rousseau and the General Will could be interpreted as advocating for the Terror. Unless you want to make the argument that Rousseau's lack of clarity surrounding the application of the concept makes him culpable, but i don't think that has much weight either. The extent of the blame is small if any.

>>16921625
>bro the elites are baseD!! blood and soil!!! BASED!! I LOVE KINGS!! MUH NATURAL HIERARCHY

>>16921625
You flatter rousseau if you think he is single-handedly responsible for the enlightenment

>>16921625
Decline of the West? Lol what are you smoking? After the Enlightenment and the FR, Europe exploded in its power.

>>16921625
The enlightenment improved western civilization, immeasurably. If the west is declining now it is in spite, not because of, the enlightenment. In any case monarchism was fated to be on the way out, the enlightenment reflects the operation and articulation of universal laws of historical development.

>>16922168
I just dont get where these retards get the idea that the Enlightenment was a bad thing? Where does all this anti-intellectualism come from on a fucking literature board of all places?

>>16922330
tradcath satellite groups from twitter and discord

>>16920133
It's not his fault that the idiots of the French Revolution misread him.

You are not supposed to achieve the General
Will by exterminating everyone who doesn't think like you dumb revolutionaries. Rousseau's idea of the General Will was not supposed to be applied to anything bigger than a city-state anyway.

>>16921625
Adulthood is realizing that while both Hobbes and Rousseau are wrong, Hobbes is the one who was less wrong. Leviathan > Social Contract

>>16922121
>kill your nobility like a retard
>lots of people lose their lives because of the Robespierre
>emperor takes over starts wars
>Spain loses its colonies thanks to Napoleon
>more people die
>Napoleon ends up losing anyway lol
>Pax Brittanica

Yeah, those retards truly helped boost European power across the world.

>>16920193
The conclusion is that the one responsible for all this is Louis XIV.

>>16921625
Rousseau comes at the end of the Enlightenment. And while he is one of the most important intellectual figures, he's just one among several.
Also
> why the fuck didn't we just stick to hobbesian principles
we've never really left hobbesian principle, not even to this day. Get a grip.

>>16920193
What are you blabbering about? Diderot was the son of a craftsman and Rousseau wasn't even French. Only Voltaire had tenuous ties to nobility through his mother.

>>16922925
Yes they did, they set the stage for world-spanning European colonization. Western countries losing their colonies due to intercontinental rivalry was already a century old tradition when Napoleon came to power.

the only person to blame for the terror is the king

>>16922971
t. Jacobin

>>16921539
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_in_the_Vend%C3%A9e
>Casualties and losses
>~30,000 military killed[1][2]
>~130,000 military and civilians killed[1]

Sure thing faggot, sure thing.

>>16923447
Lmao you can't blame the war on Robespierre. The people who were behind the terror, opposed going to war.

>>16921534
>>16921539
Except it was fucking bad becuase it led to further infighting that lead to napoleon and the death of the first revolution also establishing frances future tenative state of national unity, frankly France was the worst place for the Revolution to happen for France and it would have been more interesting had the Revolution in France failed by being put down by the first coalition
>>16924031
The war in the Vendee happened because the people of those areas felt the Revolutionary Government centralization would only represent the interests of the lower to middle class of people in the cities as appose to themselvse who at least felt some representation through and loyalty to the Church and the Aristocracy

>>16922948
They set the stage for British dominance and Hegemony overall until WW!

>>16922971
Cringe
>>16921766
>I don't wanna be ruled by kings anymore
>what do you mean a small number of elites rule over us in most systems
Also the French revolution gave rise to even more disasterous wars

>>16924086
It also gave rise to the richest century of litterature, music, philosophy, paintings, but keep being a cringe reactionary poorly read faggot who reads bronze age mindset and thinks le Kings are le based

>>16923241
redpill me on who is stopping the Leviathan's blade here

>>16924144
I dare you to name even one good French author or artist.

>>16922925
But for a fleeting moment under Napoleon France was a great power. Don’t you think that fleeting moment of being a great power was worth not being a great power for nearly the next two centuries?

>>16923241
Rousseau's social contract represented by his cane

>>16924762
meant for >>16924351

>>16921625
imagine misreading history this badly - or as i supect, not having any real reading of history at all.

>>16924071
and thank god for that

>>16920133
The Enlightenment is quite possibly the most destructive intellectual movement of all time. Its effects on European civilization are something that only recently, with an influx of Muslim immigrants untainted by the Enlightenment, have the great powers of Europe begun to rectify.

The Jacobins were filth and trash and I long for the day when every single thing they have ever built in France gets smashed, and broken, and ruined, and torn down.

Including the Arc de Triomphe. I would love to see a wrecking ball taken to the Arc de Triomphe. Smash it to rubble and build a church in its place. Long live the King and long live the Pope.

>>16924816
Thank you for the support, anon, but it's your duty as a Christian to protect democracy.
Long live the Pope.

>>16922924
Louis XIV tried to help the poor, he just didn't do it fast enough to save his head.

>they walked through the tuileries, where they came upon some children playing ball: 'there', said Rousseau, 'that is how i should like Emile to take exercise,' and other similar remarks. but a ball belonging to one of the children happening to strike the philosopher on the leg, he flew into a violent passion and, abruptly leaving his friends, ran after the child with his cane.
t. delacroix

>>16925067
Louis XIV died peacefully without witnessing the regime-ending consequences of his policy. You're thinking of Louis XVI, his grandson.

>>16925203
Based bipolar Rousseau.

>>16925229
>peacefully
you migh want to watch the death of louis XIV

>>16925203
>writes Emile
>abandons his five children to die in an orphanage

>>16925245
I mean he wasn't murdered and died of terribly painful health complications probably caused by a minor misstep, as did most really successful people in that time.

so much simplistic narrative in simple minded people
rousseau didn't do shit. he was one person who wrote some texts 99% of the french didn't read.
fucking philosophers think their silly books somehow influence wars lmao

>>16925274
>you don't need to persuade all ppl
>you only need the top 5%, the rest are npcs
t. napoleon

>>16925281
Rousseau was arguably much less important than Louis' XIV reforms that weakened the remaining feudal basis of the ancien regime system and paved the way for modern bureaucracy. The bourgeois had been slowly rising in power since the 14th century, Rousseau was only a manifestation of that, like many of his Enlightenment friends. The real shift was giving the bourgeois effective control of state affairs and finance, and that's mostly on the Sun King.

>>16922330
The """Enlightenment""" was peak anti-intellectualism, you moronic mongoloid.

>>16925274
why are the peasants chimping?
why, philosophy of course

>>16924144
>literature
Romanticism predates the revolution
>music
Romanticism predates the revolution, music is fun noises not true art
>philosophy
Kant predates the Revolution
>paintings
LMAO art went to shit after the Renaissance

>>16925341
>>literature
>Romanticism predates the revolution
he wrote litterature, not literature

>>16925350
Boileau was not a romantic, he is irrelevant

>>16924068
The revolution would have died without the terror. I agree that some of it was not good, but sine terror was very nuch needed. Robespierre was just too idealistic and started to attack left-wingers with power. That lead to his downfall.

So, why not blame the Pope and aristocracy for that war? And I thought at first you were talking about the war with Britain and Prussia etc... that was the beginning of the end.

>>16922925
>>Spain loses its colonies thanks to Napoleon

that was a good thing lol

t.south american

>>16921539
my terror for you won't be as bad as people say it was either :)

>>16925692
>why not blame people who didn't commit the torture and murder for the torture and murder
Very interesting position you have there, you piece of rotting defecation masquerading as a person

>>16920133
Rousseau is not to blame. It was the virtue signalers who sent thing spiraling out of control.
>Hey he isn't wearing a red hat! Kill him!
>Hey he isn't using our metric calendar with 10 months and 10 days a week! Kill him!
>Hey he isn't using our metric pocket watch with 10 hours a day! Kill him!
>Hey this guy's been real quiet and not cheering during the public decapitations! Kill him!

>>16925832
Why are americans like this?

>>16922168
there are no known universal laws of historical development

>>16920133
None, really. Read Robespierre and Saint-Just.

>>16925832
Holy cringe

>>16925822
They were one of biggest reasons why they had to use terror. The pope was trying to destroy the revolution from 1789. The aristocracy was also trying to sabotage the revolution, so they could take their position as the oppressor of the French people once again.

You say that I am rotten, yet you defend the people whose reign killed more people than the revolution even could.