/lit/ - Literature

>>16924880
self interest is a dead end for most people. you are going to suffer and then you are going to die.

>>16924993
the importance of self intrest is that your morality serves your own goals. Assigning yourself to a moral framework that claims it can be questioned will tell you that you cannot change yourself and that nothing you do matters. the only person intrested in helping you is you and you need a strong personal moral code to justify that.

>>16924880
if you hear someone say they're a Christian there's a good chance they're not
people tend to interpret the bible in a way that suits their preconceived views e.g. catholics
the bible was written by god
if you have any understanding of mathematical probabilities at all then look into Ivan Panins work and into bible numerics
the slave morality argument is rather redundant when you look at atheists and see how virtually all of them are a slave to something materialistic like money or sex or drugs to name a few

guess you've never heard of

A M A K U S A
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T O K I S A D A
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>>16925108
All you need to do is accept Jesus. Why is this so hard to understand?

>>16924880
The bible doesn't condemn self interest. Moses is said to have obeyed God out of self interest and talked directly with him. If he was doing something wrong you would think God would have mentioned it in one of their conversations lol.

>>16925122
Reason, that's why

>>16924880
Of course it is.

The people who wrote these original ideas in ancient times were a step above the rest and in contempt of their ignorance. Its no wonder they wrote ideas pertaining to the latter idiocy in an attempt to correct it.

Imagine being an observer. Actually dont imagine but instead do this during the day. Pay attention to peoples conversations who you know, the arguements they make, etc. You will realise they constantly contradict themselves (even the smart ones, unless they have learned to think and not talk) without realisation and get very angry when you point it out or change their arguement whilst refusing to admit they are changing it, etc.

Is it really any wonder that the people who noticed this chaos enforced a sense of order of the plebs?

>>16924880
Imagine being refuted by Plato thousands of years earlier and being so butthurt that while writing Beyond Good and Evil it comes out like a depressed teenage girl with daddy issues.

>>16924880
Was Nietzsche also correct that Jews invented slave morality and Judaism is the earlier, less perfected version of it?

>>16924880
What is worth learning from a fag who threw public tantrum over some horse getting mistreated? So much for the "ubermensch".

>>16925147
Then accept deconstruction, anon, because implosion's where modern 'reason' leads. Without the social glue that binds reason's a nonstarter; the modern scientific spirit has only been alive for less than 150 years. Is bighting the hand that fed and feeds rational?

>>16924880
christianity isn't relevant, we're all slaves to capital and that's the new christianity. nietzsche's negative theology is commonplace and the norm these days. if you're against christianity you're just a retarded liberal who think he's making progress by fighting religion like this is the fucking enlightenment or some shit. go back to r3ddit

>>16924880
To be a citizen is to be a slave? Nietzsche invented ressentiment then resentfully whined about the religion of his father. How does Nietzsche rate next to Milton, Cromwell, Nelson, or fucking Stonewall Jackson, fiercely independent Christian men? He was just a miserable incel LARPing in the tones of a polemical Emerson on steroids.

>>16925845
Islam is master morality. Jews are just tricky.

>>16926263
Jews aren't 'just tricky,' anon. The level of success they've achieved is no mere result of trickiness. At any rate you do yourself no favors by thinking so and insult the will of Allah at the same time. Grow up, learn to revere your enemy or perish, it makes no difference to me.

Christianity is the ideology of the Jewish underclass from the time when they were under the boots of both their Jewish elders and elites as well as the Romans, so of course it promotes a sort of slave morality where strength and power are seen as evil.

>>16925003
What goals should a person have and why? Without a telos, how can goals exist at all?

>>16926086
Based newfriend

Matthew 5:28 already sidesteps Nietzsche’s entire concept of slave morality, so no, unless he’s talking about a false Christianity which doesn’t pertain to the actual teachings of Christ, he’s wrong. You’d think the son of a preacher would have known the Bible better.

>>16924993
Self-interest is an inherent function of beings. It's not intrinsically-bad. Society operates with mutual self-interest -- quid pro quo, Do Unto Others, etc.

Suffering and death are inherent experiences to living and can't be escaped through any moral framework.

>>16924880
He didn't read father Mariana, so his critics are flawed. Tell me how a slave morality could justify tyrannicide.

>>16924993
anyone who ate bananas suffered and died. dead end.

>>16926813
Even animals

>>16924880
yep. morality, restrictions are for slaves. who owns morality?

>>16925860
Filtered.

>most people I know are secular and atheist
>complete and utter slave like drones
hes been refuted

>>16924880
Nietzsche understood very little about Christianity and Evola of all people exposed this probably better than anyone. He was colored by a very shallow understanding of Christianity by way of Protestantism exclusively and his affinity for the Classical presented him with a dichotomy between an Idealized classicism and German Protestantism of his era. Neither lend themselves perfectly to an understanding of true Christendom.

>>16924993
>taking care of yourself is a dead end for most people
What the fuck are you even trying to say?

>>16927080
>hes been refuted

>>16927100
>Nietzsche understood very little about Christianity

This is the key point that people constantly gloss over. If you've honestly read NT just once it should be completely obvious to anyone who isn't a sub 100 IQ retard that Nietzsche is basically attacking a straw man.

>>16927129
built in cope. "when christianity dies, lets still scapegoat its corpse for thousands of years because we havent reached REAL secularism yet"

>>16927161
>I'm ignorant as to what he meant but he's the one that's coping
uh huh

>>16927187
>broooo the DARK shadow of SLAVE morality will HANG over us for MILLENIA because its so heckin ingrained into our minds dude
aka
>it doesnt matter if we are atheists, our behaviour is the fault of a wandering palestinian carpenter we dont care about or agree with

lovely bit of cope that

>>16927262
All he means is that slave morality will perpetuate after God is dead, which is exactly what you observed in your secular friends. He considers slave morality to have existed before Christianity, after all (starting with the Jews iirc). But keep misunderstanding him if it makes you feel better.

>>16927262
>>16927283
And btw, Nietzsche is not against the existence of slave morality, just in reference to those who are above it by nature. The "we" in his statement is not referring to humanity at large.

>>16924880
>all these christfaggots unable to make the distinction between christianity as religion in church and christianity as moral philosophy
can't tell if it's deliberate mendacity (as is the christcucks nature) or genuine stupidity.
anyways Nietzsche was right, he understood christianity's metaphysical core and that's all he spoke about. anybody who thinks he was referring to any specific sect, any one church, either doesn't understand or is coping. Anyone who genuinely thinks you need to identify as a christian or otherwise believe in god to be a christian moralist is retarded and beyond saving.
In short: no amount of lying, coping, or misrepresenting is going to make Nietzsche any less correct.

he wasn't seeing the big picture. christianity makes more sense from the perspective of cybernetics; it's easier to moderate the behavior of the lowliest members in your group if they're allowed to improve and rehabilitate themselves.
neetche's morality is one derived from the aesthetics of heroism, the most banal form of it.

>>16927158
dude, Nietzsche was closer to Christ than any christian faggot. Nietzsche is the only person who could possibly be my disciple, had that passion inside to withstand sickness of spirit of humans. His chance of stopping the world could be like 0.1%, that's a thousand times bigger that of a regular normal moralising pederast, good person.