/lit/ - Literature

>>16920906
based

>>16920906
me desu

>>16920906

I wanna hear more about Bergson

>>16920906
>arguing with retards on twitter makes you a philosopher

>>16920966
Bergson is a hack

michaelstaedter

>>16920974
Imagine feeling smug as you post this not looking at the other people in the image

>>16920906
>>16920940
Based

>>16920906
>influences
>destiny
Oh no no no no

>>16921030
Are you are a retarded leftist or a retarded fascist?

>>16921039
Neither. I'm also not an entry-level surface-deep political commentator who's too focused on idpol and debating the alt-right.

>>16921085
What do you think he should be focusing on?

>>16920906
I want to understand Schopenhauer, what's his deal about? I want an explanation of his philosophy from someone who actually understands him.

>>16921096
Personally, I like taking the economical approach the best as I feel gaining a proper understanding of those issues grants you a lot more knowledge about the political world. It's more objective than looking at it through the lens of a sociology major or someone who gets floored in debates by Mister Metokur of all people.

swedenborg

>>16921129
You just proved you don't watch him because he takes everything through an economic lens. That's literally his entire shtick.

>>16921129
>You just proved you don't watch him
That's a bad thing? I've seen clips of him and his whole thing seems to be debating retarded alt-righters and occasionally getting his shit tossed in by people who know what they're doing. I wasn't hearing a lot about trade or money and banking in these videos.

>>16921006
I didn’t know wagner was a philosopher, just a Nazi favorite for radio and opera

>>16921144
meant for
>>16921134

I'll give you this, he isn't as retarded as someone like Vaush. That's not a very high bar in their community though

>>16921096
He's a twitch streamer, it would be honestly better for everyone involved if he would just shut up.

>>16921144
>uses the term alt right
>claims others are entry level surface deep

Okie doke

>>16921001
I planned on killing myself until I read Persuasion and Rhetoric.

>>16921144
>>16921149
Why would you post about him if you don't watch him and have no idea what he actually does?

>>16921039
Why are you here if you can't read books? What is there in a one hour of a fucking stream by *destiny* that's worth one hour of actualy political philosophy, say Leo Strauss or Schmitt? I'm not asking you to dislike this guy, but however much you agree with him politically, how can he deserve being among the 8 thinkers who most influenced you? That's what ridiculous.

>>16921151
He has been the most influential person of our times in turning online politics into something of substance.

>>16921163
He said he's watched a little of him. Do you need to go through the entire catalog of a twitch streamer to have an opinion on him?

>>16921158
I'm using the terms people like Destiny uses.

>>16921163
>>16921171
I don't hate Destiny and I know a little bit about what he does, I just think he's a very shitty idea of a political influence because his entire schtick is debating retarded reactionaries and sometimes that even goes wrong because occasionally you'll get a troublemaker on who debates him and turns all of his arguments around on him to make him look like the bumbling neoliberal sociopathic fool he is. He serves his purpose as the gateway 'deradicalizer' to middle of the road people but he doesn't really have much else to offer.

>>16921165
He is actually high iq and extremely well versed in economics, philosophy, politics and the arguments that come with them. He provides something you don't really get from reading political philosophers.

>>16920940
Please tell me what this is from

>>16921188
If you aren't getting a good understanding of economics, philosophy, politics from them, you're clearly not reading good material.

>>16921148
>Wagner
>not the greatest philosopher to ever live

>>16921171
Really? Everyone knows the far right takes refuge in the internet and has more of a relative presence there, and a lot of them do their thinking there, because they are outside of academia and traditional political orgs. Someone like Moldbug probably had much more influence like this than Destiny, whatever you think of him.

>>16921194
it's in the filename
it's called Intolerance
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intolerance_(film)

Not obscure but he doesn’t get even rep because nobody has refuted him. Berkeley is absolutely based and any theist must be an immaterialist

>>16921171
Imagine being this delusional. Nobody cares who this soi guzzling faggot is.

>>16921185
He spends his time talking about actual policy, interviewing politicians, and getting involved in politics. You don't know what you are talking about.

>you'll get a troublemaker on who debates him and turns all of his arguments
Out of the like 4 debates he has lost 3 of them were in 2016 when he was a little baby.

>neoliberal
You keep outing yourself as a retard

>>16921221
he doesn't guzzle soi, he guzzles Jamal's jizz. I'm not even memeing that kid is in a cuck relationship where him and his girlfriend get fucked by men and suck men's cocks.

>>16920906
Subtle troll thread, moving on.

>>16921221
Apparently they do if everyone in the thread is posting about it.

>>16921237
I am unfortunately aware of who he is but i don't think about him 99% of the time and i don't know anyone who actually watches him

>>16921216
Oh shit I've been meaning to watch that, but the clip convinced me to do it ASAP

>>16921240
I refuse to watch e celebs

>>16921240
He gets millions of views and is the biggest name in online politics.

>>16921237
There's a nuance there. Everyone in the thread is triggered about thinking he's a worthwhile intellectual ; only you here thinks he is one.
Nice bait bro, it worked.

>>16920906
Nelson Goodman honestly.

>>16921245
Yet no one here has made an argument of substance.

>>16921245
*triggered by

>>16921244
>the biggest name in online politics.
Source? You got a source? I need a source. Where’s the source?

>>16921039
>r-word usage
it's so depressing how the majority of the community just went back to being ableist the second Destiny started breaking the principles he had been defending for so long. Shit really broke any illusion I had of him as logical thinker and the illusion I had of the community being smarter than others, Destiny will abandon ideals the second he gets too heated and most of the community won't give a shit, especially since he just bans anyone who does.

>>16921255
grow up sensitive idpol retard

>>16921250
What about
>>16921165
>>16921201
>>16921213

>>16921227
Sargoy unironically has more influence than him, even if he failed hard

>out of the 4 debates
Try 15

>You keep outing yourself as a retard
He shills constantly for the status quo.

>>16921255
>Shit really broke any illusion I had of him as a logical thinker
So did most intelligent people when they watched over a minute of his content.

>>16921255
>the illusion I had of the community being smarter than others
I'd respect egirls simps more than this. You must go.

>>16921260
He showed he has no understanding of actual politics or what Destiny does

>>16921237
lol being posted about on 4chan doesn't make you relevant, if that was the case Evola, Guenon, and Moldbug would be house names by now.

>>16921252
The actual biggest name sadly is probably someone like Ben Shapiro because of memes. Then maybe your Young Turks or Steven Crowder.

>>16921264
This is just some right wing retard who is angry that Destiny btfoed their favorite youtuber.

>>16921255
Your fragility is showing and also stunting discussion

>>16921227
>when he was a little baby
he was like 26, how is that a baby?

>>16921276
>right wing
No. Destiny is more right wing than I am.

>>16921274
It’s unfortunate pentagon employee/s aren’t, like the people on unconstrainedanalytics dot org

>>16921280
He wasn't well read in that period. He was just debating to debate. It wasn't until after that he actually went deep into actually understanding politics, philosophy, and economics.

>>16921270
Two of those posts are me, I'm not the guy who said all Destiny did was debate right wingers, or that he was neoliberal, or that he cared too much about idpol. Why are you overlooking my criticism if you really want it? I know this thread is a bait but try to at least go through with it. I'll repeat what I said :
>Everyone knows the far right takes refuge in the internet and has more of a relative presence there, and a lot of them do their thinking there, because they are outside of academia and traditional political orgs. Someone like Moldbug probably had much more influence like this than Destiny, whatever you think of him.
>What is there in a one hour of a fucking stream by *destiny* that's worth one hour of actualy political philosophy, say Leo Strauss or Schmitt? I'm not asking you to dislike this guy, but however much you agree with him politically, how can he deserve being among the 8 thinkers who most influenced you?
You answered that he was well-versed into things and you didn't get these infos from philosophers. This just proves you don't read, as >>16921201 says. Nobody in political philosophy, study of policy-making, sociology, or economics is quoting fucking Destiny. You're not really interesting in those things, you're in for the entertainment.

>>16921281
Being a radical just shows you are a teen whatever your politics are and that you have no understanding of economics or how actual politics work.

>>16921280
26 is young when in context of political conscious, how old were you when you first started to seriously digest the various ideologies and economies? Say it was 18, at 26 you’d be 8 years old

Ashley coffin is far more intellectual, she can really fuel discourse. Now, that she's free of Pe*er Coffin she can really educate on us.

>>16921294
And yet radical movements have very often shaped history.

>>16921295
That's not how it works. Are you American, by the way? I was reading Heidegger at 14.

>>16921301
Every action contributes to history, radical or not

>>16921311
That’s exactly how that works.

>>16921314
By shape I obviously mean "has influenced rather more than others". The French revolutionaries were radicals, abolitionnists were radicals, fascists were radicals, communists were radicals, civil right movements were radical, populists today are considered radical, etc.

>>16921294
My views aren't even that radical. Political ideology isn't limited to a scope of the hard left and outright fascism. You don't need to blindly defend the status quo and try to be as moderate as possible either. Georgism and Distributism, for instance. Not the most topical or popular, but worth taking a look at.

>>16921321
>fascists were radicals
How?

>>16921321
French revolutionaries targeted and killed foreigners/non French that’s pretty cool, right? Viva la revolution

>>16921320
People don't start thinking rationally and reading about history, politics or philosophy at 18. Rather, in their early teenage years.
Unless you're a retarded American.

>>16921335
UI

>>16921321
>civil right movements were radical
snd I'm pretty sure they were reformists, they didn't want to do away with the US, they wanted the US to reform how it handled race.

>>16921329
They killed millions of their enemies, are considered morally evil by most people since, and totally destroyed the state institutions in their native countries and replaced them with theirs.
>>16921332
Yes, that's cool. It's "vive", not "viva", illiterate.

>>16921332
Is that a problem?

>>16921293
I never made the claim that he was an academic just that his arguments are academic approved and he provides an easy way for people to get a general overview of politics, philosophy, and economics. Especially in a way that allows you to discuss and debate these things with a layman.

>Someone like Moldbug probably had much more influence like this than Destiny, whatever you think of him.
I'm talking about in online politics. If you are active in any political communities or follow anyone online involved in politics you will read many posts about Destiny or have seen his debates with someone.

>>What is there in a one hour of a fucking stream by *destiny* that's worth one hour of actualy political philosophy, say Leo Strauss or Schmitt?
Leo Strauss and Schmitt are not gonna give you an understanding of the intricacies of the healthcare system, the effect of Joe Biden's tax policies, discussion about actual current policy etc etc.

>>16921343
Depends who among them. But quite a few were communists or had fringe ideologies, like Nation of Islam, although you could argue these people weren't really part of the Civil Right's movement proper. But you're right, that's a generalization that's too broad.

>>16921335
>he thinks 14 years old are reading principles of political economy
Anon...

>>16921335
It was a number given for examples sake, the point remains and assumes the reader also understands how seniority works

>>16921301
This is said often by larping teens who have no actual understanding of policy.

>>16920906
>we should be talking about
You shouldn't talk about any philosophers because most of you are retarded.

>>16921345
>They killed millions of their enemies
C'mon, killing a bunch of people isn't limited to radicals, were the americans radical for manifest destiny? Was Britain for killing the Tasmanians?

>>16921322
Land Value Tax is status quo

>>16921236
>Subtle

>>16921379

>>16921345
I only speak the King’s English not that nonce nonsense
>>16921349
It’s just to make sure the reactionaries on here don’t think themselves akin to the French revolutionaries, they killed foreigners not opened their borders to them

>>16921194
based illiterate poster

>>16921357
>I never made the claim that he was an academic
I never said you did.
>just that his arguments are academic approved
No. Most things he says, I'm sure of it, are debated by academics. Don't take his word for it. Again, you don't actually take an interest in these things if you think there is such a thing as an academic "science approves" seal.
>he provides an easy way for people to get a general overview of politics, philosophy, and economics
This isn't a board for this. This very thread is about obscure philosophers. We assume you want to put in the work. If not, I think you actually should suspend belief and not have an opinion.
>If you are active in any political communities or follow anyone online involved in politics you will read many posts about Destiny or have seen his debates with someone.
The internet is segregated, Anon. You never hear about the other side. I discovered Destiny maybe a year ago, I'd heard about alt-hype years back. That's because I'm on the other side. You'd need numbers to make a statement like "Destiny is the most influential political youtuber". And even then, the undercurrent influence of Moldbug seems bigger to me. He influenced the entire "alt-right" stuff, their lingo, the "dark enlightenment" people earlier, etc., and even now he's everywhere. I agree that he's less *known* than Destiny though ; if that's your metric, maybe you're right.
>Leo Strauss and Schmitt are not gonna give you an understanding of the intricacies of the healthcare system, the effect of Joe Biden's tax policies, discussion about actual current policy etc etc.
There are people who study these things for a living, and debate them constantly. But I totally agree, it's ok for this type of things to get knowledge through a more general treatment like his. But that's because they're not fundamental. So again, that means you can't put that guy aside actual writers and thinkers. I mean I hope this guy himself doesn't think he's worth being in the top 8 most influential thinkers of all time lel.

>>16921393
Anyone who has read Charles dickens would know this and I wouldn’t be explaining myself

>>16921241
Over a century and still no film has ever surpassed it

>>16921360
Most teenagers in the educated class start reading literature, philosophy and discussing politics seriously with people around them much earlier than that. And I'd argue, most people in European countries period, start at least seriously thinking about those things then.

>>16921375
Outside of Taiwan, where is there a widespread pure land-value tax?

>>16921365
I gave examples, they're all undeniable.
>>16921372
>C'mon, killing a bunch of people isn't limited to radicals
It's not, but it's a factor among others that pushes you to the "extremes" of history.

>>16921393
>It’s just to make sure the reactionaries on here don’t think themselves akin to the French revolutionaries, they killed foreigners not opened their borders to them
This makes no sense, are you sure you phrased this well? A reactionary would approve violence against foreigners rather than open borders.

>>16921423
Do you know what the average zoomer is like?

>>16921450
Last time I took the bus and some sat behind me, they looked like the kids in the fortnite dance video, except they were joking about Stalin and communism. They were probably talking about it stupidly, but being interested in politics in your early teens is normal in France.

>>16921462
I mean, that happens a lot here in America too. However, there's a difference between spouting off memes about communism versus actually reading insightful political literature and philosophy related to it.

>>16920966
I was just about to mention him.

>>16921473
I think that's a normal start. That's starting to gain an interest in something. They'll probably read the Communist Manifesto then, or something. Sadly everyone is arrogant and ignorant at the beginning.

>>16921405
>No. Most things he says, I'm sure of it, are debated by academics. Don't take his word for it. Again, you don't actually take an interest in these things if you think there is such a thing as an academic "science approves" seal.
By academic approved I mean academic consensus. No economist is gonna debate anything written in an Econ101 textbook. The stuff in there is universally agreed upon. If you read the IGM panel you can see what economists agree upon. My point is that he isn't some political larper who is getting his info from twitter posts and youtube videos but is saying stuff generally agreed by academics to be right.
>This very thread is about obscure philosophers.
I know I made the thread but I'm not the one who brought him up.
>That's because I'm on the other side.
lol
>numbers
Name the biggest names in online politics who have not mentioned, debated, or had the communities collude with Destiny
>the undercurrent influence of Moldbug seems bigger to me.
Yet you search Moldbug on youtube and the videos have 10k while Destiny gets millions of views and millions of dollars. Who has the bigger influence? I've spent a lot of time everywhere including this board and I've only seen Moldbug come up on /lit/ sometimes. I've never seen it on /pol/
> if that's your metric, maybe you're right.
I wrote all the above before I read this and too lazy to delete
> So again, that means you can't put that guy aside actual writers and thinkers.
It's just a list of people of who have influenced me the most.

>>16921428
Status quo idea I mean. Milton Friedman, Joseph Stiglitz, Robert Solow, William F Buckley etc etc.

>>16921423
This is America. No one reads even in school

>>16921129
Metokur is an entertaining troll and nothing more. He’s great if you only take him at face value, which he encourages you to do.

>>16921513
There's a big difference between a popular alternative idea versus the status quo of what's actually in practice.

>>16921554
Most things that have academic consensus in economics and politics are not status quo of what's actually in practice you realize that right? LVT is moderate is my point.

>>16921490
>By academic approved I mean academic consensus.
There is consensus with regards to what's "written in an Econ101 textbook", that's true. But there is hardly a significant enough consensus with regards to anything that really matters, like policies or general theories of things like (say, in economics), prices or markets. You need to do your own homework if you want to have an opinion on these.
>I know I made the thread but I'm not the one who brought him up.
I still think this thread is a bait. If it's not, you should've anticipated this development frankly.
>lol
To me, you're the political retard, Anon. I'm just being polite here, you could try the same.
>Who has the bigger influence?
Putting aside the metrics question, I admit I may be wrong still, I'm willing to concede this point. But I'd also say that maybe the influences behind the "alt-right" and stuff like that is more diffused between a few actors. Taking a just two of them together, like, say Sargon of Akkad and Richard Spencer (both retards imo), you have more total influence on politics than with Destiny. But this is really just my impressions.
>It's just a list of people of who have influenced me the most.
Well, then that's the debate between personal taste and whether or not it should be based on more objective facts. I tend to think if we're talking philosophy and matters related, there's some amount of objectivity, and you can criticize someone for taking too much of an interest in something you think is not *that* important.

>>16921587
>There is consensus with regards to what's "written in an Econ101 textbook", that's true. But there is hardly a significant enough consensus with regards to anything that really matters, like policies or general theories of things like (say, in economics), prices or markets. You need to do your own homework if you want to have an opinion on these.
If it's something that doesn't have academic consensus then you can have opposing academic positions that can be discussed but for a good chunk of policies there is enough consensus that you can handwave 99% of political positions on the specific topic.
>To me, you're the political retard, Anon. I'm just being polite here, you could try the same.
Unless I'm mistaken you are the one who said you were closer to far right camp which is unjustifiable if you are trying to be taken seriously.
>you have more total influence on politics than with Destiny.
I'm being a bit hyperbolic but I still think Destiny is someone who comes up more than anyone else especially in all communities. I think it's because Destiny is the debatebro who debates everyone and anyone which has more reach across communities.
>for taking too much of an interest in something you think is not *that* important.
What is not important

>>16920906
Kid in the up left is funny. He shits on the alt-right casually.

>>16920906
My boy Rick is slept on. His lectures are kino, but Self Under Siege is the real get.

>>16920906
>Leonard Cohen
Based. He should have won the Nobel over Dylan.

>>16921741
True

>>16920906
Don Nicolás Gómez Dávila.

He's the CHADEST PHILOSOPHER EVER.

Look him up pls.

>>16921755
Based. Him and Gustavo Bueno are two of my favorites.
I must also thank Alberto Buela for showing me the work of Gómez Dávila.

>>16920906
roger scruton is a brainlet

>>16921780
Random anon or academic philosopher who has 44 entries in the SEP. Who is the brainlet

>>16921767
https://elmanifiesto.com/tribuna/5499/nicolas-gomez-davila-elogio-del-reaccionario.html

>>16921679
>but for a good chunk of policies there is enough consensus that you can handwave 99% of political positions on the specific topic.
Well that's where we disagree. First of all you can discuss consensus. I accepted your point with regards to the Econ101 book, because what's in those is actually consensus based on actual, fair and old discussions of those topics. But, are you in academia? Many beliefs that are common in the academic world are based on shoddy methodology and data or just plain old bias. There is consensus that's informed well enough, and consensus that's not. Incidently to find out which is which you have to actually get into it, not just blindly trust people because they have a degree.
>Unless I'm mistaken you are the one who said you were closer to far right camp which is unjustifiable if you are trying to be taken seriously.
I'm not that guy but yes I'm far right. I don't think anyone who think Destiny is worth spending hours watching instead of opening books should be taken seriously. But here's an idea ; watch Giuli333's video on nationalism if you don't get why someone could rationally believe this (since you don't read books).
>I'm being a bit hyperbolic but I still think Destiny is someone who comes up more than anyone else especially in all communities. I think it's because Destiny is the debatebro who debates everyone and anyone which has more reach across communities.
Ok, fair enough.
>What is not important
Destiny. Destiny isn't important. This is enough talk about Destiny for tonight, incidently. What a stupid name anyway.

>>16920906
I see Hume threads on here every day. There are five up rn

>>16921755
Finally some anon with great taste! Cheers!

>>16921805
>but yes I'm far right
Why shouldn't I just handwave you as a teen larper with no understanding of the real world just like I would a communist

>>16921826
Stop sameposting Gomez no one is gonna click on your retarded blog

>>16921827
Why should you? Read what I write and just judge from that. You're really smug for someone who watches twitch streamers.

Bachelard.

>>16921839
>You're really smug for someone who watches twitch streamers.
Is it really that big of a surprise?

>>16920906
RG Collingwood

>>16921839
I don't need to read what an anarchokiddie has to say about politics. Being far right is even more larp than being a communist. It's just as utopian and devoid of substance.

>>16921836
What the hell are you talking about?

>>16921836
?

Redditpleb fuck off

>>16921856
I want to buy the Atalanta Edition of his Escolios so bad brahs

>>16921855
Oh I get it now lmfao. You actually ARE Destiny. Trapped within the Liberal mind prison. Hate to see it.

>>16921868
You are delusional and you need to seek help. You should hit up Destiny and talk to him he might help you with that.

>>16921855
If I stumble upon an anarchist and he actually says interesting things I'll instantly update my judgement of him accordingly, eventhough I think anarchists in general are dumb.
Your accusation of utopianism is stupid. Someone could desire the most difficult thing to realize imaginable and be very pragmatic in getting close to it IRL. It doesn't matter how much your goals align with the current order, what makes you pragmatic is how adequately you act in the world to efficiently get closer to them. There are utopian moderates, who think writing a lot on Twitter and voting for the right candidate is gonna solve all the problems they see in the world.

>>16921755
I declare he's BASED.

>>16921885
The far right is extremely fringe why do you think it's anything more than a larp? I take it you aren't American.

>>16921878
I'm not the guy you were shit flinging with. I don't need any manlet philosophy regurgitated at mach 3 to develop my worldview. I read books and participate in Cartesian reflection and reconstruction like any reaosnable man over six feet tall would.

>>16921885
Grandpa Bookchin deserves some love. Eco-Socialism with a minimal horizontally governed democratic state. It's the future.

>>16921933
Bookchin is posted a fair bit

>>16921913
Why do you think something being fringe means it's a LARP? You can be fringe and act rationally in furthering your beliefs. You can have mainstream beliefs and be delusional about who you are and what you can do.
But no, I'm not American. I guess in Europe the far-right has a stronger institutional presence. On the other hand, there are laws on public speech and things of the sort that are harsher, so I don't know how to judge whether or not it's more or less fringe.

>>16921950
I don't know about Euro politics to talk about it maybe in Eastern Europe or something far right can have some legitimacy but here in the US it has no basis in reality. I'm sure it's the same over there because most of the far right parties I've seen in Europe have less than 15k members.

>>16921941
Well damn.
Have an ultra rare William Godwin

>>16921974
First of all, do you admit that being in the minority and having little influence doesn't mean you're LARPing? I'll repeat : you can have mainstream beliefs and be delusional about who you are and what you can do. You can have fringe goals and be reasonable about what you can do to get closer to them.
Anyway, number of members doesn't matter to judge where a population stands politically. What matters are what ideas are common. Two quarters of French people are opposed to economic immigration and to current migration policies for exemple ; on that particular subject, they significantly align with the far right, especially if you keep in mind at least a good 10% of French citizen are northern and sub-Saharan Africans. Say you care a lot about that, you're both far right and can reasonably expect reaching your goal if you aim in that direction (say, by building a single-policy advocacy network around that particular issue, for example).

>>16922016
Your ideology is not politically feasible in anyway. None of your policies could ever be passed (if you even have any). You would never have a politician voted in. None of your positions have any academic backing or consensus. You have literally nothing. No one takes you guys seriously because none of your arguments hold up in anyway. Only speaking for the US because again there might be some shithole countries that have enough low iq people to be far right but I don't think so based on party numbers.

>>16922016
For immigration again not a Euro and I don't know Euro policy but people wanting less immigration does not mean they subscribe to any of the policies the far right advocate for. It's like a communist saying hey look liberals want more immigration that means communism is popular

>>16922045
You're wrong on all accounts. My policy preferences were the standard throughout history, we can expect to revert back to them, they're pragmatic, they're convincing, and you are clearly the clinically retarded one as you've proven throughout the thread by being unable to defend your meme internet celebrity. Incidently, if we're in the game of just asserting things, I'll assert I've fucked you mom last night.

>>16922045
>None of your positions have any academic backing
In the context of politics and economics, this really isn't the defense you think it is.

>>16922060
Slavery in the US was standard but slavery isn't coming back anytime soon and it's a larp to think so. It's the same logic. It's over my friend. It's never coming back. You don't have the numbers.

>>16922045
You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.
>Only speaking for the US because again there might be some shithole countries that have enough low iq people to be far right but I don't think so based on party numbers.
The irony. Especially going for IQ to turn against this. Countries in the far east with much higher IQ than muttoids have similar policies to what the previous anon describes. That also takes care of the "unfeasible" line, which is a non-argument in the first place.

>>16922056
People being opposed to economic migration by itself only aligns with policy proposals and an actual history of implementing them on the part of the far right in most if not all developped countries.

Hunter Hunt-Hendrix
ContraPoints

>>16922064
It kinda is. No one takes flat earthers seriously and you are the political equivalent of flat earthers. Even talking to you is a waste of time. The correct thing would be to laugh and point at you. I'm bored though.

>>16921130
Philosopher lol

>>16922082
The difference between that and politics is that political and economic science are some of the most dismal sciences especially from a standard 'academician' and their perspective. Neoclassical economics is profoundly hogwash

>>16922073
So why do are the far right political parties so low if all these people are far right?

>>16922071
Far-right people are those who have the most children in western countries, and political alignment are statistically transmitted within family. There is a long term trend of native populations moving to the right in Europe. People move to the right in times of stress. People hate more and more the institutions that are typically defending the status-quo and the left ; medias, political class, etc. Ethnic tensions have been rising ever since the 80s in Europe with no sign of reversing, and matters related are more and more central to political alignment ; the old left-right dialectic has even concretely fallen apart in France as far as institutional parties are concerned.
I'm pretty confident it's coming back. Even if it wasn't, one could still act rationally to get closer to it, by empowering more moderate rightist views.

>>16922093
That's exactly what a flat earther would say. Just like a communist who says economics is just a bourgeois trick trust me the planned economy will work this time. You are literally doing that lol

>>16922073
>People being opposed to economic migration by itself only aligns with policy proposals and an actual history of implementing them on the part of the far right

The USSR had very strict immigration/emigration rules. How Far-Right were they?

>>16922104
>anyone that criticizes neoclassical status quo is a marxian
Good laugh, mate

>>16922100
So why aren't those numbers growing in the party? It's gonna happen one day real soon. Just keep praying

>>16922119
Your reading comprehension is terrible. Reread what I wrote a few times over and come back

>>16922096
I said they were far-right on immigration. I don't think French people are to the right on economic issues, for exemple, or even ones of mores and culture. The obvious point is also that medias have an obvious influence on how people percieve parties and candidates, and the media is statistically left-wing. Lastly, political parties may be shit even if their ideas align with those that are dominant in the population. Marine Lepen being notoriously unprepared before her second-turn debate had a big influence on her getting a bad score, as most analyst pointed out. Meanwhile Salvini did well in Italy, for exemple.
>>16922112
You conveniently just cut "in most if not all developped countries." But you're right, communist countries had a different political system that doesn't fit western dichotomies as well. And the left/right wing distinction breaking up in the western world too.

>>16922096
They are not "so low". In many countries they are the biggest political parties. People also often vote for candidates of other parties for other reasons.
I understand you're a retarded American brainwashed into your bizarre party system but things don't happen like that here.

>>16922104
You do absolutely nothing but make vague disparaging analogies, which I guess was your point in refusing to consider any other view in the first place.
To continue on your trail. this type of end-of-history triumphalism is almost equal to that of marxists.

All "philosophy" threads that are not about a book should be deleted. This thread is everything that is wrong with /lit/

Aren't white Liberals just American consumers? Go buy some coffee harvested by a child in the third world an go back. Doesnt this Destiny kid have a subreddit you can jerk off in? This is a literature board you scrub. Post Destiny's book and discuss it....oh wait.

>>16922071
There are more slaves today than at any point in history

>>16922146
I'm heavily invovled in it and you're right. My apologies.

>>16922141
I don't think being anti-immigration is a far right policy and if we say it is for the sake of argument that doesn't mean that any far right party is ever going to gain any ground or that the policies of the center right are ever going to move further to the right. Again it's like saying since the communists and the center left agree on a policy that the center left is going to be communist or support communism. It's nothing but a cope

>>16922146
To think it's all because of 1 person OP happened to include in their image.

Sage

>>16922145
>They are not "so low". In many countries they are the biggest political parties. People also often vote for candidates of other parties for other reasons.
>I understand you're a retarded American brainwashed into your bizarre party system but things don't happen like that here.
Can you name a country where far right policies and politicians are actually a thing? Again I said I'm sure some Eastern European shitholes have this but I don't know.

>>16922145
>You do absolutely nothing but make vague disparaging analogies, which I guess was your point in refusing to consider any other view in the first place.
What am I supposed to do when someone is a fringe heterodox that has no academic support? Why should I take someone like that seriously?

>>16922166
Sneed

Imagine being inspired by a retard like Destiny
>>16922162
It's not. Communists were very anti immigration from Marx until only a few years ago.

>>16922175
Why don't they just have two parties that appear opposed but work toward the same end goal like America?

>>16922155
Are you retarded or are you doing this on purpose? Do you really need me to explain to you the argument?

>>16922192
Maybe they would make more than $200 a year if they did that

>>16922209
So why pretend to care aboit freedom of you type just want an authoritarian Neoliberal government but we vote every 4 years to replace the neoliberal?

>>16922162
I listed all the reasons why far right parties are going to gain ground (they already have in Italy, Spain, and France btw), and that the policies of the center are going to move further to the right (they already have too, politicians now know that immigration waves like the one of 2015 are dangerous to their careers and that they need to build European geopolitical independance including through a bigger military program, something which is conducive to far-right realpolitik in the future). I'll list them again :
>Far-right people are those who have the most children in western countries, and political alignment are statistically transmitted within family. There is a long term trend of native populations moving to the right in Europe. People move to the right in times of stress. People hate more and more the institutions that are typically defending the status-quo and the left ; medias, political class, etc. Ethnic tensions have been rising ever since the 80s in Europe with no sign of reversing, and matters related are more and more central to political alignment ; the old left-right dialectic has even concretely fallen apart in France as far as institutional parties are concerned.
I could go on by the way. To me it's pretty clear ; to me, you're coping, considering you live in a country that recently had a sharp move to the right among a significant minority of white people recently and it's affected public debate so much people like Destiny launched their careers over it.
>>16922175
>Can you name a country where far right policies and politicians are actually a thing?
What do you mean, "a thing"? Salvini was in head of state in Italy, the Front National has mayors in towns and deputees at the assembly, etc. It's everywhere.

>anything that isn't anglo-neoliberal is on the same level as flat Earthers
Who else can't wait for China to take over already so we don't have to suffer Americans spouting
"""liberal""" ramblings in their arrogant self-assured manner?
I mean it's already happened and keeps happening, covid hysteria has just made the transition that much closer.
Seeing the sycophants of the most anti-intellectual great power in history fall back on academic consensus as a serious argument (especially considering the pathetic state of the dismal science and humanities there) is comical though.

>>16922230
China is actually kinda based. Even if just because they piss off Amerifats. But a Chinese world order will be way better than current bombs of peace. China just cares about trade and only has like 1 military base.

>>16922230
BuT lIbEraLIsM pUlLeD 20000000billion oUt oF pOvErTy

>>16922198
No, I don't want to argue.

>>16922225
>(they already have in Italy, Spain, and France btw)
They went from 10k to 11k in a country of 60 million lol?
>Far-right people are those who have the most children in western countries,
So white genocide isn't real
>political alignment are statistically transmitted within family. So why are generations so opposed politically?
>There is a long term trend of native populations moving to the right in Europe.
Got some stats?
>People move to the right in times of stress.
Yes boogyman works great in times of stress.

This thread is missing actual literature so I'll help with the drought

>>16922259
Holy shit retard why are you still arguing? Not him but give up, liberalism has clearly failed. Now go read a book.

>>16922230
Why are commies and fascists so equally retarded

>>16922281
Everyone in this country being in the 1% of the world is a failure?

>>16922282
>everyone against me is a run of the mill communist/fascist, there are absolutely no other unique beliefs in the world

>>16922282
You don't know what either of those things are.

>>16922293
Most things heterodox can be handwaved simply because it's heterodox especially if it's self proclaimed "far right". It's no different than being a Marxist-Leninist. I would do the same thing if one was here.

>>16922306
>handwaved
Your dismissal to anything outside of the mainstream is very telling.

>>16922259
>They went from 10k to 11k in a country of 60 million lol?
Why do you care about party membership? This isn't a significant metric outside of the US, illiterate burger. Front National gets more and more votes each election, they're at around 20%, more than 10 million people during the last election.
>So white genocide isn't real
I said far-right people have the most children, I didn't say white people, certainly not white people overall, you retard. So this is the impressive intellect of the american celebrity worshipper?
>Got some stats?
As for transmission of political beliefs : https://www.jstor.org/stable/10.1017/s0022381609090719?seq=1
And for Europe moving to the right, well, Salvini, Vox, the Lega Nord didn't exist before. These parties are influential, much more than any far-right parties in these countries were since the mid 70s at least.
>Yes boogyman works great in times of stress.
Or maybe they realize what's important and focus on that? Let's play Uno : you've got some stats and studies on your boogeyman explanation?

>>16922282
Would've happened under any political system that *ahem* "Inherited" one of the largest untouched landmasses on the planet and then *ahem* "asked" people to slave away producing cotton to sail to Britaint. You're claiming the inheritance of Imperialism as if it was Liberalism that made it possible.

>>16922239
China obviously has its issues but their leadership will be welcomed compared to anglomutt tyranny. It might get ugly for direct neighbors (Vietnam, etc) but Europeans have everything to gain from America becoming less relevant.

>>16922259
Virtually no one belongs to political parties here (France). Literally less than 1% of the electorate, and that's using numbers communicated by the parties themselves.

>>16922277
Based. I'm a distributist myself and this board is seriously lacking good third positionist discussion.

>>16922302
I don't know what a stateless, classless, moneyless society in which the means of production are held in common is? I don't know about the economic calculation problem, Paul Cockshott, Marx's response to Bakunin, Lenin's writings on state capitalism?

>>16922313
It's very telling to a flat earther who is angry that all the data is against him

>>16922306
How do you idiots justify to yourselves the "handwaving" of dissident opinion. Sounds like cut and dry anti-intellectualism. Our country is neither Liberal Democratic or Capitalist to be honest. Yet you hump the leg of your masters on command and display your pride in your unknowing state. Shameful.

>>16922291
As always with your ilk, the focus is always on economics and not the complete destruction of morality, community, religion etc. brought about by liberalism.

>>16922342
>muh data
There are plenty of books that tear apart neoclassical shit and have solid backing and mathematics behind them. Only shills and naive econ undergrads would bother to defend it at this point

>>16920906
>Who's are some obscure philosophers we should be talking about?
Hola amigo.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SIaIZA3pgE

>>16922350
Or, let's go from the left. He doesn't give a shitbor acknowledge that this Wealth was built due to slavery and theft. Imperialism is profitable. Liberal, Communist, Fascist. It doesn't matter, whoever owns the global economy will be the wealthiest.

>>16922291
With growing rates of depression, suicide, especially amoung the youth. With all this incredible (not being ironic) economic and technical progress, bringing a great increase in comfort and physical health people aren't more happy. Can you imagine how much everything else must have degraded for it to even out? Read that https://ideasanddata.wordpress.com/2020/07/08/psychological-well-being-and-societal-progress/ if you want data on it, but it's obvious to anyone looking. Everyone is repulsed by the direction western countries, especially the US, are going.

>>16922317
I shouldn't talk about European politics because I don't have the context to anything your saying. I would need to see stats showing what Europeans agree with far right principles. Do you have those?

>>16922363
I'm a leftist but Nick is a far better debater than Destiny. More honest as well.

>>16922350
How is the far right gonna bring that back? You gonna force people to believe in God? Force people to get off the computer and go to the bowling alleys?

>>16922334
No, you don't.

>>16922358
Post some

>>16921001
hes great. shows tragic completion of cartesianism

>>16922375
I didn't and won't say Europeans agree with far-right principles. My point earlier, you can read back on it, was that in France they agree on a hard stance on immigration that's classified to the far-right. My other point was, indeed, that they are moving to the right, but they're not majority far-right at all. Certainly not with regards to issues of mores, for exemple. Honestly I could look up stats but it's 1AM here and I'm going to bed. But I think with the precisions above you can at least believe what I'm saying is reasonable. Although not stats, there is the fact that far-right parties have more and more votes each elections on average since the beginning of the 2000s in France, since the 2008 crisis in southern European countries, since brexit (though maybe earlier? I don't remember) in England, with the 2015 migration wave with the AfD in Germany, etc.

>>16922380
He literally doesn't believe dinosaurs are real

>>16922390
>How is the far right gonna
Stopped reading your post right there

>>16922390
I never said I was far right. But it's telling how you ignore the flaws of liberalism and just focus on "muh right wingers".

>>16922401
Debunking Economics is a great one

>>16922421
How is the non far right Tradcon world gonna bring that back

>>16922411
Did I ask about his beliefs anon? I simply(correctly)stated that he's a better debater.

>>16922434
>Debunking Economics
Steve Keen had been debunked to shit which is why he has to rely on patreon to survive. You can post someone more serious than that hack

>>16922445
I'm a leftist(fascist) and not a traditionalist. But again it's telling how you just ignore the failures of liberalism.

>>16922464
Can you tell me how you are gonna bring it back? It's not a hard question

>>16922451
What claim of his was thoroughly "debunked", then?

>>16922486
All of them go read the papers on it. I know you don't believe anything that was posted in a journal though

>>16922493
Lmao you've got to be taking the piss. If not post these papers

>>16922470
Again fag, this is about your ideology not mine. You also ignored the other posters who displayed decaying mental health and imperialism tied to your ideology so go reply to them.

>>16922464
Are you well read? Do you have some book recommendations besides Sorel, Gentile, and Gregor?
>>16922470
Not him but by literally telling people what to believe in. Most if not all of peoples actions are orchestrated with the use of propaganda (news media, television, advertising) and all one has to do is control this and thus control what people are thinking about. The media is a tool and it should be used properly.

>>16922470
Why do you like monopolies and unaccountable corporations creating 90% of law? If you support the current state of Liberalism in America, you should probably look into Fascist economics.

>>16922500
So you have nothing

>>16922510
No, I've thought this out. But like I keep saying this is about your shitty ideology.

>>16922506
>Not him but by literally telling people what to believe in. Most if not all of peoples actions are orchestrated with the use of propaganda (news media, television, advertising) and all one has to do is control this and thus control what people are thinking about. The media is a tool and it should be used properly.
This has to be a joke

>>16922507
>Fascist economics
Really no such thing, in fascist ideology the economy is "whatever works". Some fascists wanted full socialization of the means of production, others were corporatist, and others believed in private enterprise.

>>16922507
It's only like if you see politics the through the lens of a 16 year old anarchist

>>16922518
>This has to be a joke
This is not an argument.
People are cattle and they are easily controlled.
Read propaganda by Edward Bernays or watch the BBC documentary "Century of the Self"

>>16922523
He probably means corporatist then

>>16921165
(((Leo Strauss)))

>>16922523
So it's typically a mixed economy with strong corporate ties right?
>>16922528
Oh really dumbass. It's reality.
https://publicintegrity.org/politics/state-politics/copy-paste-legislate/you-elected-them-to-write-new-laws-theyre-letting-corporations-do-it-instead/

>>16922537
Yeah Edward Bernays did parades with cigarettes that means we can literally cure depression and make everyone believe in God by playing advertisements

>>16920906
John Searle

>>16922507
t. Doesn't know what corporatism means
Think syndicalism, not "corporatism" in the Amerifat sense.

>>16922553
>we can literally cure depression and make everyone believe in God by playing advertisements
Yes.
But of course you're going to have to fix the problem that causes peoples' depression and nihilism too.

>>16921188
I could wring that basedboy Destiny's neck with one hand.

Ok bedtime Nazis hope you enjoy Liberal democracy for the rest of your lives because the larp ethnostate is never going to come.

>>16920906
Unironically me.

>>16922553
Haha you're so lost dude. No wonder it's easy for you to justify the status quo. Read Manufacturing Consent next. Ad culture and all of media from books to tv to movies are produced by the same interests. They guide American policy. If you don't believe me look at any independent polls on American public policy. The public supports policy that doesnt resemble either party. Our democracy is a sham. They foundbout how to create dictatorship without a dictator and you little faggots question nothing and parrot some manlets talking points while rejecting anyone else who actually is informed and gives a shit.

>>16922578
No one in this thread mentioned ethnostates, just pure economic talk

>>16922470
It wouldn't be very hard using the same means used to bring the current mores, through official curriculum, money grants, legal actions against dissidents, etc. Merely having state power grants a lot of legitimacy.
Most revolutions, or even much slower trend, were spearheaded by a small minority of the population, with most people taken by osmosis. Violence isn't even needed outside fringe cases.
Do you really think most current day anglos independently reached a neoliberal position? It was "suggested" to them, in part by the peculiar conditions of the given population at that time, in much larger part by social shaming and engineering.

>>16922578
Lol this is liberal cope. People are clearly sick of your bullshit. Most Euro zoomers I know are far right or communists.

>>16922563
I understand perfectly well as I've read Gentile and Sorel, yet in practice these corporations never play fair anon. They never will either.

>>16922550
If by "corporate" you mean trade unions then yes. Fascists rejected dialetical materialism so socialism is optional. Some still were socialist, many fascists were reformed Marxists.

>>16922595
>Most Euro zoomers I know are far right or communists.
Zoomers are larpers everywhere. They grow out of it. Both sides.

>>16922598
Well you clearly didn't understand them if you're posting this shit

>>16922599
I understand. I've read the books anon. In practice it seems to fall apart.

>>16921218
There is an explicit refutation of Berkeley's idealism in Kant's Critique of Pure Reason.

>>16922607
Except it didn't and living standards improved tenfold in Italy.

>>16922607
How did it follow apart in Italy?
(Btw the main issue in italy was that they were not corporatist enough, and mussolini regretted not being more radical)

>>16922603
Nah, I think you're off mark this time. The internet created a space outside of media indoctrination for long enough that Liberlism wll die in our lifetime. You get to choose. Socialism, or Fascism.

>>16922613
Kant has never refuted anyone but himself.

>>16922618
I think the zoomers will grow up and realize they like their iPhones and Instagram too much aren't ready to throw away their lives for their political beliefs which are more of a fashion statement than something they are willing to die for.

>>16922616
>>16922617
He let the corporations and their banks keep too much authority. The banks bought out the unions with useless currency during the depression.

>>16922407
I feel like I’m the only person who found some disconnect between the implications in his book and his death. The philosophy is still obviously pessimistic in dealing with that cartesian inheritance and it implies a tragic state of affairs I definitely agree but I really don’t believe it was the merging of theory of practice that ended his life even though everyone reads it that way.

>>16922631
They'll realize they don't need brainwashing devices constructed by child labor and infanticide in Congo's cobalt mines.

>>16922631
>>16922603
That's not a zoomer issue, it's a normalfag issue. I'm a zoomer and I'm pretty well versed with my beliefs and I'm so caught up with reading about history and philosophy I've isolated myself from others.
Eventually I will have to turn my thought into action.

>>16922645
I don't think they give a shit about that kinda stuff. That's just fancy stuff to put on twitter but if you actually say are you willing to die for the African children no one is going to say yes.

>>16921188
bait

>>16922645
Not the moron infesting this thread but I doubt that.
They will support this kind of tasks (nothing wrong by the way) while rejecting the current organizational and legal basis overseeing those tasks.

>>16922635
>Btw the main issue in italy was that they were not corporatist enough, and mussolini regretted not being more radical
Also bank of italy was state owned lmao, after allies came in they established their own central bank. Banking is literally the whole reason ww2 happened.

>this is the state of modern discourse
feels bad man

>>16922603
What's the matter millennial, not apathetic and nihilist enough for you?

>>16920906
thoreau isnt obscure but i like him

>>16922656
Are you really willing to die because you might but likely won't get the trad life or save the african babies?

>>16922670
Millenials are largely in the same boat. Gen X are the current power holders (boomers still have the family wealth but are now almost all in retirement), they are the most nihilistic generation.

>>16921868
sniped

>>16921365
based non zoomeroid that understand politics
>>16921301
cringe zoomeroid

>>16922701
And yet
>The French revolutionaries were radicals, abolitionnists were radicals, fascists were radicals, communists were radicals, civil right movements were radical, populists today are considered radical, etc.

>>16922676
I don't want a "trad life" but I do want to live a simple life by the time I'm in my 50s and I want my children to grow up in a society where they're not seen as cattle to have value extracted from.
I am too far removed from the African children to truely be able to empathize with them, however it's a problem of overproduction and our consumer society that they suffer the way they do.

After we replace the current profit motive and work towards virtue, I think society will marginally improve for everyone.

The biggest problem right now is that states are basically controlled by privately owned banks. Not this manufacturered idpol shit.

Me

>>16922728
Lol

>>16922719
>no dad my strasserist-neo-feudalism ideology is not utopian. they called the french revolutionaries utopian too!

>>16922658
Not surprised that Liberals don't care about petty matters like child labor or slavery. They just care about muh consoomer goods and GDP

>>16922737
Nice strawman faggot

>>16922720
How are you gonna radically change the economy without crashing it? How do you deal with capital flight? The loss of industries? It would literally be a worldwide economic collapse and a string of deadly wars. How is your system feasible?

>>16922737
>talking to your dad about politics

>>16922749
>It would literally be a worldwide economic collapse and a string of deadly wars.

Good.

>>16922720
Wait. Trad zoomers and socialists agree on something? Just take the Socialism pill anon

>>16922749
I'm neutral here but capital flight is something you just forbid, it's really not that hard. The problem is more an end to the *influx* of capital, and foreign trade in case of embargo.

>>16922744
I'm talking about people with Marxist-Leninist in their bio. 95% of those guys still buy everything with child labor in it even though they don't have to. They wouldn't lift a finger if the revolution started and if you told them they couldn't use the internet for a year they wouldn't want the revolution.

>>16922755
Bro. Fascism IS socialism. We agree with you on like 90% of things.

>>16922749
I have an idea. Maybe hold Apple accountable with their 264 billion in holding you midwit manlet. They could build safer mines, pay the workers enough their children don't have to become chattel to feed some petty western idea of "convenience." Fuck you. People like you are the reason society hasn't improved in 50 years.

>>16922639
Yeah, no actual scholar on Michelstaedter (and yes, they do exist in Italy) says his suicide was caused by his ideology. He clearly just had a lot of personal problems with his family that caused him to kill himself.

>>16922720
idk Anon I kinda want material wealth as well for my (potential) children, I don't value other people as much as them. Why would I want to work improse society marginally for everyone if I can focus on improving it a lot for the people I actually love, admire, sympathize with, etc.?

>>16922745
It's not a strawman though. Literally every retarded utopian ideology uses that argument like that gives the ideology substance lol.

>>16922771
No one is talking about the substance of the ideology, only about whether or not having radical ideas necessarily means you will be historically irrelevant.

>>16922760
How do you forbid it? As soon as there was talk of the french socialists being in power the bourgeoisie took their money and left. Is this gonna be like a secret overnight misson the commies take over and stop the banks before anyone figures it out.

>>16922749
I don't want to radically change the economy, I want money to be issued by the state and banks to be publicly owned.
All economic collapses, like the 2008 recession or shit like Black Tuesday are caused by bankers shortening the money in circulation.
>>16922755
I told you I'm not a trad and I'm not too far removed from being a socialist. I don't think public ownership over the means of production is necessary if workers recieve a good wage and are guarenteed by the state certain standards of living.
>>16922766
Fascism really isn't trad.
>>16922769
I see the nation as an extended family.

Meme thread by a stupid person.
>the Destiny debate
He's said himself that he doesn't read books. If you want to watch a pseud sophist act sophistically, watch Destiny. But, if his ethics are anything to go by (a crude rule utilitarianism), I don't think he's all too serious a person.
>the "who isn't focused on enough" question
Earlier people have mentioned stuff like Michelstaedter. I also think there's a significant amount of analytic philosophy that dies in the universities which nobody here talks about. I rarely hear people discussing the communitarian critique of individualist liberalism or the Pittsburgh School (like Brandom et al).

>>16922767
Yes but now the price of the iPhone goes to $3000. Most twitter users don't care that much

>>16922777
If you have something that is beyond feasible you aren't even worth discussing.

>>16922792
I never said it was trad but he clearly meant by "trad zoomers" to mean any right wing zoomer

>>16922793
Debate him then pussy. You write smug but you know you would get fucked in the ass

>>16922787
Indeed, you need a government to implement it when it'll need it rather than be put in power to do it. It's a big difference. If it happens the first way it can be costless really. If it happens the second, there's the cost you mention ; once it's verboten though, that's taken care of and stops being a further problem.

>>16922792
>All economic collapses, like the 2008 recession or shit like Black Tuesday are caused by bankers shortening the money in circulation.
Really? You're *sure* of that?

>>16922749
That's a retarded conclusion to draw. They make plenty of profit off of their shite and still inflate the price every year. Even if the price goes up, it's worth it. It's not only them either, almost every tech company gets cobalt from similar sources, the "savings" dont pass onto the public, they pass on to the CEO and the Liberal god of the Market. There's more than enough excess capital to ensure children don't have to die for your Twitter addicitin shit lib.

>>16922807
Capital flight is usually how it goes historically then you get brain drain because of the loss of capital then you get embargoed and then you get overthrown because the entire world is capitalist and doesn't want you exist. All of these are pretty hard problems to solve.

>>16922802
Yet again you move the goalpost. Why can't you have an ideal and just work to get closer to it? That's, incidently, how most people see ethics and politics ; you're the fringe one here, who thinks you can only desire what's immediately realizable in its entirety.

>>16922766
Hello brother. If your strong man doesnt commit genocide or instill racial hierarchy than I will carry my rifle beside you. If only it means the working class and wider society can cast away these chains of modern enslavement and work for THEIR needs.

>>16922810
It's an oversimplification but I will say they are all orchestrated.

>>16920906
Proclus, Swedenborg

>>16922795
This is for you.
>>16922813

>>16922821
That's if you abolish capitalism. If you just suppress capital flight in order to realize less extreme goals that don't contradict foreign interests as much, I don't see why you'd get embargo and overthrow. As to brain drain, you can forbid that as well, and I don't see why you'd get that if once put in place the new system is as good or better as the former one.

>>16922805
>debate him
Verbal debate sucks, though. It's more of a test of your wit and quickness to think of arguments than it is of your actual intelligence, erudition, or the quality of your arguments. If I want to seriously debate someone, I'll do it in written form, thank you very much.

>>16922813
You think if there was an ethical laptop anyone would give a shit? Even if the African child didn't have to mine anymore he would still die in a week from drinking sewer water.

>>16922832
This sounds like a low-level conspiracy theory. What's the use of causing such crisis? Why hasn't it been stopped by anyone?

>>16922824
Sure post some feasible policies that could actually be passed

>>16922845
If we're talking America being overthrown is almost laughable. I understand how difficult and astronomical of a feat we're talking, but America IS global capitalism.

>>16922828
National Socialists are not fascists, the only racial violence committed by Mussolini was in WW2 when he enacted laws to remove Jews from positions of influence to appease the Germans.

I think ethnic genocide committed by the Nazis is war propaganda anyway but that's an entirely different story.

Anyone who brands themself a nazi/fascist and one of the things they want to do is committ "ethnic cleansing" they are a retard and should not be taken seriously.

>>16922845
I don't think suppressing capital flight is as easy as you think. If it was why wouldn't countries do it?

>>16922846
You could of just wrote "I would lose" it's much quicker

>>16922852
I and my family use fairphones. The only reason their aren't ethical products is because ad culture never allows people to know what's happening and monopoly keeps competition from occurring. The water can be handled once the workers are making better wages. They might like to invest in things in their communitt instead of paying debt collectors for table salt they borrowed.

>>16922153
god this was the cringiest shit ive read all year holy shit

>>16922856
>What's the use of causing such crisis?
To make money. When you devalue currency and you own all the currency you get to buy assets very cheaply.
>Why hasn't it been stopped by anyone?
>Caesar
>Napoleon
>Lincoln
>JFK
>Hitler
>Gaddafi
They have something in common.

>>16922868
I understand this fairly well. I've read Gentiles work and did like it quite a bit. Its the authoritarian aspect that still gives me hangups, but I can see how hard it would be to protect your socialism without a dictator.

>>16922880
I respect the consistency my larper friend

>>16922892
Authoritarianism isn't necessary for fascism. It was only a product of how much of a shitshow early 20th century Europe was.

>>16922883
lel this is really, really unconvincing.
Also, you don't mean devaluing currency, you mean "over-valuing it" or whatever you say in English, since you talked about a money shortage, a diminution in the supply of liquidity. Are there *any* proof of this happening, of shortening of the money supply before or during crisis and of bankers suddenly acquire a lot of commodities with it before there's an increase of the money supply? How does it fit with the last few crisis where there has been a *lot* of "quantitative easing" every time?

>>16922899
I can do better. I actually wrote my masters thesis on DRC cobalt mining, on a harrowing journey I set out to interview Mgwmbwe Mu'otunal'o Smith and what I uncovered would change me forever.

>>16922904
Then call it what it is. Minarcho-syndicalism

>>16922876
You could have just written, "I'm an underage pseud," it would have been much quicker than creating an entire thread about it.
There's a reason why no serious academic (not an entertainer but someone actually pushing forward the real field of econ, sociology, philosophy, etc.) engages in spoken debate anywhere near as much as written debate. The former is completely useless except as a form of entertainment.

>>16922928
I thought you were going to say there's a reason there are no Liberal intellectuals. You let me down.

Just admit you would look like a fucking retard in front of of tens of thousands of people when he poked holes in everything you said.

>>16922911
Don't take my word for it. I'm not trying to convince you and I'm only just learning about this. Read Rothbard's A Case Against the Fed, though I don't agree with him either because I don't want to return to the gold standard.

>>16922937
Liberalism is literally the dominant ethical perspective in most modern philosophy. Obviously, there have been some people (MacIntyre, Sandel) who have questioned it in recent years, but it's still undeniably the main belief of most intellectuals.

>>16922950
I'm not against you convincing me, but the questions I'm asking are pretty simple. I'd be a bit more cautious in my stance if I was you and wasn't able to answer these.

>>16922954
Socialism is the word you're looking for sir. Liberals and Conservatives are just car salesmen. They lack substance. I don't even care if it's a pipe dream, at least radicals have a deep and interesting intellectual history to immerse themselves in. You greasy assholes just have cheeseburgers amd media propaganda.

>>16922923
It's still fascist because fascist logic says there is no difference between the individual and the state. Also, the government is not the state.

Just admit you only like seeing people humiliated, rather than all equally able to properly phrase their ideas.

>>16922972
Seems like pointless discretion when you have libertarian socialists like bookchin saying citizens form an ecology rather than a society.

>>16921912
>>16921755
>>16921767
checking his works right now

>>16922982
>ecology rather than a society.
What's the difference?

>>16922969
>socialists are dominant in modern academia
No, that's not true. If you go to a philosophy department, it'll be difficult finding anyone who agrees with Marx on anything. It's much more likely that you'll find self-described "liberals" who believe pluralist ethics and believe in either a semi-Rawlsian or other similar theory. (I'm talking about American philosophy, by the way. Sociology is dominated by socialist-types and economics by radical liberal-types (you might call them proto-libertarians if you're an average American), just because of the doctrines of those fields). Indeed, it's tough to name socialist intellectuals who are taken seriously by the mainstream of their field (MacIntyre springs to mind, who else?).

>>16923001
*axioms, not doctrine

>>16922277
>>16922332
Any more about how one can get into the third position?

>>16922996
One implies that all life develops from self-organization and evolutionary cooperation (symbiosis).

The other treats the whole as seperate from the individual.

>>16922689
>Millenials are largely in the same boat.
Maybe late millennials. Early millennials are just a bunch of depressed basedboys.

>>16920906

I can't believe I scrolled through this whole thread looking for obscure philosophers...

>>16923024
This board is in its shittiest state, everything after Guenonposting was unironically downhill from there.

>>16923024
I think Pittsburgh is the way to go. Sellars, Brandom, and McDowell are rarely talked about outside of academia, yet what they write is extremely well-argued and interesting.

>>16923001
Ayy baby I didnt say nothing about Academia. I know Liberalism prevails there(won't let anyone radical in). I meant public intellectuals. You know, the geniuses. Einstein, Hawking, Chomsky, Sartre etc. You know the type. The real deal not some Ben Stein impersonator in a cheap suit talking about GDP and other Liberal fantasies that can be manipulated and abused but only by those in the hallowed spaces of Chicago school dominance that's lead to nothing but misery in the face of decadence.

>>16923024
Have you tried Rick Roderick? He's a favorite of mine that gets little love

>>16922363
holy based

>>16923035
>I meant public intellectuals
>the geniuses
>implying public intellectuals are geniuses
>implying that Kant, Hegel, Marx, Smith, Wittgenstein, etc. weren't geniuses because they weren't popular enough
>implying Herbert Spencer and Bertrand Russell were geniuses because they were well-known
Suicide is an option. Just putting that out there.

picrel is abhinavagupta. He was a major exegete of Kashmir Shaivism, which is a non dual philosophy currently being "btfod" by advaitafag in the newest non-duality thread. He also had theories on aesthetics, and wasn't a monk like other famous hindus.

Don't know much about his nondualism, someone spoonfeed me the philosophy

Not obscure, but here's a random selection not talked about enough on here: Sidgwick, Adam Smith, Bishop Butler, Judith Thomson (RIP), Kamm, Parfit, Leibniz, Lewis, Armstrong, Fine, Williamson, Chisholm, Putnam, Peirce, Carnap, Stalnaker, Fodor, Geach, Malebranche, Arnauld, Scotus, Averroes

>>16923058
>>lists extremely popular authors and philosphers.

So they weren't geniuses because they werent popular?????

>>16923200
Is this the guy that went ro China and trolled the emperor? That was a funny story.

>>16923210
Ya know. Putnam seems to be really influential. Would you happen to know how accessible his works are. He's got one of my favorite "debates" on youtube with Chomps and Pinker(pbuh).

>>16923224
that's bodhidharma

>>16923215
Contemporaneously speaking, I mean. Kant was some random guy who was never popular outside of the philosophical community. None of these people could be named by the average person contemporaneously. Hell, nobody could name Wittgenstein today.

>>16920906
Here are a few

Alexander Bogdanov - inventor of empiricomonism and the theory of tectology which was a forerunner of complex systems theory. He was a communist involved in the Russian Revolution and wrote a scifi novel about a Bolshevik society on Mars.

Niklas Luhmann - a sociologist who developed an intricate grand model based on complex systems theory. He’s notable for being a conservative sociologist in long time dialogue with Habermas.

Emanuele Severino - defended the view that everything went wrong in philosophy after Parmenides, and that our failure to recognize the eternalness of Being is the root of our contemporary nihilism.

Maxine Sheets-Johnston - Has worked together aspects of Merleau-Ponty’s phenomology of the body with embodied cognition theory. Argues that fundamental features of our linguistic capacity derive from our experience of bodily movement as an infant.

And one not obscure philosopher we should talk more about:

Alain Badiou - believes that the belonging/inclusion distinction within Cantor’s set theory inadvertently overcame the millennia long philosophical struggle to deal with notions like parts/wholes, multiple/one etc. Thus mathematics = ontology, and in the language of mathematics we can overcome the paradoxes of the genuinely new coming into Being let to us by Heraclitus and Parmenides.

>>16922363
Based, thanks for posting this

>>16922856
>Why hasn't it been stopped by anyone?
This is such a brainlet question. Most people don't know or don't care it's happening and the people who know will profit from such knowledge.

Oh look, another "philosophy" thread that ends up talking about economics, politics, sociology, anthropology, linguistics, and bad metaphysics. Just about everything other than...philosophy.

People should read more epistemology. People should read way more epistemology.

>>16922595
>>16922618
god why are both extremes so fucking cringe holy shit, stop saying "this generation will change everything" "we're different" from previous generations"

>>16923035
somebody's mad they got rejected from a target business school