/lit/ - Literature

exception that proves the rule

>>16911345
Wallace Stevens was a poet who was also a lawyer and not the other way round

>>16911345
Who's the girl? And, I believe Peterson means when such a profession is their life, their career. Eliot was a banker by trade, but a poet and a man of words by passion. Similarly, Socrates was a stoneworker by trade, but a philosopher by passion.

>>16911345
Poor girl, sucks to have Fetal Alcohol Syndrome.

>>16911345
Nah, those industries have both changed enormously since the dudes you're referring to, and companies are much more into psychologically profiling applicants for a fit.

>>16911393
I think she's just a hapa.

>>16911395
What do you mean?

Does this help or hinder the aspiring artist?

>>16911345
Typical JP pilpul: "well I didn't say THAT, I said....."
You can make that case for literally every industry because the movie and music industry as a whole sure doesn't create out of thin air, they merely regurgitate the profitable formulas which isn't a signal of creativity - much like the figures you brought up, the really creative ones are exceptions, which is even more shameful when you acknowledge that people think of musicians and artists as creative.

>>16911369
>>16911393
The girl's name is Aya Shalkar, she is half Russian half Kazakh or something, very pretty and lots of booba material to find of her online.

>>16911345
>Jordan Peterson claims that people who work in certain industries aren't creative, or have a very limited creative capacity. He gives the examples of lawyers and bankers.
*on average. He's just referencing how personality affects an individual's proclivities. There are extraverted math/comp sci people, but the large majority score low in extraversion.

>Isn’t that just a huge cope though?
Most of JPs work is

That sounds retarded

>>16911345

Jordan Peterson is a compulsive liar, intellectual charlatan, and drug addict.

Read Jordanetics.

>>16911345
>Jordan Peterson claims
>Jordan Peterson
There's your problem

>>16911419
What Peterson claims about bankers now can hardly be refuted by examples of bankers from a century ago.

>>16911345
bankers and lawyers now almost exclusively belong to a certain demographic. you know which one.

>>16911540
almost looks good but the cover is so ugly im not going to pick it up

1. two exceptions do not break a rule
2. stop listening to jordan peterson

Most people arent creative or have a very limited creative capacity. Id say that over 90% of psychologists fall under that.

>>16911345
Just because you're a literalist with every word spoken doesn't make you a scholar.

>>16911345
Yes, it is. Peterson is a systematizer and as such is desperate to put everything into neat little boxes so that he can systematize them.

>>16911345

>>16911345
Cicero also

something something peterson good
every time you make a peterson post i get to shill
>>16911345
i suspect Peterson's argument that lawyers are uncreative stems from his personality research
he generally poses trait conscientiousness as being inimical to creativity (openness). lawyers might be a generally conscientious population
if we presume he's boiling statistics down there's sure to be outliers, though

>>16911428
big booba?

>>16911345
>look there are outliers to this statistical claim
If you want to play this game then from my own personal experience lawyers and bankers are some of the most grey and shallow people I’ve ever met. They may be hard workers but their life seems to be fully characterized by the pursuit of more money when they don’t even need it.

>>16911345
JP is an academic who's never worked in an office. The problem with office jobs is that, especially as a junior, you have to do admin work fit for a monkey. When you get your hands on some managerial and/or executive power you really have to be smart and think on your feet at all times, that entailing that you'll have to come up with creative solutions.

>>16911365
No, he wasn't. He was a lawyer who coped by writing poetry. He was a top-tier executive, far from the regular 9-5. Stevens poetry is top-tier because he had a gift for it, but most of his life was spent at the office.

>>16911395
Can confirm this, I've been rejected by a few law firms for being too creative. They didn't phrase like that, they just said that I wouldn't be happy there. The second time it happened, I pressed on and asked that roastie from HR what's the real reason and she said: "Nobody here has time to read that pretentious crap you talked about in the interview". That pretentious crap was Cormac McCarthy. In a way, they did me a favor.

>>16913169
>When you get your hands on some managerial and/or executive power you really have to be smart and think on your feet at all times, that entailing that you'll have to come up with creative solutions.
Am being groomed to run a million dollar company, can confirm.
People like playing games as well, I’ve never liked it. There’s always drama and other high school tier bullshit, even with men.

>>16913201
Cool, do you have a job opening for me, boss man?

>tfw no kazakh/steppe wife

>>16913169
>"Nobody here has time to read that pretentious crap you talked about in the interview". That pretentious crap was Cormac McCarthy.

kek

>people with shit jobs don't have the energy to be creative
What a groundbreaking idea

He is talking about averages. "Like, lawyers are on average less open-minded and more conscientious than the average kindergarten teacher. "

In what way is this concept confusing to you

>>16911345
William Carlos Williams was a rural family medicine doctor
Melville did some banking or clerkship at some point?
And of course David foster Wallace worked at the IRS one legendary summer

>>16911345
Not a JP fan, but you are probly misinterpreting him. The claim is more likely "Jordan Peterson claims that people who work in certain industries tend not to be very creative". Its easy to come up with anecdotes against deterministic statements.

>>16912829
Big booba yes

>>16913745
>32:50

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KxGPe1jD-qY

>>16911345
Doesn't this apply to like 99% of all jobs? creativity must have some influence on what job you decide to do, big fucking surprise, but how many jobs are there really outside of being some type of artist that require more creativity than being a lawyer?

>>16911400
thats worse

>>16911353
You misunderstood that phrase. The word "prove" in this context means "test". These are indeed exceptions that test the rule, but I doubt you meant that because otherwise your post was tautological.

>>16911369
He was a stoneworker? Didnt plato say that a man should not do more than 1 thing in the republic?

>>16911345
>For example, T.S. Elliot was a banker, Wallace Stevens was a lawyer, and I can think of some other examples.


Lol so you can think of 5 people out of all the bankers and lawyers in history?

Most people aren’t creative, they go home and watch tv.

I'm a banker and I write a lot. It's not a creative field, but it doesn't mean the people in it aren't creative. We're just in it for the money. Creativity is something that is usually separate from work.

>>16911581
All bankers are Indian.

>>16913986
Plato was a retard.

>>16911345
As someone in the legal field, that sounds pretty stupid to me. There are such a wide variety of jobs as a lawyer that generalizing is pretty useless. A lawyer working 100 hours a week at a private firm probably isn't going to be creative, but a lawyer working a normal 40 hours for the government or some firm in a small town probably has plenty of time for creative endeavors. The kind of work required for the job also varies wildly between insanely creative research/approaches and mindnumbingly filling out and filing thousands of forms.

As always with JP, he's a smart guy, but I question how much he actually knows outside of his field (there's nothing wrong with that, but people need to stop treating him as the next messiah when he's just a competent psychologist)

>>16911345
I would hold her hand if you know what I mean.

>>16911345
there are exceptions but he is by and large right

>>16911345
Spinoza, lense grinder
My pops was also a lawyer by trade but is a passionate painter and environmentalist, especially in retirement.
I also don't really understand the utility of making such a generalization in the first place.

>>16911345
Any sensible person would tell you that commitment to any desensitized occupation, or profession, drains energy, and stifles artistical creativity, especially if that creative energy is perversely wasted on insidiousness, and perfidy, resulting in corruption.

>>16911345
>Isn't that just a huge cope though?
Yes, it absolutely is.

>>16911581
kek, that's how I know you never attended a prestigious business school. Most target business schools are all asian americans and new england whites snaking each other trying to get front office positions. Jews are in real estate.

>>16915963
>schools
you fucking retard. who OWNS the banks??? im not talking about asian shabbos goyim or pajeets who have corruption money to get in the schools

I think he's right. Clinical psychologist are all charlatans.

>>16915989
>burger view of the world
holy shit what a midwit, the banks that were founded in the u.s., outside of the US most banks are owned by Asians.

>>16912885
Accurate

>>16913169
>Nobody here has time to read that pretentious crap you talked about in the interview". That pretentious craps name? Albert Einstein.

>>16911991
unironically the only based thing in this thread

>>16911345
Personality and business/jobs is a well researched subject in psychology. The statics show that people lean towards jobs that fit their personality niche.
This shit has been ingrained in humans since the dawn of time, everyone is somewhat different and everyone fills a niche, some men hunters, some fishermen, some berry pickers, ect. Society's with only creative (or uncreative) people don't exist for a reason.

>>16911345
Please show/tell me where he said that?

Not calling you a liar, I'm just curious and looking for more context.

>>16911345
>Retardson claims
Go feed your lobsters and clean your gf's penis, bucko

>>16914515
>The kind of work required for the job also varies wildly between insanely creative research/approaches and mindnumbingly filling out and filing thousands of forms.
This is what I thought of. Some of my best friends are lawyers and there is a huge variety of work between them. I'd never be so quick to call their job uncreative, especially when it comes to developing creative approaches or interpretations of precedent. That being said, I don't think I could draw a direct comparison between that sort of analytical creativity and traditional creative endeavors like writing, painting or music.

In fact, I'm not sure how much of a lawyer's creativity really transfers to skills outside of the occupational since it's such a nuanced field couched in it's own formalities and boundaries. I just have a hard time viewing a creative lawyer as the same thing as a creative (traditional) artist, not that either form of creativity is more or less valid than the other.

>>16911345
>Jordan Peterson
Refuted by his own daughter

>>16913954
Exceptions don't test rules, they affirm them. You misunderstood the term "rule."

>>16911540
>Jordan Peterson is a compulsive liar, intellectual charlatan, and drug addict.
Yeah this its sad that people look up to him solely because he has a degree.

>>16911481
>Isn’t that just a huge cope though?
>Most of JPs work is
All of philosophy is coping with life

>>16911345
Peterson is delusional and really uneducated ..Fermat one of the greatest mathematicians was a lawyer..Einstein was working in an office while he was doing physics and i can keep going on here. A lot of people from the past were on these posts and still do amazing thinks due to the fact tthat they were working on offices and doing science part time

>>16913986
Greece was not The republic (TM) tho.

>>16911345
>Listening to Juden Peterstein
Not gonna make it

>>16913169
>JP is an academic who's never worked in an office
academia is all of the normal office bullshit with extra bullshit added as a bonus. guaranteed JP has sat through more meetings about reducing the number of meetings than you

>>16913897
t. autist with fetal alcohol syndrome

>>16911345
Peterson speaks in really broad categories and seems to religiously believe that psychoanalysis can diagnose and explain all human traits.

He's okay but if you're taking his word beyond anything other than basically academic entertainment you might just be fucked