/lit/ - Literature

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>>16895729
the idea of simply ceasing to exist is more terrifying to me than existing in some kind of eternal torture chamber.

>>16895969
To me the eternal torture chamber is more terrifying.

>>16895729
>creation ex nihilo
>now you guys are gonna believe in existence going to non-existence too?
Christians are hellbent on being philosophically illiterate.

Once you die you cease to exist. No one goes to Heaven or Hell upon death according to the Bible. In the last days some will be resurrected to be judged.
I.E the concept of an immortal disembodied spirit soul does not exist in Judaism and Christianity.

>>16896012
All will be resurrected and judged.

>>16895992
I sense you don't fully grasp what is meant when Christians talk about "God."

Oh so the bible straight up tells you to not take ititeral? How did it get so skewed?

>>16896012
>In the last days some will be resurrected to be judged
OP here

and the point of hell, as i understand from what i read, is that the sinful and destined to "go to hell" simply dont get resurrected and just get annihlated?
>>16896035
the problem is that some things get lost in translation

>>16895729
Correct. “Hell” in the book of Matthew was originally Gehenna, which was an actual place where bodies had been burnt. Jesus uses the image as such to give a dramatic depiction of death and annihilation. “Eternal” is also originally “age-lasting” as well. I mean, when you throw something into a fire, does it stay there forever or is it burnt up and destroyed forever?

>>16896026
I think you can make a good case based on the OT that pagans/non believers who didn't explicitly reject God due to ignorance + who followed their conscience (God given) simply die like animals.

>>16896012
>>16896026
In the book of revelations it actually specifies that Satan and his angels are the only ones being tortured forever, the ones judged at the white throne will either enter the kingdom or be cast into “the lake of fire” to experience “the second death”. That is clear cut annihilation

The earliest Christians, being Jewish converts who saw Jesus as the Messiah and thus did not conceive of any difference between Judaism and Christianity, saw the final judgement as resulting in a literal physical bodily resurrection, followed by literal physical bodily immortality (and endless pleasure, alongside being waited on by thousands of gentile slaves). This is why Christians were buried whole, and vehemently opposed cremation. The thought was that cremation would prevent God from resurrecting the body, and therefore judging you. You also wanted to have all of your parts together, because otherwise you'd run the risk of being resurrected without an arm or some such, and God couldn't give you a new one. Why God couldn't make you a new body, or at least limbs, is uncertain, but we're also talking about people who were baffled by the idea of Pagan Gods having different eye colors and wearing different clothes.

To that end, all good Christians must prevent cremation whenever possible. This, alongside the Christian practice of destroying the graves of non-Christians, resulted in Christians in the Roman Empire being banned from graveyards. Of course, when Constantine came along, that changed and cremation was made illegal. There's still Christian opposition to cremation to this day.

I'm not 100% when "literal physical resurrection" gets replaced with "a transcendent state", but it's somewhere between Augustine and Aquinas.

>>16896259
Jesus in Matthew specifically points out that if a hand or an eye are a cause of sin, it would be preferable for you to cut off the limb and cast out your eye, because it is better to ''go through life without a part of your body, than suffer outside the kingdom of god''
So I don't know why such superstitions persisted so strongly
God is the ultimate good, he is omnipotent and eternal. Did commoners have so much trouble imagining the terrific essence of a being that is god, that they think missing a limb would stop him from judging them?

>>16895969
How in the fuck?

>>16895983
Yes. I'd prefer nonexistence by a long shot. I'm 99% sure that's what there actually is anyways but I'm not worried at all about it. In some ways I look forward to the eternal dreamless sleep.

>>16895729

Let's see what Jesus himself said about Hell.

19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:

20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,

21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.

22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;

23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.

26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.

27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:

28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.

29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.

30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.

31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

>>16895729

This entire thread and all of the lame ass Christian wannabes blown the fuck out by Jesus Christ.

No one taught about Hell besides Isaiah and Jesus. Jesus made hell explicitly clear. Isaiah spoke only in prophetic terms about the vineyard. Christ straight up told us what Hell was and who it was for.

>>16896812

Also the Apostle John in Revelations.

>>16896012
The body is resurrected at the General Judgement, brainlet. There are no souls running about in the afterlife.

>>16896789
/thread

>>16895969
This seems like shit people say without considering what it actually means whatsoever.

>>16896789
So crackheads are going to heaven?

>>16896789
>>16896812
There was a certain rich man - Many have supposed that our Lord here refers to a "real history," and gives an account of some man who had lived in this manner; but of this there is no evidence. The probability is that this narrative is to be considered as a parable, referring not to any particular case which "had" actually happened, but teaching that such cases "might" happen. The "design" of the narrative is to be collected from the previous conversation. He had taught the danger of the love of money Luke 16:1-2; the deceitful and treacherous nature of riches Luke 16:9-11; that what was in high esteem on earth was hateful to God Luke 16:15; that people who did not use their property aright could not be received into heaven Luke 16:11-12; that they ought to listen to Moses and the prophets Luke 16:16-17; and that it was the duty of people to show kindness to the poor. The design of the parable was to impress all these truths more vividly on the mind, and to show the Pharisees that, with all their boasted righteousness and their external correctness of character, they might be lost.

https://biblehub.com/commentaries/luke/16-19.htm

>>16895729
>so whats hell about
Eternal damnation

>>16895969
If you didn't exist, you wouldn't be around to care. it's the much better option by FAR

>>16897208
General judgment is the Christian theological concept of a judgment of the dead. When the individual dies, general judgment holds that the person's final dispensation will await the general judgment of the dead at the end of the world, rather than be judged immediately. It is generally contrasted with a particular judgment right after death. It is related closely to Judgment Day and often is just another phrase for the Last Judgment or Final Judgement.

Kikes don’t even believe in hell. It’s all a metaphor. Actually most Jews don’t even believe in God. The bible is not a sacred scripture, it is an instruction manual for world domination

i’m probably gonna start being a regular face around here if i keep butting into these threads with “as someone raised adventist...”

this is adventist teaching. if you’re interested, our end of days prophecy sort of goes like this:

at some point, disasters and wars will get so bad that the united states (rev 13 beast) will establish a law that forces everyone to go to church on sunday. it sounds crazy now but the senate almost passed it in the 19th century. this will lead the country into relative peace for everyone except adventists, who are hunted and executed by police. this gets worse and worse until Jesus returns and all the non adventists run to the hills and cry out for rocks to crush them. then the adventists and previously saved dead people live in heaven for 1,000 years. here they look at the book of life and judge God’s decisions on every soul, whether He was right or wrong to damn them. after we find God just, He’ll resurrect the damned. at this point, satan and the demons are unleashed, and they’ll try to storm heaven or something. but as they’re about to reach the city (why are they outside the city? what’s out there?) God shows them all of their sins. when they see their sins, all damned people bend their knees and say “God is just” and then they burn up. after that God sends the saved to the new earth. oh and all of this is done with physical bodies, no souls.

so yeah, when adventist try to tell you their prophetess didn’t have any predictions, they’re either misinformed or lying to you.

>>16897320
Biblically speaking from a christian standpoint the actual jews would have converted to Christianity. The difference between a Christian "Jew" and a Christianity Gentile would be those Jews are descendants of Abraham.

>>16896769
>he thinks the ride ever ends

bump

>>16895729
>just a metaphor for exterminating your very soul, legacy and remembrance
Nonsense. According to the Bhagavad Gita, the self is eternal, unborn, and undying. You and I, our true selves, did not come into being, do not come into being, and will not ever go out of being. Why read silly hebrew nonsense when you can read authentic and ancient religious traditions which don't put a "chosen race" of inbred bronze age goat herders as the center of the universe?

>>16895729
die and see for yourself. deaf people ask what is music like. degenerates, apparently.

>>16895729
This has plenty of references to both the bible and the catechism. I think it's what you're looking for.
https://www.catholic.com/magazine/online-edition/what-is-hell

>>16895729
Most of our ideas of hell come from Dantes Inferno. Hell is only mentioned a couple of times in the Bible and there isn't any real concrete details on it.

>>16895969
You already didnt existed so whats to fear about?

>>16896052
>“Eternal” is also originally “age-lasting” as well. I mean, when you throw something into a fire, does it stay there forever or is it burnt up and destroyed forever?

Well to try to understand what is meant and why it's been translated the way it has, it would probably be helpful to see what the connotations of the words used for it in pertinent historical languages are. Could probably also try "age-perduring/perduring age" if wanting to preserve some implication of the common interpretations while not being as absolute.

αἰών (aiṓn) (noun)
("age, aeon, epoch, lifetime, long space of time, the current world, eternity"), cognate with Latin aevum, from Proto-Indo-European *h2eyu- which is also the source of Latin aevum and aetas.

αἰώνῐος (aiṓnios) (adjective)
("long-lasting, lasting for an age, perpetual, eternal, everlasting").
The West Saxon Gospels use Old English ēċe ("perpetual, eternal, everlasting, evermore"), from Proto-Germanic *aiwukiz (“eternal”), from *aiwaz, from Proto-Indo-European *h2eyu-.

עוֹלָם (ʿolām) (noun)
("world, ever, eternity"), cognate with Aramaic (ʿālam) and Arabic عَالَم (ʿālam). Translated with aiṓn and aiṓnios in Greek.

forever (adverb)
From the preposition "for" + ever, from Old English ǣfre, originally a phrase whose first element is almost certainly from Old English ā (“ever, always”) which is from Proto-Germanic *aiwaz- which is from Proto-Indo-European *h2eyu- which is also the source of Greek αἰών and Latin aevum and aetas, + in (“in”) + an element possibly from feorh (“life, existence”).
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/ever#English

"Forever" is used to translate Greek τὸν αἰῶνα (tòn aiôna) and Hebrew לְעוֹלָם (l'ʿolām), which is from the Semitic preposition לְ־ (l'-, “to, for”) + עוֹלָם (ʿolām), לְעָלַם (l'ʿālam) in Aramaic, all meaning "to the age". The West Saxon Gospels used "on ecnesse" ("forever, for eternity"), from on + ēcnes, from ēċe + -nes.

saeculum (noun)
("age, century, world")

age (noun)
From an Anglo-Norman term whose supposed ultimate source is Latin aetas. Displaced native Middle English elde (“age”) (modern eld; from Old English ieldu, eldo, ieldo (“age”)).

world (noun)
From Old English weorold, woruld, worold, equivalent to wer (“man”) + eld (“age”), from Proto-Germanic *weraldiz (“lifetime, human existence, world”, literally “age/era of man”).

eternity (noun)
From Latin aeternitas, from aeternus (“eternal”) + -tās, which is a contraction of aeviternus which is from aevitās, the archaic form of aetas, compounds of aevum + -tās.

Nobody gonna mention that the concept of the afterlife was introduced to the Jews through Zoroastrianism?

>>16897510
Interesting viewpoint. i like to think that even when you die, there are 8 billions people out there left, who are also experiencing the life somehow similar to yours, also being "trapped" in the same body for a lifetime. You will be dead at some point, but there will be so many other conscious people left that it’s hard to see this as a kind of reincarnation.

>>16895969
"When it was evening, he reclined at table with the twelve.[b] 21 And as they were eating, he said, “Truly, I say to you, one of you will betray me.” 22 And they were very sorrowful and began to say to him one after another, “Is it I, Lord?” 23 He answered, “He who has dipped his hand in the dish with me will betray me. 24 The Son of Man goes as it is written of him, but woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! It would have been better for that man if he had not been born.” 25 Judas, who would betray him, answered, “Is it I, Rabbi?” He said to him, “You have said so.” - Matthew 26

It is better to not exist than to perish in hell.

>>16895992
Aristotle btfo'd parmenides.

>>16897426
This is schizo even by christcuck standards

>>16895729
The Hell as burning torment in a river of fire likely originates from Plato's Gorgias.

I really don't know which it is, but this would fit what people say of near-death experiences: believers see what they believe, non-believers see nothing