/lit/ - Literature

>>16891133
Id be sceptical of anyone who translates 人間資格 as a shameful life

>>16891144
i actually very much prefer this title anon

>>16891146
It demystifies it into something much less interesting than the original title also while meaning less.

>>16891160
i regret making this thread. go fuck yourself anon

>>16891168
Based af

>>16891168
Just my opinion. Is it good enough to buy if you have already read the original?

i'd like to see comparisons between both translations. i think the title is worse though, much worse.

>>16891970
fair enough. i'm enjoying it so far and think it's a better, leaner translation, and am appreciating rereading it, so i'd say yes. i just started it though but i plan to read through it tonight

>>16892028
i would too but i'm too lazy to either take screenshots or type out passages for comparison, maybe there are some online though. i prefer the simplicity of this translation, it's less melodramatic and more straightforward. this title resonates with me on a personal level much more. i find the title "no longer human" kind of a clichéd, ambiguous, and overdramatic

>>16891144
Based, they just gave up on translating the title and just used a bit of the first line of the notebooks. I don't know why they don't just call it Human Disqualification.

>>16891144
You got the third kanji wrong, though.

>>16892065
I bet you don't even read Japanese. How can you comment on the quality of a translation? It resonates with you. Give me a break. Are you a woman?

Reminder that new translations are generally simpler and less accurate to appeal to falling standards of literacy and shorter attention spans

>>16892067
Person Disqualification by Osamu Dazai

>>16891133
The new title is TERRIBLE and the translator should be sodomized and then shot in the head. So bad and generic, Jesus fucking Christ. Why does everything suck now, why does every translator suck. I want to rape and kill them all.

>>16892131
t. doesn't know how to read Japanese

The Spanish translation is similar to the literal translation Unworthy/Disqualified from being human. No Longer Human is okay.
>>16892065
>this title resonates with me on a personal level much more.
It's the title of the book. Its content should resonate with you, you dumbass.
>>16892131
Correct.

>>16892111
If you ask anyone who knows Japanese, they wouldn't say the original translation was all that good

>>16892111
That would probably be closer to the Japanese prose.

>>16892102
>shaming me for a title containing the word shameful
kill yourself you piece of shit

>>16892241
>It's the title of the book. Its content should resonate with you, you dumbass.
>implying the content doesn't
get fucked up the ass by a dog you cocksucking faggot who's into bestiality

>>16892102
>shaming me for liking a title containing the word shameful
kill yourself you fucking piece of shit

is this a good book for depressed people that are having trouble relating to people more than they do on better days?

>>16892407
i say so. i'd recommend the new translation too, as it's superior. don't listen to the cocksucking trolls shitting up this thread

>>16892368
I didn't even mention the title, you spastic. Go off

>>16891133
Cover sucks, title sucks; I'll take the Keene translation thanks.

>>16892424
you're a fucking worthless, subhuman piece of shit that doesn't even deserve to live, you fucking mentally retarded, illiterate, cocksucking retard.

>>16892424
i hope you get raped and killed you little faggot-ass bitch. you don't even deserve to live. you're a worthless piece of shit. you're subhuman. i hope you die an agonizing death. you're nothing.

>>16892424
retard

this was such a boring read how do people like it? the only good part was when he talked about praying

>>16893177
/lit/ loves anything about le depressed loser man moping around

>>16892362
you should work on your insults, anon. less is more, too much words and the insult loses its gravitas

>>16893222
nice trips, personally i find the insult i used quite amusing. still seething over this thread though desu.
https://www.ganriki.org/article/a-shameful-life/
here is an article comparing translations. personally i think this translation is superior, and the prefer the cover and the title, too. i don't understand why 4chan has to shit on anything kino

>>16893282
>kino
This is the literature board. Please consider suicide.

>>16893409
kino can be used to describe anything of high calibre, brainlet. it's not specifically just for film anymore

>>16893432
Only newfags do that and you're clearly a newfag. And a retarded one, who happens to be a tourist, so you don't get to call anyone a brainlet, you immature piece of shit.

>>16893438
it's like you don't even realize that you're nothing

>>16892254
If you ask anyone who knows Japanese they would tell you you can't translate the language

>>16893451
It's like you're an insecure faggot lashing out, who has to resort to imported expressions that mean shit in a literature board, a fucking buzzword to express what makes this book or this translation so good, resonate with you, etc.
Of course you act this way. You know you're a worthless faggot, and I know I won't let your sort bring over the faggotry and low IQ ways of low IQ boards.

>>16893282
Why are you so upset over this?

>>16893494
based

>>16893494
you're too much a low IQ brainlet pleb to read the new translation. you're fucking stupid. insult me all you want but the fact of the matter is you're nothing but a troll who refuses to discuss literature and instead resorts to insults. i think that you resent me for having better taste than you. any time someone has better taste or has read something that someone else hasn't they're automatically a faggot and all these negative, untrue things. i don't know how to explain to you how stupid you are. i won't be a territorial animal like you people and tell you to "fuck off," as though i think i fucking own 4chan, but i will tell you to politely kill yourself, as you're a worthless piece of subhuman shit. you're already nothing, so why not just die?

>>16893503
because these jackasses haven't even read of, probably let alone heard of the new translation, i like it better, and i don't need to be insulted for, what, reading a new translation? i just hate stupidity and stupid people, anon. none of these stupid assholes ITT could possibly relate to dazai and i suspect they're in fact more-or-less illiterate.

>>16891133
I've read both and the new translation is worse. He has a way of taking every moment of significance and translating it in such a way that it doesn't seem important or misrepresents what is happening. For example, When Yozo is clowning around at school and Takeichi calls him out, in Keene's translation he says, "You did it on purpose," which notes that he has seen through Yozo's act. In Gibeau's translation he says, "Show off," which completely misses the point. It sounds like he didn't see through Yozo but it is just griping about him getting attention. Yozo's ensuing terror makes no sense. It also fails on an aesthetic level. At one point Yozo sees a group of birds flying by in the shape 女 (woman). Keene translates this as
>Seagulls were flying by in a line which somehow suggested the curve of a woman's body.
while Gibeau translates it as
>A line of seagulls seemed to form the Chinese character for "woman" as they flew past.
This is for one meaningless if you do not know what 女 is, but it also sounds ridiculous and clunky in English. He insists on keeping the kanji reference that the reader will likely not understand, but refuses to use the word "kanji" and opts for "Chinese character," which is laughable. Keene's version renders it in a way that is directly comprehensible in English without losing any of its meaning.

>>16893558
You might be too sensitive for this site sweetheart

>>16893560
>Yozo's ensuing terror makes no sense
yeah because you're a fucking normie
>It also fails on an aesthetic level
you have no appreciation of aesthetics
> Keene's version renders it in a way that is directly comprehensible in English without losing any of its meaning.
gibeau's translation is beautiful, whereas keen's is vulgar.
>in Keene's translation he says, "You did it on purpose," which notes that he has seen through Yozo's act. In Gibeau's translation he says, "Show off," which completely misses the point.
i don't see how you don't see the superiority of gibeau's translation here

>>16893560
Also another ridiculous aspect of the new translation is that he notes in his afterword that he decided not to include any literary references and such things that the reader would not understand, as he did not want to resort to explanatory footnotes in the book. So what is the purpose of his translation? Keene's version is already heavily "localized" to the point that it reads like a natural English text, and Gibeau's adds nothing that we would not previously have had access to, but localizes in an even more clunky manner (e.g. "Chinese character").

>>16893564
i'm too good for this site. i don't need to get trolled by fucking morons for, what, reading something they haven't read? playing something they haven't played? listening to something they haven't listened to? watching something they haven't watched? they resent anything high, being too low and base. anything high is viewed with resentment. i'm too good for this fucking site and i don't know why i come on here. i don't need this shit when i'm just trying to discuss literature. how the fuck does it always devolve to identity politics? this is a fucking anonymous website. people behaving like subhuman animals even online. it's absolutely despicable

>>16893565
>yeah because you're a fucking normie
If you want to have an adult discussion about the merits of the translation I'm going to have to have to ask you to act like it. I took the trouble to actually find examples, and this is the level of response you have. Let the reader judge for themselves.

>>16893576
And as soon as someone actually posts a real comparison you start insulting them. Might be time to fuck off, buddy.

>>16893578
sorry, i'm just angry at all the trolls ITT. personally i prefer the new translation. ultimately it's a matter of taste.

>>16893582
shove a knife up your ass you should-be abortion. i hope you get hit by a fucking car. you don't fucking deserve to fucking live. you're a fucking worthless piece of subhuman shit and i hope you die an agonizing death. you're a fucking subhuman animal. you're nothing. you're shit. you're scum. you're a fucking retarded faggot moron. you're garbage. you're trash.

>>16893592
Obviously this is some kind of larp but I don’t know if that makes me less or more worried about your mental state.

>>16893565
>gibeau's translation is beautiful, whereas keen's is vulgar.
I am inclined to accuse you of not having read Keene's translation, as he writes in a higher linguistic register which I cannot reasonably see being accused of vulgarity.
>i don't see how you don't see the superiority of gibeau's translation here
What is Yozo doing? Is he just being a show off? Or if he consciously wearing the mask of a clown to appear that he is a normal person? His entire persona is an affectation. So what if he "shows off"? An actual clown "shows off." It means nothing.

>>16893598
i'm angry as fuck. i don't know which anon you are but fuck this website.

>>16893603
Then leave

>>16893602
>I am inclined to accuse you of not having read Keene's translation, as he writes in a higher linguistic register which I cannot reasonably see being accused of vulgarity.
i accuse you of not having read gibeau's translation. how do you not see the vulgarity of keene's? how says the crows "suggested the curve of a woman’s body". i don't think he writes in a higher linguistic register, i think he uses flowery, unfitting words.
>What is Yozo doing? Is he just being a show off? Or if he consciously wearing the mask of a clown to appear that he is a normal person? His entire persona is an affectation. So what if he "shows off"? An actual clown "shows off." It means nothing.
both are kind of dialect but i think "show off" is better in that it is less child-like and more believable. show off feels more natural and believable and less appealing to pathos to me.

>>16893608
i will

>>16891133
shit thread, op.

>>16893624
it's too late to fucking delete it now anon.

>>16893613
>how do you not see the vulgarity of keene's? how says the crows "suggested the curve of a woman’s body".
女 suggests the curve of a woman's body, as it is a pictogram of a woman. Compare 母 (mother) which is a pictogram of breasts.
>show off feels ... less appealing to pathos to me.
Given that the words are supposed to induce a state of existential terror in Yozo I can't see why you would prefer that they be "less appealing to pathos."

This one is shorter and sounds much less poetic imo, kinda shit. The Keene translation is a classic tho

>>16893636
>女 suggests the curve of a woman's body, as it is a pictogram of a woman. Compare 母 (mother) which is a pictogram of breasts.
interesting, thanks anon i didn't know that.
>Given that the words are supposed to induce a state of existential terror in Yozo I can't see why you would prefer that they be "less appealing to pathos."
i mean that "you did that on purpose" sounds more childlike, both utilize dialect but the feeling of pathos i get from it is directed towards takeichi, not yozo. "show off" is more derisive and dismissive and makes one appreciate yozo's state of existential terror much more, for me at least, having his whole act so flagrantly dismissed. i could go more into detail about their relationship based off this but naturally people would just insult and judge and ridicule each and everything thing i fucking say on this stupid piece of shit website

>>16893742
>sounds much less poetic imo
oddly gibeau's translation sounds much more poetic to me. i agree that the keene translation is a classic, but maybe one day this translation will be considered a classic too

>>16893766
The point isn't that his act is dismissed, the point is that it was recognized as an act. There's nothing in the text that shows that he is concerned with some kind of pride in whether people would be dismissive of it. He's concerned about people knowing that it's an act at all. He doesn't want anyone to think that he isn't normal. You misunderstood the point of what is happening as well. Also the guy calling him out on it is a simpleton, so if you think Keene's translation sounds more childlike then that is a good thing. He's not trying to insult Yozo, he just happened to notice.

>>16893603
Imagine being angry on a basket weaving forum

>>16893792
his act is dismissed as an act. you misinterpreted what i was saying. i didn't misunderstand the glaringly obvious fucking point you felt the fucking need to point the fuck out, anon. holy shit, you try and have somewhat of a discussion but you fucking stupid shit-eating assholes are incapable of even that, all you're capable of is arguing about nothing on this stupid bullshit website.
you're all fucking plebs, the gibeau translation is superior, fuck everyone

>>16892131
It's better. The old one wasn't great and forced the book into some Western fellating of post ww2 Japan as a depressive hellhole.

>>16893835
i hate stupid people anon. i hate stupidity.

i swear, next to none of you anons have any understanding of dazai, as you are exactly the human beings he can't understand and lives in terror of

>>16893851
There's nothing about it being "dismissed," it's about it being recognized as an act at all. You are clueless.

>>16893878
dismissed as in not believed in, anon. dismissed as an act. his act was dismissed. are you fucking ESL? what is there not to understand? or you're so fucking stupid that you think you understand this book and that i don't, or that you fucking wrote this book and i don't understand the fucking glaringly obvious bullshit you're so fucking stupid you felt the need to point out, you're so fucking stupid you actually think other people don't understand that very basic plot point? seriously anon, shoot yourself in the head, since you're fucking braindead anyway. of course you prefer the original translation, since you can't think for yourself and cling to the particular words of others. you're an illiterate moron and an idiot.

>>16893878
to not recognize is to dismiss, anon. are you mentally fucking retarded?

>>16893897
Yes I think that I understood the book and that you didn't, probably because you read a bad translation.
>>16893911
Those words are not synonyms.

>>16893917
>Yes I think that I understood the book and that you didn't, probably because you read a bad translation.
you're stupid. i'm not trolling, but you're stupid. you know why? because, since you identify with this book, you're trying to compete over it, like you "really" understand it and i don't, simply because you're stupid and identify with it. read difference and repetition sometime you stupid cunt
>>16893917
the sense in which i am using it amounts to the same thing, the meaning is the same. you prefer the original translation because you're stupid and evil by clinging to identity and particularities. you don't grasp the meaning of the text or of language as such. by you i am addressing anonymous itself, and by extension the heideggerian They. i am not attacking you personally

i wish i could delete this fucking thread

A profoundly mediocre book on every level. It's like Notes of Underground, but minus anything that made that book enjoyable.

>>16894067
honestly most of the best japanese literature is just second-rate dostoevsky or second-rate kafka, who is arguably also a second-rate dostoevsky

God I wish I could work up the motivation to learn Japanese

>>16894233
this, i took japanese in high school, also once i had a japanese gf and tried to start learning japanese again, but i just don't have the motivation

>>16894085
but dosto is himself a second-rate French novelist....

>>16894281
i-is he? w-who was he influenced b-b-by?

>>16894281
Tell us which French novelist RIGHT NOW

>>16892407
No, not really. I couldn't relate to him when I was depressed. I think the cultural differences (Europe-Japan) are too big.
There is an anime, Aoi Bungaku Series, which I watched a few years later and it was a better experience.

Dazai would've preferred the Keene translation

>>16891144
>>16892077
True, should have double checked. 人間失格

>>16892368
NOOOO DONT SHAME MEEEE

OP is one of the most psychotic people I've ever seen post on this website. He probably kills children.

>>16894814
Pretty much, and he must be so poorly read no wonder he acts this absurdly over trivial shit.

>>16895976
probably just forgot his meds going to gramma’s for thanksgiving

The French translation "La déchéance d'un homme" is closer to "The forfeiture of a man".
What do you think of it Jap-speaking anons ?